Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 16 Feb 2009 12:31

rakall and KP, any update on astra and/or barak-2 ??

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby krishnan » 16 Feb 2009 12:35

I think if they order more price will come down.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 16 Feb 2009 12:58

Rahul M wrote:rakall and KP, any update on astra and/or barak-2 ??


Nope.. I went to the DRDL stall.. but this time they hardly had anything on display.. and they had hardly anybody to talk to..

Israeli's were very reluctant to talk.. There was a 1:1 model of MRSAM.. but not ready to talk..

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby k prasad » 16 Feb 2009 16:06

rakall wrote:
Rahul M wrote:rakall and KP, any update on astra and/or barak-2 ??


Nope.. I went to the DRDL stall.. but this time they hardly had anything on display.. and they had hardly anybody to talk to..

Israeli's were very reluctant to talk.. There was a 1:1 model of MRSAM.. but not ready to talk..


Same thing here, but got a bit of info on astra - nothing new though. As with Rakall, the Israelis were downright snobbish - no one around the stalls, when you'd talk to someone, he wasn't the guy concerned, the guy concerned would've gone somewhere else, and when he returned, he said that he didn't know.... the same answer for all qns. I wonder why they were so tight-lipped. And this wasn't just with me. I even heard some Service fellas saying the same thing. And this was on the 12th!!

So Barak-2, no update at all.

Anyway, the Astra has only completed propulsion trials, without any seeker or electronics. It now weighs in at 160 kg (was that the same weight as before??).

The seeker and electronics have been lab tested, and are being integrated onto the missile... hopefully, there should be a ground-launched, electronic test trial within a couple of months (2-3 mths I think). The Su-30s will be back in around 6-8 months after integration, so we can probably expect an air launched trial by this december or early next year.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 Feb 2009 01:50

So is there a better understanding of the Brahmos and its last test?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Jay » 17 Feb 2009 02:55

k prasad wrote:Same thing here, but got a bit of info on astra - nothing new though.Anyway, the Astra has only completed propulsion trials, without any seeker or electronics. It now weighs in at 160 kg (was that the same weight as before??).

The seeker and electronics have been lab tested, and are being integrated onto the missile... hopefully, there should be a ground-launched, electronic test trial within a couple of months (2-3 mths I think). The Su-30s will be back in around 6-8 months after integration, so we can probably expect an air launched trial by this december or early next year.


Pretty much the same thing what I heard from DRDO/RCI paanwaala. The seeker from the initial tests will be a modified and improved one from Nag(Tried others for more confirmation, no luck) and the Flight trails will be on SU, on which the team is facing integration problems.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 10:47

Nirbhay

Spoke to a lot of ADE people about Nirbhay – except sketchy words, no concrete info.
Most people say it will have a range between 500-1000km. So you can guess what the range will be.

One person said it will have a 1200kg weight.

While I was talking to a GTRE person discussing about their plans for the small engine - I gathered some details on Nirbhay.. He says the engine is not podded outside at all - the engine will be within the fuselage.. Also he says there may be a small air scoop & "dimpled scoops" on the body.. I dont know how true it could be..

The engine is likely to have 350-400kgf thrust and an sfc of 1kg.kgf/hr.

Based on that I have done some calculations.

1200kg – leave out 300kg for warhead, 75kg for seeker+guidance+electronics, 75kg for engine… That leaves us with 750kgs..
Assume ~250-300kg empty weight (fuselage, wings, wing unfolding mechanism etc).. leaves us with 450-500kgs of fuel.. Take the conservative estimate of 450kgs fuel..

An average thrust of 375kgf will give a flight time of 1.2hrs..
A Mach 0.75 = approx 750kmph flight at 1.2hrs gives a range of 900km..

Without doing a full-fledged sensitivity analysis… take a 10% variation on the range will give a range between 800-1000km.. Thats my interpolation..

The 36MT or 50MT engines we ordered from Russia for Lakshya will invariably be used for first few developmental flights of Nirbhay.. There after , what will it be

- whether Russia allows licensed production for the engine
- we develop a small gas turbine on our own (GTRE has a paper design)
- we will have to see a way of uprating/adopting PTAE-7 or a variant of it (though I don’t know how the size works out if you have to put it inside the fuselage & not podded outside)

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 17 Feb 2009 11:18

rakall saab: You rock.

I think the thrust is too much on higher side to be a valid cruising thrust. Compare that with old Tomahwak.
1200kg – leave out 300kg for warhead, 75kg for seeker+guidance+electronics, 75kg for engine… That leaves us with 750kgs..
Assume ~250-300kg empty weight (fuselage, wings, wing unfolding mechanism etc).. leaves us with 450-500kgs of fuel.. Take the conservative estimate of 450kgs fuel..

Given the launch wt of 1200 Kg, the craft will have Lift to Drag Ratio of at least 10 (conservative estimate for a sub-sonic cruise missile) at cruising speed of Mach 0.75 (~900Km/Hr). Thus cruise thrust requirement is just 120 Kg (IIRC it is in same ball park as Tomahwak). Given that average craft weight will weigh lesser by (0.5 times Fuel-Weight) the above is even more conservative.

Assuming engine SFC of 1 Kg/Kg/Hr that means it requires 120 Kg fuel to cruise for 1 Hr ( @ 900 Km/Hr). Now assume whatever fuel capacity and you can see how the missile range pans out. :twisted:

{FYI: typical L/D ratios: Paraglider - 11 ; Concorde in Mach 2 supersonic cruise - 7.1}

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Anantz » 17 Feb 2009 11:37

I remember having a discussion once with a DRDO chap, he told me that the real issue with the Nirbhay design was in getting a data link that could work for long ranges. Don't remember the exact discussion, but he told me that they were initially having problem with missile guidance system at that kinda ranges. Infact it was the same problem with Nishant too, when it was on the drawing board. Another challenge was Navigation for 1000 + ranges. And testing the missile over land for 1000 + ranges. Ofcourse this was old info, things might have really changed since then..

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 11:43

Arun_S wrote:rakall saab: You rock.

I think the thrust is too much on higher side to be a valid cruising thrust. Compare that with old Tomahwak.
1200kg – leave out 300kg for warhead, 75kg for seeker+guidance+electronics, 75kg for engine… That leaves us with 750kgs..
Assume ~250-300kg empty weight (fuselage, wings, wing unfolding mechanism etc).. leaves us with 450-500kgs of fuel.. Take the conservative estimate of 450kgs fuel..

Given the launch wt of 1200 Kg, the craft will have Lift to Drag Ratio of at least 10 (conservative estimate for a sub-sonic cruise missile) at cruising speed of Mach 0.75 (~900Km/Hr). Thus cruise thrust requirement is just 120 Kg (IIRC it is in same ball park as Tomahwak). Given that average craft weight will weigh lesser by (0.5 times Fuel-Weight) the above is even more conservative.

Assuming engine SFC of 1 Kg/Kg/Hr that means it requires 120 Kg fuel to cruise for 1 Hr ( @ 900 Km/Hr). Now assume whatever fuel capacity and you can see how the missile range pans out. :twisted:

{FYI: typical L/D ratios: Paraglider - 11 ; Concorde in Mach 2 supersonic cruise - 7.1}



But you know Kafir yindoos are not as efficient as Yankees or Beef eating Porkis.. so my estimate is less optimisitc..

Actually it will not be a bad idea to work backwards from Lakshya.. Lakshya MTOW - 700kgs.. now add 300kg payload, 100kg electronics, 100kg for addtional structure+guidance.. we get 1200kgs.. if we know the fuel loading of Lakshya and assume same fuel loading for Nirbhay (which will be quite conservative) and workout with 120-150kg cruise thrust and sfc or 1kg/kgf/hr -- we will get a decent (conservative) estimate for the range of Nirbhay.. Either way we work -- Atleast what this tells us is -- Nirbhay range is more close to 1000km rather than 500km..

Somebody please post a photo of Lakshya specs from the static display or post its fuel capacity Please please

BTW - Arun, you might be interested in these brochures of ISRO.. download from here - I left them in full res so that you can get all the numbers you may want..
http://rapidshare.com/files/199067468/ISRO.ZIP.html

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 17 Feb 2009 11:58

rakall wrote:
Rahul M wrote:rakall and KP, any update on astra and/or barak-2 ??


Nope.. I went to the DRDL stall.. but this time they hardly had anything on display.. and they had hardly anybody to talk to..

Israeli's were very reluctant to talk.. There was a 1:1 model of MRSAM.. but not ready to talk..



MRSAM? is it barak-2, can you give some idea about its dimensions etc?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby k prasad » 17 Feb 2009 12:45

Talking about the Nag, adding to the wealth of info that Rakall has already added, the paanwallah mentioned that they are not looking at an mmW seeker for nag, at least, they are not pushing it with full urgency.... apparently, the Army also has the same view, and doesn't have a problem.

We do have an indigenously developed mmW seeker that is working to 2 km. However, it is still a prototype stage, and the range is far too short for a good ATGM application, although they may be able to use it if the missile is ground guided, and has terminal active mmW homing. But given that the IIR is ok for now, they are looking at consolidating the mmW experience rather than rushing forward to quickly get a product out.

Incidentally, our mmW expertise is light years ahead of our IIR capabilities (due to the better radar knowledge obviously). In fact, they are facing huge problems with the indigenous IIR seekers, both in terms of weight, reliability (in field conditions and high speeds and stresses), and also in the technology itself - but DRDO is going full steam on this tech, so the scientists are confident that we can do it.

But as of now, we lag far behind in seekers, and are seeking extensive Israeli help for the tech. They are also being imported from other countries for our use, mainly France (which is ripping us off on these seekers). The US didn't help matters by putting embargoes (and pressure on other countries not to supply the tech) on giving seekers... hopefully, with the new thaw, they will be more supportive. However, I wouldn't count too much on it. France also refused to give tech, especially since they were our sole suppliers, and there was no one close, but with the Israelis also now coming up with a revolution in seekers, they may be getting jittery enough to loosen their grip.

Also had a chat with an RCI scientist - very interesting anecdotes, some of which I may not be able to share. But did get a few interesting tidbits of info.

Cheers

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 17 Feb 2009 12:55

I was reading a detailed technial paper on Tomhawk (lost the link) but the point that was made is that the range of 1500km is given for normal combat flight profile but if it flown at ideal altitude/speed then the range is around 2500-3500km. So to get a combat range of 1000km for Nirbhay the ideal max possible range should be 2000km or so.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 12:57

Raj Malhotra wrote:
rakall wrote:Nope.. I went to the DRDL stall.. but this time they hardly had anything on display.. and they had hardly anybody to talk to..

Israeli's were very reluctant to talk.. There was a 1:1 model of MRSAM.. but not ready to talk..



MRSAM? is it barak-2, can you give some idea about its dimensions etc?


yes it is the barak-2.. there was no poster board wit dimensions..
But the missile was 10-12feet long.. may be slightly longer.. 12-14" dia.. (eye ball estimates)
one set of fins at the top - near nose, one set of fins near the tailend... Hope somebody took a picture

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 17 Feb 2009 13:06

rakall wrote:Nirbhay
Spoke to a lot of ADE people about Nirbhay – except sketchy words, no concrete info.
Most people say it will have a range between 500-1000km. So you can guess what the range will be.


Thanks to all for sharing your experiences. But were these information shared with you all with the understanding that it may be broadcast on a public forum?
I know at times you all have not divulged some information & kept it secret, but what you all have shared, would that be ok with the original giver of the info?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 17 Feb 2009 13:15

This will give us dimensions of US Standard RIM-66 missile or thereabouts, the weight should be around 500-800kg. With these details, I think that the max range would be more in the order of 70km to 100km

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sum » 17 Feb 2009 13:32

Also had a chat with an RCI scientist - very interesting anecdotes, some of which I may not be able to share. But did get a few interesting tidbits of info.

The suspense is just too much to handle!!! :evil:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 13:47

AdityaM wrote:
rakall wrote:Nirbhay
Spoke to a lot of ADE people about Nirbhay – except sketchy words, no concrete info.
Most people say it will have a range between 500-1000km. So you can guess what the range will be.


Thanks to all for sharing your experiences. But were these information shared with you all with the understanding that it may be broadcast on a public forum?
I know at times you all have not divulged some information & kept it secret, but what you all have shared, would that be ok with the original giver of the info?



Most of the information that has been shared is what was already a "guess or doubt" in public domain - that is why we have been to able to ask those specific questions and get answers/info ... If you look at LCA info - that was what the person actually said to a group of 5-6people.. so no secrecy there... and YET on a couple of things we exercised restraint and such info was not written in posts on "voluntary judgement" bcoz of sensitive nature..

For ex- Nirbhay's range has always been a guess in the 500-1000km rage.. the rest of the post is only "interpolation and calculations" based on a piece of info that has been gathered regarding its weight.. Most of the other stuff also - the info was generally available, but obvioulsy twisted out of shape by DDMitis.. so basically managed to clarify such things..

Nothing that compromises confidentiality has been posted..

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 17 Feb 2009 14:38

rakall wrote:But you know Kafir yindoos are not as efficient as Yankees or Beef eating Porkis.. so my estimate is less optimisitc..

Actually it will not be a bad idea to work backwards from Lakshya.. Lakshya MTOW - 700kgs.. now add 300kg payload, 100kg electronics, 100kg for addtional structure+guidance.. we get 1200kgs.. if we know the fuel loading of Lakshya and assume same fuel loading for Nirbhay (which will be quite conservative) and workout with 120-150kg cruise thrust and sfc or 1kg/kgf/hr -- we will get a decent (conservative) estimate for the range of Nirbhay.. Either way we work -- Atleast what this tells us is -- Nirbhay range is more close to 1000km rather than 500km..


Rakall,

Arun Saar is right on the dot on the aerodynamics predictions. Assuming the L/D ratios for counterparts of the Nirbhay, and adding to it two crucial pieces of info you have discovered (i.e. weight and TSFC), you can go ahead and calculate a range based on assumptions for cruise speeds (even this you could use comparing values with Nirbhay counterparts) and fuel taken to get a bunch of charts. I took the liberty of getting one done for you:

Image

Now our boy Nirbhay is probably somewhere between those three lines above. Also note that 300-400 is probably the fuel it is going to carry. For this range of fuel, moving at the speed of the tomahawk, the Nirbhay can go from anywhere between 1300 to 1700 Km... :twisted:

-Vivek

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby k prasad » 17 Feb 2009 14:48

sum wrote:
Also had a chat with an RCI scientist - very interesting anecdotes, some of which I may not be able to share. But did get a few interesting tidbits of info.

The suspense is just too much to handle!!! :evil:


Hehe... in that case, I'm really sorry if this post disappoints you.

I missed the RCI presentation at the Seminar, so I don't have much info from that side. However, from speaking to this guy, he said that they are still suffering from embargoes, but unlike 3-4 years ago, they don't really care.

There was their new RLG based INS on display... a box about 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 m. He mentioned that this was under final testing, and they'd see where to put it. Given the size, I don't think it could be placed in any small missile. When i mentioned this, he just gave a smile and a no comment.

The Indian Navy is looking for RLG based INS's for their ships, and especially for their ship launched missiles.... this is a much bigger challenge to the RCI ppl than even the ones they made for missiles - the reason simply is time - in a missile, your flight times are quite small, and in most cases, the active seekers compensate. Additionally, with larger missiles, you wouldn't need an extremely high accuracy, and can do with about 50 m accuracy.

However, with a Naval ship that can be out at sea for months, and far from home base for even longer, this becomes absolutely critical - present RLGs have an extremely accuracy of ...... degrees per hour (I'll mention this number once I figure out if its confidential or not). Over a few hundred hours out at sea (1 month = 720 hrs), that can lead to a few degrees of inaccuracy, which is absolutely unacceptable, since a 1 degree error at 200 km is around 350 m, which is too large for a missile, esp an AShM.

So they are trying to develop RLGs with far far higher accuracies. This can be achieved by using a larger INS with a bigger light cavity on the RLG. Given that the platform is a ship, I dont think space and size should be a problem, so we can do it.

The present RLGs are now far better and more accurate than what a lot of other countries have. The scientist proudly said that they didn't need to get technology from anyone, and were almost at the level the best in the field are at. He scoffed at the Sanctions, mentioning that thanks to them, they were able to develop some revolutionary technologies and techniques in the INS's which would make the Khans go green with envy (he refused to elaborate on what these were).

The Sanctions did initially hit them hard, and continued sanctions did cause problems till around 2003-04, after which the technology matured, and they were able to go much easier. I don't know what the breakthrough was, but there was a definite tech breakthrough during that period which paved the way for the products to be developed. Overall, the sanctions (as Dr. Aatre once pointed out) were a big boost for us, and especially for RCI. Incidentally, the Khans now have apparently shown some interest in partnering with RCI (not just on the AD, but on these techs as well).

Coming back to how good the RLGs are, he said that in any JVs, esp with Russians, the Indian INS'es are used thanks to their accuracy (we have left the Russians in the dust in this field at least). {{A bit more on this was mentioned, but I will not mention it, simply because it will jeopardize collaboration and bring more heat... but suffice to say that we no longer need to look outwards for help}}

Overall, he was indeed quite happy with the level of funding and support given, but wished that projects could be cleared much faster. The convo then went on to DRDO in general, and he said that a lot of the lab's performance depended on the man who led, and if he was effective in leading and pushed people to work, results would follow... he indeed was quite critical of the amount of politicking that goes on in the DRDO labs (anyone who knows 2 or more scientists will know what I'm talking about), but RCI has lost a lot of that simply coz they are now loaded with work.

Next projects:

They are looking at making ultra-small INS's using MEMS and nano-tech. There was a german company that was showing such products in one of the halls, but they were quite clear that while they could sell anything, there could be no ToT (the Co was a German subsidiary of Northrop Grummans). The INS's they were showing were MEMS based (with a rather low accuracy for missile applics) but were smaller than the nail of a little finger (including the packaging and contacts). The whole package of an INS was smaller than a visiting card.

The existing RLGs also, they are trying to make much smaller, while keeping the same accuracy. Also, weight reduction measures are being tried.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 14:50

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Rakall,

Arun Saar is right on the dot on the aerodynamics predictions. Assuming the L/D ratios for counterparts of the Nirbhay, and adding to it two crucial pieces of info you have discovered (i.e. weight and TSFC), you can go ahead and calculate a range based on assumptions for cruise speeds (even this you could use comparing values with Nirbhay counterparts) and fuel taken to get a bunch of charts. I took the liberty of getting one done for you:

Image

Now our boy Nirbhay is probably somewhere between those three lines above. Also note that 300-400 is probably the fuel it is going to carry. For this range of fuel, moving at the speed of the tomahawk, the Nirbhay can go from anywhere between 1300 to 1700 Km... :twisted:

-Vivek



Soooooooper !!!!! 8) 8) 8)

Thanks.. we will keep this plot as reference..

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 17 Feb 2009 16:12

naval RLGs would be absolutely crucial for the nuclear subs if they have to operate submerged for any extended period of time. surface ships can still use other methods to some extent.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Philip » 17 Feb 2009 17:39

Rahul,remember the problems the Kilos had with theri Klub missiles? It was traced to the sub/missile gyro errors.One Kilo is supposedly being fitted out to launch Brahmos in Russia.Any idea if it is an IN sub or Russian.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby shiv » 17 Feb 2009 18:12

Titbit from Vayu I/2009 page 75

In the long run the ASTRA BVRAAM is set to complement the the ultra long range KS 172 and long range RVV-AE (plus possibly MBDA meteor) family of BVRAAM's and R-73 and Python 5 Close Combat Missiles in the IAF's air to air missile inventory.


:shock: DDMitis?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 18:22

Philip wrote:Rahul,remember the problems the Kilos had with theri Klub missiles? It was traced to the sub/missile gyro errors.One Kilo is supposedly being fitted out to launch Brahmos in Russia.Any idea if it is an IN sub or Russian.


I wish to be wrong on this -- but, 3 different persons at Brahmos told that IN has not provided any platform for Sub launched Brahmos..
I dont see why Russian navy will give one bcoz they dont intend to buy any Brahmos.

IAF is ready to provide an a/c for Brahmos integration.. but work is heldup bcoz of SDB delaying the required structural modification..
Last edited by rakall on 17 Feb 2009 19:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby shiv » 17 Feb 2009 18:28

rakall wrote:I wish to be wrong on this -- but, 3 different persons at Brahmos told that IN has not provided any platform for Brahmos..


No submarine platform that is - there are pictures of Brahmos being fired from IN ships.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Nayak » 17 Feb 2009 19:13

Courtesy Vayu Issue Jan 01 - 2009

Cutaway of Akash SAM

Image

NAG missile

Image

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Nayak » 17 Feb 2009 19:16

Courtesy Vayu Issue Jan 01 - 2009

Astra

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2009 19:17

Nayak wrote:Courtesy Vayu Issue Jan 01 - 2009

Astra

Image

Image



Thanks a lot.. can you also please post any LCA article Vayu has...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Nayak » 17 Feb 2009 19:23

rakall wrote:

Thanks a lot.. can you also please post any LCA article Vayu has...


Done, please check the LCA thread.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Nayak » 17 Feb 2009 19:31

shiv wrote:
rakall wrote:I wish to be wrong on this -- but, 3 different persons at Brahmos told that IN has not provided any platform for Brahmos..


No submarine platform that is - there are pictures of Brahmos being fired from IN ships.


Courtesy Vayu Jan 01 - 2009

Image

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sum » 17 Feb 2009 19:39

Philip wrote:Rahul,remember the problems the Kilos had with theri Klub missiles? It was traced to the sub/missile gyro errors.One Kilo is supposedly being fitted out to launch Brahmos in Russia.Any idea if it is an IN sub or Russian.

IIRC, the Brahmos team was still waiting to hear from the IN for their sub request. So, doubt if it is a Indian sub.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 Feb 2009 21:29

Kprasad, google for gyro chip.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby p_saggu » 17 Feb 2009 23:37

The navy doesn't have a submarine that has either a VLS or a Tube diameter that'll allow the Brahmos to be tested.
Why can't they use the Pontoon launcher? They could have made three tubes of different diameters to test various systems. Tomorrow they'll need to test the Nirbhay sub launch too. I don't think IN is giving out a sub just yet.

Is it possible to convert one of the remaining foxtrots for this purpose? The torpedo tube that is.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Omar » 18 Feb 2009 00:57

They are looking at making ultra-small INS's using MEMS and nano-tech. There was a german company that was showing such products in one of the halls, but they were quite clear that while they could sell anything, there could be no ToT (the Co was a German subsidiary of Northrop Grummans). The INS's they were showing were MEMS based (with a rather low accuracy for missile applics) but were smaller than the nail of a little finger (including the packaging and contacts). The whole package of an INS was smaller than a visiting card.

The existing RLGs also, they are trying to make much smaller, while keeping the same accuracy. Also, weight reduction measures are being tried.


K prasad:

What was the name of the German company? I know CEERI @ Pilani is currently involved in the design and development MEMS inertial sensors (http://www.ceeri.res.in/areas/mems/current.html). Would this project be pursued in collaboration with industry or academic partners? Or would it be done entirely in house?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Feb 2009 01:24

Is it possible to convert one of the remaining foxtrots for this purpose? The torpedo tube that is.

why torp tube. cutting open the hull and inserting 2-4 VL cells would be the most optimum way to create a test platform rather than using one of the kilos.

it would probably need a protruding plug of the type PLAN xia sports, in order to accommodate the big brahmos and perhaps its successor.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Feb 2009 01:33

shiv wrote:In the long run the ASTRA BVRAAM is set to complement the the ultra long range KS 172 and long range RVV-AE (plus possibly MBDA meteor) family of BVRAAM's and R-73 and Python 5 Close Combat Missiles in the IAF's air to air missile inventory.

err, why do you think it is DDMitis ?

all of the above are either already in IAF inventory (RVV-AE i.e R-77, R-73, Python V rumoured) or expected (Meteor,KS-172).

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ManuJ » 18 Feb 2009 05:07

rakall wrote:I dont see why Russian navy will give one bcoz they dont intend to buy any Brahmos..

Don't they want to sell IN their Amurs equipped with VLS Brahmos?

Arun_S
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 18 Feb 2009 06:13

rakall wrote:BTW - Arun, you might be interested in these brochures of ISRO.. download from here - I left them in full res so that you can get all the numbers you may want..
http://rapidshare.com/files/199067468/ISRO.ZIP.html

Sorry I was busy with other stuff, and now I notice all 10 downloads are used, so cant download any more.
Can you pls upload again privately and email link that to me?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby shiv » 18 Feb 2009 06:46

Rahul M wrote:
shiv wrote:In the long run the ASTRA BVRAAM is set to complement the the ultra long range KS 172 and long range RVV-AE (plus possibly MBDA meteor) family of BVRAAM's and R-73 and Python 5 Close Combat Missiles in the IAF's air to air missile inventory.

err, why do you think it is DDMitis ?

all of the above are either already in IAF inventory (RVV-AE i.e R-77, R-73, Python V rumoured) or expected (Meteor,KS-172).


"In the IAF's inventory" or "expected to be in the IAF's inventory". Huge gap between the two meanings - esp wrt KS 172 that is rarely seen or heard of outside BRF.

If the KS 172 is already with the IAF that would be a revelation. If not, it is DDMitis.


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