Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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dinakar
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by dinakar »

Apologies if posted earlier...
Hat-trick of hits
THE Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO) prowess in advanced software that goes into the making of interceptor missiles was proved convincingly on March 6 when a Prithvi interceptor missile achieved a direct hit-to-kill on an “enemy” missile.


“Our strength is our software,” V.K. Saraswat, Programme Director, Air Defence, DRDO, had declared in November 2008. “In the ballistic missile defence shield, if there are glitches in the software, it cannot be excused. It has to work thoroughly. There are a million lines of code. The onboard software runs in real time in the interceptor missile.”

It was the third success in a row for the DRDO, which has been making all-out efforts to acquire a two-layered ballistic missile defence shield with interceptors that can shoot down incoming missiles. It tasted success in its first mission on November 27, 2006, when a Prithvi missile intercepted a Prithvi-II missile at an altitude of 48 km in what is called the exo-atmosphere. It was a direct hit. The interceptor was called Prithvi Air Defence (PAD-01). Again, on December 6, 2008, an Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile shot down a modified Prithvi missile at an altitude of 15 km in what is called the endo-atmosphere when the “attacker” was in the final stage of its flight. It was a direct hit too. With the March 6 direct hit, the DRDO has achieved a hat-trick.

Three features stood out in the latest mission: the Prithvi interceptor missile’s gimballed/manoeuvrable warhead, which can rotate 360 degrees; the interceptor’s coasting phase, which can “take care” of the manoeuvres performed by the attacker; and the very advanced software residing in the computers of the interceptor. The warhead is called a directional one because it can be directed to explode towards the target. Only the U.S. and Russia have gimballed directional warheads.

The highlights of the mission were proving the technology of the gimballed directional warhead and demonstrating the interceptor’s coasting phase, using a vernier thruster. This coasting phase in the interceptor’s trajectory helps it to decide at what stage it should intercept the “enemy” missile. If the attacker does a manoeuvre, the interceptor’s guidance system will take care of it. To make the seeker effective, the DRDO used a wide-beam RPF in the warhead, which was a mini-radar. “So even if there is a manoeuvre by the enemy missile in the last 500 milliseconds, the RPF will be able to take care of it. The directional warhead will be ignited on the basis of the data given by the RPF,” said Saraswat.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

ramana wrote:Please read the few psots above. The requiremens have changed and hence the need for this weapon. And its the DRDO that is in sync with this proposal. For once things are happening rihgt and thats why the Commies are sabotaging this procurement. The threat is from PRC. Connect the dots.
Hi Ramana,

Newbie here but been a lurker for some time. While I do agree that the Israeli partnership will help accelerate things (as even the DRDO acknowledges), we do seem to be suffering from an "either-or" syndrome. Its not a question of either Akash or the new MRSAM. We need both, especially since the new missile is not going to be inducted for 5 years at least. Akash can at least plug some of the air defense gaps in the meanwhile. Plus it will help recoup the R&D cost and we may learn a thing or two while mass-manufacturing SAMs. Unless of course, the MRSAM has sucked out all oxygen in the room and there is no funding left for Akash squadrons (we can perhaps thank the ex-IAF officer for that)
Last edited by Gerard on 01 Apr 2009 01:46, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: username changed to conform with forum guidelines
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Samay »

welcome to brf bigfoot, 8)
the porkisatans always wanted the Indian missile defence prog to be encapsulated in the differences between army and drdo,

we have to admit that they(p.satans) have some proxies in israel too ,otherwise it was not possible that israeli media also supports,a stand alone newspaper like dna,

fact is it will be their biggest win if they somehow push the missile deal into a political trap and their proxies in India, do the rest by not accepting akash to the fullest, mrsam is the way , and aad-pad will beef up the second layer of defence,

And roles of both systems are predetermined, one is not supposed to replace other..
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Thanks Samay!!

Didnt understand your full post but I do agree with your last line & we might be talking about the same thing. Akash, being an SRSAM by today's standards cannot do an MRSAM role. The reverse is not possible either. So, they both have their respective roles. Then, why the limited induction of Akash? Unless its a severely under-performing missile, which I find hard to believe - going by the reports of back-to-back successful tests last year.

The answer cannot be Maitri either (at least in the short term) because that project is still in the drawing boards, I believe.

In summary, Akash is much better than the SAMs we have in service, the next gen ones are 5+ years away, yet we wont induct Akash in large numbers. Weird, weird, weird ....
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by jaladipc »

Its really sad to put the stuff like this which took so many man hours and as many rupees from the yindoo tax payers.Akash AD system will have to end up with a total of 5 sqadrons.thats the best DRDO can move up to.due to the high anticipation levels of chinese agressiveness the defence preparedness has taken a exponential curve.It means MOD has to come up and end up with a speedy development and deployment strategy along with cutting the cost of the induction itself.akash itself is a pretty good system according to the standards and can beat any other contemporary system available today in its class.But the road block here is the maturity of the system itself.It means for the added range to make the system as a true Medium range SAM the costs are touching the skies and consumes more time.MOD decided to go together rather than alone.Even the entire akash system cost 200 million which is far far less than the comparative and other contemporary systems.Putting the stuff together,the bakara here is DRDO.they dont have a proper management system and a hardcore guy who can go and deal with MOD and forces as well.It is the responsibility of DRDO to pay each and every paisa from their pocket when the forces change the requirements.Before IA asked for a RAM jet version of the AD system and now they agreed to consider the solid fueled pulse jet.Before IA put the hard requirement for a sustained flight speed and now it is ok for them going along with a pulse jet with non-sustained flight.

And if its the same IA or IAF ordering the stuff from foreign malkaland $900 million development project with once printed requirements will never change.
where is the problem?is it with the armed forces or the management of top research organizations?Now MOD formulated another alternative to counter the change in requirements. i.e the armed forces has/have to pay for their ever changing requirements and ofcourse a considerable part of the development cost.and once the development is done,they for sure have to induct a minimum number of units from the local organizations to compensate the development cost.(which ofcourse is a pretty good strategy to save the poor research and development organisations)

and coming to the long screwed 10000crore MRSAM project, it has to enter user testing by 2012 and will be inducted eventually once the user trails are done.Almost all ground testings of the missile are going as per the schedule.The initial test fire of the Indian supplied pulse jet was tested early last year itself.IAI to educate DRDO in seeker technology.and other sensors.of the whole budget allocated for the project which includes 2 squadrons of the same system and do include the transfer of technology( TOT for Israeli components)And Israel will assist indian fellaws in transforming the present AAD and the new PDV to go ship borne.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by sum »

Jaladi-saar,
You seem to have some interesting pan-wallahs.... :wink:
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by ramana »

jaldipc wrote: ...due to the high anticipation levels of chinese agressiveness the defence preparedness has taken a exponential curve.It means MOD has to come up and end up with a speedy development and deployment strategy along with cutting the cost of the induction itself....
This is what I guessed as soon as the report was published and hinted at it in all my posts above. We try to see the subjects as silos/unconnected even when they are all related. Shyam Saran's speech to me was the most important one of this decade for it recognized the reality of India's position and its realtive advantages.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by jaladipc »

^^ can u email me @ jaladipc at gmail dot com
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Avarachan »

ramana wrote:
This is what I guessed as soon as the report was published and hinted at it in all my posts above. We try to see the subjects as silos/unconnected even when they are all related. Shyam Saran's speech to me was the most important one of this decade for it recognized the reality of India's position and its realtive advantages.
Ramana, which Shyam Saran speech are you referring to? If you don't have time to post the link, can you provide more specifics so I can look it up on my own? Thanks.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by ramana »

I have a whole thread on that in the Strat forum. Its called US-PRC and India-1
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Samay »

jaldipc,ramana sir,
for DRDO, the project motto should be
'The Brahmos Way'
that is foreign,indigenous collaborations, should be the way every project is dealt

here brahmos is a case where there is high success achieved in a specific time interval , for the first time with this organisation(DRDO)
and the brahmos inc. is spreading the missile utility continuously and overall progress has been leaps and bounds ,
,
I think that we should have a thread which discusses this brahmos success as a case study for present as well as future developments, there are also some factors which compels such project to be successful most of the times,
so i request you to open such a thread :)
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by ramana »

The assumption is that Brahmos hardware would be available inexpensively so that India can concetrate on the guidance etc. Unfortunately the prices got jacked up and IA is holding DRDO responsible. All this came out after the Jan 20 test. My take is after the inital round India should have insisted on getting the whole thing co-produced so there is a second source and control over prices.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Gerard »

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ty/353369/
In a separate statement, Tata Power said its strategic electronics division (SED) has bagged Rs 182.46 crore order from Bharat Electronics to manufacture ‘16 Akash Launchers’ for India's defence forces. To launchers have to be delivered in next 33 months. Since 1991, Tata Power SED has been engaged with the Akash Missile program and in 2005, the division delivered the Air Force version of the Akash launcher as their first integrated design-to-manufacturing project, test firing a missile in 18 months from the date of order placement, said the release.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by jaladipc »

Untill i came to know the truth behind the brahmos story i do felt weird and showed my insanity towards the project.

wot people here has to know is that,basically and intentionally brhamos is only meant for India.and we sought russian help in the project and due to some other reasons we have to get them onboard the project development as a co-partner.

yindoos might have gone with the local made re-designed ramjet version for a cruise missile.but think abt it.........we in india have a very good project sense.And am not here to blame on any one,but in the end who is screwed up is India as a nation.due to the improper project management and time lines and as i said earlier abt the chinese aggressiveness MOD has to sought the russian help in upgrading their yakont AShM.We are still paying loyalties to the russians for using their base technology.As ramjets themself are costlier and royalties on top of that makes them much costlier.And you will never find the electronics on brahmos on any other system in this whole world.So we are having a high end trade-off between price and effectiveness of system itself.
And some back we did have reports that russia is not inducting brahmos and only india is inducting-----becos we are the ones who needed the system onboard our ships,not them.we barely spent a 300 million on the development of the system along with russians.and the development cost will be leverage by the minimum orders made by indian armed forces.Brahmos is going to endup as the highest speed AShM to be ever deploy on the IN ships.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Cybaru »

Is brahmos-II (not block 2) being structured differently ?
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Austin »

jaladipc wrote:We are still paying loyalties to the russians for using their base technology.As ramjets themself are costlier and royalties on top of that makes them much costlier.And you will never find the electronics on brahmos on any other system in this whole world.So we are having a high end trade-off between price and effectiveness of system itself.
And some back we did have reports that russia is not inducting brahmos and only india is inducting-----becos we are the ones who needed the system onboard our ships,not them.we barely spent a 300 million on the development of the system along with russians.and the development cost will be leverage by the minimum orders made by indian armed forces.Brahmos is going to endup as the highest speed AShM to be ever deploy on the IN ships.
I think royalties should work both ways if we end up paying for Ramjet then they end up paying for the electronics , sensors that we had developed.

Russia is inducting Brahmos starting from Groshkov class frigate , but in the end Brahmos is limited to MTCR restrictions , its a good missile to replace the Sunburn , SS-N-25 , Styx in Indian and Russian inventory.

But it cant replace the Shipwreck ,P-1000 on their Strategic Submarine and Cruiser , so both parties will have their own limitations since MTCR comes into play.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by shetty »

Austin wrote:
jaladipc wrote:We are still paying loyalties to the russians for using their base technology.As ramjets themself are costlier and royalties on top of that makes them much costlier.And you will never find the electronics on brahmos on any other system in this whole world.So we are having a high end trade-off between price and effectiveness of system itself.
And some back we did have reports that russia is not inducting brahmos and only india is inducting-----becos we are the ones who needed the system onboard our ships,not them.we barely spent a 300 million on the development of the system along with russians.and the development cost will be leverage by the minimum orders made by indian armed forces.Brahmos is going to endup as the highest speed AShM to be ever deploy on the IN ships.
I think royalties should work both ways if we end up paying for Ramjet then they end up paying for the electronics , sensors that we had developed.

Russia is inducting Brahmos starting from Groshkov class frigate , but in the end Brahmos is limited to MTCR restrictions , its a good missile to replace the Sunburn , SS-N-25 , Styx in Indian and Russian inventory.

But it cant replace the Shipwreck ,P-1000 on their Strategic Submarine and Cruiser , so both parties will have their own limitations since MTCR comes into play.

Austin, royalties will only come in for India when either Russia starts to order or we are able to sell it to third parties. Until then it will only be a one way street since only we are inducting it.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Philip »

There is some reservation about exporting B'Mos due to its unique capabilities,not found in other anti-ship/land strike missiles.Russia will probably induct it after revising their rules about fielding "foreign" eqpt.,but only in cases where the 300km MTCR range is relevant to the platform.One would imagine that their warships and subs,if B'Mos equipped,would want a far greater range,keeping in mind their anti-carrier doctrine.I think that once the hypersonic version is avilable ,or round the corner for both India and Russia,we will see large Russian orders as well as exports of B'Mos Mk1 to friendly nations.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Austin »

shetty wrote: Austin, royalties will only come in for India when either Russia starts to order or we are able to sell it to third parties. Until then it will only be a one way street since only we are inducting it.
Agreed , but as I have mentioned they have decided to arm their new Groshkov class frigate with Brahmos.

Plus there is a huge potential to replace the existing Sunburn , SS-N-25 , and other short range AshM in their service with Brahmos , ditto goes for India.
B'Mos equipped,would want a far greater range,keeping in mind their anti-carrier doctrine.I think that once the hypersonic version is avilable ,or round the corner for both India and Russia,we will see large Russian orders as well as exports of B'Mos Mk1 to friendly nations.
The Hypersonic Brahmos II will suffer the same problem of Range restriction as Brahmos , as its usefullness to arm strategic submarine and SSGN with such missile will be limited.

India and Russia have different security doctrines and interest , as some point a standard weapon will suffice for both , but on others both will have to develop their own capability based on their needs
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Katare »

Interesting headline......

"God less communists, most pious muslims of secular India and most anti muslim crusading Christian super power are collaborating against the deal struck by jews and hindus" :roll:
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Avarachan »

andy B wrote:
Katare saar not only are the Christians but the Orthodox christian are in the fray too..... :roll: :evil:
Huh?
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by andy B »

^^^ was referring to the rooskies!!!
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Missile Man pierces army apathy - How a tenacious technocrat put the supersonic BrahMos back on track
...
Yet, in the space of just over two months, Pillai produced a missile — a supersonic cruise missile for the army — through three rapid-fire tests that left the generals gasping for its uniqueness, for its speed and for Pillai’s sheer grit.

Pillai has made the BrahMos Land Attack Cruise Missile Mark II real despite opposition from the Indian Army that kept upping its demands and reducing the size of the targets in the tests.
...

Then why did the Indian Army open itself to suggestions that it was not keen on the project? Clear-cut answers won’t be available to such questions. But the army has been seeing demonstrations of missiles by Raytheon Corporation. A section of the army’s artillery officers has been impressed by it.

A piece of history that DRDO’s scientists are familiar with was in danger of being repeated: was another indigenous, rather, a semi-indigenous military programme going to be sacrificed in the interest of imports? And to the benefit of middlemen who would earn fat commissions? All in the name of national security? And national interest?

...
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Then on March 29 — just last week — Pillai requested the army to send a team to witness another test. The director general of military operations, Lt Gen A.S. Sekhon, led a team.

This time, the army put up just a sheet as a target with reflectors on two sides to deflect the missile from its trajectory.

Pillai’s BrahMos hit bull’s eye. Without waiting for official word from the army this time, Pillai went public, proclaiming its success.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by hnair »

:rotfl:

I like this crop of "Hip-hop moghul" managers of DRDO and ISRO, Shree Saraswath, Shree Nair and Shree Pillai.

These three exhibit a certain amount of swagger in their press dealings that are up there with any Oppenheimer or Kelly Johnson. Earlier everyone laughed at them, but after the successes of ABM, Chandrayaan and Brahmos MkII, the crowd parts for these three gentlemen when they walk in. Real nice.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by K_Reddy »

Do any of you have this dolt's email ID. I posted it in the comment section but I does not appear on the page. Thanks Prem for the proof reading, I am dyslexic and useless with spellings. I agree this should be sent to every defense correspondent in India, if nothing else then to piss him/her? off. Please feel free to forward this letter to anyone that comes to mind. The defense reporting in this country is atrocious. The MOD needs to shortlist one qualified reporter from every major news outlet and do a workshop to impart basic knowledge on defense matters to the DDM. Thanks.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by sum »

Asked to comment on former Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi working for a foreign company in New Delhi, he said: "I am not aware of it. Many retired defence officials do work after retirement."
So, the alleged IAF person who was "supposed to have scuttled Akash in favour of the Israelis" is ACM Tyagi? :eek: :shock:
Then why did the Indian Army open itself to suggestions that it was not keen on the project? Clear-cut answers won’t be available to such questions. But the army has been seeing demonstrations of missiles by Raytheon Corporation. A section of the army’s artillery officers has been impressed by it.
Time has come for the IA to start getting out of the Brochure-itis and start giving as much support to local variants as they give to the firangi maal...
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Samay »

That's a scientist's answer to the army and specially to those who are still living in hypothetical british raj who still think that Indians cant produce anything on their own..

As the drdo gains more expertise and closes in on every bit of sophisticated technology in the world, then it would be even more difficult for the army to neglect desi-tech, maybe some day drdo will set the standards instead of some corrupt officials
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

For once, it looks, that the Army more than met its match in Dr. Pillai. Obviously, Dr. Pillai and his team learnt a lot from the Arjun issue on how to handle the Army brass.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Baljeet »

sum wrote: Time has come for the IA to start getting out of the Brochure-itis and start giving as much support to local variants as they give to the firangi maal...
Sum
If IA and IAF did what you are saying, how would they carry on with their slave mentality, hideous victorian british english something like, " I respectfully beg to state..........." or "bloddy hell" :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Baljeet »

SSridhar wrote:
For once, it looks, that the Army more than met its match in Dr. Pillai. Obviously, Dr. Pillai and his team learnt a lot from the Arjun issue on how to handle the Army brass.

SSridhar
Dr. Pillai is a very well respected name in International Military Circle. This man has been frequently consulted by Pentagon, JIEDDO for providing input on fight against IED's that were decimating US Forces in Iraq.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Why are we dargging the Brahmos Block II missile testing and induction into issue into a pissing contest between the DRDO and IA? It is as if it is a game of one up manship between the DRDO and IA? Where is IA apathy as it is the headline in the story? Does ny one on this forum knows what was the parameter for inducting the Block II version? The section on reducing the target size in subsequent tests has been written as if IA was deliberately trying to make the missile fail by upping the ante which might have not been part of the mandate? The 1st test was a clear failure. the 2nd test as per DRDO was a success. But does it say why it was success? Did Pillai refer to missile hitting the target in the 2nd test as emphatically as he said in the 3rd test? I guess we are guessing too much into in this case.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Gaur »

^^IMO it is IA which is to be blamed for this "pissing contest", but not in a way you may think. I feel IA has very poor PR skills. Perhaps there was a reason why Bramhos was not declared successful after the second test. May be IA had decided that one successful test after a failed test was not enough for Bramhos to be cleared. Perhaps one test was not enough to establish all the capabilities of the missile and IA had not wanted to look foolish if perchance the third test had failed. There may be several reasons and all plausible. The point is that instead of leaving the cause to our imagination ( and ddm's ), IA should have issued some statement.
But IA is known to be silent in many issues ( for eg arjun ). This gives ddm the opportunity to write whatever rubbish they can imagine and this adds to the confusion of the general public. IMO IA needs to appoint specific people trained in PR to deal with media.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Victor »

From the Brahmos article, this is music to a jingo:
“In 15 minutes flat...your enemy country can be destroyed and you do not even have to go nuclear.” :eek:
“In the Iraq war, the US launched 1,000 Tomahawks in half a day,” he recalled. “You have to think on that scale. And the BrahMos is supersonic. It cannot be intercepted. Even we cannot do anything to it, once we launch it. Fire and forget. You think of the missile in hundreds, thousands... :twisted:
.
Just quietly quoting facts like this will have the required effect.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Victor wrote:From the Brahmos article, this is music to a jingo:
“In 15 minutes flat...your enemy country can be destroyed and you do not even have to go nuclear.” :eek:
“In the Iraq war, the US launched 1,000 Tomahawks in half a day,” he recalled. “You have to think on that scale. And the BrahMos is supersonic. It cannot be intercepted. Even we cannot do anything to it, once we launch it. Fire and forget. You think of the missile in hundreds, thousands... :twisted:
.
Just quietly quoting facts like this will have the required effect.
What is the rate that India can produce the BM-BII. How soon will we have the hundreds and thousands of these to throw at our friendly neighborhood.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Parijat Gaur wrote:^^IMO it is IA which is to be blamed for this "pissing contest", but not in a way you may think. I feel IA has very poor PR skills. Perhaps there was a reason why Bramhos was not declared successful after the second test. May be IA had decided that one successful test after a failed test was not enough for Bramhos to be cleared. Perhaps one test was not enough to establish all the capabilities of the missile and IA had not wanted to look foolish if perchance the third test had failed. There may be several reasons and all plausible. The point is that instead of leaving the cause to our imagination ( and ddm's ), IA should have issued some statement.
But IA is known to be silent in many issues ( for eg arjun ). This gives ddm the opportunity to write whatever rubbish they can imagine and this adds to the confusion of the general public. IMO IA needs to appoint specific people trained in PR to deal with media.
We all know the PR Skills, if any, of the IA. My beef is with posters on this forum. Over the years due to events like Arjun we seem to have developed a mentality where DRDO/Indeginisation 'Good'/Holy Grail and IA/IAF/IN (in that order) bad. Yes, we know there is a serious problem with respect to the domoestic MIC but then lets see things in perspective. Lets put things in context. And not paint the whole thing with wide brush as we seem to be doing in this case. And do we really think that DRDO or any one else will be able to gain anything by articles like one posted earlier@The Telegraph? What will this game of one upmanship lead to? Nothing, except creating bad blood between the user and developer/producer. When the missile met the parameters, the IA was upfront in acceppting the same and cleared it for induction. For a moment think from the IA's perspective: They have asked/been promised something, something which has strategic bearing on it's war fighting capability. Don't you think they'd want to be doubly sure? 1st test was a failure, we do not have clear cut yes/no answer for 2nd while 3rd was a success. So let's not simply jump to conclusion(s) and start dissing the IA with out confirming the facts.

If this (indirect media attack) is the new strategy of getting back at IA, then god save us. PR wrt asinine articles and smear campaings as in IE is something I understand, but if they now try to get even with IA/Defence Services, we will soon see a sorry state of affairs.
PratikDas
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Rohitvats, you're entitled to your opinion.

I for one am fairly certain, based on historical performance, that there are too many pockets being lined up in the military establishment with international defense procurements and it will take articles like that in The Telegraph on Brahmos to break down these cartels.

The publicity with which fraudulent financial activity in the US is being thrashed is clear for all to see. We need open and transparent processes for defense procurements as well.

The incessant escalation of requirements from the Indian Air Force and Indian Army is their modus operandi for denying indigenous development and securing opportunities to divert funds.

Enough is enough.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by enqyoob »

I was hoping to find some insights that went deeper than the article itself. This is a rather strange report, in that DRDO has decided to go to the media directly and publicize that the weapon is successful. And they actually found a media person to write on that.

Stay tuned for the Retired Admiral Golfkarnis and Retired Generals and the usual ddm to write how the project is a complete failure... and keep this article handy to deliver the jhapads at that time.

The testing progression is also interesting. Within 3 months, they went from a "factory" to a "metal plate with reflectors" as target size - and still hit "bullseye" (or, 2 put it in relevant terms, Pakizass). That's awesome.

There seems to be also a HUGE hint spelled "Raytheon" there about the usual process where the "MTCR" gets "relaxed" just as an indigenous program reaches success, in order to ward off full production.

Is it possible to find enough FACTUAL examples to nail this point in an article? I mean, I will write/ help write it, but I need facts that I cannot get by myself. I need, let's say, 5 specific case studies. Suggestion: LCA, Arjun, Chetak, Nag, Trishul, Akash, Brahmos (but there may be many other systems, not necessarily things that fly).

In the case of the Brahmos, the GOI has already spent huge baksheesh to get the Russian collaboration going, and STILL there are these strong hints of other kinds of resistance.

OTOH, the Armed Forces' interests must be fairly defended. They are the ones asked to put their lives on the line, and so asking them to accept a piece of 2nd-rate quality, as opposed to a proven imported weapon, is a tough decision, given that foreign exchange is not the killer issue that it used to be.

On the third hand, one can point to SNAFUS like the shortage of Bofors shells b4 the Kargil war, to show the dangers in depending on imports. Apparently the shortage of mountain guns and ammo continues even today, 10 years after the hard lessons of Kargil, so not much has improved in this respect.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by Surya »

The real shame is that a weapons technologist dreams of thousands of missiles and not the Army which orders for 2 regiments :(
Even we cannot do anything to it, once we launch it. Fire and forget. You think of the missile in hundreds, thousands...

In fact if this was not quoted to Pillai I might think Singha said it :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Post by enqyoob »

The big point that is lost on ddm and supporters alike, is that in the case of missiles, even testing must be in the thousands. Obviously you cannot do that with imported gizmos at $1M per gizmo, unless of course u r a paki and decide to test every single one of your missiles and bombs with yourself sitting on it.
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