Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby KrishG » 10 May 2009 16:53

Plans on to fit BrahMos missile on Su-30MKI aircraft

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200905101112.htm

..............India has sent two of its Su-30 MKIs to Russia where the airframe of the aircraft will be modified to accommodate world's only supersonic cruise missile on the aircraft's under-fuselage. ..............."The work is expected to be completed on the aircraft by early 2010 but we have not set any deadline yet for competing the programme," an official said.....................The aerial version of the BrahMos will be nine metres long and once fitted, can auto-launch itself towards the target after being released from the aircraft by the pilot.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Jay » 10 May 2009 18:36

unconfirmed reports from paan waalaa's mouth, there were two tests of Astra that took place, one with French seeker and one with Desi seeker and, the surprise is, the one with Desi seeker was a success while the one with Frenchie seeker raised a White flag and headed straight for vineyards.
Last edited by Jay on 11 May 2009 00:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby SaiK » 10 May 2009 23:10

is it one brahmos per mki, the plan?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 11 May 2009 02:38

Agni-II to be testfired soon
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bhub ... 506558.cms

Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) scientists are excited because this user trial will pave the way for the maiden test of Agni-IV that is now under development.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Anujan » 11 May 2009 04:45

SaiK wrote:is it one brahmos per mki, the plan?

Mockups at Aero India showed three Brahmos per MKI.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby John » 11 May 2009 06:05

As per the article Su-30mki willl carry only one, i believe carrying 2 more under wings was ruled out there was article on it last year IIRC. Either way the fact that airframe requires modification does not make it too feasible. Wonder if they could not achieve the weight reduction on air launched Brahmos that was envisioned originally in Yakhont-M.

India has sent two of its Su-30 MKIs to Russia where the airframe of the aircraft will be modified to accommodate world's only supersonic cruise missile on the aircraft's under-fuselage.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sum » 11 May 2009 06:39

Jay wrote:unconfirmed reports from paan waalaa's mouth, there were two tests of Astra that took place, one with French seeker and one with Desi seeker and, the surprise is, the one with Desi seeker was a success while the one with Frenchie seeker raised a White flag and headed straight for vineyards.

We have developed a Desi seeker now?

Great news if so...always thought that seekers were our biggest hurdle.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 May 2009 09:07

Just saw in Times Now that defence scientist are preparing for a test flight of Agni 2 this week , this i think is most likely to be the Agni 2AT developed under the leadership of Tesse Thomas

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby prashanth » 11 May 2009 10:27

Dr.Tessy Thomas , if I may add.
Also the newspaper(TOI) says Agni III is ready for induction, and will be based somewhere in bengal . All in all we now have Agni I,II,III.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 11 May 2009 10:37

Seems to be premeditated obfuscation in identifying the missile being tested. While A-II user trial is in order and always welcome, but equally important is to get the work horse (A-IIAT) off the mark.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rakall » 11 May 2009 10:39

Jay wrote:unconfirmed reports from paan waalaa's mouth, there were two tests of Astra that took place, one with French seeker and one with Desi seeker and, the surprise is, the one with Desi seeker was a success while the one with Frenchie seeker raised a White flag and headed straight for vineyards.


great news.. hope its a reality sooner than later.. later than never..

anymore details will be much appreciated !!!

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ChandraS » 11 May 2009 11:32

sum wrote:
Jay wrote:unconfirmed reports from paan waalaa's mouth, there were two tests of Astra that took place, one with French seeker and one with Desi seeker and, the surprise is, the one with Desi seeker was a success while the one with Frenchie seeker raised a White flag and headed straight for vineyards.

We have developed a Desi seeker now?

Great news if so...always thought that seekers were our biggest hurdle.


The IIR seeker for Nag was the hurdle we faced. IIRC, we went for a French seeker as the desi version couldn't be made to fit in the specified size/performance requirements. This was the main reason for driving up the cost of the missile.

WRT to Astra, it is supposed to use the ARH seeker. I guess we have this all squared up as part of the PAD project. So what's the French one for? Or is it some other type IIR + ARH? Any paanwala insight into this?
Anujan wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:If the "dual mode guidance" refers to ARH and IIR, it would be just soo totally cool, like wow man. Fingers crossed onlee.

CM.


The page put up by Arun-saar in BR here
Says "It uses dual mode guidance i.e. Inertial navigation during midcourse and active radar homing in terminal phase"

So looks like Inertian navigation/mid course correction/ARH terminal phase.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby KrishG » 11 May 2009 13:56

The IIR seeker for Nag was the hurdle we faced. IIRC, we went for a French seeker as the desi version couldn't be made to fit in the specified size/performance requirements. This was the main reason for driving up the cost of the missile.

WRT to Astra, it is supposed to use the ARH seeker. I guess we have this all squared up as part of the PAD project. So what's the French one for? Or is it some other type IIR + ARH? Any paanwala insight into this?

Astra doesn't use IR seeker in any of it's 3 phases. At present, MBDA MICA seems to be the ARH seeker based missile from France. Maybe, we bought it's seeker to test o Astra? Not sure.
I don't see any other possibility of a French ARH seeker on Astra. Maybe the whole French seeker thing is just a part of Doodhwaala gossip.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby andy B » 11 May 2009 16:28

This might be just a theory...but does the yehudi Derby seeker got anything to do with the Astra seeker...JMT

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Kailash » 11 May 2009 19:40

Arun_S wrote:Seems to be premeditated obfuscation in identifying the missile being tested. While A-II user trial is in order and always welcome, but equally important is to get the work horse (A-IIAT) off the mark.


Is there any information indicating this may be II-AT test?
Btw, why is there no update on the AT program for past few years?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 11 May 2009 19:48

The news report on Astra test-firing said that it was launched at an imaginary target. If so, how could an Active Radar seeker have been tested? Dont you need a real target for that?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby SRay » 11 May 2009 20:35

Prem Kumar wrote:The news report on Astra test-firing said that it was launched at an imaginary target. If so, how could an Active Radar seeker have been tested? Dont you need a real target for that?


This bothered me as well -- the whole purpose of testing an active seeker would be to see how well it detects an active target. If this seeker is fed simulated info on a target, are we not just testing the maneuverability of the missile?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 11 May 2009 22:22

Here's a question:

This article on the Brahmos says the following:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200905101112.htm

The aerial version of the BrahMos will be nine metres long and once fitted, can auto-launch itself towards the target after being released from the aircraft by the pilot


The nine meter length is of course the actual length of the missile in its current form. So this article emphasizes no reduction in size. That is on par with the design of the missile.

But then there's this article:

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20090511_air-launched_version.html

The aerial version of the BrahMos will be shorter in length than the standard land or marine versions and will have the capability to auto-launch towards the target after being released from the aircraft by the pilot.


Anybody wants to shed some opinion on this issue?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby KrishG » 11 May 2009 23:59

vivek_ahuja wrote:Here's a question:

This article on the Brahmos says the following:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200905101112.htm

The aerial version of the BrahMos will be nine metres long and once fitted, can auto-launch itself towards the target after being released from the aircraft by the pilot


The nine meter length is of course the actual length of the missile in its current form. So this article emphasizes no reduction in size. That is on par with the design of the missile.

But then there's this article:

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20090511_air-launched_version.html

The aerial version of the BrahMos will be shorter in length than the standard land or marine versions and will have the capability to auto-launch towards the target after being released from the aircraft by the pilot.


Anybody wants to shed some opinion on this issue?


Specific info from Rikshaw-walaa revealed that the fact that air launched version of BrahMos would weigh 2500 kg compared to the basic Army & Naval versions which weighed at 3000 kg. Therefore it would help us assume that due to the reduction of weight, the overall weight of the missile would go down.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 May 2009 01:03

The air launched versio might not have the solid fuel booster or carry empty case for production commonality purposes? That way all the parts are same and reduces overall costs?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 May 2009 01:32

KrishG wrote:Specific info from Rikshaw-walaa revealed that the fact that air launched version of BrahMos would weigh 2500 kg compared to the basic Army & Naval versions which weighed at 3000 kg. Therefore it would help us assume that due to the reduction of weight, the overall weight of the missile would go down.


ramana wrote:The air launched versio might not have the solid fuel booster or carry empty case for production commonality purposes? That way all the parts are same and reduces overall costs?


The weight thing is expected. That's the solid booster going out. Basically, the launch aircraft will have to fly to high speeds and then release the weapon to compensate for the lack of the booster rocket.

Nevertheless, the solid rocket booster inside the Brahmos is not attached as a separate outer case that falls off like a Ballistic missile stage. The outer length of the missile remains the same but the booster stage vacates the combustor space and nozzle section of the ramjet due to ram pressure when the booster power runs out. I think there is even a video of Dr. Pillai showing that separation on a model on youtube somewhere. He showed the removal of the solid booster from the main rocket as if he were removing two concentric tubes.

The bottom-line was that if this booster phase is eliminated, the weight comes down by several hundred kilos as expected, but the length of the missile remains the same.

At least that is what I had expected. So I am inclined to believe the Hindu report that the length remains the same while the mass reduces.

Also, if the above is true, then it should be expected that the Air Launched Brahmos will go around 300 Km with its own on board power but if the launch aircraft can launch at the very border (or even beyond) then its effective operational range should be considerably increased.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 12 May 2009 02:15

Kailash wrote:
Arun_S wrote:Seems to be premeditated obfuscation in identifying the missile being tested. While A-II user trial is in order and always welcome, but equally important is to get the work horse (A-IIAT) off the mark.


Is there any information indicating this may be II-AT test?
Btw, why is there no update on the AT program for past few years?

The last update on the subject was last years when DRDO confirmed of the A-2AT project and Ms Tesse Thomas heading that project.

IMHO DRDO is tight on sesesoned talent, the specialized talent required in missiles project takes 5-25 year of domain experience, not like IT-WyT. And that kind of talent requires motivation, that is easily killed when the job does not pay well, and to add insult to injury get fraction of the salaery that their pals in IT-WyT gets. So while there is dreath of retaining (much less attarcting) rigth talant, the manpower resources are thus very limited. India has got to do with the small DRDO team.

Pay peanuts, you get monkies to work for you.

If India thinks it needs the likes of Tesse Thomas, India must show it by making it attractive for capable Indians to meet that need. As Yankees say, "Show me the money".

India gets what it deserves.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby KrishG » 12 May 2009 02:38

vivek_ahuja wrote:
KrishG wrote:Specific info from Rikshaw-walaa revealed that the fact that air launched version of BrahMos would weigh 2500 kg compared to the basic Army & Naval versions which weighed at 3000 kg. Therefore it would help us assume that due to the reduction of weight, the overall weight of the missile would go down.


ramana wrote:The air launched versio might not have the solid fuel booster or carry empty case for production commonality purposes? That way all the parts are same and reduces overall costs?


The weight thing is expected. That's the solid booster going out. Basically, the launch aircraft will have to fly to high speeds and then release the weapon to compensate for the lack of the booster rocket.

Nevertheless, the solid rocket booster inside the Brahmos is not attached as a separate outer case that falls off like a Ballistic missile stage. The outer length of the missile remains the same but the booster stage vacates the combustor space and nozzle section of the ramjet due to ram pressure when the booster power runs out. I think there is even a video of Dr. Pillai showing that separation on a model on youtube somewhere. He showed the removal of the solid booster from the main rocket as if he were removing two concentric tubes.

The bottom-line was that if this booster phase is eliminated, the weight comes down by several hundred kilos as expected, but the length of the missile remains the same.

At least that is what I had expected. So I am inclined to believe the Hindu report that the length remains the same while the mass reduces.

Also, if the above is true, then it should be expected that the Air Launched Brahmos will go around 300 Km with its own on board power but if the launch aircraft can launch at the very border (or even beyond) then its effective operational range should be considerably increased.

This is my idea of BrahMos (basic version). The solid booster takes the missile to a certain altitude after launch and then is jettisoned. The missile then will only decent and the Ramjet will maneuver the missile to the target at a particular range. This is what I have seen on videos of the launch. As the air-launched version will be launched from a high altitude, there would be any necessity for the solid booster and would require only the ramjet for target homage.

Anyway, I had this question ever since the heard about the air-launched version. Wouldn't a subsonic air-launched cruise missile have advantages like lesser weight, higher range and better maneuverability over Super-sonic ALCMs ?? This considering the fact that the weapon-load of a particular aircraft is limited.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 May 2009 02:45

There was a discussion some time back which touched on the need for a missile with proper dimensions - to allow the MKI to take off and also land with the missile (if not used). Do not recall the details of that discussion.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramdas » 12 May 2009 02:59

Arunji,

In that case the current economic crisis is a boon at least for the short term. IT-Wity companies going down all of a sudden would mean people would look for govt jobs, and places like DRDO, ISRO actually become competitive. Looks like ISRO may get a windfall of talent in the short term. Plus with the sixth pay commission, govt salaries are not as bad as before and the jobs are secure. They should manage the windfall they are getting well. I feel that the sixth pay commission is the one and only good deed of the UPA govt.

I feel that due to the Obama anti-outsourcing stance, we will no longer see the humiliating spectacle of BPO types earning more than experienced scientists the moment they enter - at least, this phenomenon will decrease.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 May 2009 03:02

KrishG wrote:This is my idea of BrahMos (basic version). The solid booster takes the missile to a certain altitude after launch and then is jettisoned. The missile then will only decent and the Ramjet will maneuver the missile to the target at a particular range. This is what I have seen on videos of the launch. As the air-launched version will be launched from a high altitude, there would be any necessity for the solid booster and would require only the ramjet for target homage.


Actually, the missile "flies" all the way. Those small aspect ratio, mid-body wings that you see on the Brahmos are meant to provide lift. At the speeds at which it travels, those fins and the body-lift are sufficient at small angles of attack to provide flight control. As a result, a typical Brahmos profile tends to look something like this:

Image

Now in the case of the air launched missile, the initial boost+climb phase disappears to a good extent. Nevertheless, that's a small amount of fuel saved. The real advantage comes into play when the launch aircraft can take the missile as close to the target as possible (perhaps even over enemy airspace) before releasing it.

Anyway, I had this question ever since the heard about the air-launched version. Wouldn't a subsonic air-launched cruise missile have advantages like lesser weight, higher range and better maneuverability over Super-sonic ALCMs ??


Survivability of the missile against the target's defensive weapons during the terminal phase is where the Brahmos comes out on top.
Last edited by vivek_ahuja on 12 May 2009 03:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 May 2009 03:05

NRao wrote:There was a discussion some time back which touched on the need for a missile with proper dimensions - to allow the MKI to take off and also land with the missile (if not used).


That makes sense. However, a center-line mounted option is perhaps the only one possible. Even in that case, I wonder how the missile dimensions could be changed other than those of the pylon on which it is mounted...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 May 2009 03:08

Feb 2009 :: Indian air force to receive BrahMos cruise missiles in 2012

"For the airborne version...we had to reduce the mass of the missile and to ensure aerodynamic stability after its separation from the aircraft. The air-launched platform has its own initial speed during the launch of the missile, so we have reduced the size of the booster. Now the missile is ready," Pillai told RIA Novosti in an exclusive interview last year.

The Indian Air Force had chosen Russian-made SU-30 MKI Flanker-H multirole fighter as a trial platform for the missile, but it will take up to four years to complete the upgrade of the aircraft so that it can carry and launch BrahMos missiles, the official added.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby John » 12 May 2009 06:09

Solid booster is needed for the missile to attain super sonic speed at which point the ramjet takes over even air launched it would require solid booster (of smaller size) to attain such speed (for launch from Tu-142 for example).

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby K_Reddy » 12 May 2009 17:42

Here you go guy, proof reading and alterations/additions please. I know one of you took a picture of the Barak 8 mock up during Aero-India. We can use that to avoid copy write issues. I will be sending a mail to Defense-Update for the MR-SAM pic and any additional details they can provide. The article on their site is full of inconsistencies; we need to clear that up also.

The Barak 8

The Barak 8 (also called Barak NG) missile is a joint collaboration between the India and Israel to develop an advance SAM for the Indian Navy under a USD $480 million program agreed to in early 2006. This missile will form the basis of a similar system for the Indian Air Force under its MR-SAM (Medium Range-SAM) program.

The slender missile has a range of over 60 Km and incorporates a single stage thrust vectoring solid stage motor optimized for launch from a Vertical Launch System (VLS). Four forward fins near the nosecone and fore lateral fins, akin to short range Air-to-Air missiles, should provide exceptional maneuverability to engage anti-ship missiles and aircrafts covering low and high altitudes. The missile will use an active seeker for terminal guidance and will be integrated with the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active conformal phased array ship borne radar (Provided by IAI’s Elta) with support for mid-course updates through an advance datalink

The model of development will be very similar to the model of the Brahmos missile with Rafael of Israel providing the missile and India’s DRDO working on the software and acting as prime contractor. Manufacturing should also be joint collaboration by both countries. Development is expected to take 5 years.


MR-SAM

The MR-SAM program of the IAF will seek to replace the SA-3 GOA vintage with a modern system derived form the Barak 8 missile - currently under joint development with Israel for the Navy. A moratorium of understand for the development was signed between DRDO and IAI in Jan 2007. An additional USD $300 million is embarked for the development of the missile over the cost of development for the Barak 8.

The aerodynamics and possibility the motor of the Barak 8 will be altered to meet the requirements of the IAF. This will also mean an increase in the range of the missile to 70 km. The forward fins of the Barak 8 will be replaced with fins at the mid section and the missile is expected to be slightly longer. The active seeker and datalink should remain the same. The radar for the system is as yet unidentified.

The total cost is expected to be over USD $2 billion including the cost for a production run of 9 squadrons. Each squadron contains two batteries with multi-mission radar, command and control elements and 3 container-launchers with 8 missiles each in VLS configuration.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 12 May 2009 20:15

K_Reddy wrote:Here you go guy, proof reading and alterations/additions please. I know one of you took a picture of the Barak 8 mock up during Aero-India. We can use that to avoid copy write issues. I will be sending a mail to Defense-Update for the MR-SAM pic and any additional details they can provide. The article on their site is full of inconsistencies; we need to clear that up also.

The Barak 8

The Barak 8 (also called Barak NG) missile is a joint collaboration between the India and Israel to develop an advance SAM for the Indian Navy under a USD $480 million program agreed to in early 2006. This missile will form the basis of a similar system for the Indian Air Force under its MR-SAM (Medium Range-SAM) program.

The slender missile has a range of over 60 Km and incorporates a single stage thrust vectoring solid stage motor optimized for launch from a Vertical Launch System (VLS). Four forward fins near the nosecone and fore lateral fins, akin to short range Air-to-Air missiles, should provide exceptional maneuverability to engage anti-ship missiles and aircrafts covering low and high altitudes. The missile will use an active seeker for terminal guidance and will be integrated with the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active conformal phased array ship borne radar (Provided by IAI’s Elta) with support for mid-course updates through an advance datalink

The model of development will be very similar to the model of the Brahmos missile with Rafael of Israel providing the missile and India’s DRDO working on the software and acting as prime contractor. Manufacturing should also be joint collaboration by both countries. Development is expected to take 5 years.


MR-SAM

The MR-SAM program of the IAF will seek to replace the SA-3 GOA vintage with a modern system derived form the Barak 8 missile - currently under joint development with Israel for the Navy. A moratorium of understand for the development was signed between DRDO and IAI in Jan 2007. An additional USD $300 million is embarked for the development of the missile over the cost of development for the Barak 8.

The aerodynamics and possibility the motor of the Barak 8 will be altered to meet the requirements of the IAF. This will also mean an increase in the range of the missile to 70 km. The forward fins of the Barak 8 will be replaced with fins at the mid section and the missile is expected to be slightly longer. The active seeker and datalink should remain the same. The radar for the system is as yet unidentified.

The total cost is expected to be over USD $2 billion including the cost for a production run of 9 squadrons. Each squadron contains two batteries with multi-mission radar, command and control elements and 3 container-launchers with 8 missiles each in VLS configuration.

K_Reddy: Could you try to enhance the above to take into consideration the following:
1) Barak-8 is a anti-AShM (Anti-Anti Shipping Missile) as well as anti-aircraft system for the navy and its rocketery and aerodynamic configration is optimsed for said purpose.

2) MR-SAM is primarily an anti-aircraft missile with longer range, thus it sports mid body wings providing a balance between efficient cruise and maneuverability against combat aircrafts.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Gerard » 13 May 2009 02:10

Agni-II test slated for this week
The Agni-II is planned to be test-fired hopefully by Wednesday or Thursday," a DRDO official said here.

Officials also indicated that should the test go off successfully, it would pave way for the first test of the Agni-V missile, which is being developed by DRDO, officials said.
The Agni-V is intended to be a 5,000km range missile which will provide the country with ICBM capability. Design work on the Agni-V is over, according to DRDO officials, and an initial test could take place anytime before December 2010.

The work on the Agni-V hinges around integrating a third composite stage in the two-stage Agni-III, along with some advanced technologies like ring laser gyroscope and an accelerator for navigation and guidance.

The solid-fuelled Agni-V is being designed to be a canister-launched missile system in order to ensure complete operational mobility. The government has already sanctioned around Rs2,500 crore for the project.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 13 May 2009 05:06

Gerard wrote:Agni-II test slated for this week
....
The work on the Agni-V hinges around integrating a third composite stage in the two-stage Agni-III, along with some advanced technologies like ring laser gyroscope and an accelerator for navigation and guidance.
....

Lets hope they remember to replace the accelerator with an accelerometer :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby K_Reddy » 13 May 2009 10:42

Done

The Barak 8

The Barak 8 (also called Barak NG) missile is a joint collaboration between the India and Israel to develop an advance SAM for the Indian Navy under a USD $480 million program agreed to in early 2006. This missile will form the basis of a similar system for the Indian Air Force under its MR-SAM (Medium Range-SAM) program.

The slender missile has a range of over 60 Km and incorporates a single stage thrust vectoring solid stage motor optimized for launch from a Vertical Launch System (VLS). Four forward fins near the nosecone and fore lateral fins, akin to short range Air-to-Air missiles, should provide exceptional maneuverability to engage anti-ship missiles and aircrafts. It’s design is optimized to defend against AShM (Anti-Anti Shipping Missile).The missile will use an active seeker for terminal guidance and will be integrated with the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active conformal phased array ship borne radar (Provided by IAI’s Elta) with support for mid-course updates through an advance datalink

The model of development will be very similar to the model of the Brahmos missile with Rafael of Israel providing the missile and India’s DRDO working on the software and acting as prime contractor. Manufacturing should also be joint collaboration by both countries. Development is expected to take 5 years.


MR-SAM

The MR-SAM program of the IAF will seek to replace the SA-3 GOA vintage with a modern system derived form the Barak 8 missile - currently under joint development with Israel for the Navy. A moratorium of understand for the development was signed between DRDO and IAI in Jan 2007. An additional USD $300 million is embarked for the development of the missile over the cost of development for the Barak 8.

The aerodynamics and possibility the motor of the Barak 8 will be altered to meet the requirements of the IAF. This will also mean an increase in the range of the missile to 70 km. The forward fins of the Barak 8 will be replaced with fins at the mid section and the missile is expected to be slightly longer. Unlike the Barak 8, MR-SAM is primarily an anti-aircraft missile with longer range, thus it sports mid body wings providing a balance between efficient cruise and maneuverability against combat aircrafts. The active seeker and datalink should remain the same. The radar for the system is as yet unidentified.

The total cost is expected to be over USD $2 billion including the cost for a production run of 9 squadrons. Each squadron contains two batteries with multi-mission radar, command and control elements and 3 container-launchers with 8 missiles each in VLS configuration.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 13 May 2009 10:45

Gerard wrote:Agni-II test slated for this week
The Agni-II is planned to be test-fired hopefully by Wednesday or Thursday," a DRDO official said here.

Officials also indicated that should the test go off successfully, it would pave way for the first test of the Agni-V missile, which is being developed by DRDO, officials said.


So what is to be tested in Agni-II that will pave the way for Agni-V?

The only answer I can think of is the Agni-II is testing the SUM100-8 stage that will go into Agni-V. By that reasoning Agni-V will be a Agni-3C or Agni-3SL configuration.

See below:
Image..Clicky

Image Clicky

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Srivastav » 14 May 2009 04:32

I have a question for the learned saar's here

For e.g. lets take an AAM with a publicised range of 100 kms. Now does mean that the missile can go from a static point A to a Point B 100 kms away or does that 100 Km range depends on the 'n' speed of the moving launch vehicle. Also does variables like altitude, head wind etc matter.

I was just wondering if the 80 km range for astra remains same even if we launch it from the ground or do we get that 80 Km range only when the aircraft is moving at 'n' speed and suitable conditions.

The reason iam asking this is because i wanted to know if astra in its current form (without adding another stage to it) could act as a MR-SAM of 70 - 80 km range.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vivtho » 14 May 2009 14:38

Srivastav wrote:I have a question for the learned saar's here

For e.g. lets take an AAM with a publicised range of 100 kms. Now does mean that the missile can go from a static point A to a Point B 100 kms away or does that 100 Km range depends on the 'n' speed of the moving launch vehicle. Also does variables like altitude, head wind etc matter.

I was just wondering if the 80 km range for astra remains same even if we launch it from the ground or do we get that 80 Km range only when the aircraft is moving at 'n' speed and suitable conditions.

The reason iam asking this is because i wanted to know if astra in its current form (without adding another stage to it) could act as a MR-SAM of 70 - 80 km range.

Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, most range figures for AAMs assume a launch at medium to altitudes at transonic speeds against a head-on target.

WRT ground launches v/s air launches, yes there will be a drastic reduction in range when launched from the ground as compared to a high-speed launch from an aircraft. For example, the RIM-7M Sea Sparrow SAM is almost exactly identical to the AIM-7M Sparrow AAM. The AIM-7M has a maximum range of about 70km, while the RIM-7M has a maximum range of about 26km.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby kidoman » 14 May 2009 16:55


Nitesh
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Nitesh » 14 May 2009 19:14



so one part is true from the paanwalah of jay:

This was a secret mission in which two rounds of the 'Astra' missiles were tested from a specially-made ground launcher within two days.
:evil: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Gerard » 14 May 2009 19:43

'User-trial' of surface-to-surface Agni-II missile on May 19
This will be the first "training user-trial'' of Agni-II to give the Army requisite confidence and capability to fire the surface-to-surface missile on its own without the help of defence scientists


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