Indian Military Aviation

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svinayak
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Indian Military Aviation

Postby svinayak » 09 Aug 2008 03:36

JaiS wrote:Acharya,

A source for your quote would be appreciated. Thanks.

From youtube - check out all the su30 videos - serious poster discussing some tech details

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 09 Aug 2008 06:13

Acharya wrote:
JaiS wrote:Acharya,

A source for your quote would be appreciated. Thanks.

From youtube - check out all the su30 videos - serious poster discussing some tech details


:eek: :eek: :shock:

YouTube has 16200 references to the Su 30

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 09 Aug 2008 06:20

shiv wrote:
JaiS wrote:Acharya,

A source for your quote would be appreciated. Thanks.


:eek: :eek: :shock:

YouTube has 16200 references to the Su 30

not all are about the fighter.
see for example page 13: http://in.youtube.com/results?search_qu ... 30&page=13

references to the a/c steadily diminishes from this page.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vick » 09 Aug 2008 06:50

From DN
08/04/08
India Seeks Recon Helos

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

NEW DELHI — India has floated a $750 million global bid to purchase 197 helicopters for the Air Force and Army; it also plans to licenseproduce 187 more at the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

This is India's second attempt to acquire a new reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft to replace its Cheetah and Chetak helicopters. It canceled a contest last year after EADS had emerged as the front-run ner and Bell Helicopter alleged a lack of transparency in the selection process.

The procurement process will be speedy, with bids due in October, evaluations completed by December and trials to begin in February, a senior Indian Air Force (IAF) official said. Delivery of 30 helicopters a year will begin in 2011, a senior Indian Defence Ministry official said.

The request for proposals has been sent to AgustaWestland, Bell Helicopter, Boeing, Eurocopter, Kamov and Sikorsky.

In order to win the contract, vendors must offer offsets worth $375 million, or 50 percent of the value of the contract, a big jump beyond the 30 percent that is customary.
The IAF official said the helicopter must:

■ Handle various missions, including reconnaissance and surveillance; directing artillery fire; transporting troops; monitoring nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; evacuating casualties; and carrying airborne forward air controllers.

■ Operate in temperatures ranging from minus 35 to 50 de grees Celsius.

■ Fly for 3,000 hours before a major overhaul, and have a lifespan of 30 years.

■ Have a three-axis autopilot.

■ Not weigh more than 2,000 kilograms.

■ Carry rocket pods, anti-tank missiles, flare and chaff dispensers.

■ Fit aboard India Â’s Russianmade Il-76 airlifters.

■ Carry at least two pilots, four passengers and an internal load of 500 kilograms.

■ Fly from bases at six kilometers’ altitude.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby pkudva » 09 Aug 2008 11:49

From last 3 years we have been looking for Reco's Helis, and i believe this government has a take a decision before it leaves the Office. There re so many deals in pipe line which were stalled due to left pressure but now i think it can go ahead without much problems.

Either Bell or Eurocopter should meet our requirement. Secondly the deal for 80 MI-17V should also be signed at the earliest althought we have hearing from last 1 year that it will be signed but lets all hope these deals are completed at the earliest.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby namit k » 10 Aug 2008 01:22

pkudva wrote:From last 3 years we have been looking for Reco's Helis, and i believe this government has a take a decision before it leaves the Office. There re so many deals in pipe line which were stalled due to left pressure but now i think it can go ahead without much problems.

Either Bell or Eurocopter should meet our requirement. Secondly the deal for 80 MI-17V should also be signed at the earliest althought we have hearing from last 1 year that it will be signed but lets all hope these deals are completed at the earliest.

one thing is clear that left did its job pretty cleverly for chinks that is stalling many deals in wide range of arena ultimately slowing defence procurements, us relations,market slowdown, etc,afterall chinks' win on us depends on our incapability in many areas like defence not their capability exactly , for ex:1962 :!:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby clay » 10 Aug 2008 04:13

India bags $20 mn helicopter contract

HAL Chairman Ashok Baweja confirmed that an Indian delegation in Turkey finalised the deal and the initial order of three helicopters is expected to go up further. The Indian Aviation giant will start delivering the three machines within six months.

“It was a very difficult country to sell to and we have made a breakthrough. This (the three helicopters) is the first lot and we are hoping to sell more. Turkey is planning to buy more helicopters in several phases,” Baweja told The Indian Express.


This seems like a good breakthrough for the ALH after the South Amercan contracts. Things must be looking good for HAL at the moment. Future plans could include a total of 17 helicopters for sale to Turkey as per the article.

Regds, Clay
Last edited by Rahul M on 10 Aug 2008 04:15, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Edited to normal sized fonts.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2008 07:24

how many fully equipped troops can the Dhruv carry ? (not raw passengers which is 14).

I read yesterday the SH60 for all its bigger looking size has 3 crew and 12 fully equipped troop capacity. this was a in a early 1980s bill gunston book.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 10 Aug 2008 07:53

Singha wrote:how many fully equipped troops can the Dhruv carry ? (not raw passengers which is 14).



Image :mrgreen:

11 soldiers + 1 jump master

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 10 Aug 2008 11:14

Jagan wrote:
Singha wrote:how many fully equipped troops can the Dhruv carry ? (not raw passengers which is 14).



Image :mrgreen:

11 soldiers + 1 jump master


I love the confident arrogance of those men.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby pkudva » 10 Aug 2008 11:29

I would like to see the armed Dhruv as well, would put India in a complete different league.
The export Orders have really been a shot in the back for HAL,but i still feel that some where the cost has been negotiated just to ensure that we get orders anyways good that we have made a headaway in this area.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 10 Aug 2008 12:16

Jagan wrote:
Singha wrote:how many fully equipped troops can the Dhruv carry ? (not raw passengers which is 14).



Image :mrgreen:

11 soldiers + 1 jump master

Each of the SF(1-Para??) are wearing their won camo/uniform? Even the Bandanas seem to be different for different folks!!!

Btw, which year is this taken?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby neerajb » 10 Aug 2008 15:10

Excellent news to end the weekend. Congrats to HAL on bagging the deal. HAL should market Dhruv more aggressively. Nat Geo and Discovery channels should be invited to cover the Dhruv as much as they can 8) . A documentary of an hour or two on these two should be a good marketing strategy.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby JaiS » 10 Aug 2008 15:38

Acharya,

When you quote something please provide a source for the same. Thanks.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2008 18:54

aha the much desired rogue warrior look. thanks for posting that.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 10 Aug 2008 21:10

sum wrote:[
Each of the SF(1-Para??) are wearing their won camo/uniform? Even the Bandanas seem to be different for different folks!!!

Btw, which year is this taken?



Very old - 2003. Actually all of them except for the officer (right most - standing) had similar camo and bandana colors - these were the SF guys doing the SHBO heli drop demo at aero india.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby jamwal » 10 Aug 2008 21:13

Except low cost what advantage did Dhruv had over competition from US, Russia and Europe?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2008 21:26

it probably has a higher ceiling with a useful load than most out there,
esp when kitted with the new turbomeca ardigen engines.

=> parts of south america, central asia (turkey included) this bird
could wield this advantage.

turkey has been using SH60 and MH60 helis in the mountains
for their army. a suitably equipped Dhruv could probably do the
same job better.

and having been tested upto siachen base camp, we have definitive
proof for reference rather than brochure haw haw claims of some
el-cheapo test in colorado or switzerland that others can trot out.
if you recall, certain shaky claims had been made about Merlin
which were not validated later.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 10 Aug 2008 21:44

in its class, dhruv is the best high altitude helo in the world in terms of payload and handling.
a quick search of vivek ahuja's posts will turn up something more quantitative.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby A Sharma » 10 Aug 2008 22:16

From Sainik samachar

Making Indian Airspace Impregnable

He was the first Indian to fly Sukhois from Russia to India. He was part of the team during formation of the first Jaguar Squadron of the IAF and induction of Air Combat Simulator into the IAF that was first of its kind in Asia. An air warrior par excellence, he has been involved in devising air combat strategies and tactical planning. Being the supremo of all-important Western Air Command, adversaries of India would like to closely watch all the actions of such a skilled and sharp air combat leader. Among many 'firsts' to his credit, he was the first officer hailing from the North-East region to be appointed as the AOC-in-C. He is Air Marshal PK Barbora. He elaborates his broad perspectives about the area of his command and Indian Airforce to DJ Narain, Editor-in-Chief, Sainik Samachar.

Could you please elaborate upon the operational preparedness of the Indian Air Force, in general, and about the Western Air Command, in particular?

The role of the Indian Air Force and Western Air Command, in particular, is two-fold. Firstly, to secure the skies of the nation and to ensure that the Indian air space is free from any threat, internally or externally. Secondly, a combat role during a war. We have done these two jobs very well since independence. Good defence ensures good economic development. So, in a way, we contribute to the growth and stability of the nation as well.

How do you secure the skies against any threat and intrusions?

The Indian Air Force has done its job very well. Firstly, we have procured latest air defence, detection and sensor equipment and radars to pick up any threats. We have procured them from many countries including the United States and Russia besides indigenous sources. In the recent years, we have beefed up our capability tremendously. These capabilities have given us eyes which can detect any threat far within our adversaries borders. Having these eyes, we are able to identify the aircraft as friend or foe on the ground itself, forget them getting airborne. When you identify your own people, including all our civil aircrafts and international traffic, detection gets simpler and IAF reacts faster.

We work closely with the civil Air Traffic Control. We have formed a joint group of Air Force personnel and the Airport Authority, called Joint Control and Analysis Centre (JCAC). There is a 24 x 7 monitoring of Indian air space now. We want to know who flies in Indian sky. If there is any aircraft entering, we enquire about it. If it is suspicious, we first declare it as a suspect aircraft. If it is not clarified, it is declared as a rogue aircraft and, finally, a threat aircraft. Meanwhile the information is flown backward to the committee formed at the higher level for further actions and decisions.

We have an Integrated Air Command and Control System (lACCS) which integrates the sector-wise monitoring of the skies. My controllers monitor the skies from one single point. We have a very senior level officer on round-the-clock basis directing the entire operations. This integration is rapidly increasing.

Had there been any air violations in the recent past?


Yes, there have been. Not necessarily by aircrafts, there has been UAVs as well which violate the skies, either intentionally or unintentionally. We don't fully know the motives at times. Whenever we have instances of detecting signals, we take it up immediately with our counterparts to avoid any forceful action. We ensure that it is not a threat. It could be a flying club aircraft as well. We take action keeping in view all the facts and threat perceptions. We always have to ensure that innocent lives do not get lost. But we are always alert 24X7. We often scramble jets as well. This is part of standard response mechanisms of the IAF.

What is the status of Aerospace Command?

It is a Tri-Service Command. We need to get the approval from the government. Modalities are to be framed to fix up roles to be played by different Services. It cannot be operated single-handedly. It has to be operated jointly, not only by the three Services, but also from the inputs from other agencies like ISRO because satellites are needed. We must synergise all the assets of the nation to be able to get the correct picture. We have established space cell in the Air Headquarters. Army and Navy also have similar cells and things are moving in the positive direction. Government would take action on the whole set-up. To be honest, the Government has always given what we want.

There has been serious fall in the number of aircrafts and the number of squadrons have come down. Has it impacted our Air Defence preparedness?

There has been slight depletion in numbers. But the issue is whether we have sleepless nights or not? No, it is not. I am not getting sleepless nights. I am getting good sleep. And the people of India can continue to have a good sleep. Our recent acquisitions have strengthened our force level. We will be getting our AWACS. Our air-to-air refuellers have a tremendous effect on our fighter squadrons. Now an aircraft can go from Bareily to North-East and do the work and come back to Bareily without landing anywhere. We save time and energy because of our capabilities. So we have balanced out numbers. We will never allow this depletion to impact upon our Air Defence preparedness. We are ready roun- the-clock.

Enhancement of life of the aircrafts?

See any aircraft, be it civil or military aircraft, has to pass through certain mandatory tests and certain mandatory replacement of components. Only when it meets all the requirements, Air Worthiness Certificate is given to fly the aircraft. Can you imagine we are still using MiG-21s. They are almost 40 years old. But phasing out of aircraft is a continuous process. In another five years, these aircrafts will be replaced with Multiple Combat Aircrafts. We will have Sukhois, Mirages, Jaguars and upgraded MiG 27s, then we will have MRCA's. Ten years from now, Indian Air Force would be a totally different air force.

As a Fighter Pilot yourself and as a Commander of the most active command, are you happy with the kind of support HAL is providing in terms of quality and services?


Yes. But I would say I am not fully satisfied. In my opinion they should devote little bit more time for catering to our needs. HAL is taking lots of orders from commercial civil aviation firms; we feel our needs should also be better taken care of.

You spoke about your machines in detail, what about the men who handle them?

Our boys are the most professionally qualified air warriors. When my boys go abroad, they prove their mettle and bring laurels to the Indian Air Force. Our people are very good with tremendous potential. I would cite one example. Once one of our IL-76s was to be grounded for nose change. Under normal circumstances, it should have taken 12 days for completion of this work. But keeping this machine grounded for this long would have caused problems. Our men took up the challenge. They planned and executed the work in just four days, and this proves the capability of our men. Devising new techniques and maintaining an ever-ready capability and posture for extremely hazardous air maintenance roles in support of our valiant ground troops, speaks volumes about the mettle of men and women of IAF.

How about air safety?

In general, I would say there has been a tremendous decline in the number of accidents. This I would attribute to the latest acquisitions, the technology and dedication of our men. We have created an awareness about our weak areas. We have been highly proactive to tackle threat from birds. Awareness among the public also has helped us.

How effective is IMMOLS?

Very effective. It is a logistic software. One can trace anything from anywhere. Once we needed a spare part for Jaguar in Shillong. Within an-hour-and-half we were able to find the spare lying in Gwalior. We were able to make the Jaguar fly in two days, otherwise it would have taken two months to get the spare. It is a very good medium. It is maturing very well.

Lastly, if the troops are happy they work better, if they work better they achieve better, so what is your mantra for making them happy?


My mantra is if I can get an air warrior from his residence with a smile on his face and make him go back home with the smile on his face, I am successful. I think I can extract more from him or her. IAF has taken many steps to improve the working environment and living conditions. It has helped a lot.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2008 08:48

if I am not mistaken he was flying Jaguars in the early 1980s. there was a IAF show in GHY around
1984 and my aunt who went there spoke of it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Paul » 11 Aug 2008 10:54

The latest issue of AFM has an article on AWACS aircraft in service throughout the world.

According to this article, there are 3 + 3 - ILyushin-76 based AWACS platforms on order with the first one scheduled to arrive mid 2009. India paid $1.5 Billion for the first 3 and $2 Billion for the follow on order.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby andy B » 11 Aug 2008 12:10

Paul wrote:The latest issue of AFM has an article on AWACS aircraft in service throughout the world.

According to this article, there are 3 + 3 - ILyushin-76 based AWACS platforms on order with the first one scheduled to arrive mid 2009. India paid $1.5 Billion for the first 3 and $2 Billion for the follow on order.


I read that article throughly and I just cant figure out why we need to pay $ 500m more for the 2nd batch. I mean I understand inflation, and all the other factors...byt seriously $500m...... :shock: :shock: for the same 3 aircraft!!!!
What the hell's goin on?????

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Mihir.D » 11 Aug 2008 13:27

Anand Barve wrote:
Paul wrote:The latest issue of AFM has an article on AWACS aircraft in service throughout the world.

According to this article, there are 3 + 3 - ILyushin-76 based AWACS platforms on order with the first one scheduled to arrive mid 2009. India paid $1.5 Billion for the first 3 and $2 Billion for the follow on order.


I read that article throughly and I just cant figure out why we need to pay $ 500m more for the 2nd batch. I mean I understand inflation, and all the other factors...byt seriously $500m...... :shock: :shock: for the same 3 aircraft!!!!
What the hell's goin on?????



That could be for something more then just the AWACS.Have they already placed the follow on order for 3 more ? Last we heard it was still in the works. Any dates of when they will be delivered ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Philip » 11 Aug 2008 14:14

I don't know if this was posted earlier,the race between the IRSO and the DRDO to develop a scramjet,each using two entirely different approaches!Can someone post the pics please?

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.as ... st&Topic=0

A scramjet that cruises at 17290 km/hr
Saturday August 9 2008 15:53 IST
Express Features

An Indian double has caught global attention in the hypersonic race for cheap and cost effective launch technology.

Bidding for their rightful place among the world’s majors, two of the country’s premier agencies are in the advanced stages of proving scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) technology to meet their respective strategic needs.

While the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is working on the Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) for launching satellites, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is dreaming about a Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator (HSTD) to carry a range of weapons faster and farther.

Both have set a 2010 deadline. And both are in the pre-fabrication stage. But ISRO has the edge as it has already carried out a seven-second experimental combustion of a test engine. To state that both the projects are progressing at somewhat the same pace won’t be far off the mark.

But there’s a remarkable design difference between the RLV and the HSTD. ISRO’s hypersonic plane, being built at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), Thiruvananthapuram, is a winged body while the HSTD is a sleeker structure. The only common architecture, perhaps, is the air intake scoop at the front through which atmospheric air will be sucked in before oxygen is separated from it to oxidise the onboard fuel.

This is how the scramjet bypasses the need to carry an oxidiser on board. In a conventional rocket, the fuel and oxidiser are stored separately and burnt in a regulated combustion of eight grams of oxygen to one gram of fuel. But in the scramjet, oxygen is isolated from the air, compressed and introduced to a stream of fuel.

To ensure that sufficient oxygen is ingested for a self-sustaining flight, the scramjet must get to supersonic speeds before going ahead with its designated mission of launching a satellite for ISRO or delivering a warhead for DRDO.

This speed is achieved by coupling the scramjet to a conventional rocket during the initial phase of the flight. "We will mount the RLV prototype on a sounding rocket (S9). The rocket will speed it up to Mach 5 before the body is allowed to surf and suck air for onboard combustion. This process fires the scramjet and propels the payload to the desired orbit at speeds between Mach 8 and 10," says VSSC director K Radhakrishnan.

The DRDO plans to use a core-alone Agni stage (S1). The capsule containing the HSTD will ride on Agni to stratospheric heights. After the first stage separates, the capsule shifts to a horizontal alignment and opens up to allow the HSTD to skim the atmosphere and breathe air.

“We’re in an advanced stage. The shock tunnel test will soon be conducted. Our plan is to have a 400-second flight by 2009,’’ says M S Sundareshan, technical adviser at the Defence Research and Development Laboratory, Hyderabad. The DRDL is currently firing its test engine in a ground facility.

“The initial results are promising. We achieved significant thrust value,” says Sundareshan, adding that achieving hypersonic levels is a challenge that no nation except the US has met. The DRDO needs such speeds for weapon delivery at very great distances. The job is now done by Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles.

But like space rockets, ICBMs are a very costly chemical proposition. “The hyperplane can fly in at fast speeds, fire the missile or launch the warhead and return. The reusability will reduce our costs significantly,” says DRDL director Dr Venugopalan.

Cost figures in ISRO’s calculus as well. “The cost of launching a satellite using conventional rockets like the PSLV or GSLV is $25,000 to $28,000 per kg. The scramjet can reduce it to $500. This will make any nation with such a technology a launch destination,” says Radhakrishnan.

One great attraction is that the RLV can be brought back and reused. “The conventional rocket is expendable. Each stage burns out as the payload soars. But the RLV will come back after its mission,” he says.

ISRO will land the RLV on the sea using parachutes. But a project to facilitate its landing like an unmanned aircraft is on the anvil. DRDO also plans to land it like an aircraft. “We’ve a few UAV projects going where this technology is being experimented with. It can be integrated with the HSTD,” sources say.

Another frontier that scramjet research has opened up is advanced metallurgy. “We’re talking about a craft that moves at great speeds, breaks off from the atmosphere and re-enters, weathering high temperatures and atmospheric friction. There are several new alloys being developed. Apart from their use in scramjet vehicles, this research will impact the whole gamut of strategic metallurgy,” says Dr G Malakondaiah, director of the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory, Hyderabad.

India is experimenting with silica-carbon-silica and nickel-based alloys to cover the scramjet. Both alloys have high thermal resistance. A prototype using these alloys will be subjected to wind tunnel tests to gauge their strength against the vagaries of the atmosphere and beyond.

It is but natural for anyone to wonder why two Indian agencies are developing the same technology in parallel, with so much, except the sophisticated nature of the end-use, in common. ISRO insiders blame it on the absence of a pro-active culture within DRDO’s portals; the latter finds fault with ISRO’s big brother attitude.

“It’s the typical Indian defence story,” says one former top gun of ISRO. “In a way, it’s a blessing in disguise. Whoever proves it first will attract global attention. With the country inching closer to the concept of aerospace strategic forces, there will be a lot of give and take once the technology is proved indigenously,” he adds.

And the scramjet will place India in a league of nations that includes the US, Japan, China, Russia, Australia and Europe where this nascent technology is the latest scientific fad.

manoj_k_das@epmltd.com

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 11 Aug 2008 14:22

Aero India – 2009 to be held in Bangalore from 11 to 15 Feb 2009
NEARLY 600 COMPANIES FROM OVER 50 COUNTRIES TO TAKE PART

AERO INDIA – 2009 MUST SET BENCHMARK FOR AIR SHOWS AROUND THE WORLD: ANTONY
12:27 IST
Nearly 600 armament companies from home and abroad are expected to take part in the 7th Edition of the Biennial International Aerospace Exposition, popularly known as Aero India – 2009 to be held at the Air Force Station Yelahanka in Bangalore from 11th to 15th February 2009. Armament Majors from several countries including the United States, the UK, Russia, France, Germany, Italy, Israel, Belgium, Brazil, Spain, Ukraine and The Netherlands have confirmed their participation in this Asia’s premier Air Show. Nearly, 330 companies from 50 countries abroad and 230 from India will set up their exhibits over an indoor display area of 32,000 sq meters and an additional 5,000 sq meters outdoors. In addition there will be 60 chalets. Nearly 100 different types of aircraft – both civil and military, will be on display.

The first meeting of the Apex Committee was held under the Chairmanship of the Defence Minister Shri AK Antony here on Friday. Addressing the top officials from several Ministries and Organisations, Shri Antony said that Aero India – 2009 should be conducted in such a manner that it provides a benchmark for similar shows being organised in various parts of the world. He said ‘proper lessons must be learned from the past experiences of holding these shows and enough care must be taken to ensure that every participant and stake holder goes back with happy memories of the show’.

The Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) has been selected as the Event Manager for Aero India – 2009, in which there will be several new elements. Indian Air Force will bring out some of the vintage aircraft from its stable and fly them at the show. The Ministry of Defence will also facilitate interaction between the overseas original equipment manufacturers and Indian Business Houses. Similar interactions will also be encouraged between small and medium enterprises from home and abroad. Efforts are also being made to give exposure to students of technical and engineering colleges to encourage them to be part of the country’s aim of becoming a design hub in aerospace technologies in the foreseeable future.

The centre will be spending nearly Rs. 20 crores to augment the infrastructure in and around the Air Force Station Yelahanka. Coinciding with the event an international seminar on aerospace technologies will be held from 09 – 11 February 2009 by the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Aeronautical Society of India.

Aero India showcases the aeronautical and aerospace systems produced in India as well as by other living manufacturers from across the world. It provides an important forum for industry – customer interaction, generating in the process, considerable business interest in the region.

SK/ RAJ

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby namit k » 11 Aug 2008 19:45

we are experiencing same kind of thing to our defense industries to what happened to our economy 1991 and as we open up more like awarding contracts to those local industries who can make what armed forces require,they will also collaborate with major international players for R&D etc. suddenly we will get rid of rusty DRDO/HAL etc , although they will also heat up to do something fast. btw these copter deals and others are like a single gold India won in chn, still a very long way to go.
anyways drdo/hal should be regulatory bodies only to monitor growth and task achievement of local cos awarded contracts,things would be cruising then like in USA, or even better bcoz of that 'regulation'. otherwise if drdo/hal dont change themselves (although they r formulating new strategies), they should be scrapped and all deals must go to public-private-foreign partnerships in any composition that suits.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Katare » 11 Aug 2008 22:53

jamwal wrote:Except low cost what advantage did Dhruv had over competition from US, Russia and Europe?


The answer is 'Dhruv offers all the capability of competitors at significantly lower cost"

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby archan » 12 Aug 2008 07:59


AmitNangia
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby AmitNangia » 12 Aug 2008 09:00

Singha wrote:if I am not mistaken he was flying Jaguars in the early 1980s. there was a IAF show in GHY around
1984 and my aunt who went there spoke of it.


I know that he was flying MiG27s in the late eighties early nineties.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nayak » 12 Aug 2008 10:00

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=461654&sid=NAT

HAL beats competition to supply Dhruv to Turkey
New Delhi, Aug 11: Good times for India's indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) 'Dhruv' have just begun, with bluechip HAL beating competition to strike a deal with Turkey to supply three of the helicopters by this year-end.

A month after striking a USD 51-million deal to supply seven Dhruvs to South America's Ecuador, India won the contract in Turkey to first lease out two ALHs for five years and later supply one more of the aircraft, but all before December this year, top HAL officials said today.

Representatives from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) won the bid late last week, beating challenges from US helicopter manufacturer Bell and European major Eurocopter, which were among the top contenders.

"After Ecuador deal, it is now Turkey. To make inroads into the helicopter market, it is an achievement for HAL and we can now be sure that bad times for Dhruv are over," HAL officials said.

Though the HAL's bid was for supply of 17 helicopters, Turkey had agreed to currently lease only two Dhruvs in an Air Ambulance role for its Health Department, officials said.

"Once Turkey operates the Dhruvs and is satisfied with its performance, maintenance, and spares supply, they will go in for more of the choppers. This deal is one of the means for HAL to get into the European helicopter market," officials said.

Turkey also had the option open under the present contract to lease another Dhruv to augment the air ambulance fleet, they added.

"Under the Wet Lease, Turkey will use the Dhruvs for five years and later purchase the choppers outright. Though it is not an outright sale at the moment, the contract has a clause that provides Turkey the option of buying the helicopters outright after the lease period," officials said.

On June 25 this year, HAL won the bid for Ecuador's requirement for seven helicopters, making aviation history. HAL had beaten competition from Israel's Elbit, Europe's Eurocopter and Russia's Kazan in the Ecuador bid.

With that first overseas order, HAL had joined an elite group of nations including US, Russia, Israel, Italy and France in the helicopter export business.

Dhruv -- a 5.5-tonne weight class multi-role, multi-mission helicopter -- is already making waves in international air shows world over for the past two years but international sales of the helicopter have eluded HAL, until the Ecuador deal.

HAL had come very near to bagging its first international order when it bid for the Chilean armed forces contract two years ago, but was beaten to the closing line by US competitors.

HAL recently started the process of weaponising Dhruv for use by Indian armed forces. The Bangalore-based company recently announced a Rs 10,000 crore capital infusion to boost up its helicopter division.

Besides bagging the Ecuador and Turkey deal, HAL is competing in bids for international sales to Peru, Malaysia, Indonesia and others in South America.

Riding high on the success in Ecuador, HAL is now in talks with other South American countries for further export orders. It is also planning to set up a Liaison Office in Ecuador soon to actively pursue the South American helicopter market.

"We are in negotiations with a couple of South American nations for supplying Dhruv choppers. We hope to finalise the deals with these countries in a month. Two or three countries will be part of our export orders soon," HAL Chairman Ashok K Baweja had said recently.

HAL is negotiating with Bolivia for delivery of five Dhruvs and with Venezuela for seven of the helicopters in transport roles.

Bureau Report

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby narayana » 12 Aug 2008 11:05

Dhruv's sale to Peru is not reported in anywhere in recent reports. according to earlier reports,deals were made with peru and ecuador and bolivia in the line for ALH,but in recent reports i dont see any mention of Peru order,did they back track :(

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby jamwal » 12 Aug 2008 11:41

Philip wrote:I don't know if this was posted earlier,the race between the IRSO and the DRDO to develop a scramjet,each using two entirely different approaches!Can someone post the pics please?

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.as ... st&Topic=0

A scramjet that cruises at 17290 km/hr


I was looking for appropriate thread to discuss this..I hope mods don't mind.
Is it really true that DRDO and ISRO are developing this technology in competition and still making some progress as this article claims? Considering previous tall claims of DRDO and the results, I'm less than optimistic on this one. High quality alloys, sci-fi kind of engine, multi-role capability and more developed in just 3-5 years. :eek:

Except for international community "frowning" on DRDO-ISRO cooperation, is there any reason why these two organisations should not work together??
Experience with Brahmos any useful in this project?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Neela » 12 Aug 2008 13:40

All the holier-than-thou attitudes vaporise in front of money
Japanese company to resume supply of carbon fibre to HAL

Japanese firm Toray Industries Inc., the world’s largest producer of carbon fibre, which is used in aircraft manufacture, among other things, has lifted a 15-month ban on supply to state-owned military plane maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).



“So far in India, we didn’t have a large market for carbon fibre. The market is still evolving and it will grow,” said Ratan Shrivastava, director for aerospace and defence at the India office of research firm Frost and Sullivan.
On 14 July, Mint had reported that National Aerospace Laboratory, the state-run civil aerospace lab, which has transferred home-grown technology of making carbon fibre to Kemrock Industries Ltd, is in talks with Reliance Industries Ltd to transfer the same technology to Reliance.


Reliance looks to NAL to make carbon fibre


In April 2007, Japan’s Toray Industries Inc., the world’s largest producer of carbon fibre, stopped supply of the material after India tested its nuclear-capable ballistic missile, Agni 3, with the capability to strike China. Toray cited concerns over potential “dual use” in both civil and military applications.
Local production of carbon composites by Kemrock and subsequently by Reliance would reduce dependence on imports over the next few years, when production begins largely for Saras and a five-seater passenger plane designed jointly by NAL and Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd.
“In three years, we should be able to have a good industrial base for these materials,” NAL director A.R. Upadhya predicted in June.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 12 Aug 2008 13:48

IAF has been waking me up in the middle of the night for the past few days, carrying out sorties at around 11 to 1 PM

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Lalmohan » 12 Aug 2008 18:57

jamwal wrote:Except for international community "frowning" on DRDO-ISRO cooperation, is there any reason why these two organisations should not work together??


one way to spur innovation is to make such endeavours competitive. It is done often in the US fighter programmes - F16/18 being a prime example (or atleast their precursors which had to do a fly off, the F16 winning the USAF requirement). similarly many japanese electronics companies have rival teams working on the same idea. This is believed to spur thinking, not just in functionality, but also cost and other parameters. rapid development is the key, not just protracted cogitation. our engineering military complex institutions have for too long been shielded from the pressures of the real world.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 12 Aug 2008 19:29

A friend of mine is looking for Plastic Scale Modeling kits in Delhi, can anyone tell me a good shop to get them.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 12 Aug 2008 21:10

IAF has been waking me up in the middle of the night for the past few days, carrying out sorties at around 11 to 1 PM

HAL has turned into a hive of activity from last few days...
Anyone noticed whats buzzing/zooming all over the sky or is the lCA taking sortie after sortie continously?? Herad even choppers buzzing around for a long time(Couldnt look out as was held in a meeting inside!!) :x

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby pkudva » 12 Aug 2008 21:25

Paul wrote:The latest issue of AFM has an article on AWACS aircraft in service throughout the world.

According to this article, there are 3 + 3 - ILyushin-76 based AWACS platforms on order with the first one scheduled to arrive mid 2009. India paid $1.5 Billion for the first 3 and $2 Billion for the follow on order.


when did the follow on order signed??? it was under price negotiations.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jaeger » 12 Aug 2008 22:56

Tell me about it... I don't think it's all LCA... in fact, this afternoon there was a mother of a roar... couldn't make out what it was, what with all the trees near my office :cry:

I've been hearing Jags (by far the loudest fighters vis a vis the LCA and the occassional Bison), Tejas's, An-32's and once or twice extremely deep turboprops, haven't gotten a clear glimpse but is it possible that the odd Bear or May has visited namma Bengaluru?

All very exciting, esp. to a Bambaiyya fellow like me... :twisted:


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