Indian Military Aviation

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Venkarl » 30 Oct 2008 02:25

Lalmohan wrote:
SaiK wrote:cause, "we" collectively don't think its our territory. /honestly... we are not having a view of national integration anymore.. people have been totally focused on aspects that is more basic than these issues. /ot


just look at Raj-complete moron-Thackeray for proof of the above


Didn't want to derail this thread

Xposted my thoughts on the following thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4218&start=40

Regards,
Venkat

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby fanne » 03 Nov 2008 07:46

Since, we are talking about 140 Tejas, is it safe to assume that we have 140 Bisons, like 125 Mig21 converted per original contract and then another 15?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 03 Nov 2008 09:24

Radar cover for Taj Mahal
The Lankan guerrilla group LTTE's newly-acquired air capabilities that have attacked the island nation's airbases have also made India wake up to aerial threats from non-state actors to its vital installations and infrastructure.


Shabhashh DDM!! Is that compliment for LTTE or what? LTTE trying to bomb Taj Mahal from the air! :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 03 Nov 2008 11:45

Five firms in fray for copter deal
Ravi Sharma

BANGALORE: Five global helicopter majors are in the fray to sell India 197 multi-role, light helicopters, in a deal worth Rs. 3,000 crore.

Eurocopter, a subsidiary of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space company with its AS 550 Fennec; Bell Helicopters, which is offering the Bell 407; Russia’s Kamov (for its Ka-226), the Franco Italian consortium’s Agusta (which is prepared to offer either the Agusta A109 Power or the A 119 Koala) and McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Systems ( MD 520N) have been given time till December 19 to submit proposals.
To replace Chetak

Weighing less than three tonnes when armed, these multi-role, light turbine helicopters will replace the 1970s vintage Chetak and Cheetah helicopters operated by the Army Aviation Corps and the Air Force.

They will undertake tasks such as reconnaissance and observation, casualty evacuation, electronic warfare, escort duties, anti-insurgency operations and injecting and extricating personnel from the battlefield.

Of the 197 helicopters, which are to be bought in a fly away condition and via knock down kits, 133 are for the Army, while 64 will be delivered to the Air Force.

The helicopter deal is part of a mega modernisation programme which will see the Army eventually receiving 197 helicopters and the Air Force getting 188.
Offset clause

The deal also includes an offset clause, under which the successful vendor must source defence-related goods and services to the value of 50 per cent of the deal from Indian companies.

The process — including discussions on offset proposals, technical evaluation, short-listing by the Defence Ministry, hot weather and winter trails — is expected to be completed by the middle of 2010.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby K Mehta » 03 Nov 2008 12:41

I think this is more for AWACS coming rather than the Taj Mahal. For IAF the AWACS is much more valuable than the Taj mahal.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby MukulMohanty » 03 Nov 2008 18:08




Could someone explain what weapons platform do these weaponised Dhruv's have?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 03 Nov 2008 18:13

MukulMohanty wrote:



Could someone explain what weapons platform do these weaponised Dhruv's have?



2nd that. Those weapon system seem to be very thin for any good. Hope I am dead wrong.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 03 Nov 2008 18:21

IIRC, these weapons systems being tested will be eventually installed in the LCH. So my guess is, its being kept thin for that purpose (read low weight). JMT

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby MukulMohanty » 03 Nov 2008 18:28

Dmurphy wrote:IIRC, these weapons systems being tested will be eventually installed in the LCH. So my guess is, its being kept thin for that purpose (read low weight). JMT


A M621 low-recoil cannon and is combined with a helmet-mounted sight which is excellent for ground troop support. Let it be known that these cannon's are not superbly accurate but can take out 10-20 yards of general direction of fire.

8 Anti-Tank Airborne Guided Missiles-Still to be selected which begs the question which ones have been included in these photographs.

"As envisaged now, the weaponized version of Dhruv will carry “fire and forget’ air to air missiles, 70 mm rockets that can be launched in both direct and indirect modes as well as 20 mm turret guns which can be slaved to electro optical system or helmet pointing system. The high point of the eaponised Dhruv will be the anti tank guided Nag missile now being developed by the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO)"

http://www.internationalaerospaceindia. ... india7.pdf

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby K Mehta » 03 Nov 2008 19:07

THL-20 turret, Mistral short range air to air missiles have been selected, dont know exactly which rocket pods but IIRC they are European made too. The anti-tank weapon has not been chosen but I think HOT missile was being considered.
I think this does make a strong case for European chopper for the attack chopper, due to commonalities with WSI Dhruv and LCH.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vikram_S » 03 Nov 2008 21:28

dhruvs weapon systems are bought offthe shelf

how attack chopper is selected will be on basis of strict qr- quantituative requirement and then l1 tendering process

all chopper which meet qr (this could include offset and non performnce measure like logistics) and then finally cheaperst of all thse which tendered and met QR

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gerard » 04 Nov 2008 04:19

Severe pilot crunch hits training in IAF
The Indian Air Force has lost pilots at such a high rate that it is now unable to train fliers in adequate number for the new aircraft that are joining its squadrons, an audit report has found.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 04 Nov 2008 08:50

Gerard wrote:Severe pilot crunch hits training in IAF
The Indian Air Force has lost pilots at such a high rate that it is now unable to train fliers in adequate number for the new aircraft that are joining its squadrons, an audit report has found.

Am certain that things have changed from the time the CAG report was written going by the aviation sector meltdown in recent times!!!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sandesh » 04 Nov 2008 15:55

Has anyone read the latest issue of Vayu(V/2008)? In one of the articles, it is mentioned that the No.224 Sqdn flies the Jaguar now(after retirement of MiG-23MFs) and that the No.2 Sqdn was number plated years ago. Can anyone shed more light on this?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 04 Nov 2008 17:43

sandesh, I heard stories about 224 being re-raised. your post confirms it. But I am sure this happened only in the last six to eight weeks or so.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 04 Nov 2008 21:56

India reopens another airbase along Pak, China border.

India today reopened the 'Fuk Che' airbase in Ladakh region of Jammu and Kashmir, close to both the Chinese and Pakistani borders for operating larger military aircraft.
The reopening of Fuk Che, close to Aksai Chin and Siachen Glacier, was formalised this morning with the landing of Indian Air Force's (IAF) An-32 transport aircraft for the first time after several years, marking a shift in airbase's operational profile, IAF sources told PTI here.

The airbase, sources said, currently has no equipment or facility to accommodate large transport aircraft or fighter jets.
However, keeping in tune with its recent policy of making all available Advanced Landing Grounds (ALG) in high altitude areas operational along China and Pakistan, Fuk Che was made operational.

With its reopening, the country has made available a second airbase that was not in active use till recently for IAF to operate military aircraft.This May, the IAF had reopened the Daulat Beg Oldi ALG with the landing of another An-32 aircraft carrying the Western Air Command chief Air Marshal P K Barbora.

In fact, it was Barbora, who had announced just on the eve of this year's Air Force Day on October 8 that IAF planned to reopen more ALGs in Jammu and Kashmir close to Pakistan and China.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sandesh » 05 Nov 2008 07:58

Jagan wrote:sandesh, I heard stories about 224 being re-raised. your post confirms it. But I am sure this happened only in the last six to eight weeks or so.


Yeah and possibly with those newly built Jaguars by HAL. Quote from the article titled "Sanctity of Military Tradition" in V/2008 :

It is however regretful that No. 2 Squadron was numberplated several years ago and remains thus in suspended animation when this traditionally second senior most formation of the IAF should have been honoured with new generation fighters. Surely it would have been possible to give them the new Jaguars instead of to No. 224 Sqdn whose lineage is restricted to just one aircraft type in its few years of existence?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vavinash » 05 Nov 2008 08:06

Maybe the number 2 sqn will get MKI's after 8 pursoots.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby skher » 05 Nov 2008 17:02

In one of the articles, it is mentioned that the No.224 Sqdn flies the Jaguar now(after retirement of MiG-23MFs) and that the No.2 Sqdn was number plated years ago.


What is the retirement plan for the MiGs.
Are they going to be used as supersonic trainers or as testbeds?

In case of communication failures (a rarity nowadays) or overcast skies, does the tactical recon role of manned fighters still have any advantage over UAVs or satellites?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 05 Nov 2008 17:12

skher wrote:
In one of the articles, it is mentioned that the No.224 Sqdn flies the Jaguar now(after retirement of MiG-23MFs) and that the No.2 Sqdn was number plated years ago.


What is the retirement plan for the MiGs.
Are they going to be used as supersonic trainers or as testbeds?


Gate Guardians and Museum displays

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2008 17:43

I guess some will be held as reserve ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby skher » 05 Nov 2008 17:49

Kakarat wrote:
skher wrote:What is the retirement plan for the MiGs.
Are they going to be used as supersonic trainers or as testbeds?


Gate Guardians and Museum displays


That's a bit unfair to an aircraft that has reached mach 3.2.
Perhaps they are too less in number for any other role.

Isn't any rich ex-Soviet state [e.g. Belarus] interested in procuring the MiGs (a few modifications would make ém fighting fit)...we'd get some foreign exchange.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2008 17:54

m 3.2 ? :eek: that was mig-25, not mig-23.

anyway, gate guardians is on the other hand the best thing that can happen to an a/c. that way they will survive for a long time with their identity intact.
most are scrapped for metal. chances are the alumunium utensil in the kitchen of your childhood comes from an IAF fighter.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 05 Nov 2008 19:10

Rahul M wrote:I guess some will be held as reserve ?
skher wrote:sn't any rich ex-Soviet state [e.g. Belarus] interested in procuring the MiGs (a few modifications would make ém fighting fit)...we'd get some foreign exchange.
skher wrote:Are they going to be used as supersonic trainers or as testbeds?

Excuse me! But isn't the availability of spares for the outdated in the international market a potential problem here?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 05 Nov 2008 19:21

From the news reports, my understanding is there were only five airworthy MiG-23MFs when 224 was numberplated. They would most probably have been distributed as gate guardians as the IAF Museum got one of these soon after.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2008 19:36

jagan, am I right in thinking that when a type with a significant # of airframes left, some are held as reserves with the spares coming from cannibalisation ?

IIRC the soviets did something on these lines.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 05 Nov 2008 19:47

Actually thats what keeps happening till the point of retirement. More and more airframes are retired , spares canibalised to keep a select few flying. and at some point , the IAF decides the numbers are too few to make a difference. I could see this happen with the Hunter, canberra, MiG23MF. by the end less than a dozen of each were in flyable condition. The same is happening to the 23BN.

an exception was the Iskra, of which nearly 28 were flying when they were retired almost out of the blue. but that decision was forced by the unexpected shortfall in the life of the engines.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby skher » 05 Nov 2008 20:06

Rahul M wrote:m 3.2 ? :eek: that was mig-25, not mig-23.


my apologies.Mig-23 has reached speed of mach 2.3...got figures reversed :oops:

anyway, gate guardians is on the other hand the best thing that can happen to an a/c. that way they will survive for a long time with their identity intact.
most are scrapped for metal. chances are the alumunium utensil in the kitchen of your childhood comes from an IAF fighter.


Gate guardians get a lot of unpleasant bird-hits like this one.
That's only problem I have the proposition.

Anyhow,it's better than being used for target practice.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby gogna » 05 Nov 2008 20:39

More from Mr Shiv Aroor
Image


EXCLUSIVE Photos: The HAL-built Hawk AJT on October 25 :eek: :eek:
EXCLUSIVE Photos: The Intermediate Jet Trainer on Oct 25

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2008 21:16

Jagan wrote:Actually thats what keeps happening till the point of retirement. More and more airframes are retired , spares canibalised to keep a select few flying. and at some point , the IAF decides the numbers are too few to make a difference. I could see this happen with the Hunter, canberra, MiG23MF. by the end less than a dozen of each were in flyable condition. The same is happening to the 23BN.

an exception was the Iskra, of which nearly 28 were flying when they were retired almost out of the blue. but that decision was forced by the unexpected shortfall in the life of the engines.

I do know about this IAF practice.
'was asking if IAF did follow the soviet practice.

I guess not, IAF never did have the luxury of decommissioning a/c by type at the same time.
they had to keep a/c in the air to compensate for the trickle like commissioning rate.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rkhanna » 05 Nov 2008 23:25

The anti-tank weapon has not been chosen but I think HOT missile was being considered.
I think this does make a strong case for European chopper for the attack chopper, due to commonalities with WSI Dhruv and LCH.



In the past the WSI Dhruv has been shown with 2 LAHAT Quad Launchers. There is been talk sometime back of the SPIKE Missle. (DOnt know what came off it) and then there is the NAG.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby K Mehta » 06 Nov 2008 11:02

Yup, I think that is the only thing that has not been either not been finalised or confirmed. Rest of the weaponary has been fixed.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby PaulJI » 06 Nov 2008 20:23

skher wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
skher wrote:What is the retirement plan for the MiGs.
Are they going to be used as supersonic trainers or as testbeds?


Gate Guardians and Museum displays


That's a bit unfair to an aircraft that has reached mach 3.2.
Perhaps they are too less in number for any other role.

Isn't any rich ex-Soviet state [e.g. Belarus] interested in procuring the MiGs (a few modifications would make ém fighting fit)...we'd get some foreign exchange.

Belarus isn't rich, & is short of foreign exchange.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nitesh » 07 Nov 2008 09:50

good news:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 070931.htm

France offers longer range air to air missiles to India

Paris (PTI): France has offered to upgrade India's 51 frontline Mirage 2000 fighters in a "compressed delivery time-frame", which could prove a boon to New Delhi in the backdrop of Indian Air Forces' force levels depleting to an alarming all time low of 32 Squadrons.

And as part of the upgradation deal almost at the final stages of conclusion, the new Mirages would come armed with longer range Air to Air Missiles to enhance the fighters capability in beyond visual range combat.

The fighters would be armed with new MICA missiles with a range of taking on targets almost 40 kms away, almost double the range of present missiles on Indian fighters.

"The time scale of upgraded fighter deliveries can be compressed and worked out according to IAFs needs," Francois Quentin, senior vice president of the European Aerospace, Electronics and services major, Thales, told visiting Indian newsmen here.

The Paris-headquartered company is leading the consortium of four companies comprising Dassault, the manufacturer of the fighter, Snecma, the engine makers and European Missile leader MBDA, which would undertake the Mirage upgrade, estimated to cost over 1.5 billion Euros.

India and France have been in negotiations for the past two years on the Mirage upgrade and the deal almost now in final stages could be the last major defence contract to be concluded by the Government before the upcoming Lok Sabha elections.

Under the proposed deal, for which technical and weapon proposals have been finalised, 51 Mirages of the IAF will get a fresh lease of life for another 20-25 years, get an extended range of almost 800 kms without refuelling and longer range detection capability to confront and take on four to five targets simultaneously both on ground and in air.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby narayana » 07 Nov 2008 12:27

France offers air-to-air missiles to India

yes its Good to have them, pakistan is purchasing 500 Amraams with 48 km BVR for its f-solahs

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby narayana » 07 Nov 2008 12:32

IJT pic by shiv aroor

is this flying with the russian engine,and is this the same IJT that burst its tyres in aeroindia 2007?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 07 Nov 2008 12:45

narayana wrote:IJT pic by shiv aroor

is this flying with the russian engine,and is this the same IJT that burst its tyres in aeroindia 2007?


No - it is flying with the old engine
No - this is the Second Prototype


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