Indian Military Aviation

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fanne
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby fanne » 17 Jan 2009 23:06

Hey what difference it will it make if say 100 SU30MKI are seen by PAF crossing over into their airspace. Without AWACS Tthey would not know who killed them, with awacs they would know perfectly well who killed them. Some difference I say!!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby p_saggu » 17 Jan 2009 23:46

IAF leans towards A-330 as its next flight refueller

Yes, the Phalcon has the PS-90 high bypass turbofan, which provides higher thrust and is more fuel efficient than the earlier fuel guzzlers.

But the A-330 is a true intercontinental airliner, developed from the bottom up as having the endurance to fly more than halfway across the world with flight endurances of upwards of 20-22 hrs. I still don't think that the A-50 I can match that.
Besides the Airbus would have an all glass cockpit and be a modern aircraft.

This is a layman's view, vivek-ji you know much more about this, your opinions are needed here.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 17 Jan 2009 23:47

Indian Air Force to modernise, launch satellite in 2010.

BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force is embarking on a modernisation programme to enhance its capability, including putting in place an integrated air command and control system this year and launching its own satellite next year, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal F H Major said here on Saturday.

In the next few years, IAF would acquire very complex grade radar facilities. The air command system would be in place by 2009. "With these capablities, IAF can apply a robust network of sensors and enable it to conduct operations with high flexibility, which is our aim", he said.

The IAF has already redesigned its training patterns and most of its inventory would either be upgraded or changed in the next few years, he said, while delivering the Air Chief Marshall L M Katre Memorial Lecture here today.

Stating that aerospace power would increase in future, he said IAF has put measures in place as far as aerial space was concerned. "We are ready to meet any situation", he said to a query on steps the IAF had taken in the wake of heightened tension between India and Pakistan.

Asked whether a war-like situation existed with Pakistan, he shot back "I am not an authority to decide it. I am only a prosecutor to carry out orders".

On modernisation plans, he said induction of Jaguars, MIG-27s, MIG-29s and Sukhois with upgraded avionics have been accelerated.

Inter-govermental agreements for design and development of fifth generation fighter aircraft has been concluded, he said adding the LCA programme has gained momentum. The initial operations were expected to start by 2010-11,he said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Ashwin B » 18 Jan 2009 00:21

There are a few more pictures of the IAF AWACS here:
From JetPhotos.net

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby putnanja » 18 Jan 2009 00:54

IAF fighter fleet being enhanced

IAF fighter fleet being enhanced

Staff Reporter

Air Force chief says several aircraft being upgraded, airfields expanded

— Photo: K Gopinathan

AN AGENDA UNVEILED: Air Chief Marshal F.H. Major (left), who delivered the Air Chief Marshal L.M. Katre Memorial Lecture, releasing a book in Bangalore on Saturday.

Bangalore: Aerospace power, in the years to come, will be the most viable option before the national leadership as it tackles conflict situations and contingencies, said Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, Chief of the Air Staff.

Delivering the third Air Chief Marshal L.M. Katre Memorial Lecture here on Saturday, the Air Chief spoke about a modernisation programme taking place in the field of aviation, through acquisitions, upgrades, replacement and existing facilities being put to new purposes, along with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) own satellite which would be launched by 2010.

“Our fighter fleet is being enhanced — Jaguars, the MiG-21 BiS and a few MiG-27s have already been upgraded, the MiG-29 upgrade programme is under way in Russia, and the Mirage 2000 upgrade will happen soon,” said Air Chief Marshal Major.

Thirty airfields across the country were going to be upgraded with 11,000 feet long runways and CAT 2B wireless systems, according to him.


Referring to Su-30 MKI induction, which had been accelerated, he said the proposals for the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft deal was almost over, with flight trials expected in April-May. “Discussions are on with Russia over the fifth generation fighter jets and the Light Combat Aircraft programme has gained momentum,” he added.

Air Chief Marshall Major said that IAF would have 80 Mi-17s and Mi-5s helicopters by 2012-13, and that the IAF would acquire 22 attack-helicopters.

He said: “We have signed an order with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) for 38 Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) and 16 of the ALH’s armed version.


“We are buying 12 Augusta-101 VVIP helicopters and a request for proposal for a heavy lift helicopter is to be issued soon.”

Ashok K. Baweja, Chairperson, HAL, said the cold weather trials of the Dhruv helicopters were going to begin and also brought to light the orders for 260 aircraft estimated at Rs. 17,000 crore.

“HAL is going to roll out 350 aircraft by 2012 - out of which 80 will roll out this year, and spend close to Rs. 25,000 crore on design and development over the next 10 years,” said Mr. Baweja.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Katare » 18 Jan 2009 01:27

80 aircrafts this year :eek:

MKI
Dhruv
LCA
IJT
??
?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sunilUpa » 18 Jan 2009 01:34

^ MKI, Hawk and Dhruv will constitute majority of 80 aircraft.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jan 2009 02:46

fanne wrote:Hey what difference it will it make if say 100 SU30MKI are seen by PAF crossing over into their airspace. Without AWACS they would not know who killed them, with awacs they would know perfectly well who killed them. Some difference I say!!


What an ignorant statement! If ANY aircraft from India cross into TSP airspace, they WILL be detected, the issue is - will those aircraft accomplish their mission such as delivering ordnance to the designated targets? With the Phalcon, the probability of this increases dramatically.

The small AWACS and AEW aircraft that TSPAF is acquiring does NOT have the capability to adequately form an offensive. They lack high power radar and modern signal processing to distinguish targets from ground clutter and are better suited for maritime surface detection. They will most likely be unable to detect aircraft over the Himalayan ranges. If 2 IAF AWACS are on patrol and covering India's western border, safely within India (at least 200 miles east of the border), they can quickly alert IAF forward bases to scramble to interdict TSPAF aircraft and prevent them from accomplishing their mission. TSPAF AWACS will have to operate much closer to the border to be effective and in doing so, are vulnerable to attack. Don't forget the PRC AF forced down a USN P-3 recon aircraft back in April 2001. The USAF with its AWACS always monitored Soviet aircraft nearing Canadian airspace and were always playing cat and mouse with them.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Yogi_G » 18 Jan 2009 03:01

Mort Walker wrote:People use the term mini AWACS for aircraft sharing data and coordinating their tactics is really misleading. An AWACS essentially implies air traffic control in the sky with its own powerful 3D radar guiding aircraft to particular set of coordinates. Imagine a situation where aircraft are operating their radar in reduced power mode with minimal voice comms and the AWACS are guiding them to the coordinates.

Its a very powerful force multiplier. With the Phalcon the IAF and IN can successfully obliterate (with conventional explosives) the port of Karachi with a minimal number of aircraft.


Mort Walker Ji, let's take the example of the Raptor or even the MKI. With one aircraft havings its radar on steering another aircraft with its radar in passive mode to the target using the data link, in this case the former is basically a mini-AWACS by itself. The attacking aircraft hence is "stealthy" and can sneak in while the mini-AWACS is in a safe distance.

I agree just interchange of information like position, target in lock between aircraft will not qualify them for mini-AWACS, foe e.g. the MIG-31 in its initial days would not qualify for a mini-AWACS but today's raptors and MKI would definitely qualify wouldn't they? Please advice...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vivek_ahuja » 18 Jan 2009 03:22

p_saggu wrote:IAF leans towards A-330 as its next flight refueller

Yes, the Phalcon has the PS-90 high bypass turbofan, which provides higher thrust and is more fuel efficient than the earlier fuel guzzlers.

But the A-330 is a true intercontinental airliner, developed from the bottom up as having the endurance to fly more than halfway across the world with flight endurances of upwards of 20-22 hrs. I still don't think that the A-50 I can match that.
Besides the Airbus would have an all glass cockpit and be a modern aircraft.

This is a layman's view, vivek-ji you know much more about this, your opinions are needed here.


p_saggu saar, here's a brief input from my side:

The following analysis is conducted using the simplest of empirical techniques. Did the derivation on a piece of paper and transferred the analysis to a spreadsheet. Here's what I did:

In order to compare the IL-78 (regular and up-engined) with the A330, I have presented a plot of two important parameters in tanker design:
a) Endurance in hours (at cruise altitude and speed for each aircraft)
b) Offload fuel in Kg (This being the fuel that can be transferred to other aircraft without affecting the tanker's ability to go back home)

These two parameters are contradictory in that if the tanker needs greater endurance, it will inevitably eat up part of the fuel that was meant to be given to someone else.

Now, some other notes and numbers:
a) Tankers are usually designed to transfer fuel to other aircraft in two ways. The first is to transfer on-board fuel from its own tanks (wing and center line fuel cells) and/or transfer fuel from auxiliary fuel "pallets" stored inside the cargo area. for the aircraft considered, see the following data used:
---------------------------------------Primary-------------------Secondary-----------
1) IL-76 (regular / up-engined): --------50,000---------------------35,000--------------
2) A330 MRTT ------------------------110,000----------- Possible, but not considered---------

b) The IL-78 has an option for being "up-engined" with a transfer of engines from the current D-30KP-2 to the PS-90A76 with better BPR (Bypass Ratio) and performance. Both aircraft have been considered. The A330 remains with the CF6-80E1 engines for this analysis.

c) The up-engined IL-78 remains aerodynamically the same (in real life there would be some difference thanks to the thicker engine cowl and pylons etc) for this analysis.

d) All aircraft are considered at their cruise conditions and altitudes. Note here that the aircraft have to accelerate or decelerate when making contact with certain types of aircraft. For example, with fighters the tanker must accelerate whereas in case of making contact with propeller transports, they must slow down. This has however been accounted in the analysis with use of some compensation factors on endurance and TSFC (Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption). Note here that the TSFC is also applicable only to the cruise condition and has been arrived at using 1-D analysis techniques.

e) The cruise velocities of the aircraft considered are:
1) IL-78 (D-30KP-2): 750 Kph
2) IL-78 (PS-90A76): 850 Kph
3) A330 (CF6-80E1): 871 Kph

Based on the above data, the analysis yielded the following chart:

Image

Notes from the analysis:
a) The A-330 has a vast internal fuel capacity in the wings alone that surpasses the IL-78's capacity with auxiliary tanks. This puts the A-330 in a category higher than the IL-78 tanker class.

b) The PS-90 compares favorably with the D-30KP-2 engined IL-78 (current IAF fleet) in that it offers enhanced performance. Note: Phalcon has been up-engined to this class of engines. Increased range is also significant.

c) IL-78 applicable only to short range support for heavy concentration efforts or for light long range efforts. It cannot support high concentration supports at long range.

d) the A-330 maintains troop/cargo transport capability in addition to maintaining fuel carriage in excess of IL-78s carrying auxiliary tanks and no cargo.

e) At 80,000 Kg offload, six SU-30MKIs can be refueled completely and therefore supported for Long-Range Flights with full weapons load. At 40,000 Kg, three SU-30MKIs can be supported for LR flights with full weapons load. A-330 falls in the 80,000+ category. IL-78 falls in the 40,000- category.

Any corrections to the numbers used or any suggestions for improving the analysis are welcome.

-Vivek

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jan 2009 07:45

Yogi_G wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:People use the term mini AWACS for aircraft sharing data and coordinating their tactics is really misleading. An AWACS essentially implies air traffic control in the sky with its own powerful 3D radar guiding aircraft to particular set of coordinates. Imagine a situation where aircraft are operating their radar in reduced power mode with minimal voice comms and the AWACS are guiding them to the coordinates.

Its a very powerful force multiplier. With the Phalcon the IAF and IN can successfully obliterate (with conventional explosives) the port of Karachi with a minimal number of aircraft.


Mort Walker Ji, let's take the example of the Raptor or even the MKI. With one aircraft havings its radar on steering another aircraft with its radar in passive mode to the target using the data link, in this case the former is basically a mini-AWACS by itself. The attacking aircraft hence is "stealthy" and can sneak in while the mini-AWACS is in a safe distance.

I agree just interchange of information like position, target in lock between aircraft will not qualify them for mini-AWACS, foe e.g. the MIG-31 in its initial days would not qualify for a mini-AWACS but today's raptors and MKI would definitely qualify wouldn't they? Please advice...



A fighter aircraft's radar may be powerful, but not as powerful as a dedicated 3D surveillance radar, nor will it have the range of detection and receiver sensitivity. Ultimately, the value of any radar will be how well it can detect and accurately identify the most number of targets within clutter, and in this instance a dedicated AWACS wins hands down. Under any scenario, a fighter will have to go right up in to the theater of combat, and what you're suggesting may be useful in certain scenarios, IMHO, it is a waste of resource since the fighter/bomber was designed to deliver ordnance and air superiority.

I am not so worried about the 5 SAAB-2000 PAF AWACS, as I doubt they'll have the ability to detect targets in a high clutter conditions and it again has limited range and payload being a turbo prop. The 3 P-3 with the HAWKEYE 2000 AEW will add teeth to the PN by giving them improved maritime surface detection. I seriously doubt they will have the ability to detect target over land. In any case, I expect the Phalcon to play cat & mouse with PAF/PN and pick up distinct electronic signatures from all of their aircraft and quickly develop a counter measure system. India has a lot of resources with Elta & Rafael as partners. Several P-3s were delivered to the Iranians in the late 1970s and are still in service, and I'd safely bet that Elta already has counter measures for them.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 18 Jan 2009 10:57

vivek_ahuja wrote:
p_saggu wrote:IAF leans towards A-330 as its next flight refueller

Yes, the Phalcon has the PS-90 high bypass turbofan, which provides higher thrust and is more fuel efficient than the earlier fuel guzzlers.

But the A-330 is a true intercontinental airliner, developed from the bottom up as having the endurance to fly more than halfway across the world with flight endurances of upwards of 20-22 hrs. I still don't think that the A-50 I can match that.
Besides the Airbus would have an all glass cockpit and be a modern aircraft.

This is a layman's view, vivek-ji you know much more about this, your opinions are needed here.


p_saggu saar, here's a brief input from my side:

The following analysis is conducted using the simplest of empirical techniques. Did the derivation on a piece of paper and transferred the analysis to a spreadsheet. Here's what I did:

In order to compare the IL-78 (regular and up-engined) with the A330, I have presented a plot of two important parameters in tanker design:
a) Endurance in hours (at cruise altitude and speed for each aircraft)
b) Offload fuel in Kg (This being the fuel that can be transferred to other aircraft without affecting the tanker's ability to go back home)

These two parameters are contradictory in that if the tanker needs greater endurance, it will inevitably eat up part of the fuel that was meant to be given to someone else.

Now, some other notes and numbers:
a) Tankers are usually designed to transfer fuel to other aircraft in two ways. The first is to transfer on-board fuel from its own tanks (wing and center line fuel cells) and/or transfer fuel from auxiliary fuel "pallets" stored inside the cargo area. for the aircraft considered, see the following data used:
---------------------------------------Primary-------------------Secondary-----------
1) IL-76 (regular / up-engined): --------50,000---------------------35,000--------------
2) A330 MRTT ------------------------110,000----------- Possible, but not considered---------

b) The IL-78 has an option for being "up-engined" with a transfer of engines from the current D-30KP-2 to the PS-90A76 with better BPR (Bypass Ratio) and performance. Both aircraft have been considered. The A330 remains with the CF6-80E1 engines for this analysis.

c) The up-engined IL-78 remains aerodynamically the same (in real life there would be some difference thanks to the thicker engine cowl and pylons etc) for this analysis.

d) All aircraft are considered at their cruise conditions and altitudes. Note here that the aircraft have to accelerate or decelerate when making contact with certain types of aircraft. For example, with fighters the tanker must accelerate whereas in case of making contact with propeller transports, they must slow down. This has however been accounted in the analysis with use of some compensation factors on endurance and TSFC (Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption). Note here that the TSFC is also applicable only to the cruise condition and has been arrived at using 1-D analysis techniques.

e) The cruise velocities of the aircraft considered are:
1) IL-78 (D-30KP-2): 750 Kph
2) IL-78 (PS-90A76): 850 Kph
3) A330 (CF6-80E1): 871 Kph

Based on the above data, the analysis yielded the following chart:

Image

Notes from the analysis:
a) The A-330 has a vast internal fuel capacity in the wings alone that surpasses the IL-78's capacity with auxiliary tanks. This puts the A-330 in a category higher than the IL-78 tanker class.

b) The PS-90 compares favorably with the D-30KP-2 engined IL-78 (current IAF fleet) in that it offers enhanced performance. Note: Phalcon has been up-engined to this class of engines. Increased range is also significant.

c) IL-78 applicable only to short range support for heavy concentration efforts or for light long range efforts. It cannot support high concentration supports at long range.

d) the A-330 maintains troop/cargo transport capability in addition to maintaining fuel carriage in excess of IL-78s carrying auxiliary tanks and no cargo.

e) At 80,000 Kg offload, six SU-30MKIs can be refueled completely and therefore supported for Long-Range Flights with full weapons load. At 40,000 Kg, three SU-30MKIs can be supported for LR flights with full weapons load. A-330 falls in the 80,000+ category. IL-78 falls in the 40,000- category.

Any corrections to the numbers used or any suggestions for improving the analysis are welcome.


i have one doubt about A-330. The internal fuel capacity is 110 tons (in wings) which can be further increased with underfloor tanks. and all this would not affect its cargo carrying capacity of 43 tons.

So that means it total fuel+cargo is 153 tons+fuel in underfloor tanks.
Additional cargo carrying capacity of A-330 can be descisive when compared to IL-78M.

The Ilyushin can carry 138 tons fuel with 105 tons transferrable.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Yogi_G » 18 Jan 2009 11:15

A fighter aircraft's radar may be powerful, but not as powerful as a dedicated 3D surveillance radar, nor will it have the range of detection and receiver sensitivity. Ultimately, the value of any radar will be how well it can detect and accurately identify the most number of targets within clutter, and in this instance a dedicated AWACS wins hands down. Under any scenario, a fighter will have to go right up in to the theater of combat, and what you're suggesting may be useful in certain scenarios, IMHO, it is a waste of resource since the fighter/bomber was designed to deliver ordnance and air superiority.


Mort Ji you are right about the difference in capabilities between the AWACS radar and the fighter/bomber radar. But my point was more to back the "mini-AWACS" term being appropriate in the context of some fighter/bombers....

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jan 2009 12:04

The discussion about the Phalcon should go in the following thread:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3040&start=320

But my point was more to back the "mini-AWACS" term being appropriate in the context of some fighter/bombers....

What you're talking about is secure data links between aircraft. AWACS = Airborne Warning & Control System. The term includes secure a-a data links along with 3D 360 degree surveillance.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 18 Jan 2009 13:49

“Our fighter fleet is being enhanced — Jaguars, the MiG-21 BiS and a few MiG-27s have already been upgraded, the MiG-29 upgrade programme is under way in Russia, and the Mirage 2000 upgrade will happen soon,” said Air Chief Marshal Major.

I was under the impression that M-2000 upgrades were also signed and already underway?

Mort-ji,
Are the 3 P-3Cs with HAWKEYEs confirmed deliveries to PN? I only recall reading articles mentioning the possibility of such a deal!!!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Daedalus » 18 Jan 2009 21:53

LCH's maiden flight trail in May-June

Bangalore, Jan 17: The first flight of the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) will be conducted in May-June, defence major Hindustan Aeronautics Limited Chairman, Ashok Baweja said.

HAL had earlier fixed the trials during last March, but postponed it.

"We took up LCH project two years ago. We had exciting results. First flight will take place in May-June," the HAL Chairman said in his address at the Air Chief Marshal L M Katre Memorial Lecture here.

HAL has got orders for 260 aircraft valued at Rs 17,000 crore and at least 80 aircraft will roll out from its hangars this year, he said.

Dhruv helicopter will undergo cold weather trails from today, Baweja said.

HAL, which is a USD two billion company now, plans to double its revenues in the coming two years and touch USD 11 billion by 2011, he said.

The company has decided to spend Rs 25,000 crore on development and design activities and to produce 350 aircraft by 2012, Baweja said.

HAL is working on a navigation system and development of indigenous cockpit and cabin fibre, he said.

It was creating technology parks within its factories to promote private participation in production of equipment, Baweja said.


I would like to see how this baby performs. I believe that this is a platform, if made right, will be useful for the army in J&K area. But only time will tell if LCH is destined to meet the same fate as Arjun.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 18 Jan 2009 21:59

"We took up LCH project two years ago. We had exciting results. First flight will take place in May-June," the HAL Chairman said in his address at the Air Chief Marshal L M Katre Memorial Lecture here.

but HAL showed LCH mockup in 2003.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_225.shtml
One of the higher profile exhibits and perhaps the most significant,was the full scale mockup of HAL's latest project - the Light combat helicopter (LCH), the gunship variant of the Dhruv. IAF ACM S Krishnaswamy, committed to grant Rs 300 crore (Rs 3 billion) to HAL for designing and developing the Light Combat Helicopter in the next 24 months. HAL has now promised to deliver the LCH by the the next Aero-India show in 2005.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya G » 18 Jan 2009 22:35

Last edited by Jagan on 19 Jan 2009 01:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: inlining doesnt work on blogger images

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby MukulMohanty » 19 Jan 2009 16:38

I want to upload some pdf's of the India's Airpower Journal. Could someone please provide me with some instructions. Thanks.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 19 Jan 2009 16:45

mukul, try uploading on ifile.it

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby MukulMohanty » 19 Jan 2009 17:44

Rahul M wrote:mukul, try uploading on ifile.it



Nope, sorry that one ain't working. Any other suggestions?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 19 Jan 2009 18:37


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jagan » 19 Jan 2009 18:47

try scribd.com its makes it easier to read online. Also you may not want to duplicate the effort. their site already has a few issues online as PDFs

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby MukulMohanty » 19 Jan 2009 19:22

Jagan wrote:try scribd.com its makes it easier to read online. Also you may not want to duplicate the effort. their site already has a few issues online as PDFs



Ok, uploaded now what? Sorry for being such a pain. Thanks.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 19 Jan 2009 20:11

i am not sure if this was posted, some articles from Journal of Air Power and Space Studies are availaible in their website.
http://www.aerospaceindia.org/journals.htm

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 19 Jan 2009 22:34

Indian Air Force gets its first woman navigator.

New Delhi (IANS): Seventy-five years after its formation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has finally broken the gender barrier with a young woman reaching out to the skies as its first woman flying officer. Kavita Barala logs in another first this Jan 26 when, in a moment for posterity, she salutes India's first woman president Pratibha Patil.

Barala, who is from Jaipur, is determined to add more firsts to her career. The determined young officer has her sights set on learning to navigate the frontline fighter jet Sukhoi-30 and becoming the first female co-pilot of a multi-role aircraft.

Barala's story is one of grit and determination. Though the choice of becoming a navigator in the IAF was open to women since they were inducted into the force a decade-and-a-half ago, no one had opted for the branch till now.

"When I joined the Air Force Academy at Dundigal (Andhra Pradesh), I came to know that no woman has opted to become a navigator, so I decided to take the plunge. I completed my training successfully and became a navigator," Barala told IANS.

The navigator's job is challenging. The navigator has to be aware of the aircraft's position at all times. The responsibilities include planning the journey, advising the pilot of the estimated timing to destinations while en route, and ensuring that hazards are avoided.

Standing at a mere 5.3 feet, Barala personifies the generation of Indian women who want to fly high in the sky.

She completed her training as navigator in 2008 for AN-32 transport aircraft and is currently undergoing training for navigating during bombing and relief operations at the Agra air base.

"Once my training is over I would like to get training for navigating Sukhoi-30," said Barala, who is in her early 20s.

After she trains to navigate Sukhoi multi-role fighter aircraft, she will become the first Indian woman to sit as co-pilot in the cockpit of the fighter jet.

Barala's decision has inspired other women to follow suit. Two women in her batch have opted for navigation.

"After me, two more women have opted to be navigators," Barala said.

The IAF currently has 784 women officers who work in all branches, barring the fighter stream.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2009 08:52

A330 is definitely the way to go if we want to keep support for expeditionary ops, low footprint of refueling unit inventory (more bang/ac) and long range maritime strike.

I have always claimed A330/340 is also more suited to the NEACP mission for
India than the relatively small B737-800. with a heavy payload of mission
electronics and staff onboard, I kind of doubt its endurance...better to have
organic high loiter time than depend on scarce refuelers pulled back from feeding fighters. at best the current 737-800 we purchased is for peacetime
travel for the PM.

PRC has purchased a few 767 for similar role - they always plan big.

amirkhan will probably run with a KC-777 when the dust settles or crawl back to
A330. they need to deploy squadrons of fighters across continents and oceans.

ajay_ijn
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 20 Jan 2009 09:01

India declines Rafaels offer to develop an operational data link (ODF) for Indian air force at free of cost, IAIs bid chosen
NEW DELHI - The Indian Defence Ministry has rejected Israeli firm Rafael's offer to develop an operational data link (ODL) for the Indian Air Force fighter fleet free of charge, instead awarding the contract to Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), which bid $4.2 million.

Both companies bid on the project in response to a global tender issued in 2006. U.S. company Lockheed Martin bid $8 million. All three vendors were technically qualified in their bids and went through trials over the last two years.

A senior Defence Ministry official said Rafael's offer could not be technically accepted because there was no value consideration, and IAI's had to be considered the lowest bid. Some bureaucrats, however, favored the Rafael offer.

Defence Ministry sources said the decision also was based on security considerations as the ODL will be a secretive solution, and giving it to Rafael for free would not have appeared ethical.

The senior ministry official added that the ODL is only for a pilot project for the Air Force's network-centric warfare program, adding that there will be repeat orders given to IAI, which will include transfer of technology.

The ODL is the first stage in the Air Force's ambitious plan to create a network-centric warfare capability with advanced data and voice networking over the next 10 years, a senior Air Force official said. The system will enable units to share critical information, including data from the battlefield, allowing speedier decisions.

In the ODL pilot project, the Air Force plans to network selected aircraft and ground stations to obtain experience in developing standard operating procedures, integrating platform mission computers and training operational and maintenance personnel.

The ODL network-centric warfare program will be carried out in phases, and the entire program is scheduled to be operational by 2012. Under this project, fighter aircraft; transport aircraft; helicopters; surveillance platforms, including the Advanced Warning and Control Systems being acquired from Israel; UAVs; and space and ground radars will be networked. These Air Force assets will be looped into the main network-centric warfare project, the Aerospace Planning and Execution system.

why would Rafael develop it for free.

sum
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 20 Jan 2009 09:20

NEW DELHI - The Indian Defence Ministry has rejected Israeli firm Rafael's offer to develop an operational data link (ODL) for the Indian Air Force fighter fleet free of charge, instead awarding the contract to Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), which bid $4.2 million.

The article seems to be a plant by Rafael. Why would anyone offer anything free, esp the Israelis of all people?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby m mittal » 20 Jan 2009 10:52

Any updates about HJT-36.

There was a news a while ago that three AL-55I engines have arrived in India and now getting integrated into PV-1. First flight was expected in mid January.

Another part of that news was AL-55I engines were 200 kgs heavier that what was promised and NPO Saturn has some ideas to best cut the weight by 100 kgs.

Does any one has any updates or more info on these issues??

Link for that News article is here: http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/28/stories ... 600900.htm

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nikhil T » 20 Jan 2009 12:26

India declines Rafael's offer of free Data Link for fighter fleet

The ODL is the first stage in the Air Force's ambitious plan to create a network-centric warfare capability with advanced data and voice networking over the next 10 years, a senior Air Force official said. The system will enable units to share critical information, including data from the battlefield, allowing speedier decisions.

In the ODL pilot project, the Air Force plans to network selected aircraft and ground stations to obtain experience in developing standard operating procedures, integrating platform mission computers and training operational and maintenance personnel.

The ODL network-centric warfare program will be carried out in phases, and the entire program is scheduled to be operational by 2012. Under this project, fighter aircraft; transport aircraft; helicopters; surveillance platforms, including the Advanced Warning and Control Systems being acquired from Israel; UAVs; and space and ground radars will be networked. These Air Force assets will be looped into the main network-centric warfare project, the Aerospace Planning and Execution system.

SriSri
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SriSri » 20 Jan 2009 12:45


If I am not mistaken Rafael is (was?) directly managed by the Israel government. An obvious decision by our babus keeping that in mind me thinks.

Yusuf
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Yusuf » 20 Jan 2009 13:21

Beats me. Why would you not want something for free? Just because they didnt write a figure in the Rate column of the tender, they rejected the offer? Rafael should have put in a nominal amount of $1.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 20 Jan 2009 13:31

yusuf, it can't be for free. if it is, it's likely for a lemon.
remember what happened to the freebie navy was getting from russia ? how much will we end up paying for it ?

this free business is nothing but a sales gimmick.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Yusuf » 20 Jan 2009 13:49

Rahul M wrote:yusuf, it can't be for free. if it is, it's likely for a lemon.
remember what happened to the freebie navy was getting from russia ? how much will we end up paying for it ?

this free business is nothing but a sales gimmick.


Understand that. But this was global tender. Gorshkov was govt to govt deal. not a tender.
Rafael probably had some other future business in mind while giving this system for free.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 20 Jan 2009 14:38

Yusuf wrote:Beats me. Why would you not want something for free? Just because they didnt write a figure in the Rate column of the tender, they rejected the offer? Rafael should have put in a nominal amount of $1.



If they take it and if it works - fine. But if it fails to meet expectations then heads will roll and the heads that accepted the free offer will be accused of taking a bribe. I would make that accusation. Hence "ethical considerations"

Yusuf
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Yusuf » 20 Jan 2009 16:56

You will not take any crap even if it was free. But then they participated in a tender which has certain technical reqs which have to be met. So its not that they will say we are offering donkeys for free when our requirement is for horses.

Im sure the offer to do it free was given keeping in mind certain future contracts in mind.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby HariC » 20 Jan 2009 20:05



Look dude, I appreciate your efforts and I dont want to threadcrap but whats the point in uploading only the covers? those and the table of contents are anyway available on their website.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby kidoman » 21 Jan 2009 12:14

IAF pilot killed in Surya Kiran plane crash in Karnataka

TOI Link


A real sad day for us..
First came the news of Brahmos failure and now this, which hurts much more..
Last edited by kidoman on 21 Jan 2009 14:04, edited 2 times in total.


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