Indian Military Aviation

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 07 Nov 2008 14:13

Kakarat wrote: No - this is the Second Prototype

Any idea about the 1st prototype and if it is in flying condition or not

?

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 07 Nov 2008 14:33

Avinandan wrote:[
Any idea about the 1st prototype and if it is in flying condition or not ?

IJT pic

This is the pic of the IJT that crashed at aero india 2007,this pic is dated june 2008,so i think it should be in flying condition by now

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 07 Nov 2008 14:39

Avinandan wrote:
Kakarat wrote: No - this is the Second Prototype
Any idea about the 1st prototype and if it is in flying condition or not ?

It is in flying condition and being fitted with new engine

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/06/ ... money.html
http://bp3.blogger.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/SF8 ... 180157.JPG

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 07 Nov 2008 21:12

IAF rescue operations in Arunachal Pradesh
Shillong, Nov 07: Over 300 people have been evacuated and around 100 tonnes of essential items lifted by Indian Air Force (IAF) during rescue operations in the calamity hit areas of Arunachal Pradesh.

"The IAF helicopter operations, that started on October 30, would continue till the communication was restored," a statement issued by IAF Public Relations Officer RK Sisodia here said.

Heavy rains due to cloud burst in the Upper Kameng sector of Arunachal washed off large tracts of roads and ridges between Tenga and Birpur.

The extensive damage to communication links left hundreds of people including tourists, stranded, while transportation of essential supplies came to a grinding halt, the statement added.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 07 Nov 2008 21:49

from: http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2008-11 ... 319453.htm

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 08 Nov 2008 12:27

Colours for AFTC
November 7, 2008

Bangalore : The Air Force Technical College (AFTC), Indian Air Force will be presented the 'President's Colours' by Pratibha Patil here on November 12.

This was announced by Air Commodore Rajiv Mittal, commandant of the IAF at a press meet at AFTC, Jalahalli on Thursday.

It will be presented by President Patilfor AFTC’s dedicated service to the IAF.

Mrs Patil will also award the ‘President’s Standard’ to the 59 squadron of the IAF. The squadron took active part in 1971 Indo-Pak war as a operational flying unit.

A ceremonial flypast by newly inducted hawk aircraft and helicopters is also expected on he occasion. President Patil will release a special first day cover to mark the special event.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 09 Nov 2008 06:47

PAK FA prototype supposedly from video shown by saturn while hawking engines

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... 8&page=807

awesome if true

it does look like leaked artist image on saturn website

final shape will of course change
just look at su-27!!!

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 09 Nov 2008 07:16

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Can someone confirm the amount India's paying for the Mirage 2000 upgrade deal with France? We've all seen contradicting reports

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jan/23m ... 20Jan%2008

A multi-billion Euro deal to upgrade India's ageing 52 Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft would be the highlight of the visit of French president Nicholas Sarkozy in New Delhi from Friday.

Under the deal, worth 1.5 billion Euros cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security, the Indian Mirages would be upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 levels as flown by the French Air Force.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 023458.cms

NEW DELHI: India is moving towards signing a big contract with France for the upgrade of the 51 Mirage-2000 fighter jets in the IAF combat fleet,which comes after a $964 million deal was inked with Russia to upgrade 63 MiG-29s.

The bone of contention between India and France for the Mirage-2000 upgrade, however, remains the huge cost of the deal, which is in the region of 1 billion Euro.

I've also seen figures of $1bn for this deal.
The cost comes out to be ~30 million euros ( ~ USD 39 million) at Euro 1.5bn and is ~26 million Dollars for a 1bn euro deal.

Can any of the gurus elaborate why the price is so high when the radar/engine is not even being changed?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Nov 2008 09:09

pakfa from the looks like JSF copy, except a back Sukhoi look, with its large emitting exhausts.

btw, after obama's paki-centric attitude thus far, jsf or even Super hornets have taken a back seat for mmrca contract.

Rafale and LCA might share the same engines in the future.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 09 Nov 2008 09:20

nikhil_t wrote:Can any of the gurus elaborate why the price is so high when the radar/engine is not even being changed?

The link you posted mentions this

The upgradation will involve advanced radars, avionics and arming them with air-to-air missiles with longer reach beyond visual range.

So the radars ARE being changed! And correct me if i'm wrong guys, the main barometer of an aircraft's life is its engine. So if the operational life of the M2Ks are being enhanced by a good 25 years, the engines must be undergoing some kind of overhaul, if not being completely changed.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 09 Nov 2008 09:48

SaiK wrote:pakfa from the looks like JSF copy, except a back Sukhoi look, with its large emitting exhausts.

btw, after obama's paki-centric attitude thus far, jsf or even Super hornets have taken a back seat for mmrca contract.

Rafale and LCA might share the same engines in the future.

Regarding PAK-FA's design, i share your views. i believe much study and research has gone into the designs of the Raptor and JSF, which do look similar at first glance. So there must be something unique about that design that has made it the optimum design as far as 'stealth by design' is concerned. So no surprise that the Russians have gone for something similar. Trivia: IIRC, the Mig-29s and Su-27 Flanker family are both inspired by a common aerodynamics study, so a little similar by design as well.

Obama's recent antics have exhibited different hues. Though his (extra) attention to Kashmir is a concern, the brouhaha over not calling on MMS can be seen in a different light. It seems he wants to get something out of Pakistan and is rather OK with India. And i also recall MMS, on his recent trip to the US he met up with Palin and gave Obama a miss. Not justifying Obama here though!

Regarding the M88s for LCA, isn't it too late for that now? Atleast for the first 40 LCAs. The feasibility study has already been carried out for LCA using 2 versions of GE-404s, GE-414, EJ2000 and now the Kaveri. Doesn't bringing the M88s into the picture complicate things a bit here or turn back the clock?

malushahi · Post by **malushahi** » 09 Nov 2008 10:05

Kakarat wrote:Heavy rains due to cloud burst in the Upper Kameng sector of Arunachal washed off large tracts of roads and ridges between Tenga and Birpur.

Maybe OT, but relevant to the news:

Isn't the SW monsoon long over? Do we have cloudbursts in local weather systems?
Serious physical geography/climatology type replies only.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Nov 2008 11:25

nikhil_t wrote: Can any of the gurus elaborate why the price is so high when the radar/engine is not even being changed?

The radar is being changed. its going to be the RDY-2, which has better A2G modes, including a high-resolution synthetic aperture radar (SAR) imaging mode with a moving target indicator (MTI) capability to provide an all-weather, day/night targeting capability. Its got low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) operation, which basically means that the output pattern varies in a seemingly random pattern that prevents an adversary RWR from recognizing that it has been targeted. (really handy feature IMO)

Then there's the Modular Data Processing Unit (MDPU) designed for the Rafale, a new Thales Totem 3000 INS with ring-laser gyros and GPS capability, providing much greater accuracy, higher reliability, and shorter alignment time replaces the older ULISS 52 system. It works in conjunction with a terrain-following system. ALso, it should have the ICMS Mk.3 digital countermeasures suite. An on-board oxygen generation system (OBOGS).
The cockpit will be updated as well, with larger color displays and other modernizations. Add to that, the Thales Topsight helmet-mounted display / sighting system which is what the IN MiG-29Ks have.

all in all, they will be upgraded to a very capable Mirage-2000-5 Mk.2 level.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » 11 Nov 2008 12:16

3D view of cockpit of the Airbus 380. Worth checking it out.
http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm

Alfie.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 12 Nov 2008 00:32

Indian Air Force fly in to see Hercules in action

HIGH flyers from RAF Lyneham have been sharing their airbourne expertise with their Indian counterparts.

Two officers from the Indian Air Force visited RAF Lyneham to see how the Wiltshire base operates the J–Type Hercules, of which it has ordered six.

Wing Commander Mansij Lal and Wing Commander Simranpal Singh Birdi got to see all aspects of Hercules’ operational work.

As well as night and day time flying operations they also got to experience low level flying in a Hercules and were there during a number of air drops.

RAF Lyneham’s station commander, Group Captain Mike Neville, said: “We were delighted that we were able to share our experiences of air transport operations with the Indian Air Force and hope that this will be the start of a fruitful relationship with a fellow J-Type Hercules operator.”

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 12 Nov 2008 07:18

Indian Express
Mirage upgrade shouldn’t wait till LS polls: France
Rakesh Sinha
Posted: Nov 07, 2008
(The writer is in France as part of a media group invited by Thales)

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 12 Nov 2008 07:58

Juggi G wrote:Indian Express
Mirage upgrade shouldn’t wait till LS polls: France
Rakesh Sinha
Posted: Nov 07, 2008
(The writer is in France as part of a media group invited by Thales)

Oye Juggi Papey
Desi gets his phirst phoren tour he starts singing praises of bestern company like a tota. Lets ask him if he likes a balushahi ka nashta.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 12 Nov 2008 11:46

from: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/ph ... dia-1.html

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 12 Nov 2008 12:48

MIG-21 crashes in Assam, pilots safe
12 Nov 2008, 1201 hrs IST, PTI
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 703345.cms

SIBSAGAR (Assam): A MIG-21 trainer fighter aircraft of Indian Air Force crashed in upper Assam's Sibsagar district this morning but the two pilots bailed out safely.

The MIG crashed at Mathurapur near Gariapathar at about 10.45 am within three minutes of flying from Chabua airbase in Dibrugarh district, IAF sources said.

Squadron Leader Subhandeep and Wing Commander Nanda, the two pilots of the MIG jet aircraft, ejected and landed safely with the help of their parachutes, the sources said.

Air Force and police officers have rushed to the spot and are investigating, they said.

MIG-21 aircraft are commonly derided as "Flying Coffin" because of the frequent accidents involving the planes and the casualties suffered.

Are these the mongol version ? Why are we still using the MiGs ? What about the training on Hawks ?

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 12 Nov 2008 12:53

Nayak wrote:Are these the mongol version ? Why are we still using the MiGs ? What about the training on Hawks ?

Yes it was the mongol version. And unit type conversion training would still be dependent on the actual two seater version of the same aircraft, even if hawks were available.

-Vivek

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 12 Nov 2008 13:20

India to upgrade 9 airbases along Pakistani border

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg7_12

NEW DELHI: India has planned to upgrade nine airbases falling under its Western Air Command along the Pakistani border. Hindan airbase, near the capital, will be the first to be equipped with advanced electronic gadgets enabling it to operate all types of aircrafts including fighters and transport fleets. According to media report, Western Air Command chief Air Marshal Pranab Kumar Barbora said nine airbases would be modernised in accordance with the Modernisation of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) programme. In total, the Indian Air Force will upgrade 39 of its airfields in India as it is going to induct 126 multi-role aircrafts in five years. Since these aircrafts would have modern avionics, the ground systems would have to be compatible with it. C-130J Hercules transport planes would also be operated from Hindan airbase. app

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 12 Nov 2008 13:22

Yesterday, I saw couple of Mirages doing rounds.
Any idea what they are doing here in Pune

?

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 12 Nov 2008 13:37

Avinandan wrote:Yesterday, I saw couple of Mirages doing rounds.
Any idea what they are doing here in Pune ?

Maybe Snooping for a Good Place for a Rave Party

kidoman · Post by **kidoman** » 12 Nov 2008 15:44

Nayak wrote:
India to upgrade 9 airbases along Pakistani border

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg7_12

NEW DELHI: India has planned to upgrade nine airbases falling under its Western Air Command along the Pakistani border. Hindan airbase, near the capital, will be the first to be equipped with advanced electronic gadgets enabling it to operate all types of aircrafts including fighters and transport fleets. According to media report, Western Air Command chief Air Marshal Pranab Kumar Barbora said nine airbases would be modernised in accordance with the Modernisation of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) programme. In total, the Indian Air Force will upgrade 39 of its airfields in India as it is going to induct 126 multi-role aircrafts in five years. Since these aircrafts would have modern avionics, the ground systems would have to be compatible with it. C-130J Hercules transport planes would also be operated from Hindan airbase. app

How come the indian media donot cover these news while pakis do???

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 12 Nov 2008 16:10

As a matter of fact, i remember reading about some western company (i think Siemens) getting a contract to upgrade about 40 airbases to international standards. Will try and post the link if i get my hands on it.

Edit: http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2008-11-1 ... 5news.html

GOI : http://tenders.gov.in/innerpage.asp?cho ... 995&work=1

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Nov 2008 21:30

Avinandan wrote:Yesterday, I saw couple of Mirages doing rounds.
Any idea what they are doing here in Pune ?

Maybe for a small friendly encounter with the Su-30 for the Sukhoi boys to validate some new tactics?

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 12 Nov 2008 22:22

IAF modernisation process on course: Major

Bangalore, Nov 12 (PTI): The Indian Air Force was going through the process of modernisation and it would see some major transformation, including upgrading of its equipment within a span of seven to eight years, Air Chief Marshal F H Major said today.

"The Indian Air Force is going through a stage of modernisation" with a lot of new technology, equipment being added and some equipment being upgraded to a better standard, Major told reporters here.

"A lot of technology is going to come into the IAF" in the 11th, 12th, 13th plan period," he said.

The IAF is in a "state of transformation" and in seven to 10 years, would be different with potential and capabilites to project it as a national power when and where required and to be of assistance to the country and neighbours during disaster management and calamities, he said.

"We are on a path where we want our country to have an aerospace power, which will be a preferred option when and where the country requires it", he said.

On procurement of radars, he said that the IAF had taken the first delivery of Rohini three dimensional radar from the DRDO and 30 were expected in four to five years.

"We are pleased with the Rohini radar. The performance is excellent", he said, adding that other radars were coming along, following a joint venture between DRDO and BEL.

On the 126 fighter jets, he said that the technical evaluation was coming to an end and IAF expected to wrap up the work in a month or so. The IAF expected flight evaluation to take place early next year, he said.

He said in the aviation industry, the gestation period is very long. For anything to be inducted into the force from the day a contract is signed takes nearly 24 to 36 months.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 13 Nov 2008 01:29

On procurement of radars, he said that the IAF had taken the first delivery of Rohini three dimensional radar from the DRDO and 30 were expected in four to five years.

"We are pleased with the Rohini radar. The performance is excellent", he said, adding that other radars were coming along, following a joint venture between DRDO and BEL.

this confirms other report of 30 drdo rohini radars and iaf very pleased with system!!

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 13 Nov 2008 02:43

Any update on the GreenPine Copies (LRTR or something like that ) ?

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 13 Nov 2008 03:02

lrtr is not a greenpine "copy"
it is much more powerful aesa develped by lrde and elta for india specific needs
it is just one of many radar design worked on in india (see recent new report about all new radars)
we will see series production of lrtr and mfcr system in india once abm system tests are complete around 2012
till then drdo will release detail of such strategic system only if it want to at times of test or public event

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 13 Nov 2008 14:01

Air Force wings get Presidential honour
Standard for 59 Squadron
Colour for technical college

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 13 Nov 2008 20:25

India to activate airfield near China border
Ajit K Dubey in New Delhi

After Daulat Beg Oldi and Fuk Che airfields in Ladakh, India is aggressively pursuing plans to re-open the Nyama Advanced Landing Ground for Indian Air Force's operations close to the Line of Actual Control with China.

However, the IAF plans to reopen the Chu Shul ALG in the region have been shelved for the moment, but could be revived later.

"We are working on the Nyama ALG and hopefully it would be open for fixed wing aircraft operations soon. Work has already commenced there and we will be using it in the near future," Western Air Command (WAC) chief Air Marshal Pranab Kumar Barbora told PTI in ENw Delhi [Images] on Thursday.

"If the government wants, Nyama ALG can be developed into a proper airfield and can be used for transport aircraft operations also," he said.

When Nyama gets ready, it will be IAF's 3rd ALG in Ladakh to be reopened nearer to the Chinese and Pakistani borders in the last six months in the region of Jammu and Kashmir [Images].

The IAF has been reopening airfields to strengthen its air maintenance operations and promotion of tourism in the region, which is the gateway to the highest battlefield, Siachen Glacier.

"IAF had received a request from the government to see if it can develop airfields in the region for tourism purpose. We found that reopening these airfields was possible and could be used for air maintenance operations also," Barbora said.

The IAF is not going to reactivate the Chu Shul airfield in the near future, as was being speculated.

"We will not be opening the Chushul airfield now. The Army does not want air maintenance in that area, as their trucks can move up to the area for supplies," he said.

When IAF reopened Daulat Beg Oldi in May this year, Barbora had flown by an AN-32 transport aircraft to make the first touch down at the DBO.

Fuk Che was also opened for AN-32 aircraft operations late last month.

The AN-32 is the only fixed wing aircraft in the IAF inventory

. This 10-tonne aircraft can operate from these airfields, as it was possible to load and unload passengers and relief material on to the cargo area without switching off its engines. Such a luxury does not exist on the IL-76 50-tonne heavy-lift aircraft with its four engines.

Aircraft operating from the region cannot afford to switch-off their engines, as restarting them would be an impossible task at such high altitudes.

IAF believes that after the arrival of C-130J 'Hercules', which will join the IAF inventory from 2011, operations from the ALGs would become more effective, as these aircraft with around 20-tonne carrying capability, can land and take-off from very short runways.

"The C-130J will be the ideal aircraft for the IAF to operate from these ALGs as they can fly with more loads," Barbora said.

Till now, IAF has transported more than eight tonnes of load to two functional ALGs and brought back six tonnes of load from there.

"We have also carried 35 passengers from these ALGs in the recent months," Barbora added.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 13 Nov 2008 21:44

Bell quits IAF's light utility chopper bids
New Delhi
, Nov 13: After withdrawing its bid from the Indian Air Force's (IAF) attack helicopter deal, US chopper manufacturer Bell has now backed off from the contest for 197 light utility helicopters (LUHs).

"We are not participating in the competition as our senior management felt it was not feasible for the company to comply with the offsets clause in the tender documents," a Bell Helicopters India Incorporated official said on Thursday.

The decision of Bell comes within a month of it exiting the attack helicopter bids citing problems with procurement procedure.

India had issued the request for proposals (RFP) for the 197 LUHs this July.

Bell claimed the Indian Defence Ministry had put down clauses under which the original equipment manufacturer winning the contract was bound to plough back 50 percent of the deal amount to India as offsets, which was hard for them to comply with.

In fact, India was forced to issue a fresh tender for its LUH requirements, after cancelling the original RFP in December last following objections raised by Bell over rejection of its bids in favour of French major Eurocopter's AS-355 'Fennec'.

Bell and Eurocopter were the two final contenders and India had decided to put its weight with 'Fennec' after technical evaluation.

Bureau Report

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 14 Nov 2008 01:20

Kakarat wrote:Bell quits IAF's light utility chopper bids
New Delhi
, Nov 13: After withdrawing its bid from the Indian Air Force's (IAF) attack helicopter deal, US chopper manufacturer Bell has now backed off from the contest for 197 light utility helicopters (LUHs).

"We are not participating in the competition as our senior management felt it was not feasible for the company to comply with the offsets clause in the tender documents," a Bell Helicopters India Incorporated official said on Thursday.

The decision of Bell comes within a month of it exiting the attack helicopter bids citing problems with procurement procedure.

India had issued the request for proposals (RFP) for the 197 LUHs this July.

Bell claimed the Indian Defence Ministry had put down clauses under which the original equipment manufacturer winning the contract was bound to plough back 50 percent of the deal amount to India as offsets, which was hard for them to comply with.

In fact, India was forced to issue a fresh tender for its LUH requirements, after cancelling the original RFP in December last following objections raised by Bell over rejection of its bids in favour of French major Eurocopter's AS-355 'Fennec'.

Bell and Eurocopter were the two final contenders and India had decided to put its weight with 'Fennec' after technical evaluation.

Bureau Report

let them bugger off..its because of Bell that the Light Utility Cheetah replacement tender was reopened, which makes me wonder what they were doing during the previous bid regarding offsets.

and they're in a worse shape than Eurocopter, having fired 500 employees after the ARH deal was cancelled by the US Army..all in all, good riddance.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 14 Nov 2008 01:28

Since there is no other competitor does it mean Eurocopter gets the deal or can HAL pitch the LOH?

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 14 Nov 2008 03:20

vavinash wrote:Since there is no other competitor does it mean Eurocopter gets the deal or can HAL pitch the LOH?

No, other than Eurocopter another European company Italian Agusta/Finmeccanica would also be in the race with their AW109 model. This is the same model which is already in service with SAAF, Malaysian Armed Force, US Coast Guard.

* I have one question for the air experts.
Although a bit heavier, why can't ALH Dhruv fullfill the role of Light Utility Helicopter after all it is fully qualified for hot and high operations of Siachen.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Nov 2008 03:22

running costs.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 14 Nov 2008 12:52

After hiccups, indigenous Light Combat Helicopter set to fly in March

After the first prototype's maiden flight in March 2009, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) says LCH should be ready for the initial operational clearance (IOC) by December 2010,'' a senior defence ministry official told TOI.

cbelwal · Post by **cbelwal** » 14 Nov 2008 21:00

Shooting at an IAF chopper and killing a flight engineer is serious escalation on part of the Naxals

Chopper shot at in Chhattisgarh, engineer killed

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chha ... 714503.cms

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Nov 2008 21:40

cbelwal wrote:Shooting at an IAF chopper and killing a flight engineer is serious escalation on part of the Naxals

Chopper shot at in Chhattisgarh, engineer killed

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chha ... 714503.cms

If this doesn't call for the Hinds to be unleashed, nothing does....