Indian Military Aviation

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NRao
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 13 Feb 2009 08:30

:roll:

New Engine for Indian Jaguar Aircraft For Superior Mission Capability

In 2007 the F125IN was successfully demonstrated for the Indian Air Force in Bangalore. The engine is projected to save the Indian Air Force more than Rupees 7000 Crores ($1.5 billion) in life-cycle costs compared to other upgrade options being considered. The F125IN permits the Jaguar to perform missions never before possible with the current engine.


This is an old proposal being dusted off.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 08:41

Chief has no problem if India & Pakistan have same weapon platform

I would assume that the IAF knows the F-16 C/D inside out given that we have been extensively training with the RSAF in Kalaikunda from a year and are even hosting their F-16s as a permanent base out there.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 13 Feb 2009 08:43

Rolls Royce is arguing that F125 engine will add more weight to Jaguar.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_hk » 13 Feb 2009 08:55


NRao
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 13 Feb 2009 08:59

I don't think it is supplier driven agenda.


I recall it to be a Honeywell driven agenda. However, here is a report MoD report from April 2007

To gain a better foot hold in the technology, it is also proposed to participate in co development activities of some engines with leading players in the world. Co development proposals for F-125 with Honeywell or Adour Mk821 with Rolls Royce, 250-C40B with Rolls Royce, USA is also under study. Participation as a co–development partner in the FT4000, aero derivative industrial version, with P&W also is envisaged.


IIRC the proposal actually predates 2007.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 13 Feb 2009 09:56



Hmm..............

How many PAF sqauds would Pashtuns ask for?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vavinash » 13 Feb 2009 10:10

IAF needs 45 fighter squardons to effectively counter china and pakistan. But I don't see that happening til 2020.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 13 Feb 2009 12:51

They wanted a tailless config.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vavinash » 13 Feb 2009 12:58

Over all a good design but a little dissapointed with the exhaust nozzle. It doesn't seem to have any IR supreesing capability like f-22.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 13 Feb 2009 12:59

This isnt the final design , so you will see lots of changes

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kakarat » 13 Feb 2009 13:05

vavinash wrote:Over all a good design but a little dissapointed with the exhaust nozzle. It doesn't seem to have any IR supreesing capability like f-22.


Don't compare with F-22, they are not building a F-22

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 13 Feb 2009 14:01

IAF hasnt got any PHALCONS yet, and has been delayed till march end now.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby parshuram » 13 Feb 2009 14:13

Russia
Russia to deliver first AWACS plane to India 'soon'
15:05 | 12/ 02/ 2009



BANGALORE (India), February 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will deliver the first A-50 AWACS aircraft developed on the basis of Il-76MD military transport plane in the near future, a Russian aircraft industry official said on Thursday.

India ordered three A-50EI variants fitted with the Israeli-made Phalcon radar system in 2001. The first aircraft was scheduled to arrive in 2007-08 but has been delayed.

"The AWACS version of Il-76 will be soon delivered to India," Viktor Livanov, vice-president of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, said at a news conference on the sidelines of the Aero India 2009 air show in India.

In many aspects, the A-50 is comparable to the E-3 Sentry of the U.S. Air Force. It is fitted with an aerial refueling system and electronic warfare equipment, and can detect targets up to 400 km (250 miles) away.

The existing Russian-Indian military-technical cooperation program until 2010 includes up to 200 projects worth about $18 billion.

In addition to the Russian A-50 aircraft, India has recently purchased eight Boeing P-81 long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft from the United States, and signed a deal with Brazil to jointly integrate domestically developed AWACS systems onto three Brazilian-made Embraer-145 aircraft to be later commissioned with the Indian air force.
link

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 13 Feb 2009 14:18

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/102.gif What the hell, now i cant understand who is giving us what

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby parshuram » 13 Feb 2009 14:22

krishnan IAF has received Phalcon - 1

link

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 13 Feb 2009 14:52


parshuram
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby parshuram » 13 Feb 2009 15:20

Intresting This is from India Today .. who to beleive :?:

link


Recently at republic day parade IAF displayed a rather funny model and commetator did mentioned that India has just accuired the aircraft :)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 13 Feb 2009 15:40

I hope i'm wrong, but i think that guy Sandeep Unnithan saw one of those floats to be displayed at the R-day parade. :rotfl:

There were talks of the real AWACS being unveiled at R-day parade.
Then it was Aero-India 2009.

I'll be happy if its really here and inducted on Mahashivratiri (an auspicious day).

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby dinakar » 13 Feb 2009 16:31

parshuram wrote:Intresting This is from India Today .. who to beleive :?:


Recently at republic day parade IAF displayed a rather funny model and commetator did mentioned that India has just accuired the aircraft :)

AWACS delivery delayed till March end: IAF
And this one is from Hindu..... :x

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby clay » 13 Feb 2009 16:48

India to develop medium combat aircraft with stealth features

"It is possible to have an MCA with a twin engine, with less weight and improved electronics. It will also have an inbuilt weapon load for stealth reasons. It is doable and it is a challenge," said Natarajan.


I sincerely hope all the past mistakes regarding planning, funding & management will be eliminated this time around. My best wishes to the MCA team.

Regds, Clay

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby parshuram » 13 Feb 2009 16:53

rshyam wrote:
parshuram wrote:Intresting This is from India Today .. who to beleive :?:


Recently at republic day parade IAF displayed a rather funny model and commetator did mentioned that India has just accuired the aircraft :)

AWACS delivery delayed till March end: IAF
And this one is from Hindu..... :x



you angry on me pal :) wonder i am only updated thru these news clips .... well if these delay induction news are coming what of the picture that has been posted in india today claiming AWACS landing at palam .. !!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby dinakar » 13 Feb 2009 17:12

parshuram wrote:you angry on me pal :) wonder i am only updated thru these news clips .... well if these delay induction news are coming what of the picture that has been posted in india today claiming AWACS landing at palam .. !!

No parshuram i just used that smiley to show how the news clips make us mad.... And i dont think that picture was taken in Palam bcz that picture already came in shiv aroor's blog on 16th july 2008.
link

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby narayana » 13 Feb 2009 18:06

“We are now around 34 squadrons. We can come down a bit more and then we will pick up. Without losing combat edge we hope to have the sanctioned strength by 2017, and a little more by 2020,” Major said.


If Rafale is selected for MRCA they can deliver 40 AC by 2012,and if MRCA contract is split into 2 we can have another additional Sqn. from other bid winner.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 18:10

rshyam wrote:
parshuram wrote:you angry on me pal :) wonder i am only updated thru these news clips .... well if these delay induction news are coming what of the picture that has been posted in india today claiming AWACS landing at palam .. !!

No parshuram i just used that smiley to show how the news clips make us mad.... And i dont think that picture was taken in Palam bcz that picture already came in shiv aroor's blog on 16th july 2008.
link

Didnt a BRFite swear he saw the Phalcon in B'luru? :-?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 13 Feb 2009 18:38

this guy named vishals said he saw phalcon in blore
url
may be phalcon did came for some tests and went back for final touch up. it probably would also have some HAL communications for compatibility.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya G » 13 Feb 2009 18:42

If BRF spotter report is not a hoax then perhaps it is in India but not yet delivered to IAF?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ajay_ijn » 13 Feb 2009 19:43

Russians selected Mi-28 for 22 attack helicopter bid. wonder why not Ka-52. Ka-226 is in light helicopter requirement.
url
Speaking at the Aero India 2009 show, he added that his company, in conjunction with Russia's state-controlled arms exporter, Rosoboronexport, was participating in a number of tenders, in particular involving the Ka-226T multirole helicopter and the Mi-28H Night Hunter helicopter gunship.

He said the company was also in talks with the Indian Defense Ministry on the modernization of radar systems installed on Ka-31 helicopters used by the Indian Navy.


Sikorsky found a way to get through India-US End-user drama for time being by bidding twice for Navys Heli bid.
url
"We put in two bids," said Scott Pierce, Sikorsky vice president, Worldwide Sales – Asia, to meet the requirement for 16 helicopters to replace aging Sea King multi-role helicopters.

Sikorsky is offering the S-70B Seahawk as a commercial direct sale and the MH-60R as a Foreign Military Sale (FMS) under the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA). "The MH-60R comes with U.S. government interaction," said Pierce.


Rolls Royce in war of words with Honeywell at AI over Jags power plant. i am posting whole article as it has some technical info both engines.
url
BANGALORE - Rolls-Royce has dismissed criticism by U.S. rival Honeywell over the performance of the upgraded Adour engine it is offering for the upcoming competition to re-engine Indian Jaguar combat aircraft.

Honeywell has been handing out DVDs and has a video presentation on its stand claiming the Adour Mk871 has weight, thrust, payload and other penalties compared with its F125IN offering.

With a formal request for proposals possible in the next few months the U.S. engine maker has taken the gloves off in a contest which is expected to see more than 120 twin-engined Indian Air Force Jaguar's upgraded.

The video detailed differences in the two engines, saying the Adour Mk821 proposed by the British company would increase the weight of the aircraft as it is currently configured by 150 pounds while the F125 was 590 pounds lighter than today's configuration.

An earlier version of the Adour currently powers the Indian Jaguar fleet. The Adour Mk871 is also used on the Indian Hawk jet trainer offering a potential commonality gain.

The current Indian air force Jaguar is already overweight and underpowered for critical hot and high missions.

"The current engine does not have the thrust capability to do the job," said Mike Garten, Honeywell's vice president for defense and space military aircraft business development. "It's having trouble in the high-hot environment."

The U.S. engine maker said in its video that its contender had between 17-40 percent more thrust and a 4,400 pounds higher payload compared with Rolls-Royce's proposed solution.

The video also said that Rolls-Royce has "yet to get a fully certificated modified Adour to meet the operational needs of the Jaguar."

A Rolls-Royce spokesman responded to that claim saying "we have the only engine certificated for the aircraft [the current version of the Adour used on Jaguar]."

At a press conference earlier this week Martin Fausset, the managing director of Rolls-Royce Defence Aerospace, didn't rebut the technical data directly but said that higher thrust and reduced engine weight were not straightforward issues.

Fausset said that people get "seduced by thrust" but offering a lot of thrust is only of importance if it can be used by the aircraft.

On the weight issue Fausset said that reducing engine weight was "never a simple equation, it might not be a weight advantage you can use. If you have to put ballast in another part of the aircraft [to maintain the center of gravity], that removes the weight advantage."

Honeywell responded to that saying they had already taken the center of gravity issue into the equation.

"Lighter is always better. We have corrected for center of gravity already in our [weight] numbers," said a Honeywell spokesman.

The video stated that following a November 2007 test of the F125IN, officials who witnessed the test had said the F125IN was "technically superior to the Rolls-Royce solution." Those officials were not named.

Speaking earlier to Defense News, Garten said the new power plant also would shorten the Jaguar's take off requirements by 3,000 feet and provide 37 percent faster climbs than the notoriously underpowered current engine. Both engines were tested in India at the HAL facilities in November.

so much arguments, counter arguments for not so big deal. I hope it happens for MMRCA deal as well, we can get lot of info. :P

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 13 Feb 2009 20:41

clay wrote:India to develop medium combat aircraft with stealth features

"It is possible to have an MCA with a twin engine, with less weight and improved electronics. It will also have an inbuilt weapon load for stealth reasons. It is doable and it is a challenge," said Natarajan.


I sincerely hope all the past mistakes regarding planning, funding & management will be eliminated this time around. My best wishes to the MCA team.

Regds, Clay


indeed.. furthermore the features of MCA perhaps appears to be half way to 5th gen.. a good first step. Hope this gradual seeking of technology helps and its healthier way to foray into the future..

btw, the design do copy JSF wing tunnel model. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II


Q: Why internal weapons load technology preceded the requirements of STOVL (F35 vertical lift kind) and TVC?

I thought the requirements of internal weapons load and super-cruise always comes into 5th gen requirements. I don't see any big gains here, if the weapons themselves can be stealthy enough (shapes and skins)... plus the aerodynamics.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Arun_S » 13 Feb 2009 23:59

Air chief defends IAF pilots, trashes DGCA report
NDTV Correspondent
Wednesday, February 11, 2009, (Bangalore)
The Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major has rejected reports that pilots of the Indian Air Force were responsible for the near miss incident at Mumbai airport.

An Air India jet with 150 onboard nearly collided with VVIP helicopters being used to transport the President and her family on Monday.

Earlier, the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), the civil aviation watchdog in the country, had blamed the pilot of the presidential choppers for not following rules and coming too close to the passenger plane on the runway.

Now, the Air chief has rejected that report and said that the Air Force's pilots were not at fault and the civil aviation ministry should set its house in order.

No action has been taken against any one yet. ATC officials were taken off duty, and the Air Force said the chopper pilots in question would not fly so that they could focus on the inquiry.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 14 Feb 2009 06:46

Over all a good design but a little dissapointed with the exhaust nozzle. It doesn't seem to have any IR supreesing capability like f-22.


IIRC no one really knows the way the F-22 suppresses IR. Also, is there another AC that has the same capability?

They wanted a tailless config.


Tailless goes hand in hand with TVC in this case. Once they figure out a TVC then I would imagine the "tailless" will be considered.

The wing shape reminds me of an A-4 Skyhawk - of 'Nam times.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 14 Feb 2009 07:54

raptors have TVC (mostly pitch) flapsperhaps the engine is housed much deeper than it protrudes, and in addition they are emittingcooling gas (water vapors). more...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vick » 15 Feb 2009 00:10

Nishant (Mk II)? will have CTOL capability and not the catapult launch and parachute recovery.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby mgill » 15 Feb 2009 02:12

I think russia is looking to sell Indian some new multirole helicopters and the Mi-28H Night Hunter helicopter gunship.

BANGALORE (India), February 13 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is ready to provide India with a total of 320 military helicopters and hopes to expand cooperation, an executive of a Russian helicopter making plant said on Friday.

“We have presented to the Indian Defense Ministry, as well as to other government agencies, our line of new models and modernized helicopters,” said Igor Pshenichny, deputy general director of the Helicopters of Russia holding.

Speaking at the Aero India 2009 show, he added that his company, in conjunction with Russia’s state-controlled arms exporter, Rosoboronexport, was participating in a number of tenders, in particular involving the Ka-226T multirole helicopter and the Mi-28H Night Hunter helicopter gunship.

He said the company was also in talks with the Indian Defense Ministry on the modernization of radar systems installed on Ka-31 helicopters used by the Indian Navy.

Pshenichny also said Helicopters of Russia would invest $1.5-2 million in building a helicopter maintenance and service center in northern India.

Source: http://fighterjets.blogsite.org


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 15 Feb 2009 19:38


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Tilak » 15 Feb 2009 23:19

X-Posted :

Russia delivers 4 MiG-29 fighters to India
18:27 | 12/ 02/ 2009

BANGALORE (India), February 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has delivered the first four MiG-29 Fulcrum-D naval fighters to India and will supply the remaining 12 aircraft by the end of 2009, the head of Russia's MiG aircraft maker said on Thursday.

Russia and India signed a contract on January 20, 2004, stipulating the supply of 12 single-seat MiG-29K and four two-seat MiG-29KUB to New Delhi as part of a $750 million deal to deliver the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier currently being retrofitted in Russia for the Indian Navy.


"The first four aircraft have been inspected by Indian technical experts and the [Indian] pilots are taking a five-month flight training course," Mikhail Pogosyan said at a news conference on the sidelines of the Aero India 2009 show in the southern city of Bangalore.

Pogosyan also said the remaining fighters would be delivered to India by the yearend, as stipulated by the contract.

The aircraft will be later deployed on board the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, which is due to enter service in the Indian navy in 2012 as the INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2009 00:01


sounds like migs are marketing to the right people!!! what do we know about how IAF makes decisions. imho, migs know our setup better than armchairs here.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 16 Feb 2009 00:56

Maiden flight of India's supersonic trainer in two months.

India would fly its indigenously built supersonic light combat aircraft trainer --Tejas -- in two months for the first time, a senior defence official said here today.

It would be a general purpose dedicated trainer aircraft, Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Chief of Defence Research and Development Organisation, M Natarajan, told reporters.

This trainer is going to be "far, far superior to Hawk in five-six years," he claimed.

Hawk is the country's present advanced jet trainer aircraft.

Asked about the long-range Agni missile, he said "efforts are on".

DRDO is working towards capitalising on the work done in the first and second stages and trying to intelligently repackage both stages by reducing the inter-stage distance and gain that much space for pushing a third motor. These are not simple tasks, he said.

"I am very confident that sometime before December 2010, we should be able to demonstrate something," he said. (MORE)


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