Indian Military Aviation

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shiv
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Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2009 06:42

sunny wrote:LASER LASIK SURGERY IS ALLOWED IN IAF

but please see this link and post your comments..

laser lasik surgery is used to remove glasses from eyes , it takes less than 15 minute on machine
to remove glasses from eyes permanently

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090325/health.htm#3

THANKS

anyone please throw more light on this...


:rotfl: This has got to be one of the most unusual but relevant topics on here. I think people with glasses were not allowed to fly. LASIK surgery can correct defects in the eye that used to demand glasses in the past - so that such people with corrected vision can now be considered free from glasses and eligible to fly.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby andy B » 27 Mar 2009 08:24

^^^ Shiv saar AFAIK Lasic can remove glasses but it cannot guarentee that they will remain free of glasses. Also what happens if glasses are heriditary (mum n dad both have high prescription glasses)???

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2009 09:18

andy B wrote:^^^ Shiv saar AFAIK Lasic can remove glasses but it cannot guarentee that they will remain free of glasses. Also what happens if glasses are heriditary (mum n dad both have high prescription glasses)???


That is true for most of us - even though many have "normal" vision. They just stop flying I guess, when glasses become a requirement. Which means that vision is tested along with yearly medicals.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby p_saggu » 27 Mar 2009 09:36

Laser lasik surgery uses a laser to burn the cornea to change its curvature and so its power. the cornea contributes about one third of the focusing power of the eye, the rest is in the lens of the eye.
Problem is that in the process it thins out the cornea.
While it has been around for a some time now, eye surgeons will still caution you before you go in for this procedure - the results of long term corneal health and clarity are not known yet.

Avoid it if you can - you never know you might end up with corneal opacity (Very bad believe me) or corneal rupture (Very very very bad) in the long run

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby andy B » 27 Mar 2009 09:51

^^^ Egjactly I was planning to get it myself when I found out that I got glasses and that would make me "untouchable" by the IAF...
Anyhow after researching it a bit I found that this wasnt quite the most assured way also in me case both mum n dad have glasses so there was a good chance that I might get the darn glasses back in the near future even after going through laser/ik

I am a bit confused about laser and lasic below is the link to lasic which is more complicated than the traditional laser where they just used to shave off the retina...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasic

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby neerajb » 27 Mar 2009 10:04

Kartik wrote:
sum wrote:Errr... if all three failed to meet the GSQR, whom will they send the RFP to the next time?

What exactly are these reqs which neither Mi-3x, Apache etc couldnt meet?


not Apache. the Tiger, Mil Mi-28N Night Hunter, Mangusta failed to meet it..must've been some super-duper requirements that none could meet..or else simply US pressure that this miserably weak Congress govt. succumbed to.


Almost certainly the latter. US sneezes and our GOI runs to reissue the RFP sweetened for US citing weird reasons.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 27 Mar 2009 11:36

X-posting:
sum wrote:Link
Saras: Experiment turns into accident
Kalyan Ray, New Delhi, DH News Service:


Minutes before it crashed, the ill-fated Saras aircraft was carrying out an experiment on how to save the plane in case it catches a fire mid-air.

On the afternoon of March 6, the task for the IAF pilots was to find out how the light transport aircraft–developed at the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), Bangalore–will behave if one of the engines suddenly caught a fire.

They simulated the experiment. Assuming one of the engines in the twin-engine plane is on flame, the Indian Air Force test pilots killed the other engine as a security precaution. That was the experiment drill.

Stopping the engine led to the plane’s free fall for some seconds. Those seconds are supposed to have been utilised by the pilots to address the fire problem before they again took control of the plane.

They switched on the engines to halt the free fall. The engines came back to life but some other yet-to-be identified technical failure cropped up leading to the dreadful crash,
sources told Deccan Herald.


The two black boxes have been sent to a UK-based company for analysis as Indian laboratories do not have facilities to analyse that kind of black boxes. The UK firm may take another few months to give its report.

Another reason for the deadly crash was Bangalore’s increasing population. The plane took off from the HAL airport and crashed near Bidadi, 26 km south from the heart of the city.

Sources said that the pilots tried their best to locate an isolated area for a safer landing to minimise damage to the people.

Unfortunately, they could not locate such a spot and lost precious time in the process. Those valuable minutes could have saved the pilots and the flight engineer’s lives.

In the wake of the crash, scientists are wondering if future tests of Saras or any other aircraft could be carried out towards relatively-less populated Jakkur side in the north of the city as flight testing is always a risky business.

The brave pilots gave up their lives to save the lives of civilians on the ground...RIP to them all.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sunny » 27 Mar 2009 16:36

but i want your views on this following news

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090325/health.htm#3

anyone please confirm it ,

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Drevin » 27 Mar 2009 20:30

andy B, yes its true you're power should have stabilized before you go in for it .... so you need to be atleast 28 yrs old .....

In anycase some info here if you're still interested : best place for eye power correction in south asia is in bangalore .... called Netradhama superspeciality Hospital, 7th block jayanagar. They have the most modern equipment in the world .... the only eye correction hospital in india and south asia to be on par with the latest in europe and usa.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sunny » 27 Mar 2009 22:55

Drevin wrote:andy B, yes its true you're power should have stabilized before you go in for it .... so you need to be atleast 28 yrs old .....

In anycase some info here if you're still interested : best place for eye power correction in south asia is in bangalore .... called Netradhama superspeciality Hospital, 7th block jayanagar. They have the most modern equipment in the world .... the only eye correction hospital in india and south asia to be on par with the latest in europe and usa.


i want to go for laser lasik can you tell me how you come to above conclusion about Netradhama hospital , may be they got outdated,

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Drevin » 28 Mar 2009 11:21

lasik is previous generation ..... new laser machine has come out .... the entire procedure has been fully automated .....

If you are really serious about finding out the difference between lasik and the latest procedures plz call up netradhama superspeciality eye hospital, bengalurur. They are the best guys in this part of the globe for this kind of thing ..... I am not a doctor so I am not the right person to explain the technical part ... All I know is that around 5 years ago they were doing about 5-10 operations per day !!!

Imagine how many they do nowadays .... They are truly the most modern, and technically competent people in this part of the world. You can just step in for a consultation. Wishing you good luck.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby darshhan » 28 Mar 2009 19:54

My cousin who is currently at CMC vellore suggested Shankar netralaya at Chennai for Lasik.I personally have no idea about how it is.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Shyam_K » 29 Mar 2009 02:16

Many sources claim that four TU-22M3 have been leased to India, starting sometime in 2001. Does any one know if this actually happened? If so, has anyone got a pic of the TU-22M3 in Indian colours?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby p_saggu » 29 Mar 2009 09:50

AFAIK,
They have never been seen in India. Maybe IAF is being extra careful, they only come out of the hangers during night, and make only night sorties.
god forbid if one crashes, IAF can always say that a Mig-21 crashed - DDM will lap up another story of the 'flying coffin' :wink:
Just like DRDO was having fun with DDM about the 1 meter diameter Trishul missile that can carry a nuclear warhead. :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby suryag » 29 Mar 2009 10:10

Why havent we heard anything about LCA, I was expecting some news byte discussing completion of bombing runs in the desert range. I could have posted this there but then other jingos like me might get excited that there is some new development on the lca front to eventually get disheartened(like i experience). Pan eaters and milk drinkers please find out from your pan wallah and doodhwaala

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 29 Mar 2009 10:12

Shyam_K wrote:Many sources claim that four TU-22M3 have been leased to India, starting sometime in 2001. Does any one know if this actually happened? If so, has anyone got a pic of the TU-22M3 in Indian colours?


this should help you.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 29 Mar 2009 10:51

p_saggu wrote:AFAIK,
They have never been seen in India. Maybe IAF is being extra careful, they only come out of the hangers during night, and make only night sorties.


Could be stealth using clock technology?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Apr 2009 08:53

Indian RFP for Advanced Jet Trainers includes errant BAE Systems

The IAF scrapped the Hawk order after facing problems with the supply of spare parts, and is reportedly not keen on any BAE Hawks adorning its trainer fleet in the future.


Does everyone have this "spare parts" problem? Or is it just (targeted at) India?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 01 Apr 2009 09:00

So much for fleet standardisation and logistics inventory reduction!!!! :roll:

Twenty years to select a AJT and then another 10+ years(im being conservative) to select its follow-on.... :x :-?
Last edited by sum on 01 Apr 2009 09:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Cybaru » 01 Apr 2009 09:19

Must have some backstory. Anyone hear anything in IA-09 ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 01 Apr 2009 09:23

Deccan Herald » City » Detailed Story

A three-member team to leave for London

Saras crash probe to be over by April end

S Praveen Dhaneshkar,DH News Service,Bangalore:
Come April 6, it will be exactly a month since the Saras prototype aircraft of the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) crashed near Bidadi here killing three test pilots of the Indian Air Force (IAF).

But, NAL officials continue to be tight-lipped about the progress made in the investigation, even as the investigation is now being taken to London to decode data from the black box.
Did the aircraft crash in the process of conducting an experiment on fire safety or did the pilots of the ill-fated Saras switch off the engine in a flight test simulation leading to a technical failure? These are the questions NAL will have to ponder over.
Director General of Civil Aviation Dr S A Nasim Zaidi, told Deccan Herald from New Delhi that the investigation into the crash is very much on. “A three member team consisting of an official each from the DGCA, NAL and the IAF will leave for London with the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR) for decoding in the second week of April. We have decided to take the recorders to the UK as the manufacturer is based there. At the time the aircraft crashed, the temperatures were extremely high resulting in them being badly damaged,” he said.
The DGCA chief said the team is in the process of investigation and has not arrived at any conclusion as to the nature of the crash. “The data from the VCR and FDR has to be first examined. We are likely to complete the investigation into the Saras by the end of April,” added Dr Zaidi. NAL Director Dr A R Upadhya said, “The investigation committee is independent from the NAL and has been constituted by the DGCA. We are responsible only on the design of the aircraft. However, we have accorded full support to the Saras crash probe. NAL has nothing to sweep under the carpet. As and when the findings of the DGCA are out we will make them
public.”






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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby narayana » 01 Apr 2009 11:07

I think Hawk also has a clause not to use the trainers in war situation,something unacceptable to any buyer but because of the long delay and urgency of AJTs.IAF has gone for them,but now they have other options but the question is what about Maintenance and Logistics costs of a Entirely new kind of trainer and what benefits we will get from them.
Last edited by narayana on 01 Apr 2009 13:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Apr 2009 12:25


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby jaladipc » 01 Apr 2009 18:13



Why do we behave like a second line of copy cats as like china in inducting stuff and naming them like the west?

dont we yindoos have our own names?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Drevin » 01 Apr 2009 18:38

yak-130 and m-346 :
-twin engine (two engine choices for yak, honeywell for m346)
-quadruplex digital-fly-by-wire
-can be equipped with IFR probe
-can be equipped with radar (yak has a choice of radars)
-bought by respective airforces
-can be used in combat

Either one will be good upgrade/alternative over hawk.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby HariC » 01 Apr 2009 19:09

jaladipc wrote:


Why do we behave like a second line of copy cats as like china in inducting stuff and naming them like the west?

dont we yindoos have our own names?


Care to elaborate? what exactly did we do that we deserve the label "sencond line of copycats"? Maybe you should read the WHOLE article instead of just the headline?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby SaiK » 01 Apr 2009 19:16

Rajdoot!..
Pradhana Viman!?

does drdo gets to de-bug?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Apr 2009 19:35

SaiK wrote:Rajdoot!..
Pradhana Viman!?

does drdo gets to de-bug?


I'm guessing IB (with possible NTRO support), as IB does similar jobs for Indian Missions and key Govt. offices.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 01 Apr 2009 19:49

Given that most of the detection equipment will be Amriki itself, wonder how many American bugs will we be able to catch? (There will be tons planted)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby KiranM » 01 Apr 2009 20:28

sum wrote:Given that most of the detection equipment will be Amriki itself, wonder how many American bugs will we be able to catch? (There will be tons planted)

IMHO, the easiest approach will be to build a 'silent cabin' inside the plane. No emissions to leak out of it. All sensitive discussions can happen inside it.

This I feel is better than hunting for bugs and not being sure if all are discovered.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gaur » 01 Apr 2009 20:28

sum wrote:Given that most of the detection equipment will be Amriki itself, wonder how many American bugs will we be able to catch? (There will be tons planted)

I really doubt that. I don't think they will be placing bugs at any place it can fit into. It is a very sensitive topic and any bugs found would sour relations and cause a diplomatic row. IMO the bugs would be few and would only be placed if they would be confident enough that they would go undetected. ( which imho is a good possibility )

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Apr 2009 20:49

narayana wrote:I think Hawk also has a clause not to use the trainers in war situation,something unacceptable to any buyer but because of the long delay and urgency of AJTs.IAF has gone for them,but now they have other options but the question is what about Maintenance and Logistics costs of a Entirely new kind of trainer and what benefits we will get from them.


before making such claims, present a source. otherwise don't indulge is wild speculation.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Apr 2009 20:58

Drevin wrote:yak-130 and m-346 :
-twin engine (two engine choices for yak, honeywell for m346)
-quadruplex digital-fly-by-wire
-can be equipped with IFR probe
-can be equipped with radar (yak has a choice of radars)
-bought by respective airforces
-can be used in combat

Either one will be good upgrade/alternative over hawk.


only if you totally ignore the question of commonality. you now need Instructors/technicians who have to be trained on the new AJT abroad, whereas on the Hawk, they would've been trained in India itself. you now have 2 separate lines of spares/maintenance to maintain. you have the added headache of dismantling a perfectly well set up HAL line to set up a totally different setup, with its own set of tools/jigs. add the expenditure of this to the new AJT as well. you need to train new technicians who'll assemble these fighters, whereas on the Hawk they'd have simply carried on with their experience assembling the first 42. and what did HAL gain by assembling 42 of these Hawks ? the aim was to get them capable of building more like the Jags and correspondingly upgrade them to a level that the IAF wanted.

If I may say so, I feel that the IAF's procurement decisions are looking absurd to be very polite. they had very brashly set aside HAL's Combat Advanced Trainer proposal with comments about the Hawk being the IAF's choice, and are now trying to get another totally different imported type into the IAF, one which isn't even in service with its own Air Force and has made not a single sale (MiG-AT) and one which is still undergoing development (M-346)..

some guys are going to be raking in some big moolah here. I'm guessing, new RFP, new agents, new company, new commissions.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby tejas » 01 Apr 2009 21:08

May I be so bold as to enquire why a nation that is supposedly working on a fifth generation fighter (MCA) and is about to bring a 4.5 generation fighter to IOC cannot make an advanced trainer?

After waiting 37 years to get an AJT why the hell did the IAF select overpriced Hawk from the Brits? I guess to repay them for the poison pill they left us at independence (TSP). Now we're back to selecting AJT's we previously passed over in favor of the Hawk!

I would be laughing right now but it is diificult to laugh and vomit at the same time.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Apr 2009 21:15

narayana wrote:I think Hawk also has a clause not to use the trainers in war situation,something unacceptable to any buyer but because of the long delay and urgency of AJTs.IAF has gone for them,but now they have other options but the question is what about Maintenance and Logistics costs of a Entirely new kind of trainer and what benefits we will get from them.


Nope.

For ANY AJT to be war capable, one HAS to remove the front seat of the trainer ........................ to accommodate a war-capable radar. This has to be planned for. Those ACs that cannot go through this conversion cannot be used in any "war".

I am not sure what the Hawks came with. IIRC they can be used in ground attack (not as a trainer) only). But, I could be wrong.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Apr 2009 21:21

tejas wrote:May I be so bold as to enquire why a nation that is supposedly working on a fifth generation fighter (MCA) and is about to bring a 4.5 generation fighter to IOC cannot make an advanced trainer?

After waiting 37 years to get an AJT why the hell did the IAF select overpriced Hawk from the Brits? I guess to repay them for the poison pill they left us at independence (TSP). Now we're back to selecting AJT's we previously passed over in favor of the Hawk!

I would be laughing right now but it is diificult to laugh and vomit at the same time.


Along with the IJT a AJT was ALSO proposed (in late 90s). The political wing did not have enough confidence and so, did not approve the budget (funds being low at THAT time too).

The problem right now is two fold: #1) leap frogging technologies (India does NOT have the continuous R&D - to enhance any AC for that matter) and #2) it takes time to build something to ASR, by which time time go back to #1

Also, it is no longer sufficient to "import", the emphasis has to be on offsets that help build a continuous and mature R&D.

JMTs.

I am sure everyone knows that "yak-130 and m-346" started as one.

I am no sure how much "support" the YAK-130 has from RuAF. Funding is a problem with them.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Apr 2009 21:50

NRao wrote:Nope.

For ANY AJT to be war capable, one HAS to remove the front seat of the trainer ........................ to accommodate a war-capable radar. This has to be planned for. Those ACs that cannot go through this conversion cannot be used in any "war".


why is that ? on the T-50, the aircraft already comes with the radar installed in the nose. and how can you install a radar by taking the front seat out of the aircraft ? if the aircraft wasn't designed from the go to have a radar, what difference would it make to remove the front seat ?

The Hawk is capable of being used as a bomb truck without the radar, so it is combat capable in that sense. Only the Hawk 200 had the front seat removed, a completely new nose profile, with new radome and then an APG-65 radar in the nose cone.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Drevin » 01 Apr 2009 22:29

If I may say so, I feel that the IAF's procurement decisions are looking absurd to be very polite.


Yes got to agree with you about the cost-control failure. But the new entrants in the rfp sure look on par with the hawk. These new generation trainers have caught up in all the areas apropos hawk. Also, sometimes diversifying maybe a necessary evil. We don't know the real situation on the ground with regard to parts. Is this an indication of the way the mrca will also go ???

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Apr 2009 23:32

Kartik,

Many issues here.

On T-50. Comes in Adv Trainer - with no radar and LIFT - with radar. (Then there is the F/A-50 with AESA - diff plane.)

On M-346, too early to tell, but no mention of radar so far on any page I have read so far.

On bomb trucks. You are right. However, over the past 10 years or so the recs and perhaps even definitions have changed because technologies have changed. Today AFs seem to want guided munition. So, the bomb trucks now need sophisticated paraphernalia - guidance, etc. The newer trainers come with some of these, but radar is a diff beast. Needs more wiring, cooling - thus proper engine, etc (I am sure you know all this).

On seat and radar swap. Perhaps I was not clear. This has to be a designed feature. It is not an upgradable feature as far as I know. But, in those trainers where this feature exists, only they can be converted (to light attack) during conflicts.

Correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Apr 2009 23:48

Drevin wrote:
If I may say so, I feel that the IAF's procurement decisions are looking absurd to be very polite.


Yes got to agree with you about the cost-control failure. But the new entrants in the rfp sure look on par with the hawk. These new generation trainers have caught up in all the areas apropos hawk. Also, sometimes diversifying maybe a necessary evil. We don't know the real situation on the ground with regard to parts. Is this an indication of the way the mrca will also go ???


its not a question of whether or not they are on par or even better than the Hawk. the point is that the IAF first insisted that the Hawk met ALL its requirements, and had all American parts switched (so that it was more reliable from a future sanction proof supply POV), which is why it was alright in the first place to pay a slight premium to get them in place of the MiG-AT, L-159, etc. and now all of a sudden, after inducting the Hawk with much fanfare, they're looking at a new AJT ! there was no issue with BAe as a supplier, because they're not like the US when it comes to being unreliable and sanction prone.

besides, its not like an AJT is going to be used to train pupils in Star Wars kind of warfare. they are to train pilots the basics of transonic flight and basics of combat, before they graduate onto more complicated fighters. and while the Hawk's airframe may be older than the Yak-130 (and its clone, the M-346), T-50, etc. its not like the IAF is going to use its AJTs for frontline combat. all training is done using simulations through avionics on all of these AJTs, and the Hawk 100 series have the same facilities, where mock bogeys are generated on the simulated radars on the MFDs..you don't require a radar on the AJT, you can simulate one with software ! if you do require a radar, then why issue an RFP to MiG-AT or Yak-130, which are also radarless ? why issue an RFP to BAe all over again at all ?!

if there were some shortcomings in the Hawk Mk.132 (which I find hard to believe, since its one of the most modern Hawks around), then it made much more sense to make efforts to tackle the shortcomings by upgrading the avionics in the second batch, instead of again going through another AJT procurement process.

the GoI should've put an end to this circus, where every other bloody aviation company has an IAF RFP in its hands. and I'm not exaggerating here ! Boeing, Bell, Dassault, Saab, MiG, EADS, Kamov, Mil, Agusta Westland, Alenia, Yakovlev, KAI, Lockheed Martin, BAe, Eurocopter are all in receipt of some tender from the IAF/IA. its like a child who wants to test every single toy in the shop and refuses to down-select at least a few to reduce the time/effort spent in the selection process or reduce the number of types to reduce the maintenance/logistics/training/ headaches..I can hardly believe it that just a couple of months ago, ACM Major had stated that the IAF wanted to reduce types in inventory.

the only explanation that makes sense to me is that the IAF is trying to drive down the follow-on order price from BAe by making it appear that they're willing to induct a new type if the price of Hawks are not favourable.


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