Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 31 May 2009 19:57

raji wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Delhi stunned:UK and China stall move to blacklist Masood Azhar

This is indeed good news. It is high time New Delhi learns that power and justice comes to the strong and not to the right and just. This UK stalling would go a long way to cut modern India's umbilical cord to UK, and allow us to emerge as a power which seeks its validity, its justification, its values somewhere else, within us.

David Mulli-in-Bund has done India a great service, and we should be greatly indebted to this man, who could single-handedly destroy all the illusions in the minds of our Oxbridgers.
Why is it good news ? Because now, by New Delhi, you mean the Indian Govt will realize that power and justice come to the strong.

Thats a joke. This is the oldest principle of humanity. Those who realize it, already know it, and have always known it. Those that dont, this will not open their eyes. Cause.......you can wake up a sleeping man, but never a man who is pretending to be asleep......New Delhi is only pretending to be asleep.....nothing will shake them off their slumber...

Indian government has no shame.........they cant be shamed into action. Indian people in general have proven to be no better or else they would ask for accountability from their government........worse yet....I think most Indians in general no longer worry about the Paki threat anyway......they are too busy plotting how to steal.....

It doesn't matter whether the politicians are really sleeping or just pretending to sleep, such news, articles and discussions ultimately awaken the people. The people will eventually ask the politicians why they were sleeping or pretending to, or boot them out. The common Indian, like everywhere else, would tend to see the world in black and white, who are friends and who are enemies. It would be good if UK moves into the column of enemies in the perception of the Indian. Once it becomes general perception, then it becomes difficult for the elite to pretend otherwise.

Given this is a slow process, but the process of Indians falling out of love with UK has to begin sooner or later, and this can be a start.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 31 May 2009 20:01

Raji, i think there is a whines thread specifically created for

I think there is nothing wrong with SM Krishna's statement.The art of diplpmacy is you dont call your enemy as 'enemy' on face.Both US and china call India as 'strategic partners' and then harm India from behind.That is something India should learn.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 May 2009 20:06

Indeed, it is time for some chai-biscoot with strategic partner Pakistan. Babus need to work out modalities for India-Pakistan confidence building measures in agricultural trade cooperation.

raji · Post by **raji** » 31 May 2009 20:11

Rony wrote:Raji, i think there is a whines thread specifically created for

I think there is nothing wrong with SM Krishna's statement.The art of diplpmacy is you dont call your enemy as 'enemy' on face.Both US and china call India as 'strategic partners' and then harm India from behind.That is something India should learn.

That would be fine........if India were harming their enemies from "behind"......but is it ?

Or India is harming its enemies from "behind" and we just dont know it ?

We need not know the strategy of harming the enemy from "behind" in the interest of secrecy, but if we cant see the result, isnt it safe to assume that we are not harming our enemy from "behind".....

By the way, Pak feels no such constraint of harming us from "behind"...........they have been poking us in the eye for decades, and successfully so and getting away with it.......

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 May 2009 20:15

Pak Army contingent leaves for Liberia

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 May 2009 20:46

We have a whine thread for whines. So no ranting about GOI in this thread.
Thanks, ramana

James B · Post by **James B** » 31 May 2009 21:00

Pak's nuke quest pre-dated India's 1974 test: US report

Pakistan began its pursuit of nuclear weapons in 1972 soon after the 1971 war with India, a new US Congressional report has said, challenging the conventional (and Pakistani) narrative that India's first nuclear test in 1974 was the trigger for its weapons quest.

raji · Post by **raji** » 31 May 2009 21:05

ramana wrote:We have a whine thread for whines. So no ranting about GOI in this thread.
Thanks, ramana

If you want to call criticism whines, thats fine. This entire forum by that definition is a "whine" forum, in which every thread is a "whine thread", because each thread is nothing but criticism of someone else's action. But we are selectively editing out "whines" then. We are only censoring "whines" against government of India and the people of India. Allowing "whines" against others is not only not very classy but also destructive and counterproductive. Because you cannot change someone else's behaviour by "whining" and "ranting" and "railing" against them. Can you change Pak's behaviour via posts on thread ?

But we can change Pak's behaviour by looking at ourselves and changing our behaviour towards them. For example, Indian government could be more mascular and that could change Pak's behaviour. Therefore, introspection and self criticism is the only productive and constructive "whine", if there is any.........rest is all useless

James B · Post by **James B** » 31 May 2009 21:11

India, Pakistan to resume 'track-two diplomacy'

A team from India comprising writers, former diplomats and intellectuals will visit Pakistan to resume the efforts of the previous teams to normalise relations between the two countries, the Associated Press of Pakistan (APP) said Sunday citing official sources.

Well, buckle up, its happening, the WKKism has started officially.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 31 May 2009 21:35

^^^
Chai-biskoot time

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 31 May 2009 21:39

Gerard wrote:Marvi Memon Meandering around Metropolis of Minneapolis in Minnesota.

"Please give us the drones, and we will man them ourselves," Memon said. "We don't wish to have you involved in droning our lands because you are not respecting our sovereignty."

Holy cow! (No pun intended). Ms Memom should restrict her exposure to TV/cameras in the land of the pure (manure) only. With out that makeup.....And, also, all that "droning" (her choice of words) sounds like whining and belly aching to me. BTW, note that she was trolling (droning?) a mall in Minneapolis. Great use of public funds.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 May 2009 21:56

stocks of brittania industries, parle and tata tea look like strong buys to me.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 May 2009 22:03

raghunath wrote:Pak's nuke quest pre-dated India's 1974 test: US report

Google up for 'Photochor' under videos or even in Youtube . This was discussed on BRF ages ago ; its just that after unkil's confirmation people who were trying to be politically correct or even living under denial will be in uncomfortable position.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 31 May 2009 23:22

There should'nt be any problems with statements like SM Krishna's. This is what diplomacy is, keeping a straight face while kicking your enemy in the balls & asking "Are you alright? Let me help.". But the problem is that the Indian GUBOrment is unlikely to follow these statements with a solid kick on the backside of the Pakis.

Added Later : Photochor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciSG_3-x28

raji · Post by **raji** » 31 May 2009 23:27

Chandragupta wrote:There should'nt be any problems with statements like SM Krishna's. This is what diplomacy is, keeping a straight face while kicking your enemy in the balls & asking "Are you alright? Let me help.". But the problem is that the Indian GUBOrment is unlikely to follow these statements with a solid kick on the backside of the Pakis.

Added Later : Photochor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciSG_3-x28

You are absolutely right.

No one is objecting to friendly statements.

I am only objecting to not following up with a kick on the backside.

If you are incapable of administering a kick on the backside, it is wise then, to refrain from making overly friendly statements. Just makes you look like a wimp......

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Jun 2009 00:36

raghunath wrote:Pak's nuke quest pre-dated India's 1974 test: US report

http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/aug/25atom.htm

The nuclear device tested in 1974 was not an operational design for a weapon. It took about two years to assemble, and was large, unwieldy, and could only be delivered using a transport aircraft. Hence, Indian nuclear scientists referred to it as a "device." It was Rajiv Gandhi, according to the famous Indian defence analyst, K Subrahmanyam, who finally authorised weaponisation in 1988. Shortly afterwards, in 1990, a secret Indian nuclear arsenal came into existence -- eight years before the current series of tests.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world ... n/nuke.htm

As of 1989 it was suggested that Pakistan had a workable bomb weighing only 400 pounds. Pakistan Foreign Minister Yakub Khan was present at the Chinese Lop Nor test site to witness the test of a small nuclear device in May 1983, giving rise to speculation that a Pakistani-assembled device was detonated in this test.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Jun 2009 01:42

Pakistan city centre 'destroyed'

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Jun 2009 02:41

Gerard wrote:Pakistan city centre 'destroyed'

Making a case for drones.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 01 Jun 2009 03:43

Pakistan's Divide-and-Rule Waziristan Plan

SLUMBAD— Expecting to wrap up its military offensive in Swat within days, the government is already preparing for a second front in Waziristan by building an alliance with two of its powerful commanders against top Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud.

"Talks are underway with Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Mullah Nazir to single out Baitullah Mehsud," a senior intelligence official told IslamOnline.net on condition of anonymity.

"I won’t say that talks have turned out to be successful, but I can say with full conviction that there is a considerable progress in this connection."

Powerful Allies

As the army strengthens its positions around restive Waziristan, Islamabad is trying to court the two influential militant commanders who have lately been at odds with Mehsud.

The aim is to form an alliance against Mehsud and his Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), an umbrella of various Taliban groups in the northern tribal belt.

"The support of the two commanders will be crucial vis-à-vis success of the imminent military action in South Waziristan," says the intelligence official.

"If Bahadur agrees to help us, that would be great, but even if he stays neutral there will be no front in North Waziristan. And we would be able to pay attention to South Waziristan."

Bahadur is a powerful commander of North Waziristan. He snatched the control of a large number of militants based in the region after differences with Baitullah Mehsud.

Nazir commands a force of 2000 well-trained militants of the Ahmedzai Wazir tribe, which has had old rivalries with the Mehsud tribe.

Nazir is known as the leader of Punjabi Taliban and is based in Wana, the capital of South Waziristan.

Both Bahadur and Nazir are the most influential TTP commanders after Mehsud.

The three had joined the Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahiddin coalition few months ago.

"The prime agenda of the alliance was to accelerate attacks on NATO troops," says the intelligence official, adding that it did not succeed because Mehsud remained determined to mount attacks inside Pakistan.

"There are no more good ties between Mehsud and the two commanders."

Islamabad has already hatched a strategy to press Mehsud within South Waziristan from two sides with the help of Nazir and Bahadur.

Intelligence agencies have reportedly wooed a small group led by Zaiunddin Mehsud, one of the lieutenants of Baitullah Mehsud who commands a group of 600 militants and who has also had differences with Mehsud lately.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Jun 2009 04:49

Pakistan Expanding Dera Ghazi Khan Nuclear Site
http://www.isis-online.org/publications ... ingCPC.pdf

Pakistan Expanding Plutonium Separation Facility Near Rawalpindi
http://www.isis-online.org/publications ... ewlabs.pdf

Update on the Khushab Plutonium Production Reactor Construction Projects in Pakistan
http://www.isis-online.org/publications ... il2009.pdf

Profitable and Low-Penalty: Illicit Procurement of Items with Nuclear Applications for Pakistan
http://isis-online.org/publications/exp ... eb2009.pdf

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2009 05:10

Testing Pakistan's Resolve - Edit in The Hindu

In recent weeks, a kind of national consensus has developed, fragile though it is, on the necessity of a military response against the militants who were challenging the Pakistani state.

No, not at all. The parties are divided as ever with many openly opposing the on-going military operation. The resolution, drafted by the Government with positive references to the PA, had to be re-drafted with all such references omitted.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Jun 2009 06:03

Iran shuts its border with Pakistan
Some brotherly country!

QUETTA: Iran has closed its border with Pakistan at Taftan and informed the Pakistani government about its decision.

The Iranian move has caused suspension of trade through the area. The suspension of trade has resulted in an acute shortage of foodstuff coming from Iran.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jun 2009 07:36

Brites on the West Coast ,
60 Minutes on cahnnel 5 today gonna interview Bakistani President Dus Numbri, Ass of Ali ,Zardari.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jun 2009 07:46

Raji, I would like you tocontemplate on Bismarck's iron fist in velvet glove policy.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2009 07:53

raghunath wrote:Pak's nuke quest pre-dated India's 1974 test: US report

Pakistan began its pursuit of nuclear weapons in 1972 soon after the 1971 war with India, a new US Congressional report has said, challenging the conventional (and Pakistani) narrative that India's first nuclear test in 1974 was the trigger for its weapons quest.

Even circa 1972 is incorrect. Pakistan's quest for nukes started in late 1964 as soon as the Chinese exploded their first device in October 1964. Pakistan had already forged a friendlier relationship with the Chinese under the young foreign minister ZA Bhutto and even seceded a portion of PoK to them. Ayub Khan and ZAB began a series of manoueveres with the Chinese to get nuclear know-how. In his manuscript "If I am Assassinated" written from his death cell, ZAB has clearly said that the negotiations with the Chinese started in circa 1965 and Foreign Secretary Late Agha Shahi has since confirmed that. It was in 1965 ZAB said "We will eat grass. . . ". So, the Pakistani efforts predate the "Smiling Buddha" by a decade.

shanth · Post by **shanth** » 01 Jun 2009 07:54

Pakistan and the Bomb

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2009 07:56

shanth, kindly use the quote tag to enclose the excerpts.

BTW, that had been posted and discussed.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Jun 2009 08:15

shanth:

As SS suggested, please read the forum, see what others have already said and posted, and then contribute. This tripe from Bruce Riedel has been analyzed and discussed extensively. Please go back and read others' posts.

raji · Post by **raji** » 01 Jun 2009 08:16

ramana wrote:Raji, I would like you tocontemplate on Bismarck's iron fist in velvet glove policy.

Ok, I just finished trying to contemplate it........

Just could not locate a fist.........leave aside an iron fist......hell, I couldnt even locate a finger on the Indian side....I had no difficulty locating many gloves.......not just velvet........but studded in gold and diamonds.......

Also had no difficulty locating tonnes of fist marks on many ordinary Indian faces.....that had Made in Islamic Republic of Pak stamped on them.......

Also, comparing Bismarck's Prussia or Germany to India would be hilarious.......if I didnt feel enormous pain and burden from the collective assaults against us by fascist, imperialist and expansionist Islam over the centuries....Bismarck's Germany was as hard as India is soft........North pole Vs South pole......

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 01 Jun 2009 09:02

raji wrote:
Ok, I just finished trying to contemplate it........

Just could not locate a fist.........leave aside an iron fist......hell, I couldnt even locate a finger on the Indian side....I had no difficulty locating many gloves.......not just velvet........but studded in gold and diamonds.......

Also had no difficulty locating tonnes of fist marks on many ordinary Indian faces.....that had Made in Islamic Republic of Pak stamped on them.......

Also, comparing Bismarck's Prussia or Germany to India would be hilarious.......if I didnt feel enormous pain and burden from the collective assaults against us by fascist, imperialist and expansionist Islam over the centuries....Bismarck's Germany was as hard as India is soft........North pole Vs South pole......

Can you please take this to whining thread? Thanks.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2009 09:10

Lahori Logic

Can a bunch of judges ask a more ridiculous question than this ?

If Pakistan was bound to implement the UN Security Council resolution on Jamat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed, why was India not bound to implement UN resolutions on Kashmir, a full bench of the Lahore High Court wanted to know from Pakistan Attorney-General Latif Khosa on Saturday.

The observation came during the hearing of a petition by Mr. Saeed and another JuD leader Colonel (retired) Nazir Ahmed against their house arrest since December 2008.

But then he surprised the court by also arguing that Mr. Saeed’s detention was “protective,” for his own safety, as well as “preventive,” and it was not the kind of detention that attracted a habeas corpus petition, especially as it was periodically reviewed by a detention extension review board.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Jun 2009 09:51

SSridhar:

When TSP knows it is dealing with a billion cowards in India, any such nonsense makes sense. The same court did not ask questions about USA as scores of TSP scum were dispatched to Guantanamo as per US demands

.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Jun 2009 09:53

Dipanker wrote:
raji wrote:
Ok, I just finished trying to contemplate it........

Just could not locate a fist.........leave aside an iron fist......hell, I couldnt even locate a finger on the Indian side....I had no difficulty locating many gloves.......not just velvet........but studded in gold and diamonds.......

Also had no difficulty locating tonnes of fist marks on many ordinary Indian faces.....that had Made in Islamic Republic of Pak stamped on them.......

Also, comparing Bismarck's Prussia or Germany to India would be hilarious.......if I didnt feel enormous pain and burden from the collective assaults against us by fascist, imperialist and expansionist Islam over the centuries....Bismarck's Germany was as hard as India is soft........North pole Vs South pole......

Can you please take this to whining thred? Thanks.

When someone speaks truth that causes discomfort it is called a whine. And once the caste/category of the post is identified we consign it into he thread reserved for that category. Unless Indians face up to uncomfortable truths about their own countrymen we will keep on getting kicked.

Gandhi was an astute man who used India's weaknesses and made a virtue out of them But after him Indians have neither understood the currency of power nor the tactics of Gandhi. All we know is how to try and deflect criticism of faults that do exist.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jun 2009 10:08

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... an-nexus/1
India-Afghanistan nexus
By Naa man Asshair

One wonders what are the motives behind India's growing investment in Afghanistan when a large number of people are suffering in poverty in slum areas of Bombay? India's interests in Afghanistan include, inter alia, attempts to sandwich Pakistan in collusion with hostile Afghan government. India has officially declared the presence of its fourteen consulates while unofficial reports suggest that almost 107 consulates including 20 RAW intelligence units are working there. India holds the stance that their task is confined to issuing visa but this explanation defies the common sense. Sumit Ganguly, professor of Political Science at Indiana University, has said he never suggested that the Indians have purely humanitarian objectives in Afghanistan. He said that their vigorous attempts to limit Pakistan's reach and influence there stemmed largely from being systematically bled in Kashmir. In other words, Pakistan's apprehensions of security threats arising from India's increasing clout in Afghanistan are not baseless and the US also needs to address our concerns if it wants to commit our full support in war against terrorism

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 01 Jun 2009 10:27

I request BRF elders to kindly stop proxy wars.
TIA

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jun 2009 10:29

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=180596

Keray pasay jawa manjee kithay dawa

( Those who dont know Punjabi, She is asking which direction she can go and where to put her Bed) ( Begum Sahiba, Uncle Sammy and Chinkil Chammy's bedroom is always open for Pakistan)

Begum Ayesha To MMy
They should not forget 1947 where a new country was created out of Muslim-majority provinces and where despite the fact that there was no invitation for the Muslims of other provinces to migrate there was a mass migration. They came destitute and were rehabilitated. It is important for the leadership of the MQM to remember this when they seek to stop the IDP’s at the borders, to empathise with their plight and to remember how they were received when they arrived at the Sindh border.

And Sindhi nationalists need to think this through very carefully. If they restrict the rights of Pakistani citizens to move and live within the country on the basis that their majority within the province could be altered, the same argument can be used to keep them out of Karachi and other cities in Sindh. Too dangerous to contemplate, but contemplate it they must, and decide if it is a precedent they are happy to live with.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2009 10:54

CRamS wrote:. . . any such nonsense makes sense. . . .

CRS, the trouble is that the learned judges are totally clueless. If the UN resolution on Kashmir, which is non-binding in the first place unlike the designation of JuD as a global terrorist organization and Hafeez Saeed as a global terrorist by a duly constituted Sanctions Committee of the UNSC, is to be enforced, Pakistan will have to vacate PoK first, take back all its military, bases, posts, bunkers and non-Kashmiri settlers, hand the territory over to India, India should ensure peace and normalcy and then only other things will follow. That's why I called the observation by the learned judges as ridiculous, not because of the billion+ cowards.

manish · Post by **manish** » 01 Jun 2009 11:45

Prem wrote:http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... an-nexus/1
India-Afghanistan nexus
By Naa man Asshair

India has officially declared the presence of its fourteen consulates while unofficial reports suggest that almost 107 consulates including 20 RAW intelligence units are working there. India holds the stance that their task is confined to issuing visa but this explanation defies the common sense.

107? Why not 100 or 110? Is that a count of cellphone towers or consulates??

And he seems to have missed the part about 700,000,000 ITBP guards on duty.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jun 2009 11:51

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/i ... 286662-102

U.S. and European Policy Toward Terrorism

Product ID: 286662-102
Format: Forum
Last Airing: 05/29/2009
Event Date: 05/29/2009
Length: 1 hour, 35 minutes
Location: Washington, DC, United States

The third of a day-long event titled, "U.S Approaches to Foreign Policy: Strategies of Engagement," focused on U.S. and European approaches to fighting terrorism. Following the discussion, panelists responded to audience members' questions.

Pakistan is discussed quite often

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 01 Jun 2009 13:35

Four dead in Kohat bus terminal blast