Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2009 06:59

going around with begging bowl to donor nations, scoping out his chances for asylum...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 06 Jun 2009 07:02

Here's another reason for the pookies to feel good about themselves.
Presidential level security for porki cricketers

Pak players happy under ‘presidential-level’ security cover

LONDON: Pakistan’s cricketers have been kept under a strict security blanket here for the ICC World Twenty20 Championship but neither of them is complaining about it.


A senior Pakistan team official said here on Friday that his squad has been provided with almost ‘presidential’ level security cover in England with highly-trained bodyguards protecting them round-the-clock. “I don’t know about the other teams, but we have been provided with an excellent security cover,” said Yawar Saeed.


WooHoo!!
Now the next statement, I swear I am not making this one up:

The waterproof security arrangements carried out by the event’s organisers to ensure that the tournament is staged smoothly were quite evident when the Pakistani team arrived here at South Gate for a practice session on Friday. There were security people posted at entrance of the venue and when the team bus arrived there, it had a couple of security guards on board.


“There are security people posted on our floor at the tem hotel, who seem to be very highly-trained and efficient.”


Yawar said that when he and his team landed in London last week, they were greeted with armed guards at the Heathrow. :lol:


We are used to these kind of conditions because whenever we play we have a lot of security,” said Younis. “This time it is a very high-level and we are happy.”


I guess the porkis don't know it yet but that round-the-clock-security is to prevent them from skipping town and getting genital warts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 06 Jun 2009 07:05

"We are in a state of war": Pooki cricket captain

LONDON: Pakistan’s team officials on Friday rubbished reports that they’ve been asked to explain alleged comments made by skipper Younis Khan about Pakistan being in a state of war.


“Its all rubbish,” said Yawar.


A report that appeared on a few Indian websites claimed that the captain’s comment that Pakistan is in a state of war has upset the PCB, which feels Younis’s remarks will hurt the country’s chances of convincing the International Cricket Council (ICC) that it is safe to play international cricket here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2009 07:08

ONE guy is released by the Pakistanis and the US issues a travel advisory!!!!

The US is SO scared that this guy would harm their citizen/s in an entire subcontinent.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2009 07:10

Cricket I thought was unIslamic.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Airavat » 06 Jun 2009 07:20

Naidu wrote:If I remember right, it was a generic term used for all British-trained Indian troops who fought against the Moghals in 1857. Most of these troops were from Bengal, Bihar, etc. (essentially Purbias), but the "Tilanga" name stuck. Telugu troops were first recruited by the British for their campaigns in the South against Tipu, etc., I believe.


Yes, Telinga was a generic term for infantryman; the writeup also mentions Purabiyas. But Telingas as modern infantry were first recruited into the Hyderabad Nizam's army, trained by Frenchmen. It later became a generic term; even the infantry camp in the far north state of Kangra was called the "Telinga Lines".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby ramana » 06 Jun 2009 07:25

Too bad! :((

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 06 Jun 2009 07:46

NRao wrote:Cricket I thought was unIslamic.


You are right. Playing Cricket for Pakistan is considered Un-Islamic. See mention of that here:

.............. When a fatwa bank linked from a school24 tells a boy that dreaming of playing cricket for Pakistan is forbidden because it is a sacrilegious waste of time, ……….........

Music, Chess and other Sins: Segregation, Integration and Muslim Schools in Britain


The fatwa referred above declaring cricket Un-Islamic, is available here:

Cricket is Un-Islamic Fatwa

Care!. The file "Music, Chess and other Sins: Segregation, Integration and Muslim Schools in Britain" is over an MB in size.
Last edited by arun on 06 Jun 2009 07:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 06 Jun 2009 07:48

Duplicate Self deleted.
Last edited by arun on 06 Jun 2009 07:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2009 07:49

On a more serious note (oh, yeah Pakistan and serious), revisiting: U.S. experts: Pakistan on course to become Islamist state

First of all, my prediction of June 2009 end - the disintegration of Pakistan as we know it. Rather spooky.

But,............... it is very, very strange that the West and US in particular, STILL expects the Pakistani elite to be the solutions!!! Have not yet come to the conclusion that they are patently wrong.

"The place is beyond redemption," said a Pentagon adviser who asked not to be further identified so he could speak freely. "I don't see any plausible scenario under which the present government or its most likely successor will mobilize the economic, political and security resources to push back this rising tide of violence.

"I think Pakistan is moving toward a situation where the extremists control virtually all of the countryside and the government controls only the urban centers," he continued. "If you look out 10 years, I think the government will be overrun by Islamic militants."


Then we have (self survival kicking in):

"The implications of this are disastrous for the U.S.," he added. "The supply lines (from Karachi to U.S. bases) in Kandahar and Kabul from the south and east will be cut, or at least they'll be less secure, and probably sooner rather than later, and that will jeopardize the mission in Afghanistan, especially now that it's getting bigger."


And, finally:

Pakistan's fragmentation into warlord-run fiefdoms that host al Qaida and other terrorist groups would have grave implications for the security of its nuclear arsenal; for the U.S.-led effort to pacify Afghanistan; and for the security of India, the nearby oil-rich Persian Gulf and Central Asia, the U.S. and its allies.


This last quote I feel will compel the US to agree to fragment Pakistan - ONLY for the good of the US, IMHO of course. Now that they are loosing faith in the civilian AND military leadership of Pakistan.

Two more observation, I think this is also the end of the interdependency between the top of the Pakistani Army and the non-military Islamists. The final crack will have to be within the military itself, when they fragment into the Islamists and "secular" (as defined by the US).

Secondly, IMHO, June marks the end of Obama Af-Pak "policy". I feel that a very weak Clinton will visit New Delhi in July - IF at all. I can see events in Pakistan over taking her visit to India - not that it matters. The last chapter in Holbrooks autobiography will be incomplete if not a total failure.

IF at all Obama wants to shore up his Af-Pak he better reintroduce India in a big way into the equation. The US cannot solve this problem any longer. Predictable as it was long back.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2009 07:55

China to a lesser extent, but certainly Saudi Arabia is part of the problem. They cannot solve anything in Af-Pak.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby AmitR » 06 Jun 2009 08:51

Taliban strikes back.

Army convoy ambushed in Sakhakot, deaths feared

RAWALPINDI: Many deaths have been feared as unknown terrorist have attacked on convoy of Pakistan army near Sakhakot area here early on Saturday, Geo news exclusively reported.

According to ISPR, the Pakistan army convoy was heading to Peshawar from Malakand Division when it came under attack near Sakhakot area here, which the army soldiers retaliated but many deaths have been feared, in the deadly ambush.

Exchange of fire is still continue between both sides while many death from two sides have been predicted, ISPR added.

http://www.geo.tv/6-6-2009/43599.htm

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby AmitR » 06 Jun 2009 08:53

Shahi says operation Rah-e-Rast anti-Pakhtun

Updated at: 0338 PST, Saturday, June 06, 2009
KARACHI: The president Awami National Party (ANP) Sindh Shahi Syed has termed the ongoing military offensive Rah-e-Rast against Taliban in Swat and Malakand Division as anti-Pakhtun as our community is suffering more than militants.

He said Pakhtuns must not be kept in relief camps as internally displaced persons (IDPs) and helpless people instead they should be rehabilitated in the earliest possible time.

In a statement released from ANP Sindh here on Friday, it is asserted by Shahi Syed that lip services rather than practical measures from government have been multiplying the miseries of (IDPs).

“The operation has tuned the catastrophe more for the Swat and Buner people instead of dismantling the networks of terrorists”, he added.


http://www.geo.tv/6-6-2009/43589.htm

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 06 Jun 2009 09:19

Students of Pakistani “Piskology” should not miss this one.

This RAPEtte laments that Pakistan’s love for Arabs is ignored and not reciprocated :(( :

Saturday, June 06, 2009

The ‘Important’ Muslims —Rafia Zakaria

…………… This point, emphasised repeatedly in the coverage of Obama’s speech by Al Jazeera, Al Arabiyya and other networks, should be worthy of note to Pakistanis. Not only did several Arab anchors refuse to acknowledge the refugee crisis and civil war in Pakistan as a pressing issue facing the Muslim world, they quite indifferently discarded it as something inconsequential to the Arab
world. ……………….....

The extent of the Arab world’s disinterest in American policies in Afghanistan and Pakistan is notable not as much for the alleged hypocrisy it could expose between President Obama’s speech and American policy, but rather in the crude disjunct between the interest and influence of Arab issues on the Pakistani psyche. ……………......

So complete is the Pakistani obsession with the plight of their Arab brothers that in reacting to the speech itself, Pakistani politicians like Imran Khan focused less on the mess at hand and more on the necessity and ability of President Obama to answer to his promises regarding the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. ………………........

Daily Times

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 10:35

anupmisra wrote:Sherry due in Delhi
Sherry to address Pak-Afghan-India trialogue in Delhi


All part of Track-II, however much SM Krishna tries to fudge the issue by saying 'No Talks till Terrorism is reined in'.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 11:03

India and the Taliban - Zafar Hilaly

India will recall that in a similar situation, when the boot was on the other foot, Ayub Khan went out of his way to assure India, via the US, that Pakistan had no intention of taking advantage of India's preoccupation with China and, what is more, added not one extra soldier to the normal peace-time deployment on the India-Pakistan border.


No, that's false Mr. Hilaly. Ayub Khan simply refused to do so even as Kennedy and his Ambassador to Pakistan urged Ayub to make "a positive gesture of sympathy and restraint". He told the US Ambassador that he had no sympathy for the Indians and in turn asked the Americans to put pressure on India to solve the Kashmir issue now that the Americans had leverage with the Indians becasue of the arms supply. In fact, the public mood in Pakistan was that Pakistan should exploit the situation by attacking India. The US expected Pakistan as part of SEATO and CENTO to meet the Communist challenge. Kennedy's decision to help India offended Ayub no ends for he was angered by the US not 'consulting' Pakistan before taking such a decision. In a letter to Pres. Kennedy, Ayub Khan expressed 'obvious personal hurt' especially as the US was 'unsympathetic' to Pakistani interests. Then Ayub announced the new policy decision by Pakistan of accepting China as a new friend when he stated to the Pakistani Parliamentarians that "the threat from Hindu imperialism was far greater than international communism".

For way too long, Pakistan has been able to have the cake and eat it too.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 11:53

TNSM Dy. Chief and Spokespeson killed, claims TSPA

The naib ameer of Tahreek-e-Nifaz Shariat Muhammadi(TNSM) Maulana Muhammad Alam and spokesman Ameer Izzat Khan have been killed during clash between security forces and militants in Sakhakot on Saturday morning. According to ISPR, a security forces convoy carrying prisoners including Maulana Muhammad Alam and Ameer Izzat Khan attacked by militants in Sakhakot. The prisoners were being shifted from Malakand to Peshawar. A non-commissioned officer of Pakistan army has been martyred and five other personnel hurt during intense trade of fire between security forces and militants. Maulana Alam and Ameer Izzat Khan were also killed during firing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 06 Jun 2009 14:02

SSridhar wrote:India and the Taliban - Zafar Hilaly

India will recall that in a similar situation, when the boot was on the other foot, Ayub Khan went out of his way to assure India, via the US, that Pakistan had no intention of taking advantage of India's preoccupation with China and, what is more, added not one extra soldier to the normal peace-time deployment on the India-Pakistan border.


No, that's false Mr. Hilaly. Ayub Khan simply refused to do so even as Kennedy and his Ambassador to Pakistan urged Ayub to make "a positive gesture of sympathy and restraint". He told the US Ambassador that he had no sympathy for the Indians and in turn asked the Americans to put pressure on India to solve the Kashmir issue now that the Americans had leverage with the Indians becasue of the arms supply................


While the US did certainly call on Pakistan to demonstrate to India “a positive gesture of sympathy and restraint”, the US equally obliged Ayub Khan by attempting to leverage India’s need for arms during this time of grave peril into a Kashmir settlement :wink: .

Retired career diplomat Chinmaya R. Gharekhan :

Saturday, May 19, 2001

The LoC & Kashmir

By Chinmaya R. Gharekhan

……….. The Americans had made it clear to us that it would be very difficult for them to persuade Congress to agree to sell military equipment, which India needed to defend itself against China, unless India settled the Kashmir question. ………........

The Hindu

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 14:49

arun, several things happened then. First, Ayub refused to take the letter from Kennedy and asked the US Ambassador to hand it over to his Foreign Minister. Then he deliberately took sometime to reply to that letter and when he did reply he expressed his anger and made sarcastic references. The US immediately toned down its approach and started assuaging Ayub's hurt feelings. It re-assured Pakistan that it will come to Pakistan's assistance 'in the event of aggression from India' (Those who still believe that the Mutual Defence Assistance AGreement of circa 1954 was not against India, please take note) Ayub then insisted that the US should make this assurance public. The US obliged by releasing a statement that conveyed the meaning in a round-about way. This didn't please Ayub Khan. He sent a new memo blasting the US. All these had happened by mid-November, 1962. On Nov. 14, the Chinese renewed their attack vigorously. Immediately, Nehru wrote to Kennedy asking for specific military help. Kennedy sent his personal representative to India and this angered Ayub even more when he made that famous 'Hindu Imperialism Vs. International Communism' comment. The US Special Representative then went to Pakistan to mollify Ayub Khan. The US offered to Pakistan that it will force Nehru to the discussion table. The British PM Harold McMillan clearly took the Pakistani side and said "We support the people who are troublesome, such as, Nehru and Krishna Menon, and abandon the people who support us . . {a clear reference to Pakistan}". Kennedy wrote to Ayub that the US assistance to India was 'frugal' for which Ayub replied that it still altered the 'strategic balance'. Of course, India was pressured to attend the peace dialogue with Pakistan when Sardar Swaran Singh represented India and chewed up ZAB.

(See Dennis Kux)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 15:03

Pak. misusing aid only to build up army against India: Pentagon

Really confusing to me. It is the Pentagon which has sold most of these and it is the US Government that funded and approved all these charade. So, whom are they fooling now ?
It is like the same story in the 80s when the CIA and the US Customs had clear evidence of Pakistan building the bombs clandestinely and yet the US government winked and even helped Pakistan by even arm-twisting other countries like the Netherlands and Switzerland. Later, when they wanted it the other way, the US started accusing Pakistan. Again, when they wanted Pakistan's support, they made AQK the scapegoat who the US said had kept under its surveillance for two decades and yet didn't realize what mischief he, the Pakistani Army and the Pakistani Presidents/Prime Ministers were up to ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RajeshA » 06 Jun 2009 15:59

There is so much anti-Indian crap in Pakistan, India does need a good broom. We need a few well-trained groups who work in cells and do the needful like bumping off the likes of Hafiz Saeed Mohammed, Dawood Ibrahim, etc.

If India deems it unfit to bump off people in the Pakistani regime, than that is understandable. One does not really wish to get into an assassination duel with TSP. But garbage like Saeed and Dawood can be bumped easily.

There are so many groups one could theoretically approach: the MQM gangs, the Pushtun gangs, BLA, Afghan assets in Pakistan, etc. There is absolutely no reason for all these people to be alive. Every politician in India should watch the film 'Munich', and take an example from it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Mahendra » 06 Jun 2009 16:12

Hush! Kafir

The movie Munich is not secular, if the babus watch it, they might just ban it, dont make such atrocious statements against our strategic partner nation

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Dipanker » 06 Jun 2009 16:14



Trying to put pressure on Pakis to extract more concessions?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 06 Jun 2009 17:34

Mushy's interview with Russian TV
Hilarious in parts. This is a new website called "PakistanWatch on Youtube".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 17:42

Pakistan seeks nclear deal with the US on the same lines as India

Considering the speed with which reverse GUBO is taking place, I won't be surprised if this happens too.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RajeshA » 06 Jun 2009 18:07

Pakistan's Wishlist:

1. Whole Pakistan debt to be written off.
2. Billions for the IDPs, Huge new sums of Aid.
3. Nuclear Deal on the pattern of Indo-US Nuclear Deal
4. Drone Technology, Ownership of Drones
5. More military assistance
6. Peace talks with India with no 'preconditions'
7. American mediation on Kashmir
8. Duty-Free export of Pakistani Textiles into USA
9. 'Compensation' for river water blockage by India
10. No deportation of Pakistani terrorist students from UK
11. Shutting down all the 131 million Indian consulates in Afghanistan
.....

I do hope America gets out of Afghanistan soon, otherwise some day even Pakistanis would run out of things to wish for.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 06 Jun 2009 18:09

ISI is not a rogue agency...Not!!
A back-handed slap?

WASHINGTON, June 5: The ISI is not a rogue intelligence agency, as it mostly follows the prerogatives of the Pakistani military or civilian leadership, says Bruce Riedel, chairman of the Obama administration’s Afghanistan-Pakistan strategy review. At a recent talk on the Pakistani intelligence agency at Washington’s International Spy Museum, Mr Riedel defined the ISI’s alleged links to various militant groups as “fighting some, tolerating others and patronising a few.”
So, the PA or Civilian leadership ihas gone rogue?

The talk focussed on the real or perceived links between the ISI and those who carried out the November 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai. Mr Riedel described the ISI as a “remarkably agile espionage instrument” but dismissed the suggestion that it was not under the government’s control. But he warned that “the ISI has clearly been penetrated by some of these extreme jihadist groups” that it created to do jihad first in Afghanistan and then in Kashmir. “When you have attacks inside fortified compounds” — like the one last week in Lahore — “those are being done by someone who’s working a double game. But that doesn’t mean the agency itself is a rogue organisation. It means it’s been penetrated.
So, many in ISI have turned rogue?

Mr Riedel, however, said that there were no indications that the ISI had a cooperative relationship with Al Qaeda or the Pakistani Taliban, but groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba saw little problem cooperating with one another. “Selective counter-terrorism is weak counter-terrorism, because the bad guys tend to operate together,” he said.
What!! So, LeT is not ISI supported?

Despite such concerns, Mr Riedel said, the ISI continued to be one of CIA’s most important partners in the war against extremists.
:eek:

During the Q&A, Mr Riedel criticised the term “Af-Pak” that some in the Obama administration used to indicate the inter-connectedness of the two nations. “I don’t think anyone on this panel used the terminology Af-Pak and I’m glad they didn’t. I think it’s insulting.
More insulting than than FukAp?

Mr Shuja Nawaz explained how the ISI evolved from a small, insignificant agency within the army to one of the world’s premier spy agencies. The ISI, however, became a leading spy agency during the Afghan war and has retained its role since then.
Thus speaketh a loyal paki.

Ambassador Schaffer reviewed US-Pakistan relations since early 1950s, when Pakistan was America’s most “allied ally”. The relationship grew stronger during the Afghan war but weakened in 1990 when Pakistan became the “most sanctioned ally”. After 9/11, the relationship improved. But, she explained, from the very beginning there’s a clash of interests between the two allies.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jun 2009 18:22

anupmisra wrote:Mushy's interview with Russian TV
Hilarious in parts.


It is. :lol: The interviewer asks "What's your opinion about the deteriorating situation in Pakistan" and our man Musharraf says, "Yes, it can, it will, it has to"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 06 Jun 2009 18:50

Dipanker wrote:


Trying to put pressure on Pakis to extract more concessions?


And, to matters worse an Indian paper making a big issue about a topic that is a clear as the sun on a cloudless day!!! And has been for decades.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby svenkat » 06 Jun 2009 20:41

anupmisra wrote:ISI is not a rogue agency...Not!!
[/b].”
So, the PA or Civilian leadership ihas gone rogue?

[
Mr Riedel, however, said that there were no indications that the ISI had a cooperative relationship with Al Qaeda or the Pakistani Taliban, but groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba saw little problem cooperating with one another. “Selective counter-terrorism is weak counter-terrorism, because the bad guys tend to operate together,” he said.
What!! So, LeT is not ISI supported?

Mishraji,

Al-Qaeda and Paki Taliban are not ISI supported. LeT is.And LeT co-operates with Al-Qaeda.The amirkhans do not give a damn for India.Their takleef is LeT doesnt just stick to Mumbai barbarism and there is a little bit collateral damage on jews,whites and may target them directly in the future.

Despite such concerns, Mr Riedel said, the ISI continued to be one of CIA’s most important partners in the war against extremists.
:eek:

Mr Shuja Nawaz explained how the ISI evolved from a small, insignificant agency within the army to one of the world’s premier spy agencies. The ISI, however, became a leading spy agency during the Afghan war and has retained its role since then.
[color=#0000FF]

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Jun 2009 20:44

Subanallah..IED Mubarak in Slumbad...police station hit..watch for more.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Jun 2009 20:46

Blast at Islamabad police station

At least one person has died in a blast at a police building in the Pakistani capital Islamabad, reports say.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby svinayak » 06 Jun 2009 20:49

http://pwyoutube.wordpress.com/2009/05/ ... interview/

Fareed Zakaria

Fareed Zakaria who has been editor at Newsweek who supported the push by Bush into Iraq. Now spreads his “jihalat” in his role as TV personality at CNN.

This guy pushed his “subcontinental” credentials in his time at Newsweek (he is from a Muslim family in India).

He wound up supporting Bush and much of the hype around Bush’s wrong-headed policies. Now when the tables have turned, he is in the process of doing an about face.

Has just published a book – is he going to dish out any better analysis this time ?

That is what happens when you get the “token subcontinental” at the head of an organization. In order to survive they try to act “more loyal than the Queen”. They try to act to make sure the organization doesn’t regret passing the mantle to a “foreigner”.

In most cases their subcontinentalness is useless for insight into Pakistan/India because they usually bring a childhood or early adolescent view of the situation there, or are unduly biased by what they hear from their family. In contrast western journalists may feel they are clueless and wind up learning from a wider array of sources.

The subcontinentals thus contribute no greater insight than other journalists might, in fact they may carry their own baggage of biases.

Although to be fair, most subcontinentals WILL favour their native lands when push comes to shove – however most (esp. if they left at an early age for the U.S.) have not examined their own cultures in much detail and have instead adopted the western ideals as the dominant ones. There ARE immigrants who WILL have a sense of their own culture – usually out of blind faith in native country – these will be seen as “too native” by Americans. Then there can be the thinking immigrants who have a sense of culture and understand it’s weaknesses and strengths, but these will not usually wind up on a career path at Newsweek. These people will usually also be the ones who have seen conditions in Pakistan at a post-adolescent level and this type of person will ALSO not be at Newsweek – they will have had to spend the bulk of their lifetimes outside the U.S.

Unless one is a true scholar/philosopher a person like Fareed Zakaria will forever be in tension to appear to Americans as “one of them” – to secure his seat. They may entertain positive feelings about Pakistan/India but they can’t air them for fear it will be misunderstood. They may however become more critical so they can at another time be positive about something. End result is still that they are critical most of the time. This behaviour can get out of hand and they can start to develop their own sense of what Pakistan/India should be – and this will usually be informed by input from friends and family, or their own sense, but it may not be something that leads naturally from the conditions prevailing on the streets of their native country.

When they visit their native land they may not learn much as well, because when these people visit their home countries they may feel a vulnerability – they are open to charges of abandoning their country or taking up oath of another sovereign power. This may limit their ability to mix in as well. Or they may develop an insulated “attitude” to shield them from accusations of abandoning their native land – oddly enough that is the attitude many “well to do” people develop in Pakistan/India.

Also, since the first generation immigrants have lived their early life in the native countries they may carry the sensibilities of the period they were in Pakistan (in many cases the country may have moved on, but these immigrants will STILL be left in a freeze-frame sensibility that harkens back to that period). They may thus carry the ethnic, or caste attitudes with them as well. If they DO visit those countries they prefer to return as “elevated personalities”, stay at posh hotels – why ? – because to NOT do that would give them a sense that they have not “achieved something by leaving India”. Otherwise what was the use of losing touch with your native culture and land.

For all these reasons first generation immigrants carry all these weights.

Second-generation immigrants

These however disappear for most second-generation immigrants. Who for the most part know the new country MORE than any other country. Also they speak without an accent, which is the first sign of nativeness (or “he’s stayed here long enough to be trustable”) and perhaps more important, when challenged to “go back to your home country”, they fight vigorously against it BECAUSE they have no choice – they know no other country as much as the new country. And this is the first sign that you ARE a citizen of that country.

With regard to people like Fareed Zakaria, they too lack the ability to be “uppity”, or disrespectful towards more native citizen’s ideals – that is, they do not feel an element of entitlement. A western person or even a second generation immigrant has no such problems, because their citizenship is not under question. Even if they are called ethnic slurs, they KNOW they have no other country they know better – so out of desperation they will fight to challenge that accusation.

That is NOT the case with first generation immigrants in the U.S. who may vividly remember their childhood or early adulthood in their native countries. When accused of having dual allegiances, they may feel there IS some truth to that, even if it is a miniscule preference or angst for their native land (and perhaps childhood memories, which can so impact people’s sense of “home”).

Also from the point of view of the organization (like Newsweek here), if a subcontinental was chosen it is far more likely they were seen to be “toeing the line”, or a “safe bet”.

This almost always guarantees that you get LESS diversity when you hire an “exotic” head of an organization.

Not only do they not know their native place as well, but they are reluctant to criticize their new country as much either.

So even while Fareed Zakaria may seem to Americans like someone who would “know Pakistan or India”, in reality maybe totally out of touch with the sense on the streets in his native country (India) because he has been separated by time and space, even though he retains the skin colour, the accent and the memories of that place.


Singha
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2009 20:50

I believe its the same building where a bum went off last week.

geo tv.

Suicide attack on Rescue-15 office kills cop in Isb
Updated at: 2119 PST, Saturday, June 06, 2009
Suicide attack on Rescue-15 office kills cop in Isb ISLAMABAD: One policeman has been killed and three others injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance of Rescue-15 building here on Saturday.

According to Geo news correspondent Asim Rana, policemen stationed at the main gate of Rescue-15 offered resistance and shot dead the accomplice of the suicide bomber. Terrorists also tried to attack the building a few days ago but security forces foiled the bid.

sunilUpa
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Jun 2009 20:53

Slumbad attack was on Rescue 15 station.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Ananya » 06 Jun 2009 20:54

One funny aspect which Americans and Nato are confronted is they do not know who is in and who is out. weather ISI is good or bad . Pak govt is good or bad ; Mush is good or bad , if Zadaari is good then they are confronted with his secretaty if that person is good or bad.

they are unable to understand the logic of TSP. and they are seeing $ go drown the hole.

in short the 160 Million people do not know if they are good or Bad.... :rotfl:

a funny situation indeed !!!!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Mahendra » 06 Jun 2009 20:56

Must be a soosai bummer with very low self esteem or must be someone who just scraped thorough his soosai bummer course because of recommendations, this 1 :1 ratio is unacceptable, media should stop reporting it if less than 15 are shaheed

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby sum » 06 Jun 2009 21:00

sunilUpa wrote:Slumbad attack was on Rescue 15 station.

Is this Rescue 15(wonder who gives these names :roll: ) building some sort of ISI/agencies safe house to hold high value targets for interrogation? (A random building blown up in Lahore last year had turned out to be a ISI safehouse later)

Otherwise, why should a "innocent" building like that be hit twice?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2009 21:13

indeed. must be some hidden purpose behind the innocent outer mask.

maybe some talibs were ill treated there, so they want to get the dogs who did that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Jun 2009 21:29

vaman wrote:Must be a soosai bummer with very low self esteem or must be someone who just scraped thorough his soosai bummer course because of recommendations, this 1 :1 ratio is unacceptable, media should stop reporting it if less than 15 are shaheed


Very incompetent indeed. The teaching standards of LMU are falling.. :((


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