Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 03 Jun 2009 15:50

We need to attack paksitan first. And they will soon provide that opportunity with the next big terror strike, but when they launch a terror strike they will also tend to be prepared better. But still, when the iron is hot we must strike them and strike hard, a nuke launched at the heart of all their cities and major population centres. Outlying areas cleared out by biological, chemical weapons. And the final sanitisation operation by Indians in NBC-shielded platforms. We may miss a few of their n-tipped missiles esp if they are road-transported. but what the hell, we can't have everything our way.

there is not going to be any tomorrow and we would wait for that forever. Seal this for ever, now or never. Even God doesn't side with those who wait around to let things happen.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 03 Jun 2009 16:14

Raju wrote:We need to attack paksitan first. And they will soon provide that opportunity with the next big terror strike, but when they launch a terror strike they will also tend to be prepared better. But still, when the iron is hot we must strike them and strike hard, a nuke launched at the heart of all their cities and major population centres. Outlying areas cleared out by biological, chemical weapons. And the final sanitisation operation by Indians in NBC-shielded platforms. We may miss a few of their n-tipped missiles esp if they are road-transported. but what the hell, we can't have everything our way.

there is not going to be any tomorrow and we would wait for that forever. Seal this for ever, now or never. Even God doesn't side with those who wait around to let things happen.

IMHO, India will not act until its ABM shield is completely deployed, airforce fully functional to deal with PRC aggression and Navy completing its ongoing modernisation. Indian strike has to be necessarily pre-emptive and not as response to some terror strike by pakis.. It has to come on our chosen time, not theirs... terror strikes are traps... responding to them in the manner they want us to, should be avoided.. Indians have been doing that very chankianly...

The strike should be and most probably will be, pre-emptive and complete...until we don't know what to do with the defeated TSP, we should not even think of defeating them...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 16:36

Chiron, that is a never-ending process. We have to have ABM shield, we have to have anti-satellite weapon, we have to network-centre all our forces, the ATVs/Akulas should be in place, our economy should have been growing at a GDP rate of 10%+ for ten consecutive years, we should have Agni 3+ in production, hypersonic Brahmos should be available, six AWACS, 20 air-to-air refuellers, . . . the list is endless. The enemy will not be keeping quiet in the meanwhile. Remember the three-and-a-half friends of the enemy are helping him generously all the time. This is a very defensive thinking. Of course, we cannot madly rush in but we have silently borne assault after terrible assault for two decades now, nothing less, two decades. We don't have a plan yet and a place and time of our choice has not come yet ?

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 16:41

IMHO, India will not act until its ABM shield is completely deployed, airforce fully functional to deal with PRC aggression and Navy completing its ongoing modernisation. Indian strike has to be necessarily pre-emptive and not as response to some terror strike by pakis.. It has to come on our chosen time, not theirs... terror strikes are traps... responding to them in the manner they want us to, should be avoided.. Indians have been doing that very chankianly...

The strike should be and most probably will be, pre-emptive and complete...until we don't know what to do with the defeated TSP, we should not even think of defeating them...

Agree with everything you said broadly. Indians have been very chanakianly not fallen into the trap set for us post-26/11. But at the sametime we fell to the other extreme and did nothing. Instead we should have done other things, of course GOI concentrated on 'diplomatic drive', but didnt work and now we know it would never work. So, instead we need to really bolster our covert ability and eliminate those pigs that we want to. For example, why beg before UN to blacklist him, why not simply liquidate him? Remember, pakiland today is one of the most backward society where ppl sell their fidayeen service to highest bidder(of course, the bidder needs to have the cloak of islam). Why is RAW/India not availing those services?
If culprit cant be brought to justice, then justice must be brought to culprit. In halal terms: if moosa cant go to pahad, pahad must come to musa.......

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 03 Jun 2009 16:45

The shadow war in Balochistan

FM mullahs spread the Taliban's word

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 17:08

VinodTK wrote:FM mullahs spread the Taliban's word

From the above, an interesting tidbit . .

Besides the tribal areas and the Swat Valley, there is a growing tendency to launch pirate FM stations in the urban centers of the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP). Big cities like Charsadda, Mardan and Swabi have more than 100 Islamist pirate radio stations. The Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (PEMRA) estimates the number of these FM Mullahs to be around 300. Most of these Mullahs are highly influential; some of them are even members of parliament. Maulana Abdullah Shah's FM station in Charsadda and Maulana Tayyeb's radio station in Panj Pir are very popular.

These FM channels have served the cause of the Taliban in radicalizing Pashtun society and winning them legitimacy for terrorist activities carried out in the name of religion. They use the airwaves to incite people to jihad, redefine the role of women and intimidate the public by announcing the names of tribal elders, "spies" and security officials who are to be killed or hanged.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 03 Jun 2009 17:10

some for you guys are dreaming and day dreaming at that that about Nuke srikes , ABM's etc etc.

We have no need to take the war that far , none what so ever - TSP by not conducting a fake trial and releasing prime accused is doing us a great favor , it is changing the mentality of Puke loving people (especially those high up).

We are more than capable of paying TSP back in the same coin , using water , Balochistan , economic influence etc etc.

Arms race or overt aggression is futile.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 17:16

Nihat wrote:some for you guys are dreaming and day dreaming at that that about Nuke srikes , ABM's etc etc.

We have no need to take the war that far , none what so ever - TSP by not conducting a fake trial and releasing prime accused is doing us a great favor , it is changing the mentality of Puke loving people (especially those high up).

We are more than capable of paying TSP back in the same coin , using water , Balochistan , economic influence etc etc.

Arms race or overt aggression is futile.

Are you saying that we are holding back ourselves on water, balochistan....etc just becoz our higher ups have/had puke-loving mentality?

I thought, only gujral suffered from that disease, perhaps atalji to a small extent, but is that mentality still there?!?

PS: covert strikes, balochistan(and even sindh perhaps), economic influence are all good. but arms race is not futile.
becoz it bridges the gap between us and chinis and it makes the pakis go mad and try to compete with us with their bankrupt economy. Otherwise, they just might use all that aid to build some good organisations.....

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 17:24

India says keen to normalise relations with Pakistan

India said on Wednesday it was looking to normalise relations with Islamabad through diplomatic channels and was closely monitoring developments in Pakistan, a day after angrily reacting to the release of a militant leader.

"India will work through the diplomatic channels to pursue the objective of bringing about normalcy in our relationship with Pakistan," Indian Foreign Minister Somanahalli Mallaiah Krishna told reporters in New Delhi.

Well, I'm speechless.

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 17:34

Is the US after our nukes? —Ijaz Hussain

Tthe frequency with which the US administration (in tandem with the American media and think tanks, which, like their Indian counterparts, are always ready to play along with the American administration) is churning out these statements and the medium (i.e. the media as opposed to diplomatic channels) that it has wittingly chosen to do so give the impression that its intentions go much beyond that. It seems to be preparing international opinion for military action to take out these nukes for “safe international custody” on the ground that the Pakistani government is too fragile and helpless to take care of them.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 17:35

Well, apart from loss of lives, maiming, loss of property, uprooted dreams etc of innocent Indians, our inaction has also earned us this dubious distinction

India, along with other adjoining South Asian countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Yemen, is classified under the most extreme category of 'severe threats' on Terrorism Threat Map created by leading security consultancy firms for 2009.

According to Map released on Tuesday, the countries 'most afflicted' by terrorist incidents in 2008 were Pakistan, Iraq, India and Afghanistan.

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 17:44

More baksheesh to Pakis

Bowing to a long standing demand, the US has promised to supply four helicopters to Pakistan for its counter-insurgency operations in the country’s troubled northwest, a top American diplomat has said.

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 17:49

Pakistan budget is highest ever at Rs2,900bn

The size of Pakistan’s national budget for next fiscal year 2009-10, which begins on July 1, is likely to be increased by Rs210bn from the last financial year to Rs2,900bn, the highest ever.

Where are the Pakis going to get this kind of money. Baksheesh I guess.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Jun 2009 18:02

SSridhar wrote:We have to have ABM shield, we have to have anti-satellite weapon, we have to network-centre all our forces, the ATVs/Akulas should be in place, our economy should have been growing at a GDP rate of 10%+ for ten consecutive years, we should have Agni 3+ in production, hypersonic Brahmos should be available, six AWACS, 20 air-to-air refuellers, . . . the list is endless. The enemy will not be keeping quiet in the meanwhile. Remember the three-and-a-half friends of the enemy are helping him generously all the time. This is a very defensive thinking. Of course, we cannot madly rush in but we have silently borne assault after terrible assault for two decades now, nothing less, two decades. We don't have a plan yet and a place and time of our choice has not come yet ?

An end game for next door problem which does require fully prepared armed forces can take several forms:
a) India breaks up Pakistan into manageable units
b) India wages Talibanic terror and converts the 200 million Pakistanis to a more tolerable form of Islam
c) India nukes Pakistan into oblivion

India should be sufficiently prepared to either fight a full war with the 3½ Friends of Pakistan, or to be able to scare them off.

The intermediate retaliation against Pakistan for its terrorism can take several forms with different aims
a) we cripple the economy by systematically diverting the Indus Waters to feed our own rivers. We need the canalization in place;
b) we take out the 'militant' organizations in Pakistan through covert attacks and assassinations;
c) we take out the terrorist infrastructure through overt attacks using missiles and IAF;
d) we punish the military and ISI by destroying their headquarters and offices, including the assassination of terrorist handlers;
e) we destroy military infrastructure like airfields and navy ships;
f) we attack and reclaim some more areas in PoK for every terrorist attack in India;

Intermediate steps are important, so that India does not invite further attacks on the premise that India is weak or cowardly. Secondly once we decide to administer intermediate medicine to Pakistan, it should become part of policy that every terrorist attack on India will invite a retaliation at a time of our choosing. However we must also ensure that these intermediate retaliation do not invite a nuclear response.

Intermediate retaliations however have undesired consequences also, which can run counter to our long-term goals.
a) It can consolidate the Islamic forces in Pakistan, instead of fighting each other as of now. We could without really wishing it, turn off the burner under the pan in which Pakistan is stewing in its own juices;
b) We could also make Pakistan even more paranoid, and it becomes even more attached to the chaddi of 3½ Friends of Pakistan, who too wish ill of India, and does absolutely everything they demand of Pakistan;
c) It gives the pretext and background for Wahhabi Salafi Takfeeri forces to accelerate the consolidation of their hold over the Pakistanis;
d) Pakistan lowers its red lines for a nuclear retaliation even further, or goes ahead with such a retaliation;
e) Pakistan starts arming itself conventionally big time, with the 3½ Friends of Pakistan subsidizing all the new procurements;
f) Terrorism against India increases instead of decreases, as some groups come to the view that Indian retaliation is good for business and consolidates their political and religio-political gains in Pakistan.
g) Morality bosses of the world like US and UK come out of the woodwork to impress on India to look for a 'permanent solution'.

So we need to do some rethinking, as we already are doing, as to whether it is not better to simply wait it out - become strong enough to stave off the threat from the 3½ Friends of Pakistan, break up Pakistan, and impose an India-friendly system there, in case Pakistan has not collapsed by then through shooting on the own foot repeatedly.

Till then we can always work to further deepen our strategic influence in the neighborhood, in Afghanistan, amongst the Baluchis, in Iran, amongst the CARs, as well as infiltrate the American polity.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Jun 2009 18:47

I would favor the policy of restarting peace process between India and Pakistan, bringing back the good old Mushy heydays, with a lot more candy and love.

... with the following additions.

a) putting up an organization in Pakistan (possibly Mohajir, Pushtun), which is able to take down any and every Pakjabi terrorist leader and ISI/TSPA 'official' who shows signs of working against India or supports terrorism in India, through assassinations;
b) all this with plausible deniabilitiy, but enough background noise to put the terrorists on notice;
c) opening up channels of communication and even cooperation with the enemies of 3½ Friends of Pakistan, possibly offering help in exchange of intelligence leading to the detection of Pakistani agents in India and staving off terrorist attacks in India (do a UK, USA on the same); promise them the sands of Arabia, Sinkiang, some training space in Pushtunistan, a few good nukes and transit, haven and logistical services;
d) strengthening the Baluchi separatist groups through Afghan proxies;
e) letting more weapons and fake Pakistani currency become more abundant in the tribal areas;
f) supporting the media and human rights organizations to acquire more material (video, human intel) about the human-rights abuses of TSPA in Pushtun areas;
g) arming the Mohajirs in Karachi to the teeth;
h) coming together with Russia, Iran, CARs to stabilize Northern and Western Afghanistan.
i) increasing cooperation and coordination with Iran.
j) steady economic and military build-up
j) more smiles, Bollywood films, cricket and peace process for the Pakistanis!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Jun 2009 19:02

And just now: khel rajya mantri (Gill) has pressed for re starting cricket between India and Pakis saying bad atmosphere must not be allwed to prevail, we wish pakis well.

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 19:06

‘Close missionary schools in Lahore':Talibs

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 19:08

I think there is an Indian charm offensive in the offing. That's a new strategy considering the speed with which the new government is announcing decisions on the TSP relations. Velvet glove with an iron fist.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jun 2009 19:12

I know that dude Nimbu Paani or Ahmed Quereshi is a crazed PakiJabi nut case, but I recall him write in an article that both TSP and US should play to India's ego, namely, world power bla bla, and then get India to the negotiating table, after which it will be donwhill for India. I see this plan in action.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Jun 2009 19:14

SSridhar wrote:I think there is an Indian charm offensive in the offing. That's a new strategy considering the speed with which the new government is announcing decisions on the TSP relations. Velvet glove with an iron fist.

yes saar, velvet glove is there since long what is awaited is Iron fist inside

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 03 Jun 2009 19:52

raghunath wrote:India says keen to normalise relations with Pakistan

India said on Wednesday it was looking to normalise relations with Islamabad through diplomatic channels and was closely monitoring developments in Pakistan, a day after angrily reacting to the release of a militant leader.

"India will work through the diplomatic channels to pursue the objective of bringing about normalcy in our relationship with Pakistan," Indian Foreign Minister Somanahalli Mallaiah Krishna told reporters in New Delhi.
Well, I'm speechless.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 03 Jun 2009 19:53

Granger causality in action ..... if A precedes B repeatedly in time, A cannot be ruled out as B's cause onlee.....
So Papistan reasons that we releasing Hafiz--> Dilli talks of normalizing relations onlee..... wow, maybe we should release all talibs currently mistakenly kept in protective custody onlee.......

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 20:01

X Posted. Pakistani links to terrorism in Afghanistan:

Equipment, skill improve among Afghan insurgents

By Sean D. Naylor - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 …………………..

…………………The increased skill level points to the presence of foreign fighters either as combatants themselves or as trainers of Afghan insurgents, U.S. troops said. Although Uzbeks and Chechens have been a presence on the Afghan battlefield since before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, the most persistent foreign presence here has been that of Pakistani fighters.

It was the Pakistani military’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate that created and sponsored the Taliban in the 1990s, and there have been persistent reports that despite American pressure in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, the ISI maintains links with the Taliban and associated jihadist movements operating in Afghanistan.

Smith, the TF Zabul director of intelligence, said TF Zabul had received reports of ISI activity in the task force’s area of operations as recently as last year.

“There have been reports in the past of ISI activity in the province, in 2007 and 2008, bringing stuff across the border … weapons and explosives,” he said. However, there had been no such reports this year, Smith said.

But the Army source in Afghanistan was reluctant to state outright that the ISI was still aiding the Taliban. “Lots of groups ferry weapons across the border,” the Army source said. “Lots of groups blame ISI for everything.”

Cannata said coalition forces in Zabul encounter and kill Pakistani fighters “routinely.”

In early April, when 12 U.S. and 35 Afghan National Army troops successfully fought through an ambush staged by roughly 150 insurgents in Shinkay’s Dab Pass, they recovered two insurgents’ bodies with Pakistani identification cards on them, according to Webber, who said he inspected the cards and the bodies. Although the Taliban is predominantly a Pashtun organization, the names and home towns listed on the cards indicated that the men were Punjabi, Webber said, adding that the Pakistanis were probably training the Taliban, resulting in the improved marksmanship that he’s observed.

Army Times

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 20:20

If these comments represent official US views than a high state of panic has set in :

Posted on Tue, Jun. 02, 2009

U.S. experts: Pakistan on course to become Islamist state

Jonathan S. Landay
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — A growing number of U.S. intelligence, defense and diplomatic officials have concluded that there's little hope of preventing nuclear-armed Pakistan from disintegrating into fiefdoms controlled by Islamist warlords and terrorists, posing a greater threat to the U.S. than Afghanistan's terrorist haven did before 9/11. …………….

"It's a disaster in the making on the scale of the Iranian revolution,"

"The place is beyond redemption,"

"If you look out 10 years, I think the government will be overrun by Islamic militants."

"The Punjabi elite has already lost control of Pakistan, but neither they nor the Obama administration realize that,"

"Pakistan will be an Islamist state — or maybe a collection of four Islamic states, probably within a few years. There's no civilian leadership in Islamabad that can stop this, and so far, there hasn't been any that's been willing to try."

LINK

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 03 Jun 2009 20:37

GOI seems to have concluded that India may be in bad shape but Pakistan's position is worse. Thought process seems to follow along the lines of: We had 10 blasts in 1 year and they have had 40; we had 26/11 and they had the Marriott; we have Kashmir problem and they have NWFP problem; we have NE insurgencies and they have Baluchistan issues; rogue elements in ISI are hurting India but they are hurting Pakistan even more so how can GOP stop all terrorism... blah, blah.

There is a mental paralysis in GOI circles that prevents overt, and to a verly large extent, even covert action despite overwhelming evidence that highest ranks of Pakistani governmnet and military are responsible for planning and execution of terrorism and associated attacks in India. GOI hesitates to take action because the objectives of any military strike are not clear, success is not assured, subsequent developments in Pakistan are not predictable and diplomatic falllout may be severe.

GOI is afraid of how other countries will react because it is not capable of shaping events and international perception to conform to Indian point of view. What Indians need and what the world needs to see is a visible, undeniable and undenied retaliatory Indian strike using military or covert means in response to Pakistani provocation.

Pakistan should have lost some Coastguard ships in the Indian ocean (I know it is an act of war) and a few border posts in an air-strike during 26/11 cleanup. At least one A2G missile should have struck a Brigade HQ deep in POK due to a malfunction in guidance software. Pakistan can still loose assets in the sea based on 'reliable' Indian intel of Mumbai-2 even today.

In response to recent events, MMS needs to sign an execution order for Hafiz Saeed, the Pakistani High Court judge who released Saeed, and a certain top ranking ISI official. And when that is done, India needs to offer absolutely no explanations to anyone in any capital of any country in the world.

They will get the point.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Jun 2009 21:09

Does anybody know who the current track 2 gentlemen from India are?

Artists, intellectuals and such type of people have been mentioned.

Not a very confidence inspiring lot. Will they have to pay jazia too?

Pak-India track-II diplomacy resuming next week

Although the diplomats are of the view that in the last ten years, the track-two diplomacy has not produced any dramatic results but it was mainly due to the change in governments in Pakistan and internal affairs and disturbances in Pakistan. Now, following the formation of new government in India, and a strong democratic set up in Pakistan, there are hopes that forthcoming visit from India, next week, the process of ‘track-two’ diplomacy would be revived and hopefully reach to a logical end.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jun 2009 21:19

Rahul Shukla wrote:GOI seems to have concluded that India may be in bad shape but Pakistan's position is worse. Thought process seems to follow along the lines of: We had 10 blasts in 1 year and they have had 40; we had 26/11 and they had the Marriott; we have Kashmir problem and they have NWFP problem; we have NE insurgencies and they have Baluchistan issues; rogue elements in ISI are hurting India but they are hurting Pakistan even more so how can GOP stop all terrorism... blah, blah.

A round about way of saying "we are the ultimate cowards".

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Jun 2009 21:20

I think there is an Indian charm offensive in the offing. That's a new strategy considering the speed with which the new government is announcing decisions on the TSP relations. Velvet glove with an iron fist.

Where is the iron fist, Sridhar sir?

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 03 Jun 2009 21:28

sum wrote:Where is the iron fist...

It is tied to the yindoo leg with a steel cable also wrapped in Velvet.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Jun 2009 21:29

sum wrote:
I think there is an Indian charm offensive in the offing. That's a new strategy considering the speed with which the new government is announcing decisions on the TSP relations. Velvet glove with an iron fist.
Where is the iron fist, Sridhar sir?

An opinion: The iron fist could throw off Pakistan from the carpet of snakes, glass and nails on which it now stands.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Jun 2009 22:02

RajeshA wrote:An opinion: The iron fist could throw off Pakistan from the carpet of snakes, glass and nails on which it now stands.

Let the snake crawl in and bite you. We have anti-venom ready.

For every snake crossing in the perimeter of our land, we must go snake hunting in the neighbors field. Every snake in the hole need to be killed and that become part of our field where we can grow rice (SDRE onlee). Further snakes released by the snake charmer to be dealt in the same manner and one day there will no snakes to kill. That day India will be free from terror. let's do it 72 times. It requires vision which is lacking in GOI.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Jun 2009 22:11

Pakistan tells world community to forgive all loans since 2005

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... 05--il--06

By Masood Haider
Wednesday, 03 Jun, 2009 | 09:05 PM PST |

NEW YORK: Pakistan’s Ambassador to the United Nations Abdullah Husain Haroon Tuesday called on the international community to help Pakistan overcome the desperate humanitarian crisis emerging in the wake of military action against militant groups. He suggested that the best way to do so would be for all loans given to Pakistan by international donors following the 2005 earthquake to be forgiven.

Speaking at a meeting on the emerging crisis at Asia Society here he said this was not America’s war on terror; it was world’s war against the scourge.

The world, therefore, has a responsibility to come to the aid of Pakistan, which had in the past few years been hit by a series of disasters — the 2005 earthquake, the 2007 floods and lately by an astronomical rise in energy and food prices.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Jun 2009 22:17

Pak army violates ceasefire, fires on Indian posts
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument

Jammu/New Delhi, June 3 (PTI) Pakistan army personnel today fired seven rounds of small arms at Indian army posts in Copra of Rajouri sector in Jammu and Kashmir, in the eighth violation of the ceasefire this year.
The violation took place at 1045 hours when the Indian army personnel at posts located along the Line of Control came under the small arms fire. However, there was no casualty or injury.

"The firing was aimed at Indian army posts and it came from across the border from Pakistani forces," Army sources in Delhi said.

Indian troops maintained restraint and did not fire back, the official said.{ooh, wonderful. May be because MMS said ''we bant to see a stable Pakistan'' Is he working for Pakistan or he the PM of India. How can a stable Pakistan, a Pakistan that is created with the vision of hatred towards Indians and working for the destruction of India as its ideology, can be in India's interest. MMSji kindly explain. It's way beyond the thinking capability of this SDRE. I thought the land from their they fired must be in Indian hands by now.}

The incident, the Army headquarters in Delhi said, was the eighth violation of the ceasefire, agreed to by the countries in 2003, since the beginning of this year. No casualties were reported on their side, it said.

The violation would be taken up by the Indian side at the next local commander-level meeting, sources said.{stupids}

There was no Director General of Military Operations-level hotline talk this time as it was felt by the Army headquarters that the matter could be resolved at the local unit level, the sources added.

The DGMOs of the two countries, apart from talking to each other on a weekly basis, also make hotline calls to take up urgent matters such as serious ceasefire violations.{For what purpose. This kind of Sabyatha is not meant for desert nomad Pakis}

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 03 Jun 2009 22:18

^^ totally " Nanga (naked) Bhikhari " attitude...

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Jun 2009 22:23

quote="harbans"Pakistan tells world community to forgive all loans since 2005

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... 05--il--06

By Masood Haider
Wednesday, 03 Jun, 2009 | 09:05 PM PST |

The world, therefore, has a responsibility to come to the aid of Pakistan, which had in the past few years been hit by a series of disasters — the 2005 earthquake, the 2007 floods and lately by an astronomical rise in energy and food prices.

Shameless international beggars!

The first disaster was its freedom in 1947.

All downhill there after.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 03 Jun 2009 22:51

I suspect the Track 2 is needed so that the Islamist takeover of Pakistan can continue unhindered. There is no benefit to India if the PA is made to go after the Taliban as the PA and civilian governments then provide a fig leaf for the extra-subcontinental actors.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 03 Jun 2009 23:05

Is this Fozia Niazi any sort of interesting lookin' chick from Madam Shrileen's harem?

WOT — A war on Pakistan?
http://pakobserver.net/200906/03/Articles01.asp

The concept of the “global war on terror” has served as an excuse for turning reality on its head and the implementation of the full war agenda of the radical American right wing. Bin Laden’s organization, “World Islamic Front for Jihad” is a spent force. In a war based entirely on manufactured delusions, the allied nations took a small expeditionary force of mercenaries and the amplifying device of the corporate media and created the illusion of al-Qaeda. The Muslim and Arab militants used in the attacks (which were) blamed on them throughout the world were military/intelligence agency assets, “patsies” to take the fall for a series of attacks upon American interests. The corporate masters of America ordered their secret “al-Qaeda” army, compromised mostly of retired military and intelligence officers, to initiate a series of well-timed and expertly advertised attacks.

The great production, “the war on terror,” is the largest, most ambitious construction project in history, the construction of the world’s biggest inter-continental oil and gas pipeline system, with the lion’s share of it working its way towards the ports of Israel.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Jun 2009 23:14

AbhishekD wrote: Indian politician and public is not ready to pay the price for that attack.

Imagine a situation in which India decides to conduct a major air strike across all targets within Pakistan. India will be able to do that, but there will be a pakistani counter strike with Land Based Missiles, cruise missile, fighter planes with damage to several Indian military installations and major indian cities. The economy may go into tailspin and Indian diplomacy may go for a six. We are not ready to pay that price and the benefit of such a strike is not known. We dont know whether such a strike will be able to reduce the actual threat of terrorism. Indeed it may turn out to be counter productive. This is a classic cat and mouse game. India is playing the game such that it can reduce its losses. We have had 2 major terrorist strikes in last 7 years and probably few more in coming decade, but it will not change the basic thinking within the Indian Political spectrum

What the Indian security establishment will do is that it will reduce the big terrorist strikes and probably try to disrupt these terrorist plots. We may not be successful all the time and hence few terrorist strikes in time to time. This is the thinking within the Indian security establishment and this is very clear. What the Indian security establishment wants is to inflict pain on pakistan without blow-back. Something that is never going to happen. India cannot have its cake and eat it also. It has to confront this challenge sometime in future. India is not ready for such a challenge yet

The cost of war

Cost of War:

Kargil War:

Financial Costs
Indian Military Expenses: Rs 10,000 crore (~$2B)
Impact on Indian Economy: Ambiguous. GDP growth at 6.5%. From the end of the war until February 2000, the Indian stock market rose by over 30%. The next Indian national budget included major increases in military spending. {Source: Wikipedia}

Human costs.
Indian Official Figures: 533 killed, 1,363 wounded, 1 POW
Pakistani Estimates: 357 - 4,000 killed (Pakistan troops), 665+ soldiers wounded, 8 POW.

Mumbai Terror Attack
Deaths 164 civilians and security personnel
Impact on Economy (Every 1% decline of BSE sensex = $10B, assuming a $1T market capitalization)

J&K Terrorism
Lives lost 60,000
Cost on Indian Economy???: >$1B/year for the past 20 years (This is the minimum amount IMO)

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 03 Jun 2009 23:45

U.S. criticizes Pakistan for release of militant (Reuters)

"In the aftermath of the November Mumbai attacks we made very clear that there is an international responsibility to cooperate and to bring the perpetrators to justice and that Pakistan has a special responsibility to do so, transparently, fully and urgently," said State Department spokesman Robert Wood.

"Pakistan has said it is committed to fighting terrorism, understood the urgency and had promised strong action against those responsible," he told Reuters.

We continue to impress upon the government of Pakistan the importance of bringing the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice," said Wood. "We encourage the prosecution of those already in custody and further investigations to develop evidence to prosecute all those responsible for acts of terrorism," Wood added.

Can somebody help me out here? Where is the criticism in his remarks? My english seems to be a bit rusty...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2009 23:53

You need to understand urdu. If one says the 'Prophet Muhammad loved his youngest wife Ayesha', its an insult to him as he is supposed to love them all equally. In same manner the US SD spokeman saying:

Pakistan has a special responsibility to do so, transparently, fully and urgently," said State Department spokesman Robert Wood

TSP is supposed to understand this and not be reminded by off all people the SD which is located in Dupli City!