Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jul 2009 03:08

The terrorists were trained at Tarbela, Who was the Paki Jernail there that time running the show?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 02 Jul 2009 03:31

Deleted. Enough of your anti-Bollywood trolling.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jul 2009 03:42

These pakistani terrorists are sissies.
When captured, these turds cry like babies. Compare them with the LTTE terrorists, they would not hesitate to chew that cyanide capsule always around their necks. Now that takes real ball$, something the pakistanis sorely lack.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Jul 2009 03:51

all of the controllers have such thick pakjabi accents, and their cold cynical speech... utterly disgusting. somehow i enjoyed listening to the gun shots and the phone line going dead. the ending with the kid saying "hamne unka kya bigaRa" was exactly right

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 02 Jul 2009 04:02

How long will we console ourselves with one excuse or the other?

The bottomline is our government does not have the balls to reply in kind.Don't we have special forces to exceute people like Gul ,Hafeez Saeed etc in their own pukiland ? When it comes to fight the AK47 with the *mighty* 303 rifle, pandu does have the heart but what to do, the rifle gets jammed.

RAW & IB , are all good for just phone tapping.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jul 2009 04:22

The noticeable thing about this documentary is that they show muslims being killed by the terrorists.
Of all the people they interviewed, I think 5 or 6, three were muslims
1. The kid whose whole family was killed.
2. The turkish couple who were spared
3. The woman who had bullet wounds on her belly and scars of an operation.

Some sense being driven into Londonistan muslims???

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 02 Jul 2009 04:26

Thanks Gagan for posting the link!

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 02 Jul 2009 04:44

Gagan wrote:India had better not pussyfoot after this is out. These people need to be taken out period.

Prem wrote: We must get a grinder to make keema out of them and feed to the Pigs .
I understand that pigs are not cannibals. won't eat their own kind.

Treat them as the Tipu Sultan and Haider Ali treated his errant Muslims. Viz kill the Puki pig and bury his remain with a crap eating Pig. His passage to 72 houries in Jannat/heaven is sealed tight shut.

This is the most terrifying to the faithful's of Allahs and those living on earth will never take on a challenger who will kill and bury them with Pigs.

Sure Pigs dont eat pigs, but animal Pig does block the Islamic Pigs from reaching Jannat.

Lacing the Indian bullet tips with Pig residue or blood will also put fear in into the Izlamic terrorists. Once the bullet even grazes his finger tip, the pig parts will enter his blood stream and his body is "HARRAM" forever. His access to Allah and his heaven is sealed for ever.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jul 2009 04:54

Any idea what happened to the rotton bodies of these Hamid Gul's terrorist boys ? are/were they buried , cremated or fed to the birds.
I will go further and make video of them being sewed in Pig Skin and then cremated or fed to the animals and do the live feed on PEE TV.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Jul 2009 04:57

The American General "Blackjack" Pershing did similar acts when he suppressed the Muslim insurrection in the Philippines.

However this tactic is unlikely to work today.

Muslims are allowed to eat pork if starvation is the alternative.

"He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

No act of desecration by a kaffir can deprive the mujahid of his rewards for jihad in the afterlife.
The mullahs would quickly issue a fatwa and preach that the hog burial is irrelevant.

The takfiri jihadis after all eat pork and consume alcohol to deceive the kafir.

Necessity converts the haram to halal

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 02 Jul 2009 05:17

<Begin Wet dream>

With the recent news reports that LeT, JeM and the other PakJabis are setting up shop in POK, wouldnt this be the right time for air-strikes on these camps? Right after 26/11, the pigs would have expected air-strikes and must have scampered away in advance. Right now, no one is expecting an attack. MMS is making all the correct noises about talks with TSP. Unkil thinks the TSPA is focused in Waziristan. All quiet on the Eastern Front. The time is right and the mango is ripe. 48 hours; kill a few hundred of the pigs; get-in and get-out fast.

If nothing, I'd love to see the smug expression wiped off of Big O's face when the "oh shit" moment hits him and he realizes that all his nice Af-Pak policy just got flushed down the toilet

</End Wet dream>

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Jul 2009 05:57

Wet dream

One should expect a few dramatic situations when Clinton visits India. IF they do occur that would a great time - respond while Clinton is in India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jul 2009 06:03

Gagan wrote:
shiv wrote:
Maybe this should go in the Indian psyche thread because his attitude reminds me of an incident I witnessed recently.
I think you (?) described the incident with Indra Nooyi Pepsi CEO behaving like a stiff upper lip upitty gora Memsahib at a function held by indians in the US. She would normally behave down to earth when she is amidst the goras, and behave like a good girl.

I think it is a generational thing. People of the age of Deepak Chopra and Indra Nooyi who went to the west in the heydays of White supremacy were molded into that mode where they felt overawed by the superior character of the Goras.
The goras generally speaking, have had a massive downfall since, with people from India and china specifically having usurped them in both leadership and education. To their credit this generation of westerners are relatively free of the supremacist behavior shown by their parents. They are more accommodating and trying to become good members of the multipolar world.

Well it was not the Indira Nooyi incident - it was something I experienced personally but was reminded of the Nooyi incident. But it's OT - will reply in the psyche thread and leave a note here linking that. No more on this thread.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jul 2009 06:14

arun wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:meanwhile, over in islamabad, the BBC's kraspandant seeth the light

Policing Pakistan

The army isn't well equipped to fight the insurgency.

Wall Street Journal

Well - this myth was brought down by this article:
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/6215

A History of Counterinsurgency
The Pakistani army has been fighting indigenous insurgencies for as long as it has fought India. It fought
its first internal uprising in 1948, less than six months after Pakistan emerged as a sovereign state
following the dismantling of the British Empire in India. The reason for its deployment was the Khan of
Kalat's declaration of independence of what is now the province of Baluchistan. Pakistan's military
subdued and annexed the state, swiftly putting down a resulting rebellion supported by Afghanistan. 4
Baluch resentment has boiled over into armed insurrection a number of times since, notably in the
1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and then recently from 2005 to 2008. Each time the military moved with dispatch
to quash the uprisings. At the zenith of operations in the 1970s, the government deployed more than
80,000 troops along with massive armored and air support. Most recently, the military refused all
overtures of a negotiated settlement, including those made by a special parliamentary committee and its
own government. Instead it vowed to crush the militants. "Don't push us," said the then1Army Chief and
President General Pervez Musharraf, or "you won't even know what hit you." Underlining its seriousness,
the military dropped a bomb on the venerable octogenarian politician and rebel leader Nawab Akbar
Bugti, igniting a firestorm of protest across the province. The military and intelligence agencies
"disappeared" thousands of Baluch political activists, taking advantage of the legal and moral blindspots
of the Global War on Terror. The whereabouts of many of them remain unknown.
The war for independence in the former province of East Pakistan (now the independent Bangladesh) in
1971 is just as telling. The province declared independence after Pakistan's then1military rulers refused
to allow it to form a government after winning a majority in the elections of 1970. Pakistan faced over
100,000 armed Bengali rebels, led by trained military officers and troops that had hitherto been part of
the Pakistani army. The insurgents enjoyed the benefits of sanctuary, supplies, and training provided by
India. Yet the Pakistani army, along with tens of thousands of militant volunteers drawn from right1wing
Islamist parties, was more or less set to extinguish the rebellion. Decisive Indian military intervention on
the side of the Bengalis stymied Pakistan. 5 The military command's ruthlessness in East Pakistan led to
serious accusations of war crimes that continue to haunt Pakistan to the present day.
In addition, the military has successfully faced down a number of low1grade insurgencies in rural Sindh,
the city of Karachi, and indeed the provinces of NWFP and FATA in the 1980s and 1990s. 6 The military
also possesses extensive experience in organizing massive guerrilla campaigns in Afghanistan and
Kashmir, giving it an inside knowledge of insurgency that only a few other militaries can equal. 7
In all the above cases the military fought compatriots and co1religionists largely employing tactics of
asymmetric and guerrilla warfare. In each case its counterinsurgency techniques were disproportionate
and undeniably brutal. Yet they were ultimately successful in quelling the uprisings without making any
notable concessions to the insurgents (with the exception of East Pakistan, which turned into a
conventional war with India).

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Jul 2009 06:20

Second thoughts by a pooki-Xtian

Is this my country too?

This is the first time in my life that I am thinking about my being a Pakistani Christian. I have lived with denied opportunities throughout my life but never in my life thought that Pakistan was not my own country -- till recently, that is.

My first experience of denied opportunity came during my college years. My classmate told me that if I converted to Islam I would have more opportunities and gain a lot more in this life and also in the life after death. I was too young (16 years) at that time to think about it any further. Then there was another time when a classmate of mine told me that Pakistan was only for Muslims and that I as a Christian should be grateful for being 'allowed to live' here -- quite ironically some years later I found out that that same classmate had eventually migrated to Australia; having a mostly Christian population.

This attitude is not peculiar to uneducated or semi-literate people but can be seen in well-educated people as well. After completing my teacher education qualification, I was employed by a school located in a posh locality of Lahore. I was welcomed by all on the first day. No one knew in the staff that I was a Christian but when they found that out their attitude began to change. One day as I was entering the staff room I heard a remark that was directed against me. The person who made the uncharitable remark has a master's degree in science and was a fluent English-speaker. The same remark I also heard later from someone who is in a responsible position in the City District Government Lahore (CDGL). Both gentlemen had said that non-Muslims should be restricted to the low-level jobs such as cleaners and sweepers.

Thanks to Ziaul Haque, my classmates who have memorised the Holy Quran were given extra 20 marks when they applied for admission to medical colleges -- I was left out of the merit list of a medical college because of the same reason. Also I have not heard anything from the government about those who ransacked and burned my village (Shanti Nagar) some years ago. Added to this was the judgment in the Rimpa Plaza killing case where those accused of the murders were released. This made me think that whoever kills non-Muslims in Pakistan will unlikely get any punishment.

All this now makes me wonder whether I should leave this country for good? Should I migrate to a country where I will be judged first as a human and then on my beliefs? Where what I believe in or what my faith is will have no bearing on whether I can progress socially and economically.

Ashar J Khokhar

Or do a Yusuf Youhana, Mr. Khokhar. Ashraf Khokhar sounds like a good, pious name.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Jul 2009 06:33

Investigating Kargil
An admission by a retired Navy Admiral (Taj Khattak).

'What have you done, my friend, Nawaz Sharif?'

During much of the eight week period preceding the July 4 meeting in Washington, we had looked helplessly at TV images of pinpoint artillery shoots and resultant instant pulverization of some of the nation's bravest sons on such mountainous salients in the war zone as Point 5140 (Dras), Point 5203 ( Batalik), Three Pimples (Dras) and Tiger Hill.

Regular army personnel of the Northern Light Infantry, supported by special forces, artillery, engineers and other combat support personnel, in the garb of mujahideen and under a well-executed cover plan, infiltrated through gaps into Indian territory to occupy mountain tops between the LoC and the highway at several points.

At the height of the crisis, Benazir Bhutto had disclosed in an interview to Third Eye Television that President Pervez Musharraf had brought the Kargil plan to her when she was prime minister (when he was director-general military operations) and that she had rejected it.

The Indian army too is by this bug; venturing into Siachen under a similar impulse, and to date India retains under its control an area of the glacier of some 900-1000 square miles. Pakistan launched quite a few efforts to push back the Indians from a nearly 43 miles icy front, the most significant one being in 1984 with a sizeable troop's concentration at Khapalu spearheaded by elite SSG elements, but this was repulsed by the Indians.

This (Siachen) failure too reportedly bears Musharraf's hallmark signatures as one of the masterminds and planners.

The Pakistan Army has just celebrated 'Year of the Soldier'. No prizes for guessing who would win hands down any contest for the 'The Most Failed Soldier of the Decade', were there to be any nominations. (What! Musharraf? NO!!)

The Pakistan army was trying to change lines over which wars had been fought and which, over a period, had morphed from a ceasefire line post-1965 to line of control after Simla Agreement. This fundamental difference, if not clear to the small coterie of Kargil planners, would have been clearer, had there been a broader consultative decision-making process.

The Hamoodur Rahman Commission on the 1971 debacle had observed that the commander-in-chief of the Pakistan Navy learnt about the outbreak of war from the news bulletin on Radio Pakistan.

At best, Kargil was a tactical surprise -- beyond that it failed at the strategic level. After some hesitation and denials, we accepted the mortal remains of Captain Colonel Sher Khan and Havaldar Lalak Jan and honoured them with the highest gallantry awards, as praise for their courage by the enemy was becoming too embarrassing. There was of course no compunction or embarrassment in promoting/rewarding the four generals largely perceived to bear prime responsibility for the fiasco.

On Kargil too, the people of Pakistan to this day are unaware as to what actually happened and why we drifted to the precipice of a potentially disastrous conflict.

Now, here's a beauty:

The central issue is not whether Nawaz Sharif, the elected civilian prime minister had given an approval in principle and was onboard. It is also not whether another prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, had vetoed the Kargil plan when it was presented to her. Rather, it is the near absolute obsession, of our brethren in Khaki with the LoC, and their inability to resist temptation to do something or the other with it at considerable peril to the country. This obsession has not waned since Ayub's era, without realization that the opportunity to etch the Kashmir border permanently in stone through military campaigns was lost forever, when the Indian Army beat us to the Srinagar airport in 1948 Kashmir War by landing a company strength of troops there. Since then, it has always been only this Line or that; with the square miles area under control of the two adversaries in Azad & Indian Held Kashmir being, more or less a constant.

Isn't it time there was an exhaustive enquiry into it and the right lessons learnt for all time to come. The chances of that, however, happening in a country where a retired chief of the air staff, has to seek permission from the incumbent COAS just to appear before a National Assembly/Senate Committee, are slim -- unless we undergo a cathartic experience in one form or the other, there will be no relief from this lingering national pain.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Jul 2009 06:35

Photchor Khan responding to Taj Khattak

A reply to the admiral

Tuesday, June 23, 2009
In reply to Vice-Admiral (r) Taj M Khattak's letter, I would like to say the following: 1. I (purposely) did not reply to Gen (r) Musharraf's farewell speech, so there were no 'superlatives of praise'. 2. The three awards I received were all from elected governments. Hilal-e-Imtiaz by Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto through President Ghulam Ishaq Khan; the first Nishan-e-Imtiaz by Nawaz Sharif through President Leghari and the second Nishan-e-Imtiaz by Nawaz Sharif through President Rafique Tarar. 3. I was never given the opportunity to give my version on what Admiral Khattak terms the "Kahuta files". 4. Admiral Khattak has missed the point completely. It is not about poverty, it is about education. In the cases in question, adequate, specialised, formal education to run the country was lacking. However, that did not stop them from usurping all power and ruling in whatever manner they saw fit, without any checks or balances. That is what I was talking about. 5. I entered through Khokhrapar -- Wagah -- with, as said, a tin trunk on my head. We left whatever we had behind in order to come to Pakistan.

Dr A Q Khan

Islamabad

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Jul 2009 06:39

Hardly; khokar is a panjabi name.

Try Malawi Ghulam.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 02 Jul 2009 06:45

Wow, I never cease to be amazed by the dhimmitude the land of the pure enjoys from its "minorities". Despite everything that's happened, this dimwit below is still wondering about things, and thinks it's only "unlikely" that people will be punished. Of-course, if a tenth of this happened in India, the hatred and bile spewed on India and Indian society would be 100x greater.

anupmisra wrote:Second thoughts by a pooki-Xtian

Is this my country too?

This is the first time in my life that I am thinking about my being a Pakistani Christian. I have lived with denied opportunities throughout my life but never in my life thought that Pakistan was not my own country -- till recently, that is.

My first experience of denied opportunity came during my college years. My classmate told me that if I converted to Islam I would have more opportunities and gain a lot more in this life and also in the life after death. I was too young (16 years) at that time to think about it any further. Then there was another time when a classmate of mine told me that Pakistan was only for Muslims and that I as a Christian should be grateful for being 'allowed to live' here -- quite ironically some years later I found out that that same classmate had eventually migrated to Australia; having a mostly Christian population.

This attitude is not peculiar to uneducated or semi-literate people but can be seen in well-educated people as well. After completing my teacher education qualification, I was employed by a school located in a posh locality of Lahore. I was welcomed by all on the first day. No one knew in the staff that I was a Christian but when they found that out their attitude began to change. One day as I was entering the staff room I heard a remark that was directed against me. The person who made the uncharitable remark has a master's degree in science and was a fluent English-speaker. The same remark I also heard later from someone who is in a responsible position in the City District Government Lahore (CDGL). Both gentlemen had said that non-Muslims should be restricted to the low-level jobs such as cleaners and sweepers.

Thanks to Ziaul Haque, my classmates who have memorised the Holy Quran were given extra 20 marks when they applied for admission to medical colleges -- I was left out of the merit list of a medical college because of the same reason. Also I have not heard anything from the government about those who ransacked and burned my village (Shanti Nagar) some years ago. Added to this was the judgment in the Rimpa Plaza killing case where those accused of the murders were released. This made me think that whoever kills non-Muslims in Pakistan will unlikely get any punishment.

All this now makes me wonder whether I should leave this country for good? Should I migrate to a country where I will be judged first as a human and then on my beliefs? Where what I believe in or what my faith is will have no bearing on whether I can progress socially and economically.

Ashar J Khokhar
Or do a Yusuf Youhana, Mr. Khokhar. Ashraf Khokhar sounds like a good, pious name.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 02 Jul 2009 07:01

Thanks Gagan for posting videos. Powerful stuff and it must be a required viewing for, among others, anyone here in US who wants to pooh pooh TSP's involvement in Mumbai attack.

Meanwhile, on the opposite end here is a story in recent Time magazine - very strange and disgustingly mischievous headline (by some worthy called Elliot Hannon) .
Is India Living Up to Its Post-Mumbai Promises?

The article starts with:

The terrorist attack on Mumbai last November, captured live on television throughout India and around the globe, was not the city's first encounter with violence...

Amazingly (and a new low the Time magazine) No where in the whole long article they mention LET or Pakistan .. or making any reference that this was a terror attack from actors from outside India ... From "controversial" "Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act" to everything else in India were analyzed/criticized but the author was very careful not to even mention where these terrorists came from ...

<Disgusted beyond words>

To be accurate, TSP is mentioned, once and only once, in the end

"If you travel by the local train, the odds of you falling off are much higher than some guy from Pakistan coming and opening his machine gun up at you," he says. "There are lots of things you can die from in Bombay; terrorism is just one of them.

Yes, BTW Pakistan did get mentioned in another-earlier- story in Time as in
Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Jul 2009 07:11

Sanjay M wrote:Poor Obama Don't Get Any Respect from Pakistanis:

http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSN30441851

The complete results of the survey titled “Pakistani Public Opinion on the Swat Conflict, Afghanistan, and the US” is available here:

CLICK

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jul 2009 07:32

anupmisra wrote:Photchor Khan responding to Taj Khattak

I entered through Khokhrapar -- Wagah -- with, as said, a tin trunk on my head. We left whatever we had behind in order to come to Pakistan.

Dr A Q Khan

and also exited the netherlands with a tin trunk on my head with all those centrifuge designs.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Jul 2009 07:45

X Posted.

US Treasury sanctions 4 Pakistani’s among other things for facilitating the July 2006 bombing of suburban trains in Mumbai:

Treasury takes aim at Pakistan terror networks

By JEANNINE AVERSA – 7 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Treasury Department on Wednesday took action against four Pakistani men suspected of providing support to terror groups in the country.

The department ordered banks to freeze any financial assets found in this country that belong to the men. Americans also are prohibited from doing business with them.

The four targeted are: Fazell A-Tul Shaykh Abu Mohammed Ameen Al-Peshawari; Arif Qasmani; Mohammed Yahya Mujahid; and Nasir Javaid. The department alleges that the men have provide support to terror group al-Qaida and Lashkar-e Tayyiba in Pakistan. The department also alleges that the men "have facilitated terrorist attacks, including the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India." ………………

AP via Google

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Jul 2009 08:27

Pookies never cease to amaze me

80% public terms Taliban threat to country: survey

As many as 80 per cent people have voiced concerned over the rising Talibanization, considering them a serious threat to the stability of Pakistan, report said. 78 per cent people spoke positively, favouring the abolishment of Taliban’s training camps while 81 per cent spoke against the drone attacks on Pakistani soil, survey concluded.

It's the 20% who favor talibanization that are a cause for serious concern.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Jul 2009 08:32

Now, here something you don't read everyday:
Five miserable souls have a hard time proving their pooki nationality

Five persons being deported over fake traveling documents

KARACHI: The Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) has announced deportation of five persons over carrying illegal traveling documents.

Arrested persons failed to prove their Pakistan nationality during FIA’s two daylong investigation. Subsequently, FIA decided to deport them from country and will send to Saudi Arabia on Thursday morning, sources added.

They should have blown themselves up to prove their national origins.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jul 2009 08:39

durgesh wrote:How long will we console ourselves with one excuse or the other? The bottomline is our government does not have the balls to reply in kind.

How long will we keep quiet ? Oh, pretty long. This is from a July 1, 1959 editorial of The Hindu

It would be too much to expect that all the patience should be shown by India while Pakistan, armed by her friends in the West, becomes increasingly intransigent.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Jul 2009 09:21

On the Jamia Binoria Madrassah in Karachi from the Daily Mail:

Inside a Pakistani school where children are being brainwashed into terrorists

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 02 Jul 2009 13:57

anupmisra wrote:Second thoughts by a pooki-Xtian

Is this my country too?

....Both gentlemen had said that non-Muslims should be restricted to the low-level jobs such as cleaners and sweepers....

Ashar J Khokhar
Or do a Yusuf Youhana, Mr. Khokhar. Ashraf Khokhar sounds like a good, pious name.

Both gentlemen are obviously following Pakistaniat: the obsession of making non Muslims work as cleaners and sweepers.

Originally expressed in public by Ayub Khuhro ( irrespective of how much Hamida Khuhro spins in the TFT )

Ayub Khuhro in the 40s :Today Muslim women are washing dishes in Hindu homes. I look for the day when Hindu women will be washing dishes in Muslim homes.''

Link

Pakistan is obsessed with cleaning and sweeping toilets.
Basically, obsessed with itself.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Jul 2009 15:59

Pakistan is obsessed with cleaning and sweeping toilets.
Basically, obsessed with itself.

Apt observation. Indian polity and people are generally quite innocent when it comes to understanding the Paki psyche. The Paki is the most casteist, racist and slimeball thing one can imagine. It ascribes to India evil deeds that it indeed considers legitimate to use on others. Their accusations on India and HIndu's etc are revelations of what they really think and plan like. If they think and yell loudly India, RAW etc did 26-11, then watch out for the truth, the Paki intel really did carry out the Lahore attack and 26/11. Casteism in India is irrelevent except for positive affirmation purposes. There's evidence enough of that in this forum, the colleges and schools we all have been through, our dealings with each other and so on so forth. But it's alive in Porkistan. To that end i have mert first timer foreigners come to India trying to 'see' the casteism in India. Tried to see i at the airport, nope, tried at the office nope, then one day he was convinced Castesim was what was practised by the neighbourhood lady with her maid. He got hold of he maid one day and asked her her caste..maid turned out to be Brahmin

However WKK type SDREs convinced him the castes system is prevalent in all of us and our educational system reflects castesim..we folks cook our own goose at times..the guy thinks that India's educational system is biased against lower castes on an official basis. I cleared up that too, however it's evident India must shatter this false propaganda that's doing rounds about his caste thingie.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 02 Jul 2009 16:13

IED Mubarak in Rawalpindi..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jul 2009 16:24

Ajatshatru wrote:Like Pakis talk of distinguishing between 'Good' Taliban & 'Bad' Taliban is plain bullshit, I don't think it's really advisable to start making any distinctions between 'Brave' terrorists & 'Sissy' terrorists etc. All terrorists are just that....'terrorists'. Period.

Same like all Pakistanis being just that . . .'Pakistanis'.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Jul 2009 16:56

We see that the Paki behaviour is confusing Indians for a long time. Now Rajnath is the latest cauality spouting the "Pakistan stable is in our interests' thing. Things are increasingly becoming clear for those who today want to see what many here have seen for years.

First: Pakistan is consumed by hatred for India and Hindu. It's endemic and non surgical and chemotherapic cures won't work. Radiotherapy using plutonium may be a solution, but we can wait a while for that. We have to get on board normal, hard working Indians who have little time to read about Pakis, or those who read the Paki through the prism of the RAPE aka WKK types so prevalent in our macaulite media. The normal SDRE does'nt know enough about Taqiyaa, Jizya, Ghazwa e Hind and the GOI takes great pains that he does'nt get to know what Aurangzeb, Babar and folks did in India.

Second: Something i've said here before, but how about getting specific attention on blasting this 'Stable Pakistan is great for everybody' thingie. Say by starting a thread specific to that? Analyzing why some folks think that way, what happens if it's broken up.. How it benefits India, how waters will be shared in case it breaks up, how relations with different parts of broken Porkistan will be with each other and with India, Afghanistan and Iran..also importantly what will happen to the Kashmir issue if it breaks up? What will happen to POK?

Third: One reason why i am stressing on singular attention to the second point is Kashmir. My take is the breakup of Pakistan will nullify the Kashmir problem in India's favor. If Pakistan does not breakup, it will always remain on the edge, keep it's neighbours roiling in turnoil at the blackmail option provided with it's nukes. Lets not blame MMS or anyone for not being able to hit back at Porkistan despite provocations. Even the Americans would'nt have hit back if a single hint of usage of nukes against large civilians existed. So a stable Pakistan will always as inevitably lead to an Obama or Clinton who will demand a solution to Kashmir from India. This is exactly as has been analyzed here by many, that the US and it's interests will always pressure the more reasonable party vis a vis Kashmir. Thats India.

Fourth: Rajnath and Advani and Modi too are naive when it comes to Paki's. The Paki's are taught the concept of Taqiyaa from childhood. These Indian folks are taught 'Satya'..truth. Their reactions have been always knee jerk anti-muslim all through most of their careers as politicians. The anti muslim as opposed to anti Islamic doctrine reaction that these politicians have displayed most of their careers was a result of not doing enough homework related to understanding doctrinal implications that compel certain very small sections of muslims to take the violent jihad route. The doctrinal part of how these people are compelled to hate jews, Christians, or Kufrs is essential for every infidel. It is not to be hidden simply because there is a doctrine out there which exhorts/ obliges it's followers to wage war against the infidel. Thankfully all muslims or most muslims do not follow that literally and are normal, hard working people like us. The problem arises when they are in a majority or a major chunk of the population is demographically muslim. Can muslims proect themselves from the power of the mullah? Nope, we have not seen evidence to that in any muslim counry so far. Can a majority muslim counry give the same equity that infidel nations give muslims in their? No, it cannot unless by force with the Army backing it or severe compulsions to be seen as European like the Turks. Else, muslim populations in so called liberal Indonesia or Malaysia too will slowly as evidence now displays morph under the command of the Mullah. Why do they? Simply because Mullah Omar and Fazlullah know they follow Islam more purely than the liberal muslim who drinks at the pub and befriends Jews, Christians and Hindu's. Corrolary: without knowing the doctrine you are opposing, one will make a fool of oneself. Like Rajnath and Advani..and ow Vajpayee was taken. Despite being in a party known to be pro Hindu and pro Dharma etc. If they cannot stand up to it, think the normal Ramu Shyamu on the streets can? We are not dealing with a powerful entity at the moment, but we are dealing with a very powerful doctrine indeed. And no Muslims are NOT to blame. Pakistan is a manifestation of obligation to that doctrine. So is the Kashmir problem.

Fifth: It is wrt to the above, important that India brings the religious significance to Dharma of places in India's neighbourhood and when talks crop up and raise them as 'disputed'. Just like Kashmir and Arunachal are disputed, Kashi, Mansarovar, Kailash, Haripur, Tibet, Lahore also can be and must be made disputable. Atleast some of these certainly can with very convincing historical reasons and backgrounds. So if there is docrinal compulsion for Paki's to stake a claim to Kashmir, then Hindu's have 10 times the doctrinal compulsion to honor and retain the land of Sage Kashyap. 85% muslims residing in an area 30 km by 70 km wide cannot lay claim to a state with an area of tens of thousands of square kms. Or for peace why not consider transfer of the valley to Porkistan in exchange for all of POK (except upto Neelum valley) and Northern areas? Once we give away 30 km by 70 km (the valley) away, we don't have a majority muslim state under doctrinal compulsion to break away from Kufr India.

Sixth: Coming to a full circle, if we are not even negotiating as mentioned in the fifth above, or are scared or feel awkward, embarassed talking to pukes this level, why are we even talking about a 'Stable Pakistan'? I don't see an iota of sense in propping a state that will always intrinsically go back to point one. For US/ West maybe. Not for India. I's important that normal people in India understand a 'Stable Pakistan is not in India's interests' anymore. We've tried it. Payed in blood. Faced nuclear blackmail. Been pushed to the brink many times over. Enough is indeed enough. Stable Pakistan, anyone?

Appreciate Shridhar ji posting this:

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/01/stories ... 921200.htm

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Jul 2009 17:01

perhaps a bigger brain than mine can take this challenge on... if we look at how and why yugoslavia was allowed to break up by the super powers, then we might learn something about how and why pakistan's breakup will be allowed by the super powers...

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Jul 2009 17:13

milindc wrote:IED Mubarak in Rawalpindi..

AoA to that...

Cant see any reports of that though

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 02 Jul 2009 17:16

sum wrote:
milindc wrote:IED Mubarak in Rawalpindi..
AoA to that...

Cant see any reports of that though

headlines in geo tv site
http://geo.tv/7-2-2009/45232.htm

RAWALPINDI: RPO Rawalpindi Nasir Durrani said at least six people were killed in the Chauhar Chowk of Rawalpindi, Geo News reported Thursday.

Talking to media, he said it was apparently a suicidal attack and police have found the parts of the suicide attackers from the blast site.

Police and personnel from other secret agencies are garnering clues from the blast site. According to police sources, they have found the bust and legs.

Nasir Durrani said the threats regarding attacks on the security installations are still pouring in.

The Rawalpindi RPO said it is difficult to check every vehicle and motorcycle; however, police had in focus the checking of vehicles not the motorbikes.

He said the condition of motorbike shows that it was a suicide attack by the motorists.

According to him, the motorist ran into the bus at fuel tank; however, as the bus was quite high, it escaped damage to a great extent. He said there were government officials on board bus.

Previously it was claimed that the ill-fated bus belongs Heavy Mechanical Complex Taxila; however later on, it was said to be belonging to Dr. A. Q. Khan Research Laboratories.

Durrani said a joint investigative team will probe into the incident. According to police sources, the parts of bike have been taken in custody.

The hospital sources said at least 30 injured and a body have been brought to the District Headquarters Hospital, of them, five are in critical condition.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jul 2009 17:26

harbans wrote:We see that the Paki behaviour is confusing Indians for a long time. Now Rajnath is the latest cauality spouting the "Pakistan stable is in our interests' thing. Things are increasingly becoming clear for those who today want to see what many here have seen for years.

Harbans, good post. Someone must tell our PM, FM, bureaucrats, some influential & young and fresh politicians to spend sometime in BRf every day. I seriously mean it.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 02 Jul 2009 17:44

Bomb in Pakistan's Rawalpindi kills up to six
Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:49am EDT

"About 25 people were on board and as the bus reached a square, a motorcyclist hit its fuel tank," city police chief Nasir Durrani told reporters. "According to our reports, five to six people were martyred and 16 wounded."

Rawalpindi, near Islamabad, is home to the headquarters of the Pakistani army and other state agencies.

A senior police officer said the bus was carrying workers from a main nuclear facility, the Khan Research Laboratories.

A bomber attacked a bus carrying workers from the same facility in 2007.

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 02 Jul 2009 18:00

sum wrote:
milindc wrote:IED Mubarak in Rawalpindi..

It reminds me of famous quote of ABJ' in Agra (IIRC) "General Sahib Yaad rakheyay yeh ("Antakvad") do-dhari talwar hai"

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Jul 2009 18:14

Lalmohan wrote:perhaps a bigger brain than mine can take this challenge on... if we look at how and why yugoslavia was allowed to break up by the super powers, then we might learn something about how and why pakistan's breakup will be allowed by the super powers...

Lalmohan ji,
if you wave the requirements of bigger brain size, if I may add ...

Yugoslavian Army had a good mix, Serbians, Croats, Macedonians, Slovenes, Montenegrin, even Bosnian. However when it became apparent that everybody in Yugoslavia was going to go his own way, the army split up amongst the various ethnicities, especially Croats and Serbs went at each other's throats to capture those lands, which though populated with one ethnicity were technically part of the other emerging state. That led to wars, and the parties, the Croats and Serbs were evenly poised. This gave the others, especially the Slovenes the opportunity of opting out of the federation, as the the big two were at each other's throats. That is one lesson.

Secondly the whole process was basically triggered by the Germans. The Croats were allies of the Germans in the Second World War, and there was some latent sympathy for the Croats. Secondly Germany wanted to be the dominant power in the middle of Europe, so bringing down the other big power, Yugoslavia was in Germany's interests. Whatever the reason, as the Croats decided on going their separate way, the Germans were the first ones to recognize their independence. The Croats are still on their way to becoming part of the EU. The Serbs are nowhere to be seen. So the question of recognition by a partner (Germany) of the dominant superpower (USA) did set the ball rolling. The Croats then felt even more confident that they can pull it off.

Thirdly even before the wars began Milosovic had had a very bad press. He was a loudmouth and a bit overly Serb-nationalistic that he himself made a case, that they all in the federation are not equals. Serbs were more equal than others. So having a loudmouth subnationalist idiot as the President does help the cause, especially if his idiocy is sufficiently enhanced and propagated through a cunning media.

Fourthly, the Americans too were keen on breaking the hold of Russia on Central Asia through its Slavic brother in arms, Serbia. When the Americans saw that Russia was going through a hard time under Boris Yelsin, they thought the time was ripe to weaken its proxies and friends. As the dominant unit in an undivided Yugoslavia, Serbia radiated a lot more influence and power, and through Serbia, Russia also wielded more influence. Serbian voice within Yugoslavia was bolstered by other slavic units, like Macedonia and Serbia-friendly Montenegro. In fact, Germany most probably acted upon the direction of USA on this score.

Fifthly, one should not overlook the pull the West exercised on Eastern Europe at that time. Western Europe was rich and was dangling the carrots of prosperity in front of the sub-units of Yugoslavia. Russia had nothing to offer at the time. So that helped as well.

Sixthly, Slovenia had already been 'infiltrated' by their Western brothers, the Italians, and to some extent the Austrians. Slovenia was a rich low hanging fruit, as it did not have any borders with the Russian-friendly Serbs. The Croats had cut-off the Serbs from Slovenia anyway. In the same way, a constituency had been built-up in Croatia itself for independence. These constituencies got the upper hand, and the rest is history.

There is of course much we can learn from the disintegration of Yugoslavia, but Pakistan would follow a slightly different break-up model, one with a lot more ensuing Islamic chaos. As of now, Pakistan still has its 3½ Friends, with present Occidental, past Occidental, Oriental, and Islamic Superpower, all supporting the misfit. So that makes it a bit difficult.

Two very important things need to happen, the chaos has to increase, and the US has to change its mind about the Indian role. Both are happening albeit too slowly.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Jul 2009 18:23

Why is the AQK Labs/its employees under attack?