Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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ajay_ijn
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 24 Jan 2009 18:41

I think the 300 million is for radars, missiles, integration and software. We might be getting some newer fire control radars for controlling the guns as well as missiles
JMTs etc.

but we already have Barak System installed in almost every warship. The same Radar controls both AK-630 and the Barak missile. This deal might for ordering just additional missiles.
or
Are they ordering Radars for P-15A?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sunilUpa » 24 Jan 2009 19:25

This time it is Sandeep Unninathan..

Unready for battle

Last week, army chief General Deepak Kapoor said the Indian Army was pushing for fast-track procurement of select equipment post the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, because normal acquisition procedures took “between two and five years”.

This was the first candid admission by a chief in recent times of procurement delays which are not only impairing the army’s modernisation but also impeding India’s strategic options in case of an all-out war. In a recent meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, General Kapoor repeated his refrain.

The army was unprepared for war. Asked about the option of a limited war with Pakistan, a senior general had a counter-question, “Are we ready?” His incredulity is not without reason. For the past decade the shopping list has been lengthening and the modernisation of the Indian military has slipped by a decade.

From basic equipment like night-vision sights for assault rifles to sophisticated surface-to-surface missiles which protect the advancing strike corps, nothing has been bought. Despite a doubling of the defence budget post-Kargil, the army is still embarrassingly unprepared.The chief’s admission was also a tacit acknowledgement of the failure of the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP), which lays down a 36-month cycle time to acquire weaponry—a deadline that is rarely met.

Nearly a decade after its Bofors howitzers performed spectacularly during the Kargil war, the army has not bought even one of the 1,860 howitzers it had projected. This year, it will once again restart a five-year evaluation and acquisition process. In the years following Operation Parakram the army propounded its Cold Start battle doctrine which called for using massive firepower— rockets, missiles and longrange guns to offset a near parity of foot-soldiers with Pakistan.

Today, the strategy is in place, but the tools are missing. “It is most inappropriate to delay the acquisition of modern 155mm howitzers as only a massive firepower asymmetry can overcome the lack of deep manoeuvre when land operations are planned under a nuclear umbrella,” says Brigadier Gurmeet Kanwal (retired), director of the Centre for Land Warfare Studies.

What has rung alarm bells is Pakistan’s rapid acquisition of US technology over the past eight years—antitank missile-firing gunships, anti-ship missiles and night-vision devices under the War on Terror—and a steady build-up of Chinese military capabilities.

The army’s tanks and combat vehicles are night-blind, a critical lapse in an age of short duration, round-the-clock wars.

Analysts say the state of modernisation of any military is judged by its equipment profile.

Normally, a military should have 30 per cent state-of-the-art equipment, 40 per cent based on matured technologies and 30 per cent getting closer to obsolescence. “In India the current proportion is close to 15, 35 and 50 per cent, respectively,” says defence analyst Major General Mrinal Suman (retired).

It is this 50 per cent of the arsenal which sorely needs replacement and that leads to the arm-flailing called fast-track procurement. Consider this: the mainstay of the air defence artillery continues to be the World War II era L-70 ack-ack gun.

A tender to replace them was cancelled last year because only one global vendor showed up.

In 2002, the Ministry of Defence codified the DPP into a manual which would guide the government on buying military equipment and eliminate single-vendor situations.

Seven years hence, the only items the army has managed to purchase are two artillery regiments each with 12 Smerch longrange rockets and over 300 T-90 battle tanks. Both from Russia as single-vendor imports. “Our system is only tuned for single-vendor situations. With multiple vendors, the system goes into unending trials,” says an army official.

With the politicisation of defence acquisition after Bofors and the Kargilera purchases, the entire system has become risk-averse. “I am still answering to the CBI on decisions taken nearly a decade ago, why would I want to stick my neck out on anything?” a senior bureaucrat asks.

The multivendor system has its own pitfalls. “Often vendors go out of their way to cast aspersions on others further delaying the process,” says former army chief General Ved Prakash Malik. “The DPP has failed to deliver. In the past six years, India has not been able to sign a single contract for major equipment in a multi-vendor competitive environment,” says Suman.

The reason, say analysts, is red tape. Adequate powers have not been delegated to the services and even minor deviations in the procedure have to be personally vetted by the defence minister, causing further delays. “The defence acquisition system is delay rather than delivery-inclined,” says a senior army official.

Often, the army itself is to blame because it is unable to decide what it wants. The qualitative requirements are either culled from brochures, or made so stringent and futuristic that few vendors can meet them.

In sharp contrast, it took the Indian Navy just three years to sign a $2-billion contract with Boeing for eight maritime patrol aircraft after a global competition and within the DPP parameters.

The army, however, is underequipped to handle acquisitions. Procurement departments are staffed with personnel on short-term deputations with little or no knowledge of acquisition.

The US has a defence acquisition university to train experts. India, despite a committed defence acquisition plan of over $50 billion over the next decade, has not even begun thinking along those lines.

Yet, the malaise runs far deeper. “The whole process is flawed in execution,” says Kanwal.

There is no adherence to five-year defence plans. Deadlines are not met, goalposts are frequently shifted and proposals languish for months waiting for approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS).

Experts say financial support for defence plans must be committed at the time of approval and should not be hostage to annual budgets; red tape must be eliminated via empowered committees, work of the Defence Acquisition Council should be streamlined and CCS should give time-bound clearances to proposals.

General Malik says the ministry can easily reduce 30 per cent of the delays if it implements simple measures like ensuring that the contract team starts work even as the trials are on and joint meetings are held to reduce file movements.

Without such reforms, successive army chiefs could be left wringing their hands in a crisis.


Please do look at tables posted in the original article.

Though we knew the state of affairs, it is shocking to learn that the only orders Army has placed in last six years is in Single vendor situations AKA Russian suppliers. All this chai bisqoot sessions by Babus and Politicians on DPP has done no good.

OT - Just compare this with what Manoj Joshi had written...same topic, same magazine, but a world of difference b/w the two.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 24 Jan 2009 20:45

Yet, the malaise runs far deeper. “The whole process is flawed in execution,” says Kanwal.

There is no adherence to five-year defence plans. Deadlines are not met, goalposts are frequently shifted and proposals languish for months waiting for approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS).

Experts say financial support for defence plans must be committed at the time of approval and should not be hostage to annual budgets; red tape must be eliminated via empowered committees, work of the Defence Acquisition Council should be streamlined and CCS should give time-bound clearances to proposals.

General Malik says the ministry can easily reduce 30 per cent of the delays if it implements simple measures like ensuring that the contract team starts work even as the trials are on and joint meetings are held to reduce file movements.

I just wonder why babus want to delay the aquisitions, nobody is going to benefitted by the situation.

what happens if there is Single Vendor Situation?
why do they have to cancel the process if there is only one vendor.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sum » 24 Jan 2009 21:00

I really think that the IA did express some reservations on action for these slew of articles to appear.
Sandeep Unninathan is a very good defence reporter(IMO) and if he says this, things are really grim.
Or maybe the IA is using the post-26/11 "soul-searching mode of our netas/babus" to get their acquisition pipeline cleaned up by using the media to fight their case since all possible critical items are being held up at the whims of the babus?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Gerard » 25 Jan 2009 02:26

South Africa’s Denel Forced Into Strategic Shift
Back in July 2005, DID informed its readers that India’s sanctions against Denel and possible disqualification from a $2 billion artillery contract could have a major effect on the South African defense firm as a whole

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 28 Jan 2009 11:42

SAAB opens office in Delhi
Addressing reporters here, the country head and vice-president of SAAB International, Mr Jan Widerstrom, said that for his company, India was a key market and therefore it was making long-term commitments.

“We are offering our high tech portfolio to the Indian Army, Air Force and Navy. We will be further enhancing our presence to ensure full support to our customers. SAAB is actively looking for long-term cooperation with Indian government and private industries,” Mr Widerstrom said.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 29 Jan 2009 05:49

Global cos vie for Indian defence deals.

Murky it certainly is, but it seems there is no business like arms business . With India projected to spend well over $30 billion for procuring military hardware and software over the next fourfive years, global armament giants are vying to grab a piece of the lucrative action.

The government’s decision to fasttrack deals after 26/11 to plug gaps in the operational capabilities of army, navy, IAF and coast guard has only whetted their appetite.

There will be over 300 foreign companies from countries like the US, Russia, France, Israel, the UK, Sweden and the like, as well as over 200 Indian firms, which will hawk their wares during Aero India-2009 in Bangalore, said defence ministry officials on Wednesday.

International aviation majors ranging from Boeing, Sikorsky, EADS and BAE Systems to MiG-Sukhoi, Embraer, Bombardier and SAAB will all be there during the show from February 11 to 15.

The focus will be on fighters, aircraft, helicopters, UAVs and radars. If the IAF has the huge $10.4-billion project to acquire 126 multi-role combat aircraft, with the six contenders preparing for trials in April-May, the army, navy and coast guard too want to bolster their own air wings.

Take, for intance, navy. After the ministry inked the $2.1-billion contract for eight Boeing P-8 i long-range maritime jets on January 1, the deals for 29 more Russian MiG-29 Ks for Rs 5,380 crore, five Kamov-31 copters for Rs 1,377 crore and two Israeli Heron UAVs for Rs 386 crore are now ready.

Navy is also hunting for six to eight medium-range reconnaissance planes, each worth Rs 270-300 crore, and 16 multi-role helicopters with anti-submarine warfare capabilities, each costing Rs 110 crore.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Div » 29 Jan 2009 07:30

Gerard wrote:South Africa’s Denel Forced Into Strategic Shift
Back in July 2005, DID informed its readers that India’s sanctions against Denel and possible disqualification from a $2 billion artillery contract could have a major effect on the South African defense firm as a whole


That is an interesting article Gerard. While a company like Denel was in financial distress, it was picked apart by other global military companies that were probably able to tap into many of its very interesting projects. Rheinmetall, Carl Zeiss Optronics, Saab, BAE etc all seem to have bought stakes in the various businesses or gotten into JVs.

While who knows what was going on with Denel in India, it is sadly typical that no Indian companies (big or small) that were able to take advantage of Denel's situation and partner up with them. I wonder if any even thought about it...then again, there don't seem to be any dedicated military companies in India where conglomerates and PSUs are still kings.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Anabhaya » 29 Jan 2009 07:35

What do they mean two Heron UAV's for 380+ carore rupees. More like 2 squadrons?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby V_Raman » 29 Jan 2009 07:47

i dont know if any indian company would be able/allowed to buy stake in a foreign defense firm. the nuclear deal might change that.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 29 Jan 2009 08:07

five Kamov-31 copters for Rs 1,377 crore

do they cost 275 crores each? thats same as cost of Mirage 2000 or Su-30MKI. It has just one PD Radar and nothing much else. i wonder how it compares with UK AEW helicopters.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sum » 29 Jan 2009 09:25

Is there any news on the INs second line of subs? Was the RFP even issued?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 29 Jan 2009 09:55

sum wrote:Is there any news on the INs second line of subs? Was the RFP even issued?

RFP only in mid-2009. even for P-17A RFP is not issued yet, RFI was reportedly sent way back in 2007. almost for all other naval tenders, RFP is issued.

does any one know Navy plans for future destroyers (other than P-15A) and fixed wing AWACS?.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby m mittal » 29 Jan 2009 10:50

does any one know Navy plans for future destroyers (other than P-15A)


Indian Navy has a planned Project 15B after Project 15A. Project 15B will include 3-4 ships and they too are expected to be built by MDL. Expected to be signed in 2011-2012.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 29 Jan 2009 11:46

a glacier moves faster than our acquisition and production plans.

esp with global warming lubricating the way

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Raj Malhotra » 29 Jan 2009 12:09

Vipul wrote:Global cos vie for Indian defence deals.


Take, for intance, navy. After the ministry inked the $2.1-billion contract for eight Boeing P-8 i long-range maritime jets on January 1, the deals for 29 more Russian MiG-29 Ks for Rs 5,380 crore, five Kamov-31 copters for Rs 1,377 crore and two Israeli Heron UAVs for Rs 386 crore are now ready.
Navy is also hunting for six to eight medium-range reconnaissance planes, each worth Rs 270-300 crore, and 16 multi-role helicopters with anti-submarine warfare capabilities, each costing Rs 110 crore.



There seems to be lot of confusion in figures, that also from economic times!

Mig seem to US$ 38 million per unit which seems ok and way less than rumoured US$ 75million.

5 helos cannot be 1,377 crores, earlier IIRC they were US$ 20million each (?) now suddenly up by 3 times?

And Heron has to be 2 "squadrons" and not only 2 units, so that will be atleast 2x4=8 Herons i.e. around US$ 10 million a fly away unit.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 29 Jan 2009 15:37

ajay_ijn wrote:
five Kamov-31 copters for Rs 1,377 crore

do they cost 275 crores each? thats same as cost of Mirage 2000 or Su-30MKI. It has just one PD Radar and nothing much else. i wonder how it compares with UK AEW helicopters.


The price is indeed on the higher side.Does these radar picket copters justify their purchase?

Does any have info on their performance versus similar western helos?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 29 Jan 2009 19:22

There were issues with considerable downtime for these Copters too.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 29 Jan 2009 19:25

India boosts arms modernisation after Mumbai.

India is speeding a nearly $1 billion (704 million pounds) domestic weapons development programme to modernise its armed forces, the defence research department said on Thursday, following renewed tensions with Pakistan over the attacks in Mumbai.

The plans include inducting 124 main battle tanks for the Indian army by December, the first of a batch of locally-made combat aircraft for the navy also by the end of the year, and unmaned aerial vehicles to boost border surveillance.

"There is a certain push now to complete projects on time and deliver the goods for low intensity battles or to counter bigger security threats in the region," Suranjan Pal, a spokesman of the government-run Defence Research and Development Organisation, said.

Tensions between India and Pakistan mounted after the attacks in Mumbai in November, which New Delhi said were carried out by Pakistani nationals and must have had support from Pakistani state agencies.

Since the Mumbai attacks, local media has highlighted the many antiquated weapons system that India has, from artillery to tanks, and poor surveillance capabilities.

"India's military capability had been shrinking as modernisation efforts were moving very slowly, but now there is more interest being shown," C. Uday Bhaskar, a strategic affairs expert, said.

The modernisation plans include developing the Agni-5 missile, capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and hitting targets 5,000 km (3,100 miles) away, and torpedoes and planes for the navy.

India is also one of the world's biggest arms importers, but government officials and experts said the priority was to boost indigenous capacity and reduce reliance on foreign suppliers.

"Foreign countries are generally not interested in sharing critical technology with us, so we are pushing more for indigenous development," Pal said.

The DRDO has often been criticised in the past by experts for delays on key projects, including the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS).

The naval version of the LCA will enter service in December this year (VDM) while the air force will get 20 planes next year. The aircraft is a supersonic, all-weather fighter which has been under development for more than two decades.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 30 Jan 2009 12:43

On why India needs to diversify its military technology partners

South Africa : IA and IAF requirements. Denel though black listed has very significant expertise in a broad range of military hardware from artillery guns to SAMs,special equipment,specialised propellants.

South Korea : IN requirements : capital ships;DSRVs;large caliber guns including tanks


This list can be more if some one would care to add to it.

Dont depend on Israel buddies too much ! A friend is a friend as long as you dont become dependent on him ; once that happens the relationship changes, and anyway there are no permanent friends or enemies in geopolitics.

The issues of kick backs and politik should be seen in the light of bigger national interests.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Div » 02 Feb 2009 10:55

kit wrote:On why India needs to diversify its military technology partners

South Africa : IA and IAF requirements. Denel though black listed has very significant expertise in a broad range of military hardware from artillery guns to SAMs,special equipment,specialised propellants.

South Korea : IN requirements : capital ships;DSRVs;large caliber guns including tanks


This list can be more if some one would care to add to it.

Dont depend on Israel buddies too much ! A friend is a friend as long as you dont become dependent on him ; once that happens the relationship changes, and anyway there are no permanent friends or enemies in geopolitics.

The issues of kick backs and politik should be seen in the light of bigger national interests.


Denel was in some trouble 3-4 years ago and ended up parterning with a bunch of European companies. Wouldn't surprise me that the chance for major collaboration or an equity stake has been lost.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Dmurphy » 02 Feb 2009 11:53

Div wrote:Denel was in some trouble 3-4 years ago and ended up parterning with a bunch of European companies. Wouldn't surprise me that the chance for major collaboration or an equity stake has been lost.


IIRC, it dates back to Tehelka's "Operation West End". But i heard the GOI is now cozying up to them post 26/11. Ditto Rafael (Israel)

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2009 14:20

DM, any source for that ?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 02 Feb 2009 21:45

cross posting from ABM thread.

Russia losing air defence market in India

according to arms-tass Rosoboronexport sales to India fell from 2 billion in 2003 to 1.35 billion in 2005.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby NRao » 02 Feb 2009 23:54

ajay_ijn wrote:cross posting from ABM thread.

Russia losing air defence market in India


The correct title from TASS is : "Russia not to supply air defense systems to India in near future"

The title provided by you: "Russia losing air defence market in India", is from an Iranian web site

The reason given for "not supply air defence" is "India has begun to develop air defense according to scientific principles of other countries, and has progressed far in this field," he said answering an Itar-Tass question." A very valid reason.

according to arms-tass Rosoboronexport sales to India fell from 2 billion in 2003 to 1.35 billion in 2005.


That TASS report is from 2007!!

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby JaiS » 03 Feb 2009 03:05

Kazan' to Provide India with Mi-17V-5


The order for 80 Mi-17V-5 military transport helicopters intended for India will be placed at OAO Kazan' Helicopter Plant. As the official Tatarstan Republic server reports, the enterprise's deputy general marketing, sales ands service director, Vitaliy Vasyutkin, made the announcement.

A decision that the helicopters for India will be assembled in Kazan' was adopted initially, the top manager emphasized. In his opinion, such a choice is explained by the fact that "there have not been and are no other type of rotary-winged aircraft manufactured in this country except Kazan's. "They make a fine showing of themselves. The contract will be fulfilled in 2010 - 2013. Indian specialists will arrive in Kazan' to accept the helicopters," Vasyutkin specified.

As the plant's marketing director emphasized, "along with the Indian contract there are order of different federal structures being fulfilled and to be fulfilled." "So it is not surprising that the Kazan' Helicopter Plant has not stopped hiring qualified workers," Vasyutkin specified.

It is recalled that it became known in December 2008 that Russia and India entered into a contract for the delivery of 80 Mi-17V-5 military transport helicopters. The contract was signed as a result of the discussions of Russia's president Dmitriy Medvedev and India's prime minister Manmohan Singh.

An agreement in principle on the purchase by the Indian air force of the Mi-17 helicopters was reached in March 2007 at a meeting of the Russo-Indian intergovernmental commission on military and technical cooperation.

The Mi-17V-5 assault transport is a modification of the Mi-8MT helicopter developed taking into account combat experience. In particular, drop time, which is especially important in combat conditions, has been minimized. Thus, 36 men can get out of the helicopter in only 15 seconds. Moreover, the Mi-17V-5 is equipped with a non-parachute assault system ((SISTEMA BESPARASHYUTNOGO DESANTIROVANIYA)) that allows lowering ((SPUSK)) four men simultaneously.

Source: 27.01.09, RosBalt

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 03 Feb 2009 07:22

NRao wrote:
ajay_ijn wrote:cross posting from ABM thread.

Russia losing air defence market in India


The correct title from TASS is : "Russia not to supply air defense systems to India in near future"

The title provided by you: "Russia losing air defence market in India", is from an Iranian web site

The reason given for "not supply air defence" is "India has begun to develop air defense according to scientific principles of other countries, and has progressed far in this field," he said answering an Itar-Tass question." A very valid reason.

DDM made mistakes, So corrected the title.

That TASS report is from 2007!!

yes its not a recent news, just pointing to the general trend of falling sales to India.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 03 Feb 2009 09:08

Boeing to sign offset contracts worth 600 million with seven Indian companies
Bangalore: American plane makerBoeing Co. will buy aerospace structures and aviation electronics products worth at least $600 million, or Rs2,941 crore, from seven firms in India as part of the so-called offsets against winning a $2.1 billion contract early in January to supply eight P-8I reconnaissance planes to the Indian Navy.

According to two persons familiar with the development, the offset contracts are being placed with Larsen and Toubro Ltd (L&T), Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), Wipro Ltd, HCL Technologies Ltd , Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), Dynamatic Technologies Ltd and Macmet Technologies Ltd, a unit of Canada’s aerospace simulator maker CAE Inc. They did not share details about the contract division.

On 9 January, Boeing said the first of the P-8I, a variant of the P-8A Poseidon, the long-range marine patrol and anti-submarine warfare aircraft, will be delivered to the Indian Navy, its first non-US customer, by 2011. The remaining will be delivered by 2015.
“Our team is working on the offset strategy and will be in touch with industry partners in a while,” said Swati Rangachari, a spokeswoman for Boeing in India. “We will concentrate in the areas of avionics (aviation electronics) and aerostructures.”

Wipro, HCL, L&T and HAL declined to comment. Ravish Malhotra, chief operating officer at Dynamatics, confirmed that the firm had been chosen as a vendor.

A BEL executive said the firm had entered into an agreement with Boeing on the offsets contracts, but a contract was yet to be signed. “The scope of work includes supply of communication equipment, radars, electronic warfare systems and contract manufacturing,” said I. V. Sarma, director for research and development at BEL.

Boeing’s is so far the largest offset commitment for an Indian defence deal since the government mandated foreign arms makers to source at least 30% of the value of the contract of more than Rs300 crore from local firms.

On 1 December, Astra Microwave Products Ltd, a Hyderabad based-firm building microwave wireless technologies, said it won a Rs57 crore offset contract from Israel’s ELTA Systems Ltd, against supply of microwave wireless sub systems for India’s defence radar programme. L&T is the other firm to win part of the Rs243 crore deal from ELTA.

India’s imports of military hardware and software could reach a cumulative $30 billion by 2012, according to a study by industry lobby Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India or Assocham. In the same period, Assocham said, Indian companies are expected to get offset orders from global military equipment makers of nearly Rs49,000 crore, or $10 billion.

The biggest of such orders will come from local sourcing in a purchase of 126 fighter aircraft, estimated to cost Rs42,000 crore. “The focus (to source locally) for foreign vendors, at least in the short term, would be in avionics and software, in which India is strong, and also in structural components,” said Ratan Shrivastava, director for aerospace and defence at the New Delhi offices of research firm Frost and Sullivan.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Hiten » 03 Feb 2009 13:59

cross-posting from the PAK-FA thread

looks like the FGFA will now officially get off air

Indian Express - Indo-Russian FGFA project set to take off

........both the countries are willing to bury their differences over the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) and get the project kickstarted by the middle of this year........These issues will be sorted out soon and by the middle of the year we expect to start work so that the aircraft is inducted by 2017,”.......A general contract had been signed in December last year between HAL and Rosoboron Export for the design and development of the aircraft by the Sukhoi design bureau and the Indian aviation major.


Recession casting its evil shadow on HAL :|
HAL’s plans to set up an aerospace MRO (maintenance, repair and overhauling) facility at the HAL airport has been put on hold due to the economic recession.


looks like 2017 will see the much needed increase in our squadron strenght - MRCA, FGFA, LCA [hopefully], all the inducted Flankers

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 03 Feb 2009 21:23

First Russian Mi-171 helicopters to arrive in India by yearend.

Russia will deliver the first of the 80 Mi-171 transport helicopters to India by the end of this year, an official from Russia's state arms export agency said on Monday. The $662 million deal for the supply of 80 of these advanced helicopters was concluded last year December.

The Mi-171 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip helicopter and features more powerful turboshaft engines. The chopper can transport up to 37 fully geared soldiers in a combat sitting arrangement.

"The contract was signed in December, we have already received the down payment and hope that the first helicopter will be delivered to India before the end of the year," the deputy director of Rosoboronexport, Viktor Komardin, said.

India deploys a fleet of ageing 150 Russian-made Mi-8 and Mi-17 medium-lift helicopters.

sum
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sum » 03 Feb 2009 21:56

Russia will deliver the first of the 80 Mi-171 transport helicopters to India by the end of this year, an official from Russia's state arms export agency said on Monday. The $662 million deal for the supply of 80 of these advanced helicopters was concluded last year December.

Going by recent Russkie record, i somehow doubt it. Also doubtful if we will get it at the same cost as what we signed the contract for.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby krishnan » 03 Feb 2009 21:58

Delay the initial nos and then rise the price for the rest, sighting cost escalation.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pkudva » 03 Feb 2009 23:19

It was a 1 Billion Dollar Deal isnt it, then now the papers are saying 662$ million. What a joke.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nitesh » 04 Feb 2009 10:06

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=LAN

India's BDL To Build Milan 2T Missiles
By vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 3 Feb 19:03 EST (00:03 GMT)


NEW DELHI - Under a January agreement, MBDA of France will transfer technology to India's state-owned Bharat Dynamics Ltd. (BDL) to build advanced Milan 2T anti-tank guided missiles under license at Indian facilities.

The Indian Army has ordered more than 4,000 Milan 2T missiles, which will be inducted within three years at a cost of about $14,000 per missile. :shock:

BDL has produced Milan ATGMs since 1983. The 2T version adds a tandem warhead for use against tanks protected with explosive reactive armor, a senior Army official said. The Milan 2Ts will be used for both infantry and anti-tank purposes, said the Indian official.

The Milan 2T also can be carried by troops while the older Nag anti-tank missile :eek: :shock: has to be mounted on a chassis, the official said.

The Army is seeking about 7,000 more anti-tank missiles, a gap that will be filled by producing Milan ER and buying foreign-made missiles, the Army official said.

The Indian Air Force has also asked to buy an undisclosed number of anti-tank missiles to arm its helicopters.

Meanwhile, talks continue between MBDA and BDL on the Milan Extended Range (ER) missile. The two companies signed a memorandum of understanding in 2005 to produce Milan ERs at Indian facilities for domestic and foreign purchase. Defence Ministry sources said the joint venture would produce a variety of missiles.

India's current anti-tank missiles include the Milan-2 and Konkurs manufactured by BDL under license from France and Russia. The Army has also bought a few Russian Kornets and Israeli Spikes to test on its armor.

Last year, the Army ordered 4,000 Konkurs-M missiles plus 443 homegrown Nag anti-tank missiles and 13 tracked Namica missiles carriers for induction in the next three years.

BDL will make the Nag, which was conceived by the Defence Research and Development Organisation in 1983 and is already 10 years behind schedule. The a third-generation fire-and-forget missile can hit the top of targets up to four kilometers away using infrared guidance.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ajay_ijn » 04 Feb 2009 10:31

yes Milan 2T with wire guidance is so much advanced, new, shiny, sophisticated compared to obsolete , oudated Nag with IIR developed by SRDE Indians.

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ADA to develop medium combat aircraft

Postby Hiten » 04 Feb 2009 17:24

looks like MCA has been officially announced

Domain-B - ADA to develop medium combat aircraft

ndia's Aeronautical Development Agency, a Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) lab, will design and develop a medium combat aircraft with "stealth features" in partnership with Indian Air Force.......

.....They (IAF) are also coming forward to evolve the specifications of medium combat aircraft...what we call next generation fighter aircraft.....

.....a twin-engine, 20-tonne aircraft, likely to be powered by a Kaveri-Snecma engine....


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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kidoman » 04 Feb 2009 18:53

ajay_ijn wrote:yes Milan 2T with wire guidance is so much advanced, new, shiny, sophisticated compared to obsolete , oudated Nag with IIR developed by SRDE Indians.


But the sad part is, its a SDRE (vivek raghuvanshi) report. :( :( :(

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 05 Feb 2009 00:56

India readies $3.1 bn for surveillance buys.

India’s defence authorities plan to procure new surveillance systems and at least 4 new radar-equipped helicopters worth almost $3.1
billion in a bid to modernise the armed forces with more sophisticated weapon systems.

“The evaluations are yet to start, but vendors from Germany, Czech, Israel and US have already started exploring contracts worth $3.1 billion,” a person familiar with the proposals told ET on conditions of anonymity. He added that the armed forces plan to procure 3 airborne radar, atleast 4 battle-equipped helicopters and around 10-12 new surveillance systems.

In December 2003, India had signed a $1.1-billion contract with Israel for procurement of three Phalcon early warning radar systems. The new surveillance systems being discussed do not include the Phalcon contract.

While the procurement of surveillance systems will happen over the next few months, the defence authorities are expected to review battle-equipped helicopters during the Aero India show being held in Bangalore next week.

The procurement of latest surveillance systems will help India move from unmanned surveillance to a more sophisticated system, wherein assessment could be done real time, allowing better intelligence for the armed forces.

With around 23.4 billion military spend in 2007, India is ranked 10th by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute in terms of defence expenditure. This year, the country is expected to spend over $30 billion in procuring latest equipments and systems for modernising its armed forces.

Another person familiar with the developments told ET on conditions of anonymity that Israel-based Elta Systems, Kazan Helicopters of Russia apart from US-headquartered Raytheon are among the companies exploring to bid for these contracts.

An Elta Systems spokesperson based in Israel did not respond to an email query sent by ET on Tuesday. When contacted by ET on Tuesday a defence spokesperson said procurement of such equipments is a complex and time consuming task.

“It is complex in terms of procedure, but every effort is made to acquire the best product at the most competitive price without compromising on the quality,” he said. He could not offer any specific comments about the stage of evaluating the proposed equipments.

Experts such as Ratan Shrivastava, who is the practice head and director for aerospace and defence at Frost and Sullivan, say that India’s ambitions to move from un-manned surveillance to real time surveillance of its borders is what is driving the modernisation programme.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sunilUpa » 05 Feb 2009 03:20

^^^ :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Battle equipped helicopters? that too whole 4 of them? :rotfl: :rotfl:

If the airbornce system is not Phalcon, wonder what they are..

1. Joint Star equivalent?
2. Electronic intel/warfare system?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby aditp » 05 Feb 2009 12:00

In December 2003, India had signed a $1.1-billion contract with Israel for procurement of three Phalcon early warning radar systems.


India’s defence authorities plan to procure new surveillance systems and at least 4 new radar-equipped helicopters worth almost $3.1
billion


:eek: :rotfl: :eek:


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