It is true that the GSQR changed.
It was in consultation with the DRDO and not without.
Would you, as an Indian citizen, be happy and comfortable to be in 2009 with a 1980 tank which is obsolete and is not capable to meeting the current battlefield environment? And to make the matter worse, the adversary having tanks that are current!
You maybe, but ask those who will lose their lives in such a coffin!
Yes, I get that GSQRs change. My point is that for anyone to make the argument that "Arjun cant be inducted because it is disruptive, plays merry hell with our logistical change and requires lots of effort" is being hypocritical. The same GSQRs were framed by IA. Now for the same IA to turn around and say that it has resulted in the tank causes other issues, is strange to put it mildly. IA is full of capable, intelligent men who are resourceful and visionary. Surely they would have known how their GSQRs would impact the logistical chain. Why then make that argument? If you ask for something and you get it, surely you should be expected to take responsibility for the outcome.
I guess there are other aspects to this as well. IA and IAF never believed in the concept of tranches where one accepts an initial version with reduced capabilities to keep the production line going in exchange for a full featured version some time later. They want everything in the first version. This may be because IA and IAF has historically been starved of funds, and when something does get allocated, they typically want the best and do not want to work /wait with a phased approach. It was fine earlier, but with local products coming up to the mark, it may be time to rethink this approach.
Interestingly, the Army seems to have no qualms about accepting reduced capability T90s initially and then upgrade them with the Shtora suite...
RayC: A sincere request. I love your posts and it provides a refreshing perspective of things, and always read the threads where you participate. However could you please tone down the "You cant comment unless you enlist / you dont know because you arent enlisted / You won't understand unless you enlist" theme? No one is an expert on everything, yet this is a forum and thats why we are here, to participate and learn on things that we arent experts on. You have a habit of cutting off people by that argument. I notice that you used the same argument with Mohan G in the other thread, stating that he is not an expert to comment on Army selection procedures. Fair enough... but I dont think you are an expert on banking issues and the mechanics of setting up a bank, which Mohan G is, but that didnt stop you from arguing did it?
Just my frank thoughts.
I appreciate your comment that I should not use the "You cant comment unless you enlist / you dont know because you arent enlisted / You won't understand unless you enlist" theme. I try not to do so. My sole purpose is to explain, within my limited knowledge, as to whys and whereofs.
All members are equal here on this forum and so when someone acts hoity toity (and it is not you) and lectures a person who has 39 years in uniform and 35 as a commissioned officer, based on merely theoretical knowledge and borrowing anecdotes from foreign armies, then there is a good chance of the hands on experienced person to get a wee bit off.
If one saw the film Longest Day and quoted it as the be all and end all of war to a person who actually participated in the Longest Day i.e. the Normandy Landings, and that was drummed in as the ‘last word’, then the person who participated in the Longest Day would be dumbfounded as to whether he was merely poodlefaking! But yes, questions should be asked and if not satisfactory to the questioner, he should ask further, but the hands on experienced person should not be given the impression that he merely poodlefaked and the theory man and his Longest Day film are the real McCoys! And the temerity to state that a visionary like Gen Joshi did not know his beans! So Gen Joshi is a fool and these bookish chap is the last word on military! I don't remember who it was, but there was a chap who did lampoon Gen Joshi!
To be frank, whether Arjun is inducted or not, it is not for me to say. It is for the Govt and the Army. Yet, should the Army accept equipment that is not sterling, one does get uncomfortable, since the lives of our soldier and the sovereignty is paramount. That is the subconscious that is drilled into us and that is why those bravehearts in Kargil and other wars went to their deaths without any fear, knowing that is their duty and that the Nation has given them the best equipment that the Nation could afford.
Don't you think that before one drumbeats for the DRDO, they spare a thought for the soldiers and officers and then give a balanced view? Have I not brought out the Gurdial Gun and the IFG as successes? What is good is good, but one just cannot turn a blind eye to equipment still not up to scratch. Spare a thought for the soldier and officers who have been so loyal to the Nation. Do they deserve equipment whatever has been produced out a notion of giving a chance to Indian DRDO? There is so much of grouse over the 6th Pay Commission, but have we acted disgracefully as the Pakistan Army who do a coup at the drop of a hat or have we mutinied like the Bangladesh Rifles? The indignities that are being heaped by the Govt and its bureaucrats are monumental and yet the military stand firm by the tenets of democracy. Must we also be saddled with equipment that does not fit the bill? Are our lives that cheap? Is that what the Nation wants to do to us?
The GSQR is not a military show alone.
The logistics are taken into consideration. The Railways have long ago stated that BG lines would be taken up to the Rajasthan border. Roads were supposed to be able to take the tank load and the bridges widened and strengthened. Now, if they are not done, whose fault is it? The Ministries live on dreams and false promises that they cannot fulfil willingly or unwillingy! As good as the silly slogan Roti Kapda aur Makan and Garibi Hatao! Fooling all and making an ass of all! Have all Indians got Roti, Kapda aur Makan or has Garibi been Hataoed? If so, what’s all this hoop la over Slumdog Millionaire and that bloke Singhvi states that it is good governance! These hoaxster crawl out of the cupboards in Delhi and they are all over.
IA also does not believe in tranches. But if the prototype takes donkey's year to surface and by that time, the adversary has the latest, what do you expect the IA to do? Accept whatever is laid on the platter and build its fleet on that and be decimated at a high cost in men and materiel on the battlefield?
As far as MohanG and Somnath goes, I learnt a lot of banking procedures and norms for them. However, they are not aware of the funds available to the Army even though they are doled out over the financial year. It is not mere Regimental Funds, which is a drop in the ocean. That was my contention. And it would be run as per Indian banking practices by qualified bankers and not by Army men. Further, it was a plan that Gen Joshi and his advisors had formulated and I am not in the know of the working details. Obviously, they knew what they were doing, just like the AWHO which is beneficial for the Army personnel and yet it is a financial organisation! If that has succeeded way before home loans became popular, why should we think that Gen Joshi's plan was harebrained (which someone used)?
How is the AWHO scheme such a thumping success? This is a financial institution.