Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 27 Oct 2009 02:08

"I reject it. I think we want Taliban and Talibanism to be totally eliminated," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said here.

Damn! Now the Taliban will accuse India of funding the PA.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 27 Oct 2009 02:20

Pakistanis too scared to leave home, many want to flee country

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 166427.cms

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 27 Oct 2009 02:41

Pakistan’s costly controversy

...
But the debate did bring about some other changes, and in the light of this, some observers have questioned the real motives behind the protests. The entire one-month hysteria in Pakistan over the Bill, after it was already passed by the U.S. Congress, resulted in drastically altering the civil-military balance in favour of the military. It left the democratically elected Pakistan People’s Party-led government considerably weaker than it was. It served to isolate President Asif Ali Zardari, and shattered the nerves of the government. It confirmed the Pakistan Army as numero uno.

The debate showed up Nawaz Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League (N) in clearer light. Despite his thunder about the need to keep the military subservient to civilian rule, his party chose to oppose a U.S. Bill that wants exactly this.

With some exceptions, the Pakistani media too, despite their pride in opposing military rule, made no bones about which side they were on over this issue, saying the government’s “stupidity” in allowing the U.S. to impose such conditions left them with no choice.
...

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Oct 2009 03:27

Pakistan not Al-Qaeda stronghold: Kerry

http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90110

Pakistan is not only the headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world," said Kerry]

But Kerry has said the exact opposite!

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Oct 2009 03:51

saip wrote:Pakistan not Al-Qaeda stronghold: Kerry

http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90110

Pakistan is not only the headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world," said Kerry]
But Kerry has said the exact opposite!

"not only <blah blah blah>" in Pinglish means NOT <blah blah blah> onleee...

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 27 Oct 2009 03:55

saip, what, Pakis lie? I am shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Also, what is with this "can easily become" stuff, Kerry sahib? Where is the epicenter right now?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 27 Oct 2009 04:01

Lashkar publications back in Pak, Jaish opens new madrasa in Masood town

Months after Jamaat-ud-Dawa publications were taken off stands in Pakistan following the UN Security Council ban on the outfit, the periodicals are said to be back in circulation under new names. And the other anti-India terror outfit, Jaish-e-Mohammed, has inaugurated a new madrasa in Bahawalpur on behalf of its head Maulana Masood Azhar.

This flies in the face of India’s diplomatic efforts to get Pakistan to rein in these outfits after the Mumbai terror attack. With the Pakistan government failing to build a credible case against LeT founder and JuD head Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, sources said, the outfit’s propaganda machine has suddenly become more energetic.

JuD’s weekly newspaper Ghazwah is said to have reappeared as Jarrar. Women’s monthly Tayyibat is now replaced by Al Sifat, students monthly Zarb-e-Taiba is said to have been renamed Akhbaar-e-Taiba while another periodical Al-Daawa is said to have the hit stands under the name Al-Harmain.
...
...

James B · Post by **James B** » 27 Oct 2009 05:13

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90094

Rangers have apprehended an Indian spy from Lahore, near the Indo-Pak border area of Bedian on Monday.
This is the second arrest of an Indian spy in the last 48 hours.

As per details, Rabi Gopal , 25, was arrested from Wagha border in the wee hours of Monday. Rangers’ personnel have claimed to recover important documents from his possession.

Earlier, another Indian secret agent named Giyan Chandar was arrested by the authorities from Kala Katai two days ago. It is also learnt that both the arrested were not carrying travel documents including passport.The Rangers have handed over both the Indian agents to intelligence agencies for further investigation

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Oct 2009 05:35

raghunath wrote:http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90094

Rangers have apprehended an Indian spy from Lahore, near the Indo-Pak border area of Bedian on Monday.
This is the second arrest of an Indian spy in the last 48 hours.

As per details, Rabi Gopal , 25, was arrested from Wagha border in the wee hours of Monday. Rangers’ personnel have claimed to recover important documents from his possession.

Earlier, another Indian secret agent named Giyan Chandar was arrested by the authorities from Kala Katai two days ago. It is also learnt that both the arrested were not carrying travel documents including passport.The Rangers have handed over both the Indian agents to intelligence agencies for further investigation

Oh God! 008 and 011 are captured? I have to call M now. Duty calls!

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 27 Oct 2009 05:51

Nandu wrote:
Also, what is with this "can easily become" stuff, Kerry sahib? Where is the epicenter right now?

The epicenter is in Dearborn, Michigan right now.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Oct 2009 06:09

gandharva wrote:Pakistanis too scared to leave home, many want to flee country

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 166427.cms

This very strange , dont they now Pakistan ka Matlab kya hai ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Oct 2009 06:18

Jaspreet wrote:
"I reject it. I think we want Taliban and Talibanism to be totally eliminated," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said here.
Damn! Now the Taliban will accuse India of funding the PA.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 06:48

CalvinH wrote:I think they were pak army regulars or NLI regulars. Even if they were "miscreants" its been more then 10 years to the incident.

CalvinH, I took care to use the term MANPADs. As Johann says, one should assume that ANZAs are available with the Taliban because POF manufactures them. Anyway, there are multiple sources of confirmation that Stingers were deployed and used in Kargil. JN Dixit says in his book, "India-Pakistan in War and Peace",

Two incidents which crystallized US reaction to Kargil were, first, the shooting down of two fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force by surface-to-air missiles on 27 May and the shooting of an MI-17 helicopter by a Stinger missile on 29 May. India had launched air strikes on 26. Apart from being a factual assessment of the ground realities, the US stance was also rooted in concern that Stinger missiles and more sophisticated weaponry being used by Pakistani troops was from arms supplied to the mujahideen by the US at the height of the Afghanistan conflict in the 1980s.

The Director of Operations, PAF, during Kargil has confirmed deploying Stingers

PAF Air Commodore (retd) Kaiser Tufail, the man who “interrogated” IAF Flight Lieutenant K Nachiketa after his MiG-27 crashed in PoK during a bombing run in the initial days of the war, has laid bare the detailed Kargil plan by the Pakistan Army. Tufail, a decorated fighter pilot who was in charge of air operations during the war, has revealed that the Pak Army placed Stinger shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles on hill tops

CalvinH wrote:Add 10-15 more years before for the stinger was originally supplied to the Afghans for fighting against russies. How long is the shelf life of the missile+launcher without OEM supported maintenance?

As late as circa 2005, Stingers have been recovered from the Taliban. This report in DAWN talks about recovering six Stingers in NWFP in Sep. 2005. As for shelf life etc. we should not simply assume that all Stingers were the ones that the US had given to the mujahideen during Afghan jihad. There have been several attempts to 'buy' Stingers and quite a few Pakistanis have been caught doing that. Who knows how many were not caught ? Rehman Malik confirmed that Stingers were coming in to Pakistan as recently as March 2009.

Incidentally, the above report also talks about 'anti tank mines' being recovered.

CalvinH wrote:Free MANPADS like that will worry Khan too

That's exactly what the US commanders expressed as late as in c. 2006, per this report. One of the reasons that Pres. George Bush arrived in Pakistan in the dead of night in March 2006, unannounced and with the plane's lights switched off was because the US was scared of the Stingers. Obviously, they were worried about the Stingers in the hands of the 'non-state actors'. We also know that Nawaz Sharif's Army Chief Abdul Waheed Kakar and his jihadi born-again-Muslim ISI Chief Javid Nasir refused to help CIA mop up the loose Stingers.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Oct 2009 07:59

I feel I am missing something about the situation in Pukistan. There has been fairly widespread mayhem, attacks on the army itself and if figures are to be believed as reported - anywhere between 30,000 and 80,000 troops have been moved to Pakistan's northwest.

In the good old days - when the Pakistan army was attacked or even opposed politically, they would simply take over the country and run it. That has not happened this time and I can only guess the possible reasons:

1) The Pakistan army does not think that things are bad enough. I doubt this. This is the worst internal disorder situation that the Paki army has faced since 1971

2) The Pakistan army is unable to take over: This is a possibility - ie that the PakArmy is up RayC's gum tree.

They have spent too many decades deputing paki army personnel to train jihadis as anti India forces. In addition, a large percentage of Paki army personnel are Pashtuns.

The Paki army relationship with the jihadis was as follows. You do our job fro us and fight India. We will support you and fund you but we will deny that we have anything to do with you and say that you are "popular democratic freedom fighters". India cannot touch us and we will not touch you and stupid Americans will pay us. Good for us. Good for you as long as USA stands for "U Stupid Americans"

But now the stupid Americans are attacking the jihadis and the latter want relief. As long as stupid Americans were continuing to pay the Pak army, the army told the jihadis - OK we will keep paying you, just accept a few deaths on our behalf. But even the Stupid Americans are growing brains and are asking for accounts. And 26/11 made India grow some balls and tell the Stupid Americans that this can't continue.

So the Pak army is being reluctantly forced against itself. If the army "takes over" - it will be opposing the US and will lose all funding. So for the time being it is allowing the chaos to continue.

One way out for the Pakistan army is to undergo a Iran type revolution and start opposing the US. But with India sittng next door on one side and Amirkhan on the other side an Islamic revolution will raise fears in Pakistan that US/India/Israel will grab Pakistan's nuclear jewels. This possibility exists. Pakistan will have to threaten to use her nukes if they feel that threat becoming reality - but if they do - all bets are off - the current Paki army leadership will become war criminals and be wiped out.

Pakistan's nukes, I am sure, are being closely watched. Their "best bet" may be to smuggle one or two nukes out where they can be safe and used for blackmail on a rainier day. But that won't get them more funding or relieve American and Taliban pressure on Pakistan.

It is here that my mind goes blank - don't know what to expect...

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 27 Oct 2009 08:33

There is definitely a division in the ranks of ISI and TSP Army.
The ISI does not want its cadre of jihadi elements destroyed at the behest of Amerikhans.
The Taller than mountains have also applied pressure on the TSP Army that this molly coddling of jihadi elements is no good for TSP in the long run. So its a stalemate in the ISI and TSP Army camps.

Meanwhile the TSP army knows that the coffers are empty and Amrikhans crumbs are needed. Karazi meanwhile sensing pressure from Amerikhans for the alleged rigging is now saying Taliban are justified in violence because of indiscriminate bombing of civilians in the name of war on terror. While TSP Army is on slaughtering the Taliban.

Situation is fluid and TSP army is just waiting for the signal from Duplicity for coup mohurat. But the fad of the season is democracy, even though duplicity wants ideally a Generalissimo in Islamabad, but asking for run off election in Afghanistan and foisting a dictator in Islamabad is some what belittling the peace prize no?

So a little fluid now, let the TSP army take a beating Kiyanahi will be history.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 27 Oct 2009 08:35

saip wrote:Pakistan not Al-Qaeda stronghold: Kerry

http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90110

Pakistan is not only the headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world," said Kerry]
But Kerry has said the exact opposite!

Kerry told - Pakistan is not only the headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world
Bakistanis heard / understood - Pakistan is not the only headquarters of al-Qaeda today, but it could easily become the epicenter of extremism in the world

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 27 Oct 2009 09:00

shiv wrote:One way out for the Pakistan army is to undergo a Iran type revolution and start opposing the US. But with India sittng next door on one side and Amirkhan on the other side an Islamic revolution will raise fears in Pakistan that US/India/Israel will grab Pakistan's nuclear jewels. This possibility exists. Pakistan will have to threaten to use her nukes if they feel that threat becoming reality - but if they do - all bets are off - the current Paki army leadership will become war criminals and be wiped out.

Pakistan's nukes, I am sure, are being closely watched. Their "best bet" may be to smuggle one or two nukes out where they can be safe and used for blackmail on a rainier day. But that won't get them more funding or relieve American and Taliban pressure on Pakistan.

It is here that my mind goes blank - don't know what to expect...

Very good analysis. However, it is not that difficult, if there is nuke attack on Pak forces, all the above issues will vanish. Taliban, Pakarmy, Pak Govt, China & US will be happy. The unhappy folks would be India and Afghan. It might give an additional leverage for Obama to tear off the IUCNA.

Basically, pushed to wall, Pakarmy might pull off a suicide drama

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Oct 2009 09:42

Umrao Das wrote: ...
While TSP Army is on slaughtering the Taliban.
...

Is that a fact? Are the bodies of deceased taliban being shown on TV? From what I have followed, no reporters or foreigners are allowed even in the cities like Mirpurkhas or Dera Ismail Khan or whatever, let alone the front lines. Not even the political leadership is allowed there, for the usual cheering up of troops etc. So, what is actually happening is anyone's guess.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Oct 2009 09:48

TSPA cant pull an Iran for their is no theological fervor akin to Khomeini.

I believe one more ambush by TTP they will defect to them and rest will retreat to the cities and cantonments. One might not believe it but its like the Ghorid times.

Incidentally the TSPA is not even giving out 100% assurances a far cry from Mushy's 400% ones.

A good hedge will be to open lines of communications with regional/provincial leaders.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 10:39

Brigadier escapes terrorist attack in Islamabad

Unidentified terrorists opened fire on an army Brigadier’s jeep in sector I/9 area here on Tuesday but all the persons on vehicle escaped unharmed, Geo news quoted police sources as saying.

According to eyewitnesses, the senior army official, along his mother and driver, narrowly escaped the attack whereas offenders have managed to flee from the firing scene.

“The assailant was waiting for 15 minutes outside army official home to launch terrorist strike”, witnesses said adding, “The police troops have cordoned off the entire area, meanwhile, the security of the area has been beefed up”.

manish · Post by **manish** » 27 Oct 2009 11:22

Meanwhile, a senior US official has put in his papers in Afghanistan, citing his dissatisfaction over the current US policies.
U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

But last month, in a move that has sent ripples all the way to the White House, Hoh, 36, became the first U.S. official known to resign in protest over the Afghan war, which he had come to believe simply fueled the insurgency.

But the relevant part for this thread lies in his resignation letter.

....To follow the logic of our stated goals, we should garrison Pakistan, not Afghanistan.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 27 Oct 2009 11:52

KV Rao wrote:
Umrao Das wrote: ...
While TSP Army is on slaughtering the Taliban.
...
Is that a fact? Are the bodies of deceased taliban being shown on TV? From what I have followed, no reporters or foreigners are allowed even in the cities like Mirpurkhas or Dera Ismail Khan or whatever, let alone the front lines. Not even the political leadership is allowed there, for the usual cheering up of troops etc. So, what is actually happening is anyone's guess.

What you don't believe the reports of 72,0000000000000000.... casualties of miscreants.

amit · Post by **amit** » 27 Oct 2009 12:18

milindc wrote:What you don't believe the reports of 72,0000000000000000.... casualties of miscreants.

Simple.

There's no reports of shortage of houris in Jannat. So a less number of true Momins are migrating there.

chilarai · Post by **chilarai** » 27 Oct 2009 13:05

SSridhar wrote:Brigadier escapes terrorist attack in Islamabad

Brigadiers are the PA equivalent of Taliban #3 . PA arrests Taliban #3s and the misguided youths in return go after the Brigadiers.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 13:13

India asks its citizens not to visit Pakistan

The Ministry of Home Affairs has advised Indian citizens to avoid visiting Pakistan in view of deteriorating security situation there.

In an advisory, the MHA has said that the Government of India is of the view that it is not advisable for the Indian pilgrims to visit Pakistan in the prevailing situation when frequent terrorist attacks are taking place in Punjab [ Images ] province of Pakistan, where all gurudwaras are situated.

Accordingly, the government has advised all Indian citizens to avoid undertaking any visit to Pakistan for this purpose, till the improvement of the security situation in Pakistan.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Oct 2009 13:16

I would have expected the taller than the Himalaya’s and deeper than the oceans friend, PR China, to be more considerate of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s honour and dignity

.

This news item does certainly bring to mind the idiom, like rats deserting a sinking ship

:

Chinese Embassy in Pakistan raises vigilance to protect local Chinese

2009-10-27 09:42 BJT

As the security situation in Pakistan continues to worsen, the Chinese Embassy in Islamabad has activated emergency plans to protect local Chinese residents, students, and company employees. The embassy is also reinforcing self-protection procedures. .......................

The Chinese Embassy recently tightened up self-protection, with employees cutting unnecessary public activities and outside trips, as well. Meanwhile, food, vegetables, meat, potable water, and diesel oil for electricity generation are being kept in storage. The stockpile can sustain staff members for up to 20 days if necessary. The embassy also is growing a vegetable plot as a reserve food source for its employees. ...............................

China Central Television

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2009 13:39

almost feels like they are preparing for a total breakdown and prolonged siege until the first 'fist units' fly in and rescue them from kashgar.

during the long and bitter 900 day siege of Leningrad, every piece of pavement in the two was torn up and
the exposed earth used to grow vegetables. only small supplies could be sneaked in during winter via frozen
lake ladoga. men, women, children everyone defended their country. rations started at 500gm/person/day and
ended at 120gm/person/day when red army armoured forces broke the siege. strong countries emerge from
such crucibles.

I say everyone in the panda embassy has to defend the ramparts! no retreat, no surrender!

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 27 Oct 2009 14:56

BBC: Pakistan 'key' to UK terror plots

The article also shows a pic of a terrorist camp in UK. Yeah right!!!

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 27 Oct 2009 15:24

Some interesting financial news from Pakistan
Finance Ministry refuses to arrange funds for Pakistan State Oil

The Finance Ministry has refused to arrange funds for Pakistan State Oil (PSO), saying that it is not PSO's 'collection agent'. Sources in the Ministry told Business Recorder that PSO management had sent an SOS letter to Petroleum and Finance Ministries to arrange Rs 35 billion {approx. US$ 440 million} to secure Letters of Credit (LCs) otherwise it feared that it would default on LCs by the end of the current month.
...
"If PSO stops fuel supply to power sector due to non-payment of dues, the scale of load shedding would surpass any the country has experienced to date", sources said.
...
Refineries have also expressed inability to provide fuel to PSO if their dues were not cleared. PRL is one of the refineries that had warned that it would stop fuel supply after October 28, and would shut down if its dues worth Rs 13 billion were not paid. At present, it is operating below 70 percent refining capacity due to poor financial health.

link

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 15:49

Lahore High Court rejects plea against drone attacks

Advocate Dr. Basit pleaded the court to declare US an enemy country and seized assets of US.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 27 Oct 2009 16:05

Headlines Today channel (part of India Today) running promos for program
- Pakistan or Terroristan ?

Hopefully Terroristan becomes mainstream...

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Oct 2009 16:21

A fine Mess ?...Indeed!

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... emen-zj-04

A fine mess what, gentlemen By Kamran Shafi

Tuesday, 27 Oct, 2009 Interior Minister Rehman Malik, left, talks to his Iranian counterpart Mostafa Mohammad Najjar during their meeting in Islamabad. Najjar is in Pakistan for talks on efforts to battle a Sunni militant group blamed for a recent suicide bombing that killed top Revolutionary Guard commanders and dozens of others. –AP Photo What gives? I mean, really! As if our problems with India and Afghanistan; and in our own provinces of the Frontier and Balochistan and possibly soon in southern Punjab were not enough! As if the security situation in our country was not already as dire as to dictate the closure of all schools and universities for a week and as if we were not in the throes of violence never seen before, we have now riled the Iranians enough for them to send their interior minister to Pakistan for a whole week to present evidence that Jundallah cadres regularly cross the Pakistan-Iran border to wreak havoc in Iran.

The latest incident was the bombing of a meeting of senior Revolutionary Guard commanders in which several generals and other senior officers were killed.
Then for days on end news circulates in all of the media that the army has made pacts with certain anti-US but not necessarily anti-Pakistan extremist fanatics in Waziristan such as Maulvi Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadur to get safe passage through their areas as it advances towards Hakimullah Mehsud.

On the seventh day of this news doing the rounds with no clarification, and possibly after American displeasure, this news suddenly changes to suggest that the pacts were made by the civilian government! What is going on?

This is not all. There are persistent reports, specially in this paper, that the Ghazi Force named after Maulana Ghazi Abdul Rashid of the Red Mosque, Islamabad the Beautiful, is still very much active and could well be involved in terror activities not only in Islamabad and Rawalpindi but across the length and breadth of this poor country, marrying up with the yahoos in Waziristan and Swat too.

We must recall immediately, if only to expose the double-facedness of the establishment, that after his death in a completely stupidly planned (and delayed) action against the Lal Masjid, Ghazi’s remains were sent by a government helicopter to his native village in Dera Ghazi Khan for a burial attended by thousands of people.
We must immediately juxtapose this with the treatment given to the hanged Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, an elected and popular leader, at whose funeral not more than 10 people were allowed. Whose wife and daughter were not allowed to attend the last rites of their loved one.

This is not all. Compare this with the way in which two-time elected prime minister Nawaz Sharif, elected chief minister Shahbaz Sharif, and their families were not allowed to come back to the country to attend their dear father’s funeral. Compare it too with the way in which former governor and former elected chief minister Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti was consigned to his grave in a rudely padlocked wooden box with six or seven government lackeys attending.

Amidst all of this, the security establishment persists in leaking stories to the press about the unacceptability of the language used in the Kerry-Lugar bill in what can only be called trying to stare the government down. What purpose this will achieve, apart from destabilising the ‘bloody civilians’ a little bit more, only our Rommels and Guderians can tell us.

What we already know, however, is that the US Congress has put more conditions on military aid to Pakistan, due not only to the ill-thought out ramblings of the Commando while giving lectures in places such as Sioux Falls, SD but also due to the mindless press release issued so arrogantly by GHQ.

As is usual with us, we proceed headlong in our blind quest for making ever bigger fools of ourselves: on Oct 20 the following was quoted in the press, and extensively on the Internet: ‘During a meeting with US Central Command (Centcom chief Gen David Petraeus, he [Gen Kayani] discussed the US providing state-of-the-art weapons to Pakistani forces to help them combat terrorists in the Tribal Areas. The two generals also exchanged views on increasing cooperation in the war on terror and sharing intelligence to combat terrorists of [sic] the region.’

Yet, 12 days before this meeting, the by now infamous ISPR press release had been issued. Does nobody think things through?

When will the establishment stop trying to box above its weight, for heaven’s sake; when will it release its deathly grip on this poor and hapless country’s jugular by forsaking forever its power projection strategy, a ‘strategy’ that has repeatedly brought us (and it) grief? When will it realise that there are no good Maulvi Nazirs and Hafiz Gul Bahadurs?

When will it give up its self-arrogated position of arbiter of what is good and what is not good for Pakistan? When will it understand, if not for the country’s sake then for its own, that there is very little currency in destabilising democracy? And when will it understand that instead of blaming others we must put our own house in order? Case in point: hacks sympathetic to them say that India was behind the attack on GHQ! Where’s the proof then?

By the time you read this, President Asif Zardari and Mr Nawaz Sharif will already have met. Today’s newspapers will be full of what happened last night: did they or did they not achieve a breakthrough?

I am no soothsayer, but I do know this: if these two largest political parties do not rein in their hawks; if the PPP does not fulfill its promises such as implementing the Charter of Democracy, and removing the dictatorial aspects of the 17th Amendment; if the parties do not come to an accommodation, the establishment and its ‘agencies’ will first kill one, then the other.

PS:Another quote from a Dawn correspondent,Mahir Ali, in his piece the "Army's last chance".

For some reason, The New York Times’ Jane Perlez has drifted into the habit of describing the army as an institution that ‘is regarded with the highest esteem among the Pakistani public’. That is patently not the case. Not after Bangladesh, Balochistan, the Zia regime, the Afghan jihad, the Taliban, Kargil and other manifestations of the fixation on Kashmir.

For all its foibles, follies and farces, the army at present has a chance to redeem itself. But the onset of winter may well slam shut this small window of opportunity.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Oct 2009 16:57

Dmurphy wrote:BBC: Pakistan 'key' to UK terror plots

The article also shows a pic of a terrorist camp in UK. Yeah right!!!

For emphasis taking the liberty of posting excerpts from the article besides X posting on other threads.

Heritage Foundation is spot on in its conclusion that the UK’s terrorism problem is principally contributed by those originating from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Page last updated at 09:12 GMT, Tuesday, 27 October 2009

Pakistan 'key' to UK terror plots

By Jonathan Beale
BBC News, Washington

A US report investigating links between Britain and Pakistan says that "a physical and ideological terrorism pipeline" exists between the countries.

The report, published by centre-right think tank The Heritage Foundation, argues that "Pakistan is central" to terrorist plots in Britain.

More than a quarter of those convicted of terrorism in the UK trained or tried to train in Pakistan or Afghanistan. ……………………

The authors, Ted Bromund and Morgan Roach, said the data they analysed showed that 19 out of the 87 individuals convicted of terrorism offences in Britain had family ties to Pakistan.

At least one was a Pakistani citizen, they say, and 61 were affiliated with al-Qaeda. …………………..

Mr Bromund and Mr Roach say that Britain and America "need to break the Pakistan-UK terrorism pipeline."

"Breaking that pipeline is just as important as, but far more difficult than, ending the flow of trained men from Pakistan into Britain." …………………

The referenced Heritage Foundation report titled “ Islamist Terrorist Plots in Great Britain: Uncovering the Global Network “ is available here:

CLICKY

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 17:30

Pressure from the US strains relationship with Pakistan - NYT
Excerpts

The special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard C. Holbrooke, said Friday that the Obama administration would be trying to find out whether the army was simply “dispersing” the militants or “destroying” them, as the United States would like.

From the number of troops in South Waziristan, it was not clear that the army wanted to “finish the task,” said a Western military attaché, who spoke on the condition of anonymity according to diplomatic protocol.

The army would not take over South Waziristan as it had the Swat Valley, where the military is now an occupying force after conducting a campaign in the spring and summer that pushed the Taliban out, the officials said.

It remains to be seen how the campaign will play out in a region where the army has failed in the past, analysts said. The army has sent about 28,000 soldiers to South Waziristan to take on about 10,000 guerrillas, a relatively low ratio, according to military specialists.

In all, of the roughly 28,000 soldiers, there are probably about 11,000 army infantrymen, said Javed Hussain, a retired Pakistani Army brigadier. Instead of a ratio of one to one, he said, the ratio should be at least five to one.

The army appeared to have no plans to occupy South Waziristan, but rather to cut the militants “to size,” said Tariq Fatemi, who served briefly as Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States in 1999.

With the uncertainty of American plans in Afghanistan, and the strong sentiment in Pakistan that India was “up to no good” in the restive province of Baluchistan and the tribal areas, Mr. Fatemi said, the army would not abandon the militant groups that it has relied on to fight as proxies in Afghanistan and in Kashmir against India.

The goal in South Waziristan, Mr. Fatemi said, was to eliminate the leadership that had become “too big of their boots” with the attacks on Pakistan’s cities. The army would like to find more pliant replacements as leaders, he said.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 27 Oct 2009 18:20

gandharva wrote:Pakistanis too scared to leave home, many want to flee country

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 166427.cms

He has left a lucrative job with Pakistan's telecommunication department and now has the immigartion papers for Canada ready for his entire family.

Wonder how the Canadian officials clear their visas?

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 27 Oct 2009 18:28

Bibi at her best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNLYWzZxmIU

manish · Post by **manish** » 27 Oct 2009 18:50

Chandragupta wrote:
gandharva wrote:Pakistanis too scared to leave home, many want to flee country

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 166427.cms

He has left a lucrative job with Pakistan's telecommunication department and now has the immigartion papers for Canada ready for his entire family.

Wonder how the Canadian officials clear their visas?

Dilbullah must be a busy man!

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Oct 2009 19:32

The editor of the Nation, Shireen Mazari is allowing her dislike of the Americans to feed Pakistani paranoia.

Meanwhile deferring to Gen Musharaff’s statement that Pakistanis are better at English than Indian’s

, can someone please tell me since when has the term “death threats” become synonymous with “life threats”?::

Pak journalist receives life threats

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 27 Oct 2009 19:34

^^^ Because to live in TSP is to really die. So letting someone live in TSP is like condemning them to death !!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Oct 2009 20:04

surinder wrote:^^^ Because to live in TSP is to really die. So letting someone live in TSP is like condemning them to death !!!

Well TB eaten Jinnah too had a dream Like MLK and its coming true.

Please note the glory Pakistan brought to Isalm in below picture
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... _detail6-3