Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 16 Oct 2009 03:27

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 16 Oct 2009 03:28

Parliament should decide fate of aid bill, says Nawaz

He recalled that Pakistan had been offered billions of dollars when it was about to become a nuclear power, but his government gave preference to national interests and sovereignty and decided to go ahead with nuclear tests. ‘We broke the begging bowl and strengthened national economy,’ he said.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Oct 2009 03:28

Saad? No its soosaad.

Let us rejoice for once that the pukes are getting their just desserts, and deep in pakjab too. Also there will be another 2611 type attack on india soon and the chakra will repeat itself.

Unfortunately for pakistan, while India will easily persevere, any adversity actually hardens the resolve amongst ordinary Indians to succeed, it has the opposite effect on pakistan, it enlarges the fissures there are within pakistan. There is only so long that they can go on with this.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Oct 2009 04:18

Where is Pakjabi H&D , Pathans are doing soosside blasts in Pakjab and no retaliation so far . Pakjabis are scared to take on Paashtoons living in Pakjab and they will suffer more if they dont kick these Pathans out to NWF. Pakjabis are living upto their reputation being chicken hearted, there is no hope.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 16 Oct 2009 04:46

We can be 99.99% sure that a MAJOR, MAJOR pigLeT attack is imminent.

Najam Sethi normally only indirectly threatens terror attacks.

In this week's TFT, he says this explicitly:

Options for war or peace

Najam Sethi’s E d i t o r i a l

Two inter-related and significant developments in Pakistan in the last seven days have hit world headlines. But there is an underlying third dimension that has not been explicitly debated. Consider.

Pakistan’s military leadership has whipped up the religio-nationalist media and opportunist political opposition to attack the Kerry-Lugar Bill as an unacceptable American attempt to undermine Pakistan’s sovereignty. But a close look at the Bill’s conditions doesn’t reveal any extraordinary trespass that is significantly different from the past under military regimes. So, why has GHQ rapped the US administration and the Zardari regime?

But the Pakistan army is also on the receiving end. The Al-Qaeda-Taliban network has smacked it squarely where it hurts. Four major terrorist attacks in seven days, including the audacious daylong siege of GHQ, and 114 killed, including a Brigadier and a Colonel. What is the message of the terrorists to the army’s leadership?

Is there a link between these two developments that explains what is going on?

A debate is raging in Washington DC. The US national security establishment led by the Pentagon in DC and General Stanley McChrystal in Kabul wants a 40,000-troop surge in Afghanistan. But the liberals in the Obama administration, media and think tanks want to bring the boys home and let Afghanistan boil in its own sordid juices. There is now a third option on the table from Joe Biden, the US vice-president. He wants the status quo on troop levels to be maintained. But he also wants US war-strategy to focus on the Al-Qaeda-Taliban network in Waziristan and Balochistan rather than in Afghanistan. In other words, he is advising a defensive and holding posture in Afghanistan and an offensive and forward position in Pakistan. Hence the recent debate about the pros and cons of targeting Mulla Umar’s “Quetta Shura” in Balochistan. This is also another way of pressuring the Pakistan army to go into Waziristan all guns blazing, stop protecting the Quetta Shura and finish the job itself.

Here’s the rub. The Pakistan army doesn’t like General McChrystal’s idea of an American troop surge or Mr Biden’s notion of an aggressive posture inside Pakistan’s tribal areas. Emotional issues of “occupation” and “sovereignty” aside, both options would amount to the same thing for GHQ: if successful, they would strengthen the current Washington-Kabul-New Delhi axis now calling the shots in Afghanistan and deprive Pakistan’s military of political leverage based on select pro-Pakistan and anti-India Taliban or Pakhtun “assets” in any future political dispensation in its backyard. The Pakistan military is also uneasy at the prospect of launching full–scale operations in Waziristan without first having fully mopped up Swat and motivated its soldiers for the tougher task ahead. The onset of winter and the regrouping of the Pakistan Taliban under Baitullah Mehsud’s successor Hakeemullah make the task even more daunting.

Obviously, the Al-Qaeda-Taliban network doesn’t like these options either. So the Afghan Taliban launched a well-planned and ferocious attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul and the Pakistani Taliban a desperate and audacious one on GHQ in Rawalpindi last week. This is meant to signal that, far from digging in to withstand the proposed US-Pakistan offensive in Waziristan, the Al-Qaeda-Taliban network is determined to carry the battle to the heartland of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Meanwhile, India and Pakistan are pointing to an ISI hand in the attack on India’s Kabul embassy and RAW’s behind the attack on GHQ respectively. Therefore the two America-sponsored options can be scuttled by a terrorist attack inside India that unleashes the demons of Mumbai and brings the two countries to the brink of war, diverting and diminishing attention from America’s “war against terror” and leading to political convulsion and possibly regime change in Pakistan.

The Pakistani military leadership cannot concede the proposed American strategy to confront the Al-Qaeda-Taliban network because it will risk losing its long-term “assets” for political adjustment in Afghanistan. It also cannot balk over a bold new operation in Waziristan alongside the Americans because that will lead to a blow to its wounded pride over the attack on GHQ. The media that backed it to the hilt over the red herring of the Kerry-Lugar Bill to deflect American pressure to up the ante against the Afghan Taliban in Waziristan is now demanding a similar “honour-saving” exercise from the army against the Pakistan Taliban. The problem, of course, is that, while we may talk of different categories and targets of Taliban, we are in fact dealing with a dangerous nexus between Al-Qaeda, Afghan Taliban, Pakistani Taliban and Pakistan Jihadi and sectarian parties and groups that has become one network aiming to seize Kabul and then Islamabad.

Clearly and realistically speaking, the powerful Pakistani military and national security establishment must be part of any regional solution. It must be accorded a greater role in America’s roadmap for determining Afghanistan’s future as a peaceful and stable state that is friendly and not hostile to Pakistan. If that doesn’t happen, the odds are that the Pakistani military will strike back. The Kerry-Lugar bill is the first casualty. If renewed tension with India and regime change in Pakistan follow, there will be no winners and losers in the region.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Oct 2009 04:52

Any new outpourings of grief by Jahil zaman hamid or his partners in grime - shrileen etc ?
Any videos?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Oct 2009 05:10

Typical J. Sethi bile along the lines of "Give us everything even though we are jihadis, else we will become bigger jihadis and commit soosai. We might be dead by then, but we will also stain your carpet". ABV would have said "Aar paar ki ladai" to shut him up.

The most interesting part of the latest soosai celebrations is the involvement of wimmens. SSridhar-saar can possibly analyze it better. If true it means

1. Kendostyx sistahs from lal masjid are involved in some way.
2. These are punjabi sistahs. The talibs in the tribal areas and NWFP wont allow their wimmens to do such activities.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Oct 2009 06:45

archan wrote:
Singha wrote:on TV feed some of the police cadets were wailing and sobbing , holding on to each other.
I wish someone has a recording and puts it up on youtube. Should be great footage!

Sadly - I did not see any of this in 2 hours of intermittent TV scanning. I did get some less dramatic footage recorded though.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 16 Oct 2009 07:06

kmkraoind wrote:Why pakis are celebrating Diwali 3 days earlier, does their papas give them huge pocket money or they are firing their excess stocks?

Remember, the talibunnies also celebrated IED mubarak a day earlier than in Pakiland, ==onlee

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Oct 2009 08:05

Rangudu wrote:We can be 99.99% sure that a MAJOR, MAJOR pigLeT attack is imminent.

Even an year ago this would have looked certainty and it may well be even today but the dynamic has changed a little (if not major). Unlike past years where after every attack suggestions were made that India will respond to these terror attacks at a time and place of its choosing, one element of response now is unambiguous: the time. PC is on record saying that there will be swift action if there is any attack in/on India. However, place and type of response still remain unclear for good reason.

So, whosoever the guy giving a green flag for attack on India, he can safely assume that he will be toast very very soon after giving that green signal. The action will/has to be swift, definitive, and disproportionate.

Hope this strategy is/was at play after the recent attack on Indian interests in Afghanistan and right people will be convinced that we mean what we say.

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Oct 2009 08:14

X Posted.

Canada frets about the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s duplicitous conduct on terrorism particularly the Islamic Republic’s inaction against the Quetta Shura:

October 15, 2009

The Taliban faction Pakistan won't target concerns Canada most

By Campbell Clark
From Friday's Globe and Mail

While Ottawa views recent military offensives as a major advance, it continues to push for Islamabad to take action in Balochistan

Pakistan is taking the fight to the Taliban, but not the Taliban that matters most to Canada.

........................... there is still concern that as Pakistan moves to battle those Taliban elements that threaten targets inside the country - it regained control of Swat in the spring and now is reportedly planning an offensive in Waziristan - its efforts might distract from pressure to deal with the "big brother" Taliban around Quetta in Balochistan.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay, visiting Pakistan in May after the battles in Swat, concluded that Pakistan had finally steeled itself for the fight against the Taliban. But inside the Canadian government, some harbour suspicions that Pakistan's army is willing to fight elements of the Taliban in the northwest, but will leave the Taliban of Mullah Omar in Balochistan unmolested, and free to campaign in Afghanistan. ............................

In May, Mr. Mackay enthusiastically welcomed a change in Pakistan's approach to the Taliban, even musing that a Canadian ban on arms sales to Pakistan might be lifted, stating: "Clearly, disengagement hasn't worked." At the political level, the government still views Pakistan's recent military offensives as a major advance, while they continue to push for Islamabad to also take action in Balochistan.

But many of those inside the Canadian government who deal with Pakistan and Afghanistan issues still harbour suspicions that Pakistan's army, the country's dominant institution, is allowing the Taliban safe haven in Balochistan, even while it fights them elsewhere.

They believe that Pakistan's army and intelligence service, far more concerned with countering India, long aided the Taliban, trying to channel them into Afghanistan to counter Indian influence there. And some suspect that the Pakistani army, seeing Hamid Karzai's Afghan government as closely tied to India, still hopes to use the Taliban as a proxy in a struggle to limit India's power: The army will fight Taliban in the northwest, but leave those in Balochistan free to mount operations in Afghanistan. ..............................

Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae said concerns that Pakistan's army has aided the Taliban, and might still be aiding those Taliban whose target is Afghanistan - in the belief it serves their strategic contest with India - must be taken seriously. ...............................

Globe And Mail

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Oct 2009 08:22

[quote="shiv"][quote="archan"][quote="Singha"]on TV feed some of the police cadets were wailing and sobbing , holding on to each other.

I wish someone has a recording and puts it up on youtube. Should be great footage]

Sadly - I did not see any of this in 2 hours of intermittent TV scanning. I did get some less dramatic footage recorded thoughquote]

Here is is one with public display of "cromm a puss" ( hugs and kisses)
by TFTArians.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... etail12-12

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 16 Oct 2009 08:38

Pak army's media blitz against its civilian govt is in full swing. Is it itching for another takeover?

Enjoy the porky news from across the border!
==============================================================

INFORMATION PRESS - News Views Media - www.InformPress.com - USA

Why U.S. Embassy Imported illegal Arms and Where are Those Weapons?

Did the American Embassy in Islamabad provide weapons to mercenary
terrorists to attack the Pakistan Army GHQ; ISI, FIA, Police offices;
and many other Pakistani military/civilian victims in Pakistan?
http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=818

"The U.S. [Embassy] spokesperson [Richard Snelsire] was also asked to
comment on the allegations by some here [in Pakistan] that the U.S.
Embassy [in Islamabad] had been involved in providing arms and
ammunition to terrorist groups targeting Pakistani security agencies
and the [Pakistani] people here."
http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=816

U.S. Puppet Traitor Asif Ali Zardari harmed Pakistan Army, ISI and
nuclear defense program; reduced nuclear defense budget; increased
terrorist attacks in the country through PPP-ANP-MQM-JUIF Government
Terrorism; and imported foreign terrorist mercenaries to attack,
sabotage, or destroy Pakistan's nuclear defense weapons, military
projects and nuclear facilities.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=203110

U.S. Puppet Traitor Abdur Rehman Malik Kicked Out of the Pakistan
Army's General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi, Pakistan.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... iendlyPage

U.S. Embassy Looking into Disappearance of Weapons: Spokesman

By ANSAR ABBASI

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, 15 October 2009 (TNI) - The U.S. embassy has been
found involved in importing sophisticated weapons to Pakistan without
the permission and knowledge of the authorities here.

The [Pakistan] Foreign Office and the Commerce Ministry denied having
authorised the U.S. or any other foreign mission to import huge
quantity of weapons. However, the fact remains that the U.S. Embassy
in Islamabad has brought to Pakistan at least two consignments of
modern weapons during this year [2009].

The [Pakistan] Foreign Office, which is the main coordinating federal
agency in any such deal of foreign missions, and the Commerce
Ministry, which issues No Objection Certificates (NOC) for such
imports, have no clue as how did and from where the U.S. Embassy get
the weapons in these two cases uncovered by The News [International
(TNI)].

In one case, the U.S. Embassy imported 30 PKM Machineguns and 25
Barrel Grenade Launchers in a shipment coming from Sofia, Bulgaria.
The [American] Embassy has not offered any explanation where did these
weapons go. The [U.S.] Embassy spokesman said that he did not have any
information about this.

In the second case, the U.S. Embassy has admitted importing automatic
weapons for Inter-Risk, the banned local security agency, having
security contracts with DynCorp [International] and the U.S. Embassy
in Islamabad. However, there was no explanation as if the arms were
imported or smuggled from Afghanistan.

However, the most intriguing part of this case is that the Deputy
Commissioner Office Islamabad did not confirm the provision of even a
single weapon by the U.S. Embassy to Inter-Risk. Instead, all the
weapons registered in the licences issued to Inter-Risk were gifted by
a tribal chief of Bannu. It raised the fundamental question about the
whereabouts of the weapons that the U.S. admitted to have gotten for
Inter-Risk.

Authorities in Pakistan have now woken up to realise what [U.S. puppet
traitor and corrupt, criminal, fugitive/outlaw] General [(R) Pervez]
Musharraf did to this country and how much liberty he had given to
U.S. diplomats and officials at the cost of national security.

Background interaction with officials of Foreign, Defence, Interior
and Commerce ministries reveals that the [PPP-ANP-MQM-JUIF] Government
of Pakistan is absolutely clueless about the quantity of weapons
brought to Pakistan by the U.S. Embassy. There is also no information
with the [PPP-ANP-MQM-JUIF] Government that where did these arms go.

Repeated incidents of arms display in public by U.S. diplomats and the
red-handed nabbing of Dutch diplomats with weapons and bombs [in
Pakistan] have compelled the [Pakistan] Foreign Office to issue a
letter to all foreign missions, requesting them to declare the details
of all weapons in their possession and get authority letters for the
arms they want for security.

Although the letter is issued to all foreign missions and embassies,
what is in the mind of the authorities here is the U.S. Embassy.

In the meantime, all U.S. officials and diplomats are being made from
today (15 October 2009) to go through normal airport checks at the
Islamabad airport as the [PPP-ANP-MQM-JUIF] Government has withdrawn
the extraordinary concessions offered to them after 9/11 by [U.S.
mercenary traitor] Pervez Musharraf. Under the concessions, the U.S.
officials and their vehicles enjoyed completely unchecked arrivals and
departures.

[Pakistan] Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit and Secretary Commerce
Suleman Ghani, when approached by The News, denied to have given any
permission to any embassy to import weapons in bulk. Both were of the
view that there were cases of individual requests for import of
hunting guns, etc., but there was no permission given for major import
of weapons to any embassy.

Ghani said that he had checked the past two years record of the
[Commerce] Ministry and he did not find any case of the issuance of
NOC for large quantity of import of arms by any embassy. The Interior
Ministry spokesman, who was asked by this scribe for details on the
subject, simply vanished and never came up with the details.

While the [Pakistan] Foreign Office and the Commerce Ministry are in
complete dark, a letter dated March 26, 2009, and signed by Doyle R.
Babe, Lt. Colonel of the U.S. Embassy [Islamabad], talks of the
shipment/transportation of 30 PKM Machineguns and 25 GP-30 40mm under
Barrel Grenade Launchers from Sofia, Bulgaria to Islamabad, Pakistan.

The [U.S. Embassy] letter clearly said that the final destination of
the consignment is Islamabad. Although the [Pakistan] Foreign Office
spokesman said he was not aware of this shipment, a letter dated
September 7, 2009, addressed to the Deputy Collector Customs,
Islamabad airport, by one [Pakistani] Colonel (retd.) Shahid Latif
informs the Customs authorities that the consignment has arrived and
the consignee is the U.S. Embassy. It also talked of Customs exemption
certificate to have been issued by the [Pakistan] Foreign Ministry
[now headed by PPP corrupt traitor Shah Mahmood Qureshi].

According to a source, [Traitor] Musharraf had given so much liberty
to the Americans after 9/11 that different [Pakistan] Government
departments and agencies started directly dealing with the Americans.
As a result, nobody knew what the other was doing. This situation, it
is said, led to the Government's ignorance about what the U.S. Embassy
was doing.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Richard Snelsire [Press Attache and Country
Information Officer], when approached, initially said that he did not
know anything about this case. When requested to check, he promised to
call back. After a while, when The News contacted him again, he said
the [American] Embassy is looking into this case.

About the mystery relating to the Inter-Risk weapons, Rick [Snelsire]
also promised to check the facts from the officials concerned in the
[U.S.] Embassy. He was also asked to share with The News the details
about the weapons imported by the U.S. Embassy during the recent years
and as to where do such weapons go.

In case of Inter-Risk, the U.S. Embassy spokesman was told that the
Islamabad Deputy Commissioner office record clearly show that the
prohibited bore weapons registered against the PB licences, issued to
Inter-Risk under U.S. Embassy's influence, were gifted to Inter-Risk
not by the U.S. Embassy but by one Malik Khan Zada Wazir, who is chief
of Wazir Sain Khel tribe of Daryoba Agency in FR Bannu. The arms
gifted by Wazir to Inter-Risk were 50 Bore 5.56 weapons and with each
weapon, 1,000 rounds [bullets] and six magazines were given. These
apparently gifted weapons are American-made and sources here allege
that the same weapons have been smuggled by the U.S. Embassy from
Afghanistan and given to Inter-Risk through Malik Khan Zada Wazir.

The facts as reflected on the official record challenge the U.S.
Embassy's claim that it had brought arms for Inter-Risk, and raises
the question about the real destination of the arms claimed to have
gotten in the name of Inter-Risk if it has nothing to do with the
gifted weapons of Malik Wazir.

The U.S. [Embassy] spokesperson [Richard Snelsire] was also asked to
comment on the allegations by some here [in Pakistan] that the U.S.
Embassy [in Islamabad] had been involved in providing arms and
ammunition to terrorist groups targeting Pakistani security agencies
and the [Pakistani] people here. Rick [Snelsire] expressed his
surprise over this question and asked this correspondent to go and
visit Bara, Peshawar, where one can find all sorts of U.S. weapons.

INTERNET-WEB LINKS:

(1) Mystery of U.S. Embassy Weapons in Pakistan

- http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=201504
- http://www.daily.pk/black-water-mystery ... pons-11754
- http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=199436
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=818
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=816
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=820
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=814
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=812
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=811
- http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=815
- http://www.thenews.com.pk/print3.asp?id=25019

(2) No More Unchecked Access to U.S. Officials Coming in and Going Out
of Pakistan

- http://www.daily.pk/no-more-unchecked-a ... ials-12194
- http://www.thenews.com.pk/print3.asp?id=25000
- http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=202265

(3) "Obama's War" - A Glimpse of U.S. Debacle in Afghanistan

- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/oct20 ... -o15.shtml
- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/oct20 ... -o14.shtml
- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/oct20 ... -o15.shtml

(4) Uproar Amid Reports of Husain Haqqani's Threat

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/10/14/upro ... reat/print

(5) India-USA Terrorism in Pakistan?

- http://nasir-khan.blogspot.com/2008/10/ ... istan.html
- http://print-humanbeingsfirst.blogspot. ... istan.html

- The Report Press - www.ReportPress.net - Thursday, 15 October 2009
- Chief Editor - Journalist SYED ADEEB - www.SyedAdeeb.net
INFORMATION PRESS - News Views Media - www.InformPress.com - USA

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 16 Oct 2009 08:53

Ouch!
Karma surely hurts when it comes to redemption time

. Remember the weapons handed over to the IC 814 Hijackers via the diplomatic bag?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Oct 2009 08:56

gandharva wrote:
As kabir said, "Bhay bin hoy na preet"
Without causing any diversion, it was Tulsidas. Above was said by Sri Ram after sitting on fast for three days to placate Ocean god to give way to his army and deciding it is better to use force rather than plead.

Not to divert either -
The Ocean God then pleaded to Sri Ram that he could not change his fundamental nature of being deep and uncrossable (he could only commit to not washing away a causeway that Sri Ram could build).

It is the same with the Pakistani establishment - even with bhay, they cannot and will not change their fundamental nature. They may only be able to suppress it.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Oct 2009 09:09

The nature of the scorpian is to sting and of the snake to bite . Both are taken care of by crushing them under the boot. Pakis are the creatures of same vein. Their resemblence to human shape is purely coincidental , cleary a natural mistake in evolutionary process. They can and wont and will not supress any vibe to hurt any thing Indian. They onlee solution is either fast elimination or castration to accomplish same objective bit slowly. I think more than Nuke , Indian scientist should develop castration bomb to be used on Pukes.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Oct 2009 09:25

Has lots of interesting tidbits, basically pakistan ki bohot buri tarah se phat gayee

Pakistan 'not prepared for attacks'

Speaking in the eastern city of Lahore, scene of three apparently coordinated attacks on Thursday, Rehman Malik said Pakistan was simply "not prepared for these kinds of attacks."
"The kind of terrorism we are facing; our forces neither had capacity nor training to counter this," he said outside the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) compound in Lahore, scene of one of the attacks.

"The president [Asif Ali Zardari] and prime minister [Syed Yousaf Raza Gillani] do not seem to be in sync with the Pakistani military which looks embattled at the moment. And which is looking up to the political leadership to lead and consult them.
Ameen Jan, an analyst on Pakistan, told Al Jazeera: "The Taliban and insurgents are trying to send a very clear message: 'we're still here, we're still going to create hell for you and we are not going away anywhere soon.'"
"This is an insurgency that is here to stay for some time and it will take all of the effort of the Pakistan military and the rest of the state apparatus, and will require the support of the Pakistani people to battle it for the months and years to come."

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Oct 2009 09:31

PBS Frontline program on the afpak war.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/view/

This is a 55 min video. The US knows very well what the situation is. The only way to prevent blowback is to get the pakistanis to do the dirty work. They also hope that going it slow and steady with pakistan bearing the brunt of the reprisal, will cure pakistan of its love of terrorism as a state policy.

Someone clearly says " The taliban is the proxy of the government of pakistan, pakistan is an ally of the US, and the US is fighting the taliban. IOW the us is fighting its own ally"

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Oct 2009 09:41

The ideology and establishment of Pakistan are a cancer upon the world. However, in this case, it is the tumor that is threatening the world with radiation therapy.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Oct 2009 09:43

Adding on to my earlier post in response to Rangadu's post:

‘India still vulnerable to terror attacks’

Comments from PC:

‘My assessment of the vulnerability is that it has remained the same since 26/11,’ he said in an interview. ‘It has not diminished nor has it enhanced.’

'Our capacity to deal with it (the terrorist threat) has increased significantly. Even if they (the Pakistan government) wish to take action against the masterminds of 26/11, they perhaps do not have the capacity to take action,’ Chidambaram said.

‘That incapacity could encourage some wild elements, some rogue elements, to become adventurous.’

'I’m sure they’re planning (more attacks), but to what extent there is overt state support I cannot say ... my guess is that state support is not there to the degree it was there in 2008. I think we’ve been able to prevent a large number of potential attacks, and maybe been lucky too.’—Reuters

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Oct 2009 09:49

PC uvacha

1.

Even if they (the Pakistan government) wish to take action against the masterminds of 26/11, they perhaps do not have the capacity to take action,’

Is he our Home Minister ?

2.

‘That incapacity could encourage some wild elements, some rogue elements, to become adventurous.’

'I’m sure they’re planning (more attacks), but to what extent there is overt state support I cannot say ... my guess is that state support is not there to the degree it was there in 2008. I think we’ve been able to prevent a large number of potential attacks, and maybe been lucky too.’

If '1' is TRUE then '2' deserves to be

. Btw am I missing any chanakyan angle here ?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Oct 2009 09:56

Systemic risk is addressed to an extent; Other risk is still there or may have increased and the net is no change. He is just recognizing the two sources of risks and the change in dynamic.

Hope he is right.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Oct 2009 10:07

You did not get my point ;the point '1' if true is something which GOI should not admit in public for if GOI admits the fact that GOP is incapable and not in control of the situation in TSP ,then we let the GOP and entire PA_ISI_L.e.T nexus off the hook as far as International pressure is concerned.

And secondly if PC ji indeed believes it then whats the point over wasting time and money over S.e.S type declarations, afterall GOP is incapable and not in control , hain ?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Oct 2009 10:14

oh ok. agree with you 1 and the lack of chakian thinking behind these statements. He may be just talking about the observations he may have made.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 16 Oct 2009 10:22

Rangudu wrote:We can be 99.99% sure that a MAJOR, MAJOR pigLeT attack is imminent.

Najam Sethi normally only indirectly threatens terror attacks.

In this week's TFT, he says this explicitly:

What is the Swift punishment that India can deliver? Attack on
- refineries
- power plants
- dams
- ports

I know this will be declaration of war, but I think any attack should be responded in that fashion because there will be a definite attack on us

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2009 10:31

What is the Swift punishment that India can deliver? Attack on
- refineries
- power plants
- dams
- ports

Knowing our GoI, the only "swift and decisive" response will be :

rocket speed typing and mailing of 4-5 dossiers within 24 hours. (and usual "no more tolerance" dialogues for 1-2 weeks till everyone forgets about it).

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Oct 2009 10:40

sum wrote:Knowing our GoI, the only "swift and decisive" response will be :
rocket speed typing and mailing of 4-5 dossiers within 24 hours. (and usual "no more tolerance" dialogues for 1-2 weeks till everyone forgets about it).

Though you have to agree that we are standing back and whistling a tune when the pakis are imploding. It is not clear whether this is good fortune or if it is chanakyan premeditation. An attack post Mumbai would have united them and pushed the day of reckoning back. We have made clear that we have plumbed the depths of our patience, want biss for "south asian peoples", 99% of whom live under $0.10 a year.

Why cant we all get along ?

(beer and popcorn while baki fauj and taliban declare jeehard on each other)

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 16 Oct 2009 10:46

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/10/0 ... a-history/

Lowest point of my overseas experience was when, to my surprise, Austrian embassy in Warsaw asked me to collect my Visa towards the end of the day. Problem was that the clerc thought that I am an Indian and had to phone my office to appologise and inform that it will take at least six weeks.

This very well written article highlights failure of our foreign relations regime. I agree that collectively as a nation we are responsible, but at the end of the day, this situation reflects on the failure of how badly successive governments in Pakistan have managed relations with foreign governments. When our leaders travel around with world with a begging bowl for aid you can’t expect them to be treated as equals - Beggars can’t be choosers.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2009 11:01

Though you have to agree that we are standing back and whistling a tune when the pakis are imploding. It is not clear whether this is good fortune or if it is chanakyan premeditation. An attack post Mumbai would have united them and pushed the day of reckoning back.

Yes, that is true..

Not sure if it was pure luck or earth-e-shatter Chankianess by the SDRE...

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 16 Oct 2009 11:04

Vivek_A wrote:http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/10/0 ... a-history/

Lowest point of my overseas experience was when, to my surprise, Austrian embassy in Warsaw asked me to collect my Visa towards the end of the day. Problem was that the clerc thought that I am an Indian and had to phone my office to appologise and inform that it will take at least six weeks.

This very well written article highlights failure of our foreign relations regime. I agree that collectively as a nation we are responsible, but at the end of the day, this situation reflects on the failure of how badly successive governments in Pakistan have managed relations with foreign governments. When our leaders travel around with world with a begging bowl for aid you can’t expect them to be treated as equals - Beggars can’t be choosers.

Please quote the part of article you used. I was completely confused initially as to how the hell you became a Paki lol.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Oct 2009 11:09

There are two ways to respond.
1. The first is to rush pell mell into an overt military response of the type the US did after 911
2. To sit back on your arse, send dossier pe dossier, make a public spectacle of the pukes, and humiliate them. These days the neighbourhood diwali cracker has only to be attributed to pakistan's ISI and the whole world believes it.

The ideal response I think lies somewhere in between. Respond both militarily and diplomatically. IOW naani yaad kara do, by bashing up the enemy both legally and extralegally. An unfair war means an unfair response.

It means DPD (Dossier pe dossier) + actions within pakistan to bring that nation to its heels, while at the same time maintaining a holier than thou 'quaking like a clumsy duck' demeanor.

JMT

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Oct 2009 11:19

arun wrote:Officials of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are losing no time in blaming India for the Lahore strikes :

Indian secret agencies behind Lahore blast

Updated at: 1555 PST, Thursday, October 15, 2009

LAHORE: Lahore Commissioner Khusro Pervaiz Thursday said India’s intelligence agencies are involved in the attacks carried out today in Lahore. ……………………

The News

Bill Roggio is dismissive of Pakistani allegations of Indian involvement in yesterdays Lahore strikes against the Police:

Let's blame India

By Bill Roggio. October 16, 2009 12:27 AM

Before the smoke even cleared from the terror assaults on three police centers in Lahore, a senior police official has pointed the finger at India's intelligence agency for masterminding the attacks. From The Times of India:

Shortly after terrorists struck at the Federal Investigation Agency office and two police training centres, Lahore Commissioner Khusro Pervez blamed the Research and Analysis Wing, India's external intelligence agency, for terrorist activities across Pakistan. …………………..

I've said this before but it bears repeating.

If the Pakistani government and military have extensive evidence of their arch-rival backing the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, why did they cut a deal with Sufi Mohammed, Mullah Fazlullah's father-in-law and a known front man for the Taliban, this spring?

Why were Pakistani officials in negotiations with Baitullah Mehsud last summer in an attempt to end hostilities?

Why would a senior Pakistani general describe Baitullah as "a patriot" when tensions between Indian and Pakistan flared late last year after the Mumbai assault? If Baitullah was an agent of RAW, wouldn't that make him a traitor? And what does that say about the Corps Commander who feted Baitullah?

Long War Journal

amit · Post by **amit** » 16 Oct 2009 11:30

Gagan wrote:It means DPD (Dossier pe dossier) + actions within pakistan to bring that nation to its heels, while at the same time maintaining a holier than thou 'quaking like a clumsy duck' demeanor.

Doesn't this sound like the plot of a dhisum, dhisum movie which is currently running in the neigbourhood?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Oct 2009 11:41

arun wrote:Bill Roggio is dismissive of Pakistani allegations of Indian involvement in yesterdays Lahore strikes against the Police:

This says a lot about pakistani piskology which 99.99% of Rakshaks know, but is worth repeating. The only way of reaching consensus in Pakistan is to frame any debate in religious or anti-India hate terms. There seems to be no scope for reaching consensus in through a clear articulation of national goals, a statement of cost and benefits followed by rational decision making and analysis (even though the "establishment" and the guvrmand may use rational analysis to make decisions, it is invariably sold to the public in rhetoric couched in religious or anti-India hate terms).

The examples are many. Mushy's army dropped leaflets claiming that the taliban were jews and hindus (there was a website with pictures of the leaflets). Baitullah was called a zionist and Balochis are "Indian agents" and the fighters in Swat are "Hindus" (because of their uncircumcised privates)

This degeneration of public discourse into simplistic hate filled rhetoric combined with a liberal dose of conspiracy theory, will ultimately prove to be the undoing of Pakistani society and push it over the edge. Under such an environment, the person who can garner the maximum support and appeal is the person who can spout the most hate filled argument or hint the most sinister conspiracy -- thus you see that characters like Zaid Hamid are hailed as a great patriot and "Strategic thinker".

What does this mean for India ?

1. Any expectation of success through rational discourse, should be taken with a grain of salt. International negotiations typically do one of two things. (1) Identify each side's positions, whittle at them till a compromise is reached. This is impossible with Pakistan because any compromise cannot be sold with rational argument (can be sold as Taqqiya--hinted by people like Ejaz Haider--but that is another issue). (2) Build and apply "leverage". Our negotiators should search for and apply "leverage". Only compulsion will lead to compromise from the Pakistani side, rewards or magnanimity will not. (This is unconsciously understood by characters like J. Sethi, who continue to harp on the paki ability to cause terrorist attacks as their "leverage" on India)

2. The civil society will continue to be paralyzed due to their failure to articulate and argue their decisions, and the failure to build consensus among the electorate through rational arguments. The opposition party or a non-cooperative "establishment" can easily put them on the defensive by resorting to rhetoric. The "establishment" will continue to be strong. The "establishment" is strong, not because they have the guns, but because they have the clearest articulation of their aims --the strong focus on self survival and self aggrandizement -- with none of the burden of explaining decisions down the chain of command for achieving those objectives. Thus they advance when appropriate (Mushy taking over) or retreat when appropriate (Kiyani staying in the background) and use the weakness of the civilians (inability to be "popular" or in more precise terms, inability to set and argue strategies for reaching national objectives) to gain the upper hand. This should be taken into account when Indian negotiators look for their "leverage". A leverage against the establishment simply does not exist with us today.

3. What are these leverages on the various power players in Pakistan and how do we go about acquiring them (and exercising them if necessary) is something to be looked at.

What does this mean for Pakistan ?

Pakistan has to quickly make some stark choices, which have a bearing on the survival of the state itself as a viable country.

This simply cannot be done by casting every decision as a response to an external conspiracy or calling every enemy of the state as a Hindu agent or a Zionist collaborator.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Oct 2009 12:00

The recent Sino-Paki confabulations indicate that India is to shortly become the victim of yet another major terrorist attack or even worse, a coordinated Sino-Paki military adventure,which we must turn into a major misadventure of theirs.Pak desperately needs some immediate relief from the internecine war going on within the country.The military is being armtwisted by the US to fight its own children,the Taliban,whom the Paki military are using to regain control over Afghanistan,thus giving Pak its strategic depth.Pak is finding it almost impossible to destroy its own creation without giving up some of its sacred cows,adventurism against India and territorial ambitions in Afghanistan as the price for its survival as a nation.

Under the skills of Gen.bandicoot-the Mushy-rat,it was able to successfully juggle these opposite and conflicting policies and use diplomatic obfuscation to cloud US sensibilities.The bandicoot's asinine removal of the CJ saw his downfall with the totally unexpected revolution of the lawyers with their backing of popular support.He and the Paki military struck back with the assasination of Benazir,only to be pegged back yet again with Zardari's election as President.However,Zardari's transvestite powers have made him the object of ridicule and the real power still vests with the military and the "vulture" Gen,Kill-any. This patent bird is waiting and waiting for the opportune moment to strike.Any excuse to withdraw from th warrring on the Af-Pak border and redeployment of Paki troops to face India is his ambitious plan.For this he needs strong Chinese military and diplomatic support,which partly explains why China has become so arrogant and offensive towards India.The stakes are very high.Control of Afghanistan is the prize that the US (wanting a Caucasus pipeline through Afghan territory) and the Sino-Pak-Saudi axis is fighting for,with India,Russia and the northern states,who want an independent sovereign Afghan state to emerge, all worried and watching from the sidelines.Just as emperor Nero did with the plebs of Rome,diverying their attention with the Circus and the games,so is the Sino-Pak axis trying to divert attention from Afghanistan by indulging in adventurism against India.The next few months are going to be crucial for the region.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 16 Oct 2009 12:05

Vivek_A wrote:http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/10/0 ... a-history/
Lowest point of my overseas experience was when, to my surprise, Austrian embassy in Warsaw asked me to collect my Visa towards the end of the day. Problem was that the clerc thought that I am an Indian and had to phone my office to appologise and inform that it will take at least six weeks.

Makes one wonder the reason Pakis want to travel to other countries. Is it because they love traveling or they love the 'bulb-uddin' treatment ...

Paki during an immigration check

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Oct 2009 12:24

^^^
"Enlightened" moderation of musharraf

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -UN-speech

Mark Siegal, the American lobbyist for Pakistan appointed by President Asif Ali Zardari’s government, has become so influential that he was even assigned to write the speech the President delivered to the General Assembly last month, according to reliable sources in the presidency. And he charged the government of Pakistan $25,000 for the four-page speech

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Oct 2009 12:44

GEO TV:Explosion hit Peshawar CIA police station, causalities feared

PESHAWAR: Several people feared dead as an explosion hit CIA police station in cantonment area of Peshawar.

According to initial reports, explosives were planted in a car parked with a wall of the station which was demolished in the blast. Several people including inmates wounded in the incident whereas causalities also feared.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 16 Oct 2009 12:54

pakis are celebrating diwali like never before. I just hope they dont run out of fireworks any time soon.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Oct 2009 13:23

And, it was a woman suicide bomber as death toll mounts to 13

. . . a personnel present at the gate told that a person riding on a motorbike with a woman reached at the gate of the police station. When security official tried to stop the burqa clad woman, she detonated herself.