Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Amber G. » 25 Oct 2009 23:03

^^^The list I gave was FYI.
Republican senators in US are are not 49 but only 40. "Tea party" from what I have seen is, to put it mildly, has no effect on generally us public (except, may be for a very small minority of admirers of Rush or Hannity types)
In any case democrats vs republican in USA may be OT here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Amber G. » 25 Oct 2009 23:40

AFP Caption:
Pakistan captures Taliban chief ' s (hometown)
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Amber G. » 25 Oct 2009 23:41

Another picture with same classification:
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Amber G. » 25 Oct 2009 23:51

Meanwhile breaking news from the victim onlee...
Pakistan not to allow its soil for terrorists activities:
Pakistan not to allow its soil for terrorists activities: Malik
ISLAMABAD, Oct 25 (APP): Minister for Interior Rehman A Malik on Sunday said that Pakistan is a victim of terrorism and it would not allow anyone to use its soil for terrorist activities. He said this after seeing off Iranian Interior Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar at Chaklala Air Base, who left for his home after the conclusion of two day visit to Pakistan. Rehman Malik said that Pakistan enjoys brotherly relationship with Iran and keeps the country and its people with high esteem.

The Iranian counterpart thanked Rehman Malik for their hospitality and expressed the hope the relationship between both the countries would further be strengthened and bolstered.
During his visit, the Iranian minister met with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani and Rehman Malik.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Rangudu » 26 Oct 2009 01:43

From BBC monitoring of Persian sites - no links

Iran insists on supprt of Pakistani secret service for Jondollah - interview

23 October 2009

BBC Monitoring Middle East


Text of interview with Asheq Hoseyn, the head of Pashtu Radio of IRIB's external services, entitled "Behind the scene of Rigi's gang", published by Iranian newspaper Jaam-e Jam on 20 October.

The name of Abdol-Malek Rigi and his criminal terrorist group became known after the ruthless violent killing of a number of our countrymen in Tasuki region, along Zahedan-Zabol road in 1384 [2005]. Since then the same criminal group, supported by America, threatens the security of the South Eastern part of the country every now and then by its terrorist operations.

In 1385 [2006], a group of IRGC [Islamic Republic Guard Corps] personnel were martyred by explosion of a bomb by the same terrorist group installed in pathway of their bus.

Explosion of a bomb in Ali-ebn Abitaleb Mosque just before the presidential elections killing more than 20 people, is another terrorist operation of this group.

Ever since the emergence of this terrorist group, there has always been some official and unofficial news about America supporting Abdol-Malek Rigi; his interviews with VOA can approve his connection with certain American authorities.

A day after the terrorist operation in Sistan and Baluchestan, commander Mohammad Ai Ja'fari, chief commander of IRGC said they received news which point to American, British and Pakistani secret services supporting Abdol-Malek Rigi.

In an interview with Jame-Jam, Asheq Hoseyn, the director of Pashtu radio section of the national radio and television explained the reasons for the above supports for this terrorist groups.

What do America and Britain gain from operations of terrorist groups like Taliban and Rigi?

You know that Al-Qaeda and Taliban have been created by secret services of Pakistan, Britain, America, Saudi Arabia and to some extent the UAE. In 1997 when Ms Binazir Buto, the prime minister of Pakistan, was in exile in Britain, she confessed in an interview that they had a role in the formation of Taliban phenomenon. She said: We were not alone in the formation of this phenomenon. In addition she said: We played the role of executives there. America and Britain planned the formation of this organisation and Saudi Arabia paid the expenses. However, America could not recognize Taliban because of its so called human rights claims, but the three other countries, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan did recognize Taliban's regime.

After the fall of Taliban's regime, Saudi Arabia and UAE continued their contacts with Taliban's leaders. Whenever there is a meeting between Taliban's leaders and American and British secret agents, it is held either in Saudi Arabia or UAE or Kuwaite in Pakistan.

Do you think supporting the terrorist group led by Abdol-Malek Rigi is in line with the same policy?

The above countries have reached the conclusion that semi-Taliban groups should be organised in other countries in central Asian region. They organised a terrorist group in Iran under the name of Jondollah, led by Abdol-Malek Rigi. Saudi Arabia provides the expenses, America and Britain devise its policies and Pakistan allows them to have a base in that country. At present the members of this terrorist group are stationed in Baluchestan province of Pakistan and their headquarters is in Karachi. Abdol-Malek Rigi is in contact with the international Mafia network and Pakistan secret service (ISI) supports and protects Rigi's group. By virtue of ISI support, its members easily move between Karachi, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.

Pakistan has always suffered great damages as the result of terrorist operations. How can we justify its supports for terrorist groups?

We have two governments in Pakistan; one is behind the curtain and one in front of it. The latter consists of the president, prime minister and other official Pakistani authorities whom we know; but they have no will of their own.

The main government functions behind the curtain and is in the hand of ISI and the army. They have a whole series of plans in mind. For example, extremist members of ISI with their extremist Vahabi and Salafi ideologies, are planning to form a large emirate-type rule in the region with participation of Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

You referred to the support of certain extremist members of Pakistani secret service for Rigi's terrorist group. Considering the fact that this group carries out its terrorist operations in Iran, what do the above members of Pakistan's army gain from it?

America and Britain pursue their own goal while the Pakistani extremists have another goal. The aim of America and Britain is to create insecurity in the region. Accordingly, we see how they have turned Iraq and Afghanistan into insecure countries and how they are provoking a civil war in Pakistan. In fact, the only secure and stable country of the region is Iran. That's what America and Britain can not bear. They seek to create insecurity inside Iran as well. This was the aim of formation of Jondollah terrorist group.

America and Britain are making Iran insecure in order to put pressure on Iran to yield to the demands of the West in other areas, including Palestine and the nuclear energy.

Pakistani extremist forces seek to make Iran follow their policies. Pakistan is very sensitive in regard to its relations with India and while it sees India as an enemy, it can not bear friendly relations between Iran and India.

Source: Jam-e Jam website, Tehran, in Persian 20 Oct 09

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 26 Oct 2009 04:30

Imperatives of the Waziristan operation ---- Farhat Taj
The relationship between Pakistan and the Waziristan tribes is different from what it was with the British: the tribes now accept the reality that the region is an integral part of Pakistan. In fact, that it has been their constant complaint for the past several decades that they wanted greater integration into the mainstream so as to benefit from increased socio-economic development. I would go as far to suggest that it is only the mostly-Islamabad-based armchair analysts who are questioning the ongoing military operation in Waziristan because, by and large, the people of the region understand that there is a real danger to them and to the country from the Taliban and Al Qaeda. What they also say is that till now the state had not been serious in standing up to the extremists which have gained a solid foothold in the region and in that regard the operation is seen to bring some element of hope.


Some armchair intellectuals and analysts propagate the view that the militants and extremists are a kind of a tribal resistance to the Pakistan army, which they see as now fighting America’s war. Nothing can be farther from the truth. For the record, the Taliban and Al Qaeda have never claimed to represent tribal society or stand up for Pakhtun nationalism. Their aim to further a global ideology which in their view should transcend all geographical borders and ethnicities – and that explains why those inclined towards this kind of worldview have come to Waziristan for training from all over the world.

No wonder one finds, apart from the indigenous Pakhtuns of course, Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Africans, Punjabis and even people from European countries in Waziristan. And this is not because the people of Waziristan love them but because the state of Pakistan had till now surrendered its writ in the area. The militants have waged a war against the two most important pillars of tribal society: the jirga or tribal council and the lashkar, or a tribal volunteer army. Hundreds of tribal elders have been target-killed and tribal society has ceased to function in Waziristan.

Now, moving on to another point raised by Roedad Khan, in his article, which was to compare the Faqir of Ipi with the Taliban leadership based in Waziristan. This is akin to an insult to the Faqir because, unlike the Taliban commanders, he was fighting for the land and for the people of Waziristan – and he was fighting a colonial power. He did not make grand claims in terms of spreading a religious ideology globally and he never killed or targeted any local people. He never banned the tribal jirga – rather, his struggle was endorsed by the jirgas. Also, he never banned music, dance or any other local custom. Furthermore, he and his men never attacked women and children and did not do anything to places of worship.

Resistance to colonial rule is just one aspect of the history of Waziristan. The other aspect is that there was a working relationship with the British masters for much of the time, and that should not be difficult to understand. Society in the region is like any other and so it responds differently to different circumstances. Many sub-tribes of Waziristan entered into smooth working relationship with the British after the they established colonial rule over the area through the office of political agent.

What is somewhat surprising about the occupation of Waziristan by militants and extremists is perhaps the silence of the educated people of the area. The educated from the Wazir, Mehsud, Dawar and Bhittani tribes are all well-integrated into the state structure and hold high-ranking positions both in civil and military bureaucracy of Pakistan, but one hasn’t come across too many of them speaking up for their land. This is remarkably dissimilar to what happened in the case of Swat where the arrival of the Taliban and their eventual control of the valley resulted in a national outpouring of protest and resentment from many Swatis.

To a greater extent, Swat is now free of Taliban control. The educated people of Swat, both in Pakistan and abroad, share a credit for that. Every educated Swati did whatever he or she could to inform the world about the Taliban atrocities in their hometown. I wonder why the educated people of Waziristan have been silent for years. What good is their education for? By keeping silent they are behaving like enemies of Waziristan rather than brave sons and daughters of the land. It is true that the educated families of Waziristan have also suffered due to the target killing in the area. But that does not mean they resign themselves to the adverse circumstances. They must now stand up and make alliances with like minded people all over Pakistan to stop the military from engaging in any more dubious peace deals with the terrorists and make sure that the operation Rah-e-Nijat is taken to its logical end—the complete elimination of the terrorists.

There are Pakistani and foreign terrorists in Waziristan running an Islamist Emirate there. The Pakistanis are mostly Pakhtun and Punjabis. The army must treat them as dangerous criminals. The foreigners are stateless Uzbeks, Arabs, Africans, Afghans, Chechens, Tajiks and even Muslim immigrants from Europe. If deported, they would mostly likely be killed in many of their countries of origin. Waziristan is the only place in the world where they could freely rule. They are not going to surrender their rule easily. For them it is do or die. They will give a very tough fight to the army. But the army must keep fighting them, no matter what, because the alternative is disaster.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 26 Oct 2009 04:34


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 26 Oct 2009 04:40


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Prem » 26 Oct 2009 05:57

99pc people reject KLL but accept KLPD: poll
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90024
RAWALPINDI: The Jamaat-i-Islami (JI), Rawalpindi chapter, has announced the results of “Awami referendum” on Kerry-Lugar Law (KLL), according to which over 99 percent people rejected the Law.

According to results of the referendum, some 503,439 people voted against the Bill in the district.

Addressing a press conference here on Saturday, JI District Amir and Regional Election Commissioner for the referendum, Raja Abdul Waheed announced the results of the referendum organised by Jammat-i-Islami throughout the country.

He said that people from all spheres of life from Khyber to Karachi enthusiastically participated in the referendum as they stood the whole day in long queues outside the polling booths to express their fury against the KL law.

“This proved that people of Pakistan are well aware of matters relating to national interests,” he added.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 26 Oct 2009 05:58

Tackling extremism ---- Maajid Nawaz
Pakistan’s university campuses were the natural choice for me to start. Aided and supported by the local youth development NGO Bargad, I embarked on a four-week, nationwide university tour to address thousands of students on the bankruptcy of Islamist ideology. Along the way I was asked several times, often by students themselves, why I hadn’t chosen to go to madressahs first — after all, it seemed to be what everyone was doing.

My response was always the same: while it is true that the madressah system has supplied a steady stream of jihadists over the years, a little-highlighted fact is that the leading ideologues of Islamist movements have invariably been educated, are elite and socially mobile. After all, Bin Laden is an engineer and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, a doctor.

Many of the pseudo-intellectuals of HT are also highly educated, including the nuclear scientist and computer and telecom engineers who were recently arrested along with other HT activists during a police raid in Islamabad. It came as no surprise to me that nuclear scientists were among those accused of belonging to HT, considering that this is exactly why I was sent to Pakistan as far back as 1999. In the year 2000, I had also personally met Pakistani Army officers in London, who had been training at Sandhurst. HT had recruited them to its cause, and then sent them back to Pakistan.

Back to the future, travelling across Pakistan’s provinces, visiting key campuses along the way, I had the valuable opportunity to engage directly with students on such issues. I told them my life story, my reasons for joining HT, my time in prison and why I eventually left.

In return, I heard from them about how they think and feel about Pakistan’s problems, and their aspirations for the future of their country. We discussed the need to tackle extremism on an ideological level, and the steps Pakistan would have to take towards a more democratic and pluralistic society and government. The reactions I received were mixed, but they spoke volumes for those who populate Pakistan’s universities.

Students from Sindh tended to be hugely receptive to my message, whilst those in Mirpur, Azad Kashmir, from where the majority of British Pakistanis hail, expressed much greater hostility towards the West. In Quetta, the prevailing preoccupation was with ‘Punjabi hegemony’; here I encountered popular revolutionaries with little time for religious extremism but a hardened resolve to secede from Pakistan, in some cases through violence.

Ironically, the most violent opposition to my efforts didn’t come from Pakistani students at all — it came from a British-Pakistani member of HT who decided to punch me one evening in a cafe in Lahore. I later learned that he, like several others, had left the UK to recruit students in Pakistan, and to do this had started teaching at a private university in Lahore.
:rotfl:
It was sad evidence to the fact that British citizens continue to export Islamism to Pakistan, along with playing a crucial role in exporting the ideology to countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Kenya, Mauritius, India, Egypt and Denmark. Only when the governments of Britain and Pakistan wake up to take responsibility for the rot on their doorsteps will we ever be able to reverse these trends.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby a_kumar » 26 Oct 2009 06:27

pgbhat wrote:From Af-Pak to Indo-Pak again ---- Zeenia Satti

The valley’s population, along with Pakistan’s Northern Areas :roll: , has its best chance at enrichment through attracting tourists from affluent societies of the Middle East, Central Asia, Russia and China.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Rony » 26 Oct 2009 07:53

Siege within: Pakistanis look to India for solutions
As terrorists from the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi group attacked the headquarters of the Pakistani army in Rawalpindi a week ago, challenging what remains Pakistan’s most powerful institution, Rehana Hakim, the editor of the Pakistani magazine ‘Newsline’, attending a conference of women journalists in Lahore voiced the collective insecurity of the Pakistanis present: “If the army can be attacked, how safe can any one of us be in our own country?”

Across Lahore — in elite drawing rooms, journalist soirees as well as among small traders and street hawkers in the city’s busy Liberty Market area — a cross-section of Pakistanis confessed to rising uncertainty about the quality of governance, Asif Ali Zardari’s unwillingness to take on the formidable power of the armed forces, dismay over Pakistan’s international characterisation as the “epicentre of jehad” and even, the relationship between militancy and Islam.

There was one thread that united these conversations and it was articulated by Mian Ejaz ul-Hasan, an old-time member of the Pakistan People’s Party: “If India believes it is the ‘chaudhury’ (big brother or hegemon) of the region,” Hasan said, “then as the ‘chaudhury’ it should show take the lead in resolving issues across the sub-continent.”

On top of the agenda, said Hasan, was the need to cooperate on fighting terror. “The terror unleashed against India in Mumbai and other cities is only a manifestation of the terror that Pakistanis face everyday at home,” he said.

Pakistani analysts pointed out that as the Pakistani army launched an assault against the strongholds of the Pakistani Taliban and the al Qaeda in South Waziristan, terror groups in the southern Punjab like the Jaish-e-Mohammed and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi had united with terrorist groups like the Tehreek-i-Taliban in Pakistan’s frontier areas to mount the string of terrorist attacks across Pakistan over the last week.

But in the run-up to the first anniversary of the Mumbai attacks next month, Pakistanis said they would like India to understand that they are as much victims of terrorism.

“The people of Pakistan have so much in common with India. Let us not stop talking to each other because of militancy and militant attacks. How can ordinary Pakistanis stop these attacks against India when we can’t stop it against ourselves,” asked Sarfaraz, a small trader in Lahore’s Liberty Market.

Even Pakistan’s information minister Qamar Zaman Kaira, as he reiterated his government’s position that Delhi had not “given enough evidence” to nail those India accuses to be behind the Mumbai attack, said, “The battle for Pakistan has escalated into a full-scale war. It is important to understand that these terrorists attacks are not episodic..the terror groups are sending the message that they are linked…Both India and Pakistan must fight this war against terrorism together.”

Sarfaraz’s commonly-held view that the “hukumat” (government) was “only interested in keeping the ‘kursi’ (chair)” and would, therefore, never seriously challenge the widespread influence of the Pakistani army, ended with a plea: “If India won’t talk to us, relations won’t improve and traders like us, who live in the hope that open borders will galvanise our businesses, will have to learn that we can only sell to Pakistanis. But the truth is that the rich Pakistanis have already, mostly, left for America and London…” his voice trailed off.

Pakistani analysts pointed out that as bilateral relations improved under Vajpayee’s BJP-led government in around 2004 and the reopening of the Amritsar-Lahore land route showed promise, property prices in Lahore went up 300 per cent.

In the wake of the Mumbai attacks, as the official dialogue shut down, flights to Lahore and Karachi were drastically reduced, journalist visas dried up and New Delhi began to speak to Islamabad via Washington.

Meanwhile, as America shifted its war against terrorism to focus on Pakistan itself and investor confidence deteriorated, Pakistani officials said at least $40 billion had been lost over the last year due to terrorism.

According to Reuters, as the government and the army fought the terrorists in the Swat and Malakand valleys up north, GDP growth in Pakistan slid to 2 per cent in 2008-9.

The Asian Development Bank expected it to rise only to 3.3 per cent by June 2010.The dire straits in Pakistan’s economy is compounded by the fact that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) gave it a $7.6-billion loan last November for two years, increasing it by $3.2 billion in July.

Last week, the Obama administration cleared the Kerry-Lugar Bill which promises $1.5 billion in non-military aid to Pakistan for the next five years.

But instead of welcoming the aid, the army publicly voiced dissent, the chief opposition in Nawaz Sharif’s Muslim League party rejected it for imposing conditions that compromised Pakistan’s “sovereignty” and Zardari rushed his foreign minister to Washington to voice the government’s apprehensions.

So as the economy goes south and militant groups challenge the authority of the army, Ayesha Siddiqa, well-known author of ‘Military Inc: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy,’ points out that the Pakistani state remains unwilling to look inwards at the reasons which bred the terror. Terrorist groups in southern Punjab, says Siddiqa, who were once trained by Pakistan’s intelligence agencies to wage terrorism in Kashmir, have recently developed contacts with the al Qaeda and the Taliban to mount attacks against the Pakistani state.

The state of confusion was clearly seen on the morning after the attacks on the military headquarters in Rawalpindi. On the front pages of Pakistan’s respected ‘Dawn’ newspaper, Zafar Abbas spoke of the need to dismantle the distinction between “good” and “bad” terrorists.

But Pakistan’s interior minister Rehman Malik and Punjab’s provincial law minister Rana Sanaullah pointed the finger at India for not only masterminding the continuing troubles in Balochistan but also having a hand in the blasts in both Peshawar and Rawalpindi.

Meanwhile, a Pakistani army source who spoke on condition of anonymity said: “The Pakistani army will go after the terrorists who challenge the army, but those terrorists who are fighting America or India, well, we will let them be.”.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby archan » 26 Oct 2009 08:45

If India believes it is the ‘chaudhury’ (big brother or hegemon) of the region,” Hasan said, “then as the ‘chaudhury’ it should show take the lead in resolving issues across the sub-continent.
Hasan miyan, don't you think the chaudhury would then like to a) solve the outstanding issue at his leisure or at least at a time of his own choosing and b) would solve it according to his own interest and not yours?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Avinash R » 26 Oct 2009 09:09

Prem wrote:99pc people reject KLL but accept KLPD: poll
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=90024

99pc of iraqis elected saddam, that didn't do any good to him.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Avinash R » 26 Oct 2009 09:21

Apparently miscreants have anti-tank mines and SAM's, this is in addition to the anti-aircraft guns that some tribes have which they used to slaughter each other. Unless someone is clever enough to buy back these weapons, taliban are going to turn islamabad and lahore's landsacpe to match kabul's during their war with the NA. Mortars and artillery will rain on their cities to please taliban's hunger for jannat tickets.

Anti-tank mine kills 18 in Mohmand
GHALANAI: Eighteen people, women and children among them, were killed and six others injured when a bus hit a landmine in Mohmand tribal region on Friday.
...
‘The device was placed by militants who wanted to hit tanks and armoured personnel carriers,’ official sources said.

Taliban claim shooting down army Mi-17 helicopter in Pakistan
Islamabad: The Taliban have claimed responsibility for shooting down a Pakistani military chopper that crashed in the Bajaur tribal area, killing at least six people as they announced a "full scale war" against security forces amid a major anti-militancy campaign in the restive northwest.

Maulvi Faqir Mohammad, deputy chief of the banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, said during a broadcast on his illegal FM radio station late last night that militants had shot down the Mi-17 transport helicopter, which crashed in Nawagai area of the semi-autonomous Bajaur region yesterday.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby ramana » 26 Oct 2009 09:30

I think we need to step back and understand the events in TSP. We are not getting clear picture.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby James B » 26 Oct 2009 09:52

Lal Masjid is still training militants?

It seems that the Lal Masjid saga is not over yet as investigators probing the recent terrorist attacks in Islamabad suspect the involvement of Ghazi Force (GF), a small but lethal militant group named after Ghazi Abdul Rashid, the deputy imam of the Lal Masjid who died in the July 2007 crackdown, Dawn News learnt reliably here on Saturday.

The sources said that Niaz Raheem alias Bilal, the amir of GF, is said to be a prime suspect in terror activities in Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby James B » 26 Oct 2009 10:06

Fake doctors

Some 70,000 quacks with bogus medical degrees are said to be endangering lives across the country. But the recent news of a fake doctors’ recruitment scam at the District Headquarters Hospital in Rawalpindi raises new concerns about the infiltration of such charlatans into our public healthcare institutions. Several senior health officials have already been arrested for the hiring of at least four people — three of them brothers — whose medical certificates were found to be bogus. One was taken on by the hospital as a neurosurgeon no less. 8) While all those found guilty ought to be prosecuted and punished, more comprehensive preventative measures are also in order.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 26 Oct 2009 14:47

Chakwal & madrassehs
Last week I happened to visit my native village in Chakwal located on a marvellous plateau surrounded by the scenic Kallar Kahar, gifted with a large natural lake and peacocks on one side and the fabulous Salt Range and many more green mountains on the other. This patch of land, an abode of soldiers, has many government schools and colleges and various private and Fauji Foundation educational institutions.

However, what I noticed was that of late the region had seen a rapid increase in the number of madressahs — they were found attached to just about every mosque — where impressionable children from impoverished backgrounds were being brainwashed by bigoted mullahs — without even a semblance of modern education. The madressahs nurture hatred, unforgiveness and intolerance and can be found just about anywhere in the district. This needs to be checked or the future of the district could be worse than what we have seen happen in Swat and Waziristan. The storm is brewing.

Lt-Col (r) Malik Khan

Rawalpindi

Chakwal is in the Potohar region that is traditionally the recruitment grounds for the PA. If the situation is there is alarming as the Rted lt. Col says above, we can imagine the Islamization of the PA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 26 Oct 2009 14:53

Misguided Liberal Missiles

I am happy somebody in Pakistan recognizes this, which I have always believed.
The problem actually started much before Zia when the founder of the so-called progressive PPP, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, laid the foundation of fundamentalism in the country by introducing a constitutional amendment that essentially started the process of the state deciding about religious matters.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby santoshriyer » 26 Oct 2009 16:38

ISLAMABAD: Interior minister Rehman Malik has once again claimed that India is fomenting unrest within Pakistan through steps such as funding
Taliban fighters based along the border with Afghanistan.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/India-is-funding-Taliban-fighters-claims-Pakistan/articleshow/5163405.cms

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby CalvinH » 26 Oct 2009 20:00

Avinash R wrote:Apparently miscreants have anti-tank mines and SAM's, this is in addition to the anti-aircraft guns that some tribes have which they used to slaughter each other. Unless someone is clever enough to buy back these weapons, taliban are going to turn islamabad and lahore's landsacpe to match kabul's during their war with the NA. Mortars and artillery will rain on their cities to please taliban's hunger for jannat tickets.


I dont think they have SAM's. Having a SAM will not be much a game changer for Khan but will be a nightmare for PA. A chopper can be shot down in many ways using a AA or RPG.

Anti tank mines are not a big thing. There must be a lot of them on this side due to long war in Afghanistan. Doesnt mean much unless one is facing full scale invasion by armored columns which is not the case here. Pretty much static devices and which cant be used flexibly and the remaining ones must be getting older and dangerous to handle.

Taliban also doesnt have artillery. They are a mobile force and rely mostly on small arms, hit and run tactics and occassional big stand or push through assembled force.

Much as I would like there is no chance of Lahore/Pindi or Islamabad being like Kabul of 90s. Taliban got that kind of firepower back then as it was provided by TSPA, a regular army. Other got it because ruskies left a lot stuff which changed hands between different owners over a period of time.

if someone can provide "bad" Taliban SAMs and anti tank missiles then TSPA is doomed

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Prem » 26 Oct 2009 20:02

Pakistan arrests 11 Iranian guards close to border
QUETTA, Pakistan – Pakistan police arrested 11 Iranian Revolutionary Guard officers Monday for illegally entering the country, amid tensions over a suicide attack that Tehran alleges was carried out by militants backed by Pakistani intelligence officials.

The 11 were taken into custody in Mashkel, close to the countries' shared border in the southwestern province of Baluchistan, police officer Dadur Raman said. He said officers were interrogating the men and had seized two vehicles.

Six Revolutionary Guard officers were among the 42 people killed Oct. 18 by a suicide bomber on the Iranian side of the border near Pishin. Iranian officials blamed the Sunni rebel group known as Jundallah, or Soldiers of God, in the attack and accused elements of Pakistan's intelligence agency of supporting the group
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091026/ap_ ... istan_iran

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Prem » 26 Oct 2009 20:04

Around 200,000 Pakistanis flee heavy military losses
ISLAMABAD (AFP) – Pakistan's huge anti-Taliban offensive has displaced around 200,000 people as soldiers suffered their deadliest 24 hours since the assault began, the military said Monday.

Pakistan has claimed a string of successes and has vowed to crush Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in South Waziristan, pressing its most ambitious battle yet in a tribal area infested with Al-Qaeda-linked rebels.

But in growing signs that Taliban fighters are seeking to widen the conflict across the vast tribal belt and hobble the offensive, heavily armed insurgents killed five Pakistani troops in surprise raids further north.

Although aid workers have no access to South Waziristan, they have expressed increasing concern about the toll on civilians and an army spokesman told AFP that around 200,000 people have fled their homes in the area since August.

"As of today, 26,165 families have been registered," Colonel Waseem Shahid, spokesman for the army's special support group, told AFP.

He said the army uses a working average of eight members to each family.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091026/wl ... 1026141328

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 26 Oct 2009 20:12

PA faces stiff resistance
Pakistani forces fought pitched battles with Taliban fighters in their bid to wrest their hub of Sararogha in South Waziristan killing 34 militants to raise the terrorist death toll to 227, but lost 11 soldiers as insurgents opened new fronts in the lawless region.

Six soldiers were killed in pitched battles as the troops advanced from Kotkai to capture Sararogha and Jandola but had to face heavy resistance from well-entrenched Taliban militants at Ghalai village.

With Monday's heavy losses, Pakistani army casualties climbed upto 30. The troops were supported by attack-helicopters and fighters as the heavy fighting in operation 'Rah-i-Nijat' (Path of Salvation) entered the 10th day.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby anupmisra » 26 Oct 2009 20:14

Prem wrote:Pakistan arrests 11 Iranian guards close to border


All part of the bhai-chara and khatir-dari between two Ummah birathers. Now those Eye-ranians are honored guests of the pa'akis. Watch the Eye-ranians reciprocate this wonderful goodwill gesture.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby milindc » 26 Oct 2009 20:21

CalvinH wrote:if someone can provide "bad" Taliban SAMs and anti tank missiles then TSPA is doomed

At the risk of being labeled a tactical brilliant suggestion :oops: , is there anything we can do to keep the pot boiling.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 26 Oct 2009 20:25

CalvinH, Taliban do possess MANPADs. An MI-17 helicopter was brought down during Kargil war by one such missile. Apparenly, it was a Stinger. As for anti-Tank mines, this is not the first time these have been used by the Taliban. They first used it in Bajaur, in that fierce fight, from which the PA eventually retreated after suffering heavy casualties.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Kati » 26 Oct 2009 20:47

milindc wrote:
CalvinH wrote:if someone can provide "bad" Taliban SAMs and anti tank missiles then TSPA is doomed

At the risk of being labeled a tactical brilliant suggestion :oops: , is there anything we can do to keep the pot boiling.


Apart from doing whatever is necessary ( :lol: :lol: ) to keep the pot boiling, GoI should have a discussion on the parliament floor about how innocent civilians are getting crushed by PA in FATA. All political parties should come together to express 'deep concern' for the civilians. The govt should offer 'humanatarian help' (blanket, tents, etc etc) to uprooted tribals. Send a strong message to USA and NATO publicly about not to support PA and FC in their civilian killing spree. GoI should tell the public (Indian Muslims) that continuing push by PA is destroying mosques and other civilian places which should be protected at any cost. GoI should send our hajj committee members to investigate whether wanton destruction of mosques is taking place or not. Oh, by the way, GoI can offer GoP help in securing nuclear assets. GoP can send their U pr Plu stockpile to India temporarily until talibs are gone for ever :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ....

I tell you this will be a game changer in Kashmir and other places .....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby saip » 26 Oct 2009 20:59

SSridhar wrote:CalvinH, Taliban do possess MANPADs. An MI-17 helicopter was brought down during Kargil war by one such missile. Apparenly, it was a Stinger. As for anti-Tank mines, this is not the first time these have been used by the Taliban. They first used it in Bajaur, in that fierce fight, from which the PA eventually retreated after suffering heavy casualties.


Wasnt a regular paki soldier given an award for bringing down the plane? In any case the socalled jihadis during Kargil were just an extension of the paki army.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby gandharva » 26 Oct 2009 21:31

I tell you this will be a game changer in Kashmir and other places .....


I don't think you understand the working of a believer's mind. Kafir's are from Satan and momins are from ........

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby BijuShet » 26 Oct 2009 21:47

SSridhar wrote:Chakwal & madrassehs
Last week I happened to visit my native village in Chakwal located on a marvellous plateau surrounded ...

However, what I noticed was that of late the region had seen a rapid increase in the number of madressahs ...
Lt-Col (r) Malik Khan

Rawalpindi

Chakwal is in the Potohar region that is traditionally the recruitment grounds for the PA. If the situation is there is alarming as the Rted lt. Col says above, we can imagine the Islamization of the PA.

FYI: Chakwal is the district from where Ayaz Amir was elected to the Parliament (PML-N). He writes for Dawn and his articles are often qouted in this thread.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby S.Gautam » 26 Oct 2009 22:18

Might not have been Revolutionary Guards.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 90425.html

Some reports said that all of those detained on Monday in Mashkel, close to the countries' shared border in the southwestern Balochistan province, were Iranian Revolutionary Guards.

However, Iranian state television quoted a border police official as saying that the people interned included police and suspected drug dealers.

Iranian TV reported that some of the country's border police had been pursuing suspected drug dealers along the border, before following them into Pakistan where the suspects and guards were arrested.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby shravan » 26 Oct 2009 23:03

India rejects Pak charges of funding Taliban

"I reject it. I think we want Taliban and Talibanism to be totally eliminated," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Rahul Shukla » 26 Oct 2009 23:16

Nishan-e-Pakistan conferred on Erdogan (Daily Mail)

“in recognition of his visionary leadership and his outstanding contributions in strengthening Pakistan-Turkey relations, the President of Pakistan has been pleased to confer on His Excellency Mr. recap Tayyip Erdogan, the Prime Minister of the Republic of Turkey, the Award of Nishan-e-Pakistan.”

Every 3rd arab and his camel would have received this award by 2020.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Rahul Shukla » 26 Oct 2009 23:22

1,000 NGOs in line to work in Pakistan for KLL dollars (The News)

ISLAMABAD: With the Pakistan government is wishing to get the major chunk of the Kerry-Lugar Law aid directly, Special US Envoy Richard Holbrooke has already started looking at 1,000 NGOs many of which may be used to carry out projects in Pakistan.
...differences still persist since Washington has decided to engage the American NGOs, known commonly as the Beltway Bandits. A database of these 1,000 organisations is being compiled and updated, Holbrooke told the briefing.

This is being done notwithstanding Pakistan’s objections to the deployment of foreign NGOs to run aid programmes instead of utilising the money through local organisations. Rough expert estimates show that a foreign employee of an NGO is approximately paid 135 times higher than a local employee. Holbrooke was himself running three NGOs until recently, one of which was operating in Pakistan.
His office has appointed a full-time NGO person to coordinate activities of all such organisations while there are reports that former ambassador Robin Raphael has been appointed as the super monitor and coordinator.
Holbrooke asked for personal approval of every project funding renewal involving US contractors.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby CalvinH » 26 Oct 2009 23:31

saip wrote:
SSridhar wrote:CalvinH, Taliban do possess MANPADs. An MI-17 helicopter was brought down during Kargil war by one such missile. Apparenly, it was a Stinger. As for anti-Tank mines, this is not the first time these have been used by the Taliban. They first used it in Bajaur, in that fierce fight, from which the PA eventually retreated after suffering heavy casualties.


Wasnt a regular paki soldier given an award for bringing down the plane? In any case the so called jihadis during Kargil were just an extension of the paki army.


I think they were pak army regulars or NLI regulars. Even if they were "miscreants" its been more then 10 years to the incident. Add 10-15 more years before for the stinger was originally supplied to the Afghans for fighting against russies. How long is the shelf life of the missile+launcher without OEM supported maintenance?

If there are any workable stingers left they are with ISI/TSPA waiting to be supplied to Jihadis to fight against India when the time comes. Basically TSPA knew they were good assets and tightly controlled the supplies to Mujahedeen’s during afghan war. Once the war ended left out and not distributed ones were collected by ISI/TSPA to be used against India in Kashmir. They faked a fire in ammunition depot to tell Khan that they all got lost in the fire. In nutshell current "miscreants" cant have them stingers as they are only with TSPA/ISI who are waiting for the right moment in the fight against the kaffirs.

Free MANPADS like that will worry Khan too as they can inflict significant casualties to the NATO troops but we have never heard Taliban using them against NATO forces.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Johann » 27 Oct 2009 00:08

Calvin H,

- The Afghan Muj 1979-89 brought down the vast majority of Soviet and DRA helicopters *without* MANPADs. The majority were transport helicopters, exactly like this Mi-17. They generally used heavy machine guns and RPGs emplaced on heights which give them good arcs of observation and fire.

- The Taliban have used the same tactics to bring down and/or severely damage American helicopters, particularly during special operations. Remember Takur Ghar overlooking the Shahikot valley during Op Anaconda in 2002? Or the Chinook shot down in 2005?

The US also lost quite a few helicopters in combat in Iraq 2005-06.

- Stingers gave the Muj the ability to take on heavily armoured and manoeuverable attack helicopters (like the Mi-25) and fixed wing aircraft.

- The majority of stingers battery coolant units would have died back in the early to mid 1990s.

- Anza Manpads that POF manufactures are perfectly capable of taking down Mi-17s. This is because they are copies of the Chinese QW systems, which were built with the help of reverse-engineered Stingers the Pakistanis handed over to them. That is most likely what was used during Kargil.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Paul » 27 Oct 2009 01:21

ramana wrote:I think we need to step back and understand the events in TSP. We are not getting clear picture.


In the NWFP, it appears that the Mehsuds are the only ones fighting the Pakistan army. The other tribes are in a wait and watch mode. Mehsuds are like the Sisodias of the Rajputs, they are the blue blooded Pakhtuns east of the Durand line.

It may appear that the PA is winning the war, as they have successfully gone into FATA ....and done what the Brits could not do for a 100 years. But the Brits had thought this through. Their intention was to localize the virus and prevent the Afghan state from getting any horny ideas. Basically they stabilized the Durand line. The Pakis will have ejected Hakimullah from Waziristan, but will they be able to stabilize the situation in the future????

Secondly, so far the situation is not as bad for Pakistan as it looking from outside. Only about 30K troops have been deployed for this operation. All the strike corps units are still on their eastern borders.

From Indian interests POV, the question is: WHat needs to happen to move these strike units to the Durand line?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Postby Lalmohan » 27 Oct 2009 01:44

^^^ recently been reading about british imperial adventures in afghanistan, the later punitive expeditions were all with relatively modest numbers. i imagine that there just were not enough troops to be spared from mainland peace enforcement operations. supply lines into the hills were problematic, success was obtained by rapid marches, fighting on the fly and the grit of sikh, scottish and gurkha troops. british generals sometimes lost their nerve and squandered gains by failing to reinforce them. the gordon highlanders had to storm the dargai heights twice with heavy casualties because the first time around they had insufficient reinforcements to safeguard their position. the PA has gone in with very large numbers and what appears to be a good logistical chain... however it remains vulnerable due to the geography and as ever, the willingness of the tribes en route to play ball


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