Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

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pgbhat
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 12 Nov 2009 20:29

R Atkinson wrote:Not sure if this is the right thread but nonetheless, this is an interesting piece.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... table=true

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5275&p=769913&hilit=hersh#p769913

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 12 Nov 2009 20:44

AdityaM wrote:Wazir-e-azam is at it again!!
The return of the 10%ti
:rotfl:
Zardari got millions as bribe in submarine deal: French daily

In addition, the daily said investigators believed that the non-payment of the full amount of the agreed kickbacks may have led to the deaths of 11 French nationals in a 2002 terror attack in the port city of Karachi. :shock:


For French speakers the source article from the Liberation newspaper is available here:

Les pots-de-vin du président pakistanais

For those not knowing French, a translation of the article is available here:

Agosta Kickbacks: The Libération Story on Zardari’s Corruption (Translated from the French)

An excerpt:

Eleven employees of the Directorate of Naval Construction (DCN) died on May 8, 2002 in Karachi, while they worked with Pakistan under this contract. In the search for causes of this attack, the judge is no longer focusing on the scenario of a bombing by Al-Qaeda, but instead is exploring two other possibilities. One hypothesis is that the attack was related to unpaid kickbacks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby harbans » 12 Nov 2009 20:58

^^Regarding the kickbacks, Z was not in an official position then. It was BB, if it's the 94-95 time frame. Z was very well known as 10%i, however he was pretty much doing so in an unofficial capacity using BB who would certainly be in the know.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby James B » 12 Nov 2009 21:21

AoA. Paki fauj get their 72s 8)

Taliban battles kill 10 Pakistan troops: officials

At least 10 Pakistani soldiers were killed Thursday when troops encountered the stiffest resistance yet during a four-week offensive against the Taliban, military and security officials said.

The violence erupted as troops trying to clear rebel fighters from the rugged South Waziristan region advanced on areas adjoining the Taliban stronghold of Kanigurram, the military said in a statement.

The military said five soldiers and 22 militants were killed, but army and security officials in the area said 10 to 15 troops died in what would be the deadliest single incident for troops in South Waziristan since October 17.
"At least 10 soldiers were killed in the clashes, which included some face-to-face fighting," one army officer said.
Last edited by James B on 12 Nov 2009 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2009 21:28

shravan wrote:Iran mission official shot dead in Pakistan: police

(AFP)

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Gunmen shot dead a Pakistani spokesman for the Iranian consulate in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Thursday as he was on his way to work, police said.

Attackers targeted Abu Al-Hasan Jaffry, director of public relations and protocol at the consulate in Peshawar, as he left for the office in his car, senior police official Nisar Marwat told AFP.


Could be related to the Peshawar bomb blasts which were linked to possible Jundullah charges from Iran.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby krithivas » 12 Nov 2009 22:26

Power of 3 to the three applies here:
Total = 5 Soldiers + 22 Bunnies = 27 = 3^3.
Apologize for this otherwise no value add post.


James B wrote:AoA. Paki fauj get their 72s 8)

Taliban battles kill 10 Pakistan troops: officials

At least 10 Pakistani soldiers were killed Thursday when troops encountered the stiffest resistance yet during a four-week offensive against the Taliban, military and security officials said.

The violence erupted as troops trying to clear rebel fighters from the rugged South Waziristan region advanced on areas adjoining the Taliban stronghold of Kanigurram, the military said in a statement.

The military said five soldiers and 22 militants were killed, but army and security officials in the area said 10 to 15 troops died in what would be the deadliest single incident for troops in South Waziristan since October 17.
"At least 10 soldiers were killed in the clashes, which included some face-to-face fighting," one army officer said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby James B » 12 Nov 2009 23:09


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby jash_p » 12 Nov 2009 23:45

I heared Rush Limbau talking about Hassan Malik transfering money to Pakiland but living in poverty somthing like that (I could not catch properly as elec. was fluctuating)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shyamd » 13 Nov 2009 00:05

ramana wrote:
shravan wrote:Iran mission official shot dead in Pakistan: police

(AFP)

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Gunmen shot dead a Pakistani spokesman for the Iranian consulate in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Thursday as he was on his way to work, police said.

Attackers targeted Abu Al-Hasan Jaffry, director of public relations and protocol at the consulate in Peshawar, as he left for the office in his car, senior police official Nisar Marwat told AFP.


Could be related to the Peshawar bomb blasts which were linked to possible Jundullah charges from Iran.

Most likely yes. Jundullah was created by ISI, but is financially supported by Riyadh and Islamabad. Iran prefered to deal with Jundullah issue diplomatically. Imitating methods used by the US to isolate AQ and its backers in Iraq, the Pasdarans have been organising meetings with Sunni tribal chiefs in the Sistan region in recent months, offering them jobs and money to cut ties with Jundullah.The bomb that killed the senior military leaders targetted one such meeting.

The rest of the details are in my previous post on this topic.

KSA GID has helped to finance Jundallah ever since it was set up in the hope of destabilising Iran. Small Sunni guerilla groups in the southern province of Khuzestan also get backing from Islamabad and Riyadh.

Whats been happening is that the IRGC, had been meeting with Sunni tribal chiefs in Sistan province.

The war has escalated, and the killing of the Iranian official is probably due to Iranian activity in TSP. The unit that was set up may have swung into action already.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby svinayak » 13 Nov 2009 01:29

Johann wrote:Acharya,

There is a lot more to the world than India and the West.

Arabs formed the core of the global jihad.

In the 1990s Arab jihadis returning from Af-Pak were overwhelmingly focused on taking over Algeria and Egypt. Westerners in those countries were in fact some of their most popular targets, along with the national leaderships.

When those jihads failed by the late 1990s they turned to jihad against the West as a whole, which they blamed for stymieing them.

Bin Laden's message was very simple - until you drive the West out of the Arab world there can be no Islamic revolution.

Many of the jihadis who fled from Algeria and Egypt stopped by in Bosnia and Chechnya before heading to Afghanistan and Pakistan.


I know about it.
Most of the attacks on the west was staged without major retaliation.
But the information which you present in the BRF forum and the history are skewed and mostly 80% are not accurate.
Last edited by svinayak on 13 Nov 2009 02:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby putnanja » 13 Nov 2009 02:48

Pak-born US nationals' visas to be cleared by Delhi

Union Home Secretary G K Pillai recently issued instructions under which all applications for Indian visa from Pakistani-born US nationals would now be processed and cleared by New Delhi instead of its missions in America.
...
...


In fact, they should make it mandatory that all pak-born people's visas would be cleared in Delhi only irrespective of what citizenship they hold or which country they apply for visas

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby svinayak » 13 Nov 2009 03:01

RaviBg wrote:Pak-born US nationals' visas to be cleared by Delhi

Union Home Secretary G K Pillai recently issued instructions under which all applications for Indian visa from Pakistani-born US nationals would now be processed and cleared by New Delhi instead of its missions in America.
...
...


In fact, they should make it mandatory that all pak-born people's visas would be cleared in Delhi only irrespective of what citizenship they hold or which country they apply for visas

Similarly they should do this for Bangaldeshi born US citizens. Lot of Bangladeshi have settled in US and they get support from the US govt due to US aid to Bangla.

Euro countries do this for all application coming from US.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Johann » 13 Nov 2009 03:19

Acharya wrote:
Johann wrote:In the 1990s Arab jihadis returning from Af-Pak were overwhelmingly focused on taking over Algeria and Egypt. Westerners in those countries were in fact some of their most popular targets, along with the national leaderships.

I know about it.
Most of the attacks on the west was staged without major retaliation.


Acharya,

No retaliation? What would you describe the sanctions against Sudan as? Or the cruise missile attack of 1998?

The global jihad against the West in the 1990s largely operated out of Sudan after the Pakistanis were placed on the watch list of terrorist states.

Sudan eventually decided it wasnt worth it, and by the late 1990s the centre of action shifted back to Pakistan and its sphere of influence in Afghanistan.

It is important not to reduce the struggles within the Islamic world just to just the Subcontinent and the West, or even Saudi Arabia and Iran. The world is a much bigger place than that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby amdavadi » 13 Nov 2009 03:43

What about US born paki? We should look at them too. If paki can change his name to avoid sencond look, than we
should second look every paki from every corner of the world comming to India.

On otherhand, we havent been able to stop pakis rats from entering india illegally.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shyamd » 13 Nov 2009 03:53

Acharya wrote:Pak-born US nationals' visas to be cleared by Delhi

Union Home Secretary G K Pillai recently issued instructions under which all applications for Indian visa from Pakistani-born US nationals would now be processed and cleared by New Delhi instead of its missions in America.
...
...


In fact, they should make it mandatory that all pak-born people's visas would be cleared in Delhi only irrespective of what citizenship they hold or which country they apply for visas

Hellooo...they already do this don't they???? Foreign nationals of Pak/BD descent have to fill out special forms for Indian visa.

Link
2. British passport holders of Pakistani origin:

i. General application form.
ii. A notarised invitation from relative(s) in India with a photo ID.
iii. A copy of employer's letter OR A chartered accountant's certificate (if self-employed) OR An unemployment allowance letter / disability allowance letter / benefit letter (if unemployed) AND latest one month bank statement.


4. British Passport Holders of Bangladeshi Origin:

i. General application form.
ii. A copy of employer's letter OR A chartered accountant's certificate (if self-employed) OR An unemployment allowance letter / disability allowance letter / benefit letter (if unemployed) AND latest one month bank statement.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 13 Nov 2009 04:07

^^^
This time around looks like RAA and eye-bee agents in dilli will take a look at the applications. :wink:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby putnanja » 13 Nov 2009 04:11

shyamd, the link talks about additional paperwork. But the visa is still issued by the missions abroad. I believe they just have a black list to go by.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby amdavadi » 13 Nov 2009 04:20

pgbhat,

Thats nothing new. They have been doing that for last few years. :wink:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shyamd » 13 Nov 2009 04:33

A diplomat in Pakistan, a purchasing agent in Georgia

Amiri and Asgari are not the only missing high-profile Iranians.

One of their diplomats in Islamabad has vanished, apparently kidnapped by a radical Sunni group.

His name has never been disclosed, but his alias in Pakistan was Mahmoud Ziaee and his job, DEBKA-Net-Weekly reveals, was the supervision of clandestine liaison between Tehran and Pakistani nuclear scientists.

The third Iranian official to vanish is Mohammad Ardebili. He has not been seen since he was sent to Georgia to buy enriched uranium and processing equipment. Iran still does not know whether the man defected willingly or was abducted by CIA agents.

Tehran lost a second Iranian scientist two months ago. Under the alias of Heidar Samari, he was employed at the nuclear facility in Isfahan at which raw uranium is converted into a gas before its transfer to Natanz for enrichment by centrifuges.

Tehran is deeply concerned that US or Israeli intelligence has identified some of Iran's senior nuclear scientists and is targeting them for possible abduction or as defectors. In recent months, severe restrictions have been placed on their movements even inside the country. They only travel abroad under close supervision. The scientists and their families have been moved to special living quarters which are kept under constant surveillance.

Tehran was deeply shocked by reports that Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu provided Moscow with a detailed list of Russian scientists assisting the Iranian nuclear program. Heads of the regime were not reassured by the denial issued Tuesday, Oct. 6, in a statement by a very senior Russian, National Security Council Chairman, Nikolai Patrushev, former chief of the FSB, the Russian secret service.

Tehran is leaning hard on Moscow for a copy of the list, but continues to encounter blank denials of its existence.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Prem » 13 Nov 2009 04:56

RaviBg wrote:shyamd, the link talks about additional paperwork. But the visa is still issued by the missions abroad. I believe they just have a black list to go by.


Grant them visa as well 2 Gaj jameen.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Charlie » 13 Nov 2009 04:57

shyamd wrote:A diplomat in Pakistan, a purchasing agent in Georgia

Amiri and Asgari are not the only missing high-profile Iranians.

One of their diplomats in Islamabad has vanished, apparently kidnapped by a radical Sunni group.

His name has never been disclosed, but his alias in Pakistan was Mahmoud Ziaee and his job, DEBKA-Net-Weekly reveals, was the supervision of clandestine liaison between Tehran and Pakistani nuclear scientists.

The third Iranian official to vanish is Mohammad Ardebili. He has not been seen since he was sent to Georgia to buy enriched uranium and processing equipment. Iran still does not know whether the man defected willingly or was abducted by CIA agents.

Tehran lost a second Iranian scientist two months ago. Under the alias of Heidar Samari, he was employed at the nuclear facility in Isfahan at which raw uranium is converted into a gas before its transfer to Natanz for enrichment by centrifuges.

Tehran is deeply concerned that US or Israeli intelligence has identified some of Iran's senior nuclear scientists and is targeting them for possible abduction or as defectors. In recent months, severe restrictions have been placed on their movements even inside the country. They only travel abroad under close supervision. The scientists and their families have been moved to special living quarters which are kept under constant surveillance.

Tehran was deeply shocked by reports that Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu provided Moscow with a detailed list of Russian scientists assisting the Iranian nuclear program. Heads of the regime were not reassured by the denial issued Tuesday, Oct. 6, in a statement by a very senior Russian, National Security Council Chairman, Nikolai Patrushev, former chief of the FSB, the Russian secret service.

Tehran is leaning hard on Moscow for a copy of the list, but continues to encounter blank denials of its existence.



If Russians are willing to supply scientists for money to rogue nations around the world why are we not using Russians on full throttle. All are DRDO projects and other Defense projects are languishing. One interesting point is Russians sit pretty in their siberian cities without any powerful rogue neighbors like we have and supply weapons to evry dick who can afford.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Muppalla » 13 Nov 2009 05:01



Basically the approval is moving from External Affairs Ministry to Home Ministry. By the way, it is way too complex then as the approval has to come from the State Home ministries where all the abduls are visiting before it is approved by Union Home affairs. The State Home ministires get the info from the Police Commisoners before they pass the file to Union.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby svinayak » 13 Nov 2009 05:28

Muppalla wrote:


Basically the approval is moving from External Affairs Ministry to Home Ministry. By the way, it is way too complex then as the approval has to come from the State Home ministries where all the abduls are visiting before it is approved by Union Home affairs. The State Home ministires get the info from the Police Commisoners before they pass the file to Union.

Lot of these US nationals from Pak origin are directly or indirectly working for ISI. It could deadly dangerous if they move inside the Indian elite circles/politico etc and nobody knows who they are. Travel companies, Taxi companies , real estates could be targeted by these nationals and will be direct informers for ISI handlers.
Some 30 US green card holders are in the Pak elected assembly. They are almost naturalized citizens.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Prem » 13 Nov 2009 05:39

A thought just came to my mind, last week RNI Naqvi in Dawn was making case for granting citizenship to Paki Abduls; This just cant be a conincident . I have suspicion that the infiltration scheme is being worked out at many level to facilitate Jihadis within India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby mayo » 13 Nov 2009 05:40


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Guddu » 13 Nov 2009 07:00

Fort Hood suspect may have wired money to Pakistan

Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, would not identify the sources. But he said "they are trying to follow up on it because they recognize that if there are communications – phone or money transfers with somebody in Pakistan – it just raises a whole other level of questions." .


It seems that some paki jernail may have been funding these guys...no wonder they did not want Indian intelligence to interview them..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Charlie » 13 Nov 2009 07:16

Dont know if all the posters know abt this site. Still posting

http://thedawn.com.pk/

It is one of those anti India Paki sites which has broken-up India map on its front page and is also well written.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Anujan » 13 Nov 2009 07:17

Guddu wrote:It seems that some paki jernail may have been funding these guys...no wonder they did not want Indian intelligence to interview them..


This is a different Paki. You are confusing Dennis/Dawood with this guy. The other guy (Dennis/Dawood) is who we could not interview. This is the Jordanian guy who went and shot a bunch of soldiers in fort hood. He (apparently) had no connection with Pakistan at all, except, now, as expected, his Paki connection is beginning to emerge.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Nandu » 13 Nov 2009 07:19

mayo wrote:Seymore Hersh Interviews on the NYorker article
...
Al Jazeera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EDaSbMkrfY


I am worried about the argument that Hersh makes about India. He says the US can send a team into Pakistan to secure the nukes and then tell India to reduce the troop levels because they can guarantee the nukes are "safe", which will then allow Pakis to pull troops out to fight the Talibunnies.

a) What kind of argument is that? It is true that India needs to be more alert at the border when Pakistan is in chaos, but I don't see how it protects specifically against loose nukes, or why the securing of nukes should have any implication on India reducing troop levels.

b) Why should we rely on US guarantees on such a serious, life and death, issue? If they can give us guarantees, the best we should do is to return a guarantee to them that we will not attack Pakistan while they are ostensibly busy fighting the Talibunnies. I don't see any reason why their guarantee is to be taken any more seriously than our guarantee.

My real worry is that Delhi might have bought into this argument, as Hersh implies, though it still boggles my mind as to why we would do so.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Pranay » 13 Nov 2009 07:43

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11 ... ?ref=world


Pakistan’s Spy Agency Attacked in City of Peshawar

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: November 12, 2009
Filed at 9:11 p.m. ET

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) -- Witnesses say a large bomb has badly damaged the offices of Pakistan's spy agency in the northwestern city of Peshawar.

An Associated Press reporter says he saw at least eight badly injured or dead people being taken away in ambulances.

The blast early Friday badly damaged much of the three-story building and was heard throughout the city.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8358109.stm

Blast 'hits Peshawar security HQ'

A loud explosion has hit a security agency building in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar, according to witnesses.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 13 Nov 2009 07:50

Casualities reported in the demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan in Peshawar this morning.

Not clear if this is an IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan though given that today is Friday, the Islamic Sabbath, a good possibility:

Peshawar blast kills 4, injures over 16

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 13 Nov 2009 07:58

Peshawar blast kills 5, injures over 16
AoA!! or as lalbrof would say OMGIF. 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 13 Nov 2009 08:04

Why should we rely on US guarantees on such a serious, life and death, issue? If they can give us guarantees, the best we should do is to return a guarantee to them that we will not attack Pakistan while they are ostensibly busy fighting the Talibunnies. I don't see any reason why their guarantee is to be taken any more seriously than our guarantee.


Chances are we won't be drawn into unkil's sweet little games on this one, IMHO.

The khanate has already given Izloo ironclad guarantees against a full-scale invasion by Dilli by stationing its own troops and forces in bases spread all over TSP.

What unkil has so far been unable to guarantee to izloo is that Dilli won't do some surgical/ predatory/ punitive strikes on pious izlamic soil and return to base without holding territory or any such idiocy. IOW, unkil can't guarantee to TSP that Dilli will commit suicide.

My real worry is that Delhi might have bought into this argument, as Hersh implies, though it still boggles my mind as to why we would do so.


Hersh's best days are obviously behind him. His 'brilliant scoops' and awesome sources+ overdone pull all appear ghost written by the same khanian agencies that provide him said access on the condition they get to ghost write propagandu under his name. Strictly JMTs and all that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 13 Nov 2009 08:09

Hari,

You may find this of interest:

What is motivating the most recent Sy Hersh sources?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Vivek_A » 13 Nov 2009 08:15

TFT is out



The anti-American mind

Khaled Ahmed
Anti-Americanism feeds on a multiplicity of sources, anti-imperialist literature that was once the stronghold of the Left is now the bailiwick of the Right

Pakistan is overwhelmingly anti-American. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton got a taste of it when questions were asked of her about the Kerry-Lugar Act. The domestic voice that took the Act in its stride was muffled; the opinion that moulds the public mind was monolithically anti-American. American journalist and writer Pamela Constable noted in Peshawar after the Meena Bazaar explosion that the victims insisted that the deed was not done by the Taliban. Anyone who watched TV would have come to the conclusion that the victims didn’t want to name the Taliban but implicitly pointed to mischief jointly planned by the US and India. The media and the state institutions set the stage for this.

Dividends of anti-Americanism: The traditional English-Urdu divide was persistent but on both sides the dominant opinion was anti-American, led by diplomats angered by what they thought was violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty through the Kerry-Lugar Act. No alternative to American aid was proposed: everyone who spoke thought that America needed Pakistan more than Pakistan needed America, meaning that anti-Americanism will actually bring higher political and financial dividends. No proper analysis of the post-NATO order in Afghanistan was carried out except that all will be well in Pakistan ‘once the Americans are gone’.

The many reasons for anti-Americanism include the interpretation of the war against terrorism broadcast by the state institutions including the government. The most meaningful ‘gloss’ attached to incidents of terrorism is that the Taliban that hurt Pakistan do so because they are being bribed by India, whose weapons are found in South Waziristan, and proof of whose interference in Balochistan is undeniable. This feeds into the textbook designation of India as the enemy in Pakistani nationalism. The US becomes attached to it because of the leeway it has afforded India inside Afghanistan, allowing it to open dozens of ‘consulates’ there. When the Interior Minister says that ‘unfriendly agencies’ are behind the Taliban terrorism, people tend to add the US to the equation against all logic.

The factor of Jihadi intimidation: The other significant element is the state of intimidation under which the population, the state and the media are living. This emanates from the high point reached in the state’s loss of internal sovereignty and loss of the right of ‘monopoly of violence’. Magazines published by the banned terrorist organisations regularly publish lists of ‘renegade’ journalists whom the editors consider ‘against Islam’. Although no direct threats to life are issued but the lists are interpreted as messages for the errant writers to stop writing against what the Islamists consider impermissible. Ayesha Siddiqa, the scholar who wrote a book critical of the Pakistan army, has been thus threatened by a Jaish publication after she described the state of terrorist siege in South Punjab.

Intimidation could be overwhelmingly the reason for Pakistan’s anti-Americanism. A jihadi publication al-Salam , by publishing the list of ‘undesirable’ journalists and columnists, has silenced a lot of objective analysts. Word of mouth, a telephone call, an email, a friendly word from the intelligence agencies, can create a wave of opinion that spares the jihadi organisations and blames the US for heaping one-sided criticism on Pakistan for not tackling the banned organisations that Pakistan never really banned. This campaign of intimidation doesn’t only affect the populations that live in areas controlled by the jihadis, but also the politicians who come from there. South Punjabi politicians and members of the federally administered tribal areas (FATA) simply cannot afford to label the Taliban and their jihadi networks as terrorists.

Ghairat versus objective analysis: The Urdu-English divide has always been there, the former more a carrier of the Pakistan ideology that equates Islam with hatred of India, the Jews and, increasingly, America; the latter expressing a more liberal, objective, and global understanding of Pakistan’s plight. One scrutinises the state of nationalism in Pakistan and such tribal concepts as ghairat (honour); the other scrutinises the functioning of the state and its bad laws such as the blasphemy law. If there is an Urdu-English overlap, it is in favour of the Urdu opinion. English-language opinion hardly penetrates the Urdu press, unless a selective translation appears favouring the non-liberal view or expressing the liberal-Chomskyan world view.

The role of the intelligence agencies cannot be ignored in producing mass anti-Americanism. Ex-ISI officers pour out venom against the ‘perfidy of the US’ on short-changing Pakistan and always siding with India, on a daily basis on the TV channels. A recent extremely shocking interview ( The News , 3 November 2009) ex-ISI officer Khalid Khawaja has explained how adherence to Islam actually means standing up and opposing the US.

The ‘rogue’ inside the state structure: The article Khalid Khawaja: Once an Insider has Khawaja saying that the Muslim League of Mr Nawaz Sharif had an Islamist bias and was therefore the choice of the ISI to rule Pakistan after the end of the ‘Islamic’ rule of General Zia in 1988. Together with fellow-ISI officer Brigadier Imtiaz Ahmad (Retd) he believes that ‘interest of the state’ is paramount while obedience to an erring elected government is not. Of course the ‘interest of the state’ is to be determined by the officers who ‘know more than the government’.

Former French investigative magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere, now the European Union’s envoy to Washington on issues related to the financing of terrorism, in his new book, What I Could Not Say , narrates what happened to him after he came to Pakistan in 2006 to investigate a suicide bombing that had killed 11 French naval contractors three years earlier. He writes that ‘Pakistani security officials were uncooperative and hostile; French officials in Pakistan were the target of threats and physical intimidation: a way of dissuading us from returning’. His conclusion is that ‘the central government has lost control of certain elements of the army and the ISI, an intelligence service that no longer has the trust of its foreign partners’.

Anti-Americanism feeds on a multiplicity of sources, anti-imperialist literature that was once the stronghold of the Left is now the bailiwick of the Right.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Vivek_A » 13 Nov 2009 08:19

TSPA's monica and TFT grand poohbah weighs in




Here’s how the US is a bigger threat!

Ejaz Haider
Unless the US decides to effect a phased withdrawal from Afghanistan by involving Pakistan and working towards what is doable rather than what is desirable, the situation in the region would continue to go from bad to worse; that, in turn, could have a worsening impact on US-Pakistan relation

In August, Al Jazeera released the results of a survey commissioned by it and conducted by Gallup Pakistan. One question related to the biggest threat faced by Pakistan today. Not the Taliban (11 percent); not even India (18 percent). For the majority of respondents (59 percent), it was the United States!

Ill-informed opinion? Semi-informed? The sample comprised 2600 respondents and, according to Gallup Pakistan, “interviews were conducted across the political spectrum in all four of the country’s provinces, and represented men and women of every economic and ethnic background”.

Surprising result? Consider.

Threat analysis is not an exercise in linear causality. The threat perception from America therefore may not be rejected simply because, for instance, the US is providing funds to Pakistan (the Kerry-Lugar Act comes to mind) or calls Pakistan an ally. Any analysis would require understanding a complex array of factors.

Similarly, threat perception is not a fixed notion and depends on unfolding situations. In theory, if at point X Pakistanis feel that in situation Y the level of threat from the US stands at 9 on a scale of 1 to 10, at point A and in situation B it could drop to 2.

A simple benchmark to use is the capability-intention framework. States invariably employ it to determine threats and counter-measures, not just immediate but also distant, not just possible but also probable. Capability is important because intentions can undergo a change, depending on situations and interests.

From this perspective, let’s consider the Pakistani Taliban, India and the US in a simple model.

Can the Pakistani Taliban defeat the Pakistan Army? No. While they have the capacity to become a diabetic case, they can neither defeat the army nor capture territory. In the last four years, wherever they did capture territory, and that had specific reasons, they could not retain it in the face of a sustained military offensive.

Theoretically, the other option for them would be to act as political actors and dispose of resources in a non-violent electoral contest. They don’t have the capacity and wherewithal for that, or the intention. Even mainstream religious parties and groups in Pakistan have traditionally done poorly in any electoral exercise. Pakistan, from that perspective, is the safest bet in the entire Muslim world.

What about India? It does pose a threat and a long-term one; but again, India does not have the capability at this stage to defeat Pakistan in a direct contest of arms (many factors have gone into the deterrence trajectory over a long period of time, foremost among them the nuclear balance of terror). Alone, and without employing multiple sources of power, mostly indirect, to hurt Pakistan, India cannot take on Pakistan.

That leaves the US. In theory, it is only the US that can militarily defeat Pakistan and against whose onslaught Pakistan’s nuclear deterrence has limitations of reach. Pakistan does not have ICBM (inter-continental ballistic missile) and/or SSBN (ship submersible ballistic nuclear) capability, the former to pose a threat to mainland America, the latter for assured second strike, both crucial for effective deterrence.

This does not mean the US can get a walk-over or Pakistan does not have options; nor does it mean the US could attack Pakistan or is planning to do so in the near future. What it does mean, using the capability-intention framework, is that if the US were to decide to directly threaten Pakistan, it has the capability to do so – much more than the Taliban or India.


Having said this, it would be rank stupid to think the US would threaten Pakistan directly. This is where we get into some complexities.

As the situation stands, the two other threats, the Taliban and India, link up with the US presence in Pakistan’s near-abroad. Pakistan would not be facing the Taliban threat without the US-led, UN-sanctioned invasion of Afghanistan. That invasion, and the inability of the US and NATO-ISAF forces to control Afghanistan has resulted in massive disruption in Pakistan’s tribal areas which had remained quiet until June 2004.

Historically, any uprising or insurgency in Afghanistan has always attracted fighters from east of the Durand Line and vice versa. This was exactly the ethno-religious phenomenon the US-led effort against the Soviet Union exploited in the eighties. This time the US is at the wrong end of the stick.

The internal security situation faced by Pakistan is directly owed to US presence in Afghanistan. This is also why there is such intense debate in the country over whether this is our war.

Our war did not start as ours but because of US actions has now been thrust on us as ours . Some groups are doing something which threatens the state interests, not because they can take over the state ideologically or territorially but because their actions can expose the state to a threat bigger than the one they pose.

This means two things: one, the state has chosen to prevent itself from being exposed to a bigger threat by fighting these groups; two, by fighting them the state has exposed itself to a threat, though a lesser one, to prevent itself from a greater threat – i.e., not fighting these groups would render Pakistan vulnerable to a much stronger adversary with a global outreach.

Pakistanis are therefore right in thinking that the biggest threat to Pakistan the world talks about today is neither the biggest nor strictly indigenous. If Pakistan did not have to stop people from crossing the Durand Line, it would face no direct threat from elements that have banded together under the generic rubric of Taliban. The threat it would then have to face, a much bigger and serious one, comes from the US! By taking on the Taliban under indirect coercion, Pakistan has opted for what is in fact a “lesser” threat.

Similarly, the ouster of the Taliban and the arrival in Afghanistan of India and the Northern Alliance now puts Pakistan in a nutcracker situation vis-à-vis India and elements within Afghanistan that are hostile to it. Indian activities in Afghanistan and in Central Asia are inimical to Pakistani interests and it is trying to encircle Pakistan (details of those activities fall outside the scope of this article).

But this is not all. India is also a close strategic ally of the US. There is a very strong India Caucus in the US Congress. The Indian diaspora is increasingly becoming a very effective lobby within the US and so on. In the region, India’s presence in Afghanistan has become a problem to the extent that General Stanley McChrystal, commander of US forces in Afghanistan, has referred to the India factor in his initial assessment paper as a negative impacting on the US ability to get Pakistan fully onboard.

Here again, like the Taliban threat, Pakistan’s traditional India threat is linked with the US presence in Afghanistan; not only that, the US presence in that country enhances Pakistan’s level of threat from India manifold.

So, it works like this. US alone = the biggest military threat to Pakistan (but the US doesn’t need to threaten Pakistan directly). US presence and its upshot, the Taliban threat and India threat (indirectly and directly) = US threat to Pakistan x by 2.

But as mentioned earlier, the US threat works primarily indirectly. If Pakistan does not fall in line and take steps that reduce its own strategic space in the region, the US can rely on India and also employ other levers of power: it controls most of the international financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund (Pakistan is a recipient of IMF funding to keep its economy afloat); bilaterally, while the internal threat continues to devastate Pakistan’s economy, the US is the only state that can give it cash and other handouts, and also get other states to do that, to prevent it from going under. Like Achilles, it thus tries to heal the wounds that its lance has inflicted and is inflicting. The US can also use multilateral forums like the United Nations to punish Pakistan etcetera (this, again, is a topic that needs separate treatment).

Given this, informed or otherwise, Pakistanis know where the real threat comes from. Most Pakistanis think, not without reason that Pakistan would be in a better position to deal with the US if it hadn’t placed itself so easily and cheaply in the US tent.

However, now that the hornets’ nest has been stirred up, there are no easy solutions and linear causality for Pakistan either. The state now has to fight the groups that are attacking its interests and will continue to do so even if the US were to remove itself from this region. There is thus need to think in the long term, and that requires conversion of Pakistani and US interests.

The problem is complicated by the US’ growing strategic relations with India. There is also the problem of a withdrawal timeframe from Afghanistan. Unless the US decides to effect a phased withdrawal from Afghanistan by involving Pakistan and working towards what is doable rather than what is desirable, the situation in the region would continue to go from bad to worse; that, in turn, could have a worsening impact on US-Pakistan relations.

The real issues that have soured relations between the US and Pakistan cannot be tackled through mere diplomatic charm offensives a la US Secretary of State’s recent visit and aid packages that ignore, while promising help, the growing threat to Pakistan’s internal social cohesion and its vital strategic interests in the region.

Pakistan and the US need some hard talk to sort things out. The opposition to the Kerry-Lugar Act is a good beginning. But Pakistan needs to do more.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby komal » 13 Nov 2009 08:22

Looks like recent blast was at an ISI building

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/blast_near_army_stadium_in_peshawar.php

At least seven people have been killed and over 30 injured in a blast in Pakistan's Peshawar on Friday.

A powerful bomb targeted the offices of Pakistan's main intelligence agency in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Friday, tearing down much of the building and causing several casualties.

The blast struck at the heart of the agency overseeing much of the anti-terror campaign in the border regions with Afghanistan, where al-Qaida and Taliban leaders are believed to be hiding out.

It was the latest in a string of attacks on security forces, civilian and Western targets since the government launched an offensive in mid-October against the Taliban's main stronghold in the border region of South Waziristan. Peshawar has seen at least four major attacks in the last month.

The blast destroyed much of the three-story building belonging to the Inter-Services Intelligence agency and many cars on the street outside.

The government has said the militant attacks will not dent the country's resolve to pursue the offensive in South Waziristan, where officials say the most deadly insurgent network in Pakistan is based.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Vivek_A » 13 Nov 2009 08:24

Such Gup


In Lahore, Mrs Clinton had a marathon interface with students at Government College University, which she dealt with gamely, no matter how provocative or asinine the questioning. This was followed by a select press briefing in a side room of the college. Before Mrs Clinton arrived, a high ranking police official stalked into the room and spontaneously launched into a diatribe against the “Americans who have taken over”. There was no preamble to his outburst, no pleasantries were exchanged with anyone in the room and without a care for Mrs Clinton’s colleagues who were there. The police official declared, “I have discovered today that we are not a sovereign nation. The Americans have made all their own security arrangements. We are not in the loop about any of Mrs Clinton’s movements. We were not consulted or informed”. The journalists asked the official to calm down. The Americans in the room remained expressionless. When the time came for Mrs Clinton to arrive, the official went and sat quietly in a corner. She came in, and just before the briefing began, a member of Mrs Clinton’s entourage asked the official to leave the room. He did so reluctantly. After the nearly two hour briefing was over, and as soon as the journalists stepped out of the room, they were accosted by the official, even before Mrs Clinton had left the premises. He demanded to know what had been discussed. He said he had been bombarded with calls “from the agencies” asking about the discussion, and to report back immediately. “These Americans debugged the room” protested the official as though bugging it was their right, and that the “the agencies” were hopping mad. None of the journalists answered the official’s questions.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Suppiah » 13 Nov 2009 08:28

This pakbarian jehadi animal is essentially begging uncle to let them 'have' Afghanistan. He claims Taliban are not a big threat yet says taking them on is desirable but not doable. The simple solution - of letting Afghans live in a peaceful democratic country without threats and intervention by Pakbarian animals - which is at the core of problem - does not present itself to a fanatic barbarian terrorist animal mind..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Kati » 13 Nov 2009 08:31

It's FRIDAY....

Pakistan’s Spy Agency Attacked in City of Peshawar
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:42 p.m. ET

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) -- Authorities say seven people have been killed and 35 wounded in a bomb blast outside the headquarters of Pakistan's spy agency in the northwest.

The attack Friday took place in the city of Peshawar.

A police officer stationed at the city's Lady Reading Hospital said seven bodies had been admitted along with 35 wounded.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) -- A powerful bomb targeted the offices of Pakistan's main spy agency in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Friday, tearing down much of the building and causing several casualties, witnesses said.

The blast struck at the heart of the agency overseeing much of the anti-terror campaign in the border regions with Afghanistan, where al-Qaida and Taliban leaders are believed to be hiding out.

It was the latest in a string of attacks on security forces, civilian and Western targets since the government launched an offensive in mid-October against the Taliban's main stronghold in the border region of South Waziristan.

An Associated Press reporter on the scene within minutes of the explosion saw at least eight dead or badly wounded bodies being taken away. The blast destroyed much of the three-story building belonging to the Inter-Services Intelligence agency and many cars on the street outside.

The reporter said it was the loudest explosion in recent years in the city, which is a militant hub and has seen at least four major attacks in the last month.

The government has said the militant attacks will not dent the country's resolve to pursue the offensive in South Waziristan, where officials say the most deadly insurgent network in Pakistan is based.


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