Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Charlie » 15 Nov 2009 13:15

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6917296.ece

SOME of Britain’s most dangerous Al-Qaeda leaders are promoting jihad from inside high-security prisons by smuggling out propaganda for the internet and finding recruits.

In an authoritative report, Quilliam, a think tank funded by the Home Office, claims “mismanagement” by the Prison Service is helping AlQaeda gain recruits and risks “strengthening jihadist movements”.


Brits love their Pakis... When people like Anjem Chaudary supports London Bombers live on TV and asks Buck Palace to be made a Mosque....then it is Kiss of Death to the Brits.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby santoshriyer » 15 Nov 2009 13:20

Paki dude Gilani has said that india involved in Baloch. In the same interview he said that composite dialogue required and then went on to say that war is not a solution.
Where does war come into play in all this, unless pakistan is planning for a major terror strike which will ensure indian retaliation.??? any thoughts please sridhar ji... as expressed by you the warning by titman gilani

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby mayo » 15 Nov 2009 13:53

Hamid Gul Interview (Afzar Mani Show) (Youtube upload date Mar 09 - Sorry if already posted)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUO95Tiz99o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfkKM5w ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEGPc_VAES8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0C--FQEuXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pgite8sN2c&NR=1

1. The guy brags that before any document is signed at RAW, ISI has access to it.
2. Claims 911 as internal job -- that's old news though. It is amazing how this guy continues to propagate this theory despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
3. Claims Pak accepted Kasab as being their national under unkil's pressure as US wanted to support congress in India.

I understand that this guy is infamous for his conspiracy theories but can there be a truth to (1)?

This guy seems to be susceptible to flattery and makes self-aggrandizing claims. Somehow reminded me of mushy's book where he was stoking his ego by reminiscing about his childhood quibbles.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Suppiah » 15 Nov 2009 13:53

Malayappan wrote:Although slightly OT, request Mods' indulgence (two reasons - Islamism thread is shaheedised, this is still 'somewhat' about Pakistan!)

- In a society where Islam is a religion, it remains an arrangement between Man and God, with no impact on other things of secular nature



Forgive my ignorance, but is there such a society? I mean if you ignore societies where majority is not Muslim? Turkey could have qualified as one until its recent takeover by Islamists. It is a bit like looking for a communist society with communism confined to politics and not seeking to influence arts, culture, education, religion, etc. You just cant find it - not even in Indian states where communism is ruling.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2009 14:44

Malayappan wrote:- In a society where Islam is a religion, it remains an arrangement between Man and God, with no impact on other things of secular nature

- In a society where Islam has become political (what we had referred to in that thread as Islamism), then the slide to Mullahcracy starts.


Islam operates at four levels, at a personal level (between Man/Woman and Allah), at a societal level, at a governance level and at a world level (Caliphate). Islam is incomplete without it being at Level 4. Pakistan has established quite a lead as it reached Level 3 a long time back and is now striving to establish, on behalf of the entire ummah, Level 4. That, in my opinion, is the difference between Pakistan and any other Islamic country. King Farouk of Egypt sensed it a long time back when he derisively mentioned that "Islam seemed to have been born on Aug. 14, 1947". The estrangement today between KSA and TSP may appear to be over TSP granting more hunting licenses to UAE for houbara hunting, but I feel that KSA is secretly worried about TSP usurping KSA's primacy in ummah matters. In 1999, a civilian Pakistani leader tried to become Emir-ul-Momineen in a peaceful and democratic way but was thwarted. The Pakistani jihadi Islamists are trying to do the same in the only way they know.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Patni » 15 Nov 2009 14:47

Pakistani Spy arrested at Delhi Airport, High Alert in Delhi and UP
Breaking News! A Pakistani spy in the mid-40s was arrested at the Indira Gandhi
International Airport in New Delhi a short while ago. Some sensitive documents and photographs were
seized from him. He was arrested with a fake passport. The spy, identified as Aamir Ali, had been
staying in Shahdara, New Delhi for the last six years.
According to intelligence sources, Aamir Ali had been tracking the activities of the Army personnel and
military installations in India. He had reportedly established his links in Western and Central Uttar
Pradesh. Police teams will be dispatched to several towns in Uttar Pradesh to probe his links.

Boss of spy ring arrested in Delhi
ust days ahead of the first anniversary of the 26/11 attack on Mumbai, Indian intelligence authorities on Sunday (November 15) arrested a Pakistani spy at the Indira Gandhi International Airport, New Delhi. "One Pakistani spy was arrested at IGI airport yesterday," Union Home Secretary G K Pillai said without giving out any further details.

However, highly placed sources in the government and the intelligence set up have told TIMES NOW that the Pakistani citizen in his mid-40s and had been sent by the government to conduct surveys across sensitive locations.

He was found to be carrying maps and photographs of defence and other sensitive installations in Central and Western UP. Sources believe this man to be a part of a larger spy ring and that he was operating in India for the last 5-6 years.

Teams from the Home Ministry are currently travelling to areas of Central and Western UP. Teams have been sent to Lucknow which boasts of a large cantonment area also, a team has been sent to Saharanpur, very close to the Narora Atomic Power Station. It is believed that the arrested spy was also a regular visitor to a [particular town in Eastern UP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Suppiah » 15 Nov 2009 16:10

This whole 'found with a map' reeks of wastage from a typical babu brain clogged for years with corruption, ineptitude and servitude. Even a stupid James Bond movie shows spies reading maps, memorising and destroying them. Who will walk around with them?!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Malayappan » 15 Nov 2009 16:54

Just as we thought things cannot get more open, we have this! A keeper. Good reference and citation value!

CIA says it gets its money's worth from Pakistani spy agency.

By Greg Miller, November 15, 2009, Los Angeles Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-cia-pakistan15-2009nov15,0,7760987,full.story

Some excerpts -
CIA has funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan's intelligence service since the Sept. 11 attacks, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency's annual budget, current and former U.S. officials say.
U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI's assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.
Despite deep misgivings about the ISI, the official said, "there was no other game in town."
"There really are two ISIs," the former CIA operative said. "On the counter-terrorism side, those guys were in lock-step with us," the former operative said. "And then there was the 'long-beard' side. Those are the ones who created the Taliban and are supporting groups like Haqqani."
"We would show up in someone's office, offer our thanks, and we would leave behind a briefcase full of $100 bills, sometimes totaling more than a million in a single transaction," Tenet wrote.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2009 17:52

Fantastic. The ISI keeps creating terrorists one after another and the CIA keeps paying millions of dollars to ISI officers for capturing them. Why should ISI feel compelled to stop this milking ? Truly, the ISI has the Americans by their unmentionables.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shravan » 15 Nov 2009 18:25

CIA even knew some of the names of the 9/11 hijackers in March 1999 but they were never tracked & they did not request that they be placed on the government's watch lists to keep them out of the United States until late August 2001... :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 15 Nov 2009 18:34

Pakistani journalist Mustafa Qadri attempts a piskological analyses of why citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are unable to accept that terrorist violence being committed by in their own country is by their own fellow citizens:

Pakistan's conspiracy cottage industry

Blame for the recent spate of bombings is being laid at the door of foreign powers by many ordinary Pakistanis. Why?

Mustafa Qadri
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 15 November 2009 12.00 GMT

Although the Taliban have openly claimed responsibility for the recent epidemic of suicide bombings against civilian targets in Peshawar and Islamabad, many Pakistanis appear convinced that the real culprits are India or the United States.

"These are India's agents," an anti-narcotics bureaucrat tells me in Islamabad with a confident grin. With its operatives active in a string of Indian consulates along the Pak-Afghan border, so goes the popular claim, they direct New Delhi's latest attempt to topple the Islamic Republic. It is a common refrain in Pakistan. In fact, so common, that almost everyone I venture to ask blames the Indians, or Americans, or foreigners for the terrorism. ……………………………

The Guardian

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shiv » 15 Nov 2009 19:30

arun wrote:Pakistani journalist Mustafa Qadri attempts a piskological analyses of why citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are unable to accept that terrorist violence being committed by in their own country is by their own fellow citizens:

Pakistan's conspiracy cottage industry

The Guardian


Of course the reason for Paki denial is cognitive dissonance. The facts don't fit in with what you have been taught by indoctrination, so you get angry and try and hold on to what you were taught.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby tarun » 15 Nov 2009 19:53

Suppiah wrote:This whole 'found with a map' reeks of wastage from a typical babu brain clogged for years with corruption, ineptitude and servitude. Even a stupid James Bond movie shows spies reading maps, memorising and destroying them. Who will walk around with them?!

Two words Internet, Encryption.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 15 Nov 2009 19:56

X Posted.

Pakistan’s terrorist supporting ways spreads beyond the traditional support by way, among others, of providing manpower for global Sunni Islamic terrorism.

Yemen now claims that Pakistani are providing manpower for the terrorism by the Shia / Shiite Houthi’s in Northern Yemen:

Pakistani fighters support Houthis

15/11/2009
Sana'a, NewsYemen

Yemen's Houthi rebels have Pakistani fighters in their ranks, press reports revealed Sunday, as Saudi Arabia arrested a sorcerer on its border with Yemen attempting to plant magic spells in the conflict zone in support of the rebel group.

Pakistani fighters are helping the Houthi rebels with their conflict against Saudi Arabia, Al Arabiya TV reported, quoting Yemen's Foreign Minister Abu Bakr al-Qirbi as saying: "The way the Houthi militias operate and the amount of money they spend on the conflict make the involvement of foreign powers almost a certainty."

“The Yemeni intelligence is investigating the involvement of external parties in supporting the Houthi insurgency,” al-Qirbi said. “This is a conspiracy to destroy Yemen and the Houthis will pay dearly for that.” .............................

Al Arabiya via News Yemen

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby anupmisra » 15 Nov 2009 20:43

Nayak wrote:Why Pakistan is winning ITS war against the Taliban
By David Rose



The porki deception has been bought; hook line and sinker.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Avinash R » 15 Nov 2009 20:53

arun wrote:X Posted.

Pakistan’s terrorist supporting ways spreads beyond the traditional support by way, among others, of providing manpower for global Sunni Islamic terrorism.

Yemen now claims that Pakistani are providing manpower for the terrorism by the Shia / Shiite Houthi’s in Northern Yemen:

Pakistani fighters support Houthis

15/11/2009
Sana'a, NewsYemen

Pakistani fighters are helping the Houthi rebels with their conflict against Saudi Arabia, Al Arabiya TV reported, quoting Yemen's Foreign Minister Abu Bakr al-Qirbi as saying: "The way the Houthi militias operate and the amount of money they spend on the conflict make the involvement of foreign powers almost a certainty."

Al Arabiya via News Yemen


Thanks for this post. This is the usual pakistani way of expressing gratitude by killing their donors.
After the french, american, chinese and iranian now saudi arabia joins the list of "friends of pakistan" who have been attacked by pakistanis.
Saudis must be ruing their decision to bankroll the pakistani nuclear bomb project.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby svinayak » 15 Nov 2009 21:03

arun wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:Sounds very Ceaucescu.

Meanwhile, Pakistani music popstars write songs condemning West and not Taliban:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/ ... istan-pop/

Be sure to watch the video embedded in the article.

The video images of the songs look like Nazi symbols and extreme ideology
It shows that the country is a Nazi country.

The mentality has been studied and used by the western countries to their advantage

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Nov 2009 23:08

arun wrote:X Posted.

Pakistan’s terrorist supporting ways spreads beyond the traditional support by way, among others, of providing manpower for global Sunni Islamic terrorism.

Yemen now claims that Pakistani are providing manpower for the terrorism by the Shia / Shiite Houthi’s in Northern Yemen:


Pakistan supporting Shia terrorism would be something new, isn't it? I mean, ISI sponsored groups are busy targetting Shia within Pakistan. I don't trust the Yemeni report.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby jrjrao » 15 Nov 2009 23:45

Review in the WSJ of the upcoming program on Thursday on HBO:

Dial Mumbai for Murder
By DOROTHY RABINOWITZ
The 10 young Pakistani men who reached Mumbai in a fishing boat last Nov. 26, and proceeded, methodically, on their mission of mass murder and the destruction of that Indian city's most famous landmarks, had been told the world would remember them.

As it turned out, it was the one promise made by their handler—safe in Pakistan as he directed them, via cellphone, while they killed 170 people and wounded more than 300—that they could count on. They would be remembered—not, of course, because of their great deeds this day, or because they were warriors whom God had chosen for the struggle between Islam and nonbelievers, as their handler is regularly heard telling them, but because of the extraordinary circumstances that made it possible to overhear their conversations during every step of their blood-drenched rampage. It's that fact that distinguishes "Terror in Mumbai" (Thursday, 8-9:05 p.m. EST, on HBO) from every other film on terrorism ever made: the thing that accounts for the singular, soul-chilling intimacy of its picture of the youthful killers going about their work, and of the silken-voiced handler urging them on with assurances that they are now "very close to heaven." "Inshallah" these enlistees in Lashkar-e-Taiba, or the Army of the Righteous, prayerfully reply, if ever more uncertainly.


Link

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Avinash R » 15 Nov 2009 23:50

A_Gupta wrote:
arun wrote:X Posted.

Pakistan’s terrorist supporting ways spreads beyond the traditional support by way, among others, of providing manpower for global Sunni Islamic terrorism.

Yemen now claims that Pakistani are providing manpower for the terrorism by the Shia / Shiite Houthi’s in Northern Yemen:


Pakistan supporting Shia terrorism would be something new, isn't it? I mean, ISI sponsored groups are busy targetting Shia within Pakistan. I don't trust the Yemeni report.


AQKhan proliferated nuke tech to shia iran and had been cleared at the highest levels which includes pakistan army and isi to carry out such deal. Such inter-religious differences are forgotten when the price is right. Similar thing might be happening here. Joining hands with shias in yemen to attack sunni saudi and yemen govt and to wash these sins coming home and finishing off the rest of the shias in pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Gagan » 16 Nov 2009 01:05

X post:Those people who are wondering what is the NIA, which is conducting raids in india in response to this case: Most of this info is from Wikipedia.

National Investigation Agency (NIA) is a new central agency approved by GoI to combat terror in India. This agency is empowered to deal with terror related crimes across states without special permission from the states. The National Investigation Agency Bill 2008 to create the agency was moved in Parliament by Union Home Minister on 16 December 2008

Radha Vinod Raju, Special Director General of Police in Jammu and Kashmir, is the Director General. He was previously involved in several high profile cases like the Rajiv Gandhi Assasination. He has served with the CBI in the past.

Some of its salient features are:
Some of the salient features of NIA are-
*The Bill for constitution of the National Investigation Agency (NIA) to be applicable to whole of India, citizens of India outside India and persons on ships and aircraft registered in India.
*Officers of the NIA to have all powers, privileges and liabilities which the police officers have in connection with investigation of any offence.
*The police officer in charge of a police station on receipt of the report of the offence shall forward it to the state government which in turn will send it to the Centre.
*If the Centre feels the offence is terror related, it shall direct the NIA for investigation.
*Provision for transfer of investigation and trial of offences to state government with Centre's prior approval.
*NIA may investigate other offences connected with terror-related offences.
*A state government shall extend all assistance to NIA for investigation of terror-related offences.
*Provisions of the Act with regard to investigation shall not affect powers of the state government to investigate and prosecute any terror crime or other offences.
*The Centre shall constitute special courts for trial of terror-related offences.
*Special Courts may sit at any place for any of its proceedings.
*For speedy and fair trial, the Supreme Court may transfer any case pending with the special court to another special court in the same state or any other state, and the High Court may transfer such cases to any other special court within the state.
*Offences punishable with imprisonment for less than three years may be tried summarily.
*Bill for federal agency tabled in Lok Sabha
*Special court to have all powers of the court of sessions under CrPC for trial of any offence under the Act.

{Here is where it gets interesting}
*Proceedings to be held 'in camera' if special court deems it necessary.
*Trial to be held on day-to-day basis on all working days and to have precedence over the trial of other offences.
*State governments empowered to constitute one or more special courts.
*No appeal shall be entertained after the expiry of 90 days. Highlights of Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment Bill, 2008.

{Paklurkers: Here is where it gets really really interesting}
*Use of bombs, dynamite, poisons or noxious gases, biological radioactive nuclear substances are terror act.
*Aiding, abetting or committing a terrorist act shall be punishable with imprisonment up to ten years.
*Funding terror activities, organising training camps and recruiting persons for committing terror acts shall be punishable with at least five years' imprisonment.
*Detention of accused up to 180 days if investigation not completed.
*No bail shall be granted if accused is not an Indian citizen and has entered the country unauthorisedly.
*No accused, if in custody, to be released on bail or on his own bond.
*Court shall presume, unless contrary is shown, that accused has committed offence. :eek:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby jamwal » 16 Nov 2009 01:24

Gagan wrote:*Court shall presume, unless contrary is shown, that accused has committed offence.


Interesting. What about their liaisons with central agancies like RAW, IB etc ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 02:07

Well put Malayappan.

The crucial distinction is whether Islamification is a state driven phenomenon, or part of an internal cultural debate within society.

In its quest for unity and strength the Pakistani state has driven the process, and its depended on non-state actors to create that pressure for Islamification in politically deniable ways, and attack the state's internal and external enemies.

Now its gotten to the point where those actors are ready to attack the Pakistani state because the state is not Islamic enough. The Pakistani Army still isn't willing to take responsibility for the situation, or change direction, even out of self-preservation.

They're still convinced that they can make it work - they think that they're winning in Afghanistan with the Taliban, that the Army is still running the show, and that the money from abroad is still coming in. Its what the forum likes to call the PA's 'tactical brilliance'.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Charlie » 16 Nov 2009 02:14

Use of bombs, dynamite, poisons or noxious gases, biological radioactive nuclear substances are terror act.
*Aiding, abetting or committing a terrorist act shall be punishable with imprisonment up to ten years.
*Funding terror activities, organising training camps and recruiting persons for committing terror acts shall be punishable with at least five years' imprisonment.
*Detention of accused up to 180 days if investigation not completed.
*No bail shall be granted if accused is not an Indian citizen and has entered the country unauthorisedly.
*No accused, if in custody, to be released on bail or on his own bond.
*Court shall presume, unless contrary is shown, that accused has committed offence.


The important thing is does it have the ability to actively penetrate Terror circles in India with informers/under cover officers. Does the Top babus at NIA have the ability to make all out efforts to make NIA efficient with available resource.

I am amazed at FBI's resourcefulness and success rate in having all Pakis under surveillance in USA. They even had a file on Nidal Hassan though they didnt take any action. Though Muslims in USA are far less in number and every Muslim in USA ca be tracked electronically by his activities on Internet, still thats an amazing piece of efficiency.
Last edited by SSridhar on 16 Nov 2009 09:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Next time use of derogatory slang will result in warning

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Nov 2009 03:29

Johann wrote:Now its gotten to the point where those actors are ready to attack the Pakistani state because the state is not Islamic enough. The Pakistani Army still isn't willing to take responsibility for the situation, or change direction, even out of self-preservation.


The army has a tiger by the tail?
But then sometimes I think the P. Army really wants to morph into that tiger, and all the else is a facade to keep American support.

(American commentators are saying the US should not support Karzai because he is corrupt. But he is probably innocent as a newborn lamb compared to the Pakistani Army and the ISI that the US explicitly and implicitly supports.)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shyamd » 16 Nov 2009 05:08

South Waziristan Situation Report. Courtesy Mandeep Singh Bajwa
#

Orbat Pakistan has committed 7, 9, 14, 17, 23, and 40 Divisions to the operations. 17 Division is in Swat, where operations continue. 14 is in Dera Ismail Khan. 23 is in Kohat, 7, 9, and 40 are directly committed. Brigades are all mixed up, so do not assume because a particular division is part of the operations that it has its own brigades.
#

Progress Very slow on all three axes. The operation will continue into the hard winter, at least till December. In January Pakistan may use the excuse of heavy snow to declare victory and pull back. What happens in the spring depends on many factors which we'll have to discuss another day.
#

Casualties ~100 KIA on both sides.
#

The Mesuds and ISI The Mesuds have declared war on the ISI because they feel betrayed. The bloodletting and attempts on senior officers are going to continue unless Mesuds and ISI make-up. This thing has become personal as far as the Mesuds are concerned.
#

Corps Commanders held their 123rd conference this past Wednesday discussed the dismal state of the insurgency in Kashmir. The Corps Commanders used to meet every quarter. Now they meet every month. It appears that meetings are now held in different venues to maintain security.
#

ISI's new strategy against India is two-fold. First, it is going to activate previously low priority fronts: Jammu, Kargil, Kishtwar, Bhaderwah. The last is in Central Kashmir. The Pakistanis are not giving up on Kashmir. Every stone thrown at a policeman and every demonstration is considered a success.
#

In Editor's opinion. you can't set the bar for success any lower. Not only is Pakistan wasting its own time, it is breaking its pledges to the US to cease operation in J and K. Anyway, this is for the US and the Pakistanis to sort out. India can play this game for the next 200 years if neccessary.
#

Second, ISI is attempting linkups with Indian Maoists. The Maoists are anti-religion, but they do need arms badly, and while Pakistan has had no success as yet, it may be only a matter of time before they do manage some link-ups, particularly as India is starting to crack down on China-sponsored supplies through Nepal and Mynamar.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 05:48

A_Gupta wrote:
Johann wrote:Now its gotten to the point where those actors are ready to attack the Pakistani state because the state is not Islamic enough. The Pakistani Army still isn't willing to take responsibility for the situation, or change direction, even out of self-preservation.


The army has a tiger by the tail?
But then sometimes I think the P. Army really wants to morph into that tiger, and all the else is a facade to keep American support.


The PA wants it both ways - to support and employ extremism, while being paid money to fight it.

The groups of jihadis that are attacking the PA lethally resent being occasionally sold out by the PA in order to maintain its relationship with the US.

What makes it a civil war is that these angry jihadis have many friends and supporters within the PA's officer ranks.

Something is going to break - either the PA's cohesion, or Pakistan's relationship with the US.

Given the massive growth of Anti-American feeling in Pakistan, and the violence of the PA's current internal contradictions, my money is that the PA is going to save itself and its place in the power structure in coming years by capitalising on that popular hatred and projecting itself as Pakistan's shield from America. I've said this here for several years now, and I think its worth repeating - there is a rupture coming.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 16 Nov 2009 06:15

Gagan,

That NIA related info isa goldmine. Finally, desi agencies have gotten the legal teeth they need to deal with pakscum.

I've said this here for several years now, and I think its worth repeating - there is a rupture coming.


I fear this long-awaited ruprture shall forever be coming only. This movie has seen many remakes, sequels, dubbings and drubbings - but always avoids reaching climax only.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Kati » 16 Nov 2009 06:37

Charlie wrote:
Use of bombs, dynamite, poisons or noxious gases, biological radioactive nuclear substances are terror act.
*Aiding, abetting or committing a terrorist act shall be punishable with imprisonment up to ten years.
*Funding terror activities, organising training camps and recruiting persons for committing terror acts shall be punishable with at least five years' imprisonment.
*Detention of accused up to 180 days if investigation not completed.
*No bail shall be granted if accused is not an Indian citizen and has entered the country unauthorisedly.
*No accused, if in custody, to be released on bail or on his own bond.
*Court shall presume, unless contrary is shown, that accused has committed offence.


The important thing is does it have the ability to actively penetrate Terror circles in India with informers/under cover officers. Does the Top babus at NIA have the ability to make all out efforts to make NIA efficient with available resource.

I am amazed at FBI's resourcefulness and success rate in having all Pakis under surveillance in USA. They even had a file on Nidal Hassan though they didnt take any action. Though Muslims in USA are far less in number and every Muslim in USA ca be tracked electronically by his activities on Internet, still thats an amazing piece of efficiency.


Actually, this process started right after 9-11. Immediately after 9-11, Muslims in Detroit area complained that their conversations were monitored from flying aircrafts hovering all the time. Anyway, things got more organized afterwards. The entire country has been divided in a grid system, and specif teams were assigned certain number of people to monitor constantly or randomly. Suddenly one noticed that a lot of Muslim professionals, who apparently had noting to do (!) with terrorism, getting tangled up with minor offences - ranging from insurance fraud to dubious charitable contributions. Actually Bush admin was pretty gung-ho about the whole process. people with minor offences were hauled up, and given the option of either spying on fellow Muslims or get thrown into prison. many cooperated. That also helped several successes against terror(?) cells in the US and with ties to Europe. 'Lacawana 6', 'LeT sleeper cell in Virginia', etc. are just some of the examples.
Last edited by SSridhar on 16 Nov 2009 09:16, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Be mindful of language used.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Kati » 16 Nov 2009 06:42

^^^^^
Oh, BTW, taking a cue from aunty, uncle has hired a good number of Muslim women, many pakis, to spy on their biraders.
Last edited by SSridhar on 16 Nov 2009 09:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Improper slang was corrected. Next time, it will result in warning. Also, avoid BENIS influence here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Gus » 16 Nov 2009 07:05

I remember reading something about many pakis making a run across border to Canada soon after 911 - fearing deportation/retaliation. They knew their kind did 911.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Nov 2009 07:12

There is no rupture coming.

Pakistanis contrive just the right amount of distaste while taking the dollars with both hands whilst the Americans show just the right amount of outrage to enable the Pakistan army to plausible in their reasons for killing fellow Muslims.


It is the old buyer seller relationship. Pakistan deals in blood, historically. So what if this time around it is green

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Vivek_A » 16 Nov 2009 07:15

Kati wrote:^^^^^
Oh, BTW, taking a cue from aunty, uncle has hired a good number of musla women, many pakis, to spy on their biraders.



Admins: It's your prerogative to control the content here....but...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 07:19

sanjaykumar wrote:There is no rupture coming.

Pakistanis contrive just the right amount of distaste while taking the dollars with both hands whilst the Americans show just the right amount of outrage to enable the Pakistan army to plausible in their reasons for killing fellow Muslims.


It is the old buyer seller relationship. Pakistan deals in blood, historically. So what if this time around it is green


When in its history have you had so many PA officers involved in killing other PA officers?

How long can any military discipline survive that kind of fraternal strife?

How many options does the PA have in ending that strife?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 16 Nov 2009 07:21

A_Gupta wrote:
arun wrote:X Posted.

Pakistan’s terrorist supporting ways spreads beyond the traditional support by way, among others, of providing manpower for global Sunni Islamic terrorism.

Yemen now claims that Pakistani are providing manpower for the terrorism by the Shia / Shiite Houthi’s in Northern Yemen:


Pakistan supporting Shia terrorism would be something new, isn't it? I mean, ISI sponsored groups are busy targetting Shia within Pakistan. I don't trust the Yemeni report.


It certainly is a new phenomenon.

Hitherto Pakistani manpower support was undoubtedly restricted, on the manpower front, to providing manpower for Sunni Islamic Terrorism. However given the Pakistani national penchant for indulging in acts of terrorism around the world, a national predilection that the ISI has effectively tapped into, it would not be prudent to reject the report from Yemen of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan now providing manpower for Shia / Shiite Islamic Terrorism in Northern Yemen, out of hand.

Meanwhile the original news item from Dubai’s Al Arabiya which was reproduced in the News Yemen article posted by me:

Pakistanis fighting in Yemen with Houthis: report

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Nov 2009 07:37

When in its history have you had so many PA officers involved in killing other PA officers?


In fact there have been only a few PA middle level officers killed and no major generals/lt generals that I recall. None who were perhaps not due for termination for other reasons (cf Naipaul's brother-in-law).

Of course East Pakistan and the wholesale massacre of Pakistani officers is a well established precedent for a little fraternal cleansing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 16 Nov 2009 07:54

X Posted.

Global media watchdog Reporters Sans Frontières (RSF) is reporting that two Pakistani journalists who assisted in getting background information for establishing the fact, despite Pakistani denials, that Ajmal Kasab, who is currently on trial for the Mumbai terrorist attack, was a Pakistani national, have been detained for “theft and fraud”.

RSF is in no doubt that the arrest of the two Journalists has more to do with the breaking of Ajmal Kasab’s Pakistani origin than anything else:

Two journalists held after helping media probe Mumbai attacker’s background

Published on 13 November 2009

Two Pakistani journalists, Rab Nawaz Joya and Javed Kanwal Chandor, have been held since 10 November in a police station in Okara district, in the northeastern province of Punjab. Although charged with theft and fraud, they were arrested for helping Pakistani and international news media get background information about Ajmal Kasab, a participant in the November 2008 terrorist attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai ……………………

“It is intolerable that two Pakistani journalists are being treated like criminals for helping to establish the truth about the only surviving member of the Mumbai attackers commando,” Reporters Without Borders said. “This information may have been embarrassing for the Pakistani authorities, but it is unacceptable that these two reporters are being held just for doing their duty as journalists.”

The press freedom organisation added: “The absurd charges brought against them fail to conceal the real motive for their arrest. We call for them to be freed without delay and for all the charges to be dropped.” …………………..


RSF

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Gagan » 16 Nov 2009 08:05

Hari Seldon wrote:Gagan,

That NIA related info isa goldmine.

Saar,
One has to thank the guy(s) who created the Wiki page for this. Thanks to their untiring efforts that we have this info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Investigating_Agency

My Sheshtang Namaskar to them

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby surinder » 16 Nov 2009 08:19

Malayappan,

Well said. There does not exist a single society that has successfully kept its local culture intact for too long in the face being islamiced. In almost all cases, outsiders get a false sense of confidence that this particular society will not degenerate into an virulent "arabized" islamic society. Every islamic society that you see now that is considered "beyond hope", was at one point a beacon of hope & liberality. Every society that is a beacon of hope now, will degenerate into virulent islam.

The Pakjabis not too long ago were liberal & rooted in Heer-Ranjha culture. There has not been a single Islamic society that has been able to resist the complete base Islamism for eternity.

Why hope against hope.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Anujan » 16 Nov 2009 08:23

IED Mubarak in P'shawar budhber Bolis station


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