Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

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mayo
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby mayo » 22 Nov 2009 06:09

This is very disturbing and depressing

dnivas wrote:
Charlie wrote:Have you guys read the 5 part articles abt RAW's internal ditherings by V Sudarshan on

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?

Title:- MK Narayanan’s new bête noire: P Chidambaram

I tried to post the direct link but somehow its nt working.

Its nothing much one faction leaking info against Mk Narayanans faction. Even after so many set backs like the Mumbai attacks, RAW is still the quintessential Babudom where corruption, nepotism and unpardonable inefficiency run rampant.


Is this the direct link?

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=MK+Narayanan%E2%80%99s+new+b%C3%AAte+noire:+P+Chidambaram&artid=umOpexDWK6Q=&SectionID=b7ziAYMenjw=&MainSectionID=b7ziAYMenjw=&SEO=M+K+Narayanan,+P+Chidambaram,+Shivraj+Patil,+Sai+B&SectionName=pWehHe7IsSU=

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Gagan » 22 Nov 2009 06:44

^^^
Specially interesting are the links to Sonia Maino in the comments section.
Posted by one N krishna there.
BCCI CONSTITUTED INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL CRIME ON A MASSIVE AND GLOBAL SCALE, Read the US Senate reports. [url]fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/01exec.htm[/url] ,
Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi Are the CIA Agents of Usa. , bit.ly/vA4yV Link ,
U.S. Senate Report on BCCI . bit.ly/46d7BW Link

Antonia Maino alias Sonia was working in London between 1963 to 1967 in UK with a Paki ISI operative Salman Tassir who had an office in Dubai as well. KGB had deposited US $2 billion (Rs 9400 Crores) in a Swiss bank in 1985 for Sonia as was reported in the Swiss mag.Schweitzer Illustrierte. KGB had promoted the marriagte of Sonia with Rajiv. The KGB, had bribed communists, Indira, ministers, 30 MPs,10 newspapers in India.
Do You Know Your Sonia, bit.ly/8KLYN Link ,
The Book of Vasili Mitrokhin Archive II and the KGB Agents in India.. bit.ly/GQj4R Link ,
Edvige Antonia Albina Maino Alias Sonia Gandhi. . bit.ly/E4ViT, Link
Pope Planted Sonia Khan in India,. bit.ly/Olsr9 Link


Frankly I don't know what to make of it. :shock: Is it for real. i have heard some of these as whispers though.

PS: The "bit.ly/xxxx are url links. You can copy and paste them into a browser or click on the "Link" posted after that.
Last edited by Gagan on 22 Nov 2009 06:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Jarita » 22 Nov 2009 06:51

I mentioned this in another thread. Someone called nkrishna keeps putting this worrisome comments and they get removed very quickly.
Maybe we should capture his/her comments

Chawla was adversely commented for his emergency excesses by commission and should not have been appointed in the first place. At the time of appointment media has pointed out that Chawla as CE can favour congress because of his track record. Also there was the issue of voting by Sonia while being a citizen of Italy on records and anytime Sonia could be put in jail if a CE acts in future. Sonia married Rajiv in 1968. Indian citizenship applied 15 years later on 7-4-83. Citizenship granted on 30-4-83. Yet Sonia was a voter in 1980, at serial number 388 in polling station 145 of the New Delhi constituency while a citizen of Italy. In 1982, Sonia’s name was deleted and reinstated in 1983 even though the qualifying date for registering as a voter was January 1 that year. An impartial EC can rake up the case of Sonia being a voter in 1980. Sonia is known to have lied about her qualification and there are other cases pending in the courts. Pliable EC is essential for the congress.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:39:00 AM Antique smuggling and money laundering by Sonia with LTTE help was going on since 1984. Quattrocchi,who arranged the marriage of Priyanka was wanted in Bofors, was buying arms from Phuket, Thailand for LTTE. Rajiv killing by LTTE if probed further by CBI-led MDMA, of Jain Commission would have revealed the conspiracy with LTTE in the assassination of Rajiv killing. Sonia systematically plundered and exported the ancient treasures of India, especially temple sculptures of Tamil Nadu, Andhra, Orissa and Madhya Pradesh, Mughal paintings and precious gems in Indian Museums, all protected and banned from export under the Antiquities and Art Treasures Act, 1972 and this is one reason why she is putting Chawla as an EC and christians as IGs in various states.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:35:00 AM On 1-8-02, smuggling of India’s antique artifacts by Sonia Gandhi was brought up in the Indian Parliament by a Samata Party member. Many Indians have visited Italy and had seen the shops owned by Sonia Gandhi, alias Antonia Maino. . This has never been a secret. There is an antique store called Ganapathi in Orbassano, Italy, Sonia's native place. The shop is owned by her relatives. Her smuggling activities began during Indira Gandhi's premiership when Sonia was only Mrs Rajiv Gandhi. Sonia Gandhi an illiterate housemaid coming from a poor Italian mason’s family, money making was the first criteria, when she married Rajiv. She never had education, but had herself certified as an art expert, which gave her the opportunity to certify Indian artifacts, as to which were museum pieces and which were not. Election Commissioner Navin Chawla’s wife Rupika Chawla not only helped Sonia, but has even supplied Indian antiques to Sonia for smuggling in to Italy.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:33:00 AM Archbishop Paul Casimir Marcinkus alias Paul the Gorilla Marcinkus, planted Edvige Antonia Albina Maino in India.She was presented in front of Rajiv Gandhi, while she was working as a baby sitter/barmaid, in Cambridge.She later worked in London with Pakistan’s ISI operative Salman Tassir. Edvige Antonia Albina Maino is now known as Sonia Gandhi, and Sonia is not a legal name. Edvige Antonia Albina Maino was born on 9 December 1946, in Orbassano, Italy and she was also born on 9 December 1946 in Lusiana, Veneto, Italy. Everything about this Italian christian spy who was planted in India is suspect and fictitious. She installed Manmohan Singh as PM. He has permitted the opening of the Paki bank BCCI in 1983 while he was RBI governor. BCCI was a CIA ISI outfit. fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/24appendic.htm fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/11intel.htm fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/ fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/05foreign.htm fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:20:00 AM Russian government confirmed the bribe to Rajiv Gandhi and Sonia Gandi. Russian spokesperson defended such bribe to Sonia Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi as necessary in Soviet ideological interest saying that part of the funds were for Antonia Maino family and part to fund elections of Congress party loyal candidates. Times of India dated 27-6-1992 reported that Rajiv Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi received bribe from KGB of USSR. KGB Chief V.Chebrikov’s secret letter to the Central Committee of Communist Party of Soviet Union regarding payment to Rajiv Gandhi’s family is public after the disintegration of Soviet Union 1991 to 16 countries. Upon Dr. Manmohan Singh's government taking office, Russia called back it's career diplomat Ambassador in New Delhi and immediately posted in his place, as the new Ambassador, a person who was the KGB station chief in New Delhi during the 1970s.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:17:00 AM Rajiv Gandhi was paid by the KGB of Soviet Union kickbacks of about $2 billion in numbered Swiss bank accounts. Sonia inherited this upon the assassination.of Rajiv Gandhi. This is stated in the the book ‘The State Within a State: THE KGB By Ms.Yevgenia Albats. Dr. Yevgenia Albats, Ph.D [Harvard], is a noted Russian scholar and journalist, and was a member of the KGB Commission set up by President Yeltsin in August 1991. She was privy to the Soviet intelligence files that documented these deals and KGB facilitation of the same. In her book—"The State Within a State: The KGB in the Soviet Union", she even gives the reference numbers of such intelligence files. Dr.Subramanian Swamy’s letter to Director, CBI dated, May 23, 2003 containing references to Intelligence Files relating to receipt of funds from KGB as quoted in Ms.Yevgenia Albats’s book “The State Within a State: The KGB”
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:15:00 AM Sindona was responsible for Franklin National Bank collapse. He was found guilty in 1980 on 65 counts, misappropriation of $45 million and sentenced to 25 years in USA. Later he was extradited to Italy and jailed for life for bank fraud and murder of Giorgio Ambrosoli. From jail Sindona started blackmailing all his political contacts to get out of jail. Sindona accused the Vatican of planting Sonia Gandhi in India and threatened to spill the details. Sindona was silenced by the former PM Giulio Andreotti who arranged the cyanide poisoning of Shark Sindona on 18-3-1986 in his coffee.in his prison cell. In 1986, at a time when when Marcinkus could not set foot in Italy or USA as both Italian police and US justice department were looking for him, Marcinkus was a state guest at 10 Janpath by Sonia. Paul Marcinkus brought the good news that Shark sindona is no more a threat to Sonia Gandhi and that there will be no more stories of Sonia Gandhi planting in India by Rome.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:13:00 AM Marcinkus was indicted by the Italian government and this decision was backed up by the Italian Supreme Court. Vatican removed him as head of the Vatican Bank and demoted to the level of a lay priest. The archbishop had ties with Michele Sindona, a mafioso, who paid good donations to the Nixon election fund. The Italian Masonic Lodge P2 provided a means of furnishing anti-Communist institutions all over the world with both Vatican and CIA funds. Calvi who was found hanging under Blackfriars Bridge in London in 1982 personally had arranged the transfer of $20 million of Vatican money to Solidarity in Poland out of the $100 million sent to Poland by Vatican. Michele Sindona was P2’s financier. He was also Vatican’s investment counselor. Sindona distributed CIA funds to its agents worldwide. The archbishop was investigated by the Organised Crime office of the US Justice Department after they found a request for $950 million of counterfeit bonds made on Vatican notepaper.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:11:00 AM Vatican was involved in money laundering with the Mafia. P2 Masonic Lodge corruption was revealed when several Italian and French publications disclosed how more than 150 high-level Catholic priests, bishops, and cardinals were practicing members of Freemasonry, many of whom were tagged as being Satanists. Pope John Paul I was killed after serving only 33 days in office as he wanted to clean up the Vatican Bank as well as expose the Masonic involvement of many high-level bishops and cardinals. Archbishop Paul Marcinkus was given a clean slate and protection from the next Pope John Paul II. Archbishop Marcinkus was also a CIA / Nazi spy who worked underground in Poland to sell out his people, along with liberal priests who were sent to concentration camps and killed. Paul Marcinkus was best known for his involvement in the Banco Ambrosiano scandal, a banking crash that cost the Vatican $700 million and untold damage to its prestige and the Indian suffering from its plant Sonia.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:04:00 AM Marcinkus was member of Propaganda Due or P2. P2 is a Masonic organization and is a secret sect that had 953 persons from the top echelons of Italy and a state within a state. Its members included Marcinkus, future PM silvio Berlusconi, heads of of all three Italian intelligence services etc. P2 was sponsored by KGB with an aim to destablizing Italy and the world. The P2 was more than a subversive political organization and was a kind of full-service international organization influencing everything from arms sales to purchases of crude oil to planting persons in powerful families all over the world. P2 is so secret and was run like Al Qaeda that even its own members did not know who belonged to it. During the P2 Lodge and the Vatican Banking Scandal, CIA through its priest 'assets' in Vatican, had placed six bugging devices in the Secretariat of State, the Vatican Bank and the Apostolic Palace, where the Pope actually lived and worked.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:02:00 AM Sonia Gandhi’s goondas physically thrown out the previous congress president and occupied the chair. Sonia has no respect for any democratic norms and that is why she appointed emergency tainted Chawla as the EC. The most reverend archbishop of Rome Paul Marcinkus, who was close to Pope Paul VI and president of the Pope’s bank IOR for 18 years, planted Sonia Gandhi in India. Gorilla Marcinkus through his mobsters kidnapped a15 year old girl Emanuela Orlandi on 22-6-1983, killed her and thrown her body in to a cement mixer. Marcinkus used to enjoy young girls in his flat in Via Porta Angelica and used to receive bags of drug money. Under Marcinkus, the Vatican Bank was in to drug money laundering, terrorist funding along with Sicilian Mafia lord Michele the Shark sindona and Banco Ambrosiano's chairman, Roberto Calvi.In 1982 Marcinkus was implicated in Banco Ambrosiano collapse, in the murder of its President,Roberto Calvi, who was killed and hung under Blackfriars Bridge in London.
By n.krishna
11/22/2009 4:00:00 AM

Suppiah
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Suppiah » 22 Nov 2009 07:05

Guys, this is a follow-up to the earlier post that 'classified' Pakistanis into various categories. We at BRF should, IMHO, seriously advocate a six step action plan for humanity to deal with Pakistan. India was the first, but today no civilised society anywhere in the world is safe from Pakistani sponsored and inspired fanatic barbarianism and terrorism. Business as usual just does not work any more. The jehadis will carry on with their work and the fence sitters enjoy the benefits of the so-called jehad, issuing meaningless statements of 'we are a religion of peace' even as innocent people are killed each day. The fence sitters need to be kicked into action, if they exist. If they don't exist or if they are not a critical mass, the whole concept of collateral damage should be looked at afresh with an open mind.

The world has the means to deal with Pakistan, but chooses not to. The day it may be left with no other choice is not far off. As a forum that is always ahead of the times, we need to start pressing for the following action plan. While none of us, including myself are under the illusion that this plan could be adopted today or tomorrow, we owe it to ourselves and to humanity to push for it or something of this sort.

Each step should be active for a maximum period of one month and if no satisfactory results are obtained, the next step should be activated without any further discussions or warning.

The overall objective as well as deliverable for Pakistan is complete eradication of terrorists and terrorism from Pakistan, complete disbanding of its ISI agency, overseas trial (not in Europe) and death penalty for all jehadi activists, complete handover of all nuclear weapons, reactors and all nuclear related material to UN, and complete surrender of all offensive weapons by Pakistani army. For 25 years, Pakistan should allow its defense budget to be approved and audited by UN. This is not without precedent. The plan should be similar to or stricter than, what Japan had to go through at the end of WWII.

While the plan is in action, if any major terror attack anywhere in the world happens, major defined as more than 10 casualties, and there is a direct or indirect link to Pakistan (which is bound to be there), two steps should be skipped and the next one activated immediately. If Pakistan goes anywhere near its nuclear stockpile or takes any offensive action against its neighbours, Step 6 should be activated immediately.

Step 1: Complete ban on all inward and outward movement of goods and travel from Pakistan other than foreigners willing to get out and Pakistanis abroad willing to get back. If Pakistan delivers key terrorists inside Pakistan and openly circulating or kept in ISI safe houses such as Hafeez Saeed, Dawood etc., this step can be suspended until action is taken on major objectives given above.

Step 2: Baluchistan, Sind declared by international community to be free nations. Punjabi Pakistan forces given 48 hours to get out leaving behind all weapons. Civilians may stay if the newly freed countries are okay with it.

Step 3: All Pakistanis overseas should be deported with 48 hours notice unless they are persecuted minorities, naturalised citizens of other countries or have a clear and well documented track record of opposing terrorism*. Evacuation of all foreigners, persecuted minorities and other Pakistanis with clear and well documented track record of anti-terrorist activism inside Pakistan. (*No doubt the last category should be carefully drawn up to ensure no jihadi sympathiser gets into this category).

Step 4: Complete devastation of all known ISI, Pakistan army as well as military or dual use facilities by missile / air attacks along the lines of the campaign against Iraq. No ground troops need be used. Pakistani civilian government facilities should be spared for the first week but only for the first week.

Step 5: One randomly chosen city will be carpet bombed each week. The concept of collateral damage should be limited to border areas where the effect of bombings can affect other countries.

Step 6: All of Pakistan to be attacked and destroyed for the sake of humanity.

Amen.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Gagan » 22 Nov 2009 07:27

Only in pakistan:
What is reported as Pakistan hands over evidence of US involvement in terrorist activities to visiting CIA chief Leon Panetta,
Evidences of CIA involvement in Pak presented to US

ISLAMABAD : Pakistan on Friday presented evidences of CIA involvement in the country to Director US Central Intelligence Agency Leon Panetta, Aaj News reported.

According to the channel, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Chief Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha presented the evidences to Leon Panetta, who called on him during his two-day visit to Islamabad.


The real story as per another paki new outlet.
CIA Chief Panetta meets Zardari, Gilani

Director CIA Leon Panetta called on President Asif Ali Zardari at Presidency today. CIA chief also met with Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani and Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha. Panetta discussed the war against terrorism and other issues in his meetings with Pakistani top officials, sources said. Panetta in his meeting with the intelligence officials likely to raise the issue of the presence of Taliban Shura in Quetta, sources said.


As usual 180 degree twisting of facts by the pakistani media. :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2009 09:46

Gagan wrote:
. . . was working in London between 1963 to 1967 in UK with a Paki ISI operative Salman Tassir

Salman Tasir (Taseer) is presently the Governor of Pakistani Punjab and is a close friend of Zardari. He is also the ex-husband of journalist Tavleen Singh, IIRC.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2009 09:48

US Assessment of TSP
The US shares India's perception that Pakistan is not keen to act against anti-India militants even as it continues its crackdown on Taliban militia in South Waziristan, sources said.

The US was not very optimistic whether Pakistan will act against anti-India terror infrastructure, sources said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Jarita » 22 Nov 2009 10:35

SSridhar wrote: was working in London between 1963 to 1967 in UK with a Paki ISI operative Salman Tassir Salman Tasir (Taseer) is presently the Governor of Pakistani Punjab and is a close friend of Zardari. He is also the ex-husband of journalist Tavleen Singh, IIRC.



OT
Well he certainly has been around the block has'nt he and likes the good life based upon various pics.. The picture is that of a pasty faced frankenstain.
http://www.pakistanviews.com/wp-content ... 50x133.jpg

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Anujan » 22 Nov 2009 12:20

SSridhar wrote:Salman Tasir (Taseer) is presently the Governor of Pakistani Punjab and is a close friend of Zardari. He is also the ex-husband of journalist Tavleen Singh, IIRC.


You are right. His and Tavleen's son has written a book and there is a review of the book, which includes an overview of their lives

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?240187

Raju

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Raju » 22 Nov 2009 12:32

Do they have just one son or are their other children too ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby sum » 22 Nov 2009 13:38

Only in pakistan:
What is reported as Pakistan hands over evidence of US involvement in terrorist activities to visiting CIA chief Leon Panetta,

Even if the Paki story had turned out to be true, why on earth would anyone give proof of involvement of a agency to the agency's chief? And why would that be proudly reported? :-? :roll:

As usual, anything Paki throws up a ton of questions.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby manish » 22 Nov 2009 16:50

NYT article detailing the life of Daoud Gilani aka David Headley. Apparently his mom was an amirkhani staffer at a paki embassy where she was swept off her feet by his TFTA father. Apologies if it has been posted before. BTW, there is a small mention of his trips to Mumbai in the article.
A Terror Suspect With Feet in East and West
Raised by his father in Pakistan as a devout Muslim, Mr. Headley arrived back here at 17 to live with his American mother, a former socialite who ran a bar :eek: called the Khyber Pass.

Today, Mr. Headley is an Islamic fundamentalist who once liked to get high. He has a traditional Pakistani wife, who lives with their children in Chicago, but also an American girlfriend — a makeup artist in New York :roll: — according to a relative and friends. Depending on the setting, he alternates between the name he adopted in the United States, David Headley, and the Urdu one he was given at birth, Daood Gilani. Even his eyes — one brown, the other green — hint at roots in two places.

In 1977, Pakistan’s government was overthrown in a military coup, and Ms. Headley, friends said, feared for her children. She traveled to Pakistan, withdrew her son from the Hasan Abdal Cadet College and brought him to live with her, a move recorded by The Philadelphia Inquirer.

According to family friends, the teenager soon rebelled against his mother’s heavy drinking and multiple sexual relationships by engaging in the same behavior.

“Those were the days when girls, weed, and whatever, were readily available,” Jay Wilson, who worked at the Khyber Pass, wrote in an e-mail message from England. “Daood was not immune to the pleasures of American adolescence.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby James B » 22 Nov 2009 22:00

Pakis who got arrested in Italy

Image
Image

Pakistanis Mohammad Yaqub Janjua (59) and Aamer Yaqub Janjua (35)
arrested for their role in the 26-11 bomb-blasts by Italian Police

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 22 Nov 2009 22:12

^ Look less like mugshots and more like TSP matrimonial adverts onlee....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby anupmisra » 23 Nov 2009 00:44

James B wrote:Pakis who got arrested in Italy
Pakistanis Mohammad Yaqub Janjua (59) and Aamer Yaqub Janjua (35)
arrested for their role in the 26-11 bomb-blasts by Italian Police


Very SDRE looking, I must say. What happened to the TFTA image that every sPooki has of himself? The image where he has one brown and one blue eye?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Ananya » 23 Nov 2009 03:20

looks like there are more 2+ 2 ....

Italian police arrest 4 in Mumbai terror attacks
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/11 ... index.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Mahendra » 23 Nov 2009 03:45

More bad news for cricket lovers
"Would be" Shahid Afridi run out


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Avinash R » 23 Nov 2009 09:32

Taliban gag Pak’s Buddhist heritage
November 23rd, 2009

Taxila (Pakistan), Nov. 22: Archaeologists warn that the Taliban are destroying Pakistan’s ancient Gandhara heritage and rich Buddhist legacy as pilgrimage and foreign research dries up in the country’s northwest.

“Militants are the enemies of culture,” said Abdul Nasir Khan, curator of Taxila Museum, one of the premier archaeological collections in Pakistan.

“It is very clear that if the situation carries on like this, it will destroy our culture and will destroy our cultural heritage,” he said.

Taxila, a small town around 20 km south of Islamabad, is one of Pakistan’s foremost archaeological attractions given its history as a centre of Buddhist learning from the 5th century B.C. to the 2nd century.

Violence is on the rise in Pakistan as Taliban bombers and gunmen strike with increasing frequency and intensity in the cities of North West Frontier Province and around the capital Islamabad.

“Even in Taxila we don’t feel safe. The local administration has warned us about a possible attack on this museum. We have taken some extra security precautions but they aren’t sufficient and we lack funds,” said Mr Khan.

“For weeks we don’t get even a single foreign visitor. If visitors don’t come, if sites are not preserved and protected, if research stops, what do you think will be the future of archaeology?” he said. In March 2001, Taliban militants in neighbouring Afghanistan blew up two 1,500-year-old Bamiyan Buddha statues in defiance of international appeals.

The Islamist militia has since spread into Pakistan. Their opposition to music, art, dance, girls’ education and idolatry makes archaeologists fear that Pakistani Buddhist relics are in the eye of the storm.

Italian archaeologists were active in Pakistan’s northwest Swat valley from 1956 until they reluctantly discontinued work in 2007 after Taliban fighters led by radical cleric Maulana Fazlullah rose up demanding Sharia law.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shiv » 23 Nov 2009 10:05

Avinash R wrote:Taliban gag Pak’s Buddhist heritage
November 23rd, 2009

“Even in Taxila we don’t feel safe.


See the map of Rawalpindi district below. Islamabad is marked(center,in white). To the left (West) is Taxila. In the center is Rawal town that I nuked in the deterence thread. To the right (East) is Kahuta

Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Charlie » 23 Nov 2009 10:17

Taliban gag Pak’s Buddhist heritage


The angst of a western archeologist abt the state of Buddhist Heritage sites in Pakistan.

necessitasnonhabetlegem | February 11, 2007 12:51 AM

"The government of Pakistan actually controls very little of that country - most areas outside the capital are efectively self-governing and respond only to military pressure from the centre. Very little civilian authority remains, especially in the more remote areas, and sharia law predominates even in the larger towns. Pakistan is most certainly not safe for Western civilised people to visit. Furthermore, there is a widespread culture of bribery for everything from owning a vehicle to taking a taxi to shopping for necessities. In effect, law and order, as the average civilised Western person would understand those terms, has long since ceased to have any meaning; indeed, such meanings probably ceased to be relevant shortly after 1947.

"A couple of years ago I was privileged to be allowed to join a study team looking into the rock carvings (petroglyphs) and inscriptions along the Karakorum Highway - part of the old 'Silk Road' network - which are, or, rather, were, some of the most historically important artifacts in Pakistan.

"I had read, naturally, the opinions of Professors Jettmar and Hauptmann (Heidelberg University) and also Professor A.H. Dani (Quaid-i-Azam University Islamabad, Pakistan) a most civilised moslem of the 'old school' so to speak) and I looked forward to a very civilised and enjoyable two months pottering about amongst some very interesting carvings.

"Well, I was never more mistaken in my life!

"The rock carvings are mainly, but not exclusively, in the area around the village of Chilas in the Diamir District and it cost the whole team almost two thousand pounds (three thousand US dollars) in bribes, and three weeks of time in Islamabad, to have our travel documents made good for the journey to Chilas. It cost us an additional one thousand five hundred pounds for the 'arrangement' of a military escort - an escort, incidentally, which was never provided; we were, instead, escorted, if that could be construed to be the correct word, by a group of what I can only describe as barbarian, gun-toting ruffians who had to be paid off in US dollars on a daily basis.

"When we finally got to Chilas - a nightmare journey which took three days - we had the added financial burden of having to pay a 'tax' to each and every mosk in the area in order to be allowed to stay there (this eventually came to over one-and-a-half thousand pounds) and various moslem clerics routinely searched our baggage for what they called 'illegal works' and 'the devil's machines' and which we came to realise meant Christian writings and anything that looked like having a purpose more than that of a simple camera.

"We had been told that there were some 45 sites on a stretch of the Indus of about 80 miles in length, and on both banks, with about 40,000 petroglyphs and 10,000 inscriptions in more than 15 writing systems and that the carvings were scraped, or chiseled in some cases, into the larger stones scattered about on the river banks and the lower flood banks of the river valley.

"Certainly there are at least that number of sites but at almost every site we visited systematic destruction of the carvings had obviously taken place.

"At one site, a mere ten miles from Chilas, we witnessed for ourselves a group of locals, obviously under the directions of several clerics, systematically destroying the stones with large hammers, steel rods and sundry other tools.

"When we attempted to remonstrate with these people we were physically attacked and our interpreter - a young man from Islamabad - told us that our attackers were telling us that they were deliberately destroying the works of the ungodly that the British put there so that they could come back and claim the place as their own again!

"No amount of reasoning and explanation seemed to get through to these people.

"Some three days later we did manage to convince one imam that these rocks were much older than the British colonial era and he turned to us and said, according to our translator, that if they (the rock inscriptions) were indeed as old as we claimed then they didn't matter and should be destroyed anyway for they obviously came from the mythical (his word) era before the coming of the prophet and so had no validity.

"He added that because we were interested in them then they all had to be destroyed to save his people from the evil ways which we infidels brought with us.

"All of this, you understand, from a man who was counted amongst the folk of that area to be educated and knowledgeable!

"I'm not ashamed to admit that on the aeroplane home to London I wept - yes, really, I cried. Why?

"Because these damned barbarian moslems don't just want to rewrite the past, they want to destroy it also - they want to remove any evidence that anything is any different from that which they claim.

"They are doing it everywhere and all the time - robbing all of us of our past, cutting us off from our various identities, systematically destroying our sense of us.

"Even here, in civilised old Britain, I have encountered moslem youths who disrupt archaeological conferences, attempt to destroy archaeological sites, attack archaeologists and pervert knowledge in a desparate attempt to deny that the past ever contained anything other that islam.

"And what do we do? Well, we give in as far as I can see. Some days it just all seems so hopeless. {Note - Dominic wasn't always as despairing as this - normally he was pretty fiery - dda}.

Dominic."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 10:43

The autonomous jihad in America - Praveen Swami
A very comprehensive summary of jihadi activities in the US and all connections going back to our friendly neighbour. Olease do take time to read it.
But the policymakers in the U.S., who saw counter-terrorism through the al-Qaeda prism, failed to understand that it was not the sole threat. Even as the al-Qaeda was degraded, the Lashkar-e-Taiba and other Pakistan-based groups began to provide infrastructure for anti-U.S. jihadists.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 11:27

I don't know whom to deal with in Pakistan: Man Mohan Singh on CNN

This has been the classic problem facing Indian Prime Ministers since the 50s.

"I think the most important force in Pakistan is the army," he said in an interview with CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" Sunday coinciding with his four-day state visit to US when asked who he thought was running Pakistan right now?

"And there is democracy. We would like democracy to succeed and flourish in Pakistan. But we have to recognize that the power today rests virtually with the army."

Asked if he felt he had a partner in Pakistan right now with whom he can negotiate, Manmohan Singh said: "Well, I don't know whether we have a partner right now."

The prime minister said when General Pervez Musharraf was the president of Pakistan, "I used to ask him. And he said, 'Well, I am the army. I represent the armed forces. I represent the people.' Now I don't know who to deal with."

Asked if looking at the situation in Pakistan, he was worried about the collapse of the state and the nuclear weapons moving into the hands of either some radical element within the army or terrorists, Manmohan Singh said: "Well, we worry about all these contingencies."

"But we have been assured by the Americans that they are satisfied that's not going to happen."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 14:05

The Pakistani Perfidy and the Indian Inaction - Frederic Grare
as its own security situation deteriorated, it became relatively easy for Pakistan to convince the international community that it was facing a threat from its periphery. It argued that this threat was the consequence of the war in Afghanistan and its participation in the international effort against terrorism. It was not necessary to approve of Islamabad’s policy in order to accept this idea.

The Indian government shares part of the responsibility for the idea gaining credence. If it fought Pakistan’s argument diplomatically, it left the international public space wide open for Islamabad’s propaganda. It made little difference, given the growing currency this discourse enjoyed, that the organisations Pakistan was combating at the time — the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and the Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi — were not actively fighting in Afghanistan. In fact, they had been created of the Pakistani state. Their mere existence demonstrated Pakistan’s commitment against terrorism. The generic term ‘Taliban’ made them radicals of the worse kind which needed to be fought and eliminated if possible. New Delhi and Islamabad were thus deemed to be facing the same enemy and the weaker of the two had to be helped and encouraged. Pakistan was still responsible for its own “mistakes,” but was no longer the sole one to be blamed.{That is why Sharm-el-Sheikh is such a bad thing} India and the rest of the international community, it was argued, shared a collective responsibility in the increase of violent extremism.

In the process, the mistakes of the early days of the anti-Taliban offensive in 2001-2002 were repeated and, in a way, aggravated. When the U.S. administration had de facto accepted a distinction between regional and internationalist groups, it lessened the pressure on Pakistan to crack down on them, provided it showed some results in the fight against the al-Qaeda. The nature of the main operator of the Mumbai attacks, the Lashkar-e-Taiba was, and is, still misunderstood. Although the organisation has had a global agenda from the time of its creation, it is still perceived by many western observers as a regional organisation active mainly in Jammu and Kashmir.

Post-Mumbai, then, the Pakistani security establishment and its terrorist proxies won the battle of ideas, although by default. Everybody protested and blamed the attackers. But neither India nor its actual or potential partners put up the kind of intellectual fight that was necessary to counter the pernicious arguments that turned the victim into a part-culprit.{Again, Sharm-el-Sheikh comes to mind}

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Philip » 23 Nov 2009 14:24

Not knowing whom to deal with in Pak,is actually a sinister strategy of the Pakis,so that they can wash their hands off any acts of terror perpetrated against India,which is now being exported worldwide,their largest export.Like good rent boys,as long as their "needs" are satisfied,it is merely a matter of the pecking order at the plums of office.As far as India is concerned,their policy is "open house" for any terror outfit that wants to attack us.Our strategy should be to treat Pak like a rogue state and of welcoming the vermin so that our boys can induge in the sport of pig-sticking,both on our side as well as across the border.After a few good hunts,the pigs might get shy of crossing more often,like the boars in Obelix's village!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 16:23

The generation that failed- Roedad Khan

He asks very correct questions. He also knows the answers because he is one of them who failed Pakistan badly.
Why did Pakistan become a land of opportunities for corrupt, unscrupulous, unprincipled politicians; judges and generals; corrupt and dishonest civil servants; smugglers and tax evaders who have bank accounts, luxurious villas, mansions, and apartments in the West? Why did Pakistan become a nightmare of corruption, crime and despair? Why? Why?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Airavat » 23 Nov 2009 16:29

Nukes have made Pakistan unsafe

Bhutto gathered the nation’s top physicists in Multan and told them to build the bomb. Some disagreed, some were uncertain and some were gung-ho. Among those who disagreed was Professor Abdus Salam who would go on to win the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979. While the Pakistanis were marshalling their resources, the Indians beat them to the punch.

Dr Khan arrived in Pakistan in 1975. Since then, a cottage industry has grown trying to piece together evidence about what happened next. But the puzzle has defied a solution. Despite his self-serving agenda, Khan cannot be ignored. When Bhutto visited the ailing Chairman Mao in 1976, Khan says that the two leaders struck a nuclear deal. In 1982, during Gen Zia’s rule, China provided Pakistan with enough weapons-grade uranium and blueprints to manufacture two atomic bombs.

As documented elsewhere, Pakistan also acquired weapons-grade uranium from other sources and may have passed along western know-how about centrifuges to China. Along the way, Pakistan acquired ballistic missile technology from North Korea. The nuclear weapons have placed Pakistan in a quandary. They were supposed to help the nation survive an Indian invasion. And now the survival of the weapons themselves has become a priority.

But there is controversy as to who poses the biggest threat to the weapons. The Americans say it is jihadis and the Pakistani nationalists say it is the Americans. Any independent observer would conclude that the nuclear weapons are a net liability on the nation’s security balance sheet.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Pranav » 23 Nov 2009 16:30

Philip wrote:Not knowing whom to deal with in Pak,is actually a sinister strategy of the Pakis,so that they can wash their hands off any acts of terror perpetrated against India,which is now being exported worldwide,their largest export.Like good rent boys,as long as their "needs" are satisfied,it is merely a matter of the pecking order at the plums of office.As far as India is concerned,their policy is "open house" for any terror outfit that wants to attack us.Our strategy should be to treat Pak like a rogue state and of welcoming the vermin so that our boys can induge in the sport of pig-sticking,both on our side as well as across the border.After a few good hunts,the pigs might get shy of crossing more often,like the boars in Obelix's village!


Philip Saar, Pak is an area in which no entity enjoys sole sovereignty. There are a number of terrorist and non-terrorist groups jostling for control. The Pak army is just one of these groups (and it falls in the terrorist category).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 23 Nov 2009 17:13

But there is controversy as to who poses the biggest threat to the weapons. The Americans say it is jihadis and the Pakistani nationalists say it is the Americans.


OK. But what do the jihadists say?

Raju

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Raju » 23 Nov 2009 17:53

this came in the mailbox

Dear Friend

I have resigned from the editorship of Daily Times. So have Khaled Ahmed (Contributing Editor) and Ejaz Haider (Op-Ed Editor) along with other senior staff.

Thank you for the support and encouragement you gave us in making Daily Times a "new voice for a new Pakistan."

I hope it will be able to live up to your expectations and mine in time to come.

With best wishes

Najam Sethi
Ex-Editor in Chief
Daily Times Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby anupmisra » 23 Nov 2009 18:14

Point to ponder on:

Avinash R wrote:“It is very clear that if the situation carries on like this, it will destroy our culture and will destroy our cultural heritage.


Heritage and culture! Whose culture and heritage? Both words used in the single sentence by a pooki. Hmmmm....do not go well with the basis of the founding of the land of the pure. If it's pre-Qasim (pbuh), then it is pagan, and therefore has to be destroyed by the believers.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 18:18

Raju wrote:this came in the mailbox

Dear Friend

I have resigned from the editorship of Daily Times. So have Khaled Ahmed (Contributing Editor) and Ejaz Haider (Op-Ed Editor) along with other senior staff.

Thank you for the support and encouragement you gave us in making Daily Times a "new voice for a new Pakistan."

I hope it will be able to live up to your expectations and mine in time to come.

With best wishes

Najam Sethi
Ex-Editor in Chief
Daily Times Pakistan


Aha . . . that explains it. In my post here a couple of days back, I sensed something was cooking in DT. All the old bandicoots have not been contributing lately and we find a completely new set of faces.

DT was owned by Najam Sethi. He also own TFT, but he is not giving up TFT. This probably means that the 'Establishment' is tightening its grip. The change in the tone and content of some recent editorials show that DT will henceforth follow a more hardline policy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby James B » 23 Nov 2009 18:26

Just realised that Salman Taseer, present governor of Pakjab is the Chairman & CEO of Mediatimes which owns Dailytimes. He belonged to PPP party.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Dipanker » 23 Nov 2009 18:36

Raju wrote:this came in the mailbox

Dear Friend

I have resigned from the editorship of Daily Times. So have Khaled Ahmed (Contributing Editor) and Ejaz Haider (Op-Ed Editor) along with other senior staff.

Thank you for the support and encouragement you gave us in making Daily Times a "new voice for a new Pakistan."

I hope it will be able to live up to your expectations and mine in time to come.

With best wishes

Najam Sethi
Ex-Editor in Chief
Daily Times Pakistan


Surely he will write someday how the military-jehadi complex pressured him to resign.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 18:49

Charlie wrote:
Taliban gag Pak’s Buddhist heritage


The angst of a western archeologist abt the state of Buddhist Heritage sites in Pakistan.

It is not just the Taliban, but also the mainstream Pakistanis. Even in the field of art, music and dance, there is a close parallel between what happened in the Third Reich under Hitler and in the sixty two year history of Pakistan. The Third Reich frowned upon ‘degenerate art’, that is any art that was not furthering the Master Aryan Race and/or Germany. So also in Pakistan, all forms of art, music and dance were discouraged that were not in conformity with Islam. The people of Pakistan inherited the same forms of music and dance that India had been well known for thousands of years and yet these art forms practically disappeared in Pakistan very quickly. Gen. Zia-ul-Haq banned music, drama and dance as they were considered haraam in Islam. However, there is another angle to discouragement of art forms in modern Pakistan. The reason is similar to that of Nazi Germany where art forms that were construed to be ‘not belonging’ to the same class as the Aryan race were explicitly banned. Similarly, most of the art forms of the Indian subcontinent have the Hindu or Buddhist heritage and were thus anathema in the Land of the Pure.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby Philip » 23 Nov 2009 19:03

The current crisis in Pak according to one of its citizens I met not too long ago,is that of the Sharia law,being pursued with a vengeance by the ungodly elements within Pak.The various institutions of the state having failed to provide the people of Pak with a decent life,now even to the point of losing their lives on any street on any day,has made them so desperate that many now feel that only the path of Islam through the Sharia can save them.Their ranks are growing and with the help from indoctrinated uniformed Pakis,who were infected with the virus of fundamentalism by Gen.Zia,the civil war for the soul of Pak has begun.Jinnah is fast becoming an obsolete icon and the new icons are the mullahs and the mujahids fighting against the state.At some piint in the future,there will be a military revolution,with the "beardies" overthrowing their superiors.That is when the real chaos will begin.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby arun » 23 Nov 2009 20:42

SSridhar wrote: Aha . . . that explains it. In my post here a couple of days back, I sensed something was cooking in DT. All the old bandicoots have not been contributing lately and we find a completely new set of faces.

DT was owned by Najam Sethi. He also own TFT, but he is not giving up TFT. This probably means that the 'Establishment' is tightening its grip. The change in the tone and content of some recent editorials show that DT will henceforth follow a more hardline policy.


Sridhar,

As James B has mentioned the controlling shareholder in Daily Times is the Governor of Pakistan’s Punjab province Salman Taseer.

The reasons for Najam Sethi’s departure from Daily Times is more prosaic and owing to a difference of opinion in dealing with the financial stringency at DT and sister concern Aaj Kal..

See what is purportedly Najam Sethi's post in this Google Group:

Press Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby anupmisra » 23 Nov 2009 20:58

SSridhar wrote:Even in the field of art, music and dance, there is a close parallel between what happened in the Third Reich under Hitler and in the sixty two year history of Pakistan.


Sridhar, I am glad you brought up this analogy between the current state of affairs in pa'astan and the third reich. In particular the last days of the reich. Being a second world war armchair history buff, I recall reading detailed accounts of the last days of the reich when Berlin was surrounded by the red army. The remaining general population still under control of the nazis (soldiers and no-soldiers alike) went on a mindless spate of debauchery and merrymaking, fratricidal killings, political retributions and outings, treachery, and a pervasive sense of hopelessness. The mark was not worth the paper it was printed on. Additionally, there was this massive influx of refugees from surrounding areas lost to the Russians. What we are seeing today in that beknighted land is similar. One can draw exact parallels. One one hand you have these fashion shows and rock concerts attended by the super elites (almost as last acts of defiance) and on the other hand the "killed or be killed" civil war that is spreading in the countryside and provincial towns.

The question is: does pukiland go its natural way (of breakup/disintegration/chaos/mayhem) or is there a west sponsored "marshall plan" on its way that will give rise to a new, stronger but democratic Germany?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Postby shiv » 23 Nov 2009 21:27

anupmishragaru - no Marshall plan for bakis. Only martial plans will do for the TFTA. But the lack of fesivity and IED mubaraks saddens me.


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