Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Hariprasad » 09 Jan 2010 22:57

For people who can't access IBNlive.

Transcript of the conversation between Pakistani handlers and terrorists inside the hotel:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pakistani Handler: So how are you? Hard work is paying off. These people are now hiding. If only they come out, we can shoot them in the head.

Qari (terrorist inside the hotel): They have a van and they are firing from behind it, and the armymen then throw something from within.

Saifullah (Pakistani handler): Shoot them in the head. Wait for daylight, then start your fight again.

January 7: 0741 hrs IST to 0745 hrs IST

Junaid (Pakistani handler): Theek Ho? (Are you okay?)

Terrorist at Lal Chowk, Srinagar: We are fighting the enemy.

Junaid (Pakistani handler): You have breathed life into a dead horse. Your sacrifice and courage will have a good impact on the movement in Kashmir. The movement in Kashmir will once again get direction and importance. You attack has had a real good impact.

Terrorist at Lal Chowk, Srinagar: Why not? We are working hard. Other brothers should also work hard. All well at home?

Junaid (Pakistani handler): They are all praying for you. Just try to keep this going for as long as you can.

Terrorist at Lal Chowk, Srinagar: We will fight them till we have ammunition.

Junaid (Pakistani handler): Yes but with caution. One-one, two-two... keep them engaged... ensure they incur maximum loss.

Terrorist at Lal Chowk, Srinagar: Absolutely, they have already incurred losses in lakhs. This fight started at 1 pm (1300 hrs IST) yesterday (Wednesday) and continued through the night and is still going on.

January 7, 0844 hrs IST

Pakistani handler: How many are there?

Terrorist: Two. By the grace of Allah, Qari sahib has attained martyrdom. He will soon breath his last

Pakistani handler: May Allah accept his martyrdom

Terrorist: Pray for me too that I also attain martyrdom.

Pakistani handler: Don't talk about martyrdom now. There is lot of work to be done now. You have to kill more of them. You have to do more such acts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby khan » 09 Jan 2010 23:21

Hariprasad wrote:Transcript of the conversation between Pakistani handlers and terrorists inside the hotel

Why don't we cut the connection between the handlers and the terrorists?

I also think that dealing with Paki terrorists deserves a change in strategy. Today, only a spectacular Mumbai or Parliament type attack provokes GOI outrage. Why don't we start capturing as many terrorists as possible alive and "Kasab" them? Put them on trial, raise an international stink about each and every one of them, get (Interpol?) warrants out for their handlers, have the Prime Minister make statements about the incidents and generally embarrass the Paki's.

If we lower the "threshold" of GOI outrage, it could help us in the following ways:
* It will lower the threshold at which GOI can internationally justify military action against Pakistan. That in turn might force the US to lean harder on the Paki's.
* It might cause the Paki's to experience a severe enough diplomatic blowback to temper down their sponsorship activity.

This doesn't really require much more than GOI getting more "outraged" at what would today be considered minor incidents but in the future be elevated to major ones. As per General Kapoor the military capability to back such a position exists.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby jamwal » 09 Jan 2010 23:29

The recent attack in Lal Chowk, Srinagar is in not meant to make a statement like 26/11 did. Such kind of attacks were very routine till 2-3 years back. IIRC, it's been 2 years since pakis have managed an attack like this inside the city. Only new thing in this case is the authorities releasing recordings of conversation between terrorists and their handlers to media. Maybe Indians are slowly learning how to use media for their own advantage. We almost never had so many details about such incidents earlier.

Some people are suggesting mass influx of refugees from Bakisatan like in 1971 in case of another Indo-Pak war. Which ethnic, political or religious group (except for Hindus. Sikhs) is likely to be kicked out this time ? What will be their ingress points? LoC in J&K seems to be out of bounds more or less for common folk. That leaves Rajasthan and Punjab. Do we have enough fencing and security there ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Altair » 09 Jan 2010 23:30

Pakistanis want more Indian troops in Kashmir. They want an excuse to divert troops to their eastern border. This is a desperate move to catch Indian attention. This new strategy along with the Wagah border rocket fire is all a show to attract attention. The transcript says it all. Pakistanis knew Indians would be eavesdropping them. Sorry Pukis,But you got to try harder next time.
They really are utterly confused. Pakis have no clue about their next move, so they are doing what they are good at- Random killing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby harbans » 09 Jan 2010 23:47

Why don't we start capturing as many terrorists as possible alive and "Kasab" them? Put them on trial, raise an international stink about each and every one of them, get (Interpol?) warrants out for their handlers, have the Prime Minister make statements about the incidents and generally embarrass the Paki's.

If we lower the "threshold" of GOI outrage,


Good points. I too believe we should be hauling more alive through Kasab style trials. Maybe even install special Paki terrorist trial courts with seats/ cubicles for international jurists, Amnesty and assorted HR and media groups. Transcripts like these then will possibly get good media coverage. Looking at that, there is no difference in quality from what happened in 26-11 to Srinagar. Only quantity. Also agree we have to lower the GOI threshhold for outrage. Thing is how does one go about doing it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby A_Gupta » 09 Jan 2010 23:49

Sorry if it was posted before, but Irfan Husain argues the case for more, not fewer, drone attacks.

The Farhat Taj article referred to, makes the point reiterated on BRF time and again about the Pakistani army actions - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing -

People complain that not a single TTP or al Qaeda member has been killed so far by the Pakistan Army, whereas a lot of collateral damage has taken place. Thousands of houses have been destroyed and hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed by the Pakistan Army.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby animesharma » 10 Jan 2010 00:02

harbans wrote:
Good points. I too believe we should be hauling more alive through Kasab style trials. Maybe even install special Paki terrorist trial courts with seats/ cubicles for international jurists, Amnesty and assorted HR and media groups. Transcripts like these then will possibly get good media coverage. Looking at that, there is no difference in quality from what happened in 26-11 to Srinagar. Only quantity. Also agree we have to lower the GOI threshhold for outrage. Thing is how does one go about doing it.


The same thought is hard to implement as approach during encounters. As was in this case, the mind washed prick's objective was to instill as many casualty and die doing the same. The only sure way of capturing him alive is using chemical agents ,which may cause collateral damage.

There can be no other way of capturing them alive (except beating on offer made to him for heaven :mrgreen: ).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Dipanker » 10 Jan 2010 00:26

animesharma wrote:
harbans wrote:
Good points. I too believe we should be hauling more alive through Kasab style trials. Maybe even install special Paki terrorist trial courts with seats/ cubicles for international jurists, Amnesty and assorted HR and media groups. Transcripts like these then will possibly get good media coverage. Looking at that, there is no difference in quality from what happened in 26-11 to Srinagar. Only quantity. Also agree we have to lower the GOI threshhold for outrage. Thing is how does one go about doing it.


The same thought is hard to implement as approach during encounters. As was in this case, the mind washed prick's objective was to instill as many casualty and die doing the same. The only sure way of capturing him alive is using chemical agents ,which may cause collateral damage.

There can be no other way of capturing them alive (except beating on offer made to him for heaven :mrgreen: ).


offer them 72 goats may be?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby khan » 10 Jan 2010 01:03

harbans wrote:Thing is how does one go about doing it.

To start with, GOI needs to pass laws to setup permanent special courts staffed with investigators, judges, prosecutors and defence lawyers to speedily try these Pakistani's. Once the groundwork is done, GOI needs to release some kind of a white paper stating a policy zero tolerance for terrorists and their sponsors. Every terrorist act will then need to be immediately investigated in a credible manner and the results used to generate outrage by summoning diplomats, raising the temperature on the borders and so on.

If the terrorist is caught alive (and every attempt needs to be made for it to happen), outrage can be generated much easier for obvious reasons.

jamwal wrote:Do we have enough fencing and security there ?

I do not know, but my guess would be no. We do not take this kind of stuff seriously unless a problem crops up. The way the Pakistani economy is going, we will be having economic migrants from Pakistan in the next 3 years or so. Moving up that date a few years will not make any difference since we will not secure the borders until they start coming anyway.

animesharma wrote:The only sure way of capturing him alive is using chemical agents ,which may cause collateral damage. There can be no other way of capturing them alive (except beating on offer made to him for heaven :mrgreen: ).

My understanding is that the Indian Army has an policy of preferring to kill terrorists as opposed to capturing them. This might be because of a lack of confidence in the judicial process. Regardless of the reason, if the policy is changed, we should see more of them captured.

Altair wrote:Pakistanis want more Indian troops in Kashmir. They want an excuse to divert troops to their eastern border. This is a desperate move to catch Indian attention.

That might be true, but I see every reason for India to play along with the desperate Pakistani move. The only beneficiaries of this policy of restraint is the US and Pakistan. We should only continue with this policy of restraint if there is a clear benefit for India. So far there doesn't seem to be any. Anti India terror continues, Pakistan continues to get US funds and the US gets to kill the occasional terrorist. India gets zilch. If the Paki's continue with this nonsense, we should escalate, if the US wants us to back down, they should force the Paki's to start cracking down. The US hasn't even started arm-twisting the Paki's - they have a lot more leverage.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Rudradev » 10 Jan 2010 02:30

Kasab wasn't meant to be captured alive... all the 26/11 terrorists had instructions to avoid that at all costs. Capturing terrorists alive invariably costs the lives of security personnel who have to take greater risks to achieve such a goal. Kasab's arrest was only made possible by the sacrifice of Constable Tukaram Ombale.

Embarrassing Pakistan is a pointless exercise... how can you embarrass the shameless, especially when their financiers are equally shameless? Pakistan will simply continue to insist that the person captured alive is a representative of "non state actors" who are "also involved in terrorism against Pakistan". Its sponsors... the US, UK, China and Saudi Arabia... will collude to maintain this fiction, certifying that "Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism".

So who exactly are we exposing by producing live terrorists as "evidence", when the "courts" themselves have a vested interest in establishing the "innocence" of their client Pakistan?

We produce POF hand-grenades used by the '93 Mumbai terrorists, but the FBI "loses" the evidence.

We arrest Ahmed Omar Saeed Shaikh for his murder of Western tourists in J&K as a Harkat-ul-Ansar operative; but the West refuses to recognize Pakistan as a sponsor of terrorism, and we eventually end up sending back Omar Saeed Shaikh in exchange for the IC 814 hostages so that he can kill Daniel Pearl and plan further terrorism against India.

Terrorists from Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and even Syria are rendered by US intelligence agencies to countries where they planned their crimes, for joint interrogation by the security services of those countries. The FBI is given free access to Kasab himself when they want to interrogate him.

But our agents go all the way to Chicago to interrogate David Coleman Headley, and are turned away empty-handed. We are told quite bluntly not to have any realistic expectations of his extradition to India.

So for whose benefit should we place Indian security personnel at additional risk to capture these pigs alive, when thanks to the "honest brokers" of the international community, their live bodies are no greater embarrassment to Pakistan than their dead carcasses would be? The only ones who would gain anything as a result are other Paki terrorists who would take Indian civilians hostage and secure the release of their captured compatriots (and a grand propaganda victory in the bargain).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 10 Jan 2010 04:49

^^^RD saar,

Haven't heard it articulated better. Puts things in perspective and summarizes the situ mighty well for newbies, curious cats and lurkers.

Bravo. And tks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Masaru » 10 Jan 2010 05:05

Anujan wrote:The CIA base attack is even more serious than previously thought !

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010900758.html



Times report on the attack

One US official said the chemical fingerprint of the bomb that killed the seven CIA agents matched the kind produced by Pakistani intelligence.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Jarita » 10 Jan 2010 05:07

Six rockets from Pakistan spread panic in Punjab

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_si ... ab_1332669

Chandigarh: There was trouble on the Indo-Pak border in Punjab as six rockets fired in quick succession from the Pakistan side fell on the Indian territory on Friday night.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2010 05:32

To start with, GOI needs to pass laws to setup permanent special courts staffed with investigators, judges, prosecutors and defence lawyers to speedily try these Pakistani's. Once the groundwork is done, GOI needs to release some kind of a white paper stating a policy zero tolerance for terrorists and their sponsors. Every terrorist act will then need to be immediately investigated in a credible manner and the results used to generate outrage by summoning diplomats, raising the temperature on the borders and so on.

If the terrorist is caught alive (and every attempt needs to be made for it to happen), outrage can be generated much easier for obvious reasons.


Khan ji, what you suggest i am absolutely with. Specially the court thing, fair/ transparent trial and maximum attempt at catching the terrorists alive. We've come to the conclusion here specially since commando's have been heard saying we go in to kill only and stuff..that there is a training regimen that should be put in place. Really necessary to have a few of those terrorists caught alive.

Again i reiterate your and my concurrent views:

1. Make special courts for such incidents of cross border terrorism.
2. Invite HR/ Amnesty international and media and make trials very scientific/ transparent.
3. Train commando's to make every possible attempt to catch wannabe martyrs like Kasab alive. (without loss of life to commando's or hostage or other people).
4. Get a GOI white paper out on how to deal with the above 3 situations.

We've done enough stupidity, keeping Omar Sheik and Masood Azhar in jails for long periods without trial. Acts like TADA were detrimental in that sense. When we nail someone we should nail him/her on the basis of obvious and available evidence. Not legislation alone. And indeed India had enough evidence against these terrorists. But since legislation provided an easy way, the hard work to credible nailing fell off on the way.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2010 05:42

Embarrassing Pakistan is a pointless exercise... how can you embarrass the shameless,

Rudra ji, one can. As mentioned above India lost it's battle because of detaining people on legislation alone. US too in the first few years of post 911 lost the same credibility Abu Gharib and GB. We must make trials transparent/ scientific.. and lay things out in the open. Ultimately for us that want to survive on peoples opinion through a democratic environment, must make that extra effort that totalitarian Governments fail to make. We cannot detain even a Dawood without nailing him scientifically and objectively under international and national observers. We must learn and develop the capability to do that. Thats why i concurr with Khan Ji's views on the same.

Pakistan need not be embarassed. People who support that wretched nation can be. Even the Chinese people (if not the Govt or CPC) can be to an extent. That will always helps India.
Last edited by harbans on 10 Jan 2010 05:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 05:42

Jarita wrote:Six rockets from Pakistan spread panic in Punjab


Jarita, I have been watching your posts for a while. Where did you read "six rockets spread panic in Punjab" in that DNA link?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 05:49

NYC man charged with getting al-Qaida training in pukistan (where else?).

That explains the rise in "tourist" arrivals.

NEW YORK – A New York City man under investigation for his links to a terror suspect pleaded not guilty Saturday to charges that he flew to Pakistan to get military training from al-Qaida. Adis Medunjanin entered the plea during a swift arraignment at a federal court in Brooklyn. He faces counts of receiving military training from a foreign terrorist organization and conspiracy to commit murder in a foreign country.


The indictment made public by prosecutors on Saturday provided scant details on the accusations against Medunjanin, who was born in Bosnia but is a U.S. citizen


Recall those blond bosnians that pukistan gave refuge to in the '90s during the Bosnia-war? Most probably, the chickens are coming home to roost.

Some 380 Bosnians have arrived in Pakistan, to an ecstatic welcome. 'They are not refugees, they are our honoured guests. We have set up a Bosnian Village for them, not a refugee camp,' said Pakistan's Foreign Secretary, Shaharyar Khan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Jarita » 10 Jan 2010 05:58

anupmisra wrote:
Jarita wrote:Six rockets from Pakistan spread panic in Punjab


Jarita, I have been watching your posts for a while. Where did you read "six rockets spread panic in Punjab" in that DNA link?



Really! you are! the cup runneth over :)

But if you click on the link you will see that that is the headline. To your point, it does not appear to have caused major panic so no clue as to why that is the headline

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Rangudu » 10 Jan 2010 06:14

More evidence that the obvious TSP lies are starting to sink in more and more in Tubelight City

Lisa Curtis at the Heritage Foundation, on India-TSP tensions

But today, it is Pakistan's denial over the terrorism issue that poses the single greatest threat to establishing peace in South Asia. Pakistan's failure to shut down the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) more than one year after its attacks in Mumbai --and with knowledge that the group is planning to conduct similar attacks--leads to the conclusion that Pakistan seeks to provoke an Indo-Pak military conflict.

...

It has also raised questions about whether there was official Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai attacks.

A rational Pakistani response to the Headley case would be to offer the US full cooperation. This would bolster Pakistan's anti-terrorism credentials and clear its name. No responsible country wants to be accused of official complicity in terrorism.

Instead, Pakistan keeps reverting to denial mode. Pakistan's high commissioner to India, Shahid Malik, said on 20 December that India was not fulfilling its commitment to resuming bilateral talks--as made in the Sharm el-Sheikh joint statement. He said India's choice not to talk to Pakistan was "strengthening the forces which don't want the two countries to make any progress". But what can strengthen those forces more than a state's refusal to punish them? Twisting the facts on Mumbai to try to gain diplomatic mileage on India will provide diminishing returns to Pakistan in the post-Headley world.

...

Manmohan Singh, whom Obama rightly called a "man of peace", is willing to go the extra mile to move talks forward. But like any leader, his first and foremost responsibility is to ensure the safety and security of his countrymen. Before he can take a chance on dialogue with Pakistan, he must be able to tell the Indian people with confidence that Pakistan is making every effort to prevent another Mumbai-like attack.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Muppalla » 10 Jan 2010 06:28

It has to come otherwise how will the world and living organisms live. The natural end point for any blast or terror is unfortuantely our neighbour - sorry the disgrace of humans.

In any case either ISI or Pakistan-Taliban:- they have the capability to sharpshoot their targets of their choice. It will increase work for US in a big way as I do not think this will be a one off thing.

Video links Pakistan Taliban to deadly CIA bombing

The suicide attack inside the CIA base — which the bomber said was meant to avenge the death of the former Pakistani Taliban leader in a CIA missile strike — could prompt the U.S. to further pressure the government of Pakistan to crack down on militants who operate on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border. U.S. missile strikes against targets on the Pakistan side already are on the rise.


Al-Balawi turned out to be a double-agent — perhaps even a triple-agent. In the 1 1/2 minute video, the bomber said he attacked the CIA to avenge the death of Baitullah Mehsud, the longtime leader of the Pakistani Taliban who was killed in August


Question for Gurus: - Is ISI friendly to Baitullah Mehsud? I thought ISI/Pak in general are not in favor of Pakistan-Taliban as it is not Punjabi-Taliban.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2010 06:29

Rudradev wrote:Kasab wasn't meant to be captured alive... all the 26/11 terrorists had instructions to avoid that at all costs. Capturing terrorists alive invariably costs the lives of security personnel who have to take greater risks to achieve such a goal. Kasab's arrest was only made possible by the sacrifice of Constable Tukaram Ombale.

Embarrassing Pakistan is a pointless exercise... how can you embarrass the shameless, especially when their financiers are equally shameless? Pakistan will simply continue to insist that the person captured alive is a representative of "non state actors" who are "also involved in terrorism against Pakistan". Its sponsors... the US, UK, China and Saudi Arabia... will collude to maintain this fiction, certifying that "Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism".

So who exactly are we exposing by producing live terrorists as "evidence", when the "courts" themselves have a vested interest in establishing the "innocence" of their client Pakistan?

We produce POF hand-grenades used by the '93 Mumbai terrorists, but the FBI "loses" the evidence.

We arrest Ahmed Omar Saeed Shaikh for his murder of Western tourists in J&K as a Harkat-ul-Ansar operative; but the West refuses to recognize Pakistan as a sponsor of terrorism, and we eventually end up sending back Omar Saeed Shaikh in exchange for the IC 814 hostages so that he can kill Daniel Pearl and plan further terrorism against India.

Terrorists from Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and even Syria are rendered by US intelligence agencies to countries where they planned their crimes, for joint interrogation by the security services of those countries. The FBI is given free access to Kasab himself when they want to interrogate him.

But our agents go all the way to Chicago to interrogate David Coleman Headley, and are turned away empty-handed. We are told quite bluntly not to have any realistic expectations of his extradition to India.

So for whose benefit should we place Indian security personnel at additional risk to capture these pigs alive, when thanks to the "honest brokers" of the international community, their live bodies are no greater embarrassment to Pakistan than their dead carcasses would be? The only ones who would gain anything as a result are other Paki terrorists who would take Indian civilians hostage and secure the release of their captured compatriots (and a grand propaganda victory in the bargain).


An excellent post that needs to go in the body of some repository of gyan about Piggystan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby pgbhat » 10 Jan 2010 06:41

India's military doctrine
This is with reference to "India's proactive military doctrine" by Dr Maleeha Lodhi (January 5). The key points identified by the writer do not suggest that the nature of the threat to our security has drastically changed. From the strategic point of view, military doctrines are subject to review from time to time. As for the two-front war, India has political and territorial disputes with both Pakistan and China. Hence it is its strategic need to consider a two-front war scenario. Such a threat is a nightmare even for a superpower. Seen in this context, this kind of threat to India is favourable for Pakistan. In 1962, China wanted Pakistan to generate a threat on the eastern border so as to dilute the Indian capability to fight China. Likewise, China took certain actions in the 1965 Pakistan-India war to help Pakistan.

It is a reality that India faces both military and non-military threats. Our strategy to provide the Kashmir struggle with diplomatic support is to dilute the Indian military capability against Pakistan. No future war can be fought without 'operational synergy', and a military strategy not assimilating this reality will always fail. We should not forget the lessons of the 1965 war and Kargil. It is the ABC of military strategy that a threat is a direct outcome of capability. Instead of rhetoric our military minds need to gauge the change in the Indian capability which can affect our response. India's primary motive is to deter Pakistan from supporting the insurgency in Kashmir. It has displayed its military and diplomatic coercive powers in the past. Pakistan changed its position as the international environment had changed. We must focus on our external security to a point that war can be sustained till diplomacy takes over, because a military competition only will be suicidal for Pakistan. Pakistan can no more sustain the so-called threats to its security as their economic cost is too high. Likewise, prudent leaders do not indulge in a war of words, and in this context statements by some of our leaders have been totally superfluous.

Brig (r) Asif Alvi

Karachi

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2010 06:47

So for whose benefit should we place Indian security personnel at additional risk to capture these pigs alive

Transparency sake. Proving it to your own people. Getting the GOI to lower it's own threshold level. For these reasons. Yes additionally it does help proving others that India is doing the right thing.

It's stupid to keep Omar Sheik in custody because of legislation called TADA and not because there is substantial proof and scientific data that can nail him to the murders of 5 foreign tourists in 95. It makes our judicial credibility no better than China or Pakistan. We lose verything by not investing in the little extra. Many of us too start doubting claims made by the Govt. Transparency is the key.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 07:16

Haqqani slams Pak passengers’ tough screening

Slams? Is that another word for 'demanding"?

WASHINGTON: Pakistan’s Ambassador to the United States Husain Haqqani asked US to exclude Pakistanis from the list of those passengers who were undergoing tough screening measures before entering the United States. Ambassador Haqqani was of the view that an attempt was made to blow up a US-bound plane on the Christmas eve by a Nigerian but punishment was being perpetrated upon Pakistanis. :rotfl: “This action of putting Pakistanis passengers under tough screening measures was unnecessary and caused disappointment,” he added. Haqqani said the security measures at the Pakistani airports were very tough and there was not a single incident of any security breach in recent past. He asked the US authorities to remove the additional security screening from passengers coming from Pakistan to the United States.


So, basically, Haqqani is claiming that pakis are better than the nationals of other thirteen excluded nations and that its ok to subject the others to tough screening because screening causes "disappointment" to the purelanders.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 07:19

Discrimination - LaWhori style

Wana-based student finds it difficult to get room in Lahore

LAHORE: A Wana-based student Kamran Khan, who got admission in a private IT institute in Lahore, has complained that he was not being allowed to live in any of the city’s hostels because of his connection with Waziristan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Lilo » 10 Jan 2010 07:20

British Pakistani woman arrested in Dubai after reporting rape by a waiter
A British woman who made a rape complaint in Dubai has been arrested for having illegal sex with her fiance, according to reports. The woman, a 23-year-old from London, said she was raped by a waiter in a luxury hotel after celebrating her engagement to her 44-year-old boyfriend, also from London.

But when she reported the alleged rape to police in the Middle Eastern state she and her boyfriend were arrested for having sex outside marriage and illegal drinking outside licensed premises.

Her attacker is believed to have denied rape, saying the woman, a British Muslim of Pakistani descent, consented, but he has also been charged with "illegal sex".


Arab briathers showering their luv on paki mohtermas .

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 07:34

Xerox Khan's latest musings. Some nuggets:

Pakistan would never again face a 1971-like situation, as it is now a nuclear power.

No country can ever dare cast an evil eye on it, said nuclear scientist Dr Qadeer Khan

The previous government wasted his six valuable years in which he could have come out with new technologies for the safety of the countrymen, he claimed.

India perhaps did not know that Pakistan had become a nuclear power 13-14 years before.”

He said that the country was facing very hard times.
No $hit, Sherlock!
He said that he offered his services to the government to solve the energy crisis but he received no response.

Dr Qadeer said that there was a man called Quaid-i-Azam

Late Benazir Bhutto trusted him to make missiles for the safety of Pakistan.

Corruption has taken over our psyche and we find adulteration not only in edibles, even the life-saving drugs are not pure


As always in the land of the pure, one great man's hot air deserves superlative platitudes from others:

District Bar Association President Toufiq Asif said that lawyers’ community would lay down their lives for Dr Qadeer Khan

He (District Bar President) declared that the whole nation was sorry for this (AQK's) maltreatment.


And, in closing:

It was learnt that hundreds of security officials were present around his house to stop him from proceeding to the District Courts, Rawalpindi, but he warned them that if they tried to stop him, he would beat them.


This photochor is now officially a megalomaniac.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby khan » 10 Jan 2010 07:37

Rudradev wrote:Kasab wasn't meant to be captured alive... all the 26/11 terrorists had instructions to avoid that at all costs. Capturing terrorists alive invariably costs the lives of security personnel who have to take greater risks to achieve such a goal. Kasab's arrest was only made possible by the sacrifice of Constable Tukaram Ombale.

Yes. Kasab wasn't meant to be captured alive. However, I find it very hard to believe that the we are killing every single terrorist that we encounter. I am sure that there are a few people that surrender in the middle of an encounter and others that are wounded. However the IA seems to have a take no prisoners policy. That policy needs to change.

Rudradev wrote:Embarrassing Pakistan is a pointless exercise... how can you embarrass the shameless, especially when their financiers are equally shameless? Pakistan will simply continue to insist that the person captured alive is a representative of "non state actors" who are "also involved in terrorism against Pakistan". Its sponsors... the US, UK, China and Saudi Arabia... will collude to maintain this fiction, certifying that "Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism".

I am not talking about Pakistan and their sponsors. I am talking about public opinion on a global level. Having public opinion clearly on our side will have several advantages.

For example, it will enable us to justify using our Cold start capabilities to launch unprovoked attacks against Pakistan to "protect" ourselves from their terrorists. Creating an environment where any little terror attack against India could provoke a justified armed response at any time will make the Paki's rethink their terror strategy.

Rudradev wrote:So who exactly are we exposing by producing live terrorists as "evidence", when the "courts" themselves have a vested interest in establishing the "innocence" of their client Pakistan?

This makes no sense to me. By "courts", I mean Indian Courts of Law.

Rudradev wrote:We produce POF hand-grenades used by the '93 Mumbai terrorists, but the FBI "loses" the evidence.

We arrest Ahmed Omar Saeed Shaikh for his murder of Western tourists in J&K as a Harkat-ul-Ansar operative; but the West refuses to recognize Pakistan as a sponsor of terrorism, and we eventually end up sending back Omar Saeed Shaikh in exchange for the IC 814 hostages so that he can kill Daniel Pearl and plan further terrorism against India.

Terrorists from Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and even Syria are rendered by US intelligence agencies to countries where they planned their crimes, for joint interrogation by the security services of those countries. The FBI is given free access to Kasab himself when they want to interrogate him.

But our agents go all the way to Chicago to interrogate David Coleman Headley, and are turned away empty-handed. We are told quite bluntly not to have any realistic expectations of his extradition to India.

So for whose benefit should we place Indian security personnel at additional risk to capture these pigs alive, when thanks to the "honest brokers" of the international community, their live bodies are no greater embarrassment to Pakistan than their dead carcasses would be? The only ones who would gain anything as a result are other Paki terrorists who would take Indian civilians hostage and secure the release of their captured compatriots (and a grand propaganda victory in the bargain).


This last part is a whine - unworthy of BR. The pressure any country applies on Pakistan at a given time depends on a few things:
* The countries interest in Pakistan. This we have no control over.
* Our military capability. Cold start is exactly what the Doctor ordered as far as Pakistan is concerned.
* The "atmospherics" at the given time. This is the part that we need to work on.

After the Mumbai attacks, just as after 9/11, the atmospherics where particularly favourable to the victims. India was quite justifiably outraged and if at the time India had chosen to attack Pakistan, India would have been quite justified in doing so. India would have a good 4-5 days before any international momentum built up for a ceasefire. Setting up the courts, keeping some of these terrorists alive and doing the things that I talked about will allow us to maintain an atmosphere where we can use our Cold Start capability to credibly threaten to attack Pakistan at will. In time, creating such an environment will make the Paki's think twice about even the minor terrorist strikes. It will also force the US to pressure Pakistan to do whatever it takes to keep the peace, just like we saw after the Mumbai attacks.
Last edited by khan on 10 Jan 2010 07:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 07:41

The Great Khan chips in with his vision. How can you keep the great one down when his landed property is on fire. Some of his nuggets:

The Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf (PTI) chief, Imran Khan, has charged that the rulers are silent over conspiracies to divide the country, as they had their assets abroad.

Imran alleged that our rulers were mentally slaves to the United States of America, adding their strings were pulled from abroad

He revealed that in a year, Rs 1 billion were spent on foreign visits of the president and prime minister.

He regretted that tax collected from the poor was spent on luxuries of the VIPs and according to his view, this was the reason that people tended to avoid paying taxes.

Imran was of the view that it was time for the youth to understand the challenges the country was facing


First, Xerox Khan. Then the great Khan himself. Must be "open mike" night.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2010 07:51

I swear I am not making this up. Call to promote culture

ARTISTS at a reception and dinner organised by the Pakistan National Council of Arts on Saturday said that Pakistan rewarded all artists who had been a part of the performing arts so hiding personal incompetence and lack of ambition by blaming the country was not justified. :shock:

it was the responsibility of all artists not to confuse commercial obscenity with culture.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby a_kumar » 10 Jan 2010 08:01

khan wrote:Yes. Kasab wasn't meant to be captured alive. However, I find it very hard to believe that the we are killing every single terrorist that we encounter. I am sure that there are a few people that surrender in the middle of an encounter and others that are wounded. However the IA seems to have a take no prisoners policy. That policy needs to change.


We have been swinging from one end to the other.

Not too long back, capturing terrorists was becoming a liability. It takes long time in courts and then there are the notorious instances of escapes and hijacks that we seem to succumb to. Making it worse, the fact that the slimy creatures can come into contact with other violent criminals giving them a chance to rub off some of their agenda!

Now, with the Kasab episode we appreciate the importance of getting these creatures alive.

I strongly subscribe to your view though. What I would prefer is our metrics being "Number of terrorists captured in encounters" than "Number of terrorists killed". However, this can only be a success if its associated with revamp of whole the system that deals with terrorism. Courts to Prisons to Cops. Like everything else, needs high level vision.. hope Chidu gets some time to spend on this.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 10 Jan 2010 08:13

^^^There need to be dedicated fast track anti-terrorism courts meting out sentences (including under sec 302) that are actually carried out pronto to surrendered or captured terrorists.

TSP will vehemently deny its brood is involved in any terrorism in Yindia and its sponsors will raise the pitch, sow FUD and generally insinuate poison (remember the "disaffected Indian minorities are likely to be behind 26/11" spiel by the UK-stanis before Kasab was caught?) in their media as well as their stakes in our angrezi media.

Like the wise have said:
Can't wake up someone pretending to be asleep

So it is with TSP sponsors. Its not that they don;t know. They can't afford to admit it only. Big difference, I know.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2010 08:15

a_kumar wrote: What I would prefer is our metrics being "Number of terrorists captured in encounters" than "Number of terrorists killed".


I object to this very strongly. I will explain.

If this thought process is pushed it will be only a matter of time before Indian WKKs will ask "Why were these so called terrorists not captured alive? Encounter counter killiiiing!!! Human rights!! :(( :(( " This is only a variant of that.

Now just go back to the transcript of the conversations between those Srinagar terrorists and their handlers. Those men - hiding in a building, often with innocent people nearby are looking to kill Indian soldiers at sight. These are dangerous men and trying to capture them alive is the most suicidal and silliest possible aim.

The terrorists have received military training and know how to put themselves in an advantageous position. Indian soldiers are working at a disadvantage "Don't kill civilians. Don't damage surrounding houses" etc. How on earth can anyone "capture alive" a terrorist hiding in a building or behind a rock when he has 5 days worth of food and ammunition on him?

Folks - please put on a thinking cap.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Muppalla » 10 Jan 2010 08:31

Wife proud of CIA suicide bomber

The Turkish wife of a Jordanian suicide bomber who killed seven CIA agents in an attack at a military base in Afghanistan has expressed pride in his actions.

"I am proud of my husband," Defne Bayrak told reporters in Istanbul, where she lives. "He carried out a great operation in this war.

"I hope Allah will accept his martyrdom, if he has become a martyr.

"I am not ashamed," she insisted.

"He did this against the American occupation" of Afghanistan, she said.

Bayrak's husband, Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi, blew himself up at a base near the Pakistani border on December 30 in the deadliest attack against the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) since 1983.

Balawi an 'enemy of America'

Turkish police officials said they will be asking Bayrak to face questioning from Istanbul's anti-terrorist unit, They did not elaborate.

Bayrak, who spoke to journalists wearing a black chador, said she did not believe her husband, a reputed double agent, had worked for the CIA because "he was an enemy of America".

"It is not likely my husband was a spy because he was an enemy of America... My husband could have only exploited America and Jordan," she said.

The couple married in 2001 in Istanbul, where Balawi had been studying medicine since 1995, and moved to Jordan the following year after Balawi graduated.

Neither had a criminal record in Turkey, Turkish news agency Anatolia said.

Bayrak, who has been in Istanbul with her two daughters since October, described her husband as a "believer" who was active on jihadist forums on the internet and "a man who would not even leave the house".

She said Balawi went to Pakistan in March 2008 to pursue medical studies and told his family he was planning to rejoin them in Turkey.

Bayrak, who holds a degree in journalism, has written and translated books and penned articles for Islamist publications.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2010 08:37

Muppalla wrote:Wife proud of CIA suicide bomber

She said Balawi went to Pakistan in March 2008 to pursue medical studies and told his family he was planning to rejoin them in Turkey.


Yoohooo! Wasn't someone asking about Pakistan Medical graduates for employment in the US?

To be fair nobody said anything about what type of job they would be employed for. White coat soosai anyone? Should be reassuring to any patient - "If you die, I die too"

:shock: :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Virupaksha » 10 Jan 2010 08:42

<whine start>
what is with some people? They forget history within 10 years. :(( All the kandahar episode, what did people learn from it?
</whine ends>

Sorry,

I do not understand what people are trying to say here? When did Indian army ever say that killing is their priority or they would not capture if opportunity presents? Did anybody study the SOP of the RR, BSF regarding the situations? Without knowing them, this is the worst form of dirt "keechad" being thrown on the Indian army.

Is there a chance that newspapers only publicize when people get killed and not when they are arrested.

P.S: If you ask my personal opinion, it doesnt work the way Mr. Khan wants. Kasab is a unique case. He was a very very small fry. but he was caught in a very very high profile operation with all the media limelight on them before he was even caught. Dont compare Kasab with anyone else. Masood Azhar a very high profile person was caught but what happened.
If somebody can be caught in a very high profile operation, he is a very unique exhibit. Dont compare him with the thousands of small fry caught/killed every other day.

Simple question, what would you do if Masood Azhar is about to be caught next time. 1) Risk 2-3 soldiers lives to kill him?
2) Then at the end of all the trial business risk another kandahar? I know my answer, what about yours Mr. khan?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Singha » 10 Jan 2010 08:55

unless its suspected to be a high level mastermind of the khalid shaikh type, its NOT AT ALL worth taking 1%
of extra risk to try capturing alive.
in any case, if someone has a gun is bent on not being taken alive, its very hard to capture alive.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2010 08:56

Leave alone captured terrorists - India has hundreds of Kashmiris who went across, had training in terror camps and then came back and laid down arms sometimes in televised ceremonies. There stories can be found by a simple net search.

The fact is shaming Pakistanis does not work. Blaming them does not work. Threatening them from a position of strength and killing them works.

Having said that shaming them could work if the shaming is done specifically to illustrate how they hide behind religion for murder. That carries the risk of collateral casualties of friendlies - so it needs care.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Postby Jarita » 10 Jan 2010 08:58

Did we miss this..
Milliboy is in Pakistan. The same guy who gave India huge lectures (immediately after 26/11) on how not compromising in K land is affecting our strategic security

David Miliband Meets Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz, Taseer
http://www.apakistannews.com/david-mili ... eer-128915

He said Britain, as “a long-term friend,” was determined to support Pakistan not just as an aid donor but also in terms of trade by working towards opening of European markets to its products.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100109/wl ... 0109182852
Miliband said that the international community should give Islamabad more effective support in tackling the Taliban insurgency in the country's northwestern tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.


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