Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

[Gagan]

No BRFite has yet deciphered why the pakistanis were so anxious over General Kapoor's remarks.

Here is my analysis:
The thing that really pissed off Pakistan was when he said India will fight a 72 hour war only.

His saying 72 repeatedly I think drove home the message to the Generals in GHQ.

(Further in depth analysis in the BENIS dhaga)

[AnantD]

Earlier quote by Mr. Khan:

1. I find it very hard to believe that the we are killing every single terrorist that we encounter. I am sure that there are a few people that surrender in the middle of an encounter and others that are wounded.
2. However the IA seems to have a take no prisoners policy. That policy needs to change.

Items 1 and 2 contradict each other. I don't think any Army has a policy of "take no prisoners". That would be against any civilized convention and would not be tolerated internally by a "soft" power like India.

Secondly, not taking prisoners hardens the resolve of the opposition to fight, just the opposite of what you want to win.

Thirdly, just because they don't publish how many have surrendered does not mean they don't surrender and are jailed. I know for a fact that some surrender and are jailed. Probably best to not disclose how many have surrendered, period, to keep the WKK's/media and other undesirable attention away. Whose business is it to count how many surrendered?

Even Gotus never published a GITMO guest list for years, I still haven't seen one, although "most" have gone back to their old ways after being released.

[Altair]

Shaming them wont work. I accept. I have an idea how a pakistani mind works.
If 'Kasab' issues a statement tomorrow stating that "The Pakistani Major who trained me was a Gay molester and the Pakistani army has no balls to attack India and hence they resort to terrorist sneak attacks".Pakistanis will be furious.
If we do capture some manure,it better be used to our advantage, not theirs

[Karan Dixit]

The terrorists have received military training and know how to put themselves in an advantageous position. Indian soldiers are working at a disadvantage "Don't kill civilians. Don't damage surrounding houses" etc. How on earth can anyone "capture alive" a terrorist hiding in a building or behind a rock when he has 5 days worth of food and ammunition on him?

Plus, terrorists are lusting to meet 72 virgins. They do not want to be captured alive. Life gives them Pakistan and misery. Death gives them 72 virgins and other associated luxuries of paradise.

[arun]

Sulphurous comments on Hindus by the Proprietor of the Dr. Shireen Mazari edited mainstream Pakistani newspaper, The Nation:

Hindus enemy of Pakistan: Nizami

Source: OUR STAFF REPORTER Submitted 6 hrs 49 mins ago

LAHORE - Chairman Nazaria Pakistan Trust (NPT) Majid Nizami has said Hindus are eternal enemies of Pakistan and that is why Hindustan has always been trying to destabilise Pakistan in the disguise of establishing “friendship”.

“Hindu is our enemy and I will keep saying this till my last breath. India wants to finish our existence as an independent Muslim state in South Asia. So we should be alert and vigilant about the evil designs of Hindus,” Majid Nizami stressed...................

He said Pakistan was established in the name of Islam and two-nation theory because Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations having nothing common.

Nizami said Hindus are hypocrite and they cannot be trusted while America is also not a friend of Pakistan and we need to be careful. ............................

The Nation

[Gagan]

Srinagar attack audio conversations on Times Now: Listen in

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Srin ... 428378.cms

[Altair]

No BRFite has yet deciphered why the pakistanis were so anxious over General Kapoor's remarks.

Here is my analysis:
The thing that really pissed off Pakistan was when he said India will fight a 72 hour war only.

His saying 72 repeatedly I think drove home the message to the Generals in GHQ.

(Further in depth analysis in the BENIS dhaga)

There is a school boy, a very bad school boy. He always cheats in the exam. either by stealing the question paper or copying from his friends.
The head master finds out about this mischievous boy. The headmaster used to give him special favors until this boy fornicated his daughter. He sets the question paper and keeps the paper to himself so he cant steal the paper. He also puts this boy in a place where he cannot copy from his friends. The boy must pass the exam or he would be thrashed in home by his parents. What would the boy do?

1. Thrash the head master and risk expulsion.
2. Run away from home and avoid embarassment.
3. Kill his parents solve the issue of fear.

There are many resident Paki experts. I am sure you figured it out by now

[sanjaykumar]

Sulphurous comments on Hindus by the Proprietor of the Dr. Shireen Mazari edited mainstream Pakistani newspaper, The Nation:


Smells more like skatole to me.

[Atri]

The pakjab-Sindh nexus is too close now.. Remember that kraachi is now the haven for jihadi abduls and not NWFP( which is merely a testing field).

Chiron, I don't understand what you mean by the above. There is and can be no friendship (nexus) between the Punjabis and the Sindhis. The Baldia town where this explosion took place is a Pashtun stronghold as are Sohrab Goth etc. There are three power centres in Karachi, the native Sindhis, the mohajirs and the Pashtuns. The Sindhis are the weakest power there. The mohajirs and the Sindhis are trying to sink their differences and swim the tide together as much as possible. The spate of targetted killings in the last few days have taken a heavy toll of MQM & ANP workers, both of whom are at the receiving end from AQAM.

Sridhar ji,

The probability of Sindhi uprising (similar to bengali uprising in 71) is quite low. The continuity of territory and river system has diffused the boundaries between Punjab and Sindh. The post I was responding to was contemplating on Indian intervention similar to that of 71.

That kind of refugee situation is not possible in near future, with respect to Sindh, IMHO. Indian intervention alone will not be a very good idea.. Iran needs to feel the pressure and persuaded to intervene as well. That will lessen the religious overtones of resistance in conquered Sindh.

[arun]

Karachi continues to be buffeted with political violence for the third continuous day.

Still not clear though if this violence is of the Mojahir vs Mojahir variety with the MQM and MQM (Hariri) squaring of or if this is of the Mojahir vs Pashtun (ANP) variety or if this is of the Mohajir and/or Pashtun vs Sindhi (PPP) variety. All these permutations and combinations have been prevalent of late in Karachi:

11 more die as target-killings tally climbs to 39

[sum]

IIRC, IA follows no prisoners policy only for "foreign terrorists". Homegrown pigs are arrested if given a chance.

[Virupaksha]

IA follows no prisoners policy only for "foreign terrorists".

Do you have any proof or a SOP manual?

[arun]

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is having a lot of takleef with the new security screening procedures adopted by the US for Pakistani nationals which includes pat downs.

Husain Haqqani, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Ambassador to the US :

Haqqani slams Pak passengers’ tough screening

Earlier the Prime Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Yousuf Raza Gilani also had much takleef with the new security screening procedures:

Gilani assails new US security checks for Pakistanis

I cannot fathom the takleef in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan . Indeed given that they have been bracketed, with Algeria, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and most importantly Saudi Arabia, that should bring great joy in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for being one more step closer towards fulfilling the burning national desire to be seen as Arab’s.

[a_kumar]

If this thought process is pushed it will be only a matter of time before Indian WKKs will ask "Why were these so called terrorists not captured alive? Encounter counter killiiiing!!! Human rights!! " This is only a variant of that.

Now just go back to the transcript of the conversations between those Srinagar terrorists and their handlers. Those men - hiding in a building, often with innocent people nearby are looking to kill Indian soldiers at sight. These are dangerous men and trying to capture them alive is the most suicidal and silliest possible aim.

The terrorists have received military training and know how to put themselves in an advantageous position. Indian soldiers are working at a disadvantage "Don't kill civilians. Don't damage surrounding houses" etc. How on earth can anyone "capture alive" a terrorist hiding in a building or behind a rock when he has 5 days worth of food and ammunition on him?

My comment went a little overboard, But, let explain Doc.

First off, the intel we may get out of these guys must be useful. And WKKs are precisely another reason why we need these guys. How many attacks have we seen in the last decade, but there is always a Suzanna or Teesta crying fowl and confusing the already naive and gandhian citizens. But guess what, we haven't seen any of these coming out of the woodwork in the past year. While the scale of 26/11 is a big reason, there is also the case of the "aspiring Bollywood actor" caught red-handed. Wouldn't it all have been an RSS conspiracy otherwise! We already have the Katare talk going on and Aman ki Asha in business!

Secondly, I understand the WKK's otherside and that is why I mentioned it has to go with a revamp of the setup, all the way to swift capital punishment according to the (new?) laws (no delays, no pleas) in the cases such as these. If you are going to ask me "Would I vote for catching alive, if the current system persists".. No.

Thirdly, as to the lives of our soldiers. Lets say folks tell me not to go to work, because I have to pass through a dangerous neighbourhood. I cannot just stop going to work. I have to make a call, is "going to work optional?". If Yes, then I don't go to work. If No, then I would figure out a way to minimize the risk while going to work.

If at a high-level, the power-be need to make a call "Is it useful to have at least one surviving pig?". If yes, then tactics and weapons need to evolve ed to achieve that, because that shouldn't be at the cost of more lives. Maybe tranquilizer bullet, maybe sleeping gas, maybe something else.

With Kasab, we got extremely freaky wierd lucky. Lucky to have one fearless soul Ombale at the right place and at the right second for the country (not for him or his family though). Until we get the objective and the methods right, we are just praying for more Ombale to come save us.

[arun]

International Living has released its 2010 Quality of Life Index.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan has bagged for itself the distinction of having the Lowest Quality of Life in South Asia and being overtaken by its erstwhile colony, Bangladesh.

The scores for Risk & Safety and Leisure & Culture are particularly pathetic (Best Score 100. Worst Score 0):-

Cost of Living 56
Leisure & Culture 03
Economy 42
Environment 67
Freedom 42
Health 51
Infrastructure 40
Risk & Safety 07
Climate 77

Final Score 43

2010 Quality of Life Index

[Gagan]

I was planning to post that news, but pakistan actually seems to have improved from the 10th worst to the 17th worst!

Tomorrows news headline in pakistan: "Pakistan experiences fastest growth of living standards"

[csharma]

Interesting discussion on cold start on a Pakistani channel. Ayesha Siddiqui, Hamid Gul, Maria Sultan and Raja Menon from the Indian side. A welcome change from Zaid Hamid type of shouting and frothing.

Raja Menon is super dipolmatic and basically indulges in chai-biskoot kind of answers.

These are the conclusions:
- Indian cannot handle two front war, even US could not.
- India is not capable of implementing cold start doctrine.
- Indian Army is searching for a role(???), possibly overshadowed by Air force and Navy
- Indian military is becoming more assertive.
- Pakistan will react by moving from recessed deterrence to something where the weapons could be mated.

Ayesha Siddiqui is disaapointing and does a lot of India Pak equal equal.


http://www.youtube.com/user/zuhayerI171 ... joN3wCm9uU

http://www.youtube.com/user/zuhayerI171 ... E1eMir4hO8

http://www.youtube.com/user/zuhayerI171 ... QaVMY_5-BE

http://www.youtube.com/user/zuhayerI171 ... nrM8WOW_K8

[SSridhar]

- Pakistan will react by moving from recessed deterrence to something where the weapons could be mated.

Ayesha Siddiqui is disaapointing and does a lot of India Pak equal equal.

The constant endeavour of the Pakistanis is to lower the threshold and the tripwires. They think that the next terrorist attack on India, which looks imminent and overdue, will force the Indians to react. They are preparing the ground to deter India.

[Altair]

The constant endeavour of the Pakistanis is to lower the threshold and the tripwires. They think that the next terrorist attack on India, which looks imminent and overdue, will force the Indians to react. They are preparing the ground to deter India.

Aman ki Tamasha is one such attempt. Its so pathetic,it makes me puke at the WKK types.

[Gagan]

The pakistanis have this knack of picking up Indian defence experts who don't rub it to them. They pick people for their talk shows people who will do chai-biskoot, refrain from pulling the rug from under their hawai mahal.

They are hugely wiser after the Bharat Verma episode.

Admiral Menon holds back his punches, we are witnessing a S-E-S type incident taking place here.

On their part I would recommend that the Indian experts bring themselves up to speed on the sheer hatered and cunningness of the pakistanis and cultivate the ability to unambiguously call a spade a spade. No pussyfooting about the main issues please.

This particular episode is using cunningness as a tool (instead of the stupid belligerance and toilet humor that zaid hamid types indulge in). This guy talks of the rising assertiveness of the Indian military vis a vis the political setup in india. They say that the americans bolster the military and develop parallel power centers. The pakistani takleef is understandable and laughable from our POV.

And finally from my POV, Ayesha Siddiqua and the host of this program come across as pragmatists, though still patriotic pakistanis and turly intelligent as opposed to the somewhat lower IQ TV hosts and guests we're used to seeing from pakistan. This is a window into the thought process of the somewhat higher cerebral powered pakistanis. The other dame that was here sounded like someone who had brushed off on the big big strategic sounding words and generally making a kichdi out of it.

[Gagan]

The constant endeavour of the Pakistanis is to lower the threshold and the tripwires. They think that the next terrorist attack on India, which looks imminent and overdue, will force the Indians to react. They are preparing the ground to deter India.

That is not possible. The rate at which they threaten nuclear war will mean that their threshold will fall so low that even an RPG fired by an indian soldier into pakistan and they will threaten nuclear war.

This lowering of threshold that they claim to have is directly proportional to the increasing insecurity that they have wrt their military's ability to withstand the might of the Indian armed forces.

It is plain to see that decisions as grave as use of nuclear weapons are not lightly undertaken, and there is sufficient space for a military doctrine to severely punish pakistan can be conducted very successfully by the Indian armed forces.

PS: The pakistanis' new mantra is Tactical nukes . Apparently they have graduated from dirty nukes to tactical nuke level explosive power (From sub-sub kiloton to 2-4 Kt as judged from N Korea's efforts)

[arun]

Excerpt dealing with the description of the contents of a supplementary reading textbook used in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s non-religious education system:

Smokers’ Corner: Can’t be us, or can it?

By Nadeem F. Paracha
Sunday, 10 Jan, 2010 .............................

Many intellectuals and scholars have constantly lamented the volatile content that exists in the many Pakistan Studies books that have been used in both government and private schools ever since the 1971 East Pakistan debacle and, more so, since the reactionary Ziaul Haq dictatorship.

These scholars have systematically criticised these books for glorifying jihad and hatred (against both non-believers as well as those Muslims who do not follow a narrow and myopic rendition of Islam). Instead of telling history as a linear narrative based on authentic sources, these books read like badly written fairy tales oozing with half-truths and obvious distortions.

The space here does not allow one to analyse the number of such ‘history books’ being taught in Pakistani schools, so I will take a single example in this respect to hit home the point. The Illustrated History of Islam by Abdul Rauf is an example. Published in 1993, it is said to be offered by schools as an ‘important side reading’. The cover is a watercolour painting depicting a Muslim warrior on horseback, wielding a heavy sword against what, I’m sure, are infidels.

Not surprisingly, the book uncritically uses the usual (and clearly polemical) Arab sources (that started emerging some two to three hundred years after Islamic conquests). Insisting on portraying the religion as a culturally homogenous entity (with all other variations being heretical innovations), the author, it seems, uses a war drum instead of a thoughtful pen to jot down his thoughts.

Then, as is typical of such history books, the author laments the downfall of the Muslim empire and squarely bases the reasons of this downfall on the theological innovations of Muslims that made them move away from true Islam and indulge in luxurious living and social laxities of the infidels. Of course, the author never touches upon the stark economic and political reasons that can explain the fall of empires in a more rational and thoughtful manner. That would require a pen, instead of the sword he seems to be using here.

My favourite section of the book is a sub-chapter called ‘The Four Anti-Islam Elements.’ This is what the author writes: “Currently Islam faces grave dangers from the following four elements: Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists.” In other words, everyone who’s not Muslim is a threat to Islam.

If such are the books being taught to children, is there any element of surprise left in watching certain TV personalities, politicians and their largely urban middle-class fans nodding in uncritical approval to what is simply a convoluted charade peddled as history and analysis?

Dawn

[Chandragupta]

How will capturing terrorists help us in anyway? Make no mistakes, the world give two hoots to what India says. They can pay lip service but thats it. Shaming Pakistan never works, beizzati karne ke liye pahle izzat chahiye. Why should our men risks their lives to capture these pigs alive? As far as Dhoti Roy, Set-al-wad and other Paki backside lickers are concerned, their reactions should not matter. They will cry & beat their chests when these pigs are dispatched to their xxx heaven & they will still houl when they are captured alive.

All this nonsense of 'we need to expose Pakistan in the eyes of the world' is ridiculous & naive. The world knows this very well, and has known for decades, they chose not to care. Kill the pigs & then kill some more.

[Hari Seldon]

GoI is playing to a plan, or so I hope.

Rumor is GOI's collecting data to estimate the TSP reaction function to Yindian actions and statements.

At some point a bait and trap can be laid. Something like Dy COAS challenging the pukes:

(Aloo) Dum hai toh apne nooks taiyar karke rakho...

Packees, all riled and frothing, might betray activity around the nuke locations, who knows....

/OK, fairytale over.

[ashish raval]

Sulphurous comments on Hindus by the Proprietor of the Dr. Shireen Mazari edited mainstream Pakistani newspaper, The Nation:

Hindus enemy of Pakistan: Nizami



The Nation

Bingo ! You guys realized this little late. Wonder how much of Pakjab will be left for you to save now.

[Chandragupta]

Three men live in a rough neighborhood. One is a lightweight midget and the other is a 20 stone, muscular peaceful giant. There is a goonda in the area, bigger than both of them who wants to dominate the area & collect hafta from all people who want to do business in the area.

The muscular peaceful giant is the only threat to the big bad giant, who can raise his voice for the people that the goonda exploits & troubles. However, the bigger goonda has an arrangement with the midget goonda so that the chhotu constantly troubles the peaceful giant & keeps him occupied with his own problems rather than meddling with the big goonda's affairs. But one day, the peaceful giant says "I have had enough. Now, I will take care of both of you together." The chhotu is baffled with the PG's statement. All this while the midget goonda has deterred the PG with his knife, but he knows that while PG can take a stabbing or two, in retaliation, PG will brutally mutilate him. So the chhotu starts shouting from the rooftop that he will not indulge in fist fights but straightaway use his knife on PG if he attacks him, in a desperate measure to deter an attack. PG will not want to be hurt badly in any fight, because it will hurt his body & it will years to recover for him to start body building again. So what shall be done?

If the PG picks up a fight but doesn't go for it in a ferocious manner, the chhotu might use the knife albeit very carefully so as to cause a small wound to deter him from fighting further. But if PG charges at him like an elephant, with a blood curdling war cry, the midget will wet his kaccha and run away to save his life, leave alone using the knife. The big goonda too will not dare to fight the PG because he knows it is not easy to beat him & if the PG beats him black & blue, he will have to hang his head in shame in front of all who he has ever troubled & exploited.

In other words, Pakistan would not dare to use even a TNW on Indian forces as long as the Indian war effort appears strong & the Indian leadership shows a spine of steel. Destroy their complete war waging capability, industrial infrastructure & economic centers within 72 hours and declare a ceasefire. China would simply sit on the sidelines & watch in horror.

[A_Gupta]

No one wants a suicide bomber sitting next to you in the plane even if he were a Pakistani.

[harbans]

^^^ Dawn article..it's funny how these Paki's write.

Well, it has finally happened. Pakistan, as of last week has been accorded the ignominious title. And all because of just this terrorist from Nigeria called Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.


They can’t afford to have crazy people from across the globe come in and try to bomb them. There’ll be more “canine bomb-detection teams” on domestic flights in the US.

Now they are blaming Nigeria for Pukistan becoming a 'country of interest'. Paki's have such small memories..they foreget how many of their country origin men were involved and convicted in the biggest polt to bomb transatlantic airliners..but reading deff and listening to commentatoprs in Puki media, one would get the impression there's never been any plots ever that involved a Paki.

Three friends of the leader of the airline bomb plot were convicted yesterday of terrorist offences connected to the plan to commit mass murder in the skies.

Adam Khatib, 22, was found guilty of conspiring with Abdulla Ahmed Ali to detonate suicide bombs on board transatlantic airliners flying from London to the US and Canada.

A jury at Woolwich Crown Court also found Nabeel Hussain, 25, guilty of acts preparatory to terrorism and convicted Mohammed Shamin Uddin, 39, of possessing a document likely to be useful to terrorists.

The three men were convicted at the end of an eight-week trial. They will be sentenced today. The prosecution said that they had helped Ali and his terror cell as they prepared for their suicide mission. The plot was thwarted in August 2006 after intensive surveillance by the police and intelligence services, as plans for the attacks were being finalised.

After the capture in Pakistan of a key link man between al-Qaeda leaders and Ali’s group in East London, police moved swiftly to arrest the group.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 950786.ece

[Nayak]

ISPR Documentary - Life of a Siachen Soldier Part 1 (Pakistan Army)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EnIF_dpW80

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCP88qmypaU

[anupmisra]

How will capturing terrorists help us in anyway? All this nonsense of 'we need to expose Pakistan in the eyes of the world' is ridiculous & naive. Kill the pigs & then kill some more.

I agree with the gist of your argument. Here, in the US, the shoot to kill belief amongst cops is borne out of the fact that criminals have more rights than the average citizen, and the probability of an "alleged" criminal caught in the act of commiting a crime but walking out of the courtroom is very high. Given our liberal laws that favor the criminals. Thats why, in encounters with criminals on the street, hundreds are bullets are fired.

[A_Gupta]

One goal should be to make Pakistanis as cynical about their jihadi leaders as they are about the average politician.

[shiv]

I agree with the gist of your argument. Here, in the US, the shoot to kill belief amongst cops is borne out of the fact that criminals have more rights than the average citizen, and the probability of an "alleged" criminal caught in the act of commiting a crime but walking out of the courtroom is very high. Given our liberal laws that favor the criminals. Thats why, in encounters with criminals on the street, hundreds are bullets are fired.

Quite apart from this convoluted thought process, an armed terrorist is dangerous and will kill you. He needs to be stopped - using excessive force if need be.

[Dipanker]

^^^ Dawn article..it's funny how these Paki's write.

Well, it has finally happened. Pakistan, as of last week has been accorded the ignominious title. And all because of just this terrorist from Nigeria called Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.


They can’t afford to have crazy people from across the globe come in and try to bomb them. There’ll be more “canine bomb-detection teams” on domestic flights in the US.

Now they are blaming Nigeria for Pukistan becoming a 'country of interest'. Paki's have such small memories..they foreget how many of their country origin men were involved and convicted in the biggest polt to bomb transatlantic airliners..but reading deff and listening to commentatoprs in Puki media, one would get the impression there's never been any plots ever that involved a Paki.

Three friends of the leader of the airline bomb plot were convicted yesterday of terrorist offences connected to the plan to commit mass murder in the skies.

Adam Khatib, 22, was found guilty of conspiring with Abdulla Ahmed Ali to detonate suicide bombs on board transatlantic airliners flying from London to the US and Canada.

A jury at Woolwich Crown Court also found Nabeel Hussain, 25, guilty of acts preparatory to terrorism and convicted Mohammed Shamin Uddin, 39, of possessing a document likely to be useful to terrorists.

The three men were convicted at the end of an eight-week trial. They will be sentenced today. The prosecution said that they had helped Ali and his terror cell as they prepared for their suicide mission. The plot was thwarted in August 2006 after intensive surveillance by the police and intelligence services, as plans for the attacks were being finalised.

After the capture in Pakistan of a key link man between al-Qaeda leaders and Ali’s group in East London, police moved swiftly to arrest the group.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 950786.ece

Dont forget Ramzi Yusuf, the Pakis have been trying to blow up planes for decades now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yussuf

Philippine Airlines Flight 434
Main article: Philippine Airlines Flight 434
Still needing a successful trial run, Yousef boarded a Philippine Airlines plane, a Boeing 747 designated as flight 434 from Manila to Tokyo, Japan with a stopover at Cebu, on December 11, 1994. His identity for the flight was that of an Italian man named Armaldo Forlani. The cabin crew for this leg of the flight would later tell investigators that Yousef changed seats several times during the relatively short flight, his last seat change coming after a return from the lavatory.[19]

When Yousef went into the lavatory with his dopp kit in hand, he took off his shoes to get the batteries, wiring, and spark source hidden in the heel (below where metal detectors in use at the time could detect), removed an altered Casio digital watch from his wrist to be used as a timer, unpacked the remaining materials from his dopp kit, and assembled his bomb. He set the timer for four hours later, approximately the time at which the plane would be far out over the ocean en route to Tokyo, then put the entire bomb back into his dopp kit and returned to his current seat. The bomb was tucked into the life vest pocket under his seat, seat number 26K, where it would be out of the view by ground crews cleaning the plane at Cebu, and made one more seat change. In older 747s, seat 26K is directly over the center fuel tank, where rupture by a bomb would cause the airplane itself to explode even if the initial bomb blast did not cause sufficient damage to crash the plane. Philippine domestic flight attendant Maria Delacruz noticed that Yousef kept switching seats during the course of the Manila to Cebu flight[19], but got off the plane at Cebu with the rest of the domestic flight crew and did not pass the information along to the international flight crew that boarded at Cebu for the trip to Tokyo.

Yousef and 25 other passengers got off the plane at Cebu, while 256 more passengers and a new cabin crew boarded the plane for the final leg of the flight to Tokyo, Japan. After a 38-minute delay[19], the flight took off, with a total of 273 passengers on board, and 24-year old Haruki Ikegami (池上春樹, Ikegami Haruki?), a Japanese businessman, occupying 26K. Four hours after Yousef planted his bomb, the device exploded, killing Ikegami and injuring an additional 10 passengers in adjacent seats. The blast blew a hole in the floor, and the cabin's rapid expansion from the explosion severed several control cables in the ceiling (cables that controlled the plane's right aileron, and cables that connected to both the pilot and first officer's steering controls). By chance, however, this particular 747 (the "SAS" model) had a different seating configuration and seat 26K was two rows forward of the center fuel tank[19], so the hole in the floor punched through to the cargo hold instead, sparing the plane from a fiery explosion. In addition, the bomb's orientation—positioned front-to-back and upward angled from horizontal—caused the blast to expand vertically and lengthwise; while this configuration ripped Ikegami's body in two and injured passengers in front of and behind the seat, Ikegami's body absorbed most of the blast force and the plane's outer structure was spared[19]. Had the same bomb been oriented side-to-side, it would have likely punched straight through the plane's skin and caused the plane to break up from explosive decompression[19]. Additionally, the 38-minute delay in takeoff from Cebu meant the plane was not as far out to sea as anticipated, contributing to the captain's options available for an emergency landing.

In spite of the damage to the steering and aileron controls, the cockpit crew coordinated throttle settings and air speed decreases to get the plane turned back toward land, and Captain Eduardo Reyes was able to make an emergency landing at Naha Airport on Okinawa (southern Japan), saving 272 passengers and 20 crew. The plane quickly turned into a crime scene, and bomb fragments found in and around the blast zone (as well as the lower half of Ikegami's body) provided clues pointing investigators back to Manila.

[edit] Unravelling
After the successful test run of his trial bomb, Yousef returned to Manila and began preparing at least a dozen bombs, each with a higher concentration of explosive materials. But just weeks before the Bojinka Plot was due to be launched, a fire started in Yousef's Manila flat; the fire made the apartment staff suspicious, and police, led by Aida Fariscal, raided the flat and soon uncovered the plot. A Philippine National Police raid in a Manila apartment also turned up evidence that Abdul Murad, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Yousef had drawn up plans for flying an airplane into CIA headquarters. The information was passed on to the FAA, who warned individual airlines.[20]

[r_subramanian]

How serious is the falling-out in Karachi between MQM and PPP?

Unrest being spread out from Lyari to other areas: MQM
KARACHI: Deputy Convener of Muttahida Qaumi Movement’s Coordination Committee, Dr. Farooq Sattar Sunday said attempts are being to spread ‘Lyari like situation’ in other parts of Karachi.
...
"Our patience and observance of restraint should not be misconstrued as our weakness" he warned he said, adding, some of the leaders of Pakistan People’s Party along with the terrorists of Lyari gang war have been at work ‘from generations’ to trigger violence and give it a shade of ethnicity.
...
Dr. Farooq Sattar said, if required, MQM is ready to offer services of its volunteers {i.e. its thugs} to the law enforcing agencies for establishing peace in the city.

link

[Jarita]

This is a Pakistani thread so hopefully one is allowed to pontificate.
At a certain level one admires the Pakistanis for having the conviction to fight for what they want. They want Kashmir and have made such a noise about it that today the world believes that Pakistan has a claim on Indian Kashmir but does not question pakistans claim on POK.
We have consistently lost territory since indep. both through war and otherwise - the recent report of whittling of our territory at chinese hands should be a wakeup call if nothing else. We did not even fight a war to face that loss. China occupied our territory in 1962 but it is shown as part of China today across the world. No one questions that. Tibet is also shown as China across the world.

While we may tote our success vis a vis Pakistan, all things being equal we have failed. Pakistan has lesser territory, lesser population but still able to orchestrate world opinion around Kashmir.
There is something seriously wrong with our leadership. All the hot air 'India superpower" etc are just to obfuscate the issue.
Unless something happens soon we will be left like "Happy Idiots" with nothing but believing we have everything like the "emporers new clothes"

[Anujan]

These are the conclusions:
1. Indian cannot handle two front war, even US could not.
2. India is not capable of implementing cold start doctrine.
3. Indian Army is searching for a role(???), possibly overshadowed by Air force and Navy
4. Indian military is becoming more assertive.
5. Pakistan will react by moving from recessed deterrence to something where the weapons could be mated.

My conclusions are a bit different.

1. Indian military is becoming more assertive Ayesha is like "Indian army does not seek signature from MOD janitor anymore"
Forget a coup by IA, everybody still agrees that a decision to go to war and a decision to deploy forces still rests with MOD. Then why this pants browning because Gen Kapoor said something in some remote corner of India in some random army conference ? This was not even during an exercise ! That just betrays the fact that so far, pakis have been relying on a soft political leadership to not give them a slap across the face. They know our capabilities well - an assertive IA, which clearly lays out the options, is causing a massive browning of pants.

All the talking heads are missing one critical point. India is simply raising the cost of spectacular terror attacks -- If cold start is diligently followed, Pak army needs to be readied before any terror attack. Cold start in that sense is just deterrence. Pak can be assured that their security in this context, is completely determined by their (good) behavior. Nobody is ready to discuss that.

[Paul]

They are hugely wiser after the Bharat Verma episode.

Admiral Menon holds back his punches, we are witnessing a S-E-S type incident taking place here.

On their part I would recommend that the Indian experts bring themselves up to speed on the sheer hatered and cunningness of the pakistanis and cultivate the ability to unambiguously call a spade a spade. No pussyfooting about the main issues please.

This particular episode is using cunningness as a tool (instead of the stupid belligerance and toilet humor that zaid hamid types indulge in). This guy talks of the rising assertiveness of the Indian military vis a vis the political setup in india. They say that the americans bolster the military and develop parallel power centers. The pakistani takleef is understandable and laughable from our POV.

And finally from my POV, Ayesha Siddiqua and the host of this program come across as pragmatists, though still patriotic pakistanis and turly intelligent as opposed to the somewhat lower IQ TV hosts and guests we're used to seeing from pakistan. This is a window into the thought process of the somewhat higher cerebral powered pakistanis. The other dame that was here sounded like someone who had brushed off on the big big strategic sounding words and generally making a kichdi out of it.

He was at a disadvantage as Hindi is not his mother tongue. However, he will come across as a credible defence commentator for the Pakistani audience.

Ayesha Siddiqa does make a few valid points. The IA has developed alternative means of commn to talk to the awaam bypassing the politicians/bureaucrats. Using media to resist the demarcation of SIachen is one example.

[Anujan]

At a certain level one admires the Pakistanis for having the conviction to fight for what they want. They want Kashmir and have made such a noise about it that today the world believes that Pakistan has a claim on Indian Kashmir but does not question pakistans claim on POK.

While we may tote our success vis a vis Pakistan, all things being equal we have failed. Pakistan has lesser territory, lesser population but still able to orchestrate world opinion around Kashmir.
There is something seriously wrong with our leadership.

You are terribly mistaken. By that analogy, at a certain level, one must admire the taliban. They have tied the sole superpower up in knots for 8 years now. So what can we learn from them ?

1. We should become one great nation of goat herders
2. We should teach all our children to become soosai bombers
3. We should all live in mud huts without electricity and water
4. Most of us should have one arm, one leg, a few fingers missing

The point I am making is, in India, The primary aim of the Indian government is governance & security. There are many ways of doing the two, economic and foreign policy, diplomacy, elections ityadi--fighting is a sub-sub-activity of governance and security. In Pakistan, the primary aim of the country is to conquer and break up India. Every other activity like begging for money, or renting bases and foreign policy by the hour are all support activities. So it is natural that Pakis talk about Kashmir all the time, and we talk about Amir stealing the story of 3 idiots.

As someone observed "Pakistan is obsessed about India, India is obsessed about herself".

Things are just fine the way they are, we dont have anything to learn from the Pakis about fighting or foreign policy--thank you.

So why this percieved "deficiency" against the Pakis ?

What I do like to see though, is for GOI to trust IMs, and not see foreign policy through the (assumed) prism of IM opinion. A stark example was was the Commies said that "Nuclear policy will be rejected by IMs". Why ? (this is debatable, but if carried out in best intentions), it is for our energy security and prosperity. Why would IMs have a problem with that ? Similarly our relationship with Pakistan. We havent given their population a tight thappad, because generation of politicians were afraid that it would be misinterpreted as an action against IMs rather than action against uncivilized unwashed hordes across the border trying to kill us all. So everytime there is a terrorist attack or a war by Pak, IMs have to prove their patriotism. Everytime we kill some Pakis, there is a slight discomfort in trying to clarify it is not religion but their actions.

The moment GOI-IM equation is stabilized, you will see the full fury and wrath of India on the Pakis.

[Jarita]

^^^ It appears to have become a politicians vs IA&pple of India situation

[Jarita]

The moment GOI-IM equation is stabilized, you will see the full fury and wrath of India on the Pakis.

You have misunderstood what I am trying to say. This is not an India vs. Pakistan issue. I am just using Pakistan as an example. This is failure of India to protect her land and resources. We have failed in protecting our territory on the world stage. Likewise with resources.
What do IMs have to do with our territory losses to China? We did not even fight a war for the losses after 1962. Our politicians under BJP/UPA have to have known abt this and if rumor has it, some were party to this. I have just heard that villagers in the Himachal/UP belt have been screaming abt this for the last 10 years but pple were told to look away. It is not one individual but many. The rot has set so deep that this ongoiing nonsense was kept under cover. Trust me, the same is happening with other resources of India as well. It is truly like the Emporers new clothes" - India Shining, Progress, Capitalism, Trickle Down theory and all that hot air.

I believe that we Indians are a bit myopic in the way we veiw Pakistan. Have said this again and again - Pakistan is a terrorist production and rental company. There are many players that act upon India and world through Pakistan. Yet given that destiny, no Pakistani politician would dare to compromise Pakitans territory. Those who did in 1971 suffered for it. And Pakistan has not forgotten. Our Public has