Indian Interests

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Prem
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -in-india/
Christianity Surging in India?
The story of rapid Christian growth in China is well known; since the end of the Cultural Revolution tens of millions of Chinese have converted to Christianity; TAI blogger Peter Berger accepts a middle range estimate of 65 million.What’s less known is that India, too, is experiencing a surge in Christian conversions, with some observers now believing that there are as many Christians in India as in China. In China, Christianity is often a religion of urbanites and the well educated; in India, aside from traditional communities of Christians in the south, Christianity is often strongest among Dalits — “untouchables” at the bottom of the social hierarchy.A recent article in Christianity Today offers an overview of the surge and offers some explanations for why it is happening. If this keeps up, expect Christian-Hindu tensions to flare in ways that trouble US-India diplomacy — and also expect Christian-Muslim tensions to rise as Christian and Muslim proselytizers are often fishing in the same ponds.
svinayak
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

Mostly false info
muraliravi
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by muraliravi »

Muppalla wrote:
I reiterate that SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY is the worst ever creature that mankind has ever created. Sorry for being on the extreme about this. The pendulum swings are too much to beleive him.
I would like to bring out some more salient points about this so called nationalist warrior.

A maverick of sorts always looking for media attention, goes around telling the world that I will do this to her, I will throw her out of the country, her degree is fake, my case is pending in court. I will argue my own cases, I will stop evm tampering. But whenever one asks "Sir, when is your case coming up". the reply is always " in 2 months". Apparently that 2 months has never come in the last 5 yrs and I have never seen anyone getting prosecuted, no fake degree ever proven in the court of law. Also made sure that no one genuine will file PIL's in SC, becos they have been fooled into believing that I will file and win the case. In the process this so called nationalist has managed to convince that the real nationalists are all fake. Oh no, he was not the first PM to make India nuclear, oh no, he was not the 1st pm to help india carve its own stragetic space, but he got him to escape from boston airport, oh no he struck a deal with the italians. Oh no he is not a good cm of gujarat, he has dealings with some ugly congressman. But I am the great, I made sure, I shook hands with pizza mom 13 yrs back and pulled down nationalist govts, but you know what, I will prove in court that the russians have infiltrated us and are ruling us. You know what, I shall free all our temples, but at the same time I have written about fascist hindus 10 yrs back. I shall throw pizzeteria out of our country, but alas that day will never come, and even if it comes, this double faced puny will have no face
Last edited by muraliravi on 18 Jul 2011 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
fanne
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by fanne »

Spot on!!
There is a saying - Beware of Greek bearing gifts
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Muppalla »

muraliravi wrote: But whenever one asks "Sir, when is your case coming up". the reply is always " in 2 months". Apparently that 2 months has never come in the last 5 yrs and I have never seen anyone getting prosecuted, no fake degree ever proven in the court of law. Also made sure that no one genuine will file PIL's in SC, becos they have been fooled into believing that I will file and win the case.
Murali - You are spot on about this maverick Subra Swamy. The important point you missed is that he always files the PIL with extreme unprovable stuff. In the process other will not be able to even file provable stuff because our courts allow only one PIL for a given issue. If you try to put another PIL SC will say that something is pending.
shyamd
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shyamd »

I have a theory - I think he gets his orders from Unkil. I am sure Kangress would find someone to crush this guy or shut whoever is talking (in PMO or wherever) up. SS must have serious backing.

Have you guys seen what he said about MRCA? While everyone is saying how great the selection process was (including knowledgable folks), this guy came out saying it was a Sonia - Carla deal (or something like that). MMS wanted US a/c and tried to even force some change. MoD, Def min and IAF top brass put the foot down and said no.Challenge swamy on twitter and he gets all defensive and thinks he is the smartest guy in the world,and he turns the argument on you by saying why are you against MMS? and will call you a sonia supporter lol.

Which raises more suspicion that Swamy is a US stooge. His voice is amplified when things with the US weren't going well. He teaches at a US university.. I don't know something is not right. Anyway, he says his EVM case is on in August and reckons he'll bring the govt down in september or something... Lets see.
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Subramaniam Swamy is allied with Chandraswami, who calls shots in Indian politics from behind the scenes.Please note that this failed godman turned politician guide/tantrik king maker, is still alive.He has gangs of Sadhus who visit America regularly.I wonder if there are any defence deals where his hidden involvement doesn't exist.He is clever at manipulating the press, never gives any statements nowadays,remains in the company of other money seeking saints,and blesses those who fall into his circles.Dara Singh,the wrestler of fame,also serves this man, he donated a Kothi in Safdarjang Enclave to Chandraswami.
Chandraswami has a past, connected with the Indian Independence.PVNR was his man, so was Chandrashekhar.Arjun Singh was opposed to him.Indira Gandhi often dabbled with him.Elizabeth Taylor was on his phone list,and so was Margaret Thatcher.Wonder who he is in touch with nowadays,I have not seen much of him lately,I saw him at close quarters once when I was starting my career, thats all.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by SwamyG »

Subramaniam Swamy has been the butt of many jokes. Some say, he spends all the money he earned in Harvad on frivolous lawsuits in desh. He is a loose canon and in undependable. He used to be all over the political territory. I have not tracked the eccentric character recently to see if he had any change of heart, ideology or gained some scruples & principles. JJ shares lots of similar traits. Pity uber-rightists have to take help from such people.

But this is Indian Interests dhaaga, and we are discussing one individual?
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

SwamyG, he threatens that he will bring down the government in six months. I don't think we can live with that threat can we?
nachiket
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nachiket »

sanjeevpunj wrote:SwamyG, he threatens that he will bring down the government in six months. I don't think we can live with that threat can we?
Well, I for one would be rather happy if he manages that, although it seems impossible.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by SwamyG »

sanjeevpunj wrote:SwamyG, he threatens that he will bring down the government in six months. I don't think we can live with that threat can we?
Check Archan's first post on the first page. Click on that link and read the commotion it caused last time. Granted S.Swamy is not going to get us BRFites twisted in our panties, yet we are dissecting this eccentric character. I don't want to stop the fun, just a reminder about what happened last time to this thread.

ps: The only solution is to have a one lightning rod - a.k.a "Political Nukkad" dhaaga under burqa :rotfl:
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

I had asked in Paki thread whether its possible to target Indians genetically due to the narrow gene pool. Here is an answer from a lurker.

1. Genetic targeting of Indians
IMHO, not easy, since Indians are the root-base population for all non-africans. Anything that targets Indians will very likely attack whites and chinese.
MtDNA-M is shared with Chinese
Paternal Y-haplogroup R1A is ancestral to east europeans and very close to R1B of west europeans

2. Pakistan economic demise
In pre-partition Punjab, the Hindu was a miser and saved money, whereas the Pakjabi muslim spent all he had and even borrowed from banians to live a lavish lifestyle.
Even today, in pakistan, any saving person is called derogatorily a Hindu.
The savings rate in India = 35%
Savings rate / 4 = 9% = GDP growth rate

The savings rate in Pakistan = 12%
GDP growth rate = 3%
( without external aid )

3. Per GLV.Rao. a BJP pollster, there is method to the madness of Digvijay singhs pronouncements.
It makes IM happy and congress is regaining most of the IM vote
i think Allahmian is looking after us!
Rudradev
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rudradev »

Received via Email:

Financial Times has published an interesting debate between historian Ramachandra Guha and strategic affairs expert Brahma Chellaney, along with 50 odd comments by readers, on the subject "INDIA IS TOO CORRUPT TO BECOME A SUPER POWER."

EXCERPTS:

Ramachandra Guha:

"Yet the truth is that India is in no position to become a superpower. It is not a rising power, nor even an emerging power. It is merely a fascinating, complex, and perhaps unique experiment in nationhood and democracy, whose leaders need still to attend to the fault lines within, rather than presume to take on the world without."

Brahma Chellaney's response:

"India’s economic and military rise is threatened neither by corruption nor by its ethnic diversity. India has demonstrated that unlike the traditionally homogenous societies of East Asia, a nation can manage diversity – and thrive on it.

"Rather, India’s rise is threatened by a political factor – a leadership deficit, which is compounded by a splintered polity. India is still governed by a pre-independence leadership – an anomaly even in Asia, where age is supposed to be wisdom. India today boasts the world’s oldest head of government and oldest foreign minister. Old, tired, risk-averse leadership can hardly propel any country to greatness. Worse, India’s coalition federal governments, which have become a norm, tend to function by the rule of parochial politics – in fact, by the lowest common denominator.

"Yet, democracy remains India’s greatest asset. It not only helps instil fear among the corrupt, but also makes India’s future less uncertain than China’s."


Select Readers' Comments on the Ramachandra Guha article:


"All quite true but it doesn't seem to have stopped China or for that matter Russia..."

"There is nothing inevitable about our success- we turn complacent at our peril. Systematic, analytical criticism can only help us improve, just as a deep crisis might shock us into reform."

"Nations don't have to be perfect civilizations to be super-powers. For this, they need a powerful military, a hard scientific & intellectual edge, cultural soft power, a dynamic economy and a will to engage with the world, for good or for bad. I don't see Mr.Guha debating whether the USA, with its military-industrial complex and beltway lobbyists, is a deserving candidate for its status of the world's policeman. It just *is* the world's preeminent power, for good or for bad.
India may remain corrupt society for a thousand years more, but that will have no bearing on whether it becomes a super-power or not."
"And here is my criticism of the author - I think a country can be a great power and yet corrupt and institutionally flawed."

"Economist Joan Robinson (quoted by Amartya Sen) used to say, “whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true.”

"As an Indian living in China, I feel terrible about the state of my own country's development (specially when compared to China) but also understand that India can never be a China. And maybe the question should not be about whether a corrupt nation can be a superpower. When China overtakes US as the superpower, no country (not just India) will be in a position to replicate the "China model" "

"It seems that Mr Guha has ignored the whole element of the rising middle class that is fueling the growth. In terms of corruption, that problem still persists but no credit has been given to the amount of improvements that have been achieved. I admit it is still one of the biggest problems facing our country, however, there are movements in India that are addressing this concern as we speak.

"India continues to succeed despite the corruption and one wonders how much she can achieve after resolving this problem."

"Yes, the gargantuan corruption in India weighs down on its potential to be a great power. Yet, we should not underestimate Indian genius to re-invent itself. Indian identity is still in the process of making, a work in progress as they say. Powerful social currents could well arise to stigmatise and purge this curse. Alongside corruption and self-aggrandizement we also frequently witness not inconsiderable reserves of idealism and social consciousness among the people at large. These reserves could enlarge in time and become a salient strand of India’s identity.

"Very often in its history India has appeared to be a hopeless case, even close to being at a point of disintegration. I remember in the early sixties American scholar-journalist Selig Harrison’s ‘India: The Most Dangerous Decades’ and Ronald Segal’s ‘Crisis of India’, were widely read discourses on the country’s dismal plight. Please do not think that these works were outpourings of prejudiced minds. No, they were highly regarded on the campuses and were even recommended by deans as texts on Indian polity. Yet, evolution of a pan Indian Identity was imperceptibly at work and as the years went by was gathering strength. And today it has galvanised as a formidable force.

"The point is, India springs surprises. Its ancient civilization is still a vital force and inspires and energizes its people to rise to new heights. Corruption of the present-day scale could be an outgrowth of creation of new, sudden, immense and dazzling wealth leading to a scramble by most who can, and be a mere passing phase. Please do not give up on the widely held countervailing belief system to come into play again, which is, material wealth is an illusion and a corrupting influence on the soul. Other-worldliness and spiritualism still run deep among people and are not dead, not as yet.

"The real Achilles heel of India is not corruption but its’ dangerous neighbourhood and its’ less than adequate preparedness to secure itself. In the past too India's vulnerability to external threats has been its main undoing. But this is another story."

"I have to say that I agree with Brahma Chellaney's observations in this case. Ram Guha, for once, has succumbed to his heart over his head...an infliction that we all suffer from, from time to time!! Particularly unfortunate are his sweeping generalisations and broad-brush conclusions"

The full debate is enlightening! Please read on.


http://blogs.ft.com/the-a-list/2011/07/ ... z1SZ7fOGBo
Rudradev
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rudradev »

FT requires registration so posting in full. Mods please remove if this is an infraction.

India is too corrupt to become a superpower

Ramachandra Guha

July 19, 2011

The sociologist Ashis Nandy once noted that “in India the choice could never be between chaos and stability, but between manageable and unmanageable chaos”. He wrote this in the 1980s, a decade marked by ethnic strife, caste violence, and bloody religious riots. But it applies even more so to the India of today, and is being made worse by the steady deterioration and corruption of India’s ruling political elite.

Throughout India’s history the manifestations of its chaos have been largely social and political: from secessionist movements and sectarian pogroms, to its enduring territorial conflicts with China and Pakistan. The bomb blasts in Mumbai last week are but the latest example. The perpetrators are as yet unidentified: like the 2008 Mumbai attacks, they may have originated from Pakistan, but whoever they turn out to be, this was a familiar example of one of India’s pervasive and long-standing fault lines.

Yet the Republic of India today faces challenges that are as much moral as social or political, with the Mumbai blasts having only temporarily shifted off the front pages the corruption scandals that more recently dominated. These have revealed that manner in which our politicians have abused the state’s power of eminent domain, its control of infrastructural contracts, and its monopoly of natural resources, to enrich themselves. Rectifying this is now arguably India’s defining challenge.

These scandals implicate many of the country’s most powerful leaders. They include the large scale looting of mineral resources in southern and eastern India; graft during the organising of the Commonwealth Games in New Delhi; the underpricing of mobile phone contracts to the tune of billions of dollars; and also numerous property and housing scandals in Mumbai. Corruption is not new in India, but the scale and ubiquity of these problems is genuinely unprecedented.

This activity cuts across political parties – small and large, regional and national. It has tainted the media too, with influential editors now commonly lobbying pliant politicians to bend the law to favour particular corporations. But while journalists may collude, and many companies and corporate titans have benefited, the chief promoters of this malaise have been the politicians themselves.

There is a curious paradox here; for India is the creation of a generation of visionary and selfless leaders who governed it in the first decades of freedom. These men and women united a disparate nation from its fragments; gave it a democratic constitution; and respected linguistic and especially religious pluralism, out of the conviction that India should not become a Hindu Pakistan. Today’s scandals, however, have their origin in the steady deterioration in the character of this Indian political class.

Surging growth is another proximate cause. Economic liberalisation has created wealth and jobs, and a class of entrepreneurs unshackled by the state. But its darker side is manifest in rising income inequalities and sweetheart deals between politicians and favoured businessmen, leading to the loss of billions of dollars to the public exchequer.

Was this necessary or inevitable? Perhaps not. The truth is that since 1991, the word “reform” has been defined in narrowly commercial terms, as meaning the withdrawal of the state from economic activity. The reform and renewal of public institutions has been ignored. It is this neglect that has led to a steady corrosion in state capacity, as manifest in the growing failure to moderate inequalities, manage social conflict, and enforce fair and efficient governance.

This could have been anticipated. Over the past three decades, a series of commissions have highlighted the need for institutional reforms, that, among other things, would insulate administrators and judges from interference by capricious politicians; prohibit criminals from contesting elections; curb abuse of the power of eminent domain; provide proper compensation for villagers displaced by industrial projects; make more efficient the now mostly malfunctioning public health system.

Many, perhaps all, of these reports have been read by Manmohan Singh, India’s scholarly prime minister; indeed, several were commissioned by him. Which is why the inaction on their recommendations is so disheartening. When Mr Singh became prime minister seven years ago, his appointment was widely welcomed. He was seen as incorruptible, and with the added advantage of a lifetime of public service. Tragically, in terms of concrete institutional reform these have been seven wasted years.

To single out an honest and intelligent man when corruption and criminality flourish may seem unfair. But W.B. Yeats was right: it is when the best lack intensity and conviction that we must fear for ourselves and our future. Mr Singh has been content to let things ride. He has not asserted himself against corrupt cabinet colleagues, nor has he promoted greater efficiency in public administration. Whatever the cause – personal diffidence or a dependence, in political terms, on Sonia Gandhi, his party president – this inactivity has greatly damaged his credibility, not to say India itself.

If nothing else, the current wave of corruption scandals will put at least a temporary halt to premature talk of India’s imminent rise to superstardom. Such fancies are characteristic of editors in New Delhi and businessmen in Mumbai, who dream often of catching up with and even surpassing China. Yet the truth is that India is in no position to become a superpower. It is not a rising power, nor even an emerging power. It is merely a fascinating, complex, and perhaps unique experiment in nationhood and democracy, whose leaders need still to attend to the fault lines within, rather than presume to take on the world without.

The writer is a historian, fellow of the Indian Institute of Management Calcutta and author of ‘India after Gandhi’ and ’Makers of Modern India’.


Response by Brahma Chellaney

India’s biggest problem is its old and tired leadership


Corruption in India is not only pervasive but threatens to reach predatory levels. This has spurred pessimism in some quarters about India’s future. Such gloom, however, misses the larger picture.

No nation’s potential can be measured by one yardstick alone. Corruption poses a serious challenge to India, but to contend that it will block India’s great-power ambitions is to forget history. The United States, for example, rose as a world power in spite its robber barons. And now China is demonstrating that rampant corruption is no barrier to a country’s dramatic rise on the world stage.

The pessimists also miss out one key development in India – there is already a public backlash against corruption that has galvanised judicial activism, sent several important politicians to jail, put the government on the defensive, and created new crusading icons. Contrast this with the Chinese system, which reeks of unbridled and unchecked corruption, with the public helpless.

In world history, periods of rapid economic growth have often been accompanied by rising wealth and income inequality and widespread corruption. It took the US more than half a century to bring the era of robber barons to an end, although big-bucks corruption still remains a challenge. In India, the backlash against crooked politicians and entrepreneurs – and the public campaign for cleaner politics and business practices – has started in earnest barely two decades after the advent of rapid growth.

India’s economic and military rise is threatened neither by corruption nor by its ethnic diversity. India has demonstrated that unlike the traditionally homogenous societies of East Asia, a nation can manage diversity – and thrive on it. As one of the oldest and most-assimilative civilisations in the world, India can truly play the role of a bridge between the East and the West.

Rather, India’s rise is threatened by a political factor – a leadership deficit, which is compounded by a splintered polity. India is still governed by a pre-independence leadership – an anomaly even in Asia, where age is supposed to be wisdom. India today boasts the world’s oldest head of government and oldest foreign minister. Old, tired, risk-averse leadership can hardly propel any country to greatness. Worse, India’s coalition federal governments, which have become a norm, tend to function by the rule of parochial politics – in fact, by the lowest common denominator.

Yet, democracy remains India’s greatest asset. It not only helps instil fear among the corrupt, but also makes India’s future less uncertain than China’s.

The writer is professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi, and the author of ‘Asian Juggernaut’ and ‘Water: Asia’s New Battlefield’.


Worth registering to read the comments.
Prem
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

Dhiru Thadani on India and new urbanism
RamaY
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RamaY »

Rudradev wrote: India is too corrupt to become a superpower Ramachandra Guha
India’s biggest problem is its old and tired leadershipResponse by Brahma Chellaney
The biggest problem for India is lack of self-awareness (What it stands for, its role in the world) and strategic-leadership.

We have discussed this a long time ago, in 2009 IIRC, in a thread called "Civilizational History"; giving birth to future-strategic scenarios and strategic-leadership threads.

Many people, even on BRF, don't even acknowledge that (post 1947) India = Bharat (eternal). So what would they protect, cherish and propagate when they become a super-power?

The leadership issue stems from the first point. To what vision they lead the nation to? All the current dhimmi-leadership at the helm can lead India to is to be a servant of either US (EJ) or China (Communist) or ME (Islam).
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

From a lurker:
The Mughal Empire was a tri-lateral collaborative venture. Ashraf(Sunni & Shia) and Ajlaf constituted one side. Rajputs the second. Trans-oceanic traders (Jewish, Armenian, Portuguese, English, Dutch, French) constituted the third. Each side and components within each side were always jockeying for position against each other. The balance between the three sides and inside the three sides was always set by economic factors. Jazia and Jagirdari respectively served as the economic foundations of the first two sides and trade profits drove the third.


The Republic of India can also be viewed as a trilateral venture. The Secularist Nehru-Gandhi faction(non-Tilak, non-Bose, non-Tandon) of the INC constitutes one side. The Minorities constitute the second side. Internationalist forces constitute the third side. Corruption and pilferage of State resources is the economic engine of the first faction. Direct State subsidies and privileged re-direction of resources drive the economic engine of the second(witness MMS statement on IMs’ first claim to resources). Unfair currency exchange ratios, seignorage and a hidden energy tax constitute the economic imperative of the third.

Note that neither the Mughal Empire nor the modern Republic is particularly concerned with the economic advancement of Hindu society at large. If that occurs that is an accident and is not dissimilar to a herd of cattle that breeds and feeds enthusiastically merely to ensure that the slaughterhouses are kept productively engaged.
Note this was written in 2006 and has been vindicated by the series of corruption scandals and numerous minority reports. As for the third leg its obvious to anyone who cares to read the newspapers.
AjayKK
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by AjayKK »



post may 98, maino conspicuously starts emerging and one by one, the rivals vanish and soon the INC becomes unipolar entity, thus compromising even the opposition leadership (in form of ABV, LKA and their role in rescuing Yuvaraj). With entry of unkil, old network had to be reactivated to keep India from misbehaving. One of the incentives for that this time was economic growth of India and removal of sanctions post 1998 nuke tests. the disadvantages was reactivation of dynasty.

The politics of India has increasingly become mainovaadi Vs India-vaadi and the divide is growing more and more sharper.
If we look at the LS map of India, it is clear that any entity that is not financially/politically connected to the Party in power is not "allowed to exist". Practically, there is no political opposition to the uni-polar identity, or rather there is no space granted for it.

At this point, all the allies of the chief party are "replaceable". By any permutation, any credible opposition alliance cannot muster up even 200 seats.

There is a map which can be found here that shows the states held by the alliances. Here is a map of the political presence of the opposition with slight edit.

http://ploader.net/#ee649d77c8dd1d54ed8 ... 1bda01.JPG

Image

This colour combination is originally used by the creator of the Wikipedia map. The only change is that UP has been added to the green side, since which ever entity emerges in UP, it always supports the coalition at the centre. Also, the Left Front, now reduced to holding Tripura - yet yielding power disproportionate to its representation - is practically always with the coalition. That leaves three states of Sikkim, Odisha and TN which are not presently allied with the coalition. Sikkim has only one LS seat. Those in power in Odisha and TN have no affinity towards NDA and have no enmity towards the present coalition. Due to financial and political leverage granted to them, outside of a white-wash of the chief Party at the LS, they are always "neutral" when it comes to opposing the coalition, but always quick to bring down other governments. Moreover the state of TDP in AP, SHS in Maha, AGP in Assam makes the case that the present state governments in these states will stay.

That leaves five NDA states of Punjab, Uttarakhand, Bihar, Jharkhand and Nagaland out of which the last one is polictically inconsequential. Punjab and Uttarakhand can be considered two states where the mis-chief Party has difficulty in getting support to its coalition. However, the potential of mischief is never absent. Jharkhand is always in a state of political disarray and has 14 LS seats, only half of which remains with the BJP. That leaves Bihar, which is again susceptible to political mischief. Although NDA pollsters may say that the alliance in Bihar is rock-solid and they always ignore the vote share of the BJP in Bihar, I believe anything is possible in politics.

Which finally reduces the political opposition to Gujarat, MP, Chattisgarh, Karnataka and Himachal Pradesh (4 seats), the "saffron trrists" on the map. Add Uttarakhand + Punjab and the total is 120 seats. Hence, practically for all purposes and considering the financial and political connections of the opposition and its allies to the chief Party, it can be concluded that "stable politics" is here to stay.

From time to time, the internal power struggles of the coalition, like the power struggle of our neighbour to the west, keeps raising itself resulting in falling choppers and live leaks. However, again like the neighbour to our west, a sense of "balance" reappears and the people in power not only hold themselves but consolidate better, reducing the space for any political non-allies.

Hence, for all peace and prosperity and to prevent the choppers of Raman Singh, Shivraj Chauhan and others in the coalition itself from "emergency landings", it is necessary to make the young leader as PM.
Rony
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rony »

Where are the P-sec's now ?

Dalit boycott by Muslims leaves Gujarat's Sanand village edgy
For 500 odd dalits in Andej village which has a population of over 5,000, buying 1 kg rice is a 30 km return journey.This is despite the fact that there are a dozen odd shops in the village laden with all the goods they need. The tragedy is that they are refused even a rickshaw ride, though they have money to afford one!

The social boycott of the dalit families here by the dominant Muslim community, has made life miserable for them.

The Muslim boycott of the backward communities started on July 1 after a scuffle between two groups in which a dalit was left with a fracture in the left hand. The injured man lodged a police complaint under the Prevention of Atrocities Act against those who had assaulted him.

This upset the majority population of the village. It was soon followed bya verbal fatwa warning the auto-drivers of the community that they would be fined Rs2,000 if they ferried a dalit community passenger.

The gorcery shops followed suit. Andej has some 700 Muslim and 100 dalit families, includingShenwa, Valmiki and Rohit communities. There are around 40 Patel families in the village too.

Since July 1, 2011, the 100 backward communities including Dalits have been boycotted by the Muslims of the village and are allegedly not allowed to purchase anything from the public market. They are also not allowed to use the local transport system which is dominated by Muslim auto-drivers from the village.

The 100 families are forced to use other means of transport which are much most costly. The village has around 15 Shenwa and 60 Rohit community families. Both these communities are considered backward even among the Dalit communities.

"We are not allowed to purchase anything from the local market," Shankar Shenwa told DNA. "They (Muslims) have announced a penalty of Rs2000 on any Muslim driver who allows us to sit in his vehicle," Shankar added. The scuffle that led to the atrocity case and the boycott took place after Shankar's brother, Manu Shenwa, was accused of stealing stones meant for some construction work in the village being carried out by one Hussain Khokhar."Khokhar came to my house, asked me about the stones, and then started beating me. Later other people joined him," Manu told DNA. He said that Khokhar, along with five other people, had assaulted him and fractured his left hand.

An atrocity case was eventually filed by Manu. This precipitated a boycott of all the backward communities of the village by the majority Muslim community.Fatu Rehmu, sarpanch of Andej Gram Panchayat, was not available for his comment but, her husband, who handles all the activities of the panchayat, told DNA that it was true that the Muslim auto-drivers were boycotting the backward communities.

"But they are doing this because they do not want any conflict between the two communities. It is best to avoid people from these communities if there is a possibility of conflict," he said. However, he denied that members of the backward community were being prevented from purchasing anything from the local market.Suresh Jadhav, a local Dalit activist, told DNA that when they tried to intervene and sort out the matter, Muslim families said that they would do so only on the condition that the atrocity case was withdrawn.
Yayavar
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Yayavar »

Am puzzled. Would it not be an 'assault'. Why is it an 'atrocity' case? What is happening now is an atrocity though.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/I ... 509464.php
India weddings faulted for prodigious food waste
NIRMALA GEORGE
( Ban the festival, Ban the weddings , Ban the Indian clothing, Bhasha etc !)
NEW DELHI (AP) — When the daughter of businessman Mohammed Sultan got married recently, guests were treated to a lavish 30-course meal served in super-sized silver platters.
The Kashmiri feast, prepared by an army of chefs, included more than 20 meat and kebab dishes rich with spices to go with the saffron-flavored rice and naan breads.Hours later, after the more than 500 guests had eaten their fill, the leftovers were dumped by the cartload at a nearby garbage site.As the ranks of India's wealthy surge with rapid economic growth, many families are staging extravagant displays of food at their children's weddings to show off their newfound affluence.The prodigious waste that follows has horrified many in a nation where food prices are skyrocketing and tens of millions of young children are malnourished.At the recent wedding of the son of a ruling party leader, more than a 100 dishes representing Thai, Chinese, Mediterranean and Indian cuisines were served to over 30,000 guests. About 20 percent would've been thrown away.Today, austerity is far from the minds of India's wealthy, who fly in orchids from Thailand to decorate overstuffed buffet tables.

"It's my only daughter's wedding. I don't want to stint on anything. And certainly not on food," said Alka Gupta, a businesswoman, as she studied a sheaf of menus from wedding caterers while planning her daughter's December marriage."My husband and I have worked hard all these years. Now we want a spectacular celebration to invite all our friends," she said.Sociologist Abhilasha Kumari says that for the burgeoning middle classes, making a spectacle of weddings has become quite the accepted norm.Bollywood, India's Hindi language film industry, has done much to popularize the theme of the big Indian wedding, says Kumari."Conspicuous consumption is no longer viewed with distaste as it once was under India's earlier socialist ethos," she said. "It's a new India where there are new value systems. Over-consumption is the norm."The mere idea of scaled down celebrations has, not surprisingly, prompted a host of objections from businesses who bank on big weddings.
Cutting down on the number of dishes may not be an easy task, says Nitin Luthra, a leading New Delhi caterer who has organized some of Delhi's most spectacular weddings.
"People have begun demanding exotic cuisines. What they want is a memorable evening for everyone who attends the wedding," Luthra said.Wedding planners scoffed at the idea of a cap on wedding guests as a measure to curb food shortages."It's a knee jerk reaction, a populist measure," says Ashish Abrol, a former IBM executive who in 2010 set up a wedding planning firm, Big Indian Wedding.

"ItBefore cracking down on weddings, the government plans to cut back on its own excesses. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's office has sent out letters to government departments urging austerity at seminars and conferences.And in what could prove to be a landmark initiative, the government has prepared a draft law that would make access to food a basic right of every citizen. Under the proposed law, almost 70 percent of the population would be entitled to subsidized food.
Rising food costs, coupled with steep increases this year in the price of cooking gas and gasoline, have led poor families to pare food budgets.But there are no such concerns for India's moneyed elite.Gupta, the businesswoman, says for the affluent classes, rising prices are not the overriding concern when planning a wedding."I would like to scale down things, but feel helpless. There are so many expectations riding on the children's marriage. Very often it's not in our hands," she said. "If we resort to a scaled down wedding, it could send the wrong signal to our business associates."Another problem is that most Indians don't take the R.S.V.P. seriously.Wedding planners and caterers have to be prepared for huge turnouts at wedding parties, with the danger that the food may run out. If attendance is lower than expected, that extra food is scrapped."You have no idea how many will turn up at the wedding reception, and have to plan for both contingencies," said Gupta."We would lose face, and it would look so bad, if the food ran out."
____
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

^^^
I know from inside sources in Hotels,that extra food is sold off in huge qty to bidders,who then repack the food and selll it on railway platforms,bus stands,so that it can be consumed the same day.Throwing extra food would be such a waste, this system of repacking is not new.The wasted (jhootha) food gathered from plates cannot however be repacked! It finds its way to bins where dogs have a feast and bless the couple by emitting satisfactory growls from their filled stomachs.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RamaY »

sanjeevpunj-ji,

The issue is with the world-view. There is one culture that thinks god created man and then created rest of animal/plant life for his consumption (they have no other purpose than man's pleasure). And there is another culture that thinks that the whole universe is embodiment of God and that humanity is one dimension/facet of that consciousness and it speaks like this

Thachamyo ravrunimahe.gathum yagnaya.
Gathum Yagna pathaye.Daivee swasthi –rasthu na.
Swasthir Manushebhya. Urdhwa Jigathu beshajam.
Sam no asthu dwipadhe.Sam chatush pade
Om Shanthi, shanthi, Shanthi.


We seek such assembly, we seek such action
we pray the consciousness behind such action, that makes the elements pleasant and (thru-them) results in

well-being of humans, well-being of the ones that grow upward (plants)
well-being of two-legged species (birds), and well-being of four-legged species (animals)

Aum (let it be in past/present/future and cause/action/result) peace, peace, peace (repeating three times makes it Satya vachana)
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Suhas H »

The issue with food waste occurs here in Oz as well. Everynight supermarkets and bakeries throw away huge quantities of food because they have past the "best before" date and not the expiry date. Even though they are still consumable.

So most charities collect those items everynight and distribute them to homeless people. The amount of wastage that occurs in the west is unimaginable.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by brihaspati »

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^
I know from inside sources in Hotels,that extra food is sold off in huge qty to bidders,who then repack the food and selll it on railway platforms,bus stands,so that it can be consumed the same day.Throwing extra food would be such a waste, this system of repacking is not new.The wasted (jhootha) food gathered from plates cannot however be repacked! It finds its way to bins where dogs have a feast and bless the couple by emitting satisfactory growls from their filled stomachs.
Extra food is almost always sold off at a much lower rate to those willing to consume it. Some of the earlier struggling political parties - in their grand old struggling idealist days - used to collect food from hotels after the dinner times were over - for their office nivaasi workers and activists - sometimes for free with collusion of the rudimentary restaurant workers associations. I know of some later-illustrious congressmen who did so in the pre-independence days, and at least one minister of some fame and of left background did so too.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

^^^ I can believe that.Pre-Independence days were hard.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^ I can believe that.Pre-Independence days were hard.
Till 67-68, ration card was the most important document and there use to be long lines to get subsidised grocery.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Yes, I remember standing in those lines as a kid,to get kerosene! Sometimes Sugar and Rice.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Moved to Siachen thread.
Last edited by sanjeevpunj on 22 Jul 2011 17:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Gaurav_S »

^^This article should have been in Indian Army or Siachen thread.

Pakistan a Chinese pawn to stall India
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Jarita »

^^^
The latest news by Vishwabandhu Gupta is that the Indian finance ministry signed an agreement with Swiss government not to reveal names of those who had Swiss bank accounts prior to June 26th, 2011. As a result it seems more than $2trillion of Indian money has left Swiss banks
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

Can India go the religious way of Pakistan?
( I have no word yet special word for this ..y. Please do the needful and shatter this == BS)
MIDDLE EAST, July 21, 2011 — Diaspora Indians have a choice – we can put our faith in India and return home one day, or we can look for alternatives. For those of us who want to go back, it is an ongoing dilemma, especially when India lurches from one crisis to another.But let me first try and get some perspective on the issue by asking a question.Let’s say Canada, Australia and the United States decided to drastically increase their populations and announced a new immigration policy aimed at luring educated Indians. They offer permanent resident status and subsequent citizenship without any preconditions other than a legitimate college degree. You can pick up your green card or the equivalent on arrival in any of those countries.
What do you think would happen?
We would undoubtedly witness the greatest human migration the world has ever seen. India would empty out most of its middle class population.
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... -pakistan/
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by JwalaMukhi »

^The real question is: Why do people like this author go the pakistan way? (including D'souza) i.e., pakistan said they do not want to identify anything with India and their sole identity is not-india. Similarly, this guy Frank, has defined himself as not being whatever his ancestors were, but could not yet move on. His compulsion is to look at and worry about things that he has supposedly distanced himself from. Basically, he is trying to get an identity that is based on definition of not being who or what his ancestors were.
Move on, and give it a rest. No need to feel guilty at what he has become. Moving on and doing justice to whatever that the author's identity is now should be his and his ilk's focus. But they depend on being not-something as an identity. That is for sore losers such as this author, which is the classic pakistan way.

The story of monk carrying a beautiful nymph across the river and letting her go on the river bank, but not the other guy who still carries that in the mind... and all.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by chetak »

Things best left alone
There are numerous instances of those looking for sacred treasure dying a mysterious death. It’s best not to play Indiana Jones.

It is almost certain the death of TP Sunderrajan, the devotee who petitioned the courts and triggered the opening of the secret vaults of Thiruvananthapuram’s Sree Padmanabha- swamy Temple, is unconnected with the recent tabulation of valuables. Sunderrajan died earlier this month of natural causes (he was 70).

Yet his death was an interesting coincidence. It occurred just days after the Supreme Court was told by a lawyer appearing for the traditional custodians of the temple that the sixth and final vault should not be opened. To do so without undertaking remedial pujas and rituals would be to invite ill-fortune. At least that is the local belief.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by brihaspati »

^^^Interesting! Actually plenty of material to psyche out potential Jones's :mrgreen:
(1) The Yamini dynasty of Sabuktigin/Mahmud - hounded out by the Ghori brother avenging his supposed elder's torture and death, capital built on looted Indian money worth crores even in those days [17 crores?] completely burnt off in one single campaign - and the last scion called out on a treaty negotiation and murdered. Gone, gone, going...the yamini highway! Curse of "somnath"? [I meant the Hindu somnath of Gujarata origins - just in case people confuse with any currently living ones!]
(2) Ghori - in turn - dispatched by rebels, dependent on "slaves" to carry on the dynasty - no "issue"! plenty of temple/idol destruction on hand.
(3) Follow through the Delhi Turko-Afghan "sultans" - the more temple/idol destruction fame - greater the penalties on self or even more on next gen. Alauddin's case is even more spectacular.
(4) Mughals - end of dynasty by hanging. Most had pretty interesting last days too - from as early as Humayun, who died supposedly by what Hindus would call "apaghaat". Since corrective rites were not done for him he is still could to be around - theoretically speaking. Has anyone felt him walking about with a broken neck around the library on the old Pandava grounds?
(5) Jinnah - well did he really pass away?

The theory goes that "sins" of the ancestor is so much to be feared because it visits the descendants manifolds! Should be good value pointers towards wannabe Pakis! :mrgreen:

Forgot
(0) Qasim the Paqi hero of "rape of Devala" fame - claimed to have been wrapped in raw hide [which would constrict as it dries] and then used as a pin-cushion with big nails instead of pins - for allegedly putting up the captured Sindhi princesses for the personal pleasures of the oh-so-spiritual Caliph - who in turn found out that the flowers' scent had already been smelled while being shipped from Sindh and thus insulting his spiritual-highness with used dishes.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Manny »

India's fastest Billionaire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStbVLNj2ng
sanjeevpunj
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Manny wrote:India's fastest Billionaire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStbVLNj2ng
This guy seems to be escaping the anti-corruption squad.The press should get his goat.
Robert Vadra operates an antique store in Italy. He had a store in New Delhi.It is possible he makes money selling idols stolen in India.Antique shop owners depend a lot on theives who steal stuff from museums,temples and other historically crucial places.IMO this man must be investigated thoroughly.Being Priyanka's husband gives him the protection of Dynasty.

More dope on this guy-

Robert Vadra’s entry into the real estate business has been accompanied by a partnership with the country’s largest realty firm, DLF Ltd, a staggering feat by any standards (The Economic Times, 14 March 2011). Hitherto known for the export of faux jewellery and handicrafts, the 42-year-old Vadra quietly switched lanes in 2008, buying up land in Haryana and Rajasthan, a 50% stake in a leading business hotel in Delhi, and attempting to enter the business of chartering aircraft, a quantum jump that certainly merits an explanation.
Vadra seems to have floated a number of companies, some of which have received unsecured loans from the DLF group companies, including the Bombay Stock Exchange-listed flagship DLF Ltd. Readers may recall that during investigations into the Spectrum Scam, the CBI found that a number of non-entity (shell) companies had received and passed on unsecured loans that ended up in Kalaignar TV! It believes these were bribes received against the sale of spectrum at throwaway prices, and that the loans would ultimately be cancelled as ‘bad debt’ and the slate wiped clean. Thus, Vadra’s receipt of unsecured loans certainly merits a probe.
Sky Light Hospitality Pvt. Ltd. (wholly owned by Vadra and his mother Maureen Vadra) is a partner, along with DLF Hotel Holdings and others, in a partnership firm that owns the posh Hilton Garden Inn in Saket.
DLF’s generous loans to Vadra companies, some without collateral, include:
- As on March 2009, Sky Light Hospitality had received unsecured loans amounting to Rs 25 crore from DLF Ltd.
- As on March 2010, only Rs 10 crore remained. It was unclear from the statement of accounts if the rest was paid back or written off.
- Sky Light Hospitality in turn loaned money to other Vadra-owned companies such as Blue Breeze Trading Pvt. Ltd, North India IT Parks Pvt. Ltd, Real Earth Estates Pvt. Ltd and Sky Light Realty Pvt. Ltd.

Source:http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/201 ... dhya-jain/

Rahul and Robert share a passion for sports, and Robert was once known to have said this -
"But I don`t interfere in his (Rahul`s) politics and he doesn`t interfere in my business," Vadra stressed. "I don`t tell him who to include in his team and he doesn`t tell me who to hire. I know my
business and he knows his."
Sounds like a cool deal - "You let me make my money, I don't mess in your politics"
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

Indian women tweak their SlutWalk
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... story.html
The
walk, conceived as a protest against a Canadian police officer who advised women to “avoid dressing like sluts” if they want to be safe from sexual assault, has elsewhere involved women dressing as provocatively as they please. But in India, the SlutWalk set for July 31 is getting a makeover, with student organizers saying they have tweaked the original concept to better match India’s conservative social palette. The confrontational “slut” has been softened by adding the Hindi word for “shamelessness” to the event’s title. Women have been asked to march in their regular clothes. And weekly public debates and street theater are being promoted even more energetically than the walk itself.
Rather than focusing on clothes, the campaign is questioning gender stereotypes embedded in ancient Hindu religious epics, Bollywood movies and sexist matrimonial classified ads. “There will be no dress code” for the march, said Umang Sabarwal, 19, the event’s chief organizer. “In India, no matter what we wear, even if we are covered head to toe in a sari or a burqa, we get molested and raped. A woman’s fight in India is more basic — it is a fight for the right to be born, education, nutritious food, work.”
New Delhi has reported 258 cases of rape or molestation through June this year, and women in the city routinely face harassment in buses and on the metro system. SlutWalk Delhi has Twitter and Facebook accounts, but in an effort to be more inclusive, march organizers have also begun distributing pamphlets, titled “Speak Up,” among women in the city.“We want to reach a larger audience, beyond the campus and the Facebook crowd,” said Mishika Singh, a 20-year-old law student and a walk coordinator.
“I agree with the cause, but the packaging is wrong,” said Ranjana Kumari, a leading feminist who heads the Center for Social Research. “I tried to counsel the students not to alienate the majority of Indian women. The Indian feminist movement took many decades to recover from the damage caused by the American bra-tossing campaigns. Let us not ape the West unnecessarily and trivialize our fight.”“
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by chetak »

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^
I know from inside sources in Hotels,that extra food is sold off in huge qty to bidders,who then repack the food and selll it on railway platforms,bus stands,so that it can be consumed the same day.Throwing extra food would be such a waste, this system of repacking is not new.The wasted (jhootha) food gathered from plates cannot however be repacked! It finds its way to bins where dogs have a feast and bless the couple by emitting satisfactory growls from their filled stomachs.
And thereafter deposit suitable odorous encomiums on various footpaths and roads where it will by force be appreiated by one and all. :)
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