Indian Interests

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rkirankr
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Re: Indian Interests

Postby rkirankr » 27 Apr 2010 12:03

^^ Tharoor's first wife is a canadian. Isn't there a law which bars citizens of India from occupying high offices if their spouses are not Indian?

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby derkonig » 27 Apr 2010 13:48

^^^^
There is no such law for a good reason (read "first family")

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 27 Apr 2010 19:56

Hari Seldon wrote:What baffled observers, however, was his mesmeric hold on 10 Janpath and 7 Race Course Road, which made both authorities visibly reluctant to hasten his exit. Whispers circulated that Mr Tharoor obliged the ruling party by fiddling names listed in the Volcker Report on beneficiaries of Saddam Hussain’s oil-for-food programme mandated by the UN. Mr D Raja of the CPI wondered why the Congress leadership chose to project him as India’s candidate for the UN Secretary-General’s post, for which he was too junior, being merely communications chief at the UN and not in any policy-making department.
.....

Wow, Ms Jain has got substance, seems like. Even if I may not agree 400% with her every word. I have to say she is no empty talking head.


Even if Tharoor has been fiddling with the Volcker report, the facts of the case will be known to Mr Volcker, who is closely linked to the Rockefellers, and through them to the syndicate of western plutocrats.

This is the sort of thing that makes it difficult for India to exercise any independence.
Last edited by Pranav on 27 Apr 2010 22:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby svinayak » 27 Apr 2010 22:12

Pranav wrote:
Even if Tharoor has been fiddling with the Volcker report, the facts of the case will be known the Mr Volcker, who is closely linked to the Rockefellers, and through them to the syndicate of western plutocrats.

This is the sort of thing that makes it difficult for India to exercise any independence.

How do you think the UN chief appointment is done. Without the backing of these kind of powerbrokers nothing happens.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Shivlal Vedhavani » 27 Apr 2010 22:19

India has always been ruled by Emigrants and now even more so. The elite are all emigrants out make a pound..

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby RamaY » 27 Apr 2010 22:44

One way is for nationalistic emigrants to return to India and participate.

The best way is for invigorate domestic nationalistic leaders and the emigrants act as the extended Rashtra in Karma Bhoomi.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby svinayak » 27 Apr 2010 23:24

RamaY wrote:
The best way is for invigorate domestic nationalistic leaders and the emigrants act as the extended Rashtra in Karma Bhoomi.

That is what all other nationalities do.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramana » 28 Apr 2010 01:34

RamaY wrote:One way is for nationalistic emigrants to return to India and participate.

The best way is for invigorate domestic nationalistic leaders and the emigrants act as the extended Rashtra in Karma Bhoomi.


The early Indian freedom fighters were also returnees. Check out where MK Gandhiji developed his ideas.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Muppalla » 28 Apr 2010 01:39

AjayKK wrote:
Muppalla wrote:I don't know but I have a feeling that MMS is being put on exit mode. The phone tapping expose in Outlook may be a plant by some Gandhi family friends to get the handle to exit him. The media is firmly in the clutches of Gandhi family and something against government especially in the Outlook magzine is unbeleivable. pressure cooker has overcooked in UPA-2. Even with 208 seats they are strugling more that UPA-1. Just my thoughts.


The Outlook article does not seem to harm the position or aura of the PM. It seems to send a message to the three leaders, Sharad Pawar, Nitish Kumar and Prakash Karat.

When are the cut motions (with voting ?) of the Opposition parties coming? The chief party in the UPA 2 seems to be in a hurry to cut its allies-opponents like Sharad Pawar to size by adopting a Big brother attitude. It is also cutting deals with others like Mayawati though.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/626711_No-danger-to-Government--Congress-on-cut-motion




http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/ ... e-govt.htm
Read it all. UPA-2 instead of having a great majority as compared to UPA-1. Their woes are same with Left replaced with Mamta and they are still dependent on SP, RJD and BSP. BSP bailed them out.

There is nothing special in the following quote :)

But the biggest story to emerge out of the Lok Sabha trial of strength was the manner in which Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and Congress President Sonia Gandhi completely ignored each other for one-and-a half hours during their stay in the House. The PM was at his seat, with his hands folded and simply looked sternly ahead, with no one coming upto him and talking to him. Neither did he make any efforts to participate in the animated discussions going on all around him.

Sitting between the PM and Sonia Gandhi was the leader of the House Pranab Mukherjee. Sonia Gandhi and Mukherjee were often seen in animated conversation with each other, with the Congress president turning to him a number of times. But not once did she lean across to put in a simple word to the prime minister. One is not sure if this is accidental or intentional.


This is what my suspicion was when I read the telephone tapping news. I never had for even single moment thought that the leak was from anyone other than due to the approval from Gandhis. There are certain undercurrent in UPA-2 that are not looking good for MMS. He seems to be independent and not looking at politics. May be he is thinking that there should be no compulsions to governance as comfort level is there. His policies especially related to "Talks with TSP", "no nonsense approach to naxals" are not going well with the INC establishment.

We do not know if MMS has anything to pulloff and also become realllly independent.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Prem » 28 Apr 2010 01:50

ramana wrote:
RamaY wrote:One way is for nationalistic emigrants to return to India and participate.

The best way is for invigorate domestic nationalistic leaders and the emigrants act as the extended Rashtra in Karma Bhoomi.


The early Indian freedom fighters were also returnees. Check out where MK Gandhiji developed his ideas.


And the Gadarite Babas who started from the Bay Area.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 28 Apr 2010 09:47

Muppalla wrote:
But the biggest story to emerge out of the Lok Sabha trial of strength was the manner in which Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and Congress President Sonia Gandhi completely ignored each other for one-and-a half hours during their stay in the House. The PM was at his seat, with his hands folded and simply looked sternly ahead, with no one coming upto him and talking to him. Neither did he make any efforts to participate in the animated discussions going on all around him.

Sitting between the PM and Sonia Gandhi was the leader of the House Pranab Mukherjee. Sonia Gandhi and Mukherjee were often seen in animated conversation with each other, with the Congress president turning to him a number of times. But not once did she lean across to put in a simple word to the prime minister. One is not sure if this is accidental or intentional.


This is what my suspicion was when I read the telephone tapping news. I never had for even single moment thought that the leak was from anyone other than due to the approval from Gandhis. There are certain undercurrent in UPA-2 that are not looking good for MMS. He seems to be independent and not looking at politics. May be he is thinking that there should be no compulsions to governance as comfort level is there. His policies especially related to "Talks with TSP", "no nonsense approach to naxals" are not going well with the INC establishment.

We do not know if MMS has anything to pulloff and also become realllly independent.


Good analysis and good questions. Is it safe to assume talks with TSP are in line with US agenda? Also, what about Indian Journalists being taken around Bajaur by Pak Army? Is there any attempt at signalling here?

What about the agenda of being tough on Maoists? Are PC and MMS on the same page? Indications are that Sonia coterie is soft on Maoists.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Hari Seldon » 28 Apr 2010 10:16

What about the agenda of being tough on Maoists? Are PC and MMS on the same page? Indications are that Sonia coterie is soft on Maoists.


That should come with a rider, IMHO.

Soft on the maoists *only* in non-INC ruled states such as WB, Orissa, Jharkhand and CT, IMO. Not so in AP if you recall. MH is hard to understand thanks to NCP handling the Home portfolio. In Guj, recently, a former INC MP was involved in raiding a police thana to free a known maoist.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 28 Apr 2010 12:08

Here is some news from about a month ago:

Sonia Gandhi to head National Advisory Council : http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... 6220100330

It does seem that Sonia is getting restless, for whatever reason.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby RamaY » 29 Apr 2010 00:35

Hari Seldon wrote:
What about the agenda of being tough on Maoists? Are PC and MMS on the same page? Indications are that Sonia coterie is soft on Maoists.


That should come with a rider, IMHO.

Soft on the maoists *only* in non-INC ruled states such as WB, Orissa, Jharkhand and CT, IMO. Not so in AP if you recall. MH is hard to understand thanks to NCP handling the Home portfolio. In Guj, recently, a former INC MP was involved in raiding a police thana to free a known maoist.


I doubt this classification is still valid. Things have changed in the past 10 years. Now Maoists lay low in INC ruled states and create law-and-order issues in non-Inc states.

I would impose this change of strategy on BJP/NDA's winning general elections in 1998. Before that, maoists had only one enemy, the state - represented by mostly INC govts. The realization of an alternative political center forced some realignments especially in the international scene.

I suspect this was the main reason the maoist leaders were left uncaught in 2005 in AP jungles.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Jarita » 29 Apr 2010 01:10

Looks like Rahul Mehta was right about the MNC-politician-Media-NGO-Industrialist nexus.
Look at the names in the CBI report posted by Hindu

http://beta.thehindu.com/multimedia/arc ... 11165a.pdf

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Muppalla » 29 Apr 2010 04:54

Jarita wrote:Looks like Rahul Mehta was right about the MNC-politician-Media-NGO-Industrialist nexus.
Look at the names in the CBI report posted by Hindu

http://beta.thehindu.com/multimedia/arc ... 11165a.pdf


A.Raja of DMK is the greatest of the greatest who can just do anything he wants and still be the same minister. He was telecom minister in UPA-1 and all these cases are there even then and even now. The UPA-2 just is not ready to remove him and there is no shame even in DMK to just keep him as one of their quota as though they do not have anyone. See the situation, even MMS, Sonia etc or DMK leaders does not even try to look good.

In the 80s and 90s the media was very strong and used to expose the corruption inspite of extremely powerful leadership like Indira and Rajiv and now media is part of the corruption. There is no single instrument in India to even expose someone. The corruption ranking is :
(1) Judiciary
(2) Media
(3) political power
(4) Rest

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Jarita » 29 Apr 2010 09:13

Looks like CBI report was removed .. So here is a saved text version

http://pastebin.com/ir3fyDQb

Too many names - Barkha Dutta and Vir Sanghvi included

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby AjayKK » 29 Apr 2010 12:57

Jarita wrote:Looks like CBI report was removed .. So here is a saved text version

http://pastebin.com/ir3fyDQb

Too many names - Barkha Dutta and Vir Sanghvi included


Thanks for posting this. It appears that the lady has links to enforce policy changes and is close to various people in power. The names of companies and individuals in the document fishing around is mind boggling :eek:

And our Burkhas are negotiating for posts for DMK. Not for nothing are they called Dilli Billis.

The document :http://www.scribd.com/doc/30650976/CBI-ACB-report-on-2G-Spectrum-Scam

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2010 21:59

Another good post by Atri in the Partition thread. And follow-up by Pulikeshi

-----------------------
Pulikeshi wrote:The question to ask oneself is when did the partition of Bharat begin?
There are tomes written on the partition of British India in 1947.
While theories are all interesting, it is still about the latter not the former.


I would say partition was proposed when Najib invited Abdali in 1757 and the process actually began on 14th January 1761 on the plains of Panipat.. I think we really need to understand the Mughal-Maratha dynamics for complete grasp of the phenomenon of partition.

The key figures here are

1. Mughals (and last of them, Aurangzeb).
2. Pathan lobby from upper gangetic plains, Punjab, AFG and Iran)
3. Mullahs like Shah Wali and Sirhindi
4. Marathas
5. other Hindus in the region (Jats, Sikhs, Rajputs etc).

The antagonism between Pashtoons and Central Asians is legendary. Even today, the local saying goes like,"where anger and revenge of pathan ends, love of a tajik begins". This says a lot about their interactions. Central asians are the true "Bete Noir" of Indian civlization throughout the history's current. There are three blocks of populations which we must understand here.

a. Outer tier - Central asian block - Turks, Tajiks, Mongols, Kazaks etc. I like to talk in terms of river basins, hence the region beyond the Bakshu river (Oxus/Amu darya).
b. second tier - Pathans (southern afghanistan and NWFP - the lands between Sindhu and Kubha (Kabul) rivers (Or some times Amudarya).
c. Third tier - Punjab - Attock to Delhi and Jammu to Multan.
d. Fourth tier - Gangetic plains (the historical core - geographical and for considerable amount of time, civilizational)

When we speak of foreign invasions on India, it refers to people from the Outer tiers (Iran and trans Oxus regions) invading India. That means, the attack of Central Asians on Pathans is considered as foreign invasion. Hence Greeks, Bactrians, Scythians, Kushans, Huns, Arabs, Mongols, Mughals, Persians, British were undoubtedly "foreign in origin" and so was their incursion of subsequent tiers of India.

But when we count the total time the geographical core (Not the civilizational one which shifts) was under occupation "ethnic foreign people", it turns out to be not more than 800 years in the course of documented 5000 years of Indian history since times of IVC (not considering MBH as history just for sake of argument). Out of those 800 years, 500 are in past millennium. That is, only 18% of time, Indic core was under foreign domination.

The problem arose with Islamization of Afghanistan. Afghanistan resisted islamization for 250 years after fall of Iran. It was within 20 years of fall of Gazni (which was being ruled by Raja Shiladitya), Mehmood invaded the core and consolidated frontier of India along with outer regions. However, it is the trait of power-centre of frontiers to periodically seek expansion into Sindhu basin and vice-versa. Following that trait, Mehmood of Gazni, Muhammad Ghori, subsequent sultans of Delhi until Babar followed that tradition. The rule of the "core" was in hands of people who were ethnically Indians but culturally alienated. This is popularly known as "The Pathan Lobby".

The game-changer was First Battle of Panipat when an outsider displaced this entrenched Pathan lobby and consolidated the power of the core. The lobby of Pathans and Rajputs struck back and overthrew this foreign domination. There was internal dynamics to this struggle as well. Pathans (of Babur and Humayun's era) were alienated Hindus. Rajputs were defenders of Indic culture. Just as Rajput-Pathan lobby threw out ethnic outsider (Mughal/Mongol), Rajputs later overthrew the cultural outsiders too (Hemu Vikramaditya taming Lodis). Here we see the power-dynamics between Indians and foreigners and amongst Indians themselves (Indics and alienated Indics).

The Mongols/Mughals struck back in Second Battle of Panipat, this time successfully acquiring the throne and consolidating vast stretches of lands for long time period keeping the traditional aspirants of the power, away from the power. The Pathan lobby and Rajput lobby is beautifully handled by Akbar, Jahangir, Shahjahan and Aurangzeb and played against each other, keeping them preoccupied.

In 1681, when Aurangzeb descended on Deccan with full might of Mughal empire, the entrenched lobby of Pathans saw their chance to win what was rightfully theirs. Rajputs were deracinated by then and were out of power-struggle. It is here when the dynamics of "Islam" comes into picture. The traditional habit of Ulema to stay close to power-centre of region paid off when the regions of Awadh, Rohilkhand and Braj started making tremendous profits out of Deccan war of 27 years, when rest of India was suffering and revenues plummeting. The revenue and produce of Bengal and Odisha dropped by sharp 70% from 1690 to 1700, that is within 10 years. In same 10 years, the war-profits of western UP and Awadh (mostly dominated by Pathan lobby) increased by 67%.

Thus, after death of Aurangzeb in 1707, within few years of confusion, the chance begins to appear before Pathan lobby to usurp the long lost power. Ulema was quiet and indifferent as they do not care who the ruler is, as long as he is Islamic and is patronizing them and their quest of conversion. The first move was made by Sayyid Brothers to dethrone the Mughal successor of Aurangzeb to much more pliable successor. These brothers were the working towards restoration of Mughal (and their own) domination on north India. They managed to quell the discontent in Rajputana and rest of India, they had to give entry to an unlikely player in the game - The Marathas.

The events of similar to those prior to Second Battle of Panipat - just like Rajput-Pathan lobby tried to overthrow Mongol influence out of India, Maratha-Pathan lobby did actually manage that. After Mughals were overthrown, the internal Maratha-Pathan dynamics unravelled just like Rajput-Pathan dynamics of Hemu era. If Hemu were victorious at Panipat, he would have had to fight off Pathans just like Marathas did.

Almost all the regions which was previously under Mughal empire smoothly passed on to Marathas as protectorate. This however does not include the Braj, Awadh and eastern Bengal and Punjab, Sindh and NWFP. This is when Shah Wali started making noises about the danger that Islam will be in.

While Marathas were waiting to establish their legitimacy as natural successors to Mughals, the Pathan lobby was busy organizing their own revival. The opportunity came in 1740 when Nadir Shah invaded India. Bajirao-1 was in south, hence no army which was big enough to stop Nadir shah, was stationed in Punjab. Ahmadshah Abdali was one of the commanders of Nadir Shah in this campaign. After Nadir's assassination, and Abdali's ascension, pathans of gangetic plains contacted abdali to invade and occupy the land so as to create a continuous pathan ruled state. By Shah wali, this was given a religious overtone as "jihad" against kafir Marathas.

One has to understand the global perspective of the decade of 1750's to see the roots of partition of India. The kingdom of Pathans from Caspian sea to Bengal was in making. The kingdom from Punjab to Tamil-nadu of Marathas was in making. EIC was a small force then. This chance of establishment of Pathan kingdom was antagonistic to India and Marathas and vice versa.

Panipat ended in stalemate. All the dreams of Pathan lobby and Ulema were vanished. Marathas continued to expand but not with earlier zeal and power. Sikhs rose but could not give a sustainable dynasty to consolidate Punjab and NWFP. Eventually British took over the administration of India in 1818 and after 150 years, India was partitioned.

To fill the gaps in between, one has to understand this lost dream of Ulema (primarily based in westen UP) which was using Pathan lobby's political ambition to establish earlier Islamic dominance of Mughal era. This dejected Ulema mobilized the funds, influence, private armies and support of zamindars and local power-satraps of Indo-Gangetic plains under Muslim league, when chips were down. The dream was truly shattered on plains of Panipat and ironically, that heart-break came in form of victory. Hence the need to reclaim this victory and establish islamic state so fondly cherished by many people from this region. This need of alienated Indics and foreign ideology using them to find a incubator to relaunch their efforts which were stalled at Panipat, marks the beginning of partition. The man who established Darul Ulum Deoband was grandson of Shah Waliullah himself.

Figures say that since Islamization of Afghanistan, Pathans and later Pakjabis (which are ethnically Indians) were more detrimental to India and Indic civilization than foreign rulers (Mughals except Aurangzeb and British). The inner Vibhishana has been more detrimental to India than outer Vaanaras.

Successor of Hemu's India and Maratha's India is modern Republic of India. The aim which Hemu (Rajputs) and Marathas tried to achieve was five-fold.

1. to overthrow the influence of a visible foreign power (with or without the help of alienated Indians (Pathans, Pakjabis)
2. to defeat alienated Indians and overthrow their influence on policies of India and her core.
3. To reconquer the territory currently occupied by alienated Indians
4. To establish Indic system of socio-political and economics in reconquered/consolidated territory.
5. To bring alienated Indians back to Indian fold.

The fourth and fifth point has to happen simultaneously along with first three, which happen in the given order.

Hemu succeeded in overthrowing foreign power temporarily.

Marathas succeeded in overthrowing the foreign power permanently and overthrow the influence of alienated Indians on the territories and policies of India. Marathas tried to win back territory (Attock campaign) but not for long (only 19 months). They tried to implement Indic system of governance and remove foreign influence but not uniformly.

INC (with help of other nationalists) overthrew a visible foreign power. Republic of India (ROI) overthrew the influence of alienated Indians from core territory and policy-making of ROI. ROI has established a system of governance which is largely Indic and partially Western (Similar to Marathas). ROI has partially quarantined the alienated Indian lobby in its western and north-western regions like Marathas had it quarantined in Western UP. So, ROI stands at position where Marathas were in 1760. Thankfully, owing to democracy, the early deaths of good leaders won't harm ROI in a way it harmed Maratha-India.

Just like the global politics then, the internal lobby of alienated Indians trying to establish a continuous state. That lobby is being used by a foreign ideology which aims for uniform society without state and class. ROI is the only player which stands in its way.

Uthista Bharata!

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Jarita » 29 Apr 2010 23:30

AjayKK wrote:Thanks for posting this. It appears that the lady has links to enforce policy changes and is close to various people in power. The names of companies and individuals in the document fishing around is mind boggling :eek:


The document :http://www.scribd.com/doc/30650976/CBI-ACB-report-on-2G-Spectrum-Scam



Errrrr... cough cough.. yes she is very very close to some people in power

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramdas » 30 Apr 2010 05:58

Ramanaji,

When you say the current ROI is like Marathas of 1760, are u taking into account that with MMS--->Rahul Gandhi, we are once more transitioning into a subtle form of foreign rule ? How will Utthistha Bharata happen in these circumstances ?

Will we ever throw aside these restraints in pursuing national power and pursue it single mindedly ? Does such a political leadership appear visible even on the horizon ?

We have rumors of sellouts to TSP in few months....With Rahul gandhi types waiting in the wings, is'nt there a danger of our undergoing strategic neutering (ending up as a poodle of foreign powers) ? Are we doomed to practise this self humiliation of national ahimsa forever ?

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramdas » 30 Apr 2010 06:01

To summarize, Ramanji, I see that the positive trends you are mentioning are reversing in the last few years. There is increasing say that alienated minorities are having in core policy making since the UPA came to power and consolidated itself. No reaction is forthcoming from the core indic society because they are brainwashed by media propaganda. How can this be tackled ?

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 07:43

First of all the credit goes to Atri whose post i x-posted. I didn't use quote feature as it shrinks the text and makes it an eye chart.

As for RG lets see.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby svinayak » 30 Apr 2010 07:53

ramdas wrote: How will Utthistha Bharata happen in these circumstances ?

I will put a list and one has to go thru the list and answer it for Bharat.



+ Grand strategy is about LONG-TERM interests, not a single Administration's "legacy."

+ Grand strategy demands the integration of the political, economic, and military distinguishes among:
- Political-legal-military
- Socio-economic
- Ideo-cultural
- Techno-demographic
- Natural-geographic

The ten grand strategy LONG-TERM policies are:
- Agriculture
- Diplomacy
- Economy
- Education
- Energy
- Family
- Health
- Immigration
- Justice
- Security
- Society
- Water

+ Moral resources join human and technical and economic resources as being fundamental to ways and means.

+ Husbanding and managing natural resources for the long-term is vital.

+ Diplomacy is vital

+ Flexibility and frequent adaptation are essential

+ A true grand strategy has at least as much to do about maintaining a prosperous peace as it does with executing a costly war.

+ Balance in all things among military and non-military, short and long term etc. is critical attribute of sound grand strategy.

+ The elements of grand strategy have a multiplier effect on one another. If they are left unattended, the Nation hollows out.

+ Armed forces should be able to deal with multiple contingencies, not just a worst case scenario

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Masaru » 30 Apr 2010 08:42

Another western academic's verdict on what India is with respect to China and the world. It could be referenced in multiple threads!

Unlike China, wariness marks India's ascent

Some countries are naturally at ease with the concept and the reality of strategic power. Such was clearly the case of France under Louis XIV, the Sun King in the 17th century, and such is the case today of China, whose leadership is comfortable with the balance-of-power games of classical Europe.

India is clearly in a different category. Yet, in order to understand India's political and diplomatic relationship with the outside world, the most enlightening comparison is with America in 1920. Like the United States after World War I, India is realizing that its status and role in the world have been deeply transformed in the last two decades. And, like America then, India is not naturally at ease with the notion of exercising global power.

India's history and culture, from Asoka, its mythical emperor in the third century B.C.{What is mythical about Ashoka? :rotfl: This is just a reflection on the depth of this academic's knowledge and the weight of his arguments,}, to Gandhi, push it to emphasize ethics and to consider itself an "exceptional" nation in its relationship with the world. Contrary to China, India finds it difficult to adapt to its status as an emerging "Great Power." It would be a gross exaggeration, of course, to speak of an Indian "inferiority complex." And yet India constantly measures itself against China, remains obsessed with Pakistan, and has recently begun to look more critically at its relationship with the U.S.


On PRC
It is natural for India to proclaim its "democratic" superiority to China while recognizing that on all strategic fronts it is not in the same league. But is it even possible to draw a comparison between what one Indian academic has called the "robotized Chinese man" and the vast human diversity of India?

India seems to worry more than ever about China's evolution. China's key role within the G20, together with the relative if not absolute decline of the Western powers, seems to have reinforced the hardliners in Beijing and the nationalism of a China that seems less ready than ever to accept any criticism of its human rights record. Viewed from New Delhi, the vision of a reasonable, prudent and ultimately satisfied China — a vision "sold" to the world by the minister mentor of Singapore Lee Kuan Yew — appears less than obvious.



On TSP and USA
When it comes to Pakistan, too, India seems to lack confidence. On all fronts — demographic, economic, military and political — India is far above Pakistan. But India does not seem to know how to deal with its northwestern neighbor, and even less whom to deal with in its government.

If India seems not to believe that America and its allies can really "succeed" in Afghanistan, nor is it willing to resign itself to a return of the Taliban to power, which could in turn lead to Talibanization of Pakistan. Yet India seems to behave in a very "European" way in Afghanistan; it is ready to send money and experts, but not troops.

India's worries and frustrations in Afghanistan and Pakistan translate into a mixture of disillusion and irritation with an America that, seen from New Delhi, allows itself to be manipulated by Pakistani officials. Indians cannot quite decide whether the Americans are simply "naive" or duplicitous; either way, they are not reassured.


Final verdict :)

India's unease about strategic power, and its resemblance to a gigantic European Union united only by the English language, reflects its ongoing search for a new international identity. In this quest, India is impaired by its lack of practice in the exercise of power on a grand scale. India is not about to become a second China — it lacks both the means and the ambition.
Last edited by Masaru on 30 Apr 2010 09:43, edited 1 time in total.

Pranav
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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 30 Apr 2010 08:48

Masaru wrote:Another western academic's verdict on what India is with respect to China and the world. It could be referenced in multiple threads!

Unlike China, wariness marks India's ascent

India's unease about strategic power, and its resemblance to a gigantic European Union united only by the English language, reflects its ongoing search for a new international identity. In this quest, India is impaired by its lack of practice in the exercise of power on a grand scale. India is not about to become a second China — it lacks both the means and the ambition.


India is united by not by English but by Bharatiya Sanskriti, and that is something these western academics do not want to recognize.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Masaru » 30 Apr 2010 09:45

Pranav wrote:
Masaru wrote:Another western academic's verdict on what India is with respect to China and the world. It could be referenced in multiple threads!

India is united by not by English but by Bharatiya Sanskriti, and that is something these western academics do not want to recognize.


When he says that Ashoka was a mythical emperor one should realize his 'expertise' in the matters commenting about India's past, present and future! Posted nonetheless to illustrate the thinking process of some so called Harvard academicians.
Last edited by Masaru on 30 Apr 2010 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby csharma » 30 Apr 2010 09:45

Can a country where 10% of the population speak English (most of those who speak English as second language) hold together by English alone?

What kind of stupid analysis is that? Most Indians from various parts of India speak Hindi when they get together with some exceptions of course. Even when they do not speak Hindi and converse in english, it is not the language that binds them.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Dhiman » 30 Apr 2010 12:49

Pranav wrote:Usually, imperialists carry out their subversion in very gradual stages. Let us look at what has happened so far, and extrapolate how this process might continue in India. It is speculative, but it is based on historical experience.


Same thing about "Globalization". After all the first global corporation was East India Company which was more interested in welfare of its shareholders rather than the people of the lands it ruled and exploited. With the demise of imperialism, globalization took a big hit as well. But whatever you call it, Gandhi's dream of a self-sufficient village and "empowered" life revolving around that through local panchayati raj is definitely a target in this new age of somewhat "financially troubled" globalization.

All local production, consumption, supply, and employment decisions will be made hundreds if not thousands of kilometers away (but not by local shopkeeper and his local supplier and local producer who are largely subject to local whims and fancies). Local political, religious, social, and cultural quirks become barriers that must be broken down either consciously or sub consciously by global corporation through direct or indirect political influence, investments, and bribes as this ensure more efficient processes, more reliable raw material sources, and opening of markets, and creation of demand in consumer oriented psyche which ultimately lead to power shifting away from local people to headquarters and major shareholders of global corporations or to entities that control and influence these global corporations.

While East India Company's goal was to increase value to their shareholders at the expense of their employees (i.e Indians which the company ruled) and their customers (i.e forcefully feeding opium to Chinese), current day global corporations and the governments that these global corporation pay tax to + other global corporations that serve as major customers of these global corporation consider themselves as a bit more ethical, but still go to great lengths (political influence, bribes, etc) to protect their (i.e shareholders) company interests at the expense of local interests. So make no mistake about it, while globalization may lead to much touted increased standards of living, it always comes at the expense of individual and local freedom with each successive generation willing to give up more and more freedom in return of latest fad product.

The people are not giving up freedom, its just that globalization is changing the definition of what "freedom" at individual and local, and country level means. Ultimately freedom will rest will people at the top of globalization food chain but not in village panchayat committee.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby JwalaMukhi » 30 Apr 2010 13:23

Pranav wrote:Unlike China, wariness marks India's ascent

India's unease about strategic power, and its resemblance to a gigantic European Union united only by the English language, reflects its ongoing search for a new international identity. In this quest, India is impaired by its lack of practice in the exercise of power on a grand scale. India is not about to become a second China — it lacks both the means and the ambition.

India is united by not by English but by Bharatiya Sanskriti, and that is something these western academics do not want to recognize.


Western academics very well recognize Bharatiya Sanskriti and is exteremely worried about that. Hence all the machinations and circus to go to extreme lengths to villify that. What western academics want is to create a condition and discourse, so that actually Indians do not recognize Bharatiya sanskriti. They would want Indians to not believe in Bharatiya Sanskriti. That's the goal and towards that end; apart from intellecutal dishonesty, even the bare minimum academic honesty and integrity are thrown to the wind.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 30 Apr 2010 15:25

N. Modi makes an interesting quotation from Ambedkar in a recent speech:

'Congress misleading Dalits by misquoting CM on Ambedkar'

DNAHM31162 | 4/30/2010 | Author : DNA Correspondent | WC :286 | Politics & Governance


State government spokespersons Jaynarayan Vyas and Saurabh Patel have categorically rejected allegations made by the state Congress unit regarding the allegedly derogatory remarks by chief minister Narendra Modi on the Dalit community and Dr BR Ambedkar.

The state Congress had claimed that the CM has called the Dalit community 'mentally retarded', has made damaging comments about Ambedkar and has misquoted him in the event of his book release (about community harmony) last Monday.

The spokespersons, in their statement and media briefing, said, "A controversy has been deliberately and politically spun around what the CM said regarding Dr Ambedkar. The CM has not made any negative comments about Dalits or Dr Ambedkar. Audio and video CDs of the CM's speech are available as proof, and there is nothing negative in the book either. The state Congress is misquoting the CM to provoke the Dalit community. Everyone is aware of the Congress' 'divide and rule' policy and of the atrocities the Congress had perpetrated in their 45 year-long rule".

Regarding the CM's comments on why Ambedkar adopted Buddhism and not any other religion, the spokespersons said that the CM had simply quoted Ambedkar's own statement made on July 24, 1936 in a newspaper.

The said quote by Ambedkar says, "If the depressed classes join Islam or Christianity, they exit not only the Hindu religion but also the Hindu culture. Conversion to Islam or Christianity will denationalise the depressed classes. If they switch to Islam, the number of Muslims will be doubled and the danger of Muslim domination also becomes real. If they move to Christianity, the number of Christians reaches five to six crores (fifty to sixty million). It will help strengthen the Britain hold on the country".

http://www.3dsyndication.com/showarticl ... En3dPuls8=


Problems are inevitable when religion becomes a political tool, and Ambedkar saw that. It is unfair to generalize that Muslims or Christians are less nationalistic, but it is undeniable that non-Indic powers are liable to use these religions as tools. One caveat is that non-Indic powers are very much capable of using radical Hindu nationalists as tools, too.

MK Gandhi, Ambedkar and V. Patel all had some seriously intellectual ideas, though they may have had their faults.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby shravan » 30 Apr 2010 16:27

Country's first electricity museum opens in Gujarat
Ahmedabad, Apr 29 (PTI) A first of its kind electricity museum that displays evolution of power from earlier times to the nuclear power generation age through interactive models was today inaugurated in Gujarat.

The museum 'CLP Electrodome', which, exhibits a wide range of computer-based interactive models of electricity generation, transmission and distribution, was thrown open for public by Chief Minister Narendra Modi at the science city here.

"Such museums can cater to the child's need in quest for knowledge with entertainment and can help instill scientific temper in them," Modi said, while addressing the gathering.

"This is one of its kind museum in the country that displays evolution of power right from the vedic days to today's nuclear power generation age, explaining science of electricity through various interactive models," he said.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Sagrawal » 30 Apr 2010 18:29

X posting from TSP thread

Gagan wrote:One more major terror attack and MMS will resign and Rahul Gandhi will be PM of India.


Dear all Rakshaks

I am newbie so admins please move /delete my post to correct forum if this is OT here.

Considering the strained relations between MMS and Sonia G and having a feeling that MMS is being shown the door, what are the chances of Rahul baba becoming PM of India? Does he have any characteristics of her grandmother IG? MMS is known to be intelligent and very qualified person however I have my doubts about Rahul baba's qualifications or intelligence. I don’t think congress will promote MMS as PM in next general elections. What do experts and gurus out here think might happen in coming years.


Thanks
Sumit

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby svinayak » 30 Apr 2010 21:05

JwalaMukhi wrote:
Western academics very well recognize Bharatiya Sanskriti and is exteremely worried about that. Hence all the machinations and circus to go to extreme lengths to villify that. What western academics want is to create a condition and discourse, so that actually Indians do not recognize Bharatiya sanskriti. They would want Indians to not believe in Bharatiya Sanskriti. That's the goal and towards that end; apart from intellecutal dishonesty, even the bare minimum academic honesty and integrity are thrown to the wind.

They want a westernized India which behaves like them. After they had courted Indian intellectuals who are westernized for the last 40 years they think that India can be just like western nations.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby brihaspati » 01 May 2010 01:56

As for analysis of India or Indian by "western" academics, we have to clearly keep this in mind - (and repeat it aggressively to them openly) that for Indians, such analysis is interesting because it tells more about the problems within the "west" rather than any insight into India.

For example, a consistent theme in western analysis of what they term "Indian mythical figures" is that all these gods/goddesses are essentially projections of Indian sexuality. This overwhelming sexual obsession in interpreting Indian memes is more a revelation about the social obsessions of the "western elite" rather than any insight into the Indian aspects of theology [if it can be at all dubbed that].

Same goes for trying to understand or interpret Indian history and hsitorical/social thought in terms of the western experience. The underlying current of imperialist denigration of older and richer cultures in aevery possible way is the consistent feature of westerna academic analyis. It should be exposed and thrown at their faces. For example the overwhelming urge to postpone Indian intellectual developments in time so that what Europe can somehow claim to share in terms of civilizational aspects - have to be placed in time before or at least contemporaneopus with comparable Indian ones.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby RamaY » 01 May 2010 02:39

One more betrayal of MMS administration

Currency note-printing outsourced! Panel raps RBI,FinMin


The Parliamentary Committee on Public Undertakings (COPU) expressed serious concern over outsourcing of printing of Indian currency notes amounting to Rs 1 lakh crore (Rs 1 trillion) to three countries in 1997-98 and said that such a tendency would put India's economic sovereignty at stake.

Pulling up the Reserve Bank of India [ Get Quote ] and the Union finance ministry for outsourcing of currency notes, the COPU said it was 'aghast' at the move and described it as 'an unprecedented, unconventional and uncalled for measure'.

COPU said it was not convinced by the explanations submitted to it for such a step.

"The committee was informed that 2 billion pieces of Rs 100 denomination and 1.6 billion pieces of Rs 500 denomination of notes were outsourced for printing," COPU chairman V Kishore Chandra Deo said.

The committee submitted its report in the Lok Sabha on Friday. The printing contracts were given to American Banknote Company (USA) - 635 million pieces; Thomas De La Rue, UK -- 1.365 billion pieces (Rs 100 denomination) and Giesecke & Devrient Consortium (Germany [ Images ]) -- 1.6 billion pieces (Rs 500 denomination), amounting to a sum of Rs 100,000 crore.

The COPU report states that consequences of such a decision are 'very grave with a tendency to put our entire economic sovereignty at stake'.

This is the only instance of outsourcing of printing of notes in India, the report observes.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Muppalla » 01 May 2010 04:40

RamaY wrote:One more betrayal of MMS administration

Currency note-printing outsourced! Panel raps RBI,FinMin


The Parliamentary Committee on Public Undertakings (COPU) expressed serious concern over outsourcing of printing of Indian currency notes amounting to Rs 1 lakh crore (Rs 1 trillion) to three countries in 1997-98 and said that such a tendency would put India's economic sovereignty at stake.



RamaY garu, In 97-98 there was no MMS government. I guess it was under Gowda-Gujral timeframe.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby ldev » 01 May 2010 10:02

Muppalla wrote:RamaY garu, In 97-98 there was no MMS government. .....


:rotfl:
Never mind. Everything is the fault of the Vatican-Maino-Singh cabal whether in or out of power. Only non Maculayite is good for India. Rest are all traitors!!. For ready reference this is what MMS did in and around that time frame:


March 21, 1998 – May 22,2004: Leader of Opposition, Rajya Sabha (Council of States) Parliament of India
June, 2001: Re-elected as member of Rajya Sabha for a Term of six years
August 1, 1996 - Dec 4, 1997: Chairman, Parliamentary Standing Committee on Commerce, Rajya Sabha
June 21, 1991- May 15, 1996: Finance Minister of India

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Lilo » 01 May 2010 10:22

Not quite sure whether this is the correct thread.
Azim Premji is India's Bill Gates: Forbes
Updated on Saturday, May 01, 2010, 09:50 IST Tags:Azim Premji, Wipro, Forbes

Washington: India's software tycoon Azim Premji plans to set up a world-class university to train teachers who will fan out to the teacher training institutes in India's 600 districts.

"It will be a world-class university with a large endowment," 64-year-old Premji told Forbes magazine noting, "Most of these institutes are a complete mess with the teachers leading the classes worse than the teachers that come to get trained."

The proposed university to upgrade teaching methods will be the latest venture of Azim Premji Foundation that focuses on education, improving standards in India by training teachers and, among other things, funding model schools.

Started nine years ago and funded solely by Premji, the foundation was given stock valued at "much more than" Rs 450 crore or roughly USD 101 million estimated by a newspaper.

Much like Microsoft founder Bill Gates, Premji also plans to give away most of his money during his lifetime, the US business magazine revealed.

"Even if I was to give my children a small part of my wealth, it would be more than they can digest in many lifetimes," he said by way of explaining.

For Premji, Forbes said philanthropy boils down to a simple philosophy: "To those to whom much is given, much has to be given back."

If the Indian software billionaire, who ranks No 28 among the richest people in the world with USD 17 billion to his name, winds up giving away most of his money to charity, he would be a rare breed among Asian entrepreneurs who have tended to pass their wealth onto their children rather than putting it to philanthropic use, it said.

The efforts of Premji's foundation are separate from the philanthropic initiatives Wipro pursues, Forbes noted.

Some of these initiatives, such as Mission 10X, which is focused on making India's engineering students more employable in the information technology industry, clearly dovetail with Wipro's business interests.

Others, such as Wipro Cares, match contributions from employees and provide disaster relief, lending a hand after the earthquake in Gujarat or the floods in Orissa, for instance.

Both the foundation's and Wipro's philanthropic efforts, according to the US business magazine, share a common philosophy: They seek to offer the recipients of aid an ownership stake by often requiring them to pick up some of the tab.
IANS

Only if others like the ambanis could have treated their family fortune more as an issue of public responsibility and less as some personal privilege India would have been a better place for all.
Still, all the multiplex condos on skyscrapers and the IPL teams they own can never match the greatness of what this man is trying to do.

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Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pranav » 01 May 2010 13:00

Some thoughts from from western think-tanks about how best to manage Indian politics:

Does India Still Need a Hindu Nationalist Party?
BY ELLIOT HANNON | APRIL 30, 2010

[lots of platitudes, stereotypes, and obligatory diatribes against N. Modi clipped ... do read the article in full]

Clearly, the BJP is trying to make some changes -- but they may not be the right ones. It selected new leadership, opting for a relatively young face: Nitin Gadkari, a newcomer to the national stage who previously headed the party's Maharashtra state organization. Gadkari was backed by the RSS, however, suggesting that changes may be more superficial than real.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... ?page=full


To analyze this piece of news, we need to take a little detour. Let us look at some excerpts from Carroll Quigley's book "Tragedy and Hope", Macmillan, 1966. Quigley (1910-1977) was a Professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University, and was a mentor of Bill Clinton:

There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network ... has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists ... and frequently does so.

...there grew up in the twentieth century a power structure between London and New York which penetrated deeply into university life, the press, and the practice of foreign policy.

I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments.

They were gracious and cultured gentlemen .... who were largely responsible for the partitions of Ireland, Palestine, and India, as well as the federations of South Africa, Central Africa, and the West Indies.

It must be emphasized here, however, that Quigley is not giving us the full picture. This Syndicate is considerably older than what he says. Furthermore, Quigley fails to mention that the core of this Syndicate is based on the Sabbatean-Frankist sect [Ref Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman, "To Eliminate the Opiate", Vols I and II. Vol I is available at http://www.scribd.com/doc/20459331/R-Mo ... iate-vol-1]

Quigley recounts how the American people have been thoroughly confused and ineffective in dealing with this Syndicate:

...the relationship between the financial circles of London and those of the eastern United States ... reflects one of the most powerful influences in twentieth-century American and world history. The two ends of this English-speaking axis have sometimes been called, perhaps facetiously, the English and American Establishments. There is, however, a considerable degree of truth behind the joke, a truth which reflects a very real power structure. It is this power structure which the Radical Right in the United States has been attacking for years in the belief that they are attacking the Communism. This is particularly true when these attacks are directed, as they so frequently are at "Harvard Socialism," or at "Left-wing newspapers" like The New York Times and the Washington Post, or at foundations and their dependent establishments, such as the Institute of International Education.

These misdirected attacks by the Radical Right did much to confuse the American people in the period 1948-1955, and left consequences which were still significant a decade later. By the end of 1953, most of these attacks had run their course. The American people, thoroughly bewildered at widespread charges of twenty years of treason and subversion, had rejected the Democrats and put into the White House the Republican Party's traditional favorite, a war hero, Dwight D. Eisenhower.


Qiugley also mentions some of the over-ground fronts utilized by this criminal syndicate:

At the end of the war of 1914, it became clear that the organization of this system had to be greatly extended ... This front organization [was] called the Royal Institute of International Affairs [aka "Chatham House"].... In New York it was known as the Council on Foreign Relations ...


The RIAA and the CFR do exercise a fair amount of influence. Indeed, here is Hillary Clinton saying how the CFR tells the State department "what it should be doing and how to think about the future": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6TXcQpgC9Q

Now, the Crime Syndicate has very little respect for democracy. Quigley explains that the Syndicate intended

to allow an alternation of ... two parties in public office in order to conceal their own influence, inhibit any exhibition of independence of politicians, and allow the electorate to believe that they were exercising their own free choice.
...
Hopefully, the elements of choice and freedom may survive for the ordinary individual in that he may be free to make a choice between two opposing political groups (even if these groups have little policy choice within the parameters of policy established by the experts) and he may have the choice to switch his economic support from one large unit to another. But, in general, his freedom and choice will be controlled within the very narrow alternatives ...


Although this false choice between two parties has been achieved in the US, the syndicate does nevertheless need to rig elections from time to time. It is greatly facilitated in this effort by the use of electronic voting machines.

Expectedly, the syndicate strongly supports the use of electronic voting machines in India. See "Indian EVMs impress Hillary Clinton" - http://news.rediff.com/interview/2009/n ... linton.htm

Now, in order to create a similar false choice for the natives in India, two puppet parties are required. One pole of this order appears to already exist - the Congress Party. The interests of the syndicate would demand that Maoists be protected and the use of EVMs be supported. Sonia Gandhi and her loyalists appear to be adhering to this. But the system is not stable until there is an opposite pole, and this is the role that the BJP is supposed to play.

It would have been best for the syndicate if the BJP were as much their puppet as the Congress appears to be. Then, the BJP could be allowed to win from time to time, thereby easing suspicions of vote fraud amongst the natives. However, it appears that the installation of Gadkari as the president has upset these plans. Indeed, the self-confessedly Anglophilic columnist Swapan Dasgupta, who harshly criticizes "conspiracy theories" about EVMs, regards the nomination of Gadkari as a "coup" in the BJP.

This brings up back to the article we started with: If the BJP cannot be reliably controlled, the syndicate may consider it better to not have a Hindu nationalist party in India at all. Severe rigging may be required to keep the BJP out. But the media can be relied on to mount a campaign that the BJP's support is eroding. That may make it easier for the natives to swallow their medicine.


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