Indian Interests

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
JwalaMukhi
BRFite
Posts: 1635
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 18:27

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JwalaMukhi » 16 Jun 2014 02:53

I love how the framework and focus of subject still revolves around completely tangential to what is important for Indians. Just got to force the focus onto what is deemed important by the "agenda setters". No different from SeeYenYen type - who not only create news, but also manufacture them on demand. (of course all of them from 21st century onlee).
Hear ye turd worlders:- work on this praablem of homosexuality, and phollow how we are making progress and piece in the land of milk and honey. Just other day, we had "few nikkahs" that were upheld by the hollowed court system. Take that and eat your hearts out...

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4071
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Lilo » 16 Jun 2014 03:07

JwalaMukhi wrote:I love how the framework and focus of subject still revolves around completely tangential to what is important for Indians. Just got to force the focus onto what is deemed important by the "agenda setters". No different from SeeYenYen type - who not only create news, but also manufacture them on demand. (of course all of them from 21st century onlee).
Hear ye turd worlders:- work on this praablem of homosexuality, and phollow how we are making progress and piece in the land of milk and honey. Just other day, we had "few nikkahs" that were upheld by the hollowed court system. Take that and eat your hearts out...

For "Libertarian liberals" of the world, New York Times, Jezebel etc set the agenda.
Trawl the relationship columns of these rags and blogs , one finds all kinds of kookie suggestions on the currently "fashionable" (therefore aspirational) trends in hexual practices.Slightest whiff of a well received "trend" and immediately our own rags and channels like HT,TOIleT,rrNDTV goodtimes instinctively lift these "new understandings" into their relationship columns.
KrishnaK wrote:I love how support for homosexuality is because ancient hindus tolerated (or the horror of even supporting) it already, or not because it wasn't so kosher back then. Not very different from bakis wanting to be araps from the 8th century.

Its funny how those who are otherwise inclined to do Bikram Yoga as any good "liberal" american - without doubting Bikram or Yoga (in effect acknowledging the ancient indians understanding of what entails a harmonized mind and body), tend to immediately equal equal the philosophies which gave rise to those yogic practices with the philosophies from the pissfull sands of Arabia, and say dutty yindoos who want to stick to these philosophies are no different to arap bakis.

JwalaMukhi
BRFite
Posts: 1635
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 18:27

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JwalaMukhi » 16 Jun 2014 03:22

That's easy to understand. When one get indoctrinated by steady diet of NewYak Times, SeeYenYen, one has predisposition to jump to conclusions and accuse others of being inspired by either ancients.
But but when one gets inspired from the 21st century fountainhead of knawlidge from NewYakTimes, where they discovered homosexuals very recently, then one is superior and farward thinking.
Some get inspired by 6th century dynamics.
Some get inspired by ancients.
Some get inspired by propaganda machineries of 21st century.
Guess different strokes for different folks (pun intended). All in a days work, just a little sophisticated than 50 cent collectors from the red land.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Interests

Postby RoyG » 16 Jun 2014 07:34

KrishnaK wrote:I love how support for homosexuality is because ancient hindus tolerated (or the horror of even supporting) it already, or not because it wasn't so kosher back then. Not very different from bakis wanting to be araps from the 8th century.


I don't get it. It's not a huge problem in India so why have a law criminalizing it in the first place? It's simply unnecessary. Why not just have a common marriage law, and gender classification for identification purposes. Legislation on sexual orientation can't be enforced in India. What are you going to do? Break into peoples homes to see what their up to? Its like the same idiots on this forum who want to ban *****. :lol:

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 948
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: Indian Interests

Postby KrishnaK » 16 Jun 2014 10:42

RoyG wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:I love how support for homosexuality is because ancient hindus tolerated (or the horror of even supporting) it already, or not because it wasn't so kosher back then. Not very different from bakis wanting to be araps from the 8th century.


I don't get it. It's not a huge problem in India so why have a law criminalizing it in the first place? It's simply unnecessary. Why not just have a common marriage law, and gender classification for identification purposes. Legislation on sexual orientation can't be enforced in India. What are you going to do? Break into peoples homes to see what their up to? Its like the same idiots on this forum who want to ban ***** :lol:
Royji, I'm not arguing for criminalizing homosexuality. I'm only saying that it should be decriminalized because it violates personal freedoms, not because it's not a huge problem in India or that ancient hindus were tolerant of it. If they were tolerant back then, well and good. If not, screw the past. Morality should have no place in law.

SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Interests

Postby SanjayC » 16 Jun 2014 11:09

^^^ Next step would be legalize sex with animals as it is also an issue of personal freedom. Any kind of unnatural sex needs to be banned.

Comer
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3574
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Comer » 16 Jun 2014 12:05

^^This is a strawman argument. What is the business of others to poke into sex lives of consenting adults?

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Agnimitra » 16 Jun 2014 12:14

Atri wrote:Anyways, I participated here only to show this part of our culture where unnatural sex is considered a worst form of curse. I don't mind gays having right to have fun, its their business. No glorification and PDA please. And most importantly bliss not to cite our culture to justify all this. Homosexuality is not brahmacharya. Heterosexuality is, if practiced as per dharma.

If 377 can be amended to be limited to tough-love in jails or homosexual rapes etc, i think it should be done. No gay marriage chutiyapa please. No tax breaks etc of a natural family to be extended. Anyways, when uniform civilcode comes, all this will be immaterial onlee. I welcome the elevation of transgenders though. They deserve equal treatment.

Atri ji, it is possible to frame the legal aspect along these purushaarthic lines rather than cultural precedent:

1. Modernity is causing a spiritual crisis with various effects on sexual and reproductive patterns in society. There are 3 parts of this process that are being impacted:
(a) Promiscuity versus responsible partnership and fidelity.
(b) The will to undergo pregnancy and reproduce.
(c) The maturity and values to raise children together in 2-parent households.

2. As part of the healthy preservation and propagation of the race, society and the law must safeguard the best practices in each of these areas.
(a) The law must reward the practice of those values that best preserve these parts in healthy form.
(b) The law must not penalize those departures from these values that are necessitated by unhealthy circumstances. This means that the law and society must give due recognition to individuals (both men and women) who need to divorce, remarry or adopt children without having their own.
(c) The law must deny the same status to choices that result in undermining the values in (a) and (b).

3. As part of the healthy preservation and propagation of the race, society elevates and rewards those women who undergo pregnancy. This is done via:
(a) Elevating the spiritual status of marriage between partners able to procreate, i.e., heterosexual male and female.
(b) Giving special protections and prerogatives to married couples to enable them to raise healthy children.

4. The sensual rights of homosexuals must be protected from persecution as long as it does not lead to regular social or criminal offences common to heterosexuals - the spread of epidemic diseases, abuse or rape of minors and other vulnerable sections of society, or general promiscuity. The "kama" purushaartha of homosexual unions must be given due space and enabled to keep that space healthy. It must be protected from persecution by religious bigots and other homophobic groups.

5. However, homosexual unions in general cannot be given the same status as heterosexual marriages because there is no burden of pregnancy involved. Heterosexual couples may also choose not to have children, but they are particular cases of preference within a larger culture whose general values are sought to be maintained. The "artha" purushaartha of homosexual unions does not warrant the same status or space as the "arthic" potential of heterosexual unions.

6. The fidelity and responsibility of homosexual couples must be rewarded by society and the law by recognizing them as "civil unions" - with many but not all the protections and prerogatives of "marriage".

7. In terms of adoption, the law must facilitate the adoption process from a less healthy option to a more healthy option. An orphan may be adopted by a legally united same-sex couple, since at least a responsible foster parentage of one gender is made available. Preference will be given to adoption by heterosexual married couples. However, compared to a single member household (unmarried male or female) who wants to adopt, a legal same-sex couple may be given preference, since they are already implementing several family values in their household.

Etc.
Last edited by Agnimitra on 16 Jun 2014 12:20, edited 1 time in total.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Agnimitra » 16 Jun 2014 12:16

SanjayC wrote:^^^ Next step would be legalize sex with animals as it is also an issue of personal freedom. Any kind of unnatural sex needs to be banned.

The "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy. Because it implicitly casts doubt on the integrity of the actors and diverts attention from the relevant values.

Rather, it may be better to speak about values, and show how their application devolves along different orientations.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Indian Interests

Postby schinnas » 16 Jun 2014 13:12

SanjayC wrote:Same philosophy is with church. The Church hates secularism -- but surprise, surprise -- it is it the biggest supporter of secularism in India and even runs the Catholic Secular Forum. Now, what did you say? Church does not like gays and will not support the gay movement in India? Smell the coffee, dude. It will support everything, even Islamic terrorists, as long as it serves its purpose of screwing the pagans and making them ripe for harvesting.


The big downside to your conspiracy theory is that Church in India is amongst the foremost opponents of gays. You are just throwing empty CTs and not addressing the root of 377 and the various arguments mentioned. Why you insist on bringing gay issues to section 377? No point in further discussing if you are going to persist with arguing on tangential topics.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Indian Interests

Postby schinnas » 16 Jun 2014 13:24

JE Menon wrote:>>Section 377 which criminalizes any type of sexual activity other than vaginal sex between man and woman

Is this accurate?


From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_37 ... Penal_Code

377. Unnatural offences: Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for term which may extend to ten years, and shall also be liable to fine.

Explanation: Penetration is sufficient to constitute the carnal intercourse necessary to the offense described in this section.[2][3]

The ambit of Section 377, which was devised to criminalize and prevent homosexual sex[citation needed] extends to any sexual union involving penile insertion. Thus, even consensual heterosexual acts such as fellatio and anal penetration may be punishable under this law.


From a practical standpoint, it is stupid to think government can control sexual acts in private by a law. Secondly, from the standpoint of individual rights, government has no standing in dictating private intimate acts between consenting adults. Its a slippery slope! Thirdly de-criminalizing is not same as encouraging. We need to move away from this notion of enacting a law to abolish every social behavior we dont like. That is not a sign of healthy open civilization. That definitely is not the Bharatiya way.

That said, a long list of irrelevant and stupid laws and procedures in India need to be purged to make government efficient and constitution meaningful. There is just too much clutter. 377 is just one of them. There is a wide spectrum of laws from colonial times which make no sense including some labor laws. I am no legal expert but believe to cleanse red tape, we need to do away with lot of unnecessary illogical laws.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7042
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JE Menon » 16 Jun 2014 20:20

Holy crap... One would hope that all adult BRFites have been breaking the law frequently and pleasurably on this count.

Comer
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3574
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Comer » 16 Jun 2014 20:27

Either Indian Govt totally abolishes this stupid law or enforce with force. Altering privacy laws where a moral police can peep into Indian citizens bedtime activity and punish those with 'deviant tastes'. You can't have a law that is toothless. Am sure plenty of citizens would enthusiastically accept this intrusion for the greatness and glory of our civilisation.

SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Interests

Postby SanjayC » 16 Jun 2014 20:37

^^^
Gay rights = Greatness and glory of our civilization; It is the Bharatiya way.

Just brilliant!! You are arguing for the right of a man to hump another man as if the survival of Indian civilization is at stake. Any particular reason that you are so worked up on this issue, and not on, say, poverty or corruption or lack of infrastructure and jobs in India which I believe are much more pressing concerns for an average Indian?

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7042
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JE Menon » 16 Jun 2014 20:47

^^Actually boss, not quite... I'm just arguing for the right to consensual unrestricted heterosexual activity (or blowjob) without risking 10 years in prison. If anyone is arguing as if the survival of Indian civilisation is at stake by repealing this ridiculous law, it is you. As people have repeatedly pointed out, for a couple of millennia when this law was but a throb in the trousers of Western civilisation, India managed homosexuality as well as can be by civilised societies.

Anyway, what on earth is this discussion doing here on the "Indian interests" thread. I can dig that, given by our population, the subject of sex is clearly of abiding interest, but in Strategic Issues? Unless we are exercising extreme latitude on the meaning of issues, pls end this discussion here and move to the appropriately and affectionately called burqa thread.

Atri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4152
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 21:07

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Atri » 16 Jun 2014 21:50

Agnimitra wrote:
Atri wrote:Anyways, I participated here only to show this part of our culture where unnatural sex is considered a worst form of curse. I don't mind gays having right to have fun, its their business. No glorification and PDA please. And most importantly bliss not to cite our culture to justify all this. Homosexuality is not brahmacharya. Heterosexuality is, if practiced as per dharma.

If 377 can be amended to be limited to tough-love in jails or homosexual rapes etc, i think it should be done. No gay marriage chutiyapa please. No tax breaks etc of a natural family to be extended. Anyways, when uniform civilcode comes, all this will be immaterial onlee. I welcome the elevation of transgenders though. They deserve equal treatment.

Atri ji, it is possible to frame the legal aspect along these purushaarthic lines rather than cultural precedent:

1. Modernity is causing a spiritual crisis with various effects on sexual and reproductive patterns in society. There are 3 parts of this process that are being impacted:
(a) Promiscuity versus responsible partnership and fidelity.
(b) The will to undergo pregnancy and reproduce.
(c) The maturity and values to raise children together in 2-parent households.

2. As part of the healthy preservation and propagation of the race, society and the law must safeguard the best practices in each of these areas.
(a) The law must reward the practice of those values that best preserve these parts in healthy form.
(b) The law must not penalize those departures from these values that are necessitated by unhealthy circumstances. This means that the law and society must give due recognition to individuals (both men and women) who need to divorce, remarry or adopt children without having their own.
(c) The law must deny the same status to choices that result in undermining the values in (a) and (b).

3. As part of the healthy preservation and propagation of the race, society elevates and rewards those women who undergo pregnancy. This is done via:
(a) Elevating the spiritual status of marriage between partners able to procreate, i.e., heterosexual male and female.
(b) Giving special protections and prerogatives to married couples to enable them to raise healthy children.

4. The sensual rights of homosexuals must be protected from persecution as long as it does not lead to regular social or criminal offences common to heterosexuals - the spread of epidemic diseases, abuse or rape of minors and other vulnerable sections of society, or general promiscuity. The "kama" purushaartha of homosexual unions must be given due space and enabled to keep that space healthy. It must be protected from persecution by religious bigots and other homophobic groups.

5. However, homosexual unions in general cannot be given the same status as heterosexual marriages because there is no burden of pregnancy involved. Heterosexual couples may also choose not to have children, but they are particular cases of preference within a larger culture whose general values are sought to be maintained. The "artha" purushaartha of homosexual unions does not warrant the same status or space as the "arthic" potential of heterosexual unions.

6. The fidelity and responsibility of homosexual couples must be rewarded by society and the law by recognizing them as "civil unions" - with many but not all the protections and prerogatives of "marriage".

7. In terms of adoption, the law must facilitate the adoption process from a less healthy option to a more healthy option. An orphan may be adopted by a legally united same-sex couple, since at least a responsible foster parentage of one gender is made available. Preference will be given to adoption by heterosexual married couples. However, compared to a single member household (unmarried male or female) who wants to adopt, a legal same-sex couple may be given preference, since they are already implementing several family values in their household.

Etc.


Thanks.. precisely..

homosexuality is an anomaly. I won't call it abnormality, because most of the times the real gays are gays because of genetic predisposition (various theories - most popular being secretion of testosterone in embryo slightly later OR earlier than "heterosexual" fetuses. not proven, though). IN dharmik terms, one can say it is prakriti of these "purush-prakriti duels" to be so, and one cannot fight against one's own prakriti for long.

As long as these prakritis do not harm the nash-equilibrium of society, that is dharma and dharmik sajjana people, I do not consider it criminal. Anyone who disturbs this equilibrium and pushes it towards adharma - is an asura. Heterosexual Raavana was an asura, for example.

But Anomaly, even if neglected, as long as it remains an anomaly - need not be glorified and encouraged and considered at par with dharmik marriage. Gays having loving relationship IS NOT GRIHASTHAASHRAMA. Same logic can be applied to Live-in relationship types. If you want to live together, why not take pheraas and consecrate it in presence of agni? Again, no need to criminalize live-in relationships but I oppose considering it at par with Grihasthashrama.

It is not about pursuing Kaama-purushaartha.. Purushaarthas need to be seen in context of Ashrama and Varna. Even if we neglect Varna here - Kaama Purushaartha pursued within limits of Grihasthaashrama is Dharma. Outside Grihasthaashrama pursuing Kaama is adhaarmik.

It becomes grossly criminal OR aasurik, when forced upon (homo or hetero rapes, for example). IN other cases (consenting hetero and homo couples living in) it is like minor adharma which every society usually tolerates for smoother functioning, while not elevating that adharma at par with dharmik-grihasthashrama.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Interests

Postby RoyG » 16 Jun 2014 22:02

SanjayC wrote:^^^ Next step would be legalize sex with animals as it is also an issue of personal freedom. Any kind of unnatural sex needs to be banned.


You do realize that m*slims have a habit of doing this and its not enforceable either. What's the point? What makes homosexuality unnatural? You sound like some evangelical scum delivering judeo-christian values to the uncivilized masses.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Interests

Postby RoyG » 16 Jun 2014 22:07

Thanks for the sermon Father Atri. Now just get rid of these stupid laws, especially ones from the 1800's. Total revamp of the judicial system is needed.

Atri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4152
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 21:07

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Atri » 16 Jun 2014 22:26

RoyG wrote:Thanks for the sermon Father Atri. Now just get rid of these stupid laws, especially ones from the 1800's. Total revamp of the judicial system is needed.


:D

tathaastu, putra, you have my blessings. Now go ahead and abolish them. May the force be with you..

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9252
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Jun 2014 11:30

Image

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8237
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Pratyush » 18 Jun 2014 12:02

Times have changed. I cannot even imagine. This taking place during an INC ruled Delhi.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Sanku » 18 Jun 2014 12:07

Pratyush wrote:Times have changed. I cannot even imagine. This taking place during an INC ruled Delhi.


What I would also like to humbly point out is that it is being done at IIC. What this goes to show is that the "issue" is not with IIC/IHC/LBZ or whatever.

These are tools. Of power. Question is how to wield them. Similarly for PTI (being discussed elsewhere) -- I note some anger at the institutions and call for their scrapping in a sense on BRF, IMVHO, the right thing is to use it well.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54527
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramana » 18 Jun 2014 20:29

I bow to Kaushal for starting the first roll back during the heydays of UPA power by holding the History seminar in IIC.

SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Interests

Postby SanjayC » 18 Jun 2014 20:33

ramana wrote:I bow to Kaushal for starting the first roll back during the heydays of UPA power by holding the History seminar in IIC.


Yup. Remember the event. I was there -- I handled the media and PR agency.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54527
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby ramana » 18 Jun 2014 20:35

SanjayC wrote:
ramana wrote:I bow to Kaushal for starting the first roll back during the heydays of UPA power by holding the History seminar in IIC.


Yup. Remember the event. I was there -- I handled the media and PR agency.



I know. Can you post some of the material for educating the new people?

Manny
BRFite
Posts: 850
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 22:16
Location: Texas

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Manny » 19 Jun 2014 05:38

SanjayC wrote:^^^ Next step would be legalize sex with animals as it is also an issue of personal freedom. Any kind of unnatural sex needs to be banned.


Animals cannot give consent...So your argument is moot. If you think "unnatural sex act" should be disallowed.. I find someone having sex more than once a week unnatural. In fact, I find anyone having more sex than I have to be unnatural. I now need to monitor how much others have. What for do people need to have sex more than once a week yaaar! That is not necessary..it is so unnatural..so lets legislate this also yaar! :lol:

As a libertarian and as a Hindu I find it offensive some people think they can restrict and intrude on what two consenting adults do in their privacy. Sorry to sound crude.. "as a Hetro male I may like to have butt sex with my woman" Is that unnatural enough for you? :rotfl:

There is a true story of the English novelist, E.M.Foster while working for one of the Indian Maharajah, hid his Homosexuality from him believing the Hindus of India would have the same prudish values like his christian England. He used to have affairs behind Maharajah's back. But the Maharajah thinking E.M.Foster was a single man and a good friend used to introduce him to so many eligible women. But E.M.Foster obviously never went out with any of them. .. One day E.M.Foster broke down and confessed and gave his resignation to his employer the Maharajah. But the Maharajah cried with him and felt bad that E.M.Foster had to live with his guilt all these years and convinced him to stay back and work for him. Soon after the Maharajah tried to introduce Em.Foster to men he knew to be gays. E.M.Foster was so overwhelmed and appreciative of the Hindu culture. This is the maturity of the Dhamric culture.

The Lefties of India know very well that Its the christian church and other religions would have problems with gays...but they would rather pin this on the "evil Hindus".

I am sorry, the Anti Gay bigotry is not a Hindu/Dharmic religious problem..its a problem purely for the Abrahamic faiths and some clueless Hindus. Thats why I laugh at the lefties of India going on a gay parade in India... Instead of protesting that India doesn't have enough public toilets. These lefties take all liberal left causes of the west and try to make that into an Indian cause. They are bunch of clowns. India doesn't have a big problem of gays getting beaten up or killed.
Last edited by Manny on 19 Jun 2014 06:25, edited 1 time in total.

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3567
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Paul » 19 Jun 2014 06:21

Yup, I remember making a contribution to kaushal for the conference.

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 948
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: Indian Interests

Postby KrishnaK » 19 Jun 2014 07:03

Manny wrote:
SanjayC wrote:^^^ Next step would be legalize sex with animals as it is also an issue of personal freedom. Any kind of unnatural sex needs to be banned.


Animals cannot give consent...So your argument is moot.
+1. Adminullah JEM had banned talking about this hence I held back. The nonsense that gets posted because it's dharmic or not is mindboggling.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21161
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Prem » 20 Jun 2014 04:21

http://www.firstpost.com/india/in-chenn ... 74417.html
In Chennai traffic, a 'Green Corridor' for a human heart saves patient's life


Hvovi Minocherchomi, a 21-year-old BCom student from Mumbai, suffering from swelling of the heart (dilated cardiomyopathy), was admitted to the Fortis Malar Hospital in Adyar, Chennai. According to a report in The Times of India, when a matching donor heart was found in the Government general hospital located 12 km away, a medical team transported the heart to the Fortis hospital in less than 14 minutes by creating a 'green corridor', that is, a route without any red lights.
A human heart can be preserved for up to 4 hours, but the chances of the recipient's survival are higher if transplant takes place early. The report explained that the Government hospital doctors informed their Fortis counterparts about the availability of the heart from a brain-dead patient at 5:45 am. The situation was also explained to the police.Immediately, additional commissioner of police (traffic) Karunasagar began co-ordinating the creation of the green corridor. C Kathir was selected as the ambulance driver.By afternoon, deputy commissioner Sivanandan had posted 26 officers at 12 intersections and the police were ready with the corridor, most of it along the Beach Road and Santhome High Road, two of the busiest roads in Chennai.

The report stated that the loading of the heart into the ambulance began at 6:39 pm and the ambulance left the Government hospital at 6:44 pm. "As it passed each signal - touching 100 kmph at times - a pilot radioed in the location to the control room as also the police teams along the corridor. It reached Fortis at 6:57 pm," said the report."As soon as the heart was brought, the transplant began. By 10.15 pm, the heart was beating in the patient's chest," Dr Suresh Rao, chief anesthetist at Fortis hospital, is quoted as saying in the report.The report added that the heart was harvested from a 27-year-old man who, ironically, had died in a traffic accident. Luckily, the recipient's and donor's blood group and body weight matched, making the transplant possible.Another report in The Times of India said that Hvovi had been suffering from the disease for four years. "(She) had decided to go to the US for a transplant.
The report in The Times of India added that the heart surgery was led by Dr KR Balakrishnan. "The reason behind creating a green corridor was to transport the heart as fast as possible so the outcome of the surgery would be better. The heart has a better potential when transplanted faster," he said in the report.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Agnimitra » 20 Jun 2014 13:29

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 288784.ece

Assam Opposes Modi's Visa-free Entry to Select Bangladeshis :)

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7042
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JE Menon » 20 Jun 2014 13:49

Ok guys, enough with the gay shay business on this thread. Manny, brutal but outstanding post. Loved it.

Guys please take discussion to some other suitable thread if you so desire, but personal request please don't pollute the L&M Nukkad ... it is already like the Ganga out there.

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: Indian Interests

Postby abhishek_sharma » 22 Jun 2014 06:10

Coomi Kapoor's column

A modified behaviour

THE frenetic fashion in which secretaries to the Government of India and ministers have taken to heart Narendra Modi’s instructions to clean up their offices is largely because they have got feedback from Gujarat of Modi’s fury when a similar order was taken lightly in his home state. When Modi first took over as the chief minister in 2001, he requested his ministers and secretaries to improve their working environment.

After 10 days, he telephoned one of the ministers to find out whether the cleanliness drive had taken place. The minister, who had not taken the order seriously, immediately asked his secretary to accompany him to all offices in his ministry. To the minister’s surprise, he discovered that his secretary was unaware of the location of some sections of his ministry and had to ask for directions. When the CM learnt about the secretary’s ignorance about his own office and his lethargy in the clean-up drive, he pulled him up severely in front of everyone at the next meeting.

Strange home truths

AS A follow-up of an IB report on the suspicious funding of some NGOs, the Home Ministry has issued a directive that its permission has to be obtained before banks can accept any remittances to Greenpeace India from ClimateWorks Foundation. An IB investigation zeroed in on a donation of Rs 1 crore last year to Greenpeace India by ClimateWorks Foundation. The Foundation in question is funded by Hewlett Foundation, Packard Foundation and McKnight Foundation.
The former two foundations are trusts set up by the well-known company of the same name which manufactures computers and printers. McKnight Foundation gets its money from Minnesota Mines and Minerals Corporation. Since Greenpeace India campaigns for disposal of e-waste generated by Indian IT service providers and is against coal mining, the IB finds it odd that its donor should be engaged in the very same activity in its own country.

Independence Day eye-catcher

PRIME Minister Narendra Modi is already focussing on his Independence Day address to ensure that it is out of the box. An advance team has examined the Red Fort grounds to explore how best 3D images can be introduced to make the show glitzy. Modi’s speech will reinforce his plea for development and include material from campaign speeches.

Navy ship not in shape

THE SPG is furious with the naval authorities, who tried to pin the blame on the PM’s security setup for the Navy’s goof up in guiding 25 journalists on the INS Vikramaditya into a separate room, with the result that they missed the PM’s speech.
For some reason the media party, which was specially taken on board to cover the PM’s visit to the warship, was asked to remain in the tiny room while only the Doordarshan team was permitted access to the hangar when Modi made his speech dedicating the ship to the nation. The media was, understandably, agitated and the Navy, in turn, tried to blame the lapse on the SPG, which had nothing to do with the instructions.

Gag order on colleagues

During the recent Parliament session, Mukul Roy, chairperson of TMC’s parliamentary party, sent an SMS to his colleagues asking them not to speak unnecessarily in the House. He was not referring to speeches on the floor of the House, which are scheduled by the party, but chit-chat with the media and other MPs.

Modi effect on Capital’s golfers

Members of the Delhi Golf Club have noticed that of late senior government officials have stopped visiting the club on weekdays. Word has got around that an officer complained to Modi that some bureaucrats were taking time off to play golf, instead of sitting in their offices. Due to instructions that they must be in their offices at 9 am sharp, golf has become difficult for the babus.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21161
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Prem » 22 Jun 2014 09:17

A Largely Indian Victory in World War II, Mostly Forgotten in India

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/world ... share&_r=0
KOHIMA, India — Soldiers died by the dozens, by the hundreds and then by the thousands in a battle here 70 years ago. Two bloody weeks of fighting came down to just a few yards across an asphalt tennis court.Night after night, Japanese troops charged across the court’s white lines, only to be killed by almost continuous firing from British and Indian machine guns. The Battle of Kohima and Imphal was the bloodiest of World War II in India, and it cost Japan much of its best army in Burma.
But the battle has been largely forgotten in India a
s an emblem of the country’s colonial past. The Indian troops who fought and died here were subjects of the British Empire. In this remote, northeastern corner of India, more recent battles with a mix of local insurgencies among tribal groups that have long sought autonomy have made remembrances of former glories a luxury.
Now, as India loosens its security grip on this region and a fragile peace blossoms among the many combatants here, historians are hoping that this year’s anniversary reminds the world of one of the most extraordinary fights of the Second World War. The battle was voted last year as the winner of a contest by Britain’s National Army Museum, beating out Waterloo and D-Day as Britain’s greatest battle, though it was overshadowed at the time by the Normandy landings.

A closing ceremony for a three-month commemoration is planned for June 28 in Imphal, and representatives from the United States, Australia, Japan, India and other nations have promised to attend.“The Battle of Imphal and Kohima is not forgotten by the Japanese,” said Yasuhisa Kawamura, deputy chief of mission at the Japanese Embassy in New Delhi, who is planning to attend the ceremony. “Military historians refer to it as one of the fiercest battles in world history.”
A small but growing tour industry has sprung up around the battlefields ov
er the past year, led by a Hemant Katoch, a local history buff.But whether India will ever truly celebrate the Battle of Kohima and Imphal is unclear. India’s founding fathers were divided on whether to support the British during World War II, and India’s governments have generally had uneasy relationships even with the nation’s own military. So far, only local officials and a former top Indian general have agreed to participate in this week’s closing ceremony.The battle began some two years after Japanese forces routed the British in Burma in 1942, which brought the Japanese Army to India’s eastern border. Lt. Gen. Renya Mutaguchi persuaded his Japanese superiors to allow him to attack British forces at Imphal and Kohima in hopes of preventing a British counterattack. But General Mutaguchi planned to push farther into India to destabilize the British Raj, which by then was already being convulsed by the independence movement led by Mahatma Gandhi. General Mutaguchi brought a large number of Indian troops captured after the fall of Malaya and Singapore who agreed to join the Japanese in hopes of creating an independent India.
The British were led by Lt. Gen. William Slim, a brilliant tactician who re-formed and retrained the Eastern Army after its crushing defeat in Burma. The British and Indian forces were supported by planes commanded by the United States Army Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell. Once the Allies became certain that the Japanese planned to attack, General Slim withdrew his forces from western Burma and had them dig defensive positions in the hills around Imphal Valley, hoping to draw the Japanese into a battle far from their supply lines.But none of the British commanders believed that the Japanese could cross the nearly impenetrable jungles around Kohima in force, so when a full division of nearly 15,000 Japanese troops came swarming out of the vegetation on April 4, the town was only lightly defended by some 1,500 British and Indian troops.The Japanese encirclement meant that those troops were largely cut off from reinforcements and supplies, and a bitter battle eventually led the British and Indians to withdraw into a small enclosure next to a tennis court.The Japanese, without air support or supplies, eventually became exhausted, and the Allied forces soon pushed them out of Kohima and the hills around Imphal. On June 22, British and Indian forces finally cleared the last of the Japanese from the crucial road linking Imphal and Kohima, ending the siege.The Japanese 15th Army, 85,000 strong for the invasion of India, was essentially destroyed, with 53,000 dead and missing. Injuries and illnesses took many of the rest. There were 16,500 British casualties.

Christopher Sidor
BRFite
Posts: 1435
Joined: 13 Jul 2010 11:02

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Christopher Sidor » 22 Jun 2014 11:27

^^^^
It was not our war. The issue the fascist, including the Imperial Japanese, had with India was that it was being used to by the so called allies as a base and source of men and materials.

All of these Indians lives which were lost in WW-II were essentially fighting somebody else's war.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7042
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Interests

Postby JE Menon » 22 Jun 2014 12:41

The below two constructions speak volumes about the mentality related to the war.

>>and India’s governments have generally had uneasy relationships even with the nation’s own military.

Really, is this so? Has it been more "uneasy" than the relationships between Western militaries and their governments, presuming of course that is the base for the comparison of the nature of such relationships? If it was not, then what is that benchmark from which Mr. Harris is making that comparison. Rather, it appears to me that Euro/American commentators in general, and trans-Atlantics in particular, tend to have a view that such lofty sentiments as respecting spheres of responsibility are only to be found in offspring of their civilisation. It is amusing, and worth observing with a smile as one might the behaviour of a slightly provincial mind.

>>There were 16,500 British casualties.

And the above confirms my last sentence in previous para. Maybe this is why Indians don't have much of a feeling for "celebrating" the event along with the British or their troupe cymbalists. I wonder if Harris considered the amount of Indian casualties, even if only to say that there are no reliable estimates of how many Indians died.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Indian Interests

Postby vishvak » 22 Jun 2014 23:18

It would be surprising or even shocking if the British can not find this out. After all they were here to rule the world but not able to calculate this when their army was greatly staffed by Indians.

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: Indian Interests

Postby abhishek_sharma » 23 Jun 2014 03:11

After the victory, the unravelling: Inder Malhotra

The afterglow from the Bangladesh war soon faded, and Indira Gandhi found herself besieged.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20797
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Philip » 23 Jun 2014 07:40

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/an ... epage=true
Good article on the new NSA.Key points:

NSA for Hard Times:
On the U.S.

Fifth, Mr. Doval does not trust the United States — as is typical in officers of his generation. He warns that the U.S. “will seek to outsource their counter-terrorism to Pakistan” as they withdraw from Afghanistan. He was scathing of the U.S.-India nuclear deal, bitterly warning in 2006 that “it will stunt India’s emergence as a genuine nuclear weapon state, cripple its strategic deterrence, and reduce it to a US satrapy.” Of course, Mr. Modi is extremely unlikely to downgrade the strategic relationship with the U.S. It transcends national security. But such thinking might have implications for whether the government will modify India’s draconian nuclear liability law, as per the wishes of Washington and other Indian nuclear suppliers.

Arihant
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 02 Aug 2009 05:17

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Arihant » 23 Jun 2014 17:49

Jhujar wrote:A Largely Indian Victory in World War II, Mostly Forgotten in India

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/world ... share&_r=0
KOHIMA, India — Soldiers died by the dozens, by the hundreds and then by the thousands in a battle here 70 years ago. Two bloody weeks of fighting came down to just a few yards across an asphalt tennis court.Night after night, Japanese troops charged across the court’s white lines, only to be killed by almost continuous firing from British and Indian machine guns. The Battle of Kohima and Imphal was the bloodiest of World War II in India, and it cost Japan much of its best army in Burma.
But the battle has been largely forgotten in India a
s an emblem of the country’s colonial past. The Indian troops who fought and died here were subjects of the British Empire. In this remote, northeastern corner of India, more recent battles with a mix of local insurgencies among tribal groups that have long sought autonomy have made remembrances of former glories a luxury.
Now, as India loosens its security grip on this region and a fragile peace blossoms among the many combatants here, historians are hoping that this year’s anniversary reminds the world of one of the most extraordinary fights of the Second World War. The battle was voted last year as the winner of a contest by Britain’s National Army Museum, beating out Waterloo and D-Day as Britain’s greatest battle, though it was overshadowed at the time by the Normandy landings.

A closing ceremony for a three-month commemoration is planned for June 28 in Imphal, and representatives from the United States, Australia, Japan, India and other nations have promised to attend.“The Battle of Imphal and Kohima is not forgotten by the Japanese,” said Yasuhisa Kawamura, deputy chief of mission at the Japanese Embassy in New Delhi, who is planning to attend the ceremony. “Military historians refer to it as one of the fiercest battles in world history.”
A small but growing tour industry has sprung up around the battlefields ov
er the past year, led by a Hemant Katoch, a local history buff.But whether India will ever truly celebrate the Battle of Kohima and Imphal is unclear. India’s founding fathers were divided on whether to support the British during World War II, and India’s governments have generally had uneasy relationships even with the nation’s own military. So far, only local officials and a former top Indian general have agreed to participate in this week’s closing ceremony.The battle began some two years after Japanese forces routed the British in Burma in 1942, which brought the Japanese Army to India’s eastern border. Lt. Gen. Renya Mutaguchi persuaded his Japanese superiors to allow him to attack British forces at Imphal and Kohima in hopes of preventing a British counterattack. But General Mutaguchi planned to push farther into India to destabilize the British Raj, which by then was already being convulsed by the independence movement led by Mahatma Gandhi. General Mutaguchi brought a large number of Indian troops captured after the fall of Malaya and Singapore who agreed to join the Japanese in hopes of creating an independent India.
The British were led by Lt. Gen. William Slim, a brilliant tactician who re-formed and retrained the Eastern Army after its crushing defeat in Burma. The British and Indian forces were supported by planes commanded by the United States Army Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell. Once the Allies became certain that the Japanese planned to attack, General Slim withdrew his forces from western Burma and had them dig defensive positions in the hills around Imphal Valley, hoping to draw the Japanese into a battle far from their supply lines.But none of the British commanders believed that the Japanese could cross the nearly impenetrable jungles around Kohima in force, so when a full division of nearly 15,000 Japanese troops came swarming out of the vegetation on April 4, the town was only lightly defended by some 1,500 British and Indian troops.The Japanese encirclement meant that those troops were largely cut off from reinforcements and supplies, and a bitter battle eventually led the British and Indians to withdraw into a small enclosure next to a tennis court.The Japanese, without air support or supplies, eventually became exhausted, and the Allied forces soon pushed them out of Kohima and the hills around Imphal. On June 22, British and Indian forces finally cleared the last of the Japanese from the crucial road linking Imphal and Kohima, ending the siege.The Japanese 15th Army, 85,000 strong for the invasion of India, was essentially destroyed, with 53,000 dead and missing. Injuries and illnesses took many of the rest. There were 16,500 British casualties.


So Subhas Chandra Bose's Azad Hind Fauj is relegated to the following sentence:
General Mutaguchi brought a large number of Indian troops captured after the fall of Malaya and Singapore who agreed to join the Japanese in hopes of creating an independent India.

No wonder we're ambivalent about this one...

Arihant
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 02 Aug 2009 05:17

Re: Indian Interests

Postby Arihant » 23 Jun 2014 17:50

Christopher Sidor wrote:^^^^
It was not our war. The issue the fascist, including the Imperial Japanese, had with India was that it was being used to by the so called allies as a base and source of men and materials.

All of these Indians lives which were lost in WW-II were essentially fighting somebody else's war.


Totally agree...


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests