MRCA News and Discussion

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Viv S
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 03 Apr 2010 23:45

Rahul M wrote:viv, brahmos is su-30mki only, it's the nirbhay that is supposed to give fleetwide LR A2G capability. an aircraft capable version is definitely on the cards.


True but its my understanding (?) it'll be quite a while before the air-launched variant of the Nirbhay is tested and integrated across the board. For the near future the Brahmos appears to be the IAF's mainstay.



bhavani wrote:brahmos is really heavy and the range seems short at 295 km. It is also more expensive. I agree that it is Faster but taurus is more stealthier.


The range in the regional scenario is quite adequate. If you look at the map, you'll see Pakistan's biggest weakness is its lack of strategic depth(though it is somewhat of an advantage vis-a-vis mobilization). Practically every major military installation is within 300kms of the border/LoC. Several are even within artillery range.

Yes the Taurus is stealthier, but intercepting it is still very much possible especially with the induction of the Erieye by our friends next door. On the other hand, they'll need a very lucky break to intercept the Brahmos. Worth the extra $$$ IMHO.
Last edited by Viv S on 04 Apr 2010 00:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby bhavani » 04 Apr 2010 00:01

Taurus KEPD 350 is cheaper than the brahmos at nearly a million pounds compared to 2.73 million dollars of brahmos. SLAM-ER would be nice choice also.

But i think we need something to equal the damn Aim-120 C-7 the pakis are acquiring. Meteor is expected to be in service by 2015 and i think we should put meteor integration as a pre-requisite

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 04 Apr 2010 00:09

bhavani wrote:But i think we need something to equal the damn Aim-120 C-7 the pakis are acquiring. Meteor is expected to be in service by 2015 and i think we should put meteor integration as a pre-requisite


They're getting the C5 AFAIK. Also, the Meteor is expected to finish development around 2013(unless it is delayed again which isn't unlikely). It should equip the first batch of domestically produced fighters(if we order an European aircraft).

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 04 Apr 2010 01:48

yup the pukis are getting the c-5, range of 100km but all that wont mean a thing because the moment they enter Indian territory, they'll end up getting jammed by our home made EW system. The c-7, D are also good option, we can certainly get the C-7 and D isnt far away from induction either, the D is said to have a 50% range increase than the c-7, which puts it over 180km or more. Newer datalinks, seekers and gps guidance modules and better aerodynamic design. Unless the Meteor can be made locally in India or atleast parts of it, the price per unit is very high and expected to cost more whenever it finally gets inducted.

Apparently even Boeing is one of Meteor industrial partners, we might be able to get the Meteor even on the SH if needed.

www.ukdf.org.uk/assets/downloads/m40.doc

Boeing is providing its expertise in aircraft intergration, systems and advanced manufacturing techniques. Boeing's SH and F-15 can therfore be integrated with the Meteor.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 06 Apr 2010 03:53

A Stealthier Rafale?
.................
Active cancellation means preventing a radar from detecting a target by firing back a deception signal with the same frequency as the reflection, but precisely one-half wavelength out of phase with it. Result: the returned energy reaching the radar has no frequency and can't be detected.

It's quite as difficult as it sounds. Some reports have suggested that the so called SP-3 or ZSR-62 "radar jamming device" planned in the early days of the B-2 program was an active cancellation system. It did not work and was scrapped in 1987-88. In 2005, Northrop Grumman paid $62 million to settle a False Claims Act case involving the system.

This may not be the first French attempt to implement AC on the Rafale. At the Paris air show in 1997, I interviewed a senior engineer at what was then Dassault Electronique, about the Rafale's Spectra jamming system. He remarked that Spectra used "stealthy jamming modes that not only have a saturating effect, but make the aircraft invisible... There are some very specific techniques to obtain the signature of a real LO aircraft." .....................

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 06 Apr 2010 23:52

Found this amazing PS of a Gripen in IAF colours..must say it looks gorgeous ! the camo is mostly reminescent of the earlier MiG-29 camo scheme, complete with anti-glare paint near the canopy front and KB serial.

Gripen image in IAF colours

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby John » 07 Apr 2010 00:05

bhavani wrote:Taurus KEPD 350 is cheaper than the brahmos at nearly a million pounds compared to 2.73 million dollars of brahmos. SLAM-ER would be nice choice also.

But i think we need something to equal the damn Aim-120 C-7 the pakis are acquiring. Meteor is expected to be in service by 2015 and i think we should put meteor integration as a pre-requisite

Also keep in mind Brahmos can only be carried by Su-30 (and they require structural modifications to carry it) and even then it is limited to just one. And trials have not even begun, so the future of air launched Brahmos is still a big question mark.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sunnyv » 07 Apr 2010 01:39

Craig Alpert wrote:A Stealthier Rafale?
.................
Active cancellation means preventing a radar from detecting a target by firing back a deception signal with the same frequency as the reflection, but precisely one-half wavelength out of phase with it. Result: the returned energy reaching the radar has no frequency and can't be detected.

It's quite as difficult as it sounds. Some reports have suggested that the so called SP-3 or ZSR-62 "radar jamming device" planned in the early days of the B-2 program was an active cancellation system. It did not work and was scrapped in 1987-88. In 2005, Northrop Grumman paid $62 million to settle a False Claims Act case involving the system.

This may not be the first French attempt to implement AC on the Rafale. At the Paris air show in 1997, I interviewed a senior engineer at what was then Dassault Electronique, about the Rafale's Spectra jamming system. He remarked that Spectra used "stealthy jamming modes that not only have a saturating effect, but make the aircraft invisible... There are some very specific techniques to obtain the signature of a real LO aircraft." .....................


The major problem with the SPECTRA-like method of active cancellation is that the system must sample a portion of the seeking radar's pulse train... to generate a fake dummy , out of phase dummy pulse.
Check Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_sign ... cteristics

The radar pulse train is a form of square wave, the pure form of which consists of the fundamental plus all of the odd harmonics. The exact composition of the pulse train will depend on the pulse width and PRF, but mathematical analysis can be used to calculate all of the frequencies in the spectrum. When the pulse train is used to modulate a radar carrier, the typical spectrum shown on the left will be obtained.


Basically...The transmitter turn itself on...Wait for a specified period of time...Then turn itself off. The rise and fall in power level constitute a pulse. Several pulses in a sequence make up a pulse train. How long is that sequence depends on the radar's intention and design. The appropriate analogy is a real locomotive with the gaps between sections.

A sample of several pulses must be studied. If the system take too short a sample in order to study the pulse train's signal characteristics to create a credible cancellation, the rest of the pulse train or next pulse train will reveal the aircraft,
or may be its possible to neutralize this pulse by sending a out of phase pulse from Spectra along with reflected wave back , given processing of radar pulse by Spectra is ultra-quick and spectra generates a out of phase dummy pulse.
Remember the active cancellation wave that Spectra is sending also contains location of Rafale itself, if wave dosent cancels the returning radar signal , both combine in phase to give an even more accurate position of aircraft (Rafale in this case)

If the system take too long a sample, then the aircraft will be revealed anyway by the current pulse train. The seeking and therefore hostile radar can change the characteristics of each pulse train from one to the next.

Pulse repetition frequency (PRF)
In order to build up a discernible echo, most radar systems emit pulses continuously and the repetition rate of these pulses is determined by the role of the system. An echo from a target will therefore be 'painted' on the display or integrated within the signal processor every time a new pulse is transmitted, reinforcing the return and making detection easier. The higher the PRF that is used, then the more the target is painted. However with the higher PRF the range that the radar can "see" is reduced. Radar designers try to use the highest PRF possible commensurate with the other factors that constrain it, as described below.


The hostile radar can change the PRF from one train to the next, forcing the SPECTRA-like system to constantly recalibrate itself. The hostile radar is employing the tactic called 'PRF jittering'. The 'jittering' technique is common when the radar is operating in an electronically dense environment BUT the 'jittering' sequence is predictable. The radar using this technique will remember the exact sequence of the many PRFs and will perform the appropriate correlation to eliminate unwanted signals that may come from other radars in the vicinity. Civilian airports are places of where predictable 'PRF jittering' technique is used.

But for military purposes like ECM and ECCM, predictability is not always desirable and a 'non-cooperative target' is always looking for predictability. If the 'PRF jittering' sequence is known, this SPECTRA-like system will work as advertised. If the 'PRF jittering' sequence is not known, the system will create many anomalous echoes for the seeking radar, one moment the system successfully canceled the pulse train but with the new pulse train with a different pulse train characteristics the system must resample, which at the very least will make the seeking radar operator suspicious. The goal is to make the operator unaware, not suspicious.

Dassault has tried to sniff these particular Pulse sequence from SU30mki/F15E during Redflag 08, and update SPECTRA's so called digital threat library.
Now if you compare - SPECTRA's Digital threat library is regularly updated but, this library can only hold A fixed information of characteristic Pulse pattern and Jittering sequence. That means Radar such as SLOT-Array or PESA's which always operate at particular fixed pattern bcoz there is portioning of Single Frequency beam
When you talk of modern AESA radar where each sub array / TR module operate in different independent freq changing every milli sec its impossible for SPECTRA to hold information of each wave pattern and generate new dummy pulses.

Finally to conclude- A SPECTRA-like system is a good idea in application , but not against first-tier militaries or Some second-tier militaries who can manage to purchase first-tier radars(LPI AESA) and they will find the aircraft. The balance between sampling and response is what make the SPECTRA system difficult to employ precisely because of the unpredictability of potential adversaries.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Luxtor » 07 Apr 2010 05:36

Kartik wrote:Found this amazing PS of a Gripen in IAF colours..must say it looks gorgeous ! the camo is mostly reminescent of the earlier MiG-29 camo scheme, complete with anti-glare paint near the canopy front and KB serial.

Gripen image in IAF colours


Why do IAF aircrafts have such brightly coloured roundels and fin flashes? If you're going to have camo paint on aircraft wouldn't it make sense to dull down the roundels and fin flashes so that it doesn't catch the eyes of enemy pilots at a distance? Other airforces do have dulled national markings on their aircrafts.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 07 Apr 2010 05:58

I think if the pilot is close enough to discern the roundel, I would hope he has figured out this is the other team.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dorai » 07 Apr 2010 06:22

Cool looking Gripen test ranges here.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost4868469
.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Luxtor » 07 Apr 2010 06:58

Carl_T wrote:I think if the pilot is close enough to discern the roundel, I would hope he has figured out this is the other team.


That's true. Rather curious why other airforces have dulled down their markings. I've seen army officers dulling down their "fruit salad" on their uniforms in battle areas as well.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 07 Apr 2010 07:16

Luxtor wrote:
Kartik wrote:Found this amazing PS of a Gripen in IAF colours..must say it looks gorgeous ! the camo is mostly reminescent of the earlier MiG-29 camo scheme, complete with anti-glare paint near the canopy front and KB serial.

Gripen image in IAF colours


Why do IAF aircrafts have such brightly coloured roundels and fin flashes? If you're going to have camo paint on aircraft wouldn't it make sense to dull down the roundels and fin flashes so that it doesn't catch the eyes of enemy pilots at a distance? Other airforces do have dulled national markings on their aircrafts.


There is this whole thing called IFF too. Just so that people do not get confused at about Mach 1.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Shameek » 07 Apr 2010 08:40

Luxtor wrote:I've seen army officers dulling down their "fruit salad" on their uniforms in battle areas as well.


One of the reason army officers do it is to make it difficult for the enemy to sopt them in the group. Snipers usually target officers / communication guys. OT for this thread though.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby bhavik » 07 Apr 2010 11:59

Luxtor wrote:
Kartik wrote:Found this amazing PS of a Gripen in IAF colours..must say it looks gorgeous ! the camo is mostly reminescent of the earlier MiG-29 camo scheme, complete with anti-glare paint near the canopy front and KB serial.

Gripen image in IAF colours


Why do IAF aircrafts have such brightly coloured roundels and fin flashes? If you're going to have camo paint on aircraft wouldn't it make sense to dull down the roundels and fin flashes so that it doesn't catch the eyes of enemy pilots at a distance? Other airforces do have dulled national markings on their aircrafts.


I think it is valid point and I have thought about it for long.
It really does not make sense for visual IFF in electronic age.
If IFF is visual thing only then our enemies would just paint some aircrafts with IAF roundels and send them in.
Also in BVR regime, there is no point of having roundels bcoz u wont see them at all.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 08 Apr 2010 21:13

Upgrade Mirages Rather Than Buying New Aircraft:air chief marshal


so, mmrca ultimately can cancelled??

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby bhavik » 08 Apr 2010 21:21

nope , I think it rules out RAFALE from MRCA.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 08 Apr 2010 22:01

Samay wrote:
Upgrade Mirages Rather Than Buying New Aircraft:air chief marshal


so, mmrca ultimately can cancelled??


Nothing to do with MRCA. The ACM was just replying to those who trying to say that at the price we were paying for the upgrades we could have bought new aircraft. The ACM clarified that it was not so simple. Retiring aircraft that have a lot of airframe life left and buying completely new ones that would require new training and support infrastructure set up would financial stupidity.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby karthik » 08 Apr 2010 22:47

Just buy the Mig-29OVTs and invest rest of money on mirage-2000 upgrade!! Its not like we are going to fight USA or some developed country, its just TSP with its busted a** jets and Chine with its clones.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 08 Apr 2010 23:43

karthik wrote:Just buy the Mig-29OVTs and invest rest of money on mirage-2000 upgrade!! Its not like we are going to fight USA or some developed country, its just TSP with its busted a** jets and Chine with its clones.


And I would add, buy lots of them!!! :evil:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 09 Apr 2010 00:12

karthik wrote:Just buy the Mig-29OVTs and invest rest of money on mirage-2000 upgrade!! Its not like we are going to fight USA or some developed country, its just TSP with its busted a** jets and Chine with its clones.


What if USA or some other developed country decides to pick up a fight with India for whatever reason ?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 09 Apr 2010 00:53

What if USA or some other developed country decides to pick up a fight with India for whatever reason ?

what reason,
angry on why India is making Pakfa/fgfa ? no western country has any reason right now,,
our no 1 enemy , china , which could do anything to stop us from acquiring any thing substantial, be it mrca,oil,unsc...
right now they are focussing on how to keep us busy reading national red herring prospectus
so developing,getting ascent capability is a must , but not through mig 29 , but from brahmos like indigenous capability,, which is only possible,once we get sophisticated tech from MMRCA contract

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 09 Apr 2010 02:08

Marten mian , what a noble idea :D Why not call the pakis and cheenis also to the yard and cancel this MMRCA :mrgreen:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 09 Apr 2010 03:52

Alright boys and girls... lets get back to the MRCA thread.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 09 Apr 2010 04:15

PratikDas wrote:Alright boys and girls... lets get back to the MRCA thread.


Sorry ... got carried away :oops:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Apr 2010 07:09

Moved the two interesting posts to geo-political thread.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 09 Apr 2010 08:00

I am not sure if we can purchase the Taurus. With a range of over 500km, its probably restricted by the MTCR which Germany is a signatory to.

Doesn't mean Germany has to adhere to the MTCR, its an informal agreement. Obviously Germany would adhere to it but rumor is France didn't limit the range of the UAE's Black Shaheen cruise missiles. That's why the US refused to integrate them on the F-16 Block 60's they purchased.
Whatever platform that can be integrated with the METEOR should be chosen (hopefully its one of the euro-canards that are chosen). If the vendor is not willing to integrate it (Mig, LM, Boeing) the platform shouldn't be chosen IMO. It's expensive but if it lives up to its potential it will be one hell of a BVR missile. That BVR missile is definitely a game changer and would give India guaranteed superiority in BVR combat.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 09 Apr 2010 08:41

^^Agreed, Eurofighter equipped with Python 5 & Meteor only justifies going for MRCA, otherwise its worthless!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 09 Apr 2010 09:34

SO, the Gripen is seemingly an IAF fave eh? So much so that its getting a second chance in May. Good. I s'pose the IAF realizes that its the only western bird that'll fit in the $ 10 odd billion budget. Either that or more fulcrums, so might as well go with the little fella. Good thinking imho. Naught wrong in getting a little diversity and western weapons - meteor, asraam, harpoons, taurus etc

CM.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby VinayG » 09 Apr 2010 09:37

Manish_Sharma wrote:^^Agreed, Eurofighter equipped with Python 5 & Meteor only justifies going for MRCA, otherwise its worthless!


there isz no news that pythons actually used or being tested on typhoons . and test were carried for IRIS-T usage and was successful

source

http://www.eurofighter.com/news/article166.asp

http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/weapons.html

according to wiki meteor is standered weapon for tranche 2 , couldnt find other sources.

asfar as python is concerned no news yet

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 09 Apr 2010 10:06

Cain Marko wrote:SO, the Gripen is seemingly an IAF fave eh? So much so that its getting a second chance in May. Good. I s'pose the IAF realizes that its the only western bird that'll fit in the $ 10 odd billion budget. Either that or more fulcrums, so might as well go with the little fella. Good thinking imho. Naught wrong in getting a little diversity and western weapons - meteor, asraam, harpoons, taurus etc

CM.

Over the years in this MRCA threads whenever anybody suggested f-15 or su 35 for MRCA it was pointed out that we already have su 30 in the same weight class.
Since IAF is going to induct some squadrons of Tejas too then why is Gripen being allowed in MRCA which is of the same weight class? Why not have additional squadrons of Tejas instead? :((
If Gripen is chosen for MRCA that will expose the corruption of this deal totally.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 09 Apr 2010 10:37

Oman closer to a Eurofighter Typhoon purchase

link

Oman edges closer to Typhoon deal, says UK
By Craig Hoyle

Oman has moved a step closer towards acquiring a fleet of Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft, according to the UK government.

The UK has not revealed how many aircraft are likely to be involved, but a government-to-government deal could include some Typhoons to be drawn from its own Tranche 3 commitment to the European programme.

The Eurofighter industry consortium will allow partner nations Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK to sell on some of their production aircraft to third parties, as long as such transactions do not interfere with its own export campaigns with the Typhoon. The UK has already sold 24 Eurofighters as part of the 72-aircraft Project Salam deal with Saudi Arabia. Photo: BAE Systems. The UK has already sold 24 of its planned total offtake of 232 Eurofighters as part of the 72-aircraft Project Salam deal with Saudi Arabia.

Flight Daily News reported Omani interest in the Typhoon as a potential Sepecat Jaguar replacement during the 2008 Farnborough air show. Flightglobal's MiliCAS database says the Royal Air Force of Oman still has 16 of the type in use, with deliveries having started in 1974. It also operates 12 Lockheed Martin F-16C/D fighters.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 09 Apr 2010 10:42

Why does the Typhoon always seem to have a dark blemish on the fuselage over the wing?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 09 Apr 2010 10:51

Carl_T wrote:Why does the Typhoon always seem to have a dark blemish on the fuselage over the wing?

it must be some exhaust from some internal system..hot gases can discolour the paint.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Ajay K » 09 Apr 2010 11:27

Kartik
Post subject: Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Carl_T wrote:
Why does the Typhoon always seem to have a dark blemish on the fuselage over the wing?

it must be some exhaust from some internal system..hot gases can discolour the paint.
Carl_T wrote:Why does the Typhoon always seem to have a dark blemish on the fuselage over the wing?

it must be some exhaust from some internal system..hot gases can discolour the paint.

Posted: 09 Apr 2010 05:21 am


Thought Typhoon should be Euro IV compliant. Atleast should be Bharat Stage IV compliant.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby andy B » 09 Apr 2010 11:48

Kartik wrote:
Carl_T wrote:Why does the Typhoon always seem to have a dark blemish on the fuselage over the wing?

it must be some exhaust from some internal system..hot gases can discolour the paint.


I may be wrong but I believe the dark smudge on ze port side is the APU exhaust onlee. Ze Rafale has it next to its vertical tail fin on ze port side too. Incidentally the Panavia Tornado tails are somewhat blackened too and they seem to have moved ze position of the apu further forward in the EF2k while in the Rafale it is in similar arrangment to the Tornado.

Note: I am not saying that any of the above jets are derived from each other or anything.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 09 Apr 2010 12:10

The taurus missile has been integrated on the f-18 for the Finnish air force. The black shaheen is nothing but the Storm Shadow missile is an expensive and inferior version of the SLAM-ER. the SLAM-ER is far better missile capable of hitting ships, land targets, moving targets and has a slightly longer range of 280km. The SLAM-ER is nearly half the price of ths Storm Shadow and is very capable. It also shares commonality with the SLAM basic and Harpoon missiles. I think we already ordered the Harpoon right?

I am not sure if the IAF will go for a single engined aircraft, personally i dont favour a single engine aircraft. Its safer to go for twin engined birds, the mig-35 i think doesnt match up to the SH, Rafale and EF. Meteor, python-5 can be integrated on to the SH if needed hence its isnt restricted to the Euro birds. SH can deploy not to mention the new aim-9x block-2 which has undergone tests recently to take out ground targets as well, no other A2A missile has this role. Dual role can be very useful during high threat zones. During recent tests an f-15 fired the new aim-9x which completly vaporized a boat as well. At less than 85K per piece the missile is cheaper than all other Sr missiles. Aim-9x's seeker was used for the NCADE anti ballistic missile test as well and the seeker works perfectly.

The Aim-120C is also cheaper and longer range. The Aim-120C sells for $355k and is longer ranged and the new aim-120C-7 variant is better than existing r-77s. Meteor is expected to cost well over a million pounds per unit, for that price we can afford to fire 2 aim-120s and kill the target at a lower cost. 1 aim-120c-7 is said to have a hit rate of over 90%, two is a certain kill, why should we go for a Meteor which is nearly the same range and is about 3 to 4 times more expensive.

mica EM version costs 1.2 million and IR version 1.7 million euros. unless we are willing to pay over $20 billion we wont be able to get Rafale, EF with a decent EU weapons package for less than that. SH with a mix of Meteor, aim-9x, SLAM-ER, JSOW, Al kinds of Paveways, JDAM-Er, LJDAM, SDB, harpoon, cbu-105sfw etc is a better package than any of the EU birds with EU weapons.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 09 Apr 2010 12:11

Blow for the Rafale in Brazil..

Probe launched into Brazil jets deal

Adding to acrimony over a lucrative defense deal, Brazilian prosecutors have agreed to probe a multibillion-dollar contest for the sale of advanced combat aircraft to the Latin American nation.


"The Brazilian government, because of external political factors, has decided to choose the Rafale, ruling out the Gripen and Super Hornet which were put forward at a lower price," the unnamed Brazilian prosecution source was quoted saying in a report by Defense News. "That is against economic principles," the source added.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 12:16

Brahmananda wrote:The Aim-120C is also cheaper and longer range. The Aim-120C sells for $355k and is longer ranged and the new aim-120C-7 variant is better than existing r-77s.


I believe India will be going for the Aim-120D if an American aircraft wins the contract.

Meteor is expected to cost well over a million pounds per unit, for that price we can afford to fire 2 aim-120s and kill the target at a lower cost. 1 aim-120c-7 is said to have a hit rate of over 90%, two is a certain kill, why should we go for a Meteor which is nearly the same range and is about 3 to 4 times more expensive.


Well, the launch aircraft has a limited payload. Why not fire two Meteors instead of 2 Aim-120s? When the survival of a $70 million aircraft is at stake(not to mention the importance of mission its performing), is it worth going for the more economical munition over a better performing one?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 09 Apr 2010 12:18

Eurofighters in Sardinia at their best - Capabilities reach up to 100%

The Italian Air Force’s Eurofighter Typhoons demonstrated exceptional operational availability during a recent deployment for an Autonomous Air-Combat Manoeuvring Instrumentation campaign, to Decimomannu, Sardinia.

The 4th Stormo from Grosseto Air Base - with its IX Gruppo, 20° Gruppo (Operational Conversion Unit) and 904° GEA, Gruppo Efficienza Velivoli (Logistical Squadron) and the 36° Stormo from Gioia Del Colle AB, provided a total of 12 aircraft for the exercise, achieving excellent results during the deployment to the Sardinian base.

In two weeks of activity, 112 missions were completed out of the 114 planned, with an operational availability of 98.3%. This unique result has been made possible thanks to the optimised preparational capabilities of the technical staff of the 4th Stormo and by the attentive predisposition of the logistics department, which provided constant help and finalised the mission whenever any problem have occurred.

Moreover, the presence in Decimomannu of representatives of the whole Italian Eurofighter community helped improve the standardisation process between the Groups. In addition, the AACMI system allowed accurate debriefing which in turn helped the crew in analysing the tactics adopted and the results achieved in the two daily missions launched during the deployment.

The first week in Sardinia has been characterised by 10 Eurofighter Typhoons divided between "Blue Forces" (defence) and "Red Forces" (simulating possible threats). The second week, with 12 aircraft, was dedicated to the continuation of the training with the addition of Composite Air Operations Course, COMAO, missions in which German Air Force Tornadoesn were also included, in a scenario comprising of 16 aircraft, 12 of which were Eurofighters. During the second week, the Italian Eurofighters also carried out an "Open Sea" exercise, flying both escort missions and attack missions together with the Harriers and naval unit of the Italian Navy as well as with Italian Air Force MB.339 and Tornadoes.


Pretty impressive.. but no elaboration on type of missions though...


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