MRCA News and Discussion

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Guddu
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Guddu » 09 May 2010 03:07

RoyG wrote:What kinda things?


See these 2 reports from Strat.
Dated May 8 "Pakistan: U.S. To Supply Military Aircraft, Ship - ReportThe United States will supply Pakistan with F-16 fighter jets, Lockheed P-3C surveillance aircraft, Cobra helicopters and an Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate by June for operations against militants in Pakistan’s tribal areas, Iran’s state-run Press TV reported May 8. The report said U.S. officials assured their Pakistan counterparts during a bilateral security meeting that the military supplies would be forthcoming, and pledged to increase intelligence exchanges between their two countries."

AND

Dated May 7 "India: U.S. Warned On Military Aid To Pakistan: Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony on May 7 said India is concerned about the United States giving military supplies to Pakistan for the fight against the Taliban, saying the hardware could be diverted to target India, AFP reported. Antony urged the United States to be cautious on transferring equipment to Pakistan."

Antony is flexing his SDRE muscles and Unkil is getting into a mine is bigger than yours match (I am talking of muscles, ofcourse). :D

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 09 May 2010 03:59

Antony: That sounds more like a whine than a warning. :((

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Guddu » 09 May 2010 04:53

Carl_T wrote:Antony: That sounds more like a whine than a warning. :((


I think all of it points to back door negotiations. Antony wants good price, full TOT and no weapon transfers to Pakiland. Unkil is using Paki weapon supplies and Af-Pak gift to pakis as counter leverage. I expect a mutually beneficial resolution for both India and Pakiland.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 09 May 2010 06:32

Dunno if this was posted earlier, but this might just make the Shornet far more interesting - From B. Sweetman's Blog - http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:a2d7142d-9fc4-4071-a8bd-7371ec37016f

1) Newer cockpit.
2) More powerful 12.5 ton EPE engines
3) METEOR!! :shock:

However, I wonder how all this would work out since flight/weapons evals of the aircraft in the MRCA race are all done and over with. Or is the IAF/GOI going to do a hollywood style MMRCA: Redux? A part deux could very well be in the offing considering the leverage given to the Gripen NG, not to mention the MiG-35 and Tiffy. So perhaps, we may have round 2 with the following contenders:

MiG-35 - TVC + 1064 TRM AESA + New R-77/R74.
Tiffy - AESA + Meteor
Shornet - EPE engines + Meteor + IRST(?)
Rafale - 9 ton M-88s/Kaveri + Meteor + AASM etc
Gripen NG - current specs.

May be that chaiwalla was right, this is a big circus and the IAF/DRDO is just getting a good look see at all the fancy tech-toys; will ultimately settle for Pakfa, MKI, LCA-2, AMCA. One can only hope.

CM

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby bhavik » 10 May 2010 03:49

Video Shows multiple capabilities including automatic takeoff for F18.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIzHTWQZPB8

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 06:49

bhavik wrote:Video Shows multiple capabilities including automatic takeoff for F18.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIzHTWQZPB8


Ah. I love Discovery channel. Check the part where the chap says about the F-18

"Some planes are fast. This plane is baliistic"


Wah Wah!! Ballistic means that this must be very fast.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby asprinzl » 10 May 2010 07:42

Avram says.....take the German offer. You can always trust German technology. Germany has a technology developing and incubating base which many small industrial base nations can adopt/absorb unlike the American methods that can drown one in techno-jargon or management jargon. If a partnership can be worked out with the Germans for future co-development of other combat platforms....all the better.
AS

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Hitesh » 10 May 2010 09:29

The problem with Eurotyphoon is that it competes with the MKI directly. It makes no sense to go for EuroTyphoon when you can just order more MKIs.

Go for the Gripens.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 10 May 2010 09:45

Hitesh wrote:The problem with Eurotyphoon is that it competes with the MKI directly. It makes no sense to go for EuroTyphoon when you can just order more MKIs.

Go for the Gripens.


One could argue the Gripen competes with the Tejas directly, as well. Also the EF's low RCS, supercruise, AESA and DASS, PIRATE systems complement the MKI's payload and massive range well. And that applies to the SH and Rafale too.
Last edited by Viv S on 10 May 2010 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 10 May 2010 10:35

The mig doesn't compete with anyone. But I think we should go for the cheapest plane as even if the Tejas production lines reach full blast, we still have a deficit of 300 planes when compared to the Chinese.

With the Gripen we could use some of their tech like the datalink and add it to future variants of Tejas. Operationwise, Mig seems to make the most sense though to me.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby koti » 10 May 2010 10:50

@Hitesh
True. For nearly half the price(Twice the number) we get Gripens or F-16's, which can do things involving numbers like saturation or escort.

owever, the MKI's having long range and high payload are going to be assigned even important roles to deliver Brahmos or Nirbhay to high precision targets (though in limited no's). This will definately reduce the resources needed for effective two front air superiority that would be critical.

I hence think we need to add additional multirole air superiority assets to counter this in the form of either Rafale or EF. The F-16's, Gripens, MIG-29's can be matched if not outperformed by our neighbours. But that is not the case with the Rafale or EF.
The F-18 has the cost adventage that puts itself between this two segments I suppose.

The only factor that can justify purchase of the cheaper lot would be the investments in FGFA. If it arrives in time, it should be able to address the air superoirity issue and we already will be filling in for the numbers.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 10 May 2010 11:29

like the new SH upgrade, love the churning out of new tech every few years. The mig-35 is a default option and i think if no one else is willing to play ball the mig will win but griepn NG and SH have a very good chance, the EF and rafale are painfully expensive to operate. SH with new engines, Meteor seems like the best option. it already has the lowest rcs, excellent weapons suite and if they offer full-tot and customization, would be awesome, i think Nirbhay can also go onboard the SH (if unkil has no problems with such modifications on permission offcourse)

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 10 May 2010 11:35

brahmanananda saar you have not told us yet why you would want to give the Uncleji such huge leverage over our Air force.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby andy B » 10 May 2010 11:48

I think the Tiffy offer is gonna become a lot more interesting as the PIIGS crisis develops...note that Italy and Spain both operate the Tiffy....not to mention the humoungous amount of moolah the poor Krauts are having to pay to bail these buggas out. I think in light of this we may see some interesting developments from EADS GMBH and the Consortium in general...JMT

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 May 2010 12:18

Brahmananda wrote:i think Nirbhay can also go onboard the SH (if unkil has no problems with such modifications on permission offcourse)

Offcourse
if unkil has no problems
in integration of Nirbhays (After India pays billions of $ through its nose for 126 jets and that too for a design of 60s)
in having India air force at all
in India protecting its sovereignity and continiuing to have armed forces at all
maybe we should get permission from unkil every 5 years whether to continue as a soveriegn nation at all
I have never read such ugly posts as yours, just a continuous jaap of Unkil's weaponery, this constant chamchagiri of country which has:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5291&start=1560
Sanku wrote:
There may be tons of data that US approach to India and any other country is FUNDAMENTALLY different from approach of any other country.

Some trivial examples are

1) Does any one have EUMA, in ANY form?
2) Does any one need a nuclear liability bill?
3) Is MTCR born of US or other countries?
4) Who funds and props up Pakistan?
5) Who says "China should take charge of Asian security"
6) Who has ISRO on a ban list? Must be the french, must be the Russians CANT be the US.
7) And on and on an on.....

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kapilrdave » 10 May 2010 13:33

^^^^ And it's the same country that made us loose wars on table that have already been won at a huge cost.
Want to forget history and move on (which is a bad idea IMO)? Alrite, but the attitude of US has not changed much as yet.
IMHO US will be a foe in our future wars not friend. Why feed your potential enemy? India has enough brave hearts that it can do without few good technical features for a few less $$$ but to please a beast.

That said, I'm not sure the decision makers think this way. Ofcource, JMTC.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 10 May 2010 14:41

I believe the IAF should opt for a Eurofighter purchase. Basically go for the best regardless of price(if that's not the EF so be it). The IAF's future mainstay is going to be the PAKFA/FGFA so one shouldn't expect MMRCA numbers to multiply like the MKI orders.

shukla wrote:Would if US ever make such a promise???? I doubt it..


They wouldn't state it out loud, but yes. It has almost single-handedly orchestrated sanctions on arms exports to China, which still remain in force despite the fact that the Tiananmen Square protests have been relegated to history. If it weren't for American paranoia PLAAF could today have been fielding well over 126 Rafales or even Eurofighters today.

Even with regard to Pakistan, they've lost most interest in it since the end of the Cold War. Proliferation of US technology to China via Pakistan is a more pressing concern for them right now.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby K_Rohit » 10 May 2010 15:03

Which (if any) of the contenders can carry the Brahmos and/or the Nirbhay? Won' t it make sense to have this included in the specs?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Shatack » 10 May 2010 15:19

Henrik wrote:It's still like your're giving away the ToT for free if you only charge the actual cost to manufacture the plane + a small profit. And that's where "program cost" comes into picture, because that's what the French taxpayers payed.. And since we know that the Rafale is freaking expensive to keep it the air, which can't be blamed on bad fuel economy alone, it just doesn't add up. I you want to make a profit that is, and not giving away spare parts for free. No, I believe it if/when it's official. As a comparison I know that the SwAF pays < $30 million / plane for Gripen C in flyaway costs incl. VAT.


it seems you need glasses, spewing "rumours" to compare with serious studies!

30m$ + vat for gripen C/d? :rotfl:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/ar ... July06.pdf

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 10 May 2010 16:58

K_Rohit wrote:Which (if any) of the contenders can carry the Brahmos and/or the Nirbhay? Won' t it make sense to have this included in the specs?


I'm guessing all of them should be able to employ the Nirbhay. It doesn't make any sense to integrate the Brahmos though. It'll probably be used only for highly defended targets once the Nirbhay enters production. 40 MKIs are more than sufficient for the number of missiles likely to be deployed.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 10 May 2010 19:47

so many cowards who keep worrying about what US will do to India. Fact is they cant do anything to us, they will neither risk escalation or war with India, they know they have nothing to gain from war with India. Even Brahmos integration on MKI needed Russian permission/consultation and we couldnt just modify the aircraft ourselves. Fact is two MKI are in Russia now undergoing structural modifications. Moreover, Indo-US defense relationship is a new one, i'd rather we make slow progress in building a long term relationship. Even old sanskrit verses talk about friendships that build up slowly last longer. Fast friendships dont last, the first major deal with US the c-130J is being executed with and the first aircraft will land next year, we are in no rush to have US weaponry and MRCA is a good starting point for deeping our ties. Eitherway both US and India need eachother. yes i advocate Indo-US relations, we loose so many smart people to the US colleges and companies, hey we might as well get closer to them. i dont say anything about ignoring Russia, i think by bring US and India closer we can bring russia and US closer.

60's design? design process of the SH began in early 80's just like Rafale and EF. It has proven itself in combat and no crashes due to technical failure and has dropped thousands of kilos of weapons in combat. to me what matters is can the aircraft do what we need it do and can it continue doing it on the longrun? SH IMO fits well in our needs but i could be wrong, if the AF wants true multirole aircraft SH is the best. Besides i only say we should buy US aircraft if they give full-tot. If not Gripen NG is good, cheaper and the lowest operational costs. SH has the lowest operational costs for a twin engine aircraft can perform more roles than the others.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 10 May 2010 20:01

Brahmananda wrote:so many cowards who keep worrying about what US will do to India. Fact is they cant do anything to us, they will neither risk escalation or war with India, they know they have nothing to gain from war with India. Even Brahmos integration on MKI needed Russian permission/consultation and we couldnt just modify the aircraft ourselves. Fact is two MKI are in Russia now undergoing structural modifications. Moreover, Indo-US defense relationship is a new one, i'd rather we make slow progress in building a long term relationship. Even old sanskrit verses talk about friendships that build up slowly last longer. Fast friendships dont last, the first major deal with US the c-130J is being executed with and the first aircraft will land next year, we are in no rush to have US weaponry and MRCA is a good starting point for deeping our ties. Eitherway both US and India need eachother. yes i advocate Indo-US relations, we loose so many smart people to the US colleges and companies, hey we might as well get closer to them. i dont say anything about ignoring Russia, i think by bring US and India closer we can bring russia and US closer.

60's design? design process of the SH began in early 80's just like Rafale and EF. It has proven itself in combat and no crashes due to technical failure and has dropped thousands of kilos of weapons in combat. to me what matters is can the aircraft do what we need it do and can it continue doing it on the longrun? SH IMO fits well in our needs but i could be wrong, if the AF wants true multirole aircraft SH is the best. Besides i only say we should buy US aircraft if they give full-tot. If not Gripen NG is good, cheaper and the lowest operational costs. SH has the lowest operational costs for a twin engine aircraft can perform more roles than the others.


Caution shouldn't be equated with cowardice.

Nobody here thinks the US will wage war on India.

Conflict with our neighbors may jeopardize US interests.

Therefore, restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised.

Quit being a buffoon and grow up!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby MadhuG » 10 May 2010 20:32

Could someone please list out what trials or tests are still pending and/or if any dates have been announced by the MoD? Thanks in advance.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby saptarishi » 10 May 2010 20:55

RoyG wrote:
Brahmananda wrote:so many cowards who keep worrying about what US will do to India. Fact is they cant do anything to us, they will neither risk escalation or war with India, they know they have nothing to gain from war with India. Even Brahmos integration on MKI needed Russian permission/consultation and we couldnt just modify the aircraft ourselves. Fact is two MKI are in Russia now undergoing structural modifications. Moreover, Indo-US defense relationship is a new one, i'd rather we make slow progress in building a long term relationship. Even old sanskrit verses talk about friendships that build up slowly last longer. Fast friendships dont last, the first major deal with US the c-130J is being executed with and the first aircraft will land next year, we are in no rush to have US weaponry and MRCA is a good starting point for deeping our ties. Eitherway both US and India need eachother. yes i advocate Indo-US relations, we loose so many smart people to the US colleges and companies, hey we might as well get closer to them. i dont say anything about ignoring Russia, i think by bring US and India closer we can bring russia and US closer.

60's design? design process of the SH began in early 80's just like Rafale and EF. It has proven itself in combat and no crashes due to technical failure and has dropped thousands of kilos of weapons in combat. to me what matters is can the aircraft do what we need it do and can it continue doing it on the longrun? SH IMO fits well in our needs but i could be wrong, if the AF wants true multirole aircraft SH is the best. Besides i only say we should buy US aircraft if they give full-tot. If not Gripen NG is good, cheaper and the lowest operational costs. SH has the lowest operational costs for a twin engine aircraft can perform more roles than the others.


Caution shouldn't be equated with cowardice.

Nobody here thinks the US will wage war on India.

Conflict with our neighbors may jeopardize US interests.

Therefore, restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised.

Quit being a buffoon and grow up!


:D it seems that brahmananda SIR u r negleCting the fear of sanctions,,c-130j ,p-8i or c-17 are transport aircrafts,,, but MMRCA will be a killing machine purely FOR offenSIVE PURPOSES,, the day USA sees that its interests in afgan-pak region ARE in trouble they can exercise controls, plus we should go in for the best jet ie. rafale of eurofighter,,UNCLE SAM IS DRIVEN BY ITS OWN INTERESTS, FIRST THEY WILL ARM U AND WHEN U R OF NO USE TO THEM THEY WILL DITCH U,,,BRAHMANANDA SIR ARE U AN AMERICA BACKED LOBBYIST?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 10 May 2010 21:06

Think about how much leverage the US has over Korea and Israel. We give them a voting stake in the AF if we buy 126 planes. Do we want to be a partially owned subsidiary of the US?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 May 2010 21:07

Caution shouldn't be equated with cowardice.

Nobody here thinks the US will wage war on India.

Conflict with our neighbors may jeopardize US interests.

Therefore, restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised.


Interests of all players are known and so are the dynamics. All players have a role in keeping such dynamics in balance. So there is no need to be afraid of such "restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised". OK, so do not use "do not be a coward", instead use "be bold".

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 May 2010 21:10

plus we should go in for the best jet


Sure. Technically I assume.

Think about how much leverage the US has over Korea and Israel. We give them a voting stake in the AF if we buy 126 planes. Do we want to be a partially owned subsidiary of the US?


India to be among three top economies by 2030: Anand Sharma

Better get ready to deal with this elephant even if you do not want it.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 21:13

There is no such thing as "best jet". Everything is relative.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 May 2010 21:16

It seems to me that this bogey of US sanction has been there (on BR) since about 1995ish.

The tragedy is that nothing seems to have been done about it. The economy somehow just grows, whether Indians plan for it or not, it just happens. At least now Indians should take the reigns and drive this horse in the proper direction.

It is very silly that we KNOW what may happen under different situations and we do nothing about it.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 May 2010 22:03

NRao wrote:It seems to me that this bogey of US sanction has been there (on BR) since about 1995ish.

At least now Indians should take the reigns and drive this horse in the proper direction.

The proper direction would be investing 5 lakh crores in doing R&D + manufacturing of fighter jet engine,civil aircraft engine, helicopter engine, arjun engine, engines for nirbhay & engines for naval ships.

Not chatukarita of khan, ivan under the garb of bahaduri :roll:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby arya » 10 May 2010 22:32

Carl_T wrote:brahmanananda saar you have not told us yet why you would want to give the Uncleji such huge leverage over our Air force.


Sir, u r too good :wink:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby arya » 10 May 2010 22:41

MadhuG wrote:Could someone please list out what trials or tests are still pending and/or if any dates have been announced by the MoD? Thanks in advance.


i think only nastre'da'mas can say something n he has gone to Swarg lok" :rotfl:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Henrik » 10 May 2010 22:43

Shatack wrote:
Henrik wrote:It's still like your're giving away the ToT for free if you only charge the actual cost to manufacture the plane + a small profit. And that's where "program cost" comes into picture, because that's what the French taxpayers payed.. And since we know that the Rafale is freaking expensive to keep it the air, which can't be blamed on bad fuel economy alone, it just doesn't add up. I you want to make a profit that is, and not giving away spare parts for free. No, I believe it if/when it's official. As a comparison I know that the SwAF pays < $30 million / plane for Gripen C in flyaway costs incl. VAT.


it seems you need glasses, spewing "rumours" to compare with serious studies!

30m$ + vat for gripen C/d? :rotfl:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/ar ... July06.pdf

Now you are one arrogant little thing.

Let's do some "serious" studies, let's do some math! Yay! :D

My governmental source is a statement made by the FMV (Defence material administration) in late 2008.
http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/page.aspx?id=4489
I've run the important bits, for the sake of fairness through Google Translate but please, feel free to translate it all if you feel like it!
Yesterday left the FMV of the 204th Swedish Gripen fighter plane to the Armed Forces. The last three terms in the batch. The cost for the entire series of 64 aircraft were all 1.5 billion lower than what has been agreed.

...

Development projects tend to benefit more than the costs estimated when the difficulties encountered along the way, but here Jasprojektet has shown that it is possible to keep the economy even though the system is on the cutting edge of technology. The cost for the customer will be approximately ten percent lower than agreed, the entire 1.5 billion.

To clarify, the cost for batch 3 (delserie 3) came out being 10% lower than what was agreed upon from the beginning, or 1,5 billion SEK cheaper. We also know that batch 3 contained 64 Gripen C planes.

Here comes the math!

Since 10% = 1,5 billion SEK, then 100% is 15 billion SEK. We know that batch 3 turned out to be 10% cheaper than estimated through better production efficiency etc from the translation above.
Now, let's extract the 10% from 15 billion SEK. 15 billion - 1,5 billion = 13,5 billion SEK.
Since batch 3 consisted of 64 planes, let's divide 13,5 billion by 64. 13,5 billion / 64 = ~0,211 => 211 million SEK a piece.

211,000,000.00 SEK = 27,994,688.34 USD or ~$28 million..
So there you go, < $30 million / Gripen C :rotfl: :rotfl:

For the record, your source from 2006 states:
Manufacturer’s comment:
Gripen International AB says “the fly-away cost of a Gripen in the market is between $35 million
and $40 million.
"

Now that isn't very far from the calculations above if consider that your source is from 2006, before they knew that it would cost less than what they had anticipated. As I hope you know, it's fairly rare for the government to pay "market prices" when they have invested a huge amount of the taxpayers money into the project. They go for "bottom dollar".

I think you need to learn how to crawl before you can walk. :roll:
Last edited by Henrik on 10 May 2010 23:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 May 2010 23:31

Just as a FYI, why we need to fear ourselves more than others:

India too late in artillery modernisation: Army chief

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Katare » 11 May 2010 00:35

Manish_Sharma wrote:
NRao wrote:It seems to me that this bogey of US sanction has been there (on BR) since about 1995ish.

At least now Indians should take the reigns and drive this horse in the proper direction.

The proper direction would be investing 5 lakh crores in doing R&D + manufacturing of fighter jet engine,civil aircraft engine, helicopter engine, arjun engine, engines for nirbhay & engines for naval ships.

Not chatukarita of khan, ivan under the garb of bahaduri :roll:


:roll:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 11 May 2010 02:42

Caution shouldn't be equated with cowardice.

Nobody here thinks the US will wage war on India.

Conflict with our neighbors may jeopardize US interests.

Therefore, restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised.

Quit being a buffoon and grow up!


you mean to say US has no interests in India? why don't you grow some balls if you can. when war starts, you'll be glued to the TV anyways so why do you have worry, the only people who genuinly care and the army, navy and AF and they dont mind operating US equipment.

c-130J, p-8i and c-17s are transports no doubt but a war is won with good logistics. yes when speaking of pure killing machines IMO there isnt a better all-round killer than the SH. i keep saying this i guess many here have eye problems or cant read properly go for US equipment if and only if they come with full-tot and source codes.
Last edited by archan on 12 May 2010 06:15, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User warned and banned. Discussion on balls is seldom useful.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 11 May 2010 03:25

Brahmananda wrote:
Caution shouldn't be equated with cowardice.

Nobody here thinks the US will wage war on India.

Conflict with our neighbors may jeopardize US interests.

Therefore, restrictions on supply and use of tech may be exercised.

Quit being a buffoon and grow up!


you mean to say US has no interests in India? why don't you grow some balls if you can. when war starts, you'll be glued to the TV anyways so why do you have worry, the only people who genuinly care and the army, navy and AF and they dont mind operating US equipment.

c-130J, p-8i and c-17s are transports no doubt but a war is won with good logistics. yes when speaking of pure killing machines IMO there isnt a better all-round killer than the SH. i keep saying this i guess many here have eye problems or cant read properly go for US equipment if and only if they come with full-tot and source codes.


Read lines two and three of my post.

Ofcourse the US has interests in India.

It also has interests in our neighbors (Pakistan).

Hence, restrictions may arise in the event of a conflict.

Again, exercising a bit of caution doesn't hurt when dealing with the US.

It also doesn't mean that those who buy into this logic are "cowards".

On the one hand you call us cowards for being cautious and on the other you say that full ToT and source codes is a must.

So I must ask, why the cowardice Keizer?

Please desist from posting nonsensical arguments and reposting specs.

You sound like an American car salesman (not a very good one).

Oh and...When the war starts I'll be stitching up the place where your balls used to be.

aditya.agd
BRFite
Posts: 174
Joined: 28 Apr 2010 00:37

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby aditya.agd » 11 May 2010 04:31

Any plane that is bought as part of MMRCA must enable India to fight a war under all circumstances and be independent of foreign policy of that particular country.

F18 SH has following features:
Day/night strikes with precision-guided weapons
Anti-air warfare
Fighter escort
Close air support
Suppression of enemy air defense
Maritime strike
Reconnaissance
Forward Air Control (Airborne) (FAC(A))
Air-to-Air Refueling
Leaflet drops with Payload Delivery Unit 5 (PDU-5) containers[44]

Do other contenders also have similar features?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 11 May 2010 06:25

aditya.agd wrote:
Do other contenders also have similar features?


These are the jingo brochure features.
Please list a comparison between all th aircraft in terms of

1) Cost per hour of flying
2) Self diagnostics and LRU capability
3) Average percentage availability for ops, maintainabilty/reliability under Indian conditions
4) Performance in hot and high conditions
5) Engine MTBF in smoggy/smoky Indian conditions
6) Faclities/training of support staff required by IAF as compared to what already exists.
7) Percentage offset that can be absorbed by Indian industry
8) crunch technologies that can be sanctioned or may go out of date

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 May 2010 07:58

^^^ Shiv saar to get those info you need to be either a member of CCSA or the IAF Chief


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