MRCA News and Discussion

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Pratik_S » 25 Jun 2010 16:50

BIG NEWS

France offers to Indian Air Force for purchasing 40 Rafale fighters

A French company offered to sell 40 of its state-of-the-art aircraft Rafale fighter jets to India for a bi-lateral air exercise on Friday. An Indo-French joint exercise is to be held somewhere in India in 2011 – 12. The offer was made by the maker of the Rafale and Mirage fighters, Charles Edelstennie, who is also the scion of the Dassult family. Dessult is a multi-billion French military and civil aerospace company.

The chairman and chief executive of Dassult said, “We know the Indian Air Force, with which we have a decade-long close association, is facing force depletion. So we are ready to supply 40 Rafales, the world’s first omni-role fighters to India, in a short span of time.

The officers of French Air Force discussed the idea with the Indian Air Force team, which is now in France for a tri-lateral air exercise in which the Singapore air force is also involved. According to Edelastennie, Rafale fighters could be an interim sale to India to acquire 126 Multi Role Combat Aircraft at cost of Rs 40,000 crore. He said, “It is fulfilling the needs and tasks of the French air force and navy globally.


Sounds like the French are really desperate to sell the Rafael overseas. If we are smart than we could feed on this opportunity and force them to reduce the price. Increase the number to 200 (which would have any ways happened post signing) and let them build 40-50 of those birds us. Thats what they want since the beginning, they have a production line but no orders hence the promise of quick deliveries and crap. We could benefit from this as we will get a very good bird, cheaper than expected in short span of time.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 25 Jun 2010 16:59

smpratik wrote:Sounds like the French are really desperate to sell the Rafael overseas. If we are smart than we could feed on this opportunity and force them to reduce the price. Increase the number to 200 (which would have any ways happened post signing) and let them build 40-50 of those birds us. Thats what they want since the beginning, they have a production line but no orders hence the promise of quick deliveries and crap. We could benefit from this as we will get a very good bird, cheaper than expected in short span of time.


Theres no point in rewriting my whole post, just quoting the relevant bits when you reply is enough mate.. Like I said I am not sure how much to trust this bit of info from a sporadic news report.. There have been similar reports last year with an absolutely identical offer which was politely declined..

We better confirm the reliability of this news report before we head off on a tangent.. Mods? Nrao? Kartik? anyone??

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Danell » 25 Jun 2010 20:31

smpratik wrote:BIG NEWS

France offers to Indian Air Force for purchasing 40 Rafale fighters

A French company offered to sell 40 of its state-of-the-art aircraft Rafale fighter jets to India for a bi-lateral air exercise on Friday. An Indo-French joint exercise is to be held somewhere in India in 2011 – 12. The offer was made by the maker of the Rafale and Mirage fighters, Charles Edelstennie, who is also the scion of the Dassult family. Dessult is a multi-billion French military and civil aerospace company.

The chairman and chief executive of Dassult said, “We know the Indian Air Force, with which we have a decade-long close association, is facing force depletion. So we are ready to supply 40 Rafales, the world’s first omni-role fighters to India, in a short span of time.

The officers of French Air Force discussed the idea with the Indian Air Force team, which is now in France for a tri-lateral air exercise in which the Singapore air force is also involved. According to Edelastennie, Rafale fighters could be an interim sale to India to acquire 126 Multi Role Combat Aircraft at cost of Rs 40,000 crore. He said, “It is fulfilling the needs and tasks of the French air force and navy globally.

...


Seriously , its a joke ;)
Rafael ?
Dassult , Dessult ... mmm Dassault ?
Edelastennie , Edelstennie ... mmm Edelstenne ?
lol and no Charles Edelstenne is not a scion from the "Dassult family"...
...
There are good blogs with reliable reports, this one is only garbage ...

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sathyaC » 25 Jun 2010 21:29

shukla wrote:BIG NEWS

France offers to Indian Air Force for purchasing 40 Rafale fighters

A French company offered to sell 40 of its state-of-the-art aircraft Rafale fighter jets to India for a bi-lateral air exercise on Friday. An Indo-French joint exercise is to be held somewhere in India in 2011 – 12. The offer was made by the maker of the Rafale and Mirage fighters, Charles Edelstennie, who is also the scion of the Dassult family. Dessult is a multi-billion French military and civil aerospace company.

The chairman and chief executive of Dassult said, “We know the Indian Air Force, with which we have a decade-long close association, is facing force depletion. So we are ready to supply 40 Rafales, the world’s first omni-role fighters to India, in a short span of time.

The officers of French Air Force discussed the idea with the Indian Air Force team, which is now in France for a tri-lateral air exercise in which the Singapore air force is also involved. According to Edelastennie, Rafale fighters could be an interim sale to India to acquire 126 Multi Role Combat Aircraft at cost of Rs 40,000 crore. He said, “It is fulfilling the needs and tasks of the French air force and navy globally.



heights of greed :rotfl:
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not Dassult 's greed” :lol: :mrgreen:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 25 Jun 2010 22:51

Agree with Danell that the whole story seems either cooked up or a misunderstanding. While I don't think that spelling mistakes or calling Edelsteinne the scion of the Dassault family (Dassault is the family name) indicate that the rest of the article is BS (since these kinds of mistakes are very common among journos who don't pay too much attention to details), the contents are not likely to be true..he may have been referring to the Mirage-2000-5/-9 sale because he'd know that there is simply no chance whatsoever of an "interim" purchase of 40 Rafale fighters that Dassault could supply fast just because of a shortage in numbers in the IAF. never heard of "All India Today" till now either..

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 26 Jun 2010 01:02

It looks like the whole article is cooked up to spread misinformation about IAF, dassault or both...
american cos may go upto the limits of spreading news abt scams in mrca deal so as to stop any advantage other cos may have got..it had happened in the past -artillery deal, helicopters etc,.
we may see such things as the deal is too big for anyone ,to let go easily ,
lets hope whats 'really' best in India's interest wins .

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 27 Jun 2010 14:03

US wants India to 'favourably' consider IAF's MMRCA bid

US Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, during his meeting with Union Minister of Commerce and Industry Anand Sharma, argued that American manufacturers Boeing and Lockheed are dependable providers of high-technology products and services. In the meeting early this week on the sidelines of the Indo-US CEOs Forum in Washington DC, the top Obama administration official urged India to favourably consider the aircraft bids by Boeing and Lockheed, who are seeking to sell their aircrafts and fighter aircraft to the Indian Air force.

Locke said the US is looking to India to set a trajectory for economic, trade and investment growth in the near-and medium-term. "A clear plan would encourage expanded US-India commercial activity - the kind of activity that would make good on the potential it holds for both our peoples," he said.

"Locke took the opportunity to advocate for US fighter aircraft manufacturers, noting that the US government supports Boeing and Lockheed Martin bids because they have proven to be dependable providers of high-technology products and services - including aircraft - in the Indian defence sector," the US Commerce Department said.

Both Boeing and Lockheed have placed bids for aircrafts and fighter aircraft as the Indian forces seek to modernise the fleet of aircraft. "The Indian government's medium, multi-role combat aircraft competition is tremendously important to the US with vital implications for our bilateral defence, commercial and trade relations," it said

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 27 Jun 2010 14:16

The Indian government's medium, multi-role combat aircraft competition is tremendously important to the US with vital implications for our bilateral defence, commercial and trade relations,


is it wrong with me or does it really sound like a warning?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Neshant » 27 Jun 2010 17:34

Karan M wrote:Countries like Israel leveraged TOT with own R&D to become tech powerhouses.


No amount of money handed overseas is going to create an R&D industry that can sustain the production of high tech products so cut this TOT propaganda out.

Israel has built its hi-tech industries around projects that it initiated using the talents of its scientists & engineers. What they could not build themselves they had ready access to from the US companies specialised in fields that they require assistance or products (unlike India).

Its far removed from what's being talked about as TOT which is a negotiating con job as far as developing an R&D base goes. Nothing is learnt paying obscene amounts of money to get a machine which has no role in any larger R&D effort. Learning how to use a machine or finding out how to do some form of welding is not R&D. Its a ripoff. Its paying money for a manufacturing process obtained at an inflated price.

My suggestion : Cut out the harping on TOT as if we are gaining something of significance without being billed for it 2X over. Focus instead on negotiating to keep the price down. With the money saved, buy outright from overseas the machine/technology that's needed. Negotiate instead an agreement that allows guaranteed unhindered access to consulting/technological expertise/components in those countries permanently and hold them to that in the contract itself.

Now I bet it won't be 5 messages before I see another "WE ARE GETTING TOT!!!!!"

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Neshant » 27 Jun 2010 17:55

NRao wrote:Neshant,
You are closer to the truth. Just in past week or two IIRC MoD stated (open source) (and no need to be a software guy somewhere with knowledge of RCS, etc) that they would fund at least two Indian sources - just as is done in the US - since ToT has not met expectations.



I find it shocking they believed TOT would do anything in the first place.

How did they believe our scientists/engineers would get smarter by subsidizing the R&D base of a foreign country ?

We'd have better luck doing some R&D on how to kidnap those foreign scientists/engineers. Won't be long before someone figures out we need some TOT from pakistan on how to do that!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 27 Jun 2010 18:07

Neshant wrote:
How did they believe ................................


I feel it was more of an expectation than a belief. Perhaps even a right. ????????????? Do not know, but that is the picture I get.

Anyhow, I also feel that "ToT" - although it itself will survive - that expectation that it harbored is past us. That horse - I feel - is dead. Bury it and move on.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 28 Jun 2010 08:41


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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby arthuro » 28 Jun 2010 13:43

Some news from the tech eval from Brazil :

Because of complaints that came to my knowledge I went to check on the ground if there were changes in the report issued by the Navy regarding the use of the Rafale on board the Sampa [Sao Paulo aircraft carrier]. Monday afternoon, friends of MB [Brazilian Navy] and FAB gave me access to the document submitted to Defence Minister and which contains the explanatory memorandum which will be submitted to President Lula.

The signature of the commanders of the two forces certifies that they are original. Some points:

1. From the Sao Paulo, the Rafale can operate with only 40% of its capacity [payload], which could be minimized with a refueling after takeoff;
2. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is unable to operate our aircraft carrier. Its dry weight is beyond the capacity of the wiring, Its length is greater than that of elevators and catapults would not be able to launch it;
3. Even the Gripen navy, which exists only in theory, can only function with a capacity of 80%.

The document prepared by the Navy contains verbatim the explanatory memorandum and indicates that the 3 would operate smoothly with the future aircraft carrier class of 50000 tons to be operated by the Navy. This material, prepared by COPAC and reviewed by the High Command of Aeronautics has been valided. What has changed are the weights assigned to each element. A good example: in the original settings, established in 1995, the weight of technology transfer was 9%. In contrast, the weight of price and maintenance costs were 30 and 40%. No wonder the F/A-18E/F was the winners of the process. The generals have pushed the engineers to accept what they had established themselves as a rule! Jobim returned because that does not meet the assumptions of the new END [national defense strategy .. which favors technological independance]

In the new criteria established with the national defense strategy, the technology package is now worth 40%. It is worth noting that the recalculation of the scores have been prepared by COPAC. In the process, ended 75 days ago [!], the Rafale has emerged as the winner because it has scored regularly on all points.[...] Others competitors scored excellent on some points, but showed a weak performance [latimavel?] in others.

The Super Hornet has been heavily penalized by U.S. law, which prohibits the government from establishing compensation with other states. Everything depends only from the manufacturers, who can not afford the purchase of aircraft for the armed forces of Uncle Sam, for example. For its part, the Gripen present higher risks, according COPAC itself . The Swedes could not even show a spreadsheet about the costs of the F-414 because it was copyrighted by the U.S. Navy. Just to give you an idea, the volume of pages about this issue is equivalent to the amount of pages used to describe the risks of the two others competitors.
There are doubts about the performance of the radar, on the sustainability of the cell, on the implementation of the program and also some devastating certainties, like the fact that, with limited interior space and a lower capacity of energy production , the Gripen offers smaller developments than its competitors. Boys, I read it: written by Copac itself! Furthermore, it was rated slightly higher than the Rafale on the issue of technology transfer, but not enough to overcome its weaknesses and achieve trade compensation by france, which guarantees the purchase of 12 KC-390 and the participation of Dassault in the Embraer program.

About the explanatory memorandum, it is a masterpiece from a methodological point of view. Each phrase refers to an attached document, including the explanatory memorandum sent in December by the Air Force Command, which uses color coding to highlight the strengths, weaknesses, and the median for each unit ... [Exactly what said Istoe... some leaks were more credible than others ..]

For health reasons, I moved away from the forums. […] I hope I have been helpful to the debate.

Moreover, the Navy will operate 48 aircraft on its two units in the future.

Abracos

Pepe


Pedro Paulo Rezende is a well-know Brazilian Journalist (Correio Braziliense / Valor econômico / Jane’s defence weekly)


http://defesabrasil.com/forum/viewtopic ... tart=41760

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 28 Jun 2010 18:54



So this IS true then.. No smoke without fire.. But again, just sell us 126 for $10 billion thanks.. Try that.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 28 Jun 2010 19:40

$10 billion is not an official figure, while 126/200 is

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 30 Jun 2010 05:22

Why would they want an F-35?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 30 Jun 2010 06:55

Is the MRCA going to be split between two aircraft types ?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 30 Jun 2010 08:37

nukavarapu wrote:Fellow jingoes, I think everyone by now is aware of LMs F-35 offer for navy. Just wondering what stops them offering F-35 A for MRCA tender? I mean on the lines of 50 nos. solahs till F-35's delivery begins? I mean apart from the cost.


Because India would have to wait in line and get the first F-35 in some 2025-30 time frame (BUT not as part of the MRCA tender). (google for more details - all info is on the net.)

kit wrote:Is the MRCA going to be split between two aircraft types ?


Officially no.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Danell » 01 Jul 2010 02:05

Race for `mother of all deals' for 126 fighters gets hotter

NEW DELHI: The race for the "mother of all defence deals", the $10.4 billion project to acquire 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for IAF, is getting hotter.

Defence ministry sources said the technical evaluation report of the gruelling field trials, during which the six foreign fighters in contention were tested by IAF pilots both in India and abroad under different weather conditions, was "virtually ready" now.

"IAF is likely to submit the exhaustive report by next week. Subsequently, a shortlist of the fighters which have done well in the field evaluation test and the staff evaluation will be made," said a source.


The commercial bids submitted by the six aviation majors -- American F/A-18 `Super Hornet' (Boeing) and F-16 `Falcon' (Lockheed Martin), Swedish Gripen (Saab), French Rafale (Dassault), Russian MiG-35 (United Aircraft Corporation) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies) -- will be opened, examined and compared only after that.

This will be the first time that "life-cycle costs" will be taken into account rather than just pitching for the lowest bidder. The "direct acquisition cost", the cost of operating the fighters over a 40-year period, with 6,000 hours of flying, and the cost of the ToT will all be taken into account to arrive at a "verifiable cost model" for the commercial evaluation.

Complex negotiations on the 50% offsets specified in the contract, under which the selected foreign vendor will be required to plough half of the contract forex value back into India, will also have to be conducted.

IAF is keeping its fingers crossed that the actual contract, under which 18 jets will be bought off-the-shelf and the rest will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, is inked within a year.

IAF obviously wants to get the fighters as soon as possible, grappling as it is with a sharp fall in the number of its fighter squadrons (each has 12 to 18 jets), which is down to just 32 from even the "sanctioned" strength of 39.5.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 111518.cms

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 01 Jul 2010 06:18

F-35 is a very weak platform! It relies completely on stealth and will be outperformed by 4th Gen aircraft once they have better sensors! With the advent of AESA radars and development of optimised algorithms F-35 becomes detectable and since it has very bad thrust to weight, it becomes a siiting duck! Just go through the analysis at ausairpower .com!!!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby archan » 01 Jul 2010 09:01

kit wrote:Is the MRCA going to be split between two aircraft types ?

I asked a retired IAF officer and he was of the opinion that the order will be split. It was his personal opinion, however. He didn't feel it would be wise to put all eggs in one basket. Given that the decision might be as much (if not more) based on politics/strategic alliances as much as it is about technical issues, one cannot really say I guess.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 01 Jul 2010 12:06

What we can foresee is four fighter types in the IAF future: Su-30 MKI ,MMRCA,LCA and FGFA! Splitting MMRCA again will become a headache for logistics and maintanance.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 01 Jul 2010 12:17

archan wrote:
kit wrote:Is the MRCA going to be split between two aircraft types ?

I asked a retired IAF officer and he was of the opinion that the order will be split. It was his personal opinion, however. He didn't feel it would be wise to put all eggs in one basket. Given that the decision might be as much (if not more) based on politics/strategic alliances as much as it is about technical issues, one cannot really say I guess.


With Su-30 MKI , MMRCA LCA and PAKFA, where is the one basket that contains all eggs??

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 01 Jul 2010 17:14

nukavarapu wrote:Actually, I am very well aware of that. My intention behind my question was purely technical in nature. Like technically how F-35 compares to the other MRCA contenders. I agree that there are lot of gaps to be filled till we can consider F-35 for MRCA, which is not possible in the time frame we are looking it.


There is a diff between what are the tech diffs between the MRCA and JSF (valid inquiry) and "Just wondering what stops them offering F-35 A for MRCA tender?"

For the prior perhaps a google would be the best way to satisfy that thirst.

For the latter, besides the timing, it is progression. LM has stated that the F-16I will have some JSF techs and that the JSF will be a great follow-on/next-step. They would like to sell both the F-16I and the JSF from a business PoV and they seem to imply that the JSF is an overkill for the MRCA from the RFP PoV.

The best seems to be EF and Gripen. There was an article sometime back that both EF and SAAB agreed that to re-engine Gripen with EJ-200 was very easy, but they will do it only if there is a demand from any of the interested customers.


Very interesting observation. Thx.
Last edited by NRao on 01 Jul 2010 17:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 01 Jul 2010 17:15

nukavarapu wrote:With Su-30 MKI , MMRCA LCA and PAKFA, where is the one basket that contains all eggs??


I think he is referring to putting all MRCA eggs in one basket. Depending on one vendor/country for all the 126 planes for supplies, weapons etc. will be a far cry. Especially when except Mig and to a certain extent Rafale, every other vendor is prone to sanctions.[/quote]

100 Mig and 100 of Rafale would make a formidable combo, If russies can turn over the airframe with TVC engines and OLS IRST to French and have them integrate RBE2 AESA and spectra suite on it. While Rafale gets russki IRST.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kronop » 01 Jul 2010 18:09

nukavarapu wrote:The best seems to be EF and Gripen. There was an article sometime back that both EF and SAAB agreed that to re-engine Gripen with EJ-200 was very easy, but they will do it only if there is a demand from any of the interested customers.


I had a discussion regarding the EJ-200 compatibility with F404/414 engine bays with a colleague at Dassault a coule of years ago and he insisted that the main mounting points as well as power shaft position for AGB connection was in the same position for both engine familys making a swap fairly easy.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vipul » 01 Jul 2010 19:12

IAF readies evaluation reports of MMRCA fighters.

The Indian Air Force's marathon attempt to secure a medium range multi-role combat aircraft, with which to replace a rapidly ageing fleet of Soviet-era MiG fighters, has crossed another milestone with technical evaluation reports from field trials of competing aircraft now being readied for consideration.

Reports quote defence ministry sources as saying that these evaluation reports, prepared after gruelling field trials of six competing fighters of different manufacturers, was ''virtually ready'' now. The fighters in contention were tested by IAF pilots both in India and abroad under different weather conditions. While flight characteristics were tested in India, weapon systems were tested in home countries of different fighters.

The six competing fighter platforms are Boeing's F/A-18 'Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16 'Falcon', the Saab Gripen, D'assault's Rafale, the MiG-35 (Russia's United Aircraft Corporation) and the Eurofighter Typhoon (a consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies).

''IAF is likely to submit the exhaustive report by next week. Subsequently, a shortlist of the fighters which have done well in the field evaluation test and the staff evaluation will be made,'' said a source.

The commercial bids submitted by the six manufacturers will be opened, examined and compared only after that.

For the first time ''life-cycle costs'' will be taken into account by the Indian Air Force rather than opting for just the lowest bid.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 02 Jul 2010 11:15


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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2010 13:02

expect some canned praise india announcements in next few weeks.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 02 Jul 2010 19:37



It would be hilarious if neither the F-16 nor F/A-18 make the shortlist :twisted: (I must admit that this is highly unlikely)..

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 02 Jul 2010 21:39

Kronop wrote:
nukavarapu wrote:The best seems to be EF and Gripen. There was an article sometime back that both EF and SAAB agreed that to re-engine Gripen with EJ-200 was very easy, but they will do it only if there is a demand from any of the interested customers.


I had a discussion regarding the EJ-200 compatibility with F404/414 engine bays with a colleague at Dassault a coule of years ago and he insisted that the main mounting points as well as power shaft position for AGB connection was in the same position for both engine familys making a swap fairly easy.


But EJ-200 produces around 20,000 punds of thrust vs. GE-414 EPE which generates 26,000 pounds and the latter enables Supercruise on Gripen!

Manish_Sharma wrote:
nukavarapu wrote:With Su-30 MKI , MMRCA LCA and PAKFA, where is the one basket that contains all eggs??


I think he is referring to putting all MRCA eggs in one basket. Depending on one vendor/country for all the 126 planes for supplies, weapons etc. will be a far cry. Especially when except Mig and to a certain extent Rafale, every other vendor is prone to sanctions.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 02 Jul 2010 22:19

when u have three very good options other than MMRCA, then i guess it makes sese to stick to one aircraft type taht offers the best weapons fit, my choice

F-18 Super Hornet: SLAM-ER/JASSM(if the US overrides MTCR), AIM-120, AIM-9x, AGM-88E HARM, CBU-97/105, JSOW..............

Eurofighter: Storm Shadow, Meteor, ASRAAM,ALARM,CBU-97/105, HOPE/HOSBO....................

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 02 Jul 2010 22:22

But coming depend on any one platform totally would be a mistake for any country that imports weapons, hence the upgrade of Su-30 MKI should be taken very seriously and LCA/FGFA inroduced only if it meets or exceeds IAF contemporary demands........................what do you guys think????

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 02 Jul 2010 22:28

One needs to remember that MRCA will not be the end of the road for IAF! The PAKFA/FGFA will be the fighter of the future and hence India's relations with Russia needs to be very good! in the MRCA is very important as it is a chance of breathing some real life into the Indian aerospace industry!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Jul 2010 22:55

One needs to remember that MRCA will not be the end of the road for IAF!


After 10 years of a MRCA thread one tends to forget that. Thanks for that reminder.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 03 Jul 2010 05:17

Kanan wrote:One needs to remember that MRCA will not be the end of the road for IAF!


Well said my friend, It doesn't mean that we should go offguard.

Edit:: said & n't.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 03 Jul 2010 11:19

Kartik wrote:
Singha wrote:the :roll: indicate sadness that the final product still is not apparently ready - a swing role a/c with aesa that can match the F-18/F-16 in A2G, Rafale in A2A.

and the original users themselves are alleged by the article not to be interested in
investing in A2G instead saving $$ for JSF?


those are the points that I've been mentioning for the Typhoon earlier. Its paying a large premium for great flying performance and A2A ability, while the A2G capability is still lacking and except the RAF, no other customer AF is that serious about it as yet..so what on earth will the IAF evaluate when they test fly the Typhoon ? RAF will display its Austere A2G capability but that is really not in the same league as the Rafale, F-18 or F-16. I don't know if the IAF will take promises of future integration of weapons and AESA as being enough to go with. pay the most and get the least A2G capability ? doesn't sound like that great a deal.



What makes u think that typhoon lacks in A2G capability? If u ask me its A2G performance almost identical to F-18 Super Hornet! Let's analyze..............

1)LAND ATTACK CRUISE MISSILE:
SLAM-ER>>>F-18 =====STORM SHADOW>>>>>EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON

2)GLIDE BOMB:
JSOW>>>>>F-18=======HOPE/HOSBO(IN FINAL STAGES)>>>>>>EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON

3)PRECISION GUIDED MUNITION:
JDAM>>>>F-18=====AASM>>>>>>EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON

ONLY AREA WHICH F-18 SUPER HORNET LAGS BEHIND IS CLUSTER BOMBS BECAUSE OF EUROPEAN SENSITIVITY TO COLLATERAL DAMAGE BUT HOPEFULLY IT CAN BE INTEGRATED ON INDIAN TYPHOONS................................................

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 03 Jul 2010 11:21

INFACT HOPE/HOSBO OUTRANGES JSOW

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kanan » 03 Jul 2010 11:23

A2A WELL TYPHOON OUTDOES ALL OTHERS COURTESY METEOR AND BETTER RADAR THAN THE OTHER EUROCANARDS.......................................

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 03 Jul 2010 11:29

Kanan, please don't use CAPS where they don't belong.


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