Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
shaunb
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 30
Joined: 22 Oct 2009 01:42

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby shaunb » 15 Apr 2010 22:29

Neshant wrote:House of Cards..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSWSL5awfIE


This documentary should be viewed in conjunction with the following docs from PBS Frontline program in the following sequence

1) Inside the Meltdown
2) The Warning

Ideally you should watch in following sequence 1) House of Cards, 2) Indide the meltdown and finally 3) The warning

This just highlights how the Fed (Chairman of the Fed Reserve) and the Govt (Secretary of the Treasury) had ample opportunities to put a stop to this. Also, highlights how the same group of people are controlling the financial systems.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3272
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Tanaji » 16 Apr 2010 01:08

Neshant wrote:House of Cards..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSWSL5awfIE


Sorry, I must have missed this. Who is the guy in the video with the hat?

amdavadi
BRFite
Posts: 1473
Joined: 16 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby amdavadi » 16 Apr 2010 01:52

OBL :mrgreen: :lol:

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 16 Apr 2010 08:31

Hari Seldon wrote:Notes from a sober, nay restrained, and certainly reluctant (aren't we all?) doomer only.

But to be fair to Rob Beithner, he's not as much of a doomer as some others ot there. He's far more measured and hence, believeable.



If I'm not mistaken, Rob Beithner is the same guy who was predicting a good year for the stock market in 2008 in his news letter ??? Can anyone confirm.

Boy did he ever nail that prediction.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 16 Apr 2010 10:10

I wonder if some kind of a Plaza Accord is coming down the line between US and China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2010 13:35

Neshant wrote:I wonder if some kind of a Plaza Accord is coming down the line between US and China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

China's Foreign Exchange Reserves: Unintentional Means to a Strategic End
Author:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/21189/ch ... erves.html

Nicole E. Lewis, National Intelligence Fellow
January 13, 2010
Huffington Post
Growing global reach is an important tenet of China's quest for comprehensive national power, but it is unlikely that even the Chinese expected the accumulation of $2.3 trillion of foreign exchange reserves--with US dollar assets accounting for 65-70 percent of these holdings--to propel them into the heightened global status they currently enjoy. Nonetheless, China certainly can claim a number of wins in its column as a result of concern within the United States and among other developed economies over whether China might diversify its holdings too quickly or dump too many.
Win Number One: The West is not just considering but actually moving toward granting China more say in international financial institutions. At the G-20 Summit in Pittsburgh in September, Chinese President Hu Jintao appealed for an increase in the voice and representation of developing countries in international financial organizations, echoing a call he made at the G-20 Summit in November 2008 in Washington. Indeed, the Leaders' Statement from the Pittsburgh summit pledged to move forward on the reform of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank by shifting 5 percent of IMF voting rights and 3 percent of World Bank voting rights from developed countries to developing and transition countries with the goal of benefiting under-represented countries.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/opini ... ref=global
Soothing China-U.S. Tensions
By CHARLES A. KUPCHAN
Published: March 30, 2010
A worrisome confrontation is escalating between the United States and China. Washington charges that Beijing is unfairly bolstering Chinese exports by keeping its currency artificially low and is troubled by Beijing’s dispute with Google over Internet censorship. Beijing is telling the United States to mind its own business and is chafing over U.S. arms sales to Taiwan and President Obama’s recent meeting with the Dalai Lama.


http://www.cfr.org/publication/21455/ch ... olicy.html
Flawed Arguments for a Stable Yuan
With pressure growing on China to allow the yuan to appreciate, some familiar old arguments are being trotted out to fend off pressure and delay currency appreciation by Chinese officials and some analysts working on China. These faulty arguments should be ignored, and the heat should remain on China for a needed change in exchange rate policy.
The first old argument making a comeback is that a stable yuan is not only good for China, but is good for the rest of the world. The roots of this argument go back to the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98. At that time, China was persuaded to keep its exchange rate fixed against the U.S. dollar when its currency was facing downward pressure to prevent setting off a round of competitive devaluations among the crisis-stricken countries in the region. While at the time this was a very important policy decision by the Chinese authorities, any competitive disadvantage that China may have suffered was quickly more than offset in the period after the crisis by the rapid growth in productivity in China relative to its competitors. Nevertheless, despite a burgeoning trade surplus, China continued to defend a pegged exchange rate until July 2005 (when the rate was revalued slightly and allowed to appreciate gradually until August 2008, at which time the rate was effectively repegged to the U.S. dollar) as being in the best interest of China and the rest of the world, just as it had been in 1997-98.
China's actions in 1997-98 are being invoked by officials in Beijing as justification for China's decision during the current economic and financial crisis to maintain a stable exchange rate against the U.S. dollar. It is argued that this policy helped to support China's growth during the recession and that it is good for the rest of the world because strong growth in China's economy makes a major contribution to recovery in the world economy.


http://www.cfr.org/publication/21902/is ... 71%2Fchina
Is China a Currency Manipulator?

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby derkonig » 16 Apr 2010 15:56

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Global-Markets/Asian-stocks-fall-as-Greece-fears-return/articleshow/5820735.cms?curpg=1
European Central Bank board member Juergen Stark warned that the global economy may be on the verge of another crisis, saying: "We may already have entered into the next phase of the crisis: a sovereign debt crisis."

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby ArmenT » 16 Apr 2010 20:39


Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2583
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Chinmayanand » 16 Apr 2010 20:49

I just got a call from my boss telling me about Goldman charged with fraud. Goldman is the TSPA of the financial world. Will come out unscathed i guess.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21111
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Prem » 16 Apr 2010 20:50

Goldman Sachs charged with Fraud. Hope it gives much needed reprieve to honest folks worldwide.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap_ ... hs_charged
WASHINGTON – The government has accused Goldman Sachs & Co. of defrauding investors by failing to disclose conflicts of interest in mortgage investments it sold as the housing market was faltering.
The Securities and Exchange Commission announced Friday civil fraud charges against the Wall Street powerhouse and one of its vice presidents. The agency alleges Goldman failed to disclose that one of its clients helped create — and then bet against — subprime mortgage securities that Goldman sold to investors.Investors in the mortgage securities are alleged to have lost more than $1 billion, the SEC noted.The Goldman client implicated in the fraud is one of the world's largest hedge funds, Paulson & Co., which paid Goldman roughly $15 million for structuring the deals in 2007.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby shyamd » 16 Apr 2010 21:12

ArmenT wrote:Goldman Sachs accused of fraud by SEC
My only comment is :eek:

This is just the beginning. I had said this in November. December.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 16 Apr 2010 21:44

Its nothing but a road show put on the SEC to showcase to the public that they are not sleeping on the job. Don't expect anything to come of it.

Ultimately nothing will happen to Goldman Sachs just like nothing happened to the criminal rating agencies even when taken to court by investors who got hurt by their lies.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 16 Apr 2010 21:48


svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2010 22:02

Neshant wrote:
Ultimately nothing will happen to Goldman Sachs just like nothing happened to the criminal rating agencies even when taken to court by investors who got hurt by their lies.

Government Sachs is still in town and they want to show they have credibility by going thru the motion

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21111
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Prem » 16 Apr 2010 22:11

The real joke is Pak-Brit lover Moody, now being suspect of endorsing the fradulent documents. They got hit by 11% and more to go.
Satyamev Jayate,

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2010 22:28

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35916.html
The current climate in Washington, Clinton warned, is building the same kind of anger that bubbled up prior to the Oklahoma City attack – though he firmly declared that the energy that built the tea party movement does not have to lead to violence.

“This tea party movement can be a healthy thing if they are making us justify every dollar of taxes we raise and every dollar of money we’ve spent,” he said. “But when you get mad, sometimes you end up producing the exact opposite result of what you say you are for.”


“What we learned from Oklahoma City is not that we should gag each other or that we should hold less passion for the positions we hold, but that our words really do matter. There is this vast echo chamber, and the words fall on the serious and delirious alike,” the former president warned. “Have at it. Go fight. Do whatever you want. You don’t have to be nice. But be careful with what you say and do not advocate violence.”

Clinton said the same kind of "disorientation" that riled Americans during his term is apparent today in "the idea that we ought to bring back Confederate month in Virginia without talking anything about slavery" and "the fact that you ought to be able to pack a six gun into Starbucks and order a Cowboy Latte."



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/04 ... z0lHh1pMmC

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Anujan » 16 Apr 2010 22:34

Tea party fellows are idiots. According to a survey http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-timescbs-news-poll-national-survey-of-tea-party-supporters#document/p1

47% of them dont pay taxes because they are lower in the tax bracket :rotfl:
98% didnt see increase in their taxes :lol:
Most of them want a small "non welfare" government but when asked say that they want social security & Medicare checks :lol: (One lady even said "Oh I didnt think of that" and quit the tea party after the survey :rotfl: )
People in Oklahoma who want to build a Militia to "fight taxes" might want to note that for every $1 Oklahoma collects, they get $1.26 from federal government :rotfl:

Hard to take such Pakis seriously.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby SwamyG » 17 Apr 2010 07:14

Prad, you are hilarious :-)

People have been calling out on these investment managers, bankers and finance institutions for some time. Finally SEC is forced to stage a drama with Gollum Sucks in double role - hero and zero, huh? A question I have learned to ask, after spending hours @ BRF is Why now?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Singha » 17 Apr 2010 07:32

ya ya they will get a minor slap on the wrist 'now you be a good buoy now, tone down the robbery' , a $75 mil fine (which is like pocket money for them) and all records cleared to make a fresh start onree.

GS, rothschilds et al are 'institutions' - they may adapt over time but never really go away.

rothschilds for instance started out with 5 brothers going to 5 european capitals to start their shops like our marwaris sometimes do. over hundreds of years they have lent money and bailed out the most powerful people in europe and probably know more dark secrets than the CIA and MI6 combined. they have deep 'ties' and 'relationships based on trust'
with all who matter and intermarry among the now family branches to keep things tight.

who is going to uproot such arrangements. nobody in power has a interest in getting
exposed or losing their money.

darshan
BRFite
Posts: 1293
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby darshan » 17 Apr 2010 09:22

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 5af65.html

People joked about that possibility for the new stadium, which is scheduled to open in 2012. That's because Allen goes big with its athletic facilities, including its gym with a scoreboard that hangs from the ceiling and the AISD Activity Center, which has half a football field and a weight room that accommodates more than 200 athletes at once.

The Allen dome isn't happening, but the $59.6 million football stadium will be a radical upgrade. The current Eagle Stadium, built in 1976, has permanent seating for 7,400 and can squeeze in about 14,000 with the addition of rented bleachers.


Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 17 Apr 2010 11:08

Fresh trouble in the more picturesque parts of oirostan. But no worry, its not like the sky will fall tomorrow only. Chill pill khao, mauj manao.

Saint-Etienne Swaps Explode as Financial Weapons Ambush Europe

The worst global financial crisis in 70 years arrived in Saint-Etienne this month, as embedded financial obligations began to blow up.

A bill came due for 1.18 million euros ($1.61 million) owed to Deutsche Bank AG under a contract that initially saved the French city money. {flip side shows up uninvited one day, doesn't it?}

The 800-year-old town refused to pay,{shabaash mere sher!} dodging for now one of 10 derivatives so speculative no bank will buy them back, {buy them back? whatever for? They're worse than worthless. They're poison, having anything remotely also to do with them is costly, unless you're the issuing bank}said Cedric Grail, the municipal finance director. They would cost about 100 million euros to cancel today, he said.{else what? I've been bracing up long for a wave of local gubmint defaults across the khanate, turns out the oiros intend to crash bottom first.}


OK, so how bad is it? is it just 1 boor little town or what?
Saint-Etienne is one of thousands of public authorities across Europe that tried to shave borrowing expenses by accepting derivatives deals whose risks they couldn’t measure. {wonder who made them these sweet offers they couldn't refuse.}

They may be liable for billions of euros, according to the Bank of Italy and consulting and law firms in France and Germany. As global economies climb out of recession, the crisis is hitting Saint-Etienne in central France, Pforzheim in western Germany and Apulia, an Italian regional government on the Adriatic. They may pay for their bets into the next generation.{Moot. they can't and won't pay. kya kar loge??}

From the Mediterranean Sea to the Pacific coast of the U.S., governments, public agencies and nonprofit institutions have lost billions of dollars because of transactions officials didn’t grasp. Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, agreed last year to pay more than $900 million to terminate swaps that assumed interest rates would rise.{Yup, rumor is that twas Harvardi alums who did HU in. payback's a beach, some say}


Use of swaps in Europe soared in the late 1990s and early 2000s because banks pitched them as the easiest way to reduce costs on fixed-rate loans, according to Patrice Chatard, general manager of Finance Active, which helps more than 1,000 localities across Western Europe manage their debt.

The financial institutions that sold the derivatives were many of the same ones that received government bailouts to weather the worst global credit crisis since the 1930s.

“These municipal swaps are the same thing as Greece,” said Fruchard, a former banker at Credit Lyonnais, now a unit of Credit Agricole SA, who designed swaps in the early 1990s. “It’s all trying to dress up your accounts.”


IOW, there's no way gubmints will wanna raise rates anywhere anytime soon. The mkt may try to push rates higher and the cantral banks will unleash printer power upon the world. Clash of the titans - irresistible force against (allegedly) immovable object. Who will win? dekhiye break ke baad.....

<break happens>

Municipalities are having to rewrite their budgets. Saint-Etienne raised taxes twice, slashed by three-fourths a plan to renovate a museum commemorating the region’s extinct coal mining industry and sparked the cancellation of a tram line. Pforzheim, on the edge of the Black Forest in Germany, is scrimping on roads, schools and building renovations.
...
For cities like Saint-Etienne, the risks from buying swaps were out of proportion to the potential savings.{punchline, that. Its way out of tune of potential savings now and into the far foreseeable future. The demographic time-bum will become graphic soon enough, I reckon. But hey, no worry, its not like the sky will fall tomorrow. No? Have curry. Only}

“This isn’t traditional asset management,” Fruchard said in reference to swaps based on currency moves in general. “It’s speculative, like a hedge fund. And it’s done in bad faith.{Now you tell me!}

An elected official who takes the benefit from the guaranteed low rates without understanding what happens after his mandate ends is acting in bad faith.”

Accounting rules in Europe help keep derivatives deals hidden. Most local governments have no obligation to set aside cash against potential losses, and reflect only current-year cash flows in balance sheets.


Read it all. And have no worries. Doomer angst notwithstanding, tomorrow the sun'll still rise, and all will be well with the world.

Jai ho.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Singha » 17 Apr 2010 13:12

seems to be a rash of american small bank failures. FDIC must be hoping all these
people dont want to see all their cash in paper form

50 banks failures in 2010.
Here is the list and graph of bank failures :
http://portalseven.com/banks/Failed_Banks_List_2010.jsp


Some facts about these failures in 2010 :
# Biggest bank failure : La Jolla Bank, FSB La Jolla, CA (February 19, 2010 ) - Assets : $3.6 billion
# Costliest bank failure for FDIC : La Jolla Bank, FSB La Jolla, CA (February 19, 2010 ) - DIF Cost : $882.3 million
# Failed Bank with most number of branches : Riverside National Bank of Florida, Fort Pierce, FL (April 16, 2010 ) : 58 branches
# State with maximum bank failures : Florida : 9 bank failures
# State with costliest bank failures : California : 4 bank failures - Total DIF cost : $1.826 billion
# Costliist month to FDIC - January, 2010 : 15 bank failures : Total DIF cost - $3.217 billion

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 18 Apr 2010 03:26

poof
Last edited by Neshant on 18 Apr 2010 14:41, edited 2 times in total.

Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 18 Apr 2010 03:49

I think Nature too is playing its due with respect to economic metldown - I am talking about severe and very unusual winter in NE US and now the volcanic crisis in Iceland and resultant shutdown of air transporation to major parts of western europe. Wonder how long its going to last and what effect it will leave on the people inhabiting those barbaric lands.

May the world become a safer place to live - Amen!

Added later: regarding ongoing volcanic crisis, one witty turd on ZH comments thus : The black swan we have all been waiting for is indeed airborne and black.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4846
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Neshant » 18 Apr 2010 14:42


Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Apr 2010 21:40

From a guest contributor on zero hedge. TIFWIW onlee.

link

Excerpts from an Academic paper examining the question of "Whether the financial sector has grown too big". Wonder why academia can't see the obvious and has to ask for it.

Figure 7 shows the evolution of banking sector assets in the UK during the twentieth century. While they stood at around 50% of GDP until the 1970s, they rose to 300% by 2000, and to 550% by 2007. While part of this development is a natural consequence of being an international financial centre, it is difficult to justify such a dramatic expansion merely on the grounds of the rising importance of finance as a tool to fuel growth. In addition, the explosion in the size of the financial sector has posed major problems for regulators in the wake of the financial crisis, when they were faced with addressing the systemic implications of very large, individual banks. For example, in 2007 the liabilities of Barclays exceeded the UK’s GDP, the liabilities of Deutsche Bank stood at 80% of Germany’s GDP, and the liabilities of Fortis were several times larger than the GDP of its home country, Belgium. [18] As some observers rather provocatively remarked, such financial institutions may not just be “too big to fail”, but in fact “too big to exist”.


This announcement makes it clear what the euro area authorities have said since many months, i.e. that a scenario of default and exit from the euro area, which some market participants and observers had toyed with, was simply absurd. The cost of such a doomed scenario, on which not many have really thought thoroughly, is immensely larger than implementing the adjustment that the Greek society has to do in any case. This has been recognized not only by the Greek Government but also by its citizens.

If it was so obvious - one might ask - why wasn’t the decision by the euro area countries and the Greek government taken earlier? It is indeed a good question. The answer has much to do with the political process and the time that it sometimes takes in our democracies to take certain decisions.
...

While democracies need time to take decisions, financial markets act quickly, accelerating their position-taking at any sign of indecision by the policy authorities. Furthermore, the Lehman Brothers case shows that democracies are not always able to deliver the most rational and efficient solution. Under certain circumstances it is thus rational for markets to bet on the irrationality of the democratic decision-making process. It was irrational to let Lehman Brothers fail, but it happened. Those who bet on that failure earned a substantial amount of money. So why not bet on a possible irrationality of European decision-making? "


Interesting....what irrationality re EU is referred to here - that they'll ultimately bailout greece or not bailout greece and the pigs?
Read it all.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby SwamyG » 18 Apr 2010 22:22

biraders: Every now and then I used to throw in the word "dharma" into this perspective dhaaga. I have voiced that we should look at a modern economic model based on Purusartha - call it the Purusartha Economic Model or Dharmic Economic Model. Then I ponder how many think I am totally unwashed, naive and a motley fool. In addition, being one of the unfortunate to have not gone through the rigous of yumbeeyea, me thought "I am just crazy". There is something for me to cheer.

Modern Strategy and Hinduism: Finding Parallels. Written by Vijay Govindarajan a Dartmouth Professor.

Now "The Fourteenth Banker" has picked it up in his own blog: http://thefourteenthbanker.wordpress.com/. He adds the following:

My view is that many spiritual traditions are descriptive of realities experienced by those who practice them or originally formulated the chief doctrines. While it is easy for those unaccustomed to the particular tradition to disregard the form, the underlying basis for the form is often quite profound.

This particular conception of Deities is really based on the obvious cycles seen in the earth. Life itself is sustained, destroyed or ended, and provides the seed for the next cycle of creation.

He posits that organizations that embrace such priorities are more likely to succeed.

Therefore, the preservation of the status quo is a natural tendency and those who are engaged in it are behaving instinctually and rationally from their perspective. But for those able to see, if that form of organization no longer serves the greater purpose, then its destruction brings fertile possibility of new creation.

The Congress must move to allow the creative destruction to take place. The status quo is not acceptable. Moving forward boldly is required of the times.


India has so much to offer in these dark economic days.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby SwamyG » 19 Apr 2010 00:27

^^^
Who said it was a crime, uh?

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Anujan » 19 Apr 2010 01:07

prad wrote:not openly said, but the responses from everybody make it look like one.


This is a Classic "Yindia supporting Blochistan terrorists :(( " tactic. Puts India on the defensive and unable to complain about the actual terrorism from Pakistan.

If you bothered to read BRF carefully, Ombaba has been called anything from a Musliam Appeaser to EJ to Idiot who gets taken in by Paki propaganda. This very dhaaga has been filled with conspiracy theories of democrats being a wolf in sheep's clothing. Kilton Shahib and Sahiba have been accused of being in Chinese pockets. Dont even get started on the Dems appointees like Geithner and Holbroke. They are BRF favorites to use as a punching bag to relieve stress.

What special treatment to democrats hain ji?

The reason I found it appropriate to call the tea party guys as Idiots, is because of the Nazi Sign that they carry around, some in the crowd show ombaba as a witch doctor, and their heroine Sarah Palin definitely has a single digit IQ. Their inability to mount a coherent argument, selective memory and wrong facts (Like Ombaba bailed out banks!! No he didnt, Bush did), makes me doubt their intelligence. Their message of less entitlements might be sane, but their means of appealing to conspiracy theory and cheap tactics like calling Ombaba a kenyan secret muslim is despicable. I am no friends of the democrats, but I definitely would doubt the sanity of people who think Glen Beck is a Godsend.

Here is some amusement for you:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201004140003
Last edited by Anujan on 19 Apr 2010 01:16, edited 1 time in total.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Apr 2010 07:58

^^^^ Bah, cut it will you two noble gentlemen?

When moi was in yamrika, moi followed US domestic political discourse with all the asscoiated, entertaining partisan-giri. Now no longer. The Democraps and the Repuglycans mean the same thing to me now - useless where India and Indian interests are concerned.

That said, the tea p[arty movement that once started with some promise has floundered and how. If they're really serious about their original stated aims, they should long ago have drafted Ron Paul as their movement's spiritual and intellectual mentor rather than allow a Palin to hijack it so easily only. That's another story for another day, perhaps.

I've stayed a few yrs in and seen close-up the machismo-atic assumptions underpinning yamrika ("there's only one!"). I'd rather the good thing happen - a canadian/EU stylehealthcare and welfare model that actually spends money on people's biggest problems and gives the underprivileged (and there're many such, even in yamrika!) a shot at a life of quiet dignity. Of course, wouldn't hurt to cut back on some of the mil bases and distant wars and misadventurism and stuff to fund this turnaround towards caring for one's people and all.

But perhaps, that's too much to ask for. Fine.

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby derkonig » 19 Apr 2010 10:11

Anujan wrote:If you bothered to read BRF carefully, Ombaba has been called anything from a Musliam Appeaser to EJ to Idiot who gets taken in by Paki propaganda. This very dhaaga has been filled with conspiracy theories of democrats being a wolf in sheep's clothing. Kilton Shahib and Sahiba have been accused of being in Chinese pockets.


All guilty as charged. Period. Besides, if anyone is looking for the root cause of this sub-prime crisis, look no farther than kilton sahib and his brand of affirmative akshun of providing affordable homes to blacks, illegal mexicans and assorted minorities (red dhimicratic vote banks) or in short people who had no right to buy the homes that they eventually bought.

As for Repubs, while yes, they have their share of bible thumping EJ, they still do a far better job of managing the economy that the dhimmicrats anyday. Hussein Obama is the worst that could happen to Unkil.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Apr 2010 11:17

Janta, can we pls take the US partisan-giri elsewhere? Rather sad to see well-meaning folks who have indicated they have been following this thread for a while open their posts here with partisan bickering only.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13004
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Suraj » 19 Apr 2010 11:54

prad: Please do not use threads as your own rhetorical soapbox; you have your own prior record of having been a participant in bringing partisan US politics into this forum. If you feel 'the other side' gets more press here, then you have two options:
* Report the post if it is egregious enough
* Ignore it, because this is not the forum for it.

We will not tolerate posters publicly taking on, and dividing each other here based on another nation's political faultlines. No active efforts will be made to ensure =/= of such political affiliations. When you come here to post, please leave your Republican/Democrat/whatever membership cards at the door.

Thanks.

Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2583
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Chinmayanand » 19 Apr 2010 15:56


derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby derkonig » 19 Apr 2010 16:27

^^^
The article is fine but the source dailykos is not. Its a site for, of & by the commies/dhimmicrats. Just see the hussein obama shills in the comments section.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Apr 2010 16:44

Chan akya in atimes generalizes the SEC suit against Goldman.

Neat, easy, understandable explanation of what exactly Hedge funds Messrs Paulson & Co and Magnetar were doing in cahoots with I-banks to screw vanilla 'investors' in RMBS securities, primarily CDO tranches. (These investors turned out to be big institutional investors such as european and Asian central banks.)

And the hedge funds then proceeded to methodically screw the tactically brilliant wall st i-banks into the ground as well.

Good read. IMVHO of course.

link

Then there is the issue of complicity in the transactions - the subject of the SEC allegations against Goldman Sachs on Friday. The Pro Publica report on the Magnetar trade has the following gem of a paragraph:
At least nine banks helped Magnetar hatch deals. Merrill Lynch, Citigroup and UBS all did multiple deals with Magnetar. JPMorgan Chase, often lauded for having avoided the worst of the CDO craze, actually ended up doing one of the riskiest deals with Magnetar, in May 2007, nearly a year after housing prices started to decline. According to marketing material and prospectuses, the banks didn't disclose to CDO investors the role Magnetar played.

The last sentence should have a chilling effect on the management of the various banks involved - this is precisely the same allegation that the SEC has made about Goldman Sachs.


When considered from the perspective of the various investment banks involved, it is clear that there were no "winners" here. The top five investment banks by value of deals done for Magnetar are as shown in the table below.

As luck or otherwise would have it, all five of these investment banks were adversely affected by the financial crisis in a maneuver known popularly as "eating as your own cooking". Citigroup had to be bailed out by the US government and UBS by the Swiss National Bank, while Merrill Lynch sold itself to Bank of America to stave off an impending bankruptcy. Calyon, which has recently been renamed "Credit Agricole CIB" also suffered massive losses, and Lehman Brothers of course went spectacularly bust in 2008.


I first thought twas the search for the greater fool that did these banks in as the music stopped prematurely and these big banks were left holding the can. But that's not so. The tactically brilliant bonus-lords on wall st screwed not just investor janta but their own parent banks perhaps deliberately. Read on....

In many of these banks, the existence of inter-departmental friction could have well led to the comical situations wherein toxic deals manufactured by one side of the bank ended up in another area. Even when bankers know that deals have been "gamed" to benefit certain hedge fund clients, it is also a good bet that internal disclosure of such practices would be minimal, not the least because the narrow interests of the bankers (being the annual bonus check) almost contradict the interests of the bank (longer-term profits and strong client relationships).

When bankers know that the deals they created are destined to blow up, they would quietly collect their bonus checks and then go to work somewhere else. Even when they know that the deals being purchased by another part of the bank are exactly the same as the very deals that they have created to be blown up, such bankers would keep mum - indeed the perverse incentive would be to gently egg on the idiots in the Treasury department even as the investment banking group rakes in the profits and fees. :lol:


Well, well. Poor Harvard itself got screwed by these i-bank types among its own alumni. The tactically brilliant wall street big banks also went on a vulturing spree amongst local gubmints (Jefferson country, AL anyone?) systematically ripping them off with products they could not understand but which were giving a few yrs worth of immediate benefit (shades of teaser rates and option ARMs anybody?).

OK, so how bad was this side of the trade? Take the case of one of the smarter banks on wall st today that was rumored to have evaded the crisis - JPM chase.
Of the banks that did NOT blow up subsequently, JPMorgan appears to have lost a significant portion of the deal done with Magnetar - the article claims that the bank lost $880 million of the deal it did for Magnetar on the portion it couldn't sell and left on its own books. When a bank makes fees of $20 million, and then proceeds to lose $880 million on the deal while paying the bankers involved in putting the deal together at least $10 million for their "genius", what you have is as clear a failure of risk management as can ever be made visible. :lol:

The notion that JPMorgan, or indeed any other bank, walked on water and had superior insights into the crisis is belied by the latest details of what actually went on. {Amen}


Bottomline? Highly entertaining if it weren't so serious.
That we have an active group of investors, regulators, politicians and others waiting to organize lynch mobs to deal with the people considered most responsible for the crisis - bankers and assorted villains from the financial industry - has been clear for some time now.
...
The most important roadblock to these measures has been the hitherto well-held assumptions that all participants in the financial markets were "adults"; in other words, that since both buyers and sellers were market professionals there were really only a few true victims from the crisis.


Re the bolded portion - WRONG. Turns out it was fraud at the epicenter of the worst fin meltdown in decades. Fraud that has thus far been woefully inadequately been investigated, prosecuted or otherwise dealt with.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Apr 2010 19:48

DYlan Ratigan is fast becoming the tv anchor to go to decipher the wall st shenanigans in average joe's language.

Must-watch folks. Video embedded. The first 8 minutes are worth gold.

Goldman Sachs Fraud Roundup; The Story Has Just Begun

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby Singha » 19 Apr 2010 19:53

well for all the D&G here, does the avg street level trooper in sher khan understand
what is happening - or are they still kept pacified with cheap beer, burgers and football?

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown (Jan 26 2010)

Postby SwamyG » 19 Apr 2010 20:14

Hari Seldon wrote:DYlan Ratigan is fast becoming the tv anchor to go to decipher the wall st shenanigans in average joe's language.

He makes up for NBC family's other hosts like Erin Burnett, Jim Kramer, Larry Kudlow and the clowns on 'Fast Money' program. I couldn't take them anymore and moved to Bloomberg Television. Eveny my younger son likes Betty Liu on Bloomberg TV :-)

Singha sahib: It is baseball season now, so it is beer + hot dogs for now onlee :-))
Last edited by SwamyG on 19 Apr 2010 23:35, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests