Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

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abhishek_sharma
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Qureshi rejects Musharraf govt claim on Kashmir

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ashmir-820
ISLAMABAD, Feb 7: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi rejected on Sunday claims made by a former foreign minister that Kashmir dispute had reached a point close to settlement as a result of backchannel diplomacy with India.

Talking to journalists here, Mr Qureshi said: “Neither I, nor the people of Pakistan have any knowledge about a Kashmir solution evolved by the previous government.” He said that any such proposal had never been debated, nor there was any record about it at the Foreign Office.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan: Vindication on Afghanistan, Assertive with India - Nirupama Subramanian, The Hindu
Excerpts
As New Delhi prepares to put the Mumbai attacks behind for a re-engagement with Pakistan, there is confidence in Islamabad that its new importance to international interests in the region can be leveraged to secure its own interests vis-a-vis India.{Same story since 1950s being played out yet again, to the detriment of India}

After years of being seen as part of the problem in Afghanistan, Pakistan is savouring what it calls a vindication of its position on how to end the conflict in that country, and is confident it holds the key to the proposed new plan of “reconciliation” with the Taliban.

New Delhi will need to factor in a resurgent Pakistani military, assertive about its concerns and self-assured of the resonance these carry in the halls of power in the U.S. and Europe.

Certainly, the new international mood seems to have played some role in drawing India back to the negotiating table.

Described as the “gatekeepers” to the Taliban, Pakistan would have a crucial role in delivering the Taliban to the table, either through coercion or persuasion. But it is being careful not to be seen as muscling in to impose its own agenda in Afghanistan. The mantra in Islamabad is that the process should be “Afghan-led”. {Clear case of hudabaiyah & taqiyah}

But suspicious of its intentions, President Karzai has not been keen to involve Pakistan as a mediator, while the rest of the international community too is aware that while Islamabad could play a positive role, it could also use its influence over the Taliban to play “spoiler.” But, most observers say, no country except Pakistan can guarantee an end to the conflict in Afghanistan.

A Foreign Ministry official, who wished not to be identified, was blunter: “We do not really see India playing any role in Afghanistan. Any role for India in Afghanistan can only be problematic”.

Also, U.S. demands to “do more” against the Afghan Taliban holed up in Pakistani territory no more hold any logic, said Imitiaz Gul, author of a book on Al Qaeda and head of the Islamabad-based Centre for Research: “These demands have to a back seat. If we have to talk to them, why antagonise them?”

As Pakistani observers see it, their country has never been better positioned in recent times.

“The regional situation is moving towards Pakistan’s advantage. We have a strategic opening and we should use it to our advantage,” Mr. Sayed {that is Mushahid 'Mandela' Hussain Sayed} told The Hindu. This, he said, should include reining in India from using Afghanistan for what he alleged were its covert activities in Pakistan, and pushing for a solution on the Kashmir issue.
As usual, Pakistan arrogantly jumps to conclusions and wants to assume a dominating position beyond its legitimate clout and strength vis-a-vis India. However, there is no denying the fact that the turn of events in Afghanistan, which did not come as a surprise to BRfites, has given an edge to Pakistan in negotiations with India. It could be that the haste with which India wants to go ahead with talks is partly because it senses that as months progress, Pakistan may gain more strength due to the developing situation in Afghanistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Qureshi rejects Musharraf govt claim on Kashmir

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ashmir-820
Talking to journalists here, Mr Qureshi said: “Neither I, nor the people of Pakistan have any knowledge about a Kashmir solution evolved by the previous government.” He said that any such proposal had never been debated, nor there was any record about it at the Foreign Office.
This comes from the arrogance of a perceived upper hand that Pakistan seems to have gained over India after the London Conference. It will now repudiate similarly the Sir Creek solution as well.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Pranav »

Actually intentions of US/UK vis-a-vis Af-Pak still seem a little murky - there are conflicting signals.

Here is some other news: Big offensive builds up in Afghanistan, thousands flee: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 546626.cms
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Prem »

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ext-door/1
Bully next door
Obviously, India has used the composite dialogue to show to the world that it is a
reasonable and responsible state without making a sincere effort at finding mutually
acceptable solutions to its bilateral disputes with Pakistan. It has actually pushed for
its ‘wish list’ vis-à-vis Pak-India relations without paying any attention to Pakistan’s
concerns. In fact, under the cover of normalisation of relations, it has gone on to
take steps to squeeze Pakistan further. Instead of making any effort to allay the
fears of Pakistan regarding the building of dams on river Jehlum, it has announced
projects on the Chenab as well, creating strong doubts about its sincerity to the
Indus Water Treaty.
( it has been stupid of India to allow the free flow of water to Paquiland for long. It was our water which made the food grow there and caused multiplication of terrorists since 47. any issue related to water must == NSA) Evidence that its numerous consulates on the Pak-Afghan border are supporting disturbances in FATA and Balochistan, has also come forth. The present initiative is
seen as an attempt by India to ease the pressure of the international community for resumption of talks with Pakistan, rather than a sincere desire on its part at finding.
solutions to serious problems between the two countries
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by anupmisra »

The usual paki towel

Pakistan Ka Kia Banay Ga?
What will happen to Pa'astan?
“Pakistan Ka Kia Banay Ga” is the most asked question today by the general public, who are full of scepticism and doubts about the future of their homeland.
Whether you talk to ordinary folks in the streets, the top executives and high professionals in the private sector, members of the civilian or military bureaucracy, businessmen or politicians, everybody is unsure, uncertain and in a state of disbelief.
There is something seriously going wrong here. As a nation, we are on the fast track of decline. Corruption is unbridled, mismanagement is the rule of the day, law and order is deteriorating, governance has lost its meaning and the state institutions are in complete disarray.
So far so good. Now the bashing starts:
The government, the prime minister, the cabinet and all other executive institutions are held hostage to the whims and wishes of just one man — the democratically elected President Asif Ali Zardari.
The institutions of the Pakistan Army and the ISI have been put on the defensive after being repeatedly but subtly blamed for conspiring against democracy (read president).
The year 2010 is critical for the military. The incumbent Army chief is completing his tenure in October this year.
The incumbent ISI chief is also retiring next month. The ISI would be destroyed if this state institution gets any weak or pro-American leader after its incumbent chief’s departure.
On the civilian side, the bureaucracy is politicised like never before, totally disgruntled and disappointed.
The Pakistan Steel Mills is swallowing billions of rupees from the public kitty every month.
The Pakistan International Airlines has become yet another white elephant but mismanagement and controversial appointments are continuing unchecked in it.
The Pakistan Railways is too making heavy losses
the Insurance Corporation of Pakistan are also on the fast track of joining the list of white elephants dependent on hundreds of billions of annual grants from taxpayers’ money.
The FIA is highly politicised and dances to the tunes of the rulers.
Privates businesses and major investors are on the run because of extremely poor conditions.
Pakistan cannot sustain to be run in the present fashion. It requires a change
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by anupmisra »

First there was djinn power. Now there are stealth IEDs
Tellibunnies reach a new level of scientific achievement.

Taliban claim their IEDs are undetectable
The Afghan Taliban claimed on Saturday that hand-made landmines could not be detected by state-of-the-art equipment made by the US and its allies.
“The American and British gadgets can only detect those landmines that are made by using modern technology in factories. These gadgets cannot discover hand-made landmines because we use such material in landmines that cannot be detected by advanced technology,” They said each landmine was prepared at a cost of just $85.
Are the tellibunnies using the same Laloo technology that was implemented by the esteemed railways minister for baked earthen tea cups?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by anupmisra »

Its because of India (or rather lack of India)
I have heard sorry excuses that could make one cringe. You think you have heard it all. This one will make you shake your head in disbelief. Only from the mid of a paki:

India’s absence contributed to T20 flop-show, says Azam Khan
Pakistan may be the ICC Twenty20 world champions but their under-21 team failed to make the 11th South Asian Games’ Twenty20 final, attributing their lack of motivation to the absence of arch-rivals India. :shock:
Indian participation would have lightened up the competition. There would have been more enthusiasm, more competition. We really missed India’s participation,” Pakistan coach Mohammad Azam Khan said.
If India were here, our boys would have played more positive cricket. But we are still clueless why did they not take part in the cricket competition?” the 40-year-old said. :((
Go figure!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

SSridhar wrote:As usual, Pakistan arrogantly jumps to conclusions and wants to assume a dominating position beyond its legitimate clout and strength vis-a-vis India.
As usual you have hit the nail on the head. However, it is in this same TSP behavior lies hope for you and me. Even so called hardline diplomats in TSP are now beginning to caution about the establishment developing "Hamid-Gul-itis" and not push it too far, but we know that it is like the proverbial dog's tail.

I'm actually not fully buying the theory that the London conference and other developments are a major win for TSP. Yes, they are clearly better off now than a few years back, but if you want to see how the intelligent RAPE mind feels, read Ejaz Haider, Moeed Yusuf etc. They both say the same thing - once TSPA agrees to be the intermediary with Mullah Omar, the sole responsibility for ensuring that Omar disowns Al Qaeda in a veriable manner rests in Rawalpindi. The deniability disappears forever and all it would take is one attack in the West to bring down a hammer 100 times worse than in 2001. Sure, TSPA/ISI may weasel out of that situation too, but this is no win for TSPA.

Afghanistan is like a hot potato - it is easy to make life hard for others who are passing the potato, but the moment you catch it, the roles are reversed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

Rangudu wrote:The deniability disappears forever and all it would take is one attack in the West to bring down a hammer 100 times worse than in 2001. Sure, TSPA/ISI may weasel out of that situation too. . .
Well said, Rangudu. I think that Pakistan now recognizes that the emerging situation will not be as lenient as it was before 9/11. Pakistan, will appropriately change its tactics too, I guess. It knows well that attacks on India will not invite retribution as it would on Western interests. After all, Pakistan's sole agenda is India and so long as a pliant state exists in Afghanistan, it will be happy. If we look at its actions since 9/11, it probably recognized this fact a long time back. It has done everything to protect the pliant Taliban and win over the non-pliant Taliban or allow the Americas to kill the recalcitrant leadership even as it feigned anger at violation of its sovereignty. It may be Pakistan's thinking that the home-grown jihadi tanzeems may be more easily controlled by it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Suppiah »

How can Taliban becoming TSP's baby officially and openly (it has always been) be good for TSP ie from TSP's standpoint? It is actually good for India because

Let us say Taliban comes back. What Taliban says before grabbing power and what it does are different things. It will give up on sponsoring global jihad (which it never bothered with until OBL joined them) and that suits Unkil who will promptly wash hands off Afghan for another decade or so until next 9/11.

But the Talibans in TSP, who have a strong domestic as well as international agenda, will see that as victory and will push their agenda inside TSP - impose purity now that Afghan has been re-conquered. Afghan will be their strategic depth, not the regimes :D ...TSPA/ISI will not be able to control them that well. The only time Pakistani Talibans will consider the regime their own is when they are running it or it dances to their tunes, not the other way around. How can the regime explain to its own people that what is good for Afghan is bad for them, as terrorist jihadi pig Kayani tried to spin the other day?

Secondly, once hands are washed with Lifebuoy, Unkil has no further incentive to get involved in the region or fund TSPA. Remember, there is no oil here, only fanatic barbarianism and terrorist animals. If there is a strike against them, they will just unleash bombs remotely ala Libya or Sudan and not put feet in ground.

India has anyway been target of TSP whether ruled by civilians, mullahs, Taliban, military makes no difference. We can also continue to arm, fund anti-Taliban forces, once again adopting death by hundred cut policy on Taliban and TsP at our choice.

As fanatic barbarianism increases in TSP, its breakup gets accelerated. We can wait for that day, keeping farcical talks going to please the 'international community' but not yielding an inch.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

SSridhar

You are right in concluding that TSPA would adapt to the new reality, i.e. to keep control of the pliable jihadis/Taliban and let loose of the others.

However, there is one problem and a really big one at that.

History has shown that anyone who comes into close contact with the jihadi mindset gets affected by that virus instead of getting in control of it.

Think about people like Mahmood Ahmed, Javed Nasir etc. For every whisky sipping Gen. Kayani at the top, TSPA needs people like Mahmood Ahmed or Nadeem Taj to be the points of contact with the jihadi element. But these points of contact themselves become jihadi before you know it.

That is why no matter how hard TSPA/ISI tries, the very act of Taliban regaining control over an area will GUARANTEE that Al Qaeda types will establish base there and soon start recruiting, plotting attacks.

This is like a kid playing with fire to scare off other kids. The nature of a burning flame is to be unpredictable and the only sure way of controlling it is to extinguish it. But the kid will never want to put it out and always end up burning himself or getting into big trouble.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by RayC »

I don't know if this has been posted.

Pakistan Day Parade cancelled
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Suppiah »

Rangudu look like our posts crossed - or great minds think alike :lol:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

R-man,

London conference was a super win for TSP; not because of what they got, but because of what India did not get. US/UK basically told India to shove it in Afganisthan. Even Karzai, as much as he like India, was weak and ineffectual and even scared to make a pitch for India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Chandragupta »

Why would Karzai risk his head for a country that will run away at the slightest hint of Unkil's frowning?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Suppiah wrote:
Secondly, once hands are washed with Lifebuoy, Unkil has no further incentive to get involved in the region or fund TSPA. Remember, there is no oil here, only fanatic barbarianism and terrorist animals. If there is a strike against them, they will just unleash bombs remotely ala Libya or Sudan and not put feet in ground.
How can you say this? TSP prides itself for its geographic location and the gateway to oil-rich central asian states; somthing that the west salivates over.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by symontk »

Even though US might pull out of Afghanistan, they will remain in Pakistan due to various other priorities. (controlling India / China / Afghan) Also the drone strikes will continue since US still retain airbases in Pakistan.

I dont think it will change anything for India on the response it can give to Pakistan after another 26/11. Also India will lose control over its influence in Afghanistan. Only hope for India is that Pakistan taliban (Punjabi Taliban) asserts like the Afghan taliban and takes control of Pakistan just like how its counterpart did it in Afghanistan.

In that scenario, US will pull out of Pakistan at a later stage and would require Indian bases for the same efforts to continue. That is the reason there is a new push for mutual co-operative defence agreements with India. Whether it is good for India or not, only time will tell. My take is that India should not accept it.

In any case US has option of going to Yemen / Oman.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Given both Indias abject weak response to 26/11 and its inability to get any say in Afganisthan, one wonders if it is India or TSP that is the regions military power :-). TSP is feared both by Indians and Afghans; that is some achievement by a basketcase terrorist country.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

CRamS wrote:R-man,

London conference was a super win for TSP; not because of what they got, but because of what India did not get. US/UK basically told India to shove it in Afganisthan. Even Karzai, as much as he like India, was weak and ineffectual and even scared to make a pitch for India.
Nope, that's a superficial read on the conference. It is Karzai who said "shove it" to anyone that disagreed with him and brought in the idea that even Mullah Omar can be negotiated with.

What US and UK were saying to India is that they are forced to back up Karzai and seriously show that they are willing to talk to "moderate" Taliban, while there is total division even within their governments on what that means. What they also told India is that they cannot underwrite India's investments in Southern Afghanistan.

Russia was not prepared and followed along to not publicly breach consensus but immediately afterward they reached out to India and Iran to prepare for pre-9/11 type back up options.

You need to be more nuanced than to revert to 0 or 1 type readings.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by shiv »

Rangudu wrote:
Russia was not prepared and followed along to not publicly breach consensus but immediately afterward they reached out to India and Iran to prepare for pre-9/11 type back up options.

You need to be more nuanced than to revert to 0 or 1 type readings.
But whichever way you look at it - Pakistan+US on one side and Russia, Iran and India on the other side is a reversion to the old cold war equations isn't it?

If you consider India as a weak/soft player, you can expect the US to ratchet up its opposition to Russia (via Pakistan) if Russia meddles in Afghanistan. Pakistan is the US's trump card in the region and that is why the US is unwilling to give up Pakistan. And the Pakis know it. They were scared only so long as they worried that the US may attack them or permit an attack on them without covering for them. Once the US gives the necessary guarantees to serve as a spoke in the wheel of any attacker on Pakistan, it is CENTO once again.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Rangudu »

shiv,

Not really. Russia and US this time share a fundamental common interest, no Sunni jihadis in Afghanistan.

Where exactly Americans are is still the big open question.

TSP has put its cards on the table but my read from the real cunning RAPE types is that they are shit scared that this move was made too early.

US has just started a 18-month war machine that will be near impossible to stop prematurely. This means that a part of TSP's favorite proxies will have to be sacrificed or will have to cut and run from Southern Afghanistan. And while Unkil may tolerate the Quetta Shura temporarily relocating to Karachi under ISI supervision, Unkil will not allow any shenanigans in the border areas.

So basically TSPA has committed to deliver an Al Qaeda free version of Mullah Omar, while also having zero freedom to hide people in FATA and even in Balochistan for over a year. In addition, Unkil wants Haqqani as the price for TSPA's shielding of Omar. On top of all this, TSPA needs no more close shaves for 2 years, let alone another attack in the West.

BTW, Russia just signaled to NATO that it will enable a rail route for vehicles in addition to the current non-lethal supplies, indicating that it too wants the Taliban weakened in the next 18-months.

As I noted earlier, Afghanistan is more of a curse than a prize. You can easily be a spoiler but the moment you own it, you are cursed to face the worst from everyone that is left out. The 1990s were kind of an exception because no one gave a crap about the region, but today even if US wants to reduce troops, it will always have to care about Afghanistan and will always maintain a presence to deliver punishment in short notice.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by symontk »

Yes Shiv. its back to cold war but with a critical difference.

Its the Taliban who is in the driver's seat and not Pakistan, IMO. I expect Taliban to take control of Pakistan within 5 - 10 years.

US can only watch its ally going down as it saw in Vietnam. It would be uncermoniouslty kicked out of Pakistan by Taliban.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by CRamS »

The good this, the bad that, is getting so confusing; Maacho Stanely boy & co who are preparing for a major bash in Helmad. This will be against the 'bad Taliban' I assume? What is the relationship between those bad Talibunnies and TSP? Is TSP willingly sacrifcing them, or they have no choice but to go along?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Malayappan »

The good, the bad, and the ugly by KS in IE
The last paragraph -
The most important issue for India today is not the purchasing campaign for the pseudo-Taliban, but how to deal with the likely Pakistani provocation to trigger an Indo-Pakistan war in order to dodge action against the jihadis. The recent US travel advisories are indications of this rising risk. On this it is to be hoped that consultations at the highest levels, along with follow-up collaborative action at security services levels with US are taking place without publicity. Unfortunately in India, emotional conclusions based on past memories tend to override sober and sound assessments based on careful analysis of current facts carried out by professional intelligence specialists
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by negi »

Waiting for Maulana Zaid's take on this :mrgreen:

Pakistan Day Parade cancelled due to security concerns
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

Malayappan wrote:The good, the bad, and the ugly by KS in IE
The last paragraph -
On this it is to be hoped that consultations at the highest levels, along with follow-up collaborative action at security services levels with US are taking place without publicity. Unfortunately in India, emotional conclusions based on past memories tend to override sober and sound assessments based on careful analysis of current facts carried out by professional intelligence specialists
KS has access to such information about 'talks taking place without publicity' etc. Poor others just go by 'past memories' and so they cannot be faulted for what appears as 'careless analysis' to him. IMO, it is such analysis that keep some kind of pressure on the government run by dhimmis so that they don't concede too much.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

CRamS wrote:What is the relationship between those bad Talibunnies and TSP? Is TSP willingly sacrifcing them, or they have no choice but to go along?
The 'bad Taliban' exist as two disparate groups; one, is 'bad Afghan Taliban' and the other is 'bad Pakistani Taliban'. The 'bad Afghan Taliban' are bad for the Americans because they attack the Americans. They are not bad for the Pakistanis and that was why they have been protected well within Pakistan for so long. The 'bad Pakistani Taliban' are bad for the Pakistanis and the Americans because they attack both of them. The Americans encouraged the Pakistanis to attack the 'bad Pakistani Taliban' so that to some extent American losses would be minimized. The Pakistanis dodged this, signed 'peace deals', mounted fake attacks and some times real attacks too. The 'bad Pakistani Taliban' bloodied the Pakistanis in return. Pakistan has still not given up on 'bad Pakistani Taliban' as is evidenced by the haste with which Kayani & his Peshawar Corps Commander praised them last year after 26/11. However, this nomenclature of 'bad Pakistani Taliban' does not include the home-grown Punjab-based jihadi tanzeems even though they are partly embedded with them. The trouble is that there is no clear-cut division of 'good' and 'bad' Taliban among themselves. These are labels conveniently thrown around by interested parties.

As far as sacrificing the 'bad Pakistani Taliban' go, what are a few lives in the greater cause ? I seriously believe that except for some leaders of the 'bad Pakistani Taliban', the foot soldiers have been well preserved by the PA. The dead in the operations of the various Rah-e-Haq, Rah-e-Raast & Rah-e-Nijaat have been poor villagers, who were claimed as Taliban combatants killed by the brave PA. It is my belief that the PA is following the same tactic that the 'bad Pakistani Taliban' followed against unwilling jirga elders. They were killed so that the listless clans will have no option but to obey the Taliban diktat.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Philip »

With the no-so-secret Afghan offensive in the south about to take off soon,one can expect the pakis are getting their loincloths in a twist as to how to save their offspring from danger.One can look forward to a series of terror attacks in India when the offensive begins.The GOI cannot forever remain impotent,as the clamour against its impotence keeps rising and any military posturing by India (it may be another Parakram-all sound and no fury,ideal for Dr.Singh's warfare concepts),will be taken by Pak as a heaven sent opportunity to relocate troops.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by anirban_aim »

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/pak_didn ... eshila.php
"India, which talked about breaking their relationship with us, which talked about turning their back on us, two days ago has approached us and said that we want to sit and talk to you, we want to resume our relationship with you. Pakistan did not kneel. Pakistan held its ground. And I will also say this, God willing, we will talk to them and present our case because our case is strong, it is not weak. Whether it be Kashmir or water or any other issue," said Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.
So much for the damned "Aman ki Aasha" and the candle lighters. :evil: :evil:

I hate these traitors so much. No body is going to take us seriously if we go on talking about taking a tough stand and then meekly come around talking to these MOFOS. Whats there to talk anyways :evil: :evil:

I fail to understand why would our beloved leaders keep on esposing gyan like "We have shared destinies...." and " India's prosperity lies in a stable and vibrant Pakistan...."

WHy cant these people see the writing on the wall and realize that if Pakistan drops its enemity towards India a question would be raised on its Raison-de-etre?

In an institution starved TSP (the only ones being the GHQ & ISI) the only thing that keeps it going is anti India rheoteric and it will never cease.

India's security lies in a continuosly unstable and tottering Pakistan fighting for survival as an entity, on the edge without actually going over. So that they spend all their energies in keeping their time and little money in keeping their country together.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by kenop »

US has never propped up India: Gates
Apparently this is from his interaction with the media during recent visit to the Pureland.
United States has dismissed Pakistani perceptions that it was propping India, saying that New Delhi "did not need us for that purpose" and has advocated that the two neighbours resolve their differences bilaterally.
After Hillory's direct references to their having spent billions this one is what-we-don't-do-to-the-Kufr-country
He also went on to suggest handling mutual suspicions using back channels.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Aditya_V »

You guys can go on crying refusing to see the simple truth, there is an element in our media and our elite which represent foreign interests, irrespective if it is against Indian interests. Unless you realise this, it will crate more and more heartburn only.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Gerard »

anupmisra wrote:Taliban claim their IEDs are undetectable
Michael Yon: New IED’s In Afghanistan Only Use Liquids And Non-Metal Parts.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by anirban_aim »

Aditya_V wrote:You guys can go on crying refusing to see the simple truth, there is an element in our media and our elite which represent foreign interests, irrespective if it is against Indian interests. Unless you realise this, it will crate more and more heartburn only.
OK. I'm ready to walk with you down the road on this. Lets say that some people (shall I say "plants") in our Media and Body Politic are working at the behest of "Others". Then the question would be whose?? and why?? :-?

One reason that comes to mind, off the cuff is - Money and rewards in kind. And one party that would like this subversion to happen are the Amir Khans. :-?

There could be others, but what will be intresting is that if we can get some evidence in this direct atleast circumstantial. But that seems hard to come by :( or am I just a newbie :wink:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by SSridhar »

Gilani accepting that Pakistan is biting more than it can chew
He said that Pakistan is playing greater role than assigned to it for the world peace and regional stability.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by shiv »

Malayappan wrote:The good, the bad, and the ugly by KS in IE
Well R man says much of the same stuff above - very interesting. I have learned some nuances today...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by Hari Seldon »

Pratap Chatterjee, Destabilizing Pakistan

Highly entertaining read, janta. Lotsa quotable quotes and all. Not sure if the gurus and garus will find anything terribly new except perhaps, a new perspective. Well recommended, IMHO.

Thoda sample chakho mamu...
Almost every day, reports come back from the CIA’s “secret” battlefield in the Pakistani tribal borderlands. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles -- that is, pilot-less drones -- shoot missiles (18 of themin a single attack on a tiny village last week) or drop bombs and then the news comes in: a certain number of al-Qaeda or Taliban leaders or suspected Arab or Uzbek or Afghan “militants”have died. The numbers are often remarkably precise. Sometimes they are attributed to U.S. sources, sometimes to the Pakistanis; sometimes, it’s hard to tell where the information comes from. In the Pakistani press, on the other hand, the numbers that come back are usually of civilian dead. They, too, tend to be precise.

Don’t let that precision fool you. Here’s the reality:
Then, there’s history. In the present drone wars, as in the CIA’s bloody Phoenix Program in the Vietnam era, the Agency’s operatives, working in distinctly alien terrain, must rely on local sources (or possibly official Pakistani ones) for targeting intelligence. In Vietnam in the 1960s, the Agency’s Phoenix Program -- reportedly responsible for the assassination of 20,000 Vietnamese -- became, according to historian Marilyn Young, “an extortionist’s paradise, with payoffs as available for denunciation as for protection.”

{OMG. Didn't know this. No wonder the cold warriors for freedom and democracy happily condoned and covered for the butchers of millions killed in BD in 1971}

Once again, the CIA is reportedly passing out bags of money and anyone on the ground with a grudge, or the desire to eliminate an enemy, or simply the desire to make some of that money can undoubtedly feed information into the system, watch the drones do their damnedest, and then report back that more “terrorists” are dead. Just assume that at least some of those “militants” dying in Pakistan, and possibly many of them, aren’t who the CIA hopes they are.
Then there's this even more bizarre read....
Could Pakistan 2010 Go the Way of Cambodia 1969?

And moi, slouching in my chair, look up interested. Hmmmm. Could it be? Heck, could it be? Pakiban as a resurrected khmer rogue? Could it be?
A more provocative -- and perhaps more ominous -- analogy today might be between the CIA’s escalating drone war in the contemporary Pakistani tribal borderlands and Richard Nixon’s secret bombing campaign against the Cambodian equivalent. To briefly recapitulate that ancient history: In the late 1960s, Cambodia was ruled by a “neutralist” king, Norodom Sihanouk, leading a weak government that had little relevance to its poor and barely educated citizens. In its borderlands, largely beyond its control, the North Vietnamese and Vietcong found “sanctuaries.”

Sihanouk, helpless to do anything, looked the other way. In the meantime, sheltered by local villagers in distant areas of rural Cambodia was a small insurgent group, little-known communist fundamentalists who called themselves the Khmer Rouge. (Think of them as the 1970s equivalent of the Pakistani Taliban who have settled into the wild borderlands of that country largely beyond the control of the Pakistani government.) They were then weak and incapable of challenging Sihanouk -- until, that is, those secret bombing raids by American B-52s began. As these intensified in the summer of 1969, areas of the country began to destabilize (helped on in 1970 by a U.S.-encouraged military coup in the capital Phnom Penh), and the Khmer Rouge began to gain strength.

You know the grim end of that old story.
What happens next is the $64 million question. Most Pakistani experts dismiss any suggestion that the Taliban has widespread support in their country, but it must be remembered that the Khmer Rouge was a fringe group with no more than 4,000 fighters at the time that Operation Breakfast began.
And if Cambodia's history is any guide to the future, the drone strikes do not have to create a groundswell for revolution. They only have to begin to destabilize Pakistan as would, for instance, the threatened spread of such strikes into the already unsettled province of Baluchistan, or any future American ground incursions into the country. A few charismatic intellectuals like Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot always have the possibility of taking it from there, rallying angry and unemployed youth to create an infrastructure for disruptive change.
^Hajaar unlikely, I must say.
Like the Khmer Rouge before them, these new jihadists display no remorse for killing innocent civilians.
Even King Sihanouk, who had once ordered raids against the Khmer Rouge, eventually agreed to support them after he had been overthrown in a coup and was living in exile in China. Could the same thing happen to Pakistani politicians if they fall from grace and U.S. backing?
Pakistan 2010, with its enormous modern military and industrialized base, is hardly impoverished Cambodia 1969. Nonetheless, in that now ancient history lies both a potential analogy and a cautionary tale. Beware secret air wars that promise success and yet wreak havoc in lands that are not even enemy nations.
Re bolded part above, very astute. Independent Pakhtunkhwa is no enemy nation w.r.t US or Yindia. Pakjab is, for both.

Read it all.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

Post by RamaP »

Irrespective of what many analysts might say, America is going to remain in Afghanistan for a very long time to come. The reason is the proximity of Afghanistan to the Central Asian region that is full of natural gas reserves. Many people compare the current Afghan war to the one fought by the Soviets. However, there are many differences between the Soviet and the American campaign.Although the Soviets had more boots on the ground in Afghanistan, they were not able to win because the Soviets never attacked Mujahideen's supply lines in Pakistan and also the Mujahideen were tiring the Soviets in an asymmetric warfare. In case of the Americans, their drones are unleashing hell in TSP. If we believe the speculations, even the Blackwater/Xe guys are wrecking havoc in TSP.

Another factor that must be weighed in is the rise of China and its strategic needs. If the Americans leave the Afghan-Pak theater, then it will be a matter of time before China steps into this vacuum and eventually bring the entire Central Asian region in its sphere of influence. Despite the dreams of grandeur that TSP might have about its role in Afghanistan post 2011, one thing is clear, this time there are little chances of 1991 style American cut and run from Afghanistan. There is little to hope from GoI about taking a strong stance against TSP forever. Whether it is a lack of political will or some Chanakian strategy of talking and indulging in covert ops simultaneously, all that GoI hopes is the accelerated fragmentation of TSP and controlling the terror emanating from TSP as much as possible.
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