Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

[csharma]

Hamid Gul and Mushahid Hussain waxing eloquent on how Pakistan is triumphant in Afganhistan now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYWeBMG6phs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk4K6X12PdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKh99yMjhYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpkt0jmaRE

For those of us who are Urdu challenged, especially the TSP dialect, could you kindly summarize the juicy, delusional tit-bits?

Following is the summary. Btw, not all of them are delusions. India has to watch US is going to give to Pakistan to get Taliban to the negotiating table.

1) HG says that US has lost in Afghanistan and both US and India will have to leave Afghanistan. This is partly true. Us has not been able to crush the Taliban. HG believes Taliban will be back in power in kabul.
2) MH says the geopolitical situation is very favorable for them now since US needs them in Af-Pak. China is on ascendant and is now part of G2 and Pakistan is a friend of China. For US, China is first, Pak is second and India is third. That's why India is "mayoos" with the Obama administration.
3) MH wants Pakistan to talk to India but HG thinks India has no role because Taliban does not like India. HG is very happy that Turkey did not invite India in the meeting of Afghanistan and in the London conference nobody gave importance to India and they were seated in the third row.
4) If Pakistan plays its card well, it will come out ahead.

It is interesting to see the ambitions of a country whose total budget (09-10) was 29 billion dollars. India's defence budget was in excess of 30 billion dollars and the national outlay in excess of 200 billion dollars. We know the trajectories of the two economies.

But these guys at the slighest whiff of a victory, start getting visions of victory over India.

[svinayak]

Zakaria maybe overly optimistic when he says "In most Muslim nations, mainstream rulers have stabilized their regimes and their societies, and extremists have been isolated."
He avoids mention of how USA created this monster called Osama by working with him originally in Afghanistan in the name of containing Russia.
This tango of PA/ISI coming up with stores about Pakistan in danger looks like a game which is played by both sides.

The Jihad Against the Jihadis
How moderate Muslim leaders waged war on extremists—and won.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233607

By Fareed Zakaria | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 12, 2010
From the magazine issue dated Feb 22, 2010

September 11, 2001, was gruesome enough on its own terms, but for many of us, the real fear was of what might follow. Not only had Al Qaeda shown it was capable of sophisticated and ruthless attacks, but a far greater concern was that the group had or could establish a powerful hold on the hearts and minds of Muslims. And if Muslims sympathized with Al Qaeda's cause, we were in for a herculean struggle. There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims living in more than 150 countries across the world. If jihadist ideology became attractive to a significant part of this population, the West faced a clash of civilizations without end, one marked by blood and tears.

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These fears were well founded. The 9/11 attacks opened the curtain on a world of radical and violent Islam that had been festering in the Arab lands and had been exported across the globe, from London to Jakarta. Polls all over the Muslim world revealed deep anger against America and the West and a surprising degree of support for Osama bin Laden. Governments in most of these countries were ambivalent about this phenomenon, assuming that the Islamists' wrath would focus on the United States and not themselves. Large, important countries like Saudi Arabia and Indonesia seemed vulnerable.

More than eight eventful years have passed, but in some ways it still feels like 2001. Republicans have clearly decided that fanning the public's fears of rampant jihadism continues to be a winning strategy. Commentators furnish examples of backwardness and brutality from various parts of the Muslim world—and there are many—to highlight the grave threat we face.

But, in fact, the entire terrain of the war on terror has evolved dramatically. Put simply, the moderates are fighting back and the tide is turning. We no longer fear the possibility of a major country succumbing to jihadist ideology. In most Muslim nations, mainstream rulers have stabilized their regimes and their societies, and extremists have been isolated. This has not led to the flowering of Jeffersonian democracy or liberalism. But modern, somewhat secular forces are clearly in control and widely supported across the Muslim world. Polls, elections, and in-depth studies all confirm this trend.

[A_Gupta]

The Yindu-Yehudi conspiracy has a genetic component.

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_66/267 ... 677603.pdf

Haplogroup R2 is mainly (but not only) an Indian one. In this study I have
suggested how it has gotten into the Jews and when.....

Here is a plausible story of the Jewish haplotypes of R2 haplogroup. Its ancestral
haplotype
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-11-14-10-29
shown here in the 12-marker format, is about 4,200 years old, that corresponds to
the age of this haplotype in India (sere above). This haplotype had arrived to
Europe apparently with the Gypsies, in the Medieval times, some 800 years BP,
and got into the Jewish community. About 30-40% of the present day Jews,
bearers of R2 haplogroup, are direct descendant of those Gypsies, or the Indians,
on that matter. Approximately 650 years ago, apparently during the Black Plague
times, in the 14th century, a bearer of this haplogroup, albeit in the mutated form
had survived and fled to the Eastern Europe. This was a bottleneck for this
particular haplotype. Close to half of present day Jews are descendants of that
individual.

PS: I suspect this is the work of a crank. Nevertheless, it is highly amusing.

[brihaspati]

For the ruling elite whom MH and HG represent, the general downward spiral of "growth" of POWI does not really matter. For them, their personal prosperity, hold on power, is what matters. We cannot deny or delude ourselves from the fact that as far as the elite regimes of POWI are concerned, they have been able to survive and extract benefits from the world far in excess of their net productive worth. It is quite legitimate for them to continue to hope that they will be able to go on extracting Jazyia from the world. In reality they will.

India with its far greater potential, economic strength, and productive capacity - was not able to resist destruction of its economy, science and society when the Islamists first started their move. Neither could it prevent carving out an exclusive base for Islamists across the political border in the west, and east -as well as protection of a base inside from which future Islamists like SIMI or the Ulema council could raise its head.

I don't see entirely madness in their calculations. Over the medium term, what they say is actually going to be the most likely outcome.

[A_Gupta]

Hamid Gul and Mushahid Hussain waxing eloquent on how Pakistan is triumphant in Afganhistan now.

HG insists that the US has already lost in Marjah.

The interviewer actually asked a good question at one point. Namely, after the Soviets left, the parties involved started cutting each others' throats, why will it be different this time? (The answer is supposedly, they've all learned their lesson).

PS:

MH wants Pakistan to talk to India...

MH is worried that Turkey, China, Iran will invite India, so Pakistan needs to talk to India to neutralize it. Both MH and HG think that US influence will go to zero.

PPS:
I don't agree with Brihaspati's gloomy assessment. Comparing India of 1000 AD and India of 2000 AD relative to the Islamists is not a useful exercise -- too much is different for there to be any basis for comparison.

[Prem]

India with its far greater potential, economic strength, and productive capacity - was not able to resist destruction of its economy, science and society when the Islamists first started their move. Neither could it prevent carving out an exclusive base for Islamists across the political border in the west, and east -as well as protection of a base inside from which future Islamists like SIMI or the Ulema council could raise its head.
I don't see entirely madness in their calculations. Over the medium term, what they say is actually going to be the most likely outcome.

Bsir ji,
if India continue to practice PSism, it will fall again as it is slowly eroding our strength to set thing right for future course. But India do have one good trump card which Paki and the 3.5 Auliyas are not aware of and even GOI/PSs are afraid of and it can change the game within short time period.

[asprinzl]

A couple of weeks ago, my gf flew into town. We were out in Astoria when out of the blue she pulls me close to her and says…you are Indian and I want you to take me to an Indian restaurant. It was about noon and the fastest thing that popped in my head was Jackson Dinners. Being of Norweigian extraction, she never had Indian food and by the time we finished, her tongue was steaming heat due to the spice.

Preety soon, we were at the grocery store next door trying to buy anything that could sooth her spicy dilemma. As we were checking out, I gave the elderly man bagging our goods a ten dollar tip. Though my gf thought I should have tipped him more, this man almost reached my knees with his hand in gesture of gratitude.

This is the trouble with many Indians. This subservient-ness is so much part of the Indian culture and I see this plenty. A Bollywood star comes by and people fall to his feet as if he is god. A minister comes along and people want him to pick a name for their new born child. Somebody gives ten dollars and one thinks that the giver is so high above him/her self that the giver need to be looked upon as god or king. This slavish mentality must go. Otherise, the DIE will forever make the masses be enthralled by them and the DIE will forever be in charge.

The way I see it, the masses put their hope first in the hands of some deity in the world beyond and after that in the hands of the national leaders. There is no self empowerment. This is so pervasive to the point that on the national level, there is hope that somehow America will help put an end to Paki perfidy or that somehow some element will help find a solution. Or there is always the hope that somebody else will do the dirty job. No, this is not going to happen. Indians alone have to make things happen.

Somebody else cannot eat to satiate your hunger.

To drive a wedge between the Rape and the abdul, the abdul must be daily bombarded with messages, propaganda and news about the perfidy of the Rape. You cannot do that with print media. The distribution of it can be curtailed by the Rape network. You will have limited success with the internet because the limited internet availability. You can produce cds and dvds and send them across but its distribution will be limited just as the print media. The only was I see possible is by radio waves.

I have been witnessing a monkey called Zakir Naik spewing his bile with impunity through his radio and tv networks. How is it possible that this monkey is able to finance such an enterprise? I am sure he gets some money from the sheikhs in the gulf but it is said that most of his money comes from the contributions of the regular abduls in India.

Now, I am thinking. How many million IM are there in India and how many Hindus are there in India? If ZN can operate a very successful and flourishing propaganda empire by mostly depending on the contribution of the IM, how much bigger and more such entities can be run by the much larger and wealthier Hindus?

The trouble though is that I feel every Hindu or nationalist minded Desi is thinking….I have family, my wife is pregnant, I have elderly parents, my kids are still young etc etc and I hope the dude next to me will do the needful thing. When everyone thinks like this, nothing will ever get done. There is a need for more Rahul Mehta types.

Avram

[Guddu]

Quotable from the unmentionable site

" do not understand why Saudis giving so much respect and hospitality to Bhindis primeminister ?

Usually when the Pakistani president visits Saudi a low level minister welcomes him , but when the priminister of Bhindia goes to Saudi Kings brother came to welcome him ...

RIYADH: Setting aside protocol, King Abdullah's brother and defence minister Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz and the entire Saudi cabinet on Saturday received Prime Minister Manmohan Singh when he arrived in Riyadh on a three- day visit.

Singh, who was accorded a red carpet welcome, was received by Abdulaziz, also the first deputy Prime Minister and civil aviation minister, at the King Khalid International "

[vijayk]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 625409.cms
ISI hand in Taliban's Kabul attack?

While India may not want to straightaway point a finger at Pakistan for Friday's Kabul attacks, which came a day after the resumption of dialogue between the two countries, there are indications that the suicide attacks could have been carried out at the behest of Pakistan's ISI.

What? Oh no! How terrible? Are these people not aware of Aman Ki Asha campaign by all right thinking Indians.

The attack on a hotel used by Indians also came as the new US led surge saw the Afghan flag being planted in Marjah where the troops have wrested aTaliban stronghold. It is seen as part of the Taliban desire to show that they can strike anywhere in the heart of Kabul but also meshes with ISI's objective to "evict" Indian presence from Afghanistan.

[RamaY]

Now, I am thinking. How many million IM are there in India and how many Hindus are there in India? If ZN can operate a very successful and flourishing propaganda empire by mostly depending on the contribution of the IM, how much bigger and more such entities can be run by the much larger and wealthier Hindus?

The trouble though is that I feel every Hindu or nationalist minded Desi is thinking….I have family, my wife is pregnant, I have elderly parents, my kids are still young etc etc and I hope the dude next to me will do the needful thing. When everyone thinks like this, nothing will ever get done. There is a need for more Rahul Mehta types.

Avram

Avram ji

The problem is that any Hindu/Indic centric talk show or radio station will be viewed as a threat to [sic] secularism and will be banned. That is the state of affairs now.

But we need not be pessimistic. Everything will come at the right time.

[Prem]

Quotable from the unmentionable site
" do not understand why Saudis giving so much respect and hospitality to Bhindis primeminister ?
Usually when the Pakistani president visits Saudi a low level minister welcomes him , but when the priminister of Bhindia goes to Saudi Kings brother came to welcome him ...
"

Paki Fuddus dont understand the difference between respect accorded to equals and the treatment given to slaves,naukars and low ranks.
It is the same reason theese paki Ajalfs cant comprehend their former ruler Shaukat Aziz is appointed a clerk in LN Mittal's office.

[brihaspati]

A_Gupta wrote
PPS:
I don't agree with Brihaspati's gloomy assessment. Comparing India of 1000 AD and India of 2000 AD relative to the Islamists is not a useful exercise -- too much is different for there to be any basis for comparison.

Just to humbly clarify, I also pointed out the fact of Partition and its results - leading to current merry dance by Islamist parties inside India. Moreover, I did not add to any "gloomy predictions". I simply siad that MH+HG can legitimately expect their projections to come true. India cannot do much about it if it continues its apparent mindset that distorts the driving factors and hence puts up the wrong solutions. In that scenario, HG+MH's expectations about mid-term success of their power projections for POWI can very well turn out to be true.

I also have repeatedly said, that I do not consider such outcomes entirely "gloomy" for India. It provides opportunities to set the right course, eliminate internal obstacles in the way of solving the "POWI" problem, and can become the ultimate unravelling of the entire Islamist and allied western designs on the subcontinent. I, in fact, welcome HG+MH's projections. The quicker the better to ultimately erase them completely.

[A_Gupta]

I simply siad that MH+HG can legitimately expect their projections to come true.

That counts as gloomy by my estimation But I don't think MH+HG have anything right. As a simple example, they think Obama's date for withdrawal from Afghanistan is a firm date. It is anything but. Let's put it this way - the far simpler task of closing Guantanamo - is behind schedule; and that was a far firmer promise Obama made his base than anything about Afghanistan. I doubt HG would have predicted (Feb 21 when that program aired) that various Taliban leaders would be arrested in the next few days. Then there is HG's insistence (Feb 21 again) that the US already has lost in Marjah. Very little of what they're saying has any connection with reality.

[vijayk]

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... t-the-plot

Salman Bashir came to Delhi for two sets of talks, not one. The Government of India was the second half of his agenda. The first, and from his perspective the more important, part was the resumption of dialogue between Islamabad and secessionist elements in Jammu and Kashmir, Hurriyat leaders and the more extreme Syed Ali Shah Geelani.
Bashir did not want to talk to Omar or Farooq Abdullah, Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, Mehbooba Mufti or Ghulam Nabi Azad, who represent parties that have won a substantial number of seats in the assembly. He wanted to hear what Geelani said, that there was a storm brewing in the Valley. Bashir reassured Geelani that Pakistan had not abandoned its dream of altering the map of India.

These pre-arranged meetings were held with the consent of the Government of India. If the Indian government had wanted to prevent them, Hurriyat leaders and Geelani would not have been able to catch the flight from Srinagar to Delhi. Precedence — the fact that we have enabled such meetings before — is not the point.

If that was going to be our focus, if that was the agenda we had set, why did we permit the meetings between Pakistan and Hurriyat-Geelani? We could have explained that Pakistan could talk to the Kashmiri leaders on the Indian soil the next time around, if there was a next time; on February 25, it would only be about terrorism.

There is insufficient recognition, certainly among Indians and possibly within the Indian government, of the fact that Pakistan’s policy has hardened after the Mumbai terrorist onslaught, rather than softened. Pervez Musharraf’s “close-to-a-solution” is now denied as mere waffle, since nothing was put in writing.
Mumbai is not cause for mea culpa, but reason for accusation: India deserves what it got because it holds Kashmir “illegally”. In such a narrative, Hafiz Saeed becomes the daring maverick who brought Kashmir back to the centrestage as the “core” issue (a term Salman Bashir used repeatedly, as was his brief).
India and Pakistan might agree, therefore, that terrorism is an evil, but they have totally divergent definitions of who constitutes a terrorist. Salman Bashir can agree on terrorism without blinking an eyelid, and moan about thousands dead in his own country — but they died from Taliban bullets and bombs, not from a Hafiz Saeed gun. India’s terrorist is Pakistan’s freedom fighter.
As Bashir coolly explained in Delhi, Hafiz Saeed was within his democratic rights when, at his Lahore rally, he told followers armed with Kalasnikovs that one Mumbai was not enough. The Pakistan army would have opened artillery fire if the Taliban had dared to hold a similar public meeting in Peshawar.

[Suppiah]

Zakaria maybe overly optimistic when he says "In most Muslim nations, mainstream rulers have stabilized their regimes and their societies, and extremists have been isolated."

He is right - they have isolated the extremists but by adopting part if not most of the extremists agenda as their own....look at Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt and so on...

[Suppiah]

This class uses religion to keep in line the 80 percent to 90 percent of the population (who are illiterate) so that these illiterate abduls will never threaten the Rapes' hold on the land and wealth. These abduls must be let loose and set upon the Rape class. The Rape class must be devoured beginning from the fringes.

The process of Abdul class finishing off the RAPE class is already happening, it is called the Taliban. We just have to make use of them, like America did by telling them they can purify TSP and have our blessings if they keep IM/Indians out of it at least in Phase I. Just wind down rhetoric against them a bit, after a grand bargain, is enough already...that will also pay other dividend such as kicking Unkil out of region, getting into good books of China/Russia/Iran (not for siding Taliban but for kicking obviously this has to be played carefully for it to work)etc. Nice way of paying back Unkil for going it alone and giving a s..t for what India thinks.

The only negative side is of course, the danger of disease spreading, but then if it is going to happen anyway, at least sit back and enjoy the dividends for a while...

Some covert action that keeps pot boiling is also another way..

[shiv]

Like I stated earlier I have been doing some new reading on the issue of land reforms and other reforms. The reading I did some years ago had credited land reforms in India as the reason for reducing rural poverty. But a lot of material nowadays seems to say that land reforms per se had only a small role in this and that the actual poverty reduction has come by other means. However this seems to be disputed and I'm no economist and my interest is Paquistaan.

I see two things as fallout from this information.
1) If land reforms are good - I do not want that to happen in Pakistan
2) If land reforms are not so good - I don't see them happening but other means may actually be useful to Paquis and I don't want anything good to happen soon.

I have the following beliefs. Despite our painting the mango Paki Abdul as a violent being I believe that he carries with him many "Indian" characteristics - one of them being docility and servility. Th mango Abdul Paki will serve his master for scraps thrown at him and attribute to fate and Allah's will the fact that he is fcued up. This is the same foot touching mentality that Avram mentioned.

In other words it takes a lot to make the mango Abdul rise up in revolt against his master. I believe the same was true in India and it took a Gandhi to read the piskology of Indians and Brits to make Indians revolt in a way that suited them.

I think there are certain preconditions that need to be created in society before a population of mango Abduls rise up in revolt against their masters who are using them for external campaigns

1) Extreme poverty and deprivation and human suffering
2) the death or killing of icons whom the mango Abduls see as revered.

I believe that although Mango Abdul admires Paqui Army- the death of an individual army officer such as Kiyani would not affect Abdul. I believe there has to be a targeted killing of "good and respectable" people in Pakistan. These include the likes of Edhi, respected lawyers, doctors, teachers, social workers, cricketers and other icons. Anger has to be generated in society that the leadership is unable to care for those whom people admire. An angry deprived society is most likely to rise up in revolt and give the RAPE something to mull about.

[A_Gupta]

Grist for Shiv's mill:
from 2007, but still relevant, asking Where is Pakistan's Revolution?

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=808

[SSridhar]

Ramana is as usual right. The idea of land reform is being touted as haraam in Pakistan even today. A mere 0.5% possess 37% of lands in Pakistan. It shows very clearly the West Pakistani mindset when we realize that East Pakistan abolished the zamindari system in c. 1950 itself while West Pakistan is yet to do so. All their PMs, Presidents, most ministers and judges hold huge tracts of land. About 5 or 6 years back, the Supreme Court announced that land reforms were against the Shariat.

[SSridhar]

Shiv, the 'landless revolting against the RAPE' is difficult, if not impossible. One problem, which I consider as major, is that the rural (and even most urban) population in Pakistan believe in some Pir or the other. These Pirs are the most oppressive figures who thoroughly exploit the landless directly and in collusion with the landowners. In most cases, the Pirs are themselves huge landowners. The Pakistanis have unshakeable faith in Pirs. The NWFP was yanked away from the hands of the Congress very quickly by letting loose the Pir of Manki Sharif in 1946. Unless this blind following of the masses with their Pirs is broken, the 'revolt' is impossible. However, all solutions such as encouraging the Taliban or the Hizb-ut-Tahrir or other salafist organizations will have other implications for us. We need to be careful on that.

[CRamS]

A couple of weeks ago, my gf flew into town. We were out in Astoria when out of the blue she pulls me close to her and says…you are Indian and I want you to take me to an Indian restaurant. It was about noon and the fastest thing that popped in my head was Jackson Dinners. Being of Norweigian extraction, she never had Indian food and by the time we finished, her tongue was steaming heat due to the spice.

Preety soon, we were at the grocery store next door trying to buy anything that could sooth her spicy dilemma. As we were checking out, I gave the elderly man bagging our goods a ten dollar tip. Though my gf thought I should have tipped him more, this man almost reached my knees with his hand in gesture of gratitude.

This is the trouble with many Indians. This subservient-ness is so much part of the Indian culture and I see this plenty. A Bollywood star comes by and people fall to his feet as if he is god. A minister comes along and people want him to pick a name for their new born child. Somebody gives ten dollars and one thinks that the giver is so high above him/her self that the giver need to be looked upon as god or king. This slavish mentality must go. Otherise, the DIE will forever make the masses be enthralled by them and the DIE will forever be in charge.

With all due respect, this kind of generalization is crap and perpetuates stereotypes. For all you know, he may have been genuinely greatful for being appreciated. Kind of like a blonde with full smile would say "thaaank you" even to us SDREs when offered a good tip.

I used to know a cop during my grad school days who had contempt for Jews: based on my conversations with him. One day I was having coffee with him at a Dunkin Donughts while he was off duty. An old Jewish guy came by and after he had his coffee, pocketed a huge stack of napkins. It was goddam cheap spectacle. This cop used that incident and was piling on Jews with gusto and went into a hateful rant using this incident as "proof" because in my earlier conversations, I dismissed his anti-Semitic rants as having no basis in reality. Sadly, you are falling into the same pitfall with your above anecdote.

[kenop]

What kind of role has KSA in the past played/proposed to play in "sorting our differences" between Indian and Pakistan?
I have no basis, but feel that something may be cooking to contribute towards the Nobil Piss Prije for MMS. Just can't shake it off.
All the usual suspects from the Pureland are there some time or the other. Maybe some back-channel blessed by some front-channel and benevolent benefectors of Pak.

[abhishek_sharma]

Frustrated Strivers in Pakistan Turn to Jihad

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/world ... youth.html

Umar Kundi was his parents’ pride, an ambitious young man from a small town who made it to medical school in the big city. It seemed like a story of working-class success, living proof in this unequal society that a telephone operator’s son could become a doctor.

But things went wrong along the way. On campus Mr. Kundi fell in with a hard-line Islamic group. His degree did not get him a job, and he drifted in the urban crush of young people looking for work. His early radicalization helped channel his ambitions in a grander, more sinister way.

Instead of healing the sick, Mr. Kundi went on to become one of Pakistan’s most accomplished militants. Working under a handler from Al Qaeda, he was part of a network that carried out some of the boldest attacks against the Pakistani state and its people last year, the police here say. Months of hunting him ended on Feb. 19, when he was killed in a shootout with the police at the age of 29.

Mr. Kundi and members of his circle — educated strivers who come from the lower middle class — are part of a new generation that has made militant networks in Pakistan more sophisticated and deadly. Al Qaeda has harnessed their aimless ambition and anger at Pakistan’s alliance with the United States, their generation’s most electrifying enemy.

“These are guys who use Google Maps to plan their attacks,” said a senior Punjab Province police official. “Their training is better than our national police academy.”

Like Mr. Kundi, many came of age in the 1990s, when jihad was state policy — aimed at challenging Indian control in Kashmir — and jihadi groups recruited openly in universities. Under the influence of Al Qaeda, their energies have been redirected and turned inward, against Pakistan’s own government and people.

...

When Mr. Kundi arrived at Punjab Medical College in the late 1990s, he chose a group with an Islamic focus, according to a classmate and friend, Muhammad, who asked that his last name not be used because he feared association with a militant. It was a typical choice for students from devout families, who want their sons to stay out of trouble in the city.

The group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, ran charities and prayer meetings. It also offered training for jihad in Kashmir. Lashkar’s blend of adventure and patriotism appealed to restless young men. It even had an office on campus: Room 12D.

...

Mr. Kundi threw himself into Lashkar’s activities, working summers at an eye clinic in Kashmir, his friend Muhammad said. He held Koran-reading sessions. He developed a close relationship with the group’s spiritual leader, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed. Mr. Kundi was a skilled recruiter, even winning over a secular classmate whose family lived in Canada.

...

Lashkar’s activities now seemed small, and embarrassingly pro-government. Mr. Kundi began to argue with Mr. Saeed, the group’s leader, picking fights with him in public about Lashkar’s mission. The United States, he argued, was killing Muslims, and Lashkar was doing nothing for them.

In a stinging insult, Muhammad recalled, Mr. Kundi began calling Mr. Saeed “the B team of the government,” a reference to the group’s not-so-secret connection to the state.

...

“Sheik Issa said the Pakistani Army has become the well-wisher of America,” stated a police interrogation report, citing a 29-year-old member of the network arrested last year. “It’s mandatory that we should give maximum losses to the agencies of Pakistan. This is also jihad.”

...

Their plans were ambitious. A computer memory stick found on a militant linked to Mr. Ahmed and killed last fall in a shootout with the police in the southern Punjab town of Dera Ghazi Khan contained plans to destroy bridges and railroads and to strike at the heart of the Pakistani state, its military. The language was in code: “Lentils” meant aluminum paste. “Wheat” was fertilizer.

“GHQ is an important task — do it immediately,” said the voice on the memory stick, referring to the military’s headquarters. “Don’t wait.”

...

The last time Muhammad saw Mr. Kundi they were sitting together on a bench outside Allied Hospital in Faisalabad. A scruffy old man walked by, hunched over a cane. The man’s death, Mr. Kundi said, would be unimportant. His own, in contrast, would have meaning.

But did it? Muhammad disapproved of Mr. Kundi’s choice, because it led to the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. But he understood it. Mr. Kundi wanted badly to be important. Now, in a way, he is.

“He applied his mind,” Muhammad said. “He took what society offered.”

[Prasad]

Quote:
Umar Kundi was his parents’ pride, an ambitious young man from a small town who made it to medical school in the big city. It seemed like a story of working-class success, living proof in this unequal society that a telephone operator’s son could become a doctor.

What do you expect from someone so-named!

[abhishek_sharma]

Country’s water reservoirs depleting fast

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -720-hh-03

The country’s reservoirs are left with water sufficient for only three days, with one of the two major dams reaching “dead level” due to low inflows and high outflows.

...

“The amount of water in store today (360,000 acre feet) is equivalent to about 190,000 cubic feet per second (cusecs). The Indus River System Authority (Irsa) is already supplying 83,500 cusecs from the reservoirs.

“This means that the water we have will last only three days,” the official said.

An Irsa official said the water stock position had deteriorated mainly because of low rainfall during winter. He, however, was of the opinion that the situation could soon improve, as rain had been forecast.

...

When compared to last year, the flows of water at Tarbela, Mangla and Nowshera (Kabul river) have declined by 26 per cent this year. The flow in the Chenab has also declined; it was only 10,000 cusecs at Marala headworks on Friday, as compared to 11,700 last year.

...

Currently, Irsa is supplying 42,000 cusecs to Punjab, 35,000 cusecs to Sindh, 4,000 cusecs to Balochistan and 2,500 cusecs to the NWFP.

...

[abhishek_sharma]

Most MNAs have more than one wife: Gabol

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... 620--bi-01

The Minister of State for Ports and Shipping, Nabil Gabol, stunned the National Assembly on Thursday when he claimed that 80 per cent members of the house had more than one wife.

He said: “It should be left for Ulema to issue a decree whether anyone can have more than one wife or not”.

Interestingly, he was responding to a statement of his own party’s former information minister, Sherry Rahman, who contended that a man was not allowed to enter into second wedlock without permission from his first wife.

The surprising aspect of Mr Gabol’s claim was that no member in a thinly attended house, including any of the ministers, chose to deny or confirm his assertion.

Maulana Abdul Malik, a member from Fata, however supported Mr Gabol’s stance on polygamy by reciting a verse from Holy Quran: “Faithful are allowed to wed twice, thrice or four times provided they can maintain justice between wives.”

Ms Sherry referred to a recent statement of PML-Q’s women MPA in the Punjab Assembly in which she claimed that a Muslim man can have more than one wife without getting permission from his first wife.

She expressed her concern over the silence of the Punjab government as well as the federal government over the issue.

...

[Jarita]

^^^ Simble way of getting permission from first wife
- Ask her - if she refuses
- Psygologically intimidate her, if she still refuses
- Beat the hell out of her, if she still refuses
- Pour acid over her face

Read "My feudal lord" for how RAPE treats their women despite education etc. Or if you are outside India, ask some RAPE females.

Very easy to get permission

[Airavat]

India, Northern Alliance, US are encircling Pakistan

Subtle shift in US policy is not because of change of heart but because of self serving expediency. Pakistan should therefore remain wary of American moves rather than feeling euphoric that it has regained trust and confidence of USA. Under no circumstances should Pakistan hand over recently nabbed Afghan Taliban leaders like Mullah Ghani Baradar, Maulvi Kabir, Mulla Abdul Salam and Mulla Mir Muhammad either to USA or to Afghanistan since it will bring back the memories of black deeds of Musharraf.

Ajmal Kasab being Pakistani national is in Indian captivity since November 2008 and has not been handed over to Pakistan. Why should Pakistan be in a hurry to hand over Afghan captives to Afghanistan ruled by US installed puppet regime whose days are numbered? After the withdrawal of foreign forces, if God forbid another bout of internecine war takes place in Afghanistan, it will not be among the Pashtuns but possibly between Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns in which the former would emerge victorious.

[SSridhar]

US denies Nuclear Deal & Nuclear Plant to Pakistan

The U.S. has told Pakistan that it will not get any atomic power plant or civilian nuclear deal, similar to the one it signed with India.

"The United States is working closely with Pakistan to help meet its growing needs. Nuclear power is not currently part of our discussions," a senior official told PTI.

Pakistan was informed of the decision recently. The official, preferring anonymity, said the U.S. also told Pakistan that there was no way it could get a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one the U.S. signed with India. The India-U.S. civilian nuclear deal was India-specific, and there was no thinking on in the administration to create a template for it.

Moreover, given the past experience that the U.S. had with Pakistan on the nuclear proliferation issue and the episode of Pakistani scientist A.Q. Khan allegedly transferring sensitive technologies abroad, both top American lawmakers and government officials had serious concerns about the safety of Pakistani nuclear weapons, he said.

[asprinzl]

Doc,
I too don't believe that land reform should happen if that is good for Pak Is Satan. But the mango abdul must be made to believe that all his troubles are due to his lack of land ownership and that his troubles will be over if he can forcefully take over the land of the Rape by own action or by collectively acting with several of his friends and relatives.

Ssridhar,
It will not happen overnight but the mango abdul must be constantly bombarded with the message. I have been inside mosques for Friday sermons in Israel, Sudan, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Morrocco, South Africa, Indonesia, Europe, US etc....the Mullah repeats the same thing over and over again, Friday after Friday to the point where the regulars can repeat what the Mullah is going to say. They know what the Mullah is going to say, yet they all go and sit on the floor and listen to him every Friday. This constant harranguing will eventually break the devotion to whatever Pir they are enthralled with. If this is done in a psychologically effective method, the result will be even more fantastic.

Ofcourse, the revolution must be managed and contained within the boundaries. For that effective border control is important and in that light, the power of the DIE must also be curtailed otherwise the effective border control will be diluted.

Avram

[Rangudu]

Given the pattern, we can expect the next "Aman ka Dhamakaa" on March 13. We can also expect MMS and SS Menon and co to keep their dance.

[niran]

Doc,
I too don't believe that land reform should happen if that is good for Pak Is Satan. But the mango abdul must be made to believe that all his troubles are due to his lack of land ownership and that his troubles will be over if he can forcefully take over the land of the Rape by own action or by collectively acting with several of his friends and relatives.
Avram

The mango banana abduls believe, as a matter of fact it is etched in their heads
" All their trouble comes from Bharat, all those billions of hectares them banias cultivating
are theirs, if onlee they get it back they will be rich and trouble free"
hence they will not take over the RAPE's land, but will hate Bharat and continue to exploited.

[shiv]

this kind of generalization is crap and perpetuates stereotypes..

IMO reality lies somewhere between what you write and what Avram wrote and is a function of cultural differences.

Humility and visible actions of gratitude and respect are perfectly common in India and are associated with India. I find my own NRI relatives on their yearly visits insisting that their iPod wielding Abercrombie and Fitch wearing kids fall full length prostrate ("sashthanga namaskaara") and hold on to the feet of "elders" of the family (grandparents) who are sometimes themselves reluctant to allow that.

It is in the "melting pot" of the US with all its social equality that makes social signals of hierarchy seem odd. A relative of mine who is a professor in the US remarked how difficult it is to get rid of cultural signals in the US. He has an associate prof who is from Africa in whose tribal society the junior is invariably expected to fall to his knees on meeting an elder or senior. My relative says that this man does that every time they meet.

When the Indian goes abroad he begins to feel that these exaggerated actions are unnecessarily servile - while in India they are not necessarily expressions of servility. These mixed emotions are clearly visible on this forum where people insist that they should not be called ji" or "Sir" because they have a Western derived "equality" mindset - while in India both "ji" and "Sir" are perfectly normal and non servile methods of addressing other people. The British "Thank you", "Please" and "Excuse me" are the English etiquette equivalents of "ji", "Sir and bowing. But the body actions of Indians appear servile in a western context. (Incidentally isn't "excuse me" a very servile thing to say?)

Sorry it's OT - but Avram may have misunderstood the Indian to Indian signals in a western setting.

[abhishek_sharma]

Economic woes

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... c-woes-720

Arguably, with the economy in the doldrums, containing budget deficits should not be the central plank of the economic programme because other areas such as a security net for the vulnerable and spending to spur growth must also be emphasised. This is partly why the IMF has been tolerant of Pakistan’s rising budget deficit and has accepted a target of over five per cent (though that too may be exceeded). But the real issue for Pakistan is that revenue generation through taxes is beset by structural problems, meaning that not only is existing revenue generation unacceptably low but also that revenue generation cannot easily be ramped up when the time comes for paying all the debt the country is increasingly being saddled with.

[SSridhar]

Hockey World Cup opens with Z+++ security

Security is so tight that for the expected capacity crowd of 16,000 spectators, nearly half as many of the people outside will be securitymen. There will be 5,000 policemen, 100 commandos and 1,000 paramilitary forces around the stadium.

Pakistan's two-decade long terrorism and our dhimmi non-retaliation is costing us, both in terms of such arrangements as above and the overall image. While tight security has become the norm all over the world, India is suffering enormously.

[shravan]

U.S. lawmakers get details of Pakistan aid plan


"This effort will reduce the ability of al Qaeda and other extremists to influence public perceptions and attitudes and support Pakistan's people and government as they establish a more secure, prosperous and lasting state," the report said.

[shiv]

Pakistan's two-decade long terrorism and our dhimmi non-retaliation is costing us, both in terms of such arrangements as above and the overall image. While tight security has become the norm all over the world, India is suffering enormously.

Sridhar I see two advantages in this kind of security

"Civilization" means a society that does not need protection of this sort and a lot of civilized societies died because uncivilized societies were ready to take advantage of the "civilization" of teh other society. Leave alone the example of say Somnath or Hampi - I have often written here about my snooty cousins who studied with me and then went to the US, who used to return for holidays in the 1990s and crinkle up a snooty nose at the airline security in India. That contempt lasted until 9-11.

The second advantage is that the "uncivilization" of Pakistan asumed that India could be thrown out of gear by taking advantage of soft targets (after they discovered that hard targets could not be easily defeated in wars.Such security is a clear signal that we will not be defeated no matter what.

There is no dhimmitude here IMO.

[krisna]

SHIV-- Anger has to be generated in society that the leadership is unable to care for those whom people admire. An angry deprived society is most likely to rise up in revolt and give the RAPE something to mull about.

SS--The idea of land reform is being touted as haraam in Pakistan even today. This can create one of the necessary preconditions for revolution.
The Pakistanis have unshakeable faith in Pirs. The NWFP was yanked away from the hands of the Congress very quickly by letting loose the Pir of Manki Sharif in 1946. Unless this blind following of the masses with their Pirs is broken, the 'revolt' is impossible. With time there might be a charismatic pir/mullah who can channelise the pakis to revolt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/world ... youth.html

Under the influence of Al Qaeda, their energies have been redirected and turned inward, against Pakistan’s own government and people.RAPE class

. Mr. Kundi and members of his circle — educated strivers who come from the lower middle class — are part of a new generation that has made militant networks in Pakistan more sophisticated and deadly. “It’s mandatory that we should give maximum losses to the agencies of Pakistan. This is also jihad.” A computer memory stick found on a militant linked to Mr. Ahmed and killed last fall in a shootout with the police in the southern Punjab town of Dera Ghazi Khan contained plans to destroy bridges and railroads and to strike at the heart of the Pakistani state, its military

Lot of IED mubarak technology on display in land of pure that is now slowly and surely turning against RAPE class.

Can a green revolution take place when critical mass is reached- the necessary ingredients appear to be in place---

[Pranav]

The process of Abdul class finishing off the RAPE class is already happening, it is called the Taliban. We just have to make use of them, like America did

I don't think the Abduls will really be swayed by some new wild-eyed types espousing a purer form of Islam. They have already reached a saturation point.

Some fresh secular ideas may really work in Pakjab. In any case, in the long run, it is almost impossible to perpetuate a subterfuge indefinitely. So honesty may indeed be the best policy.

Land reform for Pakjab ... and in other provinces, the additional feature of liberation from ethnic oppression.

There are a large number of really rabid types, but it is not more than 25% of the population, IMHO. The rest will be opportunistic Jihadis, who, because of their conditioning, will the support Jihadi bandwagon if they see they Jihadis winning against the Kaffirs. But they may also be amenable to fresh ideas.

But one thing to keep in mind ... ideological conditioning is necessary but people will not look support any new movement unless it can project power ... It would need to demonstrate the ability to severely kick the asses of the RAPEs.

[chetak]

Sucker punch!

What are we, in the process of giving up?

The amrekis and the pakis know that there is more than one way to skin a cat. The question is, does MMS and his aman ki asha gang also know this?

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... id=8075538

Unprecedented welcome for PM in Saudi Arabia

Riyadh, February 27, 2010


Prime Minister Manmohan Singh arrived in Saudi Arabia on Thursday evening to a historic welcome with the kingdom's crown prince and the entire Saudi cabinet turning up at the airport to receive him.

In an unprecedented gesture, Crown Prince Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz, Defence Minister, Minister for Civil Aviation and First Deputy Prime Minister, Prince Naif Bin Abdul Aziz, Interior Minister and the Second Deputy Prime Minister, Prince Salman Bin Abdul Aziz, the governor of Riyadh, and the entire Saudi cabinet set aside protocol and received the prime minister and his wife Gursharan Kaur at the Royal Terminal of the King Khaled International Airport.

It may be recalled that when Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz had visited India in 2006, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had broken protocol to receive the monarch personally at the airport.