Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby CRamS » 07 Mar 2010 13:25



Except of course when the religious extremosts traget those smelly, darky, rice eating, smarty Hindus. In theat case, the religious extremists especially of the TFTA Pakijabi variety who happen to be US allies, have a legitimate grouse as Mullen himself articulated many a times.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby SSridhar » 07 Mar 2010 13:30

Joseph, I agree with you that there are countless ways things can go wrong for us. But, doing nothing fearing failure or fearing a lack of progress is not an option. And, expecting a single bullet will finish off Pakistan is also not prudent. Pakistan will not go down on its own. We have to push it into the abyss.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby sreeji » 07 Mar 2010 14:16

Is pee'stan waging war(covert and overt) with India for the last 60 yrs just because they hate us? That too inspite of losing so much and destroying their own economy, just for some valley which they claim is theirs.
Pakis are just mercenaries paid for by 3.5 to keep India in check. All of their hate for India is carefully cultivated by using their media and distorting history. Their elites find that being anti India brings the bacon :D home. Thanks to the economic downturn and India's growth, we can offer them a better deal than the 3.5.

Pakis hate us because 3.5 pays them to hate us

India should make sure that Pakis find that it is more beneficial to not hate us

Is this line of thinking correct.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby abhishek_sharma » 07 Mar 2010 14:20

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby abhishek_sharma » 07 Mar 2010 14:45

Dawn Editorial

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/indian-pm-speaks-730-ha-01

There was still the familiar insistence that Pakistan ‘do more’ to tackle the militant infrastructure in this country but it’s worth bearing in mind that the Indian PM is a virtual dove compared to the hawks in his country. Look at the line other Indian politicians and officials have taken in recent days. Opposition leaders such as L.K. Advani have barracked the prime minister for ‘caving in’ to US pressure and agreeing to allow the foreign secretaries to meet. Opponents have criticised the government for even vaguely suggesting the possibility of Saudi ‘mediation’ between India and Pakistan. Richard Holbrooke has been forced to issue a grovelling apology for daring to suggest that Indians should not “jump to conclusion” over an attack in Kabul late last month that killed several Indian nationals (India has blamed the Lashkar-i-Taiba for the attack).

But the Holbrooke debacle also illustrates that Mr Singh’s government is not as ‘soft’ as it is alleged to be in India — a barrage of critical quotes from anonymous official sources helped fuel the storm over the US special representative’s comments.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Mar 2010 16:29

sreeji wrote:
Pakis hate us because 3.5 pays them to hate us

India should make sure that Pakis find that it is more beneficial to not hate us

Is this line of thinking correct.

Two corrections

1) They hate us anyway. They survive because of 3.5

2) I am coming around to the conclusion that they should never stop hating India. It is better for India that they are constantly keeping us on our toes even as they do everything to make sure that they get deeper into trouble.

Sooner or later a burgeoning population will begin to tell on Pakistan. I mean just look at it this way, sooner or later Pakis will want more food and water and jobs. Guess what their leaders will say "It's all India's fault"

The Abduls will say "Let us defeat India". The leaders won't attack. they will ask Abduls to attack India. India will have to shoot them down. In the meantime it should be possible to buy off a few desperate Pakis who will sell their souls.

How difficult would it be for a self styled "Secular Hindu group" to wage a propaganda war by openly conducting a ceremony of "de-Pakistanization" by making a Paki refugee sing vande mataram, paying him some money to "start a business" and gifting hm with a set of books CDs of various holy books and a free one year subscription to an Indian fili or girlie magazine. And after all that keep a watch on the guy in an "Ashram" set up for Pakistanis who renounce Pakistaniyat? It does not matter if there are only 1000 residents - but they publicity it should ge must be huge.

We can also play games no? But we are serious buggers. we don't play games. We let others play with us.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Mar 2010 16:45

the paqui middle classes know full well the RAPE and TSPA are managing the conflict scenarios in order to keep the baksheesh rolling in (from the 3.5) and therefore the economic wheels turining. however, unlike the RAPE and RAPE/jernails, they have a sense of patriotic duty to the nation and perhaps even the quam. i think that johan's analysis of where revolution must occur is quite right. it is here, amongst the 2 mango abduls who are on the streets. 1 mango (as shiv says rightly) is never on the streets unless there is the equivalent of my favourite west bengali political slogan ("food and drinks! workers fed! andolan!!")

2 mango still thinks that the TSPA will protect him, that is the final myth left to be broken. its high time there were serious televised documentary studies on the corruption and genocidial tendencies of the TSPA, beamed nightly across all channels into the paquisphere...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Mar 2010 17:15

Lalmullah - I am a little uncomfortable about all these references to Paqui "middle class"

Every time I have checked it appears that Paquis have a "middle class" of perhaps 8-12% of the population. Fine. Let me accept that. But hello? You find that 5% of Paquis own 95% of the land and the elite and extremely wealthy are less than 1%. So the top 50 % of "middle class" are actually wealthy land owners. I am certain that the so called Paki "middle class" are not the salaried class or businessmen. By and large they are feudals.

Going back to Johann's assertion that Pakijabi "middle class" might lead some revolution. they won;t they are feudals anyway.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Mar 2010 17:24

al hakimi
i accept your analysis - there is indeed a very thin layer of al-bourgeousie (as opposed to the al-noblese (RAPE)), and there is a blurring at the top end of the al-bourgeousie and al-noblese. however let us come back to '2 mango' as a working definition of the revolting. your assertion i believe is that when the paqui crowds march to al-bastille, they will be led by mullahs. johan's assertion is that it will be led by the scooter and fridge owning leaders of the proletariat. i suppose for me the key question is which way is the biskoot going to crumble, towards al-mullah, or towards al-scooteri. and which of these two groups is more scared of or willing to take on al-fauj?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Gerard » 07 Mar 2010 17:35

It’s like an interview with history as he unfolds chapter after chapter of world events in which he was a player dexterously mapping Pakistan’s course among the comity of nations. Did a supernatural power guide him? I ask. He smiles.


This Paki writer still thinks that Allah loves Pakistan?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Gerard » 07 Mar 2010 17:46

Yo Paklurks, your days of web surfing to finding p0rn are nearly over. Get thine behind over to the madrasa.

US' Microsoft blocks Mideast online sex searches

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby skaranam » 07 Mar 2010 18:02

sreeji wrote:Is pee'stan waging war(covert and overt) with India for the last 60 yrs just because they hate us? That too inspite of losing so much and destroying their own economy, just for some valley which they claim is theirs.
Pakis are just mercenaries paid for by 3.5 to keep India in check. All of their hate for India is carefully cultivated by using their media and distorting history. Their elites find that being anti India brings the bacon :D home. Thanks to the economic downturn and India's growth, we can offer them a better deal than the 3.5.

Pakis hate us because 3.5 pays them to hate us

India should make sure that Pakis find that it is more beneficial to not hate us

Is this line of thinking correct.


The premise for Pakistan's existence is Muslims cannot live in a secular country and as a minority. The fact that India exists, continues to thrive, and has more Muslims than Pakistan => the concept of Pakistan is nullified. Thus for Pakistan to survive, it has to defeat India. They hate India to their last cell. The political/military leadership of Pakistan find India to be extremely good and convenient reason for their failures. It is a good way to divert attention mango abdul from its problems and failures.
When Pakistan was formed with a concept of "anti" India, it had to get rid of all "Indic" associations. This resulted in massive distortion and a rewrite of history. In its efforts to get rid of its "Indicness", they moved towards being more Islamic and the introduction of "Arabicness" into its stream. Thereby more confusion to mango abdul. There is no way India can show anything to Pakistan. Even if it did, they cannot see or hear.

The 3.5 use Pakistan like a condom to suit their strategic goals. Pakistan uses 3.5 to score against India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Pratyush » 07 Mar 2010 18:40

SSridhar wrote:Joseph, I agree with you that there are countless ways things can go wrong for us. But, doing nothing fearing failure or fearing a lack of progress is not an option. And, expecting a single bullet will finish off Pakistan is also not prudent. Pakistan will not go down on its own. We have to push it into the abyss.


Sridhar, agree totally with you that we need to push Pakistan into abyss. However, we also need to figure out what to do with the ungovernable mass of rabid jihadies that will be left over after the demise of Pakistan. As I personally (no hard evidence) believe that the mad mullah crowd of current Pakistan will survive the destruction of Pakistan. I don't think the RAPE class nor the RATS will survive the meltdown of Pakistan.

One may say that let them kill one another. But even then the the risk of few of them banding together to have a go at India represents a great risk. Which will have to be managed.

The more I look at Pakistan in its current shape the more convinced I am that the weakness of the Pakistani civil society and its current and continuing jidhification is a deliberate attempt on behalf of the elites of Pakistan to make sure that India dose not try to break up Pakistan and assimilate the lands and population of former Pakistan in a greater India.

The question I am asking my self (and I don't have an answer ) is there a way to push Pakistan over the edge and also deal with the rabid jihadies of Former Pakistan and an acceptable cost to India. (i.e not getting nuked )

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby tarun » 07 Mar 2010 18:43

sreeji wrote:Pakis hate us because 3.5 pays them to hate us

India should make sure that Pakis find that it is more beneficial to not hate us

Is this line of thinking correct.

Ever played any turn based civilization/factional war type game ? There is an arch-enemy faction against which one can never be allied or have treaty of friendship, truce is best one can hope for against such a faction. E.g. free market faction can never allied for long with a green/planned economy faction and religious fundamentalist faction wouldn't every ally with a faction based on pure scientific progress as its goal. It doesn't matter what level of mistrust there is between Pak and 3.5 ( which incidentally can be instigated by covert actions or calibrated threat scaleup )

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby rajpa » 07 Mar 2010 18:53

goi should talk to isi and pa and also announce a huge public fund to be given as reward for destroying camps and delivering known criminals.. this will definitely get a lot of them interested.. come to think of it why is there no reward on the head of dawood or saeed..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby skaranam » 07 Mar 2010 19:22

shiv wrote:With respect Karanamgaru ....


Saar, please no "garu"...Also, i would like to take this asymmetric offline or in a suitable thread...is there a way we can do this?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Muppalla » 07 Mar 2010 19:31

Pak spy claims to have built Taliban
"I wish, I could do it but they don't need me any more… My students are far ahead of me now. They are giving a lesson to the world. I am very proud of them." Colonel Imam is the latest entrant into the ever proliferating list of former Pakistani spies who claim to have helped the Taliban's ascent to power in the late 1990s.
Last edited by Gerard on 07 Mar 2010 19:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote tags added

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Johann » 07 Mar 2010 20:02

shiv wrote:Lalmullah - I am a little uncomfortable about all these references to Paqui "middle class"

Every time I have checked it appears that Paquis have a "middle class" of perhaps 8-12% of the population. Fine. Let me accept that. But hello? You find that 5% of Paquis own 95% of the land and the elite and extremely wealthy are less than 1%. So the top 50 % of "middle class" are actually wealthy land owners. I am certain that the so called Paki "middle class" are not the salaried class or businessmen. By and large they are feudals.

Going back to Johann's assertion that Pakijabi "middle class" might lead some revolution. they won;t they are feudals anyway.


however let us come back to '2 mango' as a working definition of the revolting. your assertion i believe is that when the paqui crowds march to al-bastille, they will be led by mullahs. johan's assertion is that it will be led by the scooter and fridge owning leaders of the proletariat. i suppose for me the key question is which way is the biskoot going to crumble, towards al-mullah, or towards al-scooteri. and which of these two groups is more scared of or willing to take on al-fauj?


I need to reword something, because I think it came out the wrong way - I don't believe the middle class would *lead* a revolution in Pakistan. What I am saying is that the essential fuel to every revolution is middle class frustration, anger and disillusionment.

Authoritarian and totalitarian states work incredibly hard to externalise that anger and frustration, and in order to do that they need to be able to set and control the agenda in the media and in public discourse. That doesn't work so well in a relatively open media market.

As for Shiv's suggestion that there is no middle class in Pakistan, I have to ask if you Shiv if you're really thinking about Pakistan's cities and towns, or if you are thinking about its countryside.

The vast majority of the millions who work for the Pakistani state in some capacity (PSUs, civil service, state and muncipal govt, education, public healthcare, etc) fall in to the middle class category, as do the millions that own small and medium businesses.

I don't think many people outside Pakistan understand the *huge* economic impact of migration either. Many of those millions in the middle class got there because someone, or several someones got a job in the Gulf at some point in the last 35 years, worked hard and sent money and goods back. Indians from places like Kerala or Punjab might have a better sense of how that kind of 'working class' migration can change class dynamics and class structure. Emigration from Pakjabi villages to the UK, Canada, US, EU, Australia, etc has produced a similar effect, with money transforming housing, lifestyle, social position, source of employment, etc.

Pakistan has after Sri Lanka the highest rate of television penetration in the Subcontinent. Even in the poorest rural areas, unemployed men hang around in tea shops where more often than not there is a television blaring satellite TV in the background, and its changing things, first and foremost their expectations, and secondly for the first time a real diversity of opinions and views in the media.

Pakistan under Ayub Khan was the first to start state-run terrestrial TV broadcasts in the subcontinent, seeing it as a powerful internal and external propaganda tool. India under IG scrambled to follow suit, especially when people in border areas started watching PTV. The tables were turned when India became part of the satellite TV revolution with Zee TV, Sony, etc. The Pakistani state was resigned to the hope that Pakistanis watching private Pakistani channels would be less damaging than Pakistanis watching Indian news and entertainment.

Why do you think its so hard for the state to shut down or control the big channels? Money, and lots of it! These channels have become the centre of all kinds of economic activity, big and small that cuts across many classes and interests. Consumption in Pakistan is growing, and its not just fuelled by a few hundred families. There is a middle class, and it wants a better life, and that spending in turn is creating more economic opportunities for the same middle class.
Last edited by Johann on 07 Mar 2010 20:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Mar 2010 20:05

Pratyush wrote:Sridhar, agree totally with you that we need to push Pakistan into abyss. However, we also need to figure out what to do with the ungovernable mass of rabid jihadies that will be left over



You know pratyush - it has been shown time and time again in the world that a mad ungovernable mass of people are usually controlled by some local goon with weapons and a few other goons. So I don't think we need to worry too much about that mad mass.

Let me reveal my own discovery Channel syndrome.

There was a great program that showed how a machine gun that was facing a mass of madmen running at it would be run over - while a machine gun placed at the flanks would mow them down. Masses of mad people can always be killed if they choose to attack. those that come in peace will have to be put in depakistanization "Ashrams" where "ishwar Allah tere naam" is blared all day and everyone sings Vande Mataram.

But I am going too far - most of that mass in now the responsibility of the Paki army to control. Remember that a baby that was born in 1997 when I bribed BR to make me a member will now be growing a moustache and he wiil not know by intuition that India is bad. Teh Paki army has to be really active in telling everyone who is bad and who is good. Those lucky guys in teh Paki army have got their job cut out for them! :rotfl: Imagine is a few million here and theer get away without being taught that India is bad, Basant is bad, water is all in India etc. That also is education no? That also requires work no? :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Johann » 07 Mar 2010 20:20

More on the resistance to Zaid Hamid and his PA pals attempt to drum up Zia's militant Islamic Pak-nationalism;

http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/6830

Zaid Hamid, a pro-terrorism speake, came to Islamia College University Peshawar today. He was however forced to stop his way into college premises by the pro-peace movement students organisations. The Amn Tehrik has a secular program, which aims to promote peace and fight terrorism and extremism in the region.

...About 13 Students belonging to pro peace federation and student societies were arrested, prominent among them were Tariq Afghan, Majid Khan, Riaz Marwat, Imtiaz Wazir, Ayaz Khan, Zohaib, Dosat Mohammad these students opposed to militant Agenda in region. The students were in the lock up of the university police station for more then 8 hours, and finally were released by the intervention of Amn Tehrik . Amn Tehreek leader rush to Islamia College University and protest against Zaid Hamid and their supporters, chanted slogan against the administration and the Governor NWFP.

The Amn Tehrik Convener Idrees Kamal and other leaders including Dr. Said Alam Mahsud, Qaiser Khan Advocate, Arbab Tahir, Asad Mayar, Zahid Buneri, Gulzar Khan, Tariq Khan, Aziz Buneri participated in protest in Islamia College University. Students of Islamia College University chanted slogan against the administration.

Amn Tehrik demanded of the federal government to dismiss the Governor who favored a terrorist religious cleric who is engaged in promoting an agenda of terrorism and extremism in the region especially among students of schools, colleges and universities in Pakistan with strong support from Secret Agencies and Pakistani establishment. Amn Tehrik and students organisations will hold a joint press conference in Peshawar Press Club shortly.
Last edited by Johann on 07 Mar 2010 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Mar 2010 20:22

Johann wrote:The vast majority of the millions who work for the Pakistani state in some capacity (PSUs, civil service, state and muncipal govt, education, public healthcare, etc) fall in to the middle class category, as do the millions that own small and medium businesses.

I don't think many people outside Pakistan understand the *huge* economic impact of migration either. Many of those millions in the middle class got there because someone, or several someones got a job in the Gulf at some point in the last 35 years, worked hard and sent money and goods back. Indians from places like Kerala might have a better sense of how that can change class dynamics and class structure. Emigration from Pakjabi villages to the UK, Canada, US, EU, Australia, etc has produced a similar effect, with money transforming housing, lifestyle, social position, source of employment, etc.

Pakistan has after Sri Lanka the highest rate of television penetration in the Subcontinent..


Johann-ji I am saying things AFTER referring to info that is available AND taking TVs into account. I kid you not. I first did that while referencing for my e book 3-4 years ago. I have done that again literally 2 months ago and [posted it on this forum. I need to search for the refs and wil link them here. The Pakistani middle class has no reason to suddenly grow by several tens of millions.

If you ask me what people do not realise - it is the real number of the really screwed up people in Pakistan. I will post figures for you soon - including the TV figures. There is a big bluff in which the media are filled by RAPE and their western visitors and the impact of the real mango Abdul is being ingnored.

Actually the TV ownership rates are higher in India (Except one ref that i saw). It is cellphone penetration that is higher in Pakistan and there is a reason for it

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shiv » 07 Mar 2010 20:28

Here is a copy paste of my original post
viewtopic.php?p=807526#p807526
In general I don't like IndiaPakistan comparisons. Being better than Pakistanis hardly a goal, but sometimes a comparison becomes inevitable. When I was collecting data for my Paki ebook I did not have the benefit of YouTube. Of late I have been watching YouTube videos of ordinary street scenes in Pakistan and I was struck by two things. First I realised that the cars in Pakistan are the same as the cars in India and that new models released in India were being released in Pakistan as well. The second realization was that the "similarity" of India and Pakistan was not just that - but a whole lot of other things. For example - there is a particular model of 7-faced pre-cast concrete kerb stone that has appeared in India in the last 10 years. Pakistan too appears to have exactly the same model of pre-cast kerb stone.

To me this indicates that the same companies are supplying both countries. OK - it may be India that is actually producing much of the stuff - but not necessarily. As for the pre-cast concrete blocks - the mould and machinery to mass produce that are certainly being made by the same company. What that means is that while we spend inordinate amounts of time seeing differences between India and Pakistan (as the Pakis do) people who are doing business in both countries are making profits from both sides because of physical proximity - and the pre independence similarity of the two nations is continuing into a post independence similarity.

So I decided to look at some of these question in a little bit more detail, and I post that here because I believe it is more relevant to India and Indians than Pakistan. I looked at the number of cars per thousand first - and in India it is 12 per thousand and Pakistan is 8 per thousand. The figure for all "developed nations" is over 500 per thousand. Of course the statistic translates to 12 million cars in India and 1.2 million in Pakistan - which means that 91% of the business for those "common suppliers" comes from India, which has about 88% of the people in IndiaPakistan. Not a huge difference. I find that the cost of a Maruti Omni van in India is about INR 2 lakhs, while the same model in Pakistan is PKR 5 lakhs.

When I look at television sets per thousand, it is 58 for India and 19 for Pakistan. India had (2003) 58 million TV sets versus 2.8 million in Pakistan. 95% of the TV sales of a common supplier occur in India, which has 88% of the combined population of IndiaPakistan.

Looking at Cellphones it appears that 5% Pakis and 36% Indian own cellphones, but with 360 million phones (It's more now) in India and 88 million in Pakistan 80% of cellphone sales occur in India.

I was wondering if the data could be viewed differently. It is said that 25% of Indian (250 million) and 24 % Pakistanis (37 million) are below the poverty line. Clearly, cars, TV sets and cellphones are bought only by those above the poverty line. So if we compute the above figures taking into account only those people above the poverty line in both countries we get

Cars 16 per thousand APL India (APL=above poverty line)
Cars 10.6 per thousand APL - Pakistan

TV sets 77 per thousand APL - India
TV sets 25 per thousand APL Pakistan

Cellphones: 48% Indians APL own one
Cellphones: 78% Pakistanis own one

I was wondering if these figures say something and they do. Cars, TV sets and cellphones can be graded in that order according to price (anywhere in the world. No mater where you go cost of car>Cost of TV> cost of Cellphone.

India has a relatively larger percentage of people who are able to afford Cars and TVs. I believe this represents the vastly larger middle class in India. But why do cellphones indicate a different trend. It turns out that the penetration of cellphones (lines per 100 people) is higher in Pakistan than in China, leave alone India. This is probably a function of a much smaller land area that is easy to cover. The smallest countries in the world have the highest penetration. Trinidad is among the highest in the world.

I was wrong about the explanation for cellphones - it is because of number portability. Number portability makes the difference in penetration in a relatively inexpensive item such as a cellphone.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby JwalaMukhi » 07 Mar 2010 20:37

shiv wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Sridhar, agree totally with you that we need to push Pakistan into abyss. However, we also need to figure out what to do with the ungovernable mass of rabid jihadies that will be left over

There was a great program that showed how a machine gun that was facing a mass of madmen running at it would be run over - while a machine gun placed at the flanks would mow them down. Masses of mad people can always be killed if they choose to attack. those that come in peace will have to be put in depakistanization "Ashrams" where "ishwar Allah tere naam" is blared all day and everyone sings Vande Mataram.

These depakisation 'ashrams' and exclusive special theatres are to be setup in what is today called as Baki land. At the most it can only be setup inside 'no-man's land'. The idea is not to import good or bad bakis inside what is present day India for whatever reason. The solution to the problem needs to be sought within the perimeters of present bakiland. Preventing refugees has to be accomplished by setting up refugee camps within bakiland. Period.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Johann » 07 Mar 2010 20:51

Shiv,

I can't find the most recent version of the Gallup Pakistan Media Report. I have it somewhere in my archives. If anyone else has it please post it on the thread.

The following data is from 2000-2002, from the Pakistani government's economic survey and from Gallup Pakistan.

There has been *very* significant growth in TV ownership and viewership in the decade since thanks to a number of factors.

TV Ownership in Pakistan • 5 million urban TV homes • 5 million rural TV homes • 10 million TV homes in the country (Since some TV homes have more than one TV set, the total number of TVs can be estimated to be 11 million)
Source Gallup Pakistan, the Pakistan affiliate of Gallup International.

TV Viewer ship • Urban areas: 69% • Rural areas: 37% • Total: ~ 40 million Total TV Viewers (including regular and casual viewers and those who view from own homes or public place /neighbors / friends)

Cable and Satellite Penetration • Among urban TV viewers 42% • Among rural TV viewers 16% • Among all Pakistan TV viewers 29%


40 million out of 185 million people is a very serious level of TV penetration.

I didnt take it very seriously until last year, and what I've learned since has changed my views on a number of fronts.

Please see if you can get a hold of "Satellite Television and Social Change in Pakistan: A Case Study of Rural Sindh" by Muhammad Ali Shaikh, published by Orient Books Publishing House in 2007.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Mar 2010 21:21

This from June 2008
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2008_pg5_2

In the national electronic media domain, the cable television remained the fastest growing field with the number of subscribers across Pakistan has increased sharply from 1.50 million in 2004-05 to 3.27 million by the end of last fiscal year.

Punjab leads with 1.27 million subscribers followed by Sindh 1.01 million, NWFP 0.50 million and Balochistan 0.04 million. Islamabad has six times more TV subscribers at 0.22 million as compared to Balochistan.


If we average 8 persons per household
http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/sta ... _rate.html

then cable has roughly 26 million viewers, which is in Johann's ballpark.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Pratyush » 07 Mar 2010 21:25

shiv wrote:

There was a great program that showed how a machine gun that was facing a mass of madmen running at it would be run over - while a machine gun placed at the flanks would mow them down. Masses of mad people can always be killed if they choose to attack. those that come in peace will have to be put in depakistanization "Ashrams" where "ishwar Allah tere naam" is blared all day and everyone sings Vande Mataram.


Shiv, agree with depakistanization but how to make them reach that stage, when they openly welcome depakistanization.

As I strongly feel that we as a nation need to start articulating the need to destroy Pakistan. Because as long as Pakistan exists its 3.5 friends will always think that they can use it to hold India down. We know from experience that Pakistan can't hold India down. But India will have to spend blood and treasure to protect its citizens and economic growth form the madness that comes out of Pakistan.

How to do this, that is the question.
Last edited by Pratyush on 07 Mar 2010 21:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Mar 2010 21:27

Another link:

http://atac.casbaa.com/country_pakistan.aspx

TV viewership has undergone an amazing transformation since the arrival of satellite TV and is currently available in about 45% of all TV homes. Channels are accessed mainly via cable operators at a relatively low cost. In the past five years, TV viewing has risen considerably and varies dramatically by region. Increased availability at a relatively low cost has also led to higher consumption of satellite channels of both local and international origin. Satellite TV is now available to 38 million people across the country with STAR Plus and PTV leading the pack.

Pakistan Actual
Population 164,223,500
Total Homes 24,150,515
Household Size 6.8
TV Homes 16,422,350 (68%)
Multichannel Homes 7,390,058 (45%)
Internet Users 18,500,000 (11%)

Source: CASBAA, Gallup Pakistan, Internet World Statistics (as of September 2009)


FYI, Indian numbers from the same source - not for equal-equal, but for veracity of method:
http://atac.casbaa.com/country_india.aspx
Subscription TV penetration continues to grow and now reaches 85% of urban India. The most recent estimates of subscription TV penetration are 95 million connections, 68% of all TV homes. The Indian TV industry has an outlook that the rest of the region can only marvel at. In the DTH space, over 2.5 million subscribers are being added every quarter, reaching into 15 million homes by the end of 2009.

India

Actual
Population 1,167,062,590
Total Homes 218,927,241
Household Size 5.3
TV Homes 140,130,681 (64%)
Multichannel Homes 95,004,147 (68%)
Internet Users 81,000,000 (7%)
Source: CASBAA, SNL Kagan, TAM India, Internet World Statistics (as of September 2009)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Mar 2010 21:35

NWFP - # of television sets, 2004-05 to 2006-07
http://nwfp.gov.pk/nwfpgov/Departments/ ... ab-186.php

N.W.F.P
2004-05 758652
2005-06 816959
2006-07 880855

Can serve as a consistency check on the data (e.g., # of cable subscribers should be smaller than the number of TV sets).


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shravan » 07 Mar 2010 22:34

Al Qaida commander nabbed in Karachi
March 7 , 2010
KARACHI: Law enforcement agencies Sunday arrested another key al-Qaeda commander during a raid at Super Highway in Karachi, ARY NEWS reported.

The militant commander, identified as Abu Yahya, is said to be a close aide of Usama bin Laden.

He was held along with his two accomplices here as intelligence agencies conducted rain on a house on a tip off at vicinity of the metropolis, officials said.
Last edited by shravan on 07 Mar 2010 22:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby shravan » 07 Mar 2010 22:35

Seven killed as jets pound Sararogha
March 7 , 2010
WANA: At least seven people were killed and two others injured as jet fighters pounded militant hideouts in Sararogha Tehsil of South Waziristan.

Sources said, two jet fighters targeted militants hideouts in Hamdana area of South Waziristan at 2 pm, killing seven people on the spot.

Officials claim to have killed militants while the locals refused the claim and said those killed were innocent people and had nothing to do with terrorist activities.

The death toll in the incident is expected to rise.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Guddu » 07 Mar 2010 22:38

kenop wrote:^^^
Adm Mullen says this
In an address to the US Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth on Friday, the admiral noted that America has been at war continuously over the last nine years against a syndicate of Muslim extremists, led by Al Qaeda and supported by a host of both state and non-state actors.

Any previous quotation from him along these lines?


Dont know his previous thoughts, but this is a significant squeezing of paki b@lls. Here's what might be happerning: From what I have been reading elsewhere, Mullah Birather was communicating directly with the US, the pakis want all communications to be handles thro ISI. So they arrested him, and now there are no lines of direct communications between US and Afghan Taliban and communication is at a standstill. The US needs to finish negotiations quickly for a withdrawl troops and so they have pulled out their ace card. Co-operate or we will agree with India's view point, in essence India will have our permission to strike you. Perhaps, this is all pulled out of my musharraf :lol: ...but that's how I see it. If this line of reasoning is true, it also says to me that the US is not keen for the pakis to mediate in Afghanistan and are only reluctantly handling negotiations thro them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Anindya » 08 Mar 2010 00:00

Pakistan is trying to strengthen the grass-roots support for terrorism that exists in that country:

From http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_india-imposed-war-on-pak-by-constructing-illegal-dams-saeed_1356441

Saeed was briefly detained by Pakistani authorities after India accused him of masterminding the attacks but was freed on the orders of the Lahore high court in June last year.

Over the past few weeks, Saeed and other JuD leaders have addressed a series of gatherings and given media interviews in which they have backed calls for jehad against India and expressed support for militant groups operating in Jammu and Kashmir.

Hundreds of people, including farmers riding tractors, participated in today's rally. India and Pakistan have serious differences over sharing of waters in rivers such as Indus and Chenab.

The protestors marched from Nasir Bagh ground to the assembly on Mall Road, where Saeed addressed the gathering.

The participants carried banners and placards with slogans like "Water or War", "Diversion of Pakistani rivers- Indian water bomb", "Water flows or blood", "Liberate Kashmir to secure water" and "No peace with Indian water aggression"
.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Prem » 08 Mar 2010 00:36

After JUD's Big PIG Digged publicly at GOI that they will have millions Pakjabis march toward Wagha for Water, the mango abdul farmer rally is no surprise . Its time Goi make plan to catch all these yahoos in tight space near Wagha so not a single bullet from LMG and HMG go waste . This kind of aggression and violation by Pacquistani civilians make them legitimate target to be removed from the battlefield. While at it how far is Lahore , Bahawalpur from the border, are they within Pinaka and Smerch reach? Hope these MRLS can shower cluster bomblets in high lucky seven figures wthin few hours.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Gagan » 08 Mar 2010 00:59

Muridke is just 26 Km from the Indo-Pak border.

The range of a Bofors shell is ....?

The means have always been there. There is no will, or that there is no perceived benefit from using the bofors or other things that are at the armed forces disposal. This is across an international border we are talking about

Similarly, a lot of terrorist camps are in the Neelum Valley (or atleast used to be) in POK. Well within arty range. RayC saar or others might be able to tell more. There was an era when there were regular artillery duels across the LOC. I don't see how a terror camp would have survived the indian artillery if it was within range. This means that the camps were further away, deeper in POK, mostly around Muzaffarabad, Rawalakot, Mirpur, Desolai plains, Chitral etc, but ever since the artillery guns are silent, a few staging areas might have come back closer to the LOC.

On a sidenote: When seeing the artillery positions of both India and pakistan on google earth, one can understand, that india's 155mm howitzers are virtually trapped there. India can't move them back to another border because the corresponding pakistani camps will be out of range of the other artillery guns that the IA has. The guns which are in positions along the LOC will be there and that's that.

If India wants 155mm artillery in another border, new ones will need to be procured, can't move the ones on the LOC.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Naidu » 08 Mar 2010 01:24

Reports in Pakistan Say U.S.-Born al-Qaida Militant Arrested

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03 ... st.html?hp

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) -- The American-born spokesman for al-Qaida has been arrested by Pakistani intelligence officers in the southern city of Karachi, two officers and a government official said Sunday, the same day Adam Gadahn appeared in a video urging U.S. Muslims to attack their own country.


Looks like the Pakis are working overtime to impress the US. Why? And, why now?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Muppalla » 08 Mar 2010 01:27

Naidu wrote:Looks like the Pakis are working overtime to impress the US. Why? And, why now?


There is report/tweet that says that Kiyani is going to visit US. He has to show something before the gubo.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby Gagan » 08 Mar 2010 01:39

India surprised over Pak Foreign Minister's statement about Hafiz Saeed
New Delhi, Mar 7 (ANI): The Government here on Sunday expressed surprise over the Pakistan Foreign Minister, Shah Mohammad Qureshi's statement saying New Delhi did not seek arrest of Hafiz Saeed, one of the masterminds of 26/11 terror attack.

...

"A dossier containing a compilation of evidence on the involvement of Hafiz Saeed in the terrorist attack was handed over to Pakistan on August 21, 2009 and his name featured prominently in yet another dossier handed over to the Pakistan Foreign Secretary during the talks on February 25, 2010," the statement added.

"Saeed's activities including his recent vitriolic and venomous statements aimed at fomenting further acts of terrorism against India and the unhindered public space and freedom he enjoys in Pakistan was raised strongly by India during the Foreign Secretary-level talks,"

...

On Sunday, talking to reporters in Multan, Qureshi had claimed that India never demanded the arrest of Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed nor it discussed the issue at the talks between Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir here on February 25. (ANI)


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Postby CRamS » 08 Mar 2010 03:21

Gagan wrote:Duniya TV - Tonight with Najam Sethi: Indo-Pak relations.


Boss, can you summarize and present the highlights for us.


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