Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Mar 2010 11:15

Did you notice the == there? About not investing in manufacturing in TSP as in India...why dont they ask their all weather friends who orifices they lick on daily basis to come and invest in their terrorist state of fanatic barbarian animals?

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Mar 2010 12:11

Even probably insane Pakistani origin murderers seem to fear the baleful influence of Islamic radicalism in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

.

Pakistan origin Islamic cable TV station owner Muzzammil Syed Hassan who is under trial in the US for the 2009 beheading his wife for daring to start divorce proceedings, fears his children will be radicalized in Pakistan according to his lawyer:

Hassan lawyers eye psych defense

By Matt Gryta
NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: March 06, 2010, 6:46 am / 7 comments
Published: March 06, 2010, 12:30 am

……………….. The two attorneys also said they will begin court action to try to get Hassan’s two children returned from Pakistan, where they were taken by Aasiya Zubair Hassan’s relatives.

Hassan fears the children “will be radicalized” in Pakistan, Bogulski said.

Buffalo News

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 09 Mar 2010 12:52

Good anaylsis from KS on the likely scenarios wrt to Pakistan.

http://www.maritimeindia.org/pdfs/KS_DJ_07Mar10.pdf

If the US has a strategy to counter Pakistan’s deception, it will be in India’s interest to
correlate its own counter-terrorism strategy with a broader American one. But given the
nature of the counter-terrorism war against Pakistan, the US may not share its strategy
with India in advance. This places India in a dilemma in assessing whether America is
being taken for a ride (as it was during the Bush period) or is it biding its time to initiate a
counter-terrorism attack to full effectiveness.
The first assessment will call for counter-measures by India in case of a terrorist attack
while the second assessment may call for very restrained response. This judgment calls
for very close interaction and coordination between the security establishments of India
and US. While it is unrealistic to expect the US to reveal its counter-terrorism action
plans in the Pak-Af area to the Indian authorities, it is in US interest to let India know
their assessment of the Pakistani change in policy. Otherwise there is a risk of Delhi and
Washington working at cross-purposes. That should be avoided at all cost.

So even KS is advocating counter measures if US is taking India for a ride regarding Pakistani terrorism.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 12:57

There you go your kafirs, eat your hearts out.
China to invest $50 billion in Punjab

LAHORE: Chinese investors have indicated to invest US $ 50 billion in Punjab during the next 10 years. The objective of the investment is to construct a modern and large industrial city along with an industrial estate on 100,000 acres of land.

This was conveyed by Yan Li, leader of a seven member Chinese delegation and chairman Tengzhong group of China, currently visiting Pakistan at a meeting held at the head office of Punjab Industrial Estates (PIE) and Development & Management Company here.

...(Names of all important officials mentioned heiyar)

The leader of the delegation who is also chairman of a mega Chinese industrial group, Asia International Development Limited, said the investment would provide at least employment to 100,000 families {Notice round round figures} and their group would not only construct a special economic zone but also hospitals and other welfare projects along with the mega project. He said that according to the first year plan, about 5 to 7 billion US $ would be invested and it would be significantly increased in coming years.{IOW pakistan is on its way to becoming the modern day Atlantis - kyon ji?}

He said that overall his group intended to invest up to US $ 50 billion, however, the Punjab government should provide a condusive atmosphere for investment. Chairman PIE SM Tanveer informed the delegation the Punjab government under the leadership of Mian Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif, the Chief Minister of the Punjab, was striving hard to attract foreign investment and the visit was a follow-up of CM Punjab’s visit to China in November.

You kafirs, be afraid. Be very afraid.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 09 Mar 2010 12:59

I was watching Hamid Mir's show (links were provided a few pages back). He is talking about hatred from the Indian side. Do these guys live in an alternate universe or something? In some other show, some dude was saying that India is insisting on terrorism as the main issue. What are these guys expecting? India should not talk about terrorism and start talking about modalities of handing over Kashmir to them.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 13:08

Power tarrif hike to destroy economy

Proposed increase of Rs1.2 per unit in electricity tariff would push the cost of exportable items, making Pakistani textiles costly and inflicting loss of millions of dollars. It will also cause closure of more industries as industrial sector will not be able to absorb this shock; leading to more unemployment & poverty in the country.

Khurrum Mukhtar, Chairman Pakistan Textile Exporters Association, and Vice Chairman Sohail Pasha said this while briefing the newsmen here Monday.

They said that increase in prices of electricity is adding up the production cost not only directly but also through trickle down effect on other inputs of production.

...

“Pakistani exports are already under pressure due to prevailing economic financial, industrial crisis in the country as well as persistent law and order situation and the energy crisis which were badly affecting the industrial and trade activities, the productivity output and workers employment,” they asserted.

They said, “Textile exports of the country are crumbling and the industry and business were squeezing under severe credit crunch and unrealistically exaggerated credit rates”,

...

Khurrum Mukhtar said that hike in power tariff will also hit hard the textile industry, which is the growth engine of the national economy.

...

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 09 Mar 2010 13:30

arun wrote:Even probably insane Pakistani origin murderers seem to fear the baleful influence of Islamic radicalism in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan .

Pakistan origin Islamic cable TV station owner Muzzammil Syed Hassan who is under trial in the US for the 2009 beheading his wife for daring to start divorce proceedings, fears his children will be radicalized in Pakistan according to his lawyer:

Hassan fears the children “will be radicalized” in Pakistan, Bogulski said.

Pure tactics as this is probably more favourable approach to get away with lighter consequence?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Mar 2010 17:24

Gagan wrote:China to invest $50 billion in Punjab
The leader of the delegation who is also chairman of a mega Chinese industrial group, Asia International Development Limited,

I tried googling Asia International Development Limited but nothing pops up. Is that a real chinese company or something the chini-jabis made up?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 18:45

anupmisra wrote:I tried googling Asia International Development Limited but nothing pops up. Is that a real chinese company or something the chini-jabis made up?

100 stribes to you! You have not been attending classes in LMU.

Asia International Development

Make any sense now hain ji?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Mar 2010 19:43

Chinese or other country - invented, fantasy or real - should be applauded openl for investing in POWI! After all, it will all be ours in time! Go on 3.5 - invest, develop, build. It will one day be India's.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 09 Mar 2010 19:53

B-Ji,

With or Without Pigs

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2010 19:56

^^^

I think India must insist that any defense/military equipment sold (especially the US of A) to POWI must comply with Indian C4, as non-compliance will lead to integration issues later.

Perhaps we shouldn't pick F-solah or F-18 for MMRCA as it is already in our arsenal; and we found it sub-standard compared to our beloved Rambhas

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 19:58

One possible solution to the Af-Pak problem is here on this CIA map that we've all seen.

Why don't the powers that be, make Afghanistan the dominant power in Af-Pak and leave it to deal with both the pakistani-remnant and Iran? It might sound silly today, but one of the aims of pakistan's strategic depth policy is to prevent any such eventuality. It seems the generals in pindi fear this.

Why not let their fears have a life of its own?

Added later: Karachi is a contested region between the baloch and the Sindhis - how many people know that? Karachi lies to the west of the Indus, and the balochis allege that their territory was taken from them and handed over to the sindhis. This map shows karachi to be a part of sindh.

Also POK reverts back to the Indian nation with a common border between india and afghanistan, cutting off chinese access to pakistani-remnant.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2010 20:07

^^^ Gagan ji

That is what I proposed more than a year ago. We need to build Indic-version of Taliban (religious students) and put them in control in Afghanistan. Their objective should be to impose their version of Islam on Islamic world. Indic-version of Islam would be something that accepts Allah but not the PBUH as the final word. It says Islam is an evolving faith and will accept the other faiths as possible paths to Allah or something like that.

on lighter vein

Gagan = One, who fires in to air
Jagan = One, who fires in to the crowd

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Mar 2010 20:20

shravan ji,
the non-veg among us should have no problems eating up pork or bacon! Ancient literature sometimes shows examples of "banya varaha" being very very tasty! On a more serious vein, I think the human material is always precious - worth "saving". The leaders - make an example out of them. Embrace the common abdul. Promise scuttling the big landholding estates of the leaders and feudals - and redistribution among the mango abdul. And those men and boys who should be encouraged to come out to fight and defend their honour need not worry about their womenfolk. We have an adverse ratio on our side of the current LOC all along the west (not just the one on J&K) - surely we can make "honourable ones" out of the "orphaned"!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Mar 2010 20:21

What are they doing? What can touch them? can they be tapped? Can they be screwed more so they revolt?

Someone (Prem?) pointed one answer to this puzzle - radio. Doesn't need AC power and is small portable and quite capable of disseminating incendiary/revolutionary and/or holy messages.

Its no coincidence the Maulana FM types in Swat used FM radio to stir revolution. They only managed to rotate and not revolve, that time. Next time, lez hope the next Maulana FM MkII will have better luck.....

Also, wasn't it reported the pakis were setting up radio stations near LoC in kashmir and near IB in punjab to broadcast vile bile into Yindia? Last I heard AIR reacted and effectively jammed them out.

Now, it would be fun if Raa put out front page ads in pushtu newspapers in Afgn asking for Dari speakers for the AIR Dari service only.....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 20:28

Hari Seldon wrote:
Its no coincidence the Maulana FM types in Swat used FM radio to stir revolution.

Exactly! In any case TV is haraam for many in those parts

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 20:34

Says who that TV is haraam? Don't the pakistanis have a flourishing heera mandi type industry? Where do all those mujra videos get made in this part of asia?
Don't the pakis search for internet por n most of the time?

There is no way that the gobernment of pakistan is going to ban the DVDs from the streets of pakistan. The mullahs and talibs tried that, but that industry simply refuses to die, it goes underground for a while, but rebounds as soon as it can.

That por n DVD idea has some merits, provided it also has suitable propagandu. But then to expect some arm of GoI to ever start to act on it

the pakis would have done a tit for tat before GoI can even begin.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 20:58

No matter who governs or pretends to govern Pakistan, it currently has about 60 -80 million absolutely poor people who have next to nothing and have nowhere to go. Given a choice many of these people would migrate elsewhere - at least the men. to earn money.

Do we want the responsibility of "looking after" and providing for these people?

Ok supposing we say "Yes" what would we do? We would say "Ok. Respect all people. All faths. Do land reforms. Blah blah blah"

How to do land reforms in Pakistan? We would first have to take the land from the biggest landowner the Pak army - who will protest. India's current fight is exactly this.

But think again. Who are we to take on Pakistan's problems? OK the army may say that WE must give those 80 million land or water. Balls we don't d that. Those 80 million need to fend for themselves. If they want anything they have to take it from The Pak army themselves. After all Pakistan is a large fertile country. If people are poor its not our problem.

In fact the unity of Pakistan is good. An intact Pakistan is not in our interest if the people become wealthy and productive. But right now with the people under care of the Paki army - the latter are welcome to keep them. If they have no land - so what? If they have no water so what? If their population is increasing rapidly - so what? We are nobody to advise the Paki army what to do. I am sure they can manage those people on their own.

Recall that the minute we say that an intact Pakistan is NOT in our interest - the 3.5 get their underwear in a knot. So yes. Let Pakis manage Pakis. Heck the Popultion of Pakis has gone up by 25 million in the last decade I have been on BR. That is 7000 babies a day. We don't want those guys.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 21:12

This report tells that people knew that it was "only a matter of time" and warned the authorities to move that interrogation house (where there will be screams in night) out of their neighborhood.
Pakistan bomb victims warned of looming attack

Head covered in bandages and perched on his balcony, he recounts how his upscale neighbourhood in Lahore had complained for months that a police facility across the road was a prime target just waiting to be hit....

Residents had passed on whispered tales of screams echoing from the basement at night after alleged Islamist militants were ushered into the two-storey building with their faces covered to be interrogated by security forces.....One fact the residents of Model Town agreed upon -- it was only a matter of time until militants, who last year attacked security targets in Lahore on four occasions, took revenge.

Sure enough......

"This bomb, it was expected any time. We did whatever we could -- we brought it to the attention of the government," said Javed, 60, whose house was in tatters after the bombing just metres away.
Lahore, Pakistan's historic cultural capital and home to many military and intelligence top brass, has been repeatedly in the militants' sights, with more than 130 people killed in attacks in the past year.

Violence is usually concentrated largely in the lawless ..[some part about border area edited out to make it more correct] , Pakistan's most populous province which has Lahore as its capital.

"Lahore is not secure because it's a big city where there are a lot of security offices and their headquarters, which are potential targets," said Sarha Ahmed, a housewife.

.....
"Our guard, who comes at night, says that there were some noises sometimes at night in the building, presuming that some accused were being tortured," said Noorul Ora, 25, who was studying in the religious academy when the blast hit.

.......

"It was our hunch that there can be a blast here and sadly this happened, but no one listened to us," he told AFP.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 21:17

Model town in lahore is where a lot of ill gotten wealth is stashed. There are big big houses of top netas, army officials and bureaucrats there.

Nawaz Sharif has one of his houses in the area too, albeit quite a distance away from the site of the blast.

This is a hit in a posh area of lahore. The elite there are bound to have a browning of the pants.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Mar 2010 21:31

csharma wrote:I was watching Hamid Mir's show (links were provided a few pages back). He is talking about hatred from the Indian side. Do these guys live in an alternate universe or something? In some other show, some dude was saying that India is insisting on terrorism as the main issue. What are these guys expecting? India should not talk about terrorism and start talking about modalities of handing over Kashmir to them.

They don't from their vantage point. And in this, they are aided by the "international community". I was talking to an Asian studies Professor from USC, with "South Asia" being part of his portfolio. He was doing the equal equal on terror, and when I pointed to the hate against India that is preached in TSP, his retort was its the same in India, and he asked me do you forget Gujarat? Thus, to the "international cimmunity", India and TSP are 2 sides of the same coin, which suits TSP just fine; LeT == "Hindu extremists"; and LeT will go away if only "root causes" are resolved. From being a perpetrator of terror, which they still are, they have now morphed into an "equal victim", which even Indian PM MMS never looses an opportunity to assert passionately. So TSP' point is, f$%ck all this terror crap, forget small incidents like Mumbai, we have has "1000s of Mumbais", lets resolve the root causes. And for good measure, they will say this, and add that "peace" with India will let them take on the Al Queda terrorists. Now, isn't this msuic to the "international cimmunity". Now, given the power of information in the hands of those who control it, this is now the established "truth", and it will be you and I that appear to live in an alternate universe when we point to the real truth. This is the price of India's cowardly inaction. Economy continues to grow at 10% onlee, and MMS is a Chankyan who will propel India to superpowerdom. This was the refrain from an fortune 500 company executive friend of mine.

. Do you want to laugh or cry?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Mar 2010 21:46

Paki PIG Parsad will be distributed as time for sure will come. Before that we must have Indo centric ruling elites and civilizational forces at forefront. Regarding Inetrnational community, we know how they act in front of Chinese so bidding for our time cant be wrong . Every dog has its day. Pakis are like vegetables jumping up and down because of the fire=International community =3.5 Auliyas underneath. Diffuse the fire and cook the Pacqui like crab or lobster so they die without even registerring any awareness in their famous retarded brain.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Mar 2010 22:05

Ahmad Shuja Pasha has got himself an extension.

It will be interesting to see if this was on the authority of the Government or unilateral action on the part of the Army:

ISI chief given extension

Harsha.H.D · Post by **Harsha.H.D** » 09 Mar 2010 22:26

INDIA PAKISTAN TALKS -- The fiasco that need not have been

The author was the head of RAW from 2001 to 2003

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 23:27

arun wrote:Ahmad Shuja Pasha has got himself an extension.

It will be interesting to see if this was on the authority of the Government or unilateral action on the part of the Army:

ISI chief given extension

General Kiyani has given him an extension, and informed the PM Geelani about it. As simple as that.
For the pakistan army chief, things such as propriety, constitution, due course of law, proper channels are from a distant world. None of these need have a bearing on his functioning.

This is the second such extension kiyani has given.

Later this year, he will be giving such an extension to one General Kiyani, COAS of Pakistan following in the precedence set by Gen Zia-Ul-Haq, who as President gave the COAS - Gen Zia-ul-Haq an extension and mailed that letter to the COAS's office, and then duly proceed to receive that letter and sign his acceptance in the COAS's office.

Talk of split personality.

anandsgh · Post by **anandsgh** » 10 Mar 2010 01:21

Mr. Bhatt will never change!!!

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=7819

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 10 Mar 2010 01:52

Shiv,

I don't know if you remember this, but last year I was the one who posted the UN high, low and medium estimates for Pakistani population growth until 2050, and urged the forum to think seriously about the consequences that India will face, and what India's choices will be.

So I certainly don't think Pakistan's enormous and growing marginalised communities can somehow be ignored as irrelevant.

However quite separate from that is the political reality of class power relations and the nation-state. Pakistan has a middle class, and its opinions and attitudes will make a far bigger *direct* impact on political events than the suffering of the rural masses.

Reducing the political picture of Pakistan to the super-wealthy establishment and the illiterate, hungry landless labourer is a mistake. The middle class is the backbone of the nation-state and all of its institutions, both public and private. That is why the middle class always has an impact out of all proportion to its size.

Pakistan's neglect of its rural poor has incredibly serious consequences for the Pakistanis, and unfortunately for everyone else. However, the worse things get for Pakistan as a whole, the more concerned the middle class is for its prospects, and if they withdraw legitimacy from the PA, there will be consequences. Accelarating that process is within India's reach.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Mar 2010 02:50

However class struggle and religiopolitical reactionary forces (to use Marxist terms) will be more relevant than a relatively miniscule middle class. the historical 20 th century examples of revolution have been precisely where there has been a large impoverished majority-Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba. This is the error of Marxist theory.

Pakistan will of course chose Islam as a dialectic. It is inevitable. The new mohajirs (fleeing the zombie masses) will be in London, New York and New Delhi.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 10 Mar 2010 02:53

Will request such a report to be part of the opening thread links for future threads. It will clarify to readers that the problem is not just the Madrasas but the official curriculum of the Government of Pakistan. Summary posted below.
The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan

Pakistan’s public education system has an important role in determining how successful we shall be in achieving the goal of a progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan. A key requirement is that children learn to understand and value this goal and cherish the values of truthfulness, honesty, responsibility, equality, justice, and peace that go with it.
Children’s identities and value systems are strongly shaped by the national curricula and textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civics from Class I to Class XII. The responsibility for designing them lies with the Curriculum Wing of the Federal Ministry of Education and the provincial Text Book Boards. The Curriculum Wing is mandated to design all pre-university curricula and issue guidelines to textbook writers and school teachers. Provincial Textbook Boards commission writing of textbooks and get them printed after their contents are approved by the Curriculum Wing.

A close analysis by a group of independent scholars shows that for over two decades the curricula and the officially mandated textbooks in these subjects have contained material that is directly contrary to the goals and values of a progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan.
The March 2002 revision of curricula undertaken by the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education did not address the problems that existed in earlier curriculum documents. In some cases, these problems are now even worse.
Our analysis found that some of the most significant problems in the current curricula and textbooks are:
␣␣ Inaccuracies of fact and omissions that serve to substantially distort the nature and significance of actual events in our history.
␣␣ Insensitivity to the existing religious diversity of the nation
␣␣ Incitement to militancy and violence, including encouragement of Jehad and Shahadat
␣␣ Perspectives that encourage prejudice, bigotry and discrimination towards fellow citizens, especially women and religious minorities, and other towards nations.
␣␣ A glorification of war and the use of force
␣␣ Omission of concepts, events and material that could encourage critical self-
awareness among students
␣␣ Outdated and incoherent pedagogical practices that hinder the development of interest and insight among students

To give a few examples:
The books on Social Studies systematically misrepresent events that have happened throughout the Pakistan’s history, including those which are within living memory of many people.
This history is narrated with distortions and omissions. The causes, effects, and responsibility for key events are presented so as to leave a false understanding of our national experience. A large part of the history of South Asia is also omitted, making it difficult to properly interpret events, and narrowing the perspective that should be open to students. Worse, the material is presented in ways that encourage the student to marginalize and be hostile towards other social groups and people in the region.

The curricula and textbooks are insensitive to the religious diversity of the Pakistani society. While learning of Islamiat is compulsory for Muslim students, on average over a quarter of the material in books to teach Urdu as a language is on one religion. The books on English have lessons with religious content. Islamiat is also taught in Social Studies classes. Thus, the entire is heavily laden with religious teachings, reflecting a very narrow view held by a minority among Muslims that all the education should be
essentially that of Islamiat.24

There is a strong current of exclusivist and divisive tendencies at work in the subject matter recommended for studies in the curriculum documents as well as in textbooks. Pakistani nationalism is repeatedly defined in a manner that excludes non-Muslim Pakistanis from either being Pakistani nationals or from even being good human beings. Much of this material runs counter to any efforts at national integration.
The Constitution of Pakistan is cited but misinterpreted, in making the reading of the Qur'an compulsory in schools. The Constitution requires the compulsory reading of the Qur’an for Muslim students alone, but in complete disregard of this restriction, it is included in the textbooks of a compulsory subject like Urdu which is to be read by students of all religions. The Class III Urdu textbook has 7 lessons on Nazra Qur'an and its translations. The Urdu and Social Studies curricula even ask for all the students to be taught Islamic religious practices like Namaz and Wuzu.

Besides severe pedagogical problems like uneven standards of lessons in books on English and Urdu languages and bad English even in the English language books, glaring contradictions exist in books on Social Studies. Together, these factors make it almost impossible for students to develop critical and analytical skills.

The curriculum as well as textbooks excessively emphasize the "Ideology of Pakistan" which is a post-independence construction devised to sanctify their politics of those political forces which were initially inimical to the creation of Pakistan
Most of the textbook problems cited above have their origin in two sources: (1) curriculum documents and syllabi and (2) the instructions to textbook authors issued 24 Education and the Muslim World: Challenge and Response. Recommendations of the Four World Conferences on Islamic Education, Institute of Policy Studies, Islamabad, 1995.
vi from the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education. As long as the same institutions continue to devise curricula, the problems will persist. Repeated interventions from the post-1988 civilian governments failed to overcome the institutional resistance.
The problems are further accentuated when the authors of textbooks produce books that are heavily laden with doctrinal material and devoid of much useful instructional content. The provincial textbook boards are to be held squarely responsible for repeatedly failing to produce textbooks that are useful and interesting to students.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Mar 2010 03:01

In 2005-06 the poorest of the Pakistani Members of National Assembly (MNA) had Rs. 11.36 million in declared assets. Please remember that many of the MNAs claim not to have a car or other vehicle. When Hamid Mir questioned a few on Capital Talk, it was revealed that the car was in their spouse's or brother's name. Those who declare vehicles, e.g, have a SUV worth 4 million and so on.

In the recent Feb 25, MNA-55 district by-poll, the winner Malik Shakeel Awan has declared assets of about Rs. 7 million + 50 tolas of gold. Hamid Mir and others sort of referred to the winner as "lower middle class".

Just FYI.

The "Fair and Free Election Network" is the watchdog NGO that has some of these statistics.
http://www.fafen.org/v1.fafen/
http://www.fafen.org/v1.fafen/view_data ... nd_doc.php
for future reference.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Mar 2010 03:06

anandsgh wrote:Mr. Bhatt will never change!!!

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=7819

I just saw a little bit. Its surreal that Indians can have such bhaichara conversations with a terror spnsoring state. TSP is playing a good game. TSP sends terrorist messages to those it needs to send to, namely nationalists, us jingoes, Indian security, politicains opposed to them etc, and wink, wink, smile, smile, denies any wrongdoing knowling fully well that the message it intended to send was recieved, case in point being the impotent rage and anger from the aforementioned quarters; and in another breath, its RAPE talk to our RAPE about movies and why "extremists on both sides" are playing spoilt sport. At least TSP's RAPE are in cahoots with their ISI and army; its morons like RAPE Bhatts on our side who make an ass out of themselves and of India.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Mar 2010 04:08

Pak lurkers and Internet worriors of deaf and dumb types - for you a story from wpost:
Prosecutors reveal terrorism charges against 'Jihad Jane'

Federal prosecutors unsealed criminal terrorism charges Tuesday against a Pennsylvania woman who allegedly used the Internet to recruit men and women across the globe to "wage violent jihad."

Colleen R. LaRose, a U.S. citizen who used the nicknames "Fatima LaRose" and "Jihad Jane," ... <snip>

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 10 Mar 2010 04:40

'Kasab's Statement Cannot be Used Against Accused in Pak'

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?676283

In a significant ruling that could affect the trial of seven suspects charged with involvement in the Mumbai attacks in Pakistan, a bench of the Lahore High Court today ruled that the confessional statement of Ajmal Amir Kasab could not be used against the accused.

Kasab is the lone surviving gunman in the Mumbai terror attack and is being tried in a special court in the financial capital of India.

The Rawalpindi-based bench of the Lahore High Court gave its order in response to a petition filed by LeT commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and other accused who are being tried by an anti-terrorism court for planning and help execute the 2008 attacks in Mumbai.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Mar 2010 05:10

The stage is being set to free Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. If one remembers, he is perhaps the only high ranking LET member to be positively identified and charged. he was

very loudly that he has been abandoned by the powers that be after years of faithful service to the cause.

The others standing trial are believed to be fakes or stand in lower rung people.

Pakistan refuses to give india photographs or voice samples of the men accused so that India can build a fool proof case against them by matching voice samples and positively identifying those involved.

One last irritant for the LET members and the ISI officers involved are the two men undertrial in Chicago. Dawood Geelani aka David Headley and Tahawwur Rana have confessed in court, are trying to make a deal to escape the electric chair, and prevent extradition to India. There were US citizens killed in mumbai 26/11, and the FBI will pursue this matter as best as the GOTUS will allow it to. If not the current US administration, then perhaps the next administration will.

India will have to breath down the neck of any POTUS / GOTUS to go after the terrorists.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 10 Mar 2010 05:12

U.S. sandwiched in Afghanistan between India’s Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistani Defense with water fueling the fire.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Mar 2010 05:56

Johann wrote: I don't know if you remember this, but last year I was the one who posted the UN high, low and medium estimates for Pakistani population growth until 2050, and urged the forum to think seriously about the consequences that India will face, and what India's choices will be.

So I certainly don't think Pakistan's enormous and growing marginalised communities can somehow be ignored as irrelevant.

However quite separate from that is the political reality of class power relations and the nation-state. Pakistan has a middle class, and its opinions and attitudes will make a far bigger *direct* impact on political events than the suffering of the rural masses.Shiv,

Reducing the political picture of Pakistan to the super-wealthy establishment and the illiterate, hungry landless labourer is a mistake. The middle class is the backbone of the nation-state and all of its institutions, both public and private. That is why the middle class always has an impact out of all proportion to its size.

Pakistan's neglect of its rural poor has incredibly serious consequences for the Pakistanis, and unfortunately for everyone else. However, the worse things get for Pakistan as a whole, the more concerned the middle class is for its prospects, and if they withdraw legitimacy from the PA, there will be consequences. Accelarating that process is within India's reach.

Johann let me reiterate my stand which I believe has been misinterpreted by you.

India is stuck between a rock and a hard place where political theories about what the middle classes may or may not do are complicated by the "hate India" ideology of the middle classes.
India has been fortunate that Pakistan has only a small middle class - but those who reach middle class status in Pakistan end up hating India. Have you looked at the poll results over the years about attitudes towards India? The poorest Pakistanis may serve as recruits for jihad but their daily concerns cannot be of defeating India - it is more of daily bread. Jihad is a luxury fuelled by the rich and the middle class.

Despite the burgeoning of TVs (from 2.5 million to 16 million) the "middle class" in Pakistan still remains small. The rise of the middle classes in Europe did not come from the agrarian economy. It came from industrialization and trade. And those wealthy middle classes wanted more and supported their political systems ending up making some very powerful colonial nations out of small European states.

Why on earth would India want to improve Pakistanis? As long as they remain poor and under the influence of the feudal classes the people will suffer and Pakistan is unlikely to see an economic revolution beyond what its 3.5 friends showers on the country. I am not saying "ignore" the poor of Pakistan. On the contrary I am saying encourage poverty and deprivation in Pakistan.

It would be absolutely stupid of India to protest (as I did in my ebook) that Pakis are screwing their poor people. The more rich Pakis screw the poor the worse Pakistan will be in the long term, and the better it will be for India.

i am saying "I salute the poor of Pakistan. May their numbers increase exponentially. May their dreams of becoming jihadis be fulfilled". Middle classes are created out of a viable economy. Why on earth would I want india to help Pakistan get viable economy when Pakis are all happy rich people with servants available for the asking? The responsibility for improving the lot of Pakistanis remains with the rich in Pakistan. India should play no role.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Mar 2010 06:24

I have a point to make when I speak of the feudal rich, the small middle class and large numbers of poor in Pakistan.

There is a tendency for people to get enamored by a "fairy tale" scenario in which Pakistanis suddenly get a secular education, they develop and industrialise, forming a huge middle class segment, and that huge middle class will bring down the bad bad rulers of Pakistan.

What is more likely to occur in the short to medium term while we sit with fingers crossed waiting for a Pakistani middle class revolution is as follows. I will try and make the details clearer than I did when I alluded to this in an earlier post.

Right now Pakistan has about 10-20% rich and middle classes and 80% mostly poor. This is a rough estimate that will not matter much to what I am saying even if it is a few percentage points this way or that. While the 80% poor contribute men for jihad, the money comes from the activities of the rich and middle classes.

Now remember that Pakistan has a population of 165 million in 2010. About 130 million are poor and the vast amounts of money for jihad are being generated by the activities of 32 million odd Pakis. Not much money is going for birth control or education (Allah be praised for that!).

Now in 10 years time Pakistan will have about 190 million people. If the ratios of poor to wealthy remain the same, we will see 40 million wealthy Pakis contributing to jihad (25% more), while 150 million remain screwed up. That means that even if Pakistan does very little to improve the lot of its poor, the numbers of people contributing funds for jihad against india will rise. But if Pakistan were to "develop" and magically get 100 million middle class and rich with only 90 million poor in 10 years time - Pakistan will have a huge number of wealthy India haters contributing to jihad.

Luckily such magic is not possible easily.

What I am saying is that this must not be allowed to occur even by chance. Pressure must be maintained on Pakistan to be afraid of bad, bigoted India so that they do not spend on education or development. They are hardly likely to institute land reforms any time soon. We need to hope to see a Pakistan with 200 million poor and screwed up people. The interesting part about poor and screwed up people is that they can always be controlled by guns or by small sops. That is what Pakis are doing to their 100 million poor now. I would like to see them doing it to 200 million poor Pakis in the future. But let the burden of controlling those poor screwed up Pakis be on the Paki army. Remember that every child who is born has to be educated to hate India. That is also education. You need to reach out to every child and tell him India is at fault. That massive task is for the Paki army to do. maybe they can increase TV sets from 16 million to 32 million (with US funds - we can sell them the TV sets) and teach every poor person to hate India. That is fine with me. What is dangerous is to start developing Pakis - building schools and hospitals and making Pakistan safe for investment. India should in no way contribute to Pakistan's development.

May the poor of Pakistan increase in size and desperation.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 10 Mar 2010 06:32

In support of Shiv's contentions above, a recent article by Christine Fair made it plain that it is in fact middle income Pakis who are more likely to support Jihad, LeT etc as opposed to poor Pakis. Not that we needed Ms Fair to tell us that but it was surprising to hear an American source explode the canard of "poverty breeds jihadism", so assiduously perpetuated by the 3.5 friends to justify their policies.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Mar 2010 06:32

ShauryaT wrote:Will request such a report to be part of the opening thread links for future threads. It will clarify to readers that the problem is not just the Madrasas but the official curriculum of the Government of Pakistan. Summary posted below.
The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan

Shaurya this has been part of the first post for many years now. I recall putting it in the first post at least 5-6 years ago. It's still there.