Military Media Watch Thread

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 02 Mar 2010 15:32

Gen Malik in thick soup as India’s AFT takes up Kargil war issues

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that after the Kargil conflict was over, the Army Headquarters at New Delhi, that were stormed by controversies and massive criticism, not only for the debacle at the war front but also for the massive financial wrongdoings in the direction of procurements by army, directed all the commanders of the Kargil front to immediately submit citations for the bravery of the soldiers so that the pressure from the political circles could be minimized nonetheless to boost up the morale of the demoralized troops. These findings indicate that in the hasty compliance of strong orders from the headquarters, the commanders at Kargil made a variety of blunders and submitted many fake citations with the recommendations of top military awards including the highest and the most prestigious PVC award.

The Daily Mail’s findings reveal that the wrong citations started surfacing soon and the biggest blunder in this regard emerged when the farcical episode of PVC recipient Grenadier Yoginder Singh Yadave began to unveiled as Yoginder was found hiding at a military hospital in New Delhi while, following the fake citations of his commanders, the government of Indian awarded him with the posthumous (after death) PVC award.

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that in a bid to overcome this outrageous blunder, the Indian Army begun a high-level inquiry into the “unpardonable mistake” of declaring one of the Param Vir Chakra winners, Grenadier Yogendra Singh Yadav, dead, though he was actually an absconder and hiding in an army hospital in New Delhi. Senior army officers said it was at the Srinagar headquarters of the 15 Corps or Northern Command headquarters in Udhampur that the goof up happened.
These findings further indicate that the then Indian Army Chief General V.P Malik tendered an apology, while the Defence Ministry accepted the mistake. Chief of Army Staff General VP Malik ordered an inquiry and warned of severe punishment for those responsible for the outrageous mistake but nothing has happened till today but on the other side, Yoginder was not deprived of the award until the outcomes of the inquiry committee, which never came up with any conclusion, enabling an absconder to enjoy the honour of being PVC recipient, though he has never been any out of the turn promotion etc, to recognize his “bravery” while such promotions and benefits otherwise come as a package for a PVC recipient in India.


The Daily Mail’s investigations indicate that Indian army leadership was put on a flashing burner by the opposition parties in the parliament not only for outrageous display of combat at Kargil but also for huge financial wrongdoings in procurements, during the conflict. These findings indicate that after pointing out glaring lapses and improprieties in purchase of specialised mountain warfare equipment for the Kargil war, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India had said that even non high-altitude weaponry deals were pushed through by the Defence Ministry in the name of Operation Vijay. “Though deployment of T-72 tanks was not possible at high altitude,” the defence ministry had used the pretext of Operation Vijay and the relaxation of procedures to push through a deal worth $27.17 million in July, 1999 for delivery of 2800 rounds of T-72 ammunition from Israel and another 7000 rounds within six months, the CAG said in its report tabled in the Indian Parliament .

The Daily Mail’s investigations reveal that T-72 ammunition was not the sole case of ‘non-emergent requirement’ pushed through as another glaring example was the import of 644 items of spares for combat engineers tractors from the Royal Ordinance, United Kingdom in January, 2000 at an estimated cost of 439,810.33 pounds sterling. Saying that out of 644 items, 475 spares were only bin items, the CAG had stated that the deal was gone through without reviewing the justification for bin samples for spares included in the contract, even though these combat tractors were due to be phased out by 2003. “Thus even unnecessary and non-emergent requirements were pushed through Operation Vijay procurement,” the CAG said in its report. The Daily Mail’s findings indicate the CAG had pointed out that the deal went through even though sufficient funds were not available under the relevant head for purchase of ammunition adding that relaxed procedure for Kargil operations were used to push through the deal.



Shocking stuff... Scandal galore........ Shameful.
Last edited by shukla on 02 Mar 2010 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

Gaur
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 02 Mar 2010 15:38

^^
No, the shocking stuff is that we are discussing daily mail here.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 02 Mar 2010 15:41

Gaur wrote:^^
No, the shocking stuff is that we are discussing daily mail here.


Agree.. Doesn't get any better does it?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby abhishekm » 02 Mar 2010 15:51

shukla wrote:
Gaur wrote:^^
No, the shocking stuff is that we are discussing daily mail here.


Agree.. Doesn't get any better does it?


The Daily Mail is a "fake" newspaper in the true sense of the term. It only exists online (how convenient) and has no circulation as such. Its "correspondents" are mostly Zaid Hamid-type people using different aliases. Or maybe it's only Zaid Hamid writing under different names! Here's an interesting selection of "stories" from the Daily Mail from http://tehzib.wordpress.com/2010/02/04/ ... newspaper/ :

Here are a few things you would believe if you read the Daily Mail Pakistan regularly:

1. RAW was responsible for the Tibet uprising.

2. RAW sponsors Shiv Sena.

3. In order to contain the menace of soldiers committing suicide the India army has deployed 200 prostitutes as Border Security Guards. According to the report when confronted the Inspector General of BSF Himmat Singh ‘refused to admit that these female soldiers were actually prostitutes and were being dispatched to the valley as undercover sex workers. When contacted, Rohit Sharma, a senior defense analyst here in New Delhi, said that the move was a creative step by Indian army leadership as it would boost the medical and mental health of the soldiers.’


4. A proof of India supporting Taliban is that the Taliban have been using curry bombs (I kid you not) made up of spices and pepper against Pakistani security forces; a weapon indigenous to Indian Ordinance Factories. This is a whole new definition of curry bombs, which previously used to refer to a bodily function induced after certain vertically challenged individuals devoured spicy curry.

5. Indian authorities are planning a prostitution extravaganza coinciding with the 13th commonwealth games. “The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that the organized escort agencies, both big and small scale, from Mumbai, Pune, Goa and Bangalore, hotbeds for A-list prostitutes, are already at the drawing board, listing out the probables that will be sent to service the over one hundred thousand visitors to the 2010 Commonwealth games. These investigations further reveal that While precise numbers cannot be ascertained, the shortfall in the number of women available in New Delhi is approximately 50 per cent, of which 25 per cent will be met by the cities named above. The other 25 per cent will be sourced from Punjab and Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and the North East. The 10, 00,000, figure includes sportspersons, officials and visitors to the games.” Those pesky Indians have no shame.

6. The ISI is the first line of defense for the whole world. “The contributions of ISI in curbing the terror in the region are a crystal clear signal for the global peace and security. The Daily Mail also believes that the ISI is not only the first defense line of Pakistan but under the given situation, ISI is the first defense line of the entire world while the American CIA has miserably failed on securing the peace and security across the glob. The Daily Mail takes this opportunity to advise the CIA and other clandestine services of the world to help and strengthen the ISI as this agency is the key to overpower the menace of terrorism and extremism. Only a fool can expect that ISI would deliver with 100% without any such guarantee or plan…. Because the ISI, that every patriotic Pakistani believes, is the only body that is concerned about Pakistan’s security and solidarity…no one believes the politicians.”


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 02 Mar 2010 15:54

shukla wrote:Gen Malik in thick soup as India’s AFT takes up Kargil war issues

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that after the Kargil conflict was over, the Army Headquarters at New Delhi, that were stormed by controversies and massive criticism, not only for the debacle at the war front but also for the massive financial wrongdoings in the direction of procurements by army, directed all the commanders of the Kargil front to immediately submit citations for the bravery of the soldiers so that the pressure from the political circles could be minimized nonetheless to boost up the morale of the demoralized troops. These findings indicate that in the hasty compliance of strong orders from the headquarters, the commanders at Kargil made a variety of blunders and submitted many fake citations with the recommendations of top military awards including the highest and the most prestigious PVC award.

The Daily Mail’s findings reveal that the wrong citations started surfacing soon and the biggest blunder in this regard emerged when the farcical episode of PVC recipient Grenadier Yoginder Singh Yadave began to unveiled as Yoginder was found hiding at a military hospital in New Delhi while, following the fake citations of his commanders, the government of Indian awarded him with the posthumous (after death) PVC award.

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that in a bid to overcome this outrageous blunder, the Indian Army begun a high-level inquiry into the “unpardonable mistake” of declaring one of the Param Vir Chakra winners, Grenadier Yogendra Singh Yadav, dead, though he was actually an absconder and hiding in an army hospital in New Delhi. Senior army officers said it was at the Srinagar headquarters of the 15 Corps or Northern Command headquarters in Udhampur that the goof up happened.
These findings further indicate that the then Indian Army Chief General V.P Malik tendered an apology, while the Defence Ministry accepted the mistake. Chief of Army Staff General VP Malik ordered an inquiry and warned of severe punishment for those responsible for the outrageous mistake but nothing has happened till today but on the other side, Yoginder was not deprived of the award until the outcomes of the inquiry committee, which never came up with any conclusion, enabling an absconder to enjoy the honour of being PVC recipient, though he has never been any out of the turn promotion etc, to recognize his “bravery” while such promotions and benefits otherwise come as a package for a PVC recipient in India.


The Daily Mail’s investigations indicate that Indian army leadership was put on a flashing burner by the opposition parties in the parliament not only for outrageous display of combat at Kargil but also for huge financial wrongdoings in procurements, during the conflict. These findings indicate that after pointing out glaring lapses and improprieties in purchase of specialised mountain warfare equipment for the Kargil war, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India had said that even non high-altitude weaponry deals were pushed through by the Defence Ministry in the name of Operation Vijay. “Though deployment of T-72 tanks was not possible at high altitude,” the defence ministry had used the pretext of Operation Vijay and the relaxation of procedures to push through a deal worth $27.17 million in July, 1999 for delivery of 2800 rounds of T-72 ammunition from Israel and another 7000 rounds within six months, the CAG said in its report tabled in the Indian Parliament .

The Daily Mail’s investigations reveal that T-72 ammunition was not the sole case of ‘non-emergent requirement’ pushed through as another glaring example was the import of 644 items of spares for combat engineers tractors from the Royal Ordinance, United Kingdom in January, 2000 at an estimated cost of 439,810.33 pounds sterling. Saying that out of 644 items, 475 spares were only bin items, the CAG had stated that the deal was gone through without reviewing the justification for bin samples for spares included in the contract, even though these combat tractors were due to be phased out by 2003. “Thus even unnecessary and non-emergent requirements were pushed through Operation Vijay procurement,” the CAG said in its report. The Daily Mail’s findings indicate the CAG had pointed out that the deal went through even though sufficient funds were not available under the relevant head for purchase of ammunition adding that relaxed procedure for Kargil operations were used to push through the deal.



Shocking stuff... Scandal galore........ Shameful.


when those in air conditioned comfort comment who can take them on

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Avik » 02 Mar 2010 16:37

This Daily Mail is a Paki ghost paper anchored by that ladyboy, Ahmed Q. There is no hard copy version available. It claims to have a Beijing edition, of course in addition to the one from Slumabad.
Its articles and editorials are worth less than used toilet paper after a diarrhoea run. Its intellectual calibre is also pretty much at the same level.

I would request forum members to display the same etiquette towards it as the unmentionable forum. Probably less.

It has nothing to do with the British Daily Mail, not that that is a paragon of intellectual rectitude.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby sumshyam » 11 Mar 2010 07:47

NO MORE THAN 124 ARJUNS SAYS ARMY

In July 2008, the DRDO had told the government in a note, "If the army does not place further orders for Arjun we cannot even amortize the infrastructural investments made by the government for its productionisation, thereby resulting in wasteful expenditure. The Army should place orders for additional 300 tanks before we can break even."

The official I spoke to says that concerns about recovery of investment by the Heavy Vehicles Factor (HVF) and CVRDE are being addressed by Secretary (Defence Production) and some sort of "back-up measures" will be taken.

He explained, "The point is the Army has been putting up its submission that it already has a main battle tank in the T-90 and that inducting the Arjun in its present configuration will be a logistical challenge. They have been repeatedly saying that Arjun must be progressed to a more modern design and configuration so that it can find greater usability in the Army. There might be some ill-feeling because after all it is a prestige issue also, but that is separate. Now everyone is in agreement that the Arjun in its present configuration is a closed chapter. It has to move forward."

The official also echoed what DRDO chief VK Saraswat said at his recent press conference about how the trials currently on in Rajasthan are not true comparative trials, but rather "to identify the optimum placement, positioning and deployment of Arjun MBT taking into account its capabilities and logistical signature." He explained that there was no longer any question of testing the Arjun's capabilities. "User trials have been carried out extensively and the tank has been accepted as a proven platform. But the Army feels it is a dated design, though the Army also observes that it is an excellent platform for further development indigenously," he added.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Neshant » 11 Mar 2010 12:49

Trailer of a Russian movie about their pilots who got kidnapped by the Taliban in 1996 in Kandahar (and their escape).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLL66TJvvXI

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Nikhil T » 30 Apr 2010 08:31

Due To Security Reasons Chindits Will Be Blocked For Sometime As Arihant Pix Come Up. Only Those By Invitation Will Be Able To View them !!!

Sumanji is really whipping up the hysteria. If she just wants selected few people to see the Arihant pics, why doesn't she just email them ?? Not to mention, its probably illegal.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Srivastav » 30 Apr 2010 09:09

Nikhil T wrote:Due To Security Reasons Chindits Will Be Blocked For Sometime As Arihant Pix Come Up. Only Those By Invitation Will Be Able To View them !!!

Sumanji is really whipping up the hysteria. If she just wants selected few people to see the Arihant pics, why doesn't she just email them ?? Not to mention, its probably illegal.

Yeah i found this really weird too. if she is doing it for a bunch of close friends...she can do it by not making a post bout it. Unless its a movie premier kind of a thing for selected people and then the mango people will get a view. i hope she knows that if she is doing this for security reasons, people can still save a picture to their computer even if you disable the right click feature.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 30 Apr 2010 09:20

Srivastav wrote:[
Yeah i found this really weird too. if she is doing it for a bunch of close friends...she can do it by not making a post bout it.


Nothing weird. It fits in with an attention seeking personality. I am sure the photos of Arihant don't exist at all, but by making such a post and closing the blog for some time a claim is being made that photos are being seen in private. That is the oldest bluff in the book :rotfl:

Here are are some of my own pictures of Arihant
www.hakimbulla.com/secrets/private/restricted/Arihant

:mrgreen:

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Srivastav » 30 Apr 2010 09:48

shiv saar...those are excellent stealth submarine pics.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Raja Bose » 30 Apr 2010 12:21

Gawd, that lady is something else. This type of sillyness along with those glory pics of her kissing her "consolation" trophy pretty much confirm her attention-seeking disorder. :roll: Maybe she should join politics. :mrgreen:

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 19:06

cross post

Jaeger wrote:Shiv, that's a good point. However, I still think there's a lacuna in the media's self-regulatory mechanism. I don't think the Indian media cares... actually strike that - I think the media PREFERS to use images that create a stereotype of state brutality.
Using your point, there could have been a long story behind that image, but the editor has chosen to use THAT specific image to represent the events that unfolded. Why?



i am sure you are right in that it happens in many instances. People are on the lookout for pictures that tell stories - even if the story is a bluff.. An exposed breast in a play because of a wardrobe failure can be passed off as soft pjorn. Faces with emotions tend to evoke human emotions as this picture did and the media do not give a damn as long as they get eyeballs.

But I have a broader and more general while about Indian media still camerapersons. They are just naive idiots. Nincompoops when it comes to selecting smart, flattering images of the forces. In Indian democrazee every baboon with zero photography skills gets access to places with things to be seen. And we get utter tripe. We get a photo of an LCA or Jaguar being pushed by 25 men with chappals. We get close ups showing peeling paint in scenes where that should be judiciously left out. This cheenkis do a marvelous job and Pakis too are good. They have a vetting system that checks image for echandee.

We employ buffoons with cameras . It is the camera that takes the picture but it is the man that gets a good shot and the developer/editor/photoshopper who decides what should be seen. We employ nincompoops in this area and what we get is trash. it is only the advent of people like Kedar Karmarkar and a few others who have make things a bit better apart from the usual pros - like Phil Camp and Simon Watson. Sorry to say that although Shiv Aroor has improved a lot and sometimes uses a better camera (as opposed to a cellphone) - his photography leaves a great deal to be desired. And the less said the better about self promoting wimmens and their photographic content.

Aaaaaaaahh. I needed to have that rant.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Jaeger » 11 May 2010 08:54

shiv wrote:But I have a broader and more general while about Indian media still camerapersons. They are just naive idiots. Nincompoops when it comes to selecting smart, flattering images of the forces. In Indian democrazee every baboon with zero photography skills gets access to places with things to be seen. And we get utter tripe. We get a photo of an LCA or Jaguar being pushed by 25 men with chappals. We get close ups showing peeling paint in scenes where that should be judiciously left out. This cheenkis do a marvelous job and Pakis too are good. They have a vetting system that checks image for echandee.


I agree completely. However, this still doesn't excuse the editors, both print and online, who approve images for publication. If they reject a few images, the photogs will learn - loss of income is the best way to teach them. But the editors themselves don't give a sh*t.

shiv wrote:We employ buffoons with cameras . It is the camera that takes the picture but it is the man that gets a good shot and the developer/editor/photoshopper who decides what should be seen. We employ nincompoops in this area and what we get is trash. it is only the advent of people like Kedar Karmarkar and a few others who have make things a bit better apart from the usual pros - like Phil Camp and Simon Watson. Sorry to say that although Shiv Aroor has improved a lot and sometimes uses a better camera (as opposed to a cellphone) - his photography leaves a great deal to be desired. And the less said the better about self promoting wimmens and their photographic content.

Aaaaaaaahh. I needed to have that rant.


Tell me about it :evil:

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 11 May 2010 09:05

One big difference I have noticed is that the media in the US, China or even Pak is no better as far as quality of reporting goes. However, when it comes to their armed forces they usually err on the positive side unlike us. I have been to airshows where the F15C is touted as the best thing since sliced bread. Same thing with the Pakis and the Bandaar. And just like our mango people, most people dont know the difference between a MiG 29 and a C130. However, most of what they hear is positive which makes them proud of their military. Most of what our junta hears is MiGs crashing and police atrocities, suicides and fratricide. No wonder people who dont know s*it openly bash the armed forces.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 24 May 2010 08:34

cross post:
Shameek wrote:However I do have a bone to pick with the media coverage:
1. NewsX already brings up that it is 20% heavier and also how the Comanache failed. I dont get the point of this. Cant we be positive for once!


Ages ago I had started an Indian piskology thread where these attitudes were meant to be shown up.

Nowadays it is much easier to discuss these things than at that time. In this day and age everyone on here at least understands how an entire nation (eg Pakistan) can suffer from a sort of mental illness because of education and history.

Indians educated in India have been taught that India is useless, and Indians are useless. For example an Indian would go to the UK in 1920 and return a few years later as an "FRCS" and he would be greatly admired - an admiration that was complemented by his own self image as an achiever par excellence, better than his local Indian peers. In my personal case I received far greater acclaim for my FRCS than my Indian MS, which actually taught me more and demanded more work. To be an Indian in India would be to accept a second rate life in a third rate country of lazy, slovenly people. Fighting against that was the hallmark of greatness. Believing that anything good can come out of India was a sign of a blinkered person, a "frog in a well" a typical Indian who knows nothing. The UK image was later replaced by the US with the US returnee believing that he was an example of competence that was unreachable by the Indian slob.

This mindset exists to this day. It blinds Indians to reality, and is augmented by the media power of the US. The medical drug company advertises its ware as "imported basic drug" or "Using German technology" or "Approved by FDA (of Yamerika)" and adds pictures of F16s on the brochure as a symbol of greatness of the medicine they are peddling. The media too meet people who are scathing of India. On the golf course I met a guy who saw me watching an LCA as it took off overhead. "Ah that's an F-18 isn't it?' he asked me. I told him no, its an Indian LCA. The look of disappointment was visible on his face and he was no longer interested in talking about it. "Oh that thing that has taken 25 years?"

Indians have low self image with high esteem of the West, especially UK and the US. Those Indians who acquire a part of the West acquire great self esteem for themselves. They see themselves as more competent and successful than their peers who remain in India. This is changing. But we have a billion people to change. :roll: In the meantime a lot of dubious people profit from these attitudes.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby rohitvats » 24 May 2010 12:21

Me too came across this attitude last friday. Was looking out of my office cafeteria window and enjoying LCH do couple of maneuvers. In comes one of senior guys in office and passes a comment - "I hope HAL had made it rain proof" (it was overcast that evening).

On further questioning, in comes the similar set of replies and answers. But this gentleman happens to be an engineer and has a fairly balanced head on his shoulders. On further probing (about the attitude to HAL and desi products), I was able to pin point the culprit -Indian print media. He had read about the LCH in news paper and identified it when he saw it the first time. But the crap which our newspapers print gives such a -ve image, that even educated people get swayed to other side.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Kartik » 24 May 2010 12:24

shiv wrote:cross post:
Shameek wrote:However I do have a bone to pick with the media coverage:
1. NewsX already brings up that it is 20% heavier and also how the Comanache failed. I dont get the point of this. Cant we be positive for once!


Ages ago I had started an Indian piskology thread where these attitudes were meant to be shown up.

Nowadays it is much easier to discuss these things than at that time. In this day and age everyone on here at least understands how an entire nation (eg Pakistan) can suffer from a sort of mental illness because of education and history.

Indians educated in India have been taught that India is useless, and Indians are useless. For example an Indian would go to the UK in 1920 and return a few years later as an "FRCS" and he would be greatly admired - an admiration that was complemented by his own self image as an achiever par excellence, better than his local Indian peers. In my personal case I received far greater acclaim for my FRCS than my Indian MS, which actually taught me more and demanded more work. To be an Indian in India would be to accept a second rate life in a third rate country of lazy, slovenly people. Fighting against that was the hallmark of greatness. Believing that anything good can come out of India was a sign of a blinkered person, a "frog in a well" a typical Indian who knows nothing. The UK image was later replaced by the US with the US returnee believing that he was an example of competence that was unreachable by the Indian slob.

This mindset exists to this day. It blinds Indians to reality, and is augmented by the media power of the US. The medical drug company advertises its ware as "imported basic drug" or "Using German technology" or "Approved by FDA (of Yamerika)" and adds pictures of F16s on the brochure as a symbol of greatness of the medicine they are peddling. The media too meet people who are scathing of India. On the golf course I met a guy who saw me watching an LCA as it took off overhead. "Ah that's an F-18 isn't it?' he asked me. I told him no, its an Indian LCA. The look of disappointment was visible on his face and he was no longer interested in talking about it. "Oh that thing that has taken 25 years?"

Indians have low self image with high esteem of the West, especially UK and the US. Those Indians who acquire a part of the West acquire great self esteem for themselves. They see themselves as more competent and successful than their peers who remain in India. This is changing. But we have a billion people to change. :roll: In the meantime a lot of dubious people profit from these attitudes.


wonderful post Shiv sir ! I hope that one day all us Indians can take pride in our own nation's products, and be more confident of ourselves as a people..the funny thing is that in the US, gora people look at Indians as being very competent folks. the day we realise that in our own country, maybe we may move ahead of this current mentality..do you think that our elementary school education system too should be upgraded or modified, emphasizing what we as a people are capable of ? I've always felt that our history and social studies emphasized things that contribute to what you've just described above.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Gaurav_S » 24 May 2010 15:51

IMHO, having positive attitude and confidence over desi tech is mostly limited to people like us on BR. The rest are simply not interested or just too ignorant to be knowledgeable enough about things happening beyond print and electronic media. This people will easily spend hours reading newspapers or switching news channels (which hardly serves any positive/real stuff due to mostly ddm's) but won't show any interest/respect for whatever achievement has been made. Wont even give up their seat and make extra effort to change wrong impression. This attitude applies to people in desh as well as bidesh. "If its Indian product must be faulty/badly designed" mentality exists everywhere. Largely it comes from our parents, society and keeps going on due to $hit quality of reporting.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 24 May 2010 20:22

^^^ Great inputs guys. Here is my experience with our media and the effects of their reporting:

Growing up in the 80's, the first two planes I heard about were the F-16 and the MiG 29. At school our huge library had just 2 books on aircraft. One was an American publication which had amazing pics of US aircraft and some grainy pics of Russian ones. The other book was IAF and its Aircraft (The golden jubilee one with the Jag on the cover). Guess which one got issued more? There were about 5 aircraft enthusiasts in a class of 120 and we would pour through old India Today (The issue with the 2 Mirage 2000s taking off on the cover was amazing), Time and Newsweek magazines trying to find aircraft pics and news. And it always was the same, glossy US aircraft and grainy russian ones.

During those days my uncle who worked at ADA sent me the first LCA colour pics. And they were amazing. But I never saw these in the media. Every media report on the LCA talked about problems and delays. Most people dont read much more than headlines when it comes to defence news. And guess what they remember about the LCA. Similarly there were multiple instances of media reports where Jaguars were called MiG 27 and MiG 29s were called Sukhois or vice versa.

Once cable TV came in it was more of the same. There were all these programs on Discovery which had great aerial footage of US aircraft. Every hollywood movie had American soldiers and pilots making mincemeat of the 'bad guys'. The gulf war showed all those shots of US planes taking of carriers and Tomahawk missiles being launched. So people who even casually watched this were in awe of western forces. People who couldnt tell a Boeing 747 from a Suryakiran knew about the Tomahawk!! At the same time, our media was reporting the whole 'flying coffin' saga with the MiG 21. The only time there was a slight shift in perception was when 'Border' came out and during the Kargil war.

Then of course with the Internet coming up and me becoming a lurker on BR for 8 years I found there were like minded people but the number was meagre. But even today I see more of the same. I know parents who will not send their kids into the armed forces because they believe we operate outdated and crappy equipment. Gaurav mentioned common people not having interest. That is not the case just in India. I was at an air show in the US where a man was proudly pointing out a B 52 to his kids and telling them it was a stealth bomber. The point I am trying to make is, the media in the US makes mistakes like our DDM, but more often than not they err on the positive side. So the common people in the US believe their armed forces have the best equipment in the world.

I dont mean to say the media should delude the public like the Pakis. But they need to start showing the armed forces and our equipment in a more positive light. And that is where I was a little disappointed with the LCH coverage. The reporter ended up asking him about Rambo!! So the first reference of the gunship he could think of was a 20 year old hollywood movie. Why not ask about the MFDs in the helicopter or its countermeasures suite? Why not ask about relevant IAF gunship operations in Sri Lanka or Kargil?

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Jaeger » 25 May 2010 11:26

The thing is, at some level people themselves need to get involved and interested. I can imagine my pucca gujju uncle sitting Baroda switching the channel as soon as the report came up, and moving to either the sports or business channels. He really couldn't care less - I mean, what's the USE?

The thing is, for most of us here railing against the DDM and defence coverage, the LCH and LCA and MKIs are all parts of a passion. There are a few of us who are directly involved in that world, but most of us aren't - we're doctors, IT professionals, students etc. for us, all of this is something more that we have had the opportunity, the time and the resources to indulge in. From personal experience (which is a VERY TINY sample size and statistically insignificant, I agree) if something is not perceived as guaranteeing either: 1. good money or 2. respect/"social standing", then it is categorised as a foolishness only fit for children. Even today I am asked: "Arre tane aa badda vaat ma interest che to pilot kem na banigayo?" So if I didn't become a pilot and make money off it, then why am I getting into this?

The long and short of it is: a lot of people see defense tech, aviation and associated topics as unimportant if you're not in the industry. "And if people's attitudes are like that", (thinks the press) "then why should we break our heads trying to understand what's happening? It's not like people are dying to know. And anyway, some wannabe actor has just slapped another wannabe and people LOVE that..." :)

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby svinayak » 25 May 2010 12:06

Shameek wrote:One big difference I have noticed is that the media in the US, China or even Pak is no better as far as quality of reporting goes. However, when it comes to their armed forces they usually err on the positive side unlike us.

Using negative perception in the Indian media, Indian public for the last 30 years have been given the image of weak nation, weak govt to tackle any major threats.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 26 May 2010 02:48

Like I mentioned before it is unreal to expect every common man to have an interest in defence issues. And that is why I do not expect the media to correctly report everything. However they could make mistakes on the positive side and not the negative. Let me give some examples.

When the first Su-30 crashed, there were two ways of reporting it.
1: "After 12 years of fault free service, there has been a terrible mishap with the SU-30".
V/S
2: "Another IAF jet goes down. Pilot killed"

Think of the impression the people get reading one v/s the other.

Similarly when a new product is released why not have a nice and big colour pic in the papers saying "India's new Combat helicopter unveiled".
Even if someone does not read one word of the report, the pic will stay in their minds.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby AdityaM » 26 May 2010 10:04

Where are the promised pics of Arihant?
i donot see any such declaration on Mohtarmas blog either. :(

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 26 May 2010 14:10

AdityaM wrote:Where are the promised pics of Arihant?
i donot see any such declaration on Mohtarmas blog either. :(


Arihant Photos - visible with pwd

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby AdityaM » 28 May 2010 16:19

:(( :((

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby sumeet_s » 28 May 2010 17:40

shiv wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Where are the promised pics of Arihant?
i donot see any such declaration on Mohtarmas blog either. :(


Arihant Photos - visible with pwd



hahaha...the sub seems to be in deep waters

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 15 Jun 2010 23:03

SHornet springs up on the Aero India 2011 official poster. :roll:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/super-hornet-springs-up-in-aeroindia.html

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 16 Jun 2010 06:08

Shameek wrote:SHornet springs up on the Aero India 2011 official poster. :roll:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/super-hornet-springs-up-in-aeroindia.html


Why do I feel that this is another media graphic designer cock-up like Paki army chief in an Indian poster? I believe we employ a bunch of profound morons - both to lead and as followers.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 16 Jun 2010 06:24

shiv wrote:Why do I feel that this is another media graphic designer cock-up like Paki army chief in an Indian poster? I believe we employ a bunch of profound morons - both to lead and as followers.


It's almost like they have never heard of google or any such search engine. I believe a simple search will tell anyone who has been living under a rock in the desert that the LCA Tejas and LCH are the hot news in Indian aviation. Really shoddy stuff. And free publicity for Boeing of course.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Jagan » 16 Jun 2010 06:40

Shameek wrote: There were about 5 aircraft enthusiasts in a class of 120 and we would pour through old India Today (The issue with the 2 Mirage 2000s taking off on the cover was amazing),


Hey Shameek ,you must be OLD :mrgreen: Welcome to the old geezers defence club (shiv is the prez, i am the secy)

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby NRao » 16 Jun 2010 07:48

Jagan wrote:
Shameek wrote: There were about 5 aircraft enthusiasts in a class of 120 and we would pour through old India Today (The issue with the 2 Mirage 2000s taking off on the cover was amazing),


Hey Shameek ,you must be OLD :mrgreen: Welcome to the old geezers defence club (shiv is the prez, i am the secy)


Yeah, the one club that gives out walking sticks for the 5th anniversary. Wooden stick to be clear.

I was informed that red tape has gobbled up mine!!

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 16 Jun 2010 09:09

Jagan wrote:Hey Shameek ,you must be OLD Welcome to the old geezers defence club (shiv is the prez, i am the secy)


Jagan saar, while I certainly cannot compete for seniority with you or Shiv saar I realise I probably am above the average age on BR today! :wink:

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Sanku » 16 Jun 2010 10:08

Shameek wrote:
shiv wrote:Why do I feel that this is another media graphic designer cock-up like Paki army chief in an Indian poster? I believe we employ a bunch of profound morons - both to lead and as followers.


It's almost like they have never heard of google or any such search engine. I believe a simple search will tell anyone who has been living under a rock in the desert that the LCA Tejas and LCH are the hot news in Indian aviation. Really shoddy stuff. And free publicity for Boeing of course.


Free publicity to Boeing?

Just like Col Shukla going to a Boeing plant to say that Il 76 serviceability was 25% (and of course no formal word on it though CAG raised cain on An 32 at 50%)

You guys are way too generous.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Shameek » 26 Jun 2010 20:49

Cross Posting from the China military thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuW7JzF1dSs&feature=fvw

This is the sort of media boost we need for the common people. The people who are not interested in details but will watch it just for the visual treat. Most people will watch anything with a catchy tune and big explosions. They may not know any of the equipment shown but look at the popularity of action movies. True jingoes like us at BR will smirk at this, but the common person gets a feeling of pride and hopefully confidence that the Indian armed forces can kick a$$ anytime they are called into action.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby David Siegel » 02 Jul 2010 08:27

Today I had a nasty experience of facing a hacked site. I visited IDRW org site to check if any defence update is there and found it is hacked by some 'Team Error Net'- looks like a chinese / porki invasion :evil: :evil: :evil:

Not sure if this is right thread to post this info- but just wanted to share with you all.

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby chiragAS » 18 Jul 2010 16:27

India's submarine purchase plans and the way west looks. (atleast the way this reporter looks at :D)
This fellow has painted India as not friendly nation to the west...
as if after aquiring AIP India would go bombing the world :D

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/14 ... sub_order/

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby Kanan » 18 Jul 2010 21:48

chiragAS wrote:India's submarine purchase plans and the way west looks. (atleast the way this reporter looks at :D)
This fellow has painted India as not friendly nation to the west...
as if after aquiring AIP India would go bombing the world :D

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/14 ... sub_order/



East-o-phobia...................???? :lol: Good read though.....! :D

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Re: Military Media Watch Thread

Postby shiv » 08 Jan 2011 19:22



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