PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Baldev » 31 Jan 2011 06:58

PAK FA
# Length: 19.8 m (65.9 ft)
# Wingspan: 14 m (46.6 ft)
# Height: 6.05 m (19.8 ft)

MIG 29K
# Length: 17.3 m (57.76 ft)
# Wingspan: 11.99 m (39.34 ft)
# Height: 4.40 m (14.44 ft)

If naval version of PAK FA is build which is highly likely,single naval PAK FA will do the work of 2 mig29ks for air to air role because of its speed and stealth and this will compensate for its higher dimensions.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SaiK » 31 Jan 2011 07:58

So a squadron could be made of 12 twin seat fgfas then?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Singha » 31 Jan 2011 08:13

imo the pakfa undercarriage already looks tough enough for rough field ops. adapting and testing it for carrier ops will not be tough.

but folding wing will be required. and perhaps a folding nosecone to save space in parking hanger.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby babbupandey » 31 Jan 2011 08:46

SaiK wrote:http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110128/162357069.html
pak-fa for bra-seal.

Soooo, is it going to be Russo-Indo-Brazilian venture? Looks highly unlikely that India will be comfortable having a third partner.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby caesar » 31 Jan 2011 11:19


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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby chackojoseph » 31 Jan 2011 11:30


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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby babbupandey » 31 Jan 2011 11:36

chackojoseph wrote:With own 5G jet plan, India 'rejects' US offer

Rajat Pandt, TOI


Thankfully Mr. Pandit did not publish the tripe he is so famous for.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Philip » 31 Jan 2011 11:46

This is an insidious attempt to scuttle the Indo-Russian JV for the FGFA,plus engineer a method by which only a US bird is chosen for the MMRCA.IN any case the JSF is already becoming far too exoensive evn for the US and its allies at $130m a piece at last count,and doubts are being expressed whether it can deliver the goods vis-a-vis the FGFA and J-20.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sumshyam » 01 Feb 2011 22:12

From KyePublishing

Some assertions from the documentary:

- Work on "second stage" engine(featured with a increased thrust, stealthy nozzles etc.) for PAK-FA should be started in 2011 with consolidation of whole Russia's engine manufacturing industry

- PAK-FA maneuverability capabilities should be significantly better compared to 4th generation fighter jets

- Self-diagnose systems in most critical parts and components of an aircraft

- A widely usage of advanced composite materials. PAK-FA's airframe has four times less parts compared to Su-27(T-10) series aircraft

- VVS (air force) is planning to finish preliminary fighter jet by 2012 and general trials by 2015

- More than 50 aircraft are planned for the first PAK-FA procurement party

- Russia's Ministry of Defense put higher requirements on PAK-FA program than Americans had put into their 5th-generation fighter jet program (more likely they refered to F-22 program)

- Second flying prototype was built in the end of 2010, then also two prototypes should be build in 2011

- First flying prototype is equipped with a most of 5th generation navigation an indication systems that were developed for PAK-FA program

- Third and fourth aircraft should be equipped with a full electronics package required by Ministry of Defense (it could be interpreted as radars, weapon systems, IRST, ECM...)

- One PAK-FA should be approximately equal in combat to three 4++ generation fighter jets

- Stealth capability was a primary requirement in design and research(airframe, materials etc.). But these 16 test flights(the number of flights up to June 2010) of the T-50-1 were nothing to do with a trials of stealth technology.

- PAK-FA would get new generation of air-air missiles (R-77 and R-73 successors more likely) that also incudes ultra-long range missile (~400 km range, the R-73 successor) in its compartments (internal bays).

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sumshyam » 01 Feb 2011 22:15

chackojoseph wrote:With own 5G jet plan, India 'rejects' US offer

Rajat Pandt, TOI


Over and above this, each of the 250-300 FGFA India hopes to begin inducting from 2020 onwards will cost around $100 million each. In all, India will spend upwards of $35 billion over the next two decades in its biggest-ever defence project till now.

"Its complete design will be frozen by the end of the 18-month PDC. Six to seven of its prototypes should be flying by 2017. After that, there will be 2,500 hours of flight-testing over 25 months before the series production begins in 2019,'' he said.


isn't that LATE?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby VishalJ » 04 Feb 2011 13:22

Image

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Gaur » 04 Feb 2011 13:27

^^
Wow! This is the most amazing PAK-FA pic that I have seen. Thanks a lot for posting! :D

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Philip » 04 Feb 2011 14:24

Magnifique!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby VishalJ » 04 Feb 2011 15:01

^ Yes it is!

Man i just want to get anywhere within .2/3 miles of this thing & drill it Heavy Duty! Image

Thinking about saving-up for MAKS Airshow Moscow ✈ http://www.maks2011.com/ where i'm assuming it may perform :-?

Anyone of you game for it?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Feb 2011 15:56

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Thinking about saving-up for MAKS Airshow Moscow ✈ http://www.maks2011.com/ where i'm assuming it may perform :-?

Anyone of you game for it?


How much funding is needed in INR ?

This MAKS they are displaying PAK-FA and new Shuttle Design

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby VishalJ » 04 Feb 2011 16:22

Austin wrote:
Vishal Jolapara wrote:Thinking about saving-up for MAKS Airshow Moscow ✈ http://www.maks2011.com/ where i'm assuming it may perform :-?

Anyone of you game for it?

How much funding is needed in INR ?

This MAKS they are displaying PAK-FA and new Shuttle Design

Well, looking-up http://www.Cleartrip.com:
Departing Sunday, Aug 14th 2011 & Arriving next Sunday Aug 21st

BOM ✈ DOH ✈ DME & back on Qatar ✈ Rs.39k/-

Plus Hotel, Vegetarian food (for me) & other misc costs will peg the kharcha at a bare minimum of Ek Peti!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby neerajb » 04 Feb 2011 16:25

@Vishal

Please share the cost part if you have done research on this. This year my vacation calender is free, I would like to go there if my pocket permits and if there are no other commitments.

Cheers....

P.S. Thanks for the info.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby tsarkar » 04 Feb 2011 16:34

^^ If you blokes wait 10 more years, then your tax money will have by then ensured regular displays at Republic Day & other events

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sumshyam » 05 Feb 2011 19:58



Two different Engine...?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Gaur » 05 Feb 2011 20:25

^^
Why do you think so? Because one seems larger than other? If so, then that is merely an optical illusion because of the strange angle. Or did you notice any other difference?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby krishnan » 05 Feb 2011 20:40

Nozzle of the left looks bigger than the one on the right :?:

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 05 Feb 2011 21:07

Vishal Jolapara wrote:This MAKS they are displaying PAK-FA and new Shuttle Design
Well, looking-up http://www.Cleartrip.com:
Departing Sunday, Aug 14th 2011 & Arriving next Sunday Aug 21st

BOM ✈ DOH ✈ DME & back on Qatar ✈ Rs.39k/-

Plus Hotel, Vegetarian food (for me) & other misc costs will peg the kharcha at a bare minimum of Ek Peti!


Thanks , Ek Peti I think its probably on the higher side ..I am doing my own math on this wait till AI gets done.

I have heard of places out there think the Kalashnikov museum where you can visit and can fire all the AK series , would love to try my hand on AK and INSAS series , think the latter is not possible though.

^^ If you blokes wait 10 more years, then your tax money will have by then ensured regular displays at Republic Day & other events


Sarkar sahab you have a point but if the Netas could get even 1/10 of our tax payers money from Swiss banks many poor in this country would get their two meals and we can do many good for our country.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 05 Feb 2011 21:11

Ok FGFA/PAK-FA fans some update on the bird from Air International by Piotr Butowski

Russian Supercruiser
Piotr Butowski

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sumshyam » 05 Feb 2011 21:42

Gaur wrote:^^
Why do you think so? Because one seems larger than other? If so, then that is merely an optical illusion because of the strange angle. Or did you notice any other difference?


It seems to be longer and having larger diameter....atleast to my eyes..!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby shiv » 05 Feb 2011 21:54

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Image


I think this image may be photoshopped.
  • No evidence of afterburner flame
  • bottom of nosewheel looks flat - like an image of a plane at rest on the ground copy pasted into sky
  • Tailfins deviated - which is odd
  • The difference in sizes of the nozzles is another suspicious thing although the J-20 appears to have done the same thing. But the J-20 did a flat non after burner take off. Not a 45 degree takeoff.

Check this image
http://i026.radikal.ru/1012/ac/cec625b696f5.jpg

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby shiv » 05 Feb 2011 22:15

well - this image shows a similar discrepancy
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/505 ... 8853_z.jpg

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sumshyam » 05 Feb 2011 23:03

Austin wrote:Ok FGFA/PAK-FA fans some update on the bird from Air International by Piotr Butowski

Russian Supercruiser
Piotr Butowski



It says that Sukhoi Design team insists that no rear looking radar is planned for PAK-FA.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 05 Feb 2011 23:47

It says that Sukhoi Design team insists that no rear looking radar is planned for PAK-FA.


Good to know. But, just to be sure, that should be no reflection on the FGFA/PMF (Perspective Multi-role Fighter).

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SaiK » 06 Feb 2011 04:56

They have a big tail there! It can easily hold an array of 300 to 350 t/rs!
Last edited by SaiK on 06 Feb 2011 05:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 06 Feb 2011 05:16

You need a "requirement" to allocate funds for such efforts. Then pay for each plane on the back side.

Now, how many PAK-FAs did Russia say they will buy?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SaiK » 06 Feb 2011 05:33

200-250 is what I read sometime back for the russkies, and for us 250-300 in numbers.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 06 Feb 2011 05:54

: ). Let us circle back on that figure in about 6 years.

I would make sure that the funding for the "5th Gen" engine does not dry up. I feel that is THE missing tech for the PAK-FA.

The FGFA can have a separate effort - IF NEED BE - to install a rear facing AESA.

I am not sure, but would the proposed architecture (on including radars in leading edges of wings, etc) not suffice? What would be THE purpose to think about a rear facing radar? We had gone through this with the MKI too!!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Feb 2011 16:22


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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SriSri » 10 Feb 2011 04:18

Last edited by SriSri on 10 Feb 2011 08:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby tejas » 10 Feb 2011 06:14

Its actually Prospective not perspective. The misnomer is the result of an incorrect translation of Russian into English by MoD baboo(n)s.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Feb 2011 09:18

It is "perspective."

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby tejas » 10 Feb 2011 09:36

Chacko boss, I got this info from a Russian author and I will have to search for the link. A "perspective" fighter makes no sense.


PS. The info is actually in the link Austin posted in this thread from Flight International by author Piotr Butowski.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 10 Feb 2011 18:03

Russian-Indian joint development of 5G fighter jet to cost $6 billion - HAL

"A detailed design phase, including the cost of the project, is likely to cost more than $6 billion," Shivamurti said. "The work between us and them [India and Russia] will be distributed in a 35/65 proportion."

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Feb 2011 18:35

Tejas Sir,

It is perspective. It is yet to be prospective.

Perspective(from Latin perspicere, to see through) in the graphic arts, such as drawing, is an approximate representation, on a flat surface (such as paper), of an image as it is seen by the eye. The two most characteristic features of perspective are that objects are drawn:


They are still on the perspective stage.

I had considered prospective too.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2011 19:32

NIIP AESA Ready for Test Flight ( via TakeOff Magazine )

link


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