PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Mar 2011 22:56

Austin wrote:Gaur , point taken
They need to ask the Brits to open a file on that

Same UFO which flew over Lanka ?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 05 Mar 2011 04:04

abhik wrote:What's that small spherical glassy thing behind the cockpit? sensor? light? I suppose its new.

Optical datalink?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Mar 2011 04:48

To satisfy rearward OLS-50 needs? there should be one on the bottom too perhaps to get a 360* coverage.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 05 Mar 2011 13:33

Visual Differences in T-50-2
http://i55.tinypic.com/2euokqw.jpg
From Paralay boards.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 09 Mar 2011 18:49

Has any information emerged as to what will we be contributing and what will we be gaining out of spending billions of $$?

Or, are we being had...again. I sure hope the lessons learnt on the stealth aspect are applied to the AMCA and improved upon and that it has the effect of lessening the timelines of home driven program.

Let’s hope for the best.

kit · Post by **kit** » 09 Mar 2011 19:05

Can a guru please enlighten on the foreground and background IPR ? .. on what reference of point in time is this foreground and background made ? Would it be a excuse for the Russians to play hard ball with even further billions ?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Mar 2011 21:47

Articles state that the FGFA effort is based on the Brahmos model. As the FGFA is a LOT more complex, this model should be a great deal more complex too.

However, seems to me that India took a long time to negotiate for the FGFA. And, my suspicion is that India - based on her experience with the MKI, Gorsh, perhaps even T-90, and Brahmos (seems to have on-going problems WRT exports) - have managed to make the "agreement" a lot more granular. There are a lot of assumptions on my part, but I think it is fairly safe to make that statement.

Which is why I have always said that even the FGFA will not be something that India will be happy with. The FGFA - like the MKI - will be bound by some clause or the other (mostly those that surface to rain on the party). But that - IMHO - is to be expected.

I still say AMCA - whatever that beast will be. It will be salvation. It should be.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Mar 2011 22:18

.self deleted.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 Mar 2011 22:20

@^^
wrong thread?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Mar 2011 09:08

Shifted to AMCA thread. ---- Thanks karan

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 10 Mar 2011 11:19

@ chackojoseph , wrong thread . we have a AMCA Thread too

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2011 14:39

2nd Prototype Flight more photos

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events ... t-50-2.wbp

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Mar 2011 18:35

What would be the area of cross section on the nose for the radar? any guesstimates on the number of T/Rs it can take up?

venku_Raj · Post by **venku_Raj** » 15 Mar 2011 09:58

Fifth-gen fighter PAK FA goes supersonic

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 24 Mar 2011 06:40

More here > http://russianplanes.net/EN/ST/Sukhoi/T-50
and here > http://www.spotters.net.ua/search/?aircraft=Sukhoi+T-50&

Megh · Post by **Megh** » 05 Apr 2011 00:23

Second prototype T-50 has arrived yesterday at Zhukovsky.
Link

paultd · Post by **paultd** » 10 Apr 2011 18:00

Russian Air Force plans to acquire over 60 T-50s after 2015
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/russia ... oi-pak-fa/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2011 19:23

india should proactively initiate the development of thin AAM sized or 2X aam sized SDB weapons which can go within the weapons bays of the PAKFA - perhaps 2 in each bay for a total of 4 long weapons for 4 stubby ones for a total of 8. stealth shape, folding range extention kit, glonass guidance (A2SM style), IIR and laser seekers for terminal accuracy.

its not a easy task so might as well parallelize this with Sudarshan work.

also evaluate the OLS50 early and if not found upto the mark, go our own way with indo-israeli project for a new IRST perhaps equip the Tejas mk2 also with a smaller version. a rafale style LLTV camera beside the OLS might also be of some use - though I am not sure exactly what - but sure looks cooler and deadlier

complete 360' spherical MAWS and laser defence against AAMs is also a must - again stuff we must look at early to see what Rus is planning and initiate remedies if needed.

this is one plane where we cannot let sher khan or chini products with weaker airframes crow about sensor advantages.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Apr 2011 21:17

............. Self deleted ............

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Apr 2011 02:57

Any good pics of internal weapon bay and its config on the pakfa?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Apr 2011 10:36

no internal pics of those bays released yes. all we have are drawings by "Paralay" who is a pvt enthusiast.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Apr 2011 19:43

Excerpts from UAC Chief Interview Mikhail Pogosyan

RT: What impact will the arrival of the fifth generation of fighter jets have on the concept of military action in the air?

MP: I'm sure it will have a serious impact, since the fifth generation of jets will have a new level of stealth, and higher military capacities and range for air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. These jets will be able to fight the enemy while staying out of the killing zone. I'm sure that the introduction of fifth-generation jets will also improve the performance of fourth-generation jets which will perform within the same group of jets. I think that the demand for new advanced jets will not only open the market for the fifth-generation jets, but will also extend the lifetime of the fourth-generation jets via new modifications, because mixed jet groups of these two kinds will have a very high performance level.

RT: So, fifth-generation jets – are they produced entirely in Russia, or are there still some parts or some technology that you import?

MP: Those jets that are now being tested are 100 per cent produced in Russia. But in view of the international nature of our program, we signed a contract with India in December, we'll co-operate on conceptual design with them, and this obviously will result in the fact that at some stages some non-domestic equipment will be involved. I think that this is quite in line with the spirit of the times, and I'm sure that we'll find ways of co-operation with our overseas suppliers which will allow us to guarantee that the tasks set by the customer are completed. There's nothing wrong with this. We're making our aircraft, both civil and military, not only for the domestic market, but for the international market, too. And this makes us look for the best solutions which would meet all the tough requirements set by customers.

RT: You mentioned a contract signed with India on a fifth-generation fighter jet project, while there are reports saying that China is planning to produce an exact copy of the Russian fighter jet – is that true, and if so, were you taking into account such a competitor?

MP: There have been some reports recently in the media saying that China has started testing its own fighter jet of the fifth generation. This probably means that the investment made and the goals set by the Chinese aircraft industry cover not only civil aircraft manufacturing, but fifth-generation jets as well. So I think it'll make our life more interesting. Competition always makes you develop further, be more active.

RT: Could you perhaps expand a bit more – how would the market react, should a Chinese fighter jet emerge?

MP: Making such complex products as fifth-generation fighter jets is a very complicated and time-consuming business. I think that the market will react to the products it's offered. I think that we are quite ready to compete with our overseas partners, and this applies to competing both with the most advanced American aircraft, and with the new projects by our Chinese colleagues. I do not think that we will lose our position on the market. Our goal is to convince the market of the advantages of the aircraft we're developing together with our Indian partners.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 10 May 2011 05:16

I'm shelving plans of the tentative Trip to Roos http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1023974 as:

1. Pak-Pha wont be doing any Udaan Pradarshan - http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ow-ai.html

2. Lack of Saathidaars to share the Atyadhik Kharch

zaalim garibi

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 May 2011 10:52

Thats a good decision , flying PAK-FA or ground display by prototypes will delay and disturb the flight testing schedule and considering they have not opened up the envelop the display would be nothing better then what we have watched so far.

MAKS will still be interesting they will be showing the Tu-204SM , flying display by Superjet and Su-35 ,An-158 and Airbus A-380 hopefully we get to know more about MTA

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 May 2011 17:26

For the lean mean AAMs and ASMs, CL20 fuel perhaps could be a choice.

siddharthas · Post by **siddharthas** » 10 May 2011 19:34

Not been following this thread completely , but from what i understand the development and design is happening primarily in russia. How is India taking part in it. I would've assumed there would be some major inputs by DRDO or HAL by now. But can't find anything which says so.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 10 May 2011 20:15

Hey guys,

after looking at the drawings and the actual aircraft, can somebody tell me in absolute certainty that T-50 has canards?

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 10 May 2011 21:39

^^^ They are LEVCONS (leading edge vortex controllers) just like Tejas Navy (but bigger).

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 11 May 2011 07:05

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ow-ai.html

UPDATE: Crisis averted! I am reliably informed the T-50 prototype will make an appearance at the MAKS air show in August.
The aircraft has been noticed in advertisements for MAKS under the slogan "every time a premier", implying the T-50 will be this year's star attraction.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 11 May 2011 16:14

We have till date seen a preponderance of literature on what will be the effect of a 5th gen fighter in a battlefield filled with 4/4.5/4+ generation fighter. But till date we have not seen the possible impact when J-20 goes against F-22/F-35 or J-20 goes up against T-50/AMCA. Would love to get hands on such studies and analysis.

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 12 May 2011 10:15

== SELF DELETE== Gonna post it in AMCA

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 12 May 2011 12:14

Gurneesh wrote:^^^ They are LEVCONS (leading edge vortex controllers) just like Tejas Navy (but bigger).

That burst my bubble, now I'm depressed. I thought the Russians added canards without sacrificing stealth. Tri wing Stealth fighter with 3d TVC would have been a beauty to behold.

manum · Post by **manum** » 12 May 2011 12:20

a detached wing surface, adding discontinuity to homogeneity of body shape from below reflection is a bad idea for stealth...So there was no chance of canards in a stealth fighter...EF has software controlled canards for the same reasons...

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 12 May 2011 12:34

^^

True enough, I was originally thinking that until I saw the CAD pictures and the LEVCON shape that made me think it was a Canard that was flush with the wing, thereby not sacrificing stealth, but now that I think of it, if that truly was a Canards, the PAKFA would have became a huge blip on the radar if the LEVCONS did not stay flush.

A dude on PAKDEF said that the PAKFA had LERX, would somebody be able to clarify to me the advantages and disadvantages of Candards vs. LERX vs. LEVCONS?

much appreciated as always, kind regards

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 May 2011 10:49

VIDEO: PAK-FA needs advanced composites. Can Russia make them?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 May 2011 10:49

PAK-FA: IDA's unclassified analysis now online

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 18 May 2011 11:13

^^
Austin ji,
The article has been removed from scribd by the user. However, if you come across another link then please give us a nudge here.
Thanks.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 May 2011 11:59

Gaur , check the link its out there , I can read the article , you can always use full screen for better viewing.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 May 2011 13:36

UPDATE 2: Steeljaw Scribe has removed the brief from Scribd. As the brief is now firmly in the public domain, with probably dozens -- if not hundreds -- of downloads, I'm reposting my own copy here using Apture's embed tool. (Be patient if it takes a minute or two to upload the first time.)

jai · Post by **jai** » 18 May 2011 13:51

Its not allowing a down load but can be read online easily on full screen. Good information on the project - including use of Plasma to break missile lock, weapons etc.

Austin ji, thanks for sharing this !!