PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Post Reply
Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 279
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Avinandan »

nits wrote:
China 100+ units by 2025-2035??? :eek:


If its a joint devlopment; buyer should be mutually agreed to both countries unlike Brahmos... No ?? Also china is devloping its own 5 -Gen Fighter... Link
Again would like to reiterate nits question to gurus here. What is the use of India as a partner if China is going to buy it and reverse engg it in the long run? :evil:

I believe that even if China is developing its own 5-Gen fighter, it would leave no stone unturned to take a peek into PAK-FA and reverse engg if possible.
SriSri
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 15:25

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SriSri »

Avinandan wrote:Again would like to reiterate nits question to gurus here. What is the use of India as a partner if China is going to buy it and reverse engg it in the long run? :evil:

I believe that even if China is developing its own 5-Gen fighter, it would leave no stone unturned to take a peek into PAK-FA and reverse engg if possible.
What's the alternative? We can't sit back and not have a 5th Gen fighter program. We can't do it on our own (at least this is the assessment of those currently in-charge).

We pair up with Russia on the PAK-FA program. Will China eventually buy it from Russia (or a third country Russia has sold it to)? Probably yeah. Hopefully when that happens, we will be a little bit ahead of the curve.
Kanson
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3065
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 21:00

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Kanson »

Avinandan wrote: Again would like to reiterate nits question to gurus here. What is the use of India as a partner if China is going to buy it and reverse engg it in the long run? :evil:

I believe that even if China is developing its own 5-Gen fighter, it would leave no stone unturned to take a peek into PAK-FA and reverse engg if possible.
According to experts of the Center for Analysis of the Global Arms Trade, it is planned to build at least a thousand of these aircraft.
It is just a forecast...simply identifying *potential* buyers. Whether they eventually turn out to be buyers is anyone's guess.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9119
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by nachiket »

^^Also panda is building its own 5th gen fighter. Buying from Russians would be serious blow to echandee.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Singha »

^^the probably would not mind a 'clone' of the 5th gen salyut engine though.
SriSri
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 15:25

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SriSri »

nachiket wrote:^^Also panda is building its own 5th gen fighter. Buying from Russians would be serious blow to echandee.
I think it will be safe to assume that China will eventually get its hands on at least the export variant of the PAK-FA. If not directly from Russia then from a third country say Venezuela or some other left-leaning state. There's nothing we can do about it, except of course stay ahead in terms of technological capacity.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Austin »

The chinese have not really done a good job with the basic Su-27 Flanker , the reverse engineered version as the word goes does not come to to basic flanker standards , it is possible that at some point in the future they will get better with it.

Its highly unlikey that Chinese will get their hands on PAK-FA atleast for the next 15 - 20 years and some export model will be downgraded stuff and advanced bloack variant of PAK-FA will be flying in the next 15 years.

The Russian certainly will be cautious and will make sure reverse engineering will be much more harder task to achieve for advanced fighters in export market.

Perhaps after 20 years PAK-FA will not be the greatest kid in the block with UCAV /Lasers on the cards.
SriSri
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 15:25

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SriSri »

Austin wrote:Perhaps after 20 years PAK-FA will not be the greatest kid in the block with UCAV /Lasers on the cards.
+1 Fully agree!

..and we are focusing on UCAVs.
P Chitkara
BRFite
Posts: 355
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 08:09

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by P Chitkara »

After the J-11 episode, one would assume ruskies will be more cautious vis-s-vis panda.

But, the possibility of panda getting it's hands on PAK-FA will be very real by 2025-2030 timeframe. Means dont count when it comes to panda.

How much will they be able to get out of it will remain to be seen.
manum
BRFite
Posts: 604
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 15:32
Location: still settling...
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by manum »

But, the possibility of panda getting it's hands on PAK-FA will be very real by 2025-2030 timeframe.
let them get juice out of su-27 first...then PAKFA no.'ll arrive...2025-30??...then few more years to reverse it...thats insane...
and living on secondary leftover maal all your life thats more insane...
P Chitkara
BRFite
Posts: 355
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 08:09

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by P Chitkara »

That is the reason I said
How much will they be able to get out of it will remain to be seen.
sumshyam
BRFite
Posts: 552
Joined: 23 Sep 2009 19:30
Location: Ganga ki dharti.
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sumshyam »

Some blah blah from Strategy Page
While the T-50 is the stealthiest aircraft the Russians have, it is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22, or even the F-35 or B-2. The Russians are apparently going to emphasize maneuverability instead of stealth. But they are having problems perfecting the engines for the T-50, and the defensive electronics. This puts the T-50 at a big disadvantage against the F-22 or F-35, which try to detect enemy aircraft at long distance, without being spotted, and then fire a radar guided missile (like AMRAAM).
sumshyam
BRFite
Posts: 552
Joined: 23 Sep 2009 19:30
Location: Ganga ki dharti.
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sumshyam »

Image
Image
vic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by vic »

I hope that the infrastrucutre that would be set up at HAL for production of T-50 will be atleast for 500 aircraft rather than for only 250 aircraft. Otherwise will not be able to serve additional demand from IAF and will also not be able to participate in exports.

When we already setting up infrastructure for 250 then increasing it to 500 will not cost much at initial stage but later it will be difficult
sumshyam
BRFite
Posts: 552
Joined: 23 Sep 2009 19:30
Location: Ganga ki dharti.
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sumshyam »

vic wrote:I hope that the infrastrucutre that would be set up at HAL for production of T-50 will be atleast for 500 aircraft rather than for only 250 aircraft. Otherwise will not be able to serve additional demand from IAF and will also not be able to participate in exports.

When we already setting up infrastructure for 250 then increasing it to 500 will not cost much at initial stage but later it will be difficult
How can infrastructure for production of 500 aircraft would be different from that for 250 aircraft...!

Are you pointing at inventory or expecting an increased production rate....?
manum
BRFite
Posts: 604
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 15:32
Location: still settling...
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by manum »

may be he is pointing towards human resource than inventory...so inventory supplementing the increased no. of people...
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19236
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by NRao »

Any discussions or reports on if FGFA would be designed ground up to host the Brahmos? IF so, 1/2/3? Granted it will not be hidden and its implications.

TIA.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12257
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Pratyush »

Guys, why do we want to put a brahmos one every thing that flies :twisted:
manum
BRFite
Posts: 604
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 15:32
Location: still settling...
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by manum »

it's rare combination of bigger, faster and stealthier....well dream combo for boys... :twisted:
Spartak
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Jul 2010 14:43

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Spartak »

A couple of new interesting photos from Paralay's site...


Image

unfortunately the interesting bit is blurry but note what looks like narrow intakes (circled)
Image
Mukesh.Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 1244
Joined: 06 Dec 2009 14:09

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by karan_mc »

Russian Navy to get fifth generation carrier fighter after 2020
The appearance of a fifth generation fighter in Russian naval aviation will not happen before 2020, the outgoing head of the air forces and air defense forces of the Russian Navy, Lt. General Valery Uvarov told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

Previously, representatives of the armed forces command and Defense Ministry had said a new naval fighter based on the Sukhoi T.50 design could enter service around 2016.

“It’s difficult to say when this aircraft will enter naval service. First it will go into service with the air force, and then be ‘navalised.’ To build a new aircraft from scratch costs huge money, it’s irrational and not competent. Conditions might be suitable by 2020,” he said.

Uvarov stressed, however, that any new naval fighter would enter service only following a competition in which other designs would participate, including from the MiG, Yakovlev and Sukhoi design bureaus.

A new generation carrier fighter should enter service with the fleet not long before any new aircraft carrier on which it would be based, Uvarov said, so pilots would be ready. “The aircraft should come before a ship entering service, so pilots can train first on land, then on a special training area, then on deck,” he said.

He stressed that the service was still waiting to take delivery of the naval MiG-29K, which is being exported to India.

“The first two MiG-29Ks will soon be purchased in order to carry out development of their functions,” he said. “I think there should be two squadrons, that is 24 MiG-29Ks and one squadron of Su-33s.”

The Russian navy is currently reforming its structure, with naval air forces and naval air defense being merged into one branch. Lt. General Uvarov is leaving his post as commander of both branches.
http://idrw.org/?p=1116

So naval NGFA will take more time for Indian navy ,did ever Indian navy shown interest in T-50 yet ?
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Juggi G »

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Austin »

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5283
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by srai »

karan_mc wrote:
Russian Navy to get fifth generation carrier fighter after 2020
...
http://idrw.org/?p=1116

So naval NGFA will take more time for Indian navy ,did ever Indian navy shown interest in T-50 yet ?
IMO, it is too big of a plane for carrier operations. One has to remember that F-22 was found unsuitable (too big/heavy) for US Navy carriers (which are the largest ones in the world). Even the Su-33 is heavy for Russian carrier and there have been reports of its operational limitations; hence order for the 24 MiG-29Ks.
TonyMontana
BRFite
Posts: 529
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 04:00
Location: Pro-China-Anti-CCP-Land

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by TonyMontana »

Austin wrote:The Russian certainly will be cautious and will make sure reverse engineering will be much more harder task to achieve for advanced fighters in export market.
This is more true then you think. I shall say no more.
kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by kmc_chacko »

Sorry if posted earlier

Indian officials get up close to new-look PAK FA fighter

R
ussia has conducted a flight demonstration with its prototype PAK FA fighter for a delegation of Indian defence ministry and industry officials.
Held at Ramenskoye aerodrome near Moscow on 31 August, the 10min display was made in support of talks over the bilateral development by Moscow and New Delhi of a new fifth-generation fighter.

Indian officials inspected Sukhoi's lone PAK FA following the demonstration, which included low-speed passes and high angle-of-attack manoeuvres. The aircraft, which will be followed by two more prototypes before the end of the year, is pictured with new-look camouflage markings.

The new fighter programme is a topic of discussion by an Indo-Russian commission for military industrial co-operation, along with another to produce a multi-role transport aircraft with a 20t payload capacity.

New Delhi is insisting on executing both programmes as joint ventures, with equal sharing of investment and workshare.

Russia's air force has a requirement for 250-300 next-generation T-50 fighters to enter use from 2015-16, while India plans to buy between 200 and 250 of the joint design. This should use a common airframe and engines, but have its on-board systems and weapons tailored for their individual needs.
First flown in January, the PAK FA prototype is intended to de-risk features such as the use of low-observable materials and thrust-vectoring engines with supercruise performance, plus internally carried weapons.

Russian sources suggest a pre-production batch of between six and 10 aircraft will be built to support future testing of the type, with the nation's air force expected to launch operational trials in Lipetsk around 2012-13.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ak-fa.html
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by shukla »

kmc_chacko wrote:
Indian officials get up close to new-look PAK FA fighter
Old news.. easy on the font mate!
shanksinha
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 98
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 16:48

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by shanksinha »

Image
Pratik_S
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 21:19
Location: In the Lion's Den
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Pratik_S »

^^^nice
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by shukla »

Documents for FGFA agreement almost ready..
The next milestone will be the Russian-Indian project to create a fifth-generation jet fighter, which will be nothing short of a revolutionary breakthrough in the business of de- signing warplanes. Both sides are working hard doing the requisite paperwork before the signing of the agreement between the two governments. The documents are reportedly 99 percent ready. The new jet fighter will be based on design by Sukhoi, the company that created the flying prototype of the promising aviation complex of frontline aviation (PAK FA), known as the T-50.
http://www.oyetimes.com/news/india/6215 ... n-mta-deal
arya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 82
Joined: 29 Oct 2009 17:48
Location: Kanyakubj Nagre

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by arya »

@shanksinha
it's Sukhoi/HAL FGFA [IAF]
kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by kmc_chacko »

New planes for Russian air force
Russia is modernizing its air forces. Later this year 10 new Yak-130 training-combat planes will be added to the ones the Russian air forces already have.The Yak-130 combat trainer, which is a new generation aircraft, was created at the Yakovlev Design Bureau. The Yak-130 is a dual-use plane, for which it can only be praised. It can be used as a combat trainer and also as a light strike plane, General of the Army and the former Russian air force commander Anatoly Kornukov says.

"The Yak-130 seems to be a light and not very expensive plane but there’re many weapons on it. As regards its cabin, it is comparable to many types of modern planes. There’s a Russian engine there. This is a very modern plane."

According to General Kornukov, the Yak-130 combat trainers have a big export potential and many countries will be ready to buy it. The Yak-130 training-combat plane can be regarded as a universal plane, since pilots, who undergo training on such a plane, can practically without any preparation at all operate all types of jet fighters, including both Russian and foreign-made jet fighters. The Yak-130 plane will be used to train the crews for the “Su” and “MiG” families, including the “Su-35”and “MiG-35” fighter jets, and in the future, for the “T-50” Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), which is currently undergoing tests.

The Yak-130 combat trainer is often called the “Russian Stealth aircraft” but it is more known under the Russian abbreviation PAK FA, which in English means Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces. In a number of parameters, the Russian jet fighter surpasses the U.S. warplanes of the same class. For example, it can maneuver under any engine mode possible. And one more circumstance. The Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) or PAK FA will be by nearly 3 times cheaper than its foreign analogs.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/09/09/19545548.html
kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by kmc_chacko »

Might not be the right area to post

Testing grounded for F-35 jets
WASHINGTON - Flight testing of Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jet, the costliest U.S. arms purchase, has been suspended after discovery of a fuel pump sequencing problem that could have caused engine stall, the Defense Department said Friday.

All three F-35 models have been grounded as a precaution pending "minor" modification of software that controls signal timing, Cheryl Irwin, a Pentagon spokeswoman, said in a statement emailed after the close of markets.

The radar-evading F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, is the Pentagon's costliest acquisition at a projected total of up to $382 billion for 2,457 planes over the next two decades.

A software fix has been developed and is due to be installed in test aircraft starting Oct. 5, Irwin said. The faulty sequencing was discovered during laboratory testing.

"It could possibly trigger a shutdown of all three boost pumps, potentially further causing engine stall," the spokeswoman said.

But she said a simultaneous shutdown of the United Technologies Corp's Pratt & Whitney F135 engine's three fuel "boost pumps" was unlikely.

The grounding was the latest hitch in a high-profile multinational program revamped by Defense Secretary Robert Gates this year to deal with cost overruns and schedule slips.

"The aviation development process discovers technical challenges that force programs to pause, reassess, resolve, and continue," Vice Admiral David Venlet, executive officer for the Pentagon program, said in the statement.

The grounding's impact on the flight test schedule is unknown, John Kent, a Lockheed Martin spokesman, said in a separate emailed statement.

Lockheed, the Pentagon's No. 1 supplier by sales, said it had never experienced the fuel pump sequencing anomaly in any flight condition.

Lockheed and BAE Systems Plc , the fuel system software developer, have identified a fix and begun testing that software in their labs, Kent said.

BAE and Northrop Grumman Corp are Lockheed's chief F-35 subcontractors. An alternate, interchangeable engine is being developed by a joint venture of General Electric Co and Britain's Rolls-Royce Group Plc .

The United States is co-developing the F-35 with eight foreign partners -- Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway. Together, the partners are projected to buy about 730 planes.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/20 ... 56851.html
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by shukla »

kmc_chacko wrote:Might not be the right area to post
International Aerospace discussion seems like a more appropriate thread for this post..
kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by kmc_chacko »

shukla wrote:
kmc_chacko wrote:Might not be the right area to post
International Aerospace discussion seems like a more appropriate thread for this post..

thanks, i will do it

ooops, already posted
juvva
BRFite
Posts: 380
Joined: 20 Oct 2008 17:34

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by juvva »

[quote

China 100+ units by 2025-2035??? :eek: quote]

Not to worry, India must be doing at least part of software....and there are such things as Trojans :twisted: :wink:
vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by vishnu.nv »

200-250 FFGA of 100Million a pop. Even IAF completes these acquisition by 2030, it will have formidable regional supremacy.
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by shukla »

Post Reply