PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Vipul » 22 Sep 2011 23:03

Indian Air Force to seek engine upgrade for fighter aircraft.

The Indian Air Force will seek a more powerful engine for the Sukhoi T-50 fifth-generation stealth fighter jet that is being jointly developed by Russia and India for delivery in 2018, a top government official said.

The air force is aiming to induct 250 Sukhoi T-50s with stealth technology, 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft and 120 indigenously built light combat aircraft, known as the Tejas, in addition to upgrading RAC MiG-29, Dassault Mirage 2000H/TH and Jaguar fighter jets.

India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd , Russia’s Rosoboronexport and Sukhoi Co. had signed an agreement in 2010 to jointly design and develop the fifth-generation fighter jet.

India hopes to induct the jets from 2017-2018 to bolster its air defences.

Air chief marshal N.A.K. Browne said he was satisfied with the progress of the fighter jet project, but will seek an upgrade of the engine.

“It has flown a number of sorties,” Browne said on the sidelines of an aerospace conference in New Delhi. “A lot of changes are going to take place by the time we get the first aircraft. The engine is going to be different. It’s going to be a more powerful engine than the one fitted right now. We have selected the engine.”

The air force chief did not provide details of the upgraded engine or its capabilities.

“Perhaps what he is referring to is the 117S engine, which is an advanced version of the AL-31F engine,” said Deba R. Mohanty, senior fellow in security studies at Observer Research Foundation.

India may learn very little about design from the stealth jet projects as most of the work has already been completed, Mohanty said.

“When we are talking about joint development, three areas are important—upgraded avionics, composite material related to stealth technology and the engine, which could have helped our own Kaveri engine programme,” he said. “I don’t think India is going to get much in design knowledge, maybe more in the production stage. I wish India could have joined earlier.”

Timelines for the delivery of the fifth-generation aircraft to the air force will become clear once the programme moves from prototype to production, Browne said.

“By 2017-2018, we expect the first aircraft to come to us,” he said. “The aircraft is still under prototype testing. So, once the prototype is over and it gets into the production phase, then we will be sure of the timelines.”

Meanwhile, the bids for the multi-billion-dollar medium multi-role combat aircraft order, which has Eurofighter and Rafale as the two contenders, are expected to be opened by October.

The Eurofighter is built by a consortium of four countries—the UK, Italy, Spain and Germany—whereas Rafale is developed by France’s Dassault Aviation.

“On 7th of October, we have a meeting where some of the issues are going to be discussed,” Browne said. “Once the issues are cleared by the middle of the month we should be in position to open the bids.”

India will need both the medium multi-role fighter jets as well as the stealth fighters, Browne said.

“The medium multi-role combat aircraft does not have stealth features, it does not have super cruise capabilities, whereas the fifth-generation fighter aircraft has all that,” Browne said.

“It has (an) armament base, where all the missiles and weapons are inside the aircraft which gives a certain amount of stealth potential. Medium multi-role aircraft has its own set of capabilities. So they are a generation apart,” Browne added.

Typically, an air force of India’s size should have 30% fifth-generation jets which make up the frontline aircraft and 40% of medium-range aircraft, Mohanty said.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby sivab » 24 Sep 2011 06:03

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2011/09/f ... -fgfa.html

Индия выбрала двигатели для истребителя FGFA : IAF Finalises Engines For Its FGFA, More Powerful Than PAK-FA's 'Item 117'

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 24 Sep 2011 07:11

On Aug 24, 2011:

NRao wrote:The PAK-FA has made great progress and looks good, but I do not think it is as mature as it could be. We need to wait a year or so. Specially the engine. The 117 is not the final product, not even close. May be in terms of thrust the Type-30 will be fairly close, but that is about it. The 117 cannot be used for the final product. I think India is funding the Type-30.
Looks like the current PAK-FA has a neat radar. Let us see what happens.

I still feel that the FGFA would be a different beast. The 50 off-the-shelf PAK-FA? Cannot say - outside of - to me - it amounts to funding their plane. ????


It must be what the engine designer referred to as the T-30.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 26 Sep 2011 03:35

I have always been rather sceptical about Russian def funding. Here is a data point that IMHO does not bode very well for Russian def spending in ganaral, perhaps even more so for the PAKFA.

Russian Finance Minister Demurs on Leadership Swap

Mr. Kudrin explained that he objected to Mr. Medvedev’s approval of a $65 billion increase in military spending over three years. Just the increase, he said, would equal Russia’s total expenditure on education at all levels, including universities.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 26 Sep 2011 10:24

Why do you bring tangent into the argument of some internal fight between the president and finance minister and then link to PAK-FA program ?

Defence budget for any country is a tough ask because of the budget deficit and increased debt , but even with all the spending and just the capital procurement budget of nearly 750 billion dollar for defence this decade and other social program the Debt to GDP ratio would be under 20 % of GDP by 2020 quite well manageable compared to other countries that are much more worse there, right now they have a lower debt to gdp ratio. link

BTW India debt stands today at 70 % of GDP and that has really not much to do with FGFA program.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Hitesh » 26 Sep 2011 11:17

^^^ Besides what Mr. Kudrin, the Russian FM, is doing is a hack job designed to force Mr. Medvedev out of the power circle and sideline him. It is nothing but another Machiavelli ploy of Putin. Putin has been looking for ways to smack down the uppity Mr. Medvedev who dared to defy Putin on several occasions during the Medvedev presidency. Anyways, enough off topic. Back to regular programming.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 28 Sep 2011 04:07

Austin,

First and foremost I mentioned it is a data point. They come, go and change. But in any analysis (IMHO) they are important. Granted one persons data point may be trash for another - as you seem to think. And, that is OK with me.

Thanks for that link. Quite aware of such details. However, the topic is not tangential. After the resignation of the FinMin - a day or two after my post - this:

Medvedev's first task will probably be implementing unpopular cuts to rein in public spending. He may have to back away from a commitment to triple defense expenditures -- a promise that prompted Alexei Kudrin, the long-serving finance minister and leading budget hawk, to say he would refuse to serve under Medvedev.


Just a data point, again.

On the FinMin, HE made Putin - as Wiki calls it the Putin era. Granted (as Hitesh mentions) there is a huge political angle to it (and thanks for that data point too). But the fact remains the guy who resigned was instrumental in the Russian eco rise.

One comparing GDP/debt, etc with other nations, not even close. Sure Russia has a low debt, but India has twice the PPP than Russia. Some $2.22 trillion for Russia to $4+ trillion for India.

More l8r.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 28 Sep 2011 04:18

Aug, 2011 :: Air Forces Prospects

(Again, just a data point.)

For Air Forces Day, RIA Novosti had military commentator Konstantin Bogdanov describe how he sees things developing for this armed service


Interestingly, he begins with the Su-35S. Forty-eight of these “transitional” 4++ generation fighters will be procured, but there could be more if there is any delay in the 5th generation T-50.


I am not sure if the following is an issue with a translator:

Bogdanov sees more clouds in military transport development and production. Il-476 production at Ulyanovsk still needs to stand up................


I assume he means that the IL-476 is somewhat behind schedule.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 28 Sep 2011 09:20

NRao wrote:Medvedev's first task will probably be implementing unpopular cuts to rein in public spending. He may have to back away from a commitment to triple defense expenditures -- a promise that prompted Alexei Kudrin, the long-serving finance minister and leading budget hawk, to say he would refuse to serve under Medvedev.


Well if those analysis are from CNN or Bloomberg then i can just ignore it , any ways this is not a Russian internal discussion forum so i will let it go and it has any way little to do with PAK-FA or any thing.

One comparing GDP/debt, etc with other nations, not even close. Sure Russia has a low debt, but India has twice the PPP than Russia. Some $2.22 trillion for Russia to $4+ trillion for India.

More l8r.


PPP does not mean much the real index is per capita income for the general well being of the people and the state and what really matters for any country is the budget deficit and debt , you can spend as much as you want as long as you can keep the budget deficit and debt under check , becuase if you borrow you have to pay that as well and if you borrow more you end up paying more , else you will end up something like US is in now.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SriSri » 03 Oct 2011 13:09

IAF Chief: 214 FGFAs, HAL Tejas Clearance Delayed, MRCA Deliveries by 2014 and more..

2011-10-03 In a press conference in New Delhi, the Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne revealed the following:
....
* Indian Air Force plans to induct the FGFA / PAK-FA as 166 single-seaters and 48 twin-seaters.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Bharadwaj » 03 Oct 2011 13:33

SriSri wrote:IAF Chief: 214 FGFAs, HAL Tejas Clearance Delayed, MRCA Deliveries by 2014 and more..

2011-10-03 In a press conference in New Delhi, the Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne revealed the following:
....
* Indian Air Force plans to induct the FGFA / PAK-FA as 166 single-seaters and 48 twin-seaters.


HUH?!!!!. Was this not supposed to be the other way round?. If this is no misquote, it represents a major turnaround in thinking of the IAF- The Russians have probably made a convincing case with regards to sensor fusion, workload reduction etc of the T-50. It is also possible that the neighborhood stealth boa...errr fighter has influenced thinking with regards to rcs concerns of a larger canopy.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby krishnan » 03 Oct 2011 13:46

I always thought they were going for more single seater

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 03 Oct 2011 13:52


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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby merlin » 03 Oct 2011 15:37

Bharadwaj wrote:
HUH?!!!!. Was this not supposed to be the other way round?. If this is no misquote, it represents a major turnaround in thinking of the IAF- The Russians have probably made a convincing case with regards to sensor fusion, workload reduction etc of the T-50. It is also possible that the neighborhood stealth boa...errr fighter has influenced thinking with regards to rcs concerns of a larger canopy.


More like the bear would have said take it or **** off and India as usual having no choice would have had to accept it.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby koti » 03 Oct 2011 16:18

merlin wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:
HUH?!!!!. Was this not supposed to be the other way round?. If this is no misquote, it represents a major turnaround in thinking of the IAF- The Russians have probably made a convincing case with regards to sensor fusion, workload reduction etc of the T-50. It is also possible that the neighborhood stealth boa...errr fighter has influenced thinking with regards to rcs concerns of a larger canopy.


More like the bear would have said take it or **** off and India as usual having no choice would have had to accept it.


Be rational.
If we get 48 twin seater aircraft it means there is a fully developed twin seat aircraft.
IAF can have any number of aircraft manufactured according to license agreements.

There is no need for Russia to dictate number twin seater aircraft IAF can have.

I see no use in your post other then a rant.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby krishnan » 03 Oct 2011 16:26

IAF always wanted a single seat, twin engined aircraft

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 03 Oct 2011 16:45

it was mentioned in the FORCE article by NC Agarwal HAL Design team , the twin seat PAK-FA will have some effects on its stealth compared to single seat fighter , since adding another seat would need some reconfiguration which would effect the overall stealth, perhaps that is the reason why they opted for more of single seat.

To quote him

The PMF currently sports a radar cross section of approximately 0.5 and it needs to be seen if the twin-seat variant will have reduced stealth characteristics due to the increased cross section as also changes to its aerodynamic and ‘g’ performance. According to Agarwal, “The changes would mean keeping a close eye on the Radar Cross Section (RCS)

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2011 17:42

One presumes that the detailed analysis of the FGFA by the IAF has seen the light that the need for two pilots as in the Flankers we have is really unneccessary.The 48 twin-seat FGFA will probably consist of trainers (24+?) and one sqd. in the dedicated stealth bomber role carying part of our N-deterrent.

This is a welcome development as it means that the FGFA will enter IAF service earlier by two years,as it would've taken that amount of time to develop a new variant.It also makes better economic sense as a twin-seat aircraft would ceratinly cost much more.One pressing reason for the IAF's decision is possibly the increasingly looming danger from the PRC that grows by the day.The rapidly increasing intrusions into Indian territory by the PLA and the menacing growth of the PLAN with extra-regional ambitions other than the pacific and Indo-China Sea,has finally awoken the GOI's slumber.Our doughty def. min has not been "deaf" (pun intended!) to the concerns of the armed forces and will be in Russia to further the Indo-Russian def. agreements,tracking their schedules and firming up new ones,so that the Indian fores can keep pace with the relentless dragonfires being stoked,as it was with pre-war Germany.

Given the minimum numbers required by the IAF and the now very clear light at the end of the never-ending tunnel,that the LCA is "hastening slowly", to quote an old Chinese saying,and that we will have to wait with more patience before Mk-2 arrives-and may not be available in alrge enough numbers to be effective in countering the Sino-Pak JC threat,we may see even more orders for Flankers/Flanker derivatives to "close the gap".If the MMRCA does arrive as early as 2014,it will also help.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2011 18:14

maybe they figured by the 2025 timeframe when we start inducting the PAKFA, our weaponry will have advanced sufficiently to the point of having small self-guided weapons that need minimal operator help and tend to take their coordinates from the a/c sensors and network semi-automatically. and self-defences would also get more automated with DASS, side looking x-band et al.

its a lower cost, lower risk and more timeline short option to induct the single seater as a the mainstream.

there is no 2 seater JSF being created for the strike role which will be its bread and butter.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 03 Oct 2011 21:13

Just wanted to make a point. The FGFA is a PARTNERSHIP, the PAK-FA is NOT.

What that means - at the moment - I am not too sure. Time will tell. But, going from 0 to 50 to 166 some thing had to give. And, I do not think it is something as simple as the RFC. Again, time will tell. It very weel counld be a technical decision.

On hoping that they will arrive ahead of the olanned time, I think not. RuAF should have priority - I would imagine. And, what resources are allocated should be going towards RuAF (rightly so).

More l8r.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 03 Oct 2011 22:47

IAF to induct 214 variants of fighter aircraft

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will induct a total of 214 single and twin-seater variants of the advanced Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being developed jointly by India and Russia and likely to be inducted by 2017.

"We are looking for 166 single seater and 48 twin-seater versions of the aircraft," IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told reporters here.

He was asked to comment on the project which will be reviewed by India and Russia during defence minister AK Antony's meeting with his Russian counterpart AE Sardyukov in Moscow.

He said the contract was in the preliminary contract stage and was expected involve more efforts by two sides when it enters design phase next year.

"By 2012, negotiations will start for the design phase of the aircraft," he said.

The IAF Chief said India would also discuss basing air force, Hindustan Aeronautics limited (HAL) and DRDO teams in Russia to monitor the progress of the joint venture project.

He said by 2017 the first lot of the aircraft were expected to join the IAF and that will depend on the progress of tests and trials of the aircraft.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Gaur » 03 Oct 2011 23:00

Some fabulous shots of PAK-FA:
Image
Image
Image
Image

http://www.hesja.pl/XPL/galeria/show/237

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Craig Alpert » 04 Oct 2011 01:44

interesting to see that the numbers are revised around 214 instead of the original ~250-300...

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Misraji » 04 Oct 2011 02:40

IAF to induct 214 variants of fighter aircraft

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will induct a total of 214 single and twin-seater variants of the advanced Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being developed jointly by India and Russia and likely to be inducted by 2017.

"We are looking for 166 single seater and 48 twin-seater versions of the aircraft," IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told reporters here.
-SNIP-


HUH? When did this happen?
I thought we were firmly with the FGFA and that would be a twin-seater.

~Ashish

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 04 Oct 2011 04:11

Kidding aside (I would still like some of that Stolli), I think all this is related to what transpired during the last visit of CAS Naik. There were two things that stuck out (but were never taken seriously I guess): 1) Trying to make the AFs of the two nations work together, and 2) a smaller 5th gen air craft for India (specifically).

I suspect this 166 PAK-FA is part of the commonality thinking. And nothing more. I very much doubt it has to do with technical issues. My thinking is that technology can overcome most, if not all, of such deficiencies. Certainly at a cost - which I feel India is willing to accept (as in the case of a superior engine).

I would be most interested in the other shoe: any leads on the the smaller 5th gen plane.

I would not be surprised if any deals made WRT the FGFA are tossed out and a new, wider, deal is written - to include both the PAK-FA and the FGFA.

RuAF expects to get 75 PAK-FANs by 2020. Considering their predicament (with all due respect to GDP and the like) I am fairly confident that the RuAF could not have made ends meet. I suspect that this deal mirrors the MKI to a great extent, where Sukhoi - more than Russia - is the partner. Sounds strange - granted. But, I feel that India will get more out of this deal than that of the MKI.

?????

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby srai » 04 Oct 2011 09:46

SriSri wrote:IAF Chief: 214 FGFAs, HAL Tejas Clearance Delayed, MRCA Deliveries by 2014 and more..

2011-10-03 In a press conference in New Delhi, the Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne revealed the following:
....
* Indian Air Force plans to induct the FGFA / PAK-FA as 166 single-seaters and 48 twin-seaters.
...



Philip wrote:One presumes that the detailed analysis of the FGFA by the IAF has seen the light that the need for two pilots as in the Flankers we have is really unneccessary.The 48 twin-seat FGFA will probably consist of trainers (24+?) and one sqd. in the dedicated stealth bomber role carying part of our N-deterrent.

...


So looks like IAF is planning for 10 squadrons of PAK-FA/FGFA (initially):

Code: Select all

Given that one IAF Fighter Squadron consists of
    * 16 single-seater aircrafts
    * 2 twin-seater aircrafts

Plus, some xx deep reserves for the fighter type.

That equates to 10 squadrons  [166 single-seater PAK-FA / 16 units per squadron]
    - plus, 20 twin-seater FGFA [10 sqdn x 2 twin-seater aircraft]
    - plus fleet reserves, 6 single-seater + 4 two-seater (likely) aircrafts on reserve for the whole fleet
 
Remaining 24 twin-seater FGFA could be for special ops, such as N-deterrent or EW etc.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2011 09:51

other than the Growler role, is a 2 seater going to be needed post 2020 given the advances in avionics and weapons. smaller is always better from stealth standpoint. case in point - neither the F22 or JSF were designed with 2 seaters in mind. Rafale, F18 & F16 seems to be doing fine in strike missions on a single seat, with highly automated ECM suite.

another issue could be quicker induction in numbers starting 2018 when su30mki production stops ensuring a continuous pipeline of new squadrons forming up with the latest kit. the MKI took around 10 yrs to mature from the 27KUB to mk3 std.

perhaps idea is get around 100-150 single seaters and then move on to FGFA modded kit if needed later, or else just stick to 150 addl single seaters for a total of around 300.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2011 09:56

^ the really FOCable pakfa seems to be here :) twin engines, slim superbly tapering fuselage, red paint job...

http://www.hesja.pl/photos/14017.jpg

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby negi » 04 Oct 2011 10:12

I think the sheer amount of information and data which is available in a modern day fighter cockpit forced IAF to opt for a 2 seater config for a strike AC in class of MKI; I am not sure if the new development is primarily due to degradation of stealth characteristics for accommodating an extra person in cockpit or simply due to the delay in rolling out a 2 seat version.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Oct 2011 10:23

PAK-FA would be a pilots aircraft as no pilots prefers to share its plane with another man in cockpit :)

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Oct 2011 11:44

negi wrote:I think the sheer amount of information and data which is available in a modern day fighter cockpit forced IAF to opt for a 2 seater config for a strike AC in class of MKI; I am not sure if the new development is primarily due to degradation of stealth characteristics for accommodating an extra person in cockpit or simply due to the delay in rolling out a 2 seat version.


It simply boils down to operational philosophy , the same sheer amount of information will be available to pilots of JSF,PAK-FA,F-22 and Su-35 yet these aircraft are single seater as these are either air superiority fighter or multirole type.

Typically dedicated tactical bomber/strike aircraft in US and Russian inventory are twin seater e.g F-111 ,F-15 strike variant , Su-34 ,Su-24, The number of pilots/navigators/wso would wary for semi-strategic bombers like B1B ,Tu-22M3 or strategic bombers like B-2,B-52,Tu-95,Tu-160.

The IAF thinks it needs twin seater as it does not have the flexibility to have multiple type or specialized aircraft in its inventory and prefers multi-role types that can do all task equally well in some proportion and equally perhaps the sensor fusion of data in MKI is not as sophisticated like JSF or PAK-FA and they need two man crew to share the work load , the second person is any ways a navigator/wso.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Oct 2011 12:20

NRao wrote:RuAF expects to get 75 PAK-FANs by 2020. Considering their predicament (with all due respect to GDP and the like) I am fairly confident that the RuAF could not have made ends meet.


You can read about official plans for RuAF here ( you will have to use translator )
http://lenta.ru/news/2010/12/01/fighters/

I suspect that this deal mirrors the MKI to a great extent, where Sukhoi - more than Russia - is the partner. Sounds strange - granted. But, I feel that India will get more out of this deal than that of the MKI.

Most of the PAK-FA for RuAF and IAF will only start coming in the beginning of next decade only a small percentage will hit both AF this decade , hence the numbers of PAK-FA purchased till 2020 is only 70 for RuAF and for IAF it wont be any bigger as the aircraft will only complete its FOC by 2016 and for FGFA much later.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby P Chitkara » 04 Oct 2011 14:53

If the AF is looking for a smaller 5th Gen from Russia - as suggested by some members, what direction will the AMCA take, where will it fit in?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 04 Oct 2011 21:15

Austin wrote:
NRao wrote:RuAF expects to get 75 PAK-FANs by 2020. Considering their predicament (with all due respect to GDP and the like) I am fairly confident that the RuAF could not have made ends meet.


You can read about official plans for RuAF here ( you will have to use translator )
http://lenta.ru/news/2010/12/01/fighters/

I suspect that this deal mirrors the MKI to a great extent, where Sukhoi - more than Russia - is the partner. Sounds strange - granted. But, I feel that India will get more out of this deal than that of the MKI.

Most of the PAK-FA for RuAF and IAF will only start coming in the beginning of next decade only a small percentage will hit both AF this decade , hence the numbers of PAK-FA purchased till 2020 is only 70 for RuAF and for IAF it wont be any bigger as the aircraft will only complete its FOC by 2016 and for FGFA much later.


No problems with most, if not all, what you post.

My reluctance to believe in these numbers is based more on what I read about the con-jointed twins are doing in the political arena. I feel Putin is more concerned about his own survival and building - for a lack of a better word at the moment - an empire of sorts. I do not think he has what is best for Russia in mind. It does not mean that he cannot triple the Def budget. It could/would mean that he may be unable to sustain the support in the longer run and therefore have implication that are undesirable. I think even the decisions based on economics are to support their own political end - IMHO.

P Chitkara wrote:If the AF is looking for a smaller 5th Gen from Russia - as suggested by some members, what direction will the AMCA take, where will it fit in?


It was reported when previous CAS Naik visited Russia a few months ago. It is not something suggested on BR by any member. Just wanted to point that out.

Austin
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Oct 2011 21:53

NRao wrote:My reluctance to believe in these numbers is based more on what I read about the con-jointed twins are doing in the political arena. I feel Putin is more concerned about his own survival and building - for a lack of a better word at the moment - an empire of sorts. I do not think he has what is best for Russia in mind. It does not mean that he cannot triple the Def budget. It could/would mean that he may be unable to sustain the support in the longer run and therefore have implication that are undesirable. I think even the decisions based on economics are to support their own political end - IMHO.


Thats like saying if Rahul Gandhi becomes the PM tomorrow the defence plans of MOD will change.

Those plans are based on long term planning and they don't change with change of government , heck with Putin at helm it will simply get more support. In the end defence budget its all budget deficit , debt ....as long as you can control those you can spend ......else you will end up with a situation where US or Europe is in

NRao
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby NRao » 05 Oct 2011 03:01

Austin,

Let it slide. We are not on the same page. No use continuing.

Thx.

andy B
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby andy B » 06 Oct 2011 06:15

Abduls,

recent Air intl. has some good info on maks 2011 and on ze pak fa will load it up tomorrow.

SaiK
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby SaiK » 06 Oct 2011 16:32

With regard to the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), being jointly designed and developed by India and Russia, both sides noted that the first stage of the preliminary design contract has been successfully completed and the second stage of the PD Contract is to be finalised before September, 2012.
http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=15786

Two stages of preliminary design? interesting. anyone can elaborate?

Kanson
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Kanson » 07 Oct 2011 09:45

@Austin, regarding single seater/double seater for PAKFA

1. It is mentioned by previous Air Chief that PAK-FA/FGFA will be a swing role fighter not multi-role.
2. With NCW gaining prominence, every aircraft involved in the mission acts as a fused unit, reducing the work load.

Austin
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Postby Austin » 12 Oct 2011 09:01

Interview with Yevhen Marchuk chief designer and director NPO Saturn ( use translator )

link


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