LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Kakarat » 22 May 2010 18:54

Light Combat Helicopter Inaugural Flight To Be Low Key - Livefist

Livefist wrote:The inaugural flight of India's Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) will go ahead on schedule tomorrow morning, though the Defence Minister will not be chief guest -- he will be replaced by Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal PV Naik.....

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby aditya_d » 22 May 2010 19:51

More pics of the LCH with Sarang escorts..

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/05/l ... -just.html

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby vivekmehta » 22 May 2010 21:53

From pictures posted one thing is clear HAL has tremendous confidence on this new machine . stores hanging may be dummy but it shows HAL has confidence on aerodynamics/ control /power etc and this confidence comes only because of success of ALH . ALH was a grate learning curve for them ,they would have invented /learned a lot of this from scratch .and all that learning and effort is helping in such a rapid development on LCH .

govt should take lesson from this and should immediately lay a roadmap for further developments on base of LCA & arjun program . LCH has proven that how you can reap benefits from existing developments and can turnaround associated projects much faster .

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby A Sharma » 22 May 2010 22:00

Dedication of LCH to the Nation

Indian aviation fraternity in general and HAL in particular is eager to witness another milestone event, when Hon’ble Defence Minister Shri A.K Antony will dedicate the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) to the nation on coming Sunday at HAL Airport. Indigenously developed and built by HAL in a record time, a derivative of Advanced Light Helicopter (Dhruv) is an attack helicopter first of its kind in India.

History

It became imminent for the MOD and Indian Air Force that the technologies acquired and developed on the Dhruv platform could be translated into developing a dedicated Light combat helicopter appended with newer technologies like low visibility features, Nuclear Biological and Chemical warfare protection, integration of the latest weapon systems, and electronic warfare suite. The HAL Fraternity expresses its gratitude to the nation, MOD and the Indian Air force for giving it yet another great opportunity in realizing this dream.

Technicality

The LCH inherits many technical features of the Dhruv which includes the rotor system Transmission, power plant, Hydraulics, IADS, weapons system and Avionics. The features that are unique to LCH are Sleek & narrow fuselage, tri-cycle crashworthy landing gear, tandem cockpits, crashworthy & self sealing fuel tanks, aero foil shaped stub wings for weapons, armour protection, NBC protection and, low visibility features Which make the LCH lethal, agile and survivable.

Development philosophy

LCH prototype development was based on the concept of design, ground testing and fabrication concurrently. This resulted in building the 1st machine within 40 months.

The design & manufacturing was carried-out using the state-of-art C.A.D/C.A.M facilities which obviated the requirement of an interface check rig. The ground testing included wind-tunnel testing, landing gear drop tests, and shake test.

A mock up was also built for evaluation by the Indian Air Force.

Development Team


The development team included members of HAL, Indian Air Force, the certification authorities CEMILAC ,DGAQA and the various suppliers of the onboard systems.

Capability and Performance

LCH will be fitted with a 20 mm Turret gun and can carry Rockets, Air-to Air / Air-to-Ground missiles on the weapon stations.

The helicopter would have day/night targeting systems for the crew including the Helmet pointed sight and Electro-optical pod consisting of CCD camera/FLIR/Laser range finder/laser designator. The LRF & LD facilitate measurement of range to the target & guidance to the Laser guided Missiles respectively. A Digital Video Recorder would enable recording of the vital mission for debriefing purposes. The turret gun skewing is controlled by the helmet mounted sight of the gunner.

The LCH is fitted with Self Protection Suite consisting of Radar/Laser Missile warning systems and Countermeasures dispensing system. It is also planned to integrate IR/Laser missile jammer on the helicopter.

The helicopter would be fitted with a Data Link for Network-centric operations facilitating transfer of the mission data to the other airborne platforms and ground stations operating in the Network, thus facilitating force multiplication.

The machine is designed for low detection (visual, aural, radar & infra-red) and includes armour protection of critical areas. A 30 minute dry running capability of the gear box is a built in feature to survive after a ballistic hit to the transmission system. Crashworthiness features are built into the wheel landing gear & structure.

Dual redundant systems also enhance the effectiveness of the helicopter in the battlefield environment.

The performance features of the LCH i.e. rate of climb, cruise speed, service ceiling are on par, if not better than other helicopter in its class like A129/Tiger and with bigger dedicated combat helicopters like Apache, Kamov 30 or Mi-35. LCH has all the makings of a winner in its class of helicopters.


Cost data ( Development cost, unit cost, maintenance cost & operating cost)

The development cost of LCH is very low compared to that of other helicopters in its class, ensuring lower unit costs compared to other attack helicopters. LCH design is optimized to ensure ease of maintenance with improved reliability of all the onboard systems to keep the operating costs low.

Conclusion

Self-reliance in such strategic machines forms an unequivocal requirement for India’s defence and products like the Dhruv & the LCH are missions in this direction. May the Light Combat Helicopter serve the nation for decades to come.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Bolasani » 22 May 2010 22:44

bodhi wrote:in the third pic...is it doing the back flip we were talking about the other day?


I am sorry. I was too far off to clearly make out the rolls clearly.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 23 May 2010 07:21

Full page ad in today's Hindustan Times. Defence Minister Anthony to be the Chief Guest.
Image

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Pratik_S » 23 May 2010 08:53

^^same in Times of India.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby karan_mc » 23 May 2010 09:47

i just saw some pictures of A-129 and landing gear of both LCH and A129 seems to be same only A129 landing gear has been given nice paint job so i am happy now that LCH in army/air force paint will look much better

Image

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Singha » 23 May 2010 10:02

note how smaller the glass area is in A129. we will have to do the same in TD2.

if TD1 is grossly overweight , things can only get worse when more armour bathtub , radar (eventually) and more mission avionics or ammo feed added. we better get turbomeca to start *now* on a uprated variant of the ardigen engine or leave some structural room for a bigger engine if turbomeca says the
current form factor cannot be maintained.

dont want a repeat of Tejas story in everything is finally ready, but uh-oh IAF wants better performance params.

with some hard work and planning a better ardigen will be ready in 3 yrs when flight trials would be mostly complete and weapons trials starting up.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 23 May 2010 10:38

Well, the Mangusta is kind of old style in today's world. Don't see any shaping like the LCH has for reducing the signature. JMT of course.

CM

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Austin » 23 May 2010 10:40

I think the idea of LCH is not to take hits and fight but as the ad says be Lethal ,Agile and Stealthy , which is to say avoid hits as far as possible by agility and stealth.

I do expect LCH to be lightly armored at best take few hits from 12.7 MG and if hit it be crashworthy as ALH.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Kartik » 23 May 2010 11:38

Singha wrote:note how smaller the glass area is in A129. we will have to do the same in TD2.

if TD1 is grossly overweight , things can only get worse when more armour bathtub , radar (eventually) and more mission avionics or ammo feed added. we better get turbomeca to start *now* on a uprated variant of the ardigen engine or leave some structural room for a bigger engine if turbomeca says the
current form factor cannot be maintained.


HAL's description of the LCH (as given in a post above) did not make any mention of a radar..I really doubt that it will get one anyway considering its weight class. But I too believe that the glass area needs reduction.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Kartik » 23 May 2010 11:39

Cain Marko wrote:Well, the Mangusta is kind of old style in today's world. Don't see any shaping like the LCH has for reducing the signature. JMT of course.

CM


yes there's a good reason why the Turks wanted a modernised A-129 for their requirements..but the T-129 still looks mostly similar externally.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby vic » 23 May 2010 12:10

I think LCH is a good idea for a good combat helicopter reasonably well executed. I don't think specifications of Apache rolled into Comanche is possible in this weight class. It it a "light" combat helicopter and we will have to wait for some time till we graduate to "heavy" combat helicopter


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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Kakarat » 23 May 2010 14:11



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Re: LCH discussion

Postby chiru » 23 May 2010 16:19

saar please post the videos now pleeeej

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby shiv » 23 May 2010 18:04


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Re: LCH discussion

Postby wig » 23 May 2010 18:13

lovely photos of the machine. i hope some intrepid soul posts a movie so that can watch the paces of the helicopter.
cheerio

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby SanjibGhosh » 23 May 2010 19:28


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Re: LCH discussion

Postby madhusudhan_r » 23 May 2010 19:37


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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Kakarat » 23 May 2010 20:32

Indigenously Built LCH Takes to the Skies - PIB

The maiden flight of the indigenously manufactured Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) heralded India’s entry into the select group of countries capable of developing their own Combat Helicopters. The LCH manufactured by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited took to the skies in the presence of the Defence Secretary RK Singh, Vice Chief of Air Staff, Air Marshal PK Barbora, Chairman HAL, Ashok Nayak and senior officials of Defence ministry and the forces at the HAL airport in the city today. Chief Test pilot Unni Pillai and Hari Nair put up a spectacular flying display of the LCH on its maiden flight.

The LCH is a dedicated attack helicopter featuring a narrow fuselage and a tandem seating for the pilot and co-pilot. The machine is designed for low detection (reduced visual, aural, radar and infra red signatures) and has crashworthy landing gear for better survivability. The hingeless rotors and the powerful Shakti engines enable the easy manoeuvring of LCH even with weapons.

The other interesting feature of the LCH is the chin-mounted canon along with the helmet mounted sighting system, which gives the pilot the capability to look and fire at targets around the aircraft. An advanced sensor suite consisting of CCD Camera, Forward looking infrared imaging technology and Laser range finder, facilitates target acquisition in all weather conditions.

The Helicopter would be fitted with a Data Link for network-centric operations facilitating the transfer of mission data to the other airborne platforms and ground stations operating in the network, thus facilitating the force multiplication.

With these features the LCH is expected to play a major impact on Air Defence role against slow moving aerial targets, destruction of enemy air defence operations, escort to special heliborne operations, support of combat search and rescue operations, anti-tank role and scout duties.
Last edited by Kakarat on 23 May 2010 20:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby gogna » 23 May 2010 20:33



well done to HAL

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby atreya » 23 May 2010 21:15

Way to go HAL!!
I wonder what the reporter was asking about Rambo 2....was he comparing Mi-35 with LCH?

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Aditya G » 23 May 2010 21:52

Note the thin windows - no way there is any armour on them:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 731857.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 798585.JPG

LCH has a LOT of internal volume ... it cant be fuel storage....:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/S ... G_7429.JPG

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby uddu » 23 May 2010 22:23

Congrats to the HAL team.
LCH Roll over video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSJ-HvCK ... re=related

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 23 May 2010 22:32

uddu wrote:Congrats to the HAL team.
LCH Roll over video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSJ-HvCK ... re=related

:D :D :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby KrishG » 23 May 2010 22:32


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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Austin » 23 May 2010 22:52

Cute Child and a perfect roll over :)

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby putnanja » 23 May 2010 22:57

From http://Tarmak007.blogspot.com . Click on the image for bigger image

Image

Image

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Rahul M » 23 May 2010 23:51

uddu wrote:Congrats to the HAL team.
LCH Roll over video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSJ-HvCK ... re=related

a little underpowered. :wink:

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Hiten » 24 May 2010 00:14

A few more news report on YouTube featuring the LCH


India launches Light Combat Helicopter

Light Combat Helicopter unveiled

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby palash_kol » 24 May 2010 00:48



All are just superb pictures....Really made my day.

Keep it up - HAL, DRDO. ("I am very proud of my country"...)

Now we can dig out enemy shelters like digging cockroach out of holes using "KALA HIT".
:D :twisted:

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Shameek » 24 May 2010 01:10

Fantastic!! Really a proud moment for us. Kudos to everyone involved in this effort!

However I do have a bone to pick with the media coverage:
1. NewsX already brings up that it is 20% heavier and also how the Comanache failed. I dont get the point of this. Cant we be positive for once!
2. Times Now says these will be used in anti-maoist operations!!! The induction is in 2014 and they have already found roles for it.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby shiv » 24 May 2010 08:35

Shameek wrote:
However I do have a bone to pick with the media coverage:
1. NewsX already brings up that it is 20% heavier and also how the Comanache failed. I dont get the point of this. Cant we be positive for once!


My reply here
viewtopic.php?p=876555#p876555

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby sum » 24 May 2010 08:56

However I do have a bone to pick with the media coverage:
1. NewsX already brings up that it is 20% heavier and also how the Comanache failed. I dont get the point of this. Cant we be positive for once!


Actually, Vice chief Barbora said what NewsX is reporting:

IAF plaudits for LCH on its maiden flight

Inaugurating the maiden flight launch of the chopper at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) airport hereon Sunday, the Vice-Chief of Air staff, Air Marshal P K Barbora was unsparing with his admiration for the copter which is now likely to be inducted into the Armed forces by 2014.

The LCH, the military version of the Advanced Light Helicopter (Dhruv) is a dedicated attack helicopter featuring a narrow fuselage and a tandem seating for the pilot and co-pilot. The machine is designed for low detection (reduced visual, aural, radar and infra red signatures) and has crashworthy landing gear for better survivability. With a host of features, the LCH is expected to play a major role in air defence aspect of the Indian Air

Force (IAF) against slow moving aerial targets, destruction of enemy air defence operations, escort to special heliborne operations, support of combat search and rescue operations, anti-tank role and scout duties.

It is a red letter day for not only HAL, but the whole nation. I am quite positive, the aircraft will meet all requirements of the Indian Air Force (IAF) in this class of helicopters. The first display has been superb, though the chopper appears bulky and heavy,” Barbora said. The capability to indigenise a chopper of the class of LCH is possible only by a few nations globally, he added.


“At the same time, HAL must learn from its past mistakes and not repeat them,” he said in a pointed reference to the past differences between the IAF and HAL. Ashok Nayak, HAL chairman who also spoke said, IAF had booked 65 LCHs. “The army has also shown keen interest in buying a large number of these for the army aviation wing,” he said. R K Singh, Secretary, Defence Production was also present.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby vic » 24 May 2010 10:19

I think that LCH is a suberb achievement and HAL should start working on the future upgrade path. One of the most important upgrade path would be more powerful engine. Is there further planned "joint" upgrade for Shakti engine. I understand that this engine has potential for upgrade upto 1500hp. The current engines are 1325hp, so lot of potential is still left.

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby pralay » 24 May 2010 11:18



is LCH doing a vertical Dive during 0.20 to 0.26 ?
or it id due to some perspective angle ?

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Re: LCH discussion

Postby Singha » 24 May 2010 11:19

weight reduction plan and engine upg should proceed in parallel. neither may meet the theoritical goals but together it can suffice.

our hot n high Leh+ ops place demands that would defang most gunship helis. apaches have been reduced to Mi24 style slash and run attacks in afghanistan I believe....none of their discovery channel nap of earth hover seems to be feasible at those height? :mrgreen:


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