LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 Sep 2014 08:19

pankajs wrote:
Anantha Krishnan M ‏@writetake 1h

#HAL sources tell Express that Light Combat Helicopter #LCH project is heading towards the expected Initial Operational Clearance #IOC.

Thats a great new... AK is a very relianble chaiwallla in HAL matters

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Sep 2014 12:49

Would be great if we could get more details and more pics of the LCH soon..perhaps Hari Nair sir could oblige ?

by the way its high time it got a kick-ass name like the Rudra. LCH is just too bland and boring.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Sep 2014 14:43

LCH, has a name. It is called Janmjeya.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Sep 2014 14:45

pankajs wrote:
Anantha Krishnan M ‏@writetake 1h

#HAL sources tell Express that Light Combat Helicopter #LCH project is heading towards the expected Initial Operational Clearance #IOC.

How can they have IOC with just 2 machines. That too when the machines are 300 Kg overweight. Where the 3rd prototype was supposed to resolve the weight related issue.

Perhaps, he means that the TD 3 is about to be launched. In operational configuration.

mody · Post by **mody** » 30 Sep 2014 15:28

A few pages back, in about June or July, Hari Nair sir had stated that TD3 will be ready in about 2-3 months time.
My inference from that was that, we will see TD3, perhaps by year end. Looks like, it might actually happen within the 2-3 month timeframe, i.e. say just in time for the festive season, instead of waiting till year end.

IOC, will obtained, only after TD3 takes flight.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 01 Oct 2014 08:07

Pratyush wrote:LCH, has a name. It is called Janmjeya.

is this for real or are you kidding? This is a very Dharmic name but lacks the punch for an attack helicopter... lets name it after the sword of Lord Shiva... or something deadly like Garuda or Sheshnag.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 01 Oct 2014 08:16

Just came across this article on WSJ - http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-army ... 1412019355

155 'twin-engined' helicopters for $ 800 million - combining support, reconnaissance and non combat missions >> Commonality (rationalization) to simplify service and increase availability at play.

Wonder when IAF will learn more of few types is better than few of many types. Our fighter inventory looks like a museum tour > Jaguar, Mig-21, Mig-27, Mig-29, MKI, M2000 and wish list additions - Gold plated Rafale, PAKFA, Tejas (hopefully), FGFA (fooling us).

Even after dropping Mig-27 we will be flying following for next 10~20 years going by airframe life > Mig-21, Jaguar (engine upgrade by 2012), Mig-29, M2000, MKI, RAFALE, Tejas, PAKFA

8 different airframes means serious $$$ for spares and upkeep - when will we ever stop this foreign donation engine. Making us look mighty smart!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Oct 2014 09:24

Pratyush wrote:LCH, has a name. It is called Janmjeya.

An official name or a BRF name?

member_28305 · Post by **member_28305** » 01 Oct 2014 09:42

LCH is named "Janmjeya" (yet to announce officially)
I found these.. Don't know how credible it is though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz8NemkXQQU
http://activedefence.blogspot.ae/2012/1 ... a-and.html

The name has Zero Punch, Zero Fear Factor..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2014 09:57

sibyt wrote:LCH is named "Janmjeya" (yet to announce officially)
I found these.. Don't know how credible it is though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz8NemkXQQU
http://activedefence.blogspot.ae/2012/1 ... a-and.html

The name has Zero Punch, Zero Fear Factor..

Sorry - it is when we lose our roots, the names that come from those roots carry no meaning for us. Demand for secular names like Axe, arrow, knife, bullet, tool, sharp, killer, gorer, tiger, lion, eagle etc are all fine but Janmajeya is this - from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janamejaya ... .C4.81rata

Emperor Janmejay ascended to the throne of Hastinapura upon the death of his father Parikshit. According to legend, Parikshit, the lone descendant of the House of Pandu, had died of snakebite. He had been cursed by a sage to die so, the curse having been consummated by the serpent-chieftain Takshak.

Janmejay bore a deep grudge against the serpents for this act, and thus decided to wipe them out altogether.

If we can see enemies as snakes, Janmajeya is needed to take them out. It's not a bad name but it does not conform to Macaulayite sensibilities. We have such a rich heritage - so no need to restrict ourselves to simple analogies of tribal desert cultures

Also see
http://www.shraddhananda.com/How_the_sn ... ology.html

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Oct 2014 10:03

Shiv Ji,

You should consider changing your location. To Embarrassed by Macaulayite sensibilities. From Embarrassed by FOB Indians.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Oct 2014 10:05

Another Army Chetak crashes killing 3. The decision to build a desi LUH which will take several years as the helo hasn't even flown once,means that many more precious lives of our pilots flying these antiques will be lost in the future.It was incomprehensible why an interim order of either of the two contenders could not have been bought to meet critical need as the requirement is above 400 eventually,enough to have bought 60-80 LUHs from abroad to meet the crisis..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2014 10:12

Pratyush wrote:Shiv Ji,

You should consider changing your location. To Embarrassed by Macaulayite sensibilities. From Embarrassed by FOB Indians.

We had the same round of objections when we heard the name Dhruv and the name Tejas. These are all great names from our past. Names like "Sting, Spear, Sabre, Scorpion, Arrow, Wolf, Lion, Raptor, Cobra" etc are simplistic ones that "sound badass" - but we have a history of badass people doing badass things while they had real names. Sometimes those names can help us reconnect with a culture and imagery that our education has discarded.

member_28305 · Post by **member_28305** » 01 Oct 2014 10:37

Apologies..

I didnt know there was a legend behind..
I only considered the literal meaning of the name..

Im not a fanboy for western names either.. i thought a fearful name similar to "Rudra" would be gud..

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 01 Oct 2014 11:45

Shivji, Rudra was an excellent choice... Tejas not so... Druv was not bad but Janamejaya doesn't cut much ice... there are plenty of names evoking fear in our epics...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Oct 2014 12:32

nik wrote:Just came across this article on WSJ - http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-army ... 1412019355

155 'twin-engined' helicopters for $ 800 million - combining support, reconnaissance and non combat missions >> Commonality (rationalization) to simplify service and increase availability at play.

Wonder when IAF will learn more of few types is better than few of many types. Our fighter inventory looks like a museum tour > Jaguar, Mig-21, Mig-27, Mig-29, MKI, M2000 and wish list additions - Gold plated Rafale, PAKFA, Tejas (hopefully), FGFA (fooling us).

Even after dropping Mig-27 we will be flying following for next 10~20 years going by airframe life > Mig-21, Jaguar (engine upgrade by 2012), Mig-29, M2000, MKI, RAFALE, Tejas, PAKFA

8 different airframes means serious $$$ for spares and upkeep - when will we ever stop this foreign donation engine. Making us look mighty smart!

You think you're smarter than the air force to make such a flippant comment?

And since you seem to believe that we're in one royal mess because of bad policy decision by IAF in the past when it comes to a/c type in inventory - why don't you tell us what should have been done instead of what IAF actually did? And while you're at it, do tell us why IAF bought such a menagerie of a/c type.

Let's see you put your money where you mouth is.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Oct 2014 12:52

I would wait for an official announcement of LCH's name..Janmjeya just doesn't roll off the tongue the way Rudra does.

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Oct 2014 12:54

Sir, it is Janmejaya or Janamejaya.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 01 Oct 2014 13:46

Shrinivasan wrote:Shivji, Rudra was an excellent choice... Tejas not so... Druv was not bad but Janamejaya doesn't cut much ice... there are plenty of names evoking fear in our epics...

Tejas is an excellent, excellent name. One of the few along with Rudra that is totally satisfying.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 01 Oct 2014 14:42

Kalki would be a good fit for the LCH

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Oct 2014 16:13

HAL to accelerate LUH programme

A sense of urgency just crept in.

The scrapping of the 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopter (RSH) programme has placed fresh onus on HAL's Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) project that targets a first flight by next year. HAL's LUH is in a tense race against time to service a requirement of 187 helicopters. With the scrapping of the RSH programme, HAL has the opportunity to make up for lost time and ensure no further slippages in acquiring systems and getting the chopper off the ground on time next year. MoD stipulations on the project were that for every waypoint that HAL missed on its development flightpath, the parallel RSH procurement programme would gain with corresponding follow-on orders, thereby chipping away at HAL's total order numbers.

Top sources at HAL tell SP's that the company's helicopter division has decided to push full throttle on the LUH programme now, sniffing the opportunity of some valuable breathing space. A desperate Indian Army and IAF could also be persuaded to show more support for the LUH with the collapse of the RSH acquisition for now.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Oct 2014 16:28

Article claims that first 22 Apaches will be operated by the IAF and the next 39 will be operated by the IA...thats a total of 61 Apaches.

Apache capability blitzkreig for IAF as decks cleared for deal

The Indian Air Force will operate the first 22 Apaches, while the Indian Army will contract (negotiations will begin later this year) for 39 more Apaches for three attack helicopter squadrons to be deployed with its three strike corps. The Indian Air Force deal includes 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30 mm ammunition, transponders and simulators.

...

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 01 Oct 2014 16:51

shiv wrote:
sibyt wrote:LCH is named "Janmjeya" (yet to announce officially)
I found these.. Don't know how credible it is though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz8NemkXQQU
http://activedefence.blogspot.ae/2012/1 ... a-and.html

The name has Zero Punch, Zero Fear Factor..
Sorry - it is when we lose our roots, the names that come from those roots carry no meaning for us. Demand for secular names like Axe, arrow, knife, bullet, tool, sharp, killer, gorer, tiger, lion, eagle etc are all fine but Janmajeya is this - from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janamejaya ... .C4.81rata
Emperor Janmejay ascended to the throne of Hastinapura upon the death of his father Parikshit. According to legend, Parikshit, the lone descendant of the House of Pandu, had died of snakebite. He had been cursed by a sage to die so, the curse having been consummated by the serpent-chieftain Takshak.

Janmejay bore a deep grudge against the serpents for this act, and thus decided to wipe them out altogether.
If we can see enemies as snakes, Janmajeya is needed to take them out. It's not a bad name but it does not conform to Macaulayite sensibilities. We have such a rich heritage - so no need to restrict ourselves to simple analogies of tribal desert cultures

Also see
http://www.shraddhananda.com/How_the_sn ... ology.html

But the LCHs main weapon will be the NAG(cobra - snake) onlee.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 01 Oct 2014 17:14

Kartik wrote:Article claims that first 22 Apaches will be operated by the IAF and the next 39 will be operated by the IA...thats a total of 61 Apaches.

Apache capability blitzkreig for IAF as decks cleared for deal

The Indian Air Force will operate the first 22 Apaches, while the Indian Army will contract (negotiations will begin later this year) for 39 more Apaches for three attack helicopter squadrons to be deployed with its three strike corps. The Indian Air Force deal includes 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30 mm ammunition, transponders and simulators.

Sweet, some real bad ass puppies coming our way. The IA should be looking at 52 really since, they'll be adding the next corps i.e the 17th Mount Strike corps i.e 13 birds per squadron. Navy should also think about 16 or so for the 4 LHDs (4 per ship) to aid in Amphibious Assaults

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 01 Oct 2014 19:13

shiv wrote:
If we can see enemies as snakes, Janmajeya is needed to take them out. It's not a bad name but it does not conform to Macaulayite sensibilities. We have such a rich heritage - so no need to restrict ourselves to simple analogies of tribal desert cultures

The name Janmajeya sort of defies the cosmic reference nomenclature style of HAL (Tejas, Sitara, Dhruv, Rudra etc). I for one wished that LCH be named Mahakaal, another anologue of 'Rudra' and cosmic reference in itself.

koti · Post by **koti** » 01 Oct 2014 19:28

I don't like the name if it. Neither do I think Tejas is good enough.

I am surprised why Gandeev has never been used for anything.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 01 Oct 2014 22:19

Kartik wrote:Article claims that first 22 Apaches will be operated by the IAF and the next 39 will be operated by the IA...thats a total of 61 Apaches.

Apache capability blitzkreig for IAF as decks cleared for deal

The Indian Air Force will operate the first 22 Apaches, while the Indian Army will contract (negotiations will begin later this year) for 39 more Apaches for three attack helicopter squadrons to be deployed with its three strike corps. The Indian Air Force deal includes 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30 mm ammunition, transponders and simulators.

..

Is there any possibility in the future that the army can operate all of these?
Is there any difference between iaf operational deployment of these birds to that of IA?

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 01 Oct 2014 22:25

koti wrote:I don't like the name if it. Neither do I think Tejas is good enough.
I am surprised why Gandeev has never been used for anything.

Or Prachanda

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 01 Oct 2014 23:15

koti wrote:I don't like the name if it. Neither do I think Tejas is good enough.
I am surprised why Gandeev has never been used for anything.

the 120 mm main gun of Arjun is named Gandeev, an awesomely appropriate name

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 02 Oct 2014 00:13

Pratyush wrote:LCH, has a name. It is called Janmjeya.

How about Aatank ! A little bollywoody

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Oct 2014 00:21

shiv wrote: We had the same round of objections when we heard the name Dhruv and the name Tejas. These are all great names from our past. Names like "Sting, Spear, Sabre, Scorpion, Arrow, Wolf, Lion, Raptor, Cobra" etc are simplistic ones that "sound badass" - but we have a history of badass people doing badass things while they had real names. Sometimes those names can help us reconnect with a culture and imagery that our education has discarded.

Well, selecting a name from our culture and "sounding badass" need not be mutually exclusive. Both HAL and the IAF have done this before. HAL named the HF-24 as "Marut", the armed Dhruv as "Rudra" and the IAF named the M2K as "Vajra". They are badass enough. Janmejaya doesn't seem to cut it IMHO.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 02 Oct 2014 01:35

I think Trishul would be a good choice but for the abandoned Trishul SAM program.

member_27164 · Post by **member_27164** » 02 Oct 2014 11:42

Venu wrote:
koti wrote:I don't like the name if it. Neither do I think Tejas is good enough.
I am surprised why Gandeev has never been used for anything.
Or Prachanda

venu sahab, looking at the size of tejas or LCH prachanda is inappropriate name for either of them. its good for c-17 or il-76 sized birds.
i think janmajeya is good name. irrespective of who the person was if we only consider the meaning of the name, it means 'winner by birth' (or invincible by birth in other words). in my opinion they should have named rudra to lch and janmajeya to wsi dhruv.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 02 Oct 2014 16:03

Whatever happened to the move to fit a GMTI radar on Dhruv ?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 02 Oct 2014 17:39

reading this one would think - enemy soldiers would fear it based on a name

If they fear it they will come up with their own name -

Hind??? well if I am not mistaken the LTTe called it Crocodile

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Oct 2014 20:02

That "tiger/lion" logo on the LCH may be a clue to what its creators want for its name

पक्षिसिंह (pakSisiMha) -> lion among birds

Or sticking to Shiva themes:
रुद्र (Rudra) -> "storm"
भैरव (Bhairava) -> "terrible/frightful"
काली (Kali) -> "Time/Death"
शक्ति (Shakti) -> "Power"

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 02 Oct 2014 22:22

srai - Bhairav or Kaala or Simha would be an apt name...

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Oct 2014 08:56

This is the second Dhruv that I have seen with Pall PUREair system. The previous one was an IAF Dhruv. Does anybody know how many Dhruvs are fitted with this system and on what criteria?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Oct 2014 09:34

Venu wrote:
koti wrote:I don't like the name if it. Neither do I think Tejas is good enough.
I am surprised why Gandeev has never been used for anything.
Or Prachanda

may be this is why ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prachanda

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 05 Oct 2014 09:36

Good decision to fit these purification systems - French engine is the most expensive component and any steps to extend engine life will save money....