LCA News and Discussions

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RKumar
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby RKumar » 31 Jan 2011 01:44

vina wrote:
basic question...how would they perform a wake penetration test? I mean the aircraft needs to be subjected to different "wake" profiles right? how would they create the "wake"?


By flying an aircraft in front of course! How else? And then test whether you can enter from right behind, from top to bottom, diagonally, bottom to up, enter while turning, different altitude, speeds etc!


Just watching Top Jets movie .... there is 20 sec clip where a fighter flies in front of a commercial plane. Which causes the commercial plane going out of control. During watching this discussion came into my mind .... so post it here ... going back to my movie :)

SaiK
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 31 Jan 2011 06:25

Kartik wrote:whatever improves the STR the most, should be incorporated.


any possibilities that it may look like this?
http://img103.exs.cx/img103/9742/windtu ... al12td.jpg

sumshyam
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby sumshyam » 31 Jan 2011 07:01

SaiK wrote:http://img103.exs.cx/img103/9742/windtunnelmodelnal12td.jpg



It looks like having a touch of Typhoon. 8) 8)

nits
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby nits » 31 Jan 2011 08:40

Marten wrote:Pic is likely inaccurate fan-art. There is no change in the wing size whereas PS had already stated there would be an increase.

Nicer Square intake shapes would be really nice TFTA (not sure how they affect the a/c though).


As i mentioned in my post; its an unofficial pic and send to arror by his fan...

Drishyaman
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Drishyaman » 31 Jan 2011 22:09

Moving the landing gear in Grippen from under the fuselage to the wingroots freed up space to house 40% more internal fuel and the weapons station has increased from 8 to 10.

Can't this be attempted in LCA MK-II ?

Kartik
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 31 Jan 2011 23:39

Cain Marko wrote:
Weight loss perhaps since the splitter plate will be dumped? Not that I am advocating it - I'd just like to see them keep the empty weight @ 6500kg or below. That will surely go a long way in alleviating those TWR, STR issues imho! If they can increase internal fuel capacity plus add IFR capability, that would be another worthy goal. Fancy goals would include an IRST and perhaps conformal carriage of weapons plus AESA.

CM.


CM, the Tejas Mk1 has fixed inlets that don't change shape as per the speed of the aircraft. So even if you eliminate the splitter plate and add a DSI bump instead, you won't really get a large weight saving. Conversely, if the DSI isn't designed well (being a first time effort and all that), there will be more issues of pressure recovery which may only hamper performance.

I hope that they keep the same number of pylons/hardpoints or at most add 2 wing-tip pylons and leave it at that instead of adding more payload capacity. Just concentrate on improving the performance and maybe relocate landing gear to include an additional fuel tank for more internal fuel if that is considered necessary by IAF.

The Tejas Mk2 doesn't have to lug around an advertised 7000 kg payload like SAAB claims for the Gripen NG. They can save weight on not needing that much strengthening of the airframe. They need to just concentrate on the performance improvements, AESA radar and possibly an IRST (if there is any space in the nose left at all to fit it). The more the scope is, the more the weight is, and the higher the likelihood that they'll not meet the IAF's specs.

Philip
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 01 Feb 2011 12:18

Here is Flight Intl/'s take on Tejas,pros and cons.Interesting analysis in comparison with "BRitons"!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... rvice.html

Some quotes:

Nayak's comments hint at the weight issues that plague the Mk I. The aircraft's official weight has yet to be published. Nayak says the Mk II will bring a complete reconfiguration of internal equipment to create a more agile aircraft. "The Mk II is only on the drawing board," he adds.

Despite its critics, who generally condemn Tejas as being behind schedule, overweight and inferior to similar light fighters produced elsewhere, the programme is arguably not so much about producing a world-beating light fighter aircraft, but building a foundation of learning for future projects. This suggests Tejas is just a single step on a decades-long journey to a globally competitive Indian defence aerospace industry.


The milestones achieved in the past 12 months come after two decades of frustration and failure for the Tejas. The fighter's powerplant was originally supposed to be the Kaveri engine developed by the government-run Gas Turbine Research Establishment. As of 2009, the GTRE had spent Rs20 billion ($455 million) over the 20-year programme, only to produce an overweight engine unable to provide the 21,000-22,500lb thrust (93-100kN) required.


SOBERING FACT

When presented with this idea, one critic likens it to "making a virtue out of a necessity". Another points to the sobering fact that, ultimately, combat aircraft are for fighting in wars. If the Tejas is, as many suspect, an inferior combat platform, the fact that the project has helped India's aircraft industry will be cold comfort to Tejas pilots.

One expert suggests that, in the event of war, the Indian air force would probably hold the Tejas back from high-threat situations and let aircraft such as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Sepecat Jaguar, Dassault Mirage, and the eventual winner of India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest, deal with high-intensity combat.

"Tejas is a prime example of the dispute between the guys in lab coats and guys in flight suits," says Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia, referring to the heavy government involvement in the project.

Nonetheless, India is determined to press on with development of its indigenous fighter industry. It has committed to 40 Tejas Mk Is, and is likely to buy 40 more, says Nayak. These first aircraft will all be powered by the F404, and will be followed by 80 F414-powered Mk IIs.



HOW THE CRITICS SEE TEJAS

TEAL Group analyst Richard Aboulafia questions the viability of both the Tejas Mk I and Mk II. "Allowing for some residual face-saving, dreams of an indigenous engine are over," he says. "In fact, dreams of using a 19,000lb [85kN] engine have ended too, as speed and weight concerns became all to clear."

Aboulafia also questions how indigenous the aircraft really is, noting that the engine, radar, weapons and other key components are produced overseas. "This renders the national security/weapons autonomy rationale for the Tejas utterly false," he says.

An executive involved in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition is equally dubious. "If they had got the Tejas right, they wouldn't need to do the MMRCA," he says.


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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby svinayak » 01 Feb 2011 12:31

Philip wrote:H

HOW THE CRITICS SEE TEJAS

TEAL Group analyst Richard Aboulafia questions the viability of both the Tejas Mk I and Mk II. "Allowing for some residual face-saving, dreams of an indigenous engine are over," he says. "In fact, dreams of using a 19,000lb [85kN] engine have ended too, as speed and weight concerns became all to clear."

Aboulafia also questions how indigenous the aircraft really is, noting that the engine, radar, weapons and other key components are produced overseas. "This renders the national security/weapons autonomy rationale for the Tejas utterly false," he says.

An executive involved in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition is equally dubious. "If they had got the Tejas right, they wouldn't need to do the MMRCA," he says.


This is totally crap analysis for a country which has been on sanctions for more than 40 years for tech

Austin
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2011 13:02

vina wrote:I do think that the Snecma JV will be true design and manufacturing partnership. That only those who signed the contract will know how it is going to be done. In any case,even if Snecma doesn't ToT anything, but makes them all in India with it's prop technology, it will be fine. It is still far better than importing and assembling engines from CKD.


Yes perhaps the cost will end up being on the lower side rather then direct imports and that too from french who would ask for an arm and leg. { look at M2K upgrade cost :rotfl: }

I doubt that the single crystal manufacturing tech was actually transferred via the SU-30 MKI deal. I would be very surprised if it happened. They probably final machine the blades from blocks supplied from Russia at best.


No , the TOT for SCB was confirmed earlier by Ashok Baweja ex HAL Chairman and even by Russian head , but these seems to not have helped much in our engine program.

That is the reason I doubt when they go to the town with TOT for every new deal we hear about , its probably a glorified name for Lic Production and some one paying more and some one asking more while the middle men makes more from both parties.

Probably not worth the trouble of qualifying that plane with a new engine , especially if GE makes the engine in India /ToTs the bulk of GE414 to India for manufacturing, just like the AL-31 for the MKI. I do think the engine deal that got signed and which GE won over the EJ200 has those ToT and manufacturing provisions.


Which engine deal you mean for Mk2 ? its a small number to have any TOT or even lic manuf , 100engines would hardly justify that , even MKI engines goes into more than 700 odd engines to justify local production.

I think GE is still a better bet then Snecma for Engine deal , we have spent thousand hours testing GE engine on Tejas Mk1 and would be doing the same for Mk2 , so the platform/engine combination is well validated and there is the relationship that has been built over decade between GE/ADA ,GE certainly have big orders from India,US,Sweden to keep innovating on 414 , so it benefits and lowers the cost for all 3 parties.

Bharadwaj
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Bharadwaj » 01 Feb 2011 13:03

The fear is now very real and the "vested interest" lot is starting to panic. The phoren maal lobbies shrillness is directly proportional to the Tejas's progress.

Singha
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2011 13:14

boo woo ha ha. good.


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