Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Baldev
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Baldev » 11 Mar 2011 00:45

akaash is heavier because of half of the length is occupied by ramjet engine
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http ... 80&bih=796
the green cylinder in the picture represnt fuel, so either fuel is increased by 50% to increase the range or have newer missile with solid motor because solid motor is much smaller than ramjet and there is more room for more fuel in the same weight.

although akaash is much better than anything in inventory.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2011 01:25

baldev, I may be mistaken (as often I am told!) but the Akash ramjet is the fact that air/oxygen is provided from atmosphere once it gets to some speed. IOW the solid fuel does not carry any oxidant.

Aside isn't SA-3 GOA range more than the Akash Mark 2?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby karan_mc » 11 Mar 2011 09:10

@ ramana , if i am not wrong SA-3 (V-600 Variant) has a Max range of 15 km , and V-601 variant has Max 35 km effective (higher kill percentage) range is around 15 to 25km . AKASH MK-2 will have range around 37-39km . it is right replacement .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2011 09:38

Sorry I thought it was for SA-5!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 11 Mar 2011 09:53

How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby marimuthu » 11 Mar 2011 10:19

Flash news says Dhanush testfired

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Nihat » 11 Mar 2011 10:34

ks_sachin wrote:How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....


very, NAG is carried on a cehicle today - just visualize the scale of effort required to make it light enough so it can be carried on a jawans shoulder.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 11 Mar 2011 10:40

Nihat wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....


very, NAG is carried on a cehicle today - just visualize the scale of effort required to make it light enough so it can be carried on a jawans shoulder.



tsktsktskts..I know that.....

Let me rephrase...If the DRDO was to design from scratch something like the Javelin what would be the work involved.....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby dinesha » 11 Mar 2011 10:53

Nuclear-capable Dhanush missile test fired
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nucle ... ed/761041/

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby jamwal » 11 Mar 2011 11:39

Why is navy interested in inducting Dhanush ? I can't be carried on submarines, only ships. Range is limited and there are better missiles entering service.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby karan_mc » 11 Mar 2011 11:53

Navy and Drdo team test fires nuclear-capable ballistic missile ‘Dhanush’


Link

India today test fired its nuclear-capable ballistic missile ‘Dhanush’, with a range of 350 km, from a naval ship off the Orissa coast, defence sources said.The missile was fired by Indian Navy personnel as part of user training exercise.
“The single-stage ship-based missile was flight-tested at around 1005 hours and the trial was conducted from a naval ship off Orissa coast in the sea at a spot between Paradip and Puri,” the sources said.

“Dhanush” has a pay-load capacity of 500 kg and is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads. It can hit both sea and shore-based targets.

The missile, which has liquid propellant, is the naval version of India’s indigenously developed surface-to-surface “Prithvi” missile system, the sources said.

“Dhanush, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), was put to trial jointly by a team of scientists and officers from the Navy,” they said.

“Today’s test launch has been tracked from its take-off to impact point through an integrated network of sophisticated radars and electro-optic instruments for post-mission data analyses,” the sources said.

Though the missile had failed in its first test at the development stage on April 11, 2000 due to certain technical problems in the take-off stage, subsequent trials were successful.

“Dhanush” was successfully flight tested last on March 27, 2010 from INS Subhadra in the Bay of Bengal off Orissa coast.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Vril » 11 Mar 2011 12:02

Rediff:

After Dhanush, Prithvi II test fired successfully: Indigenously developed, nuclear-capable ballistic missile Prithvi-II was today test- fired from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur, near Balasore in Orissa, in less than an hour after N-capable missile Dhanush was flight testedfrom a naval ship.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 11 Mar 2011 13:02

Wonder if it really the Dhanush + Prithvi-2 being fired or the K-15 + Shaurya combo being fired in the Prithvi name?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 11 Mar 2011 13:23

Dhanush and Prithvi II missiles tested by India

I will expand more, when next round of news comes in.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby srai » 11 Mar 2011 13:33

sameer_shelavale wrote:Akash Mark-II version will be ready by 2012 : DRDO
DRDO with its recent success in getting orders worth Rs 23,300-crore from Indian air force and Indian army for its Akash SAM ,is currently working on a improved Mark-II version of the surface to air missile and will have its first flight test by end of 2012 .

Akash Mark-II version will carry Minor critical improvement over Mark-1 variant and will not be a completely new missile , DRDO for this reason has not asked for any additional funding from the center for this improvement . New MK-2 will have better accuracy and will also be little faster then the current variant.

Mark-2 variant will also will have faster reaction time to cover the threat and will have an minor extended range to the missile which will be 10 to 12 km improvement over the Mark-1 variant . Mark-2 variant will be replacing old soviet union acquired SA-3 GOA (Pechora) SAM systems.

India’s plans to fortify North Eastern border area with China by installing Akash MK-1 close to the border there , DRDO expects Air force and Army will order more of Akash MK-1 and MK-2 SAM batteries to cover lot of non covered area in North east and western Borders .

DRDO still has not proposed any longer range variant of SAM yet , but Barak-8 which DRDO is developing jointly with Israelis for the Indian Navy might have a Land based variant to cover this requirement in future .


It would seem the Akash Mk.2 variant will likely have any or combination of the following:
  • a slightly larger solid-propellant booster than the Mk.1 configuration
  • the ramjet motor will burn slightly longer than the Mk.1 configuration
  • higher speed at the solid-propellant booster phase and/or at the ramjet motor sustained phase

Even a few seconds additional burn time on the above two or speed will result in additional 10-12km in range.

Akash SAM Mk.1
... The solid-propellant booster accelerates the missile in 4.5 seconds to Mach 1.5, which is then jettisoned and the ramjet motor is then ignited for 30 seconds to Mach 2.8 - 3.5 at 20g. ...

chackojoseph
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 11 Mar 2011 14:11

chackojoseph wrote:Dhanush and Prithvi II missiles tested by India

I will expand more, when next round of news comes in.


I just added that Dhanush will have a 500 Kms range with lighter warhead.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby neerajb » 11 Mar 2011 14:21

Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Mar 2011 14:34

neerajb wrote:Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....


I dont agree

1) Akash can be automatically launched towards threat
2) SA-3 Goa needs the Operator to be constantly queing the missile to its target
3) Akash has faster speed
4) Rajendra Radar is more Advanced- Sa-3 can engage only 1 target at a time.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 11 Mar 2011 15:08

^^ Damn, there goes my theory/wet dream of some sneaky new missile being fired under the guise of P-II..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby neerajb » 11 Mar 2011 15:42

Aditya_V wrote:
neerajb wrote:Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....


I dont agree

1) Akash can be automatically launched towards threat
2) SA-3 Goa needs the Operator to be constantly queing the missile to its target
3) Akash has faster speed
4) Rajendra Radar is more Advanced- Sa-3 can engage only 1 target at a time.


I meant range, altitude, Pks single/salvo etc. Sa-3 has auto mode as well so continueous operator involvement is not required. Operator is helpful in high ECM environment. Akash MK1 is essentially developed around Sa-3 specs with advanced features thrown in like phased array radar and digital systems. Akash MK1 is mach 2.5, Sa-3 has more speed due to solid rocket motor.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 11 Mar 2011 15:51


saje
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby saje » 11 Mar 2011 18:19

jamwal wrote:Why is navy interested in inducting Dhanush ? I can't be carried on submarines, only ships. Range is limited and there are better missiles entering service.


Jamwal, here's my theory based on a small typo on the below website.

http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2007/06/ ... siles.html

In the article there is a photo of the Dhanush missile with the caption "India's Prithvi SRBM on a Dhanush Stabilizer (launcher assembly)". What the description seems to suggest (maybe erroneously) is that 'Dhanush' is not the missile but the launcher which is used to fire a Prithvi missile from a ship. I would like to follow that erroneous assumption and suggest that the Dhanush missile project is not a missile project per se but a project which aims to demonstrate missile-launch-capability from any ship.

My feeling is that the end result of the Dhanush missile project will be a nuclear-tipped Prithvi or 'Prithvi-sized' (maybe the smaller and stubbier Agni variants) missile quitely stationed on a merchant ship in any of own/friendly foreign ports. Why go through all this trouble you ask?! Well, I think someone in our defence establishment has correctly imagined the worst-case scenario of a nuclear attack on us -- of us being so out nuked that we are unable to respond with any of the famed 'nuclear triad'. In such a scenario, our only hope of retribution on our enemies might be a 'harmless-looking' merchant ship which will harmlessly sail close to the shore of the enemy nation/s and shove a nuke missile up their hindside just when they are celebrating over us with green and red flags!

But then this is just my imagination.


ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2011 21:06

Jamwal,
The Dhanush gives the IN a sea-based capability till the subs come on line. BTW, during Parakram it was the IN that was in launch positions first and managed the escalation.

The above tests show the one two punch from sea and land that can be dleivered. Note the same down range ship observed the splashdown.

I wish that tests by operational units are announced by the forces and not DRDO. While DRDO should get the credit for developing the vehicles, its time for the forces to be in charge and remove the ambiguity about development.

Having the SFC do the announcements shows a clean break in the development phase and operational phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Anujan » 11 Mar 2011 22:07

They are also practicing missile storage, auditing, chain of command and launch drills.

Also note that the experience they gain means that not only Prithvi, but its fourth cousin PDV can also be launched from ships.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Reddy » 12 Mar 2011 04:58

saje wrote:In the article there is a photo of the Dhanush missile with the caption "India's Prithvi SRBM on a Dhanush Stabilizer (launcher assembly)". What the description seems to suggest (maybe erroneously) is that 'Dhanush' is not the missile but the launcher which is used to fire a Prithvi missile from a ship. I would like to follow that erroneous assumption and suggest that the Dhanush missile project is not a missile project per se but a project which aims to demonstrate missile-launch-capability from any ship.


This was discussed years ago here at BR.
Dhanush = Bow, the name says all there is to say about this project.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 13 Mar 2011 01:06

BrahMos underwater test-firing by year-end
The BrahMos would also be test-fired underwater by year-end and fitted on Sukhoi fighters by next year, BrahMos Aerospace chief A. Sivathanu Pillai said on Saturday.
:
“If we are able to reduce the weight of the missile below two tonnes, we can deploy it on the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) and we are looking to doing that in future,” he said speaking at the Press Club of India here. The FGFA is a joint venture aircraft development programme under which India will induct 250-300 of these advanced planes.
:
No row with Russia
:

SaiK
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 13 Mar 2011 04:11

Nice move by drdo to put BrahMos on FGFA, so that the Russians consider potential business and come to an agreement on MKI modification costs.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 13 Mar 2011 15:06

And also we don't have to go through the harrowing experience of negotiating a new deal all over again for integrating BrahMos (most likely the hypersonic BrahMos) on the FGFA.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Devendra » 13 Mar 2011 16:56

Miss the deep analysis/gyan of Arun S on this thread...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratik_S » 13 Mar 2011 17:14


Pratyush
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 13 Mar 2011 18:40



Any ideas on the possible under water launch platform that will be used for this test. I think that will be an interesting thing to watch.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Mar 2011 19:05

Pratyush wrote:Any ideas on the possible under water launch platform that will be used for this test. I think that will be an interesting thing to watch.


The test would be carried from a modified pontoon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 14 Mar 2011 13:43

IIRC INS Sindhushastra is modified to fire Brahmos from its torpedo tubes(??).
Similar mods have been taken place on 2 more subs....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 14 Mar 2011 13:53

I doubt IN has any subs to spare for Brahmos test considering the long refit it will go through and its highly unlikely they will get a 650 mm TT.

The pontoon test will be done in India and sub trials in Russia on some ( VLS ) test platform ,which they have to do such test , remember the Pontoon test is a VLS launch

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 15 Mar 2011 14:13

I have been asking this question quite often. Are there any paan wala or chai wala who can confrim or deny the existence for the plans for a follow up order for NAG beyond the ones already ordered.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 15 Mar 2011 16:29

Can the INS Chakra fire Brahmos? I mean both from VLS and Torpedo tubes.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby nachiket » 15 Mar 2011 22:13

koti wrote:Can the INS Chakra fire Brahmos? I mean both from VLS and Torpedo tubes.

It doesn't have VLS. It can fire the Klub from the Torpedo tubes.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby kvraghavaiah » 16 Mar 2011 07:03

Pratyush wrote:I have been asking this question quite often. Are there any paan wala or chai wala who can confrim or deny the existence for the plans for a follow up order for NAG beyond the ones already ordered.

Were there some(limited) orders alreaday?
as per one of the top DRDO officials, in a recent news article, "we are expecting that army will give orders for NAG as its evaluation is over"

'But, when is it?' is not known


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