Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Post Reply
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

baldev, I may be mistaken (as often I am told!) but the Akash ramjet is the fact that air/oxygen is provided from atmosphere once it gets to some speed. IOW the solid fuel does not carry any oxidant.

Aside isn't SA-3 GOA range more than the Akash Mark 2?
karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

@ ramana , if i am not wrong SA-3 (V-600 Variant) has a Max range of 15 km , and V-601 variant has Max 35 km effective (higher kill percentage) range is around 15 to 25km . AKASH MK-2 will have range around 37-39km . it is right replacement .
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Sorry I thought it was for SA-5!
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....
marimuthu
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 09:17
Location: India

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by marimuthu »

Flash news says Dhanush testfired
Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1330
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Nihat »

ks_sachin wrote:How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....
very, NAG is carried on a cehicle today - just visualize the scale of effort required to make it light enough so it can be carried on a jawans shoulder.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Nihat wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:How difficult is it to scale down the Nag to make it manportable.....
very, NAG is carried on a cehicle today - just visualize the scale of effort required to make it light enough so it can be carried on a jawans shoulder.

tsktsktskts..I know that.....

Let me rephrase...If the DRDO was to design from scratch something like the Javelin what would be the work involved.....
dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1211
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by dinesha »

Nuclear-capable Dhanush missile test fired
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nucle ... ed/761041/
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Why is navy interested in inducting Dhanush ? I can't be carried on submarines, only ships. Range is limited and there are better missiles entering service.
karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

Navy and Drdo team test fires nuclear-capable ballistic missile ‘Dhanush’
Link
India today test fired its nuclear-capable ballistic missile ‘Dhanush’, with a range of 350 km, from a naval ship off the Orissa coast, defence sources said.The missile was fired by Indian Navy personnel as part of user training exercise.
“The single-stage ship-based missile was flight-tested at around 1005 hours and the trial was conducted from a naval ship off Orissa coast in the sea at a spot between Paradip and Puri,” the sources said.

“Dhanush” has a pay-load capacity of 500 kg and is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads. It can hit both sea and shore-based targets.

The missile, which has liquid propellant, is the naval version of India’s indigenously developed surface-to-surface “Prithvi” missile system, the sources said.

“Dhanush, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), was put to trial jointly by a team of scientists and officers from the Navy,” they said.

“Today’s test launch has been tracked from its take-off to impact point through an integrated network of sophisticated radars and electro-optic instruments for post-mission data analyses,” the sources said.

Though the missile had failed in its first test at the development stage on April 11, 2000 due to certain technical problems in the take-off stage, subsequent trials were successful.

“Dhanush” was successfully flight tested last on March 27, 2010 from INS Subhadra in the Bay of Bengal off Orissa coast.
Vril
BRFite
Posts: 285
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 20:05

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Vril »

Rediff:

After Dhanush, Prithvi II test fired successfully: Indigenously developed, nuclear-capable ballistic missile Prithvi-II was today test- fired from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur, near Balasore in Orissa, in less than an hour after N-capable missile Dhanush was flight testedfrom a naval ship.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10195
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sum »

Wonder if it really the Dhanush + Prithvi-2 being fired or the K-15 + Shaurya combo being fired in the Prithvi name?
chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Dhanush and Prithvi II missiles tested by India

I will expand more, when next round of news comes in.
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5245
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by srai »

sameer_shelavale wrote:Akash Mark-II version will be ready by 2012 : DRDO
DRDO with its recent success in getting orders worth Rs 23,300-crore from Indian air force and Indian army for its Akash SAM ,is currently working on a improved Mark-II version of the surface to air missile and will have its first flight test by end of 2012 .

Akash Mark-II version will carry Minor critical improvement over Mark-1 variant and will not be a completely new missile , DRDO for this reason has not asked for any additional funding from the center for this improvement . New MK-2 will have better accuracy and will also be little faster then the current variant.

Mark-2 variant will also will have faster reaction time to cover the threat and will have an minor extended range to the missile which will be 10 to 12 km improvement over the Mark-1 variant . Mark-2 variant will be replacing old soviet union acquired SA-3 GOA (Pechora) SAM systems.

India’s plans to fortify North Eastern border area with China by installing Akash MK-1 close to the border there , DRDO expects Air force and Army will order more of Akash MK-1 and MK-2 SAM batteries to cover lot of non covered area in North east and western Borders .

DRDO still has not proposed any longer range variant of SAM yet , but Barak-8 which DRDO is developing jointly with Israelis for the Indian Navy might have a Land based variant to cover this requirement in future .
It would seem the Akash Mk.2 variant will likely have any or combination of the following:
  • a slightly larger solid-propellant booster than the Mk.1 configuration
  • the ramjet motor will burn slightly longer than the Mk.1 configuration
  • higher speed at the solid-propellant booster phase and/or at the ramjet motor sustained phase
Even a few seconds additional burn time on the above two or speed will result in additional 10-12km in range.

Akash SAM Mk.1
... The solid-propellant booster accelerates the missile in 4.5 seconds to Mach 1.5, which is then jettisoned and the ramjet motor is then ignited for 30 seconds to Mach 2.8 - 3.5 at 20g. ...
chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

chackojoseph wrote:Dhanush and Prithvi II missiles tested by India

I will expand more, when next round of news comes in.
I just added that Dhanush will have a 500 Kms range with lighter warhead.
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 853
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

neerajb wrote:Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....
I dont agree

1) Akash can be automatically launched towards threat
2) SA-3 Goa needs the Operator to be constantly queing the missile to its target
3) Akash has faster speed
4) Rajendra Radar is more Advanced- Sa-3 can engage only 1 target at a time.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10195
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Damn, there goes my theory/wet dream of some sneaky new missile being fired under the guise of P-II..
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 853
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Aditya_V wrote:
neerajb wrote:Actually Akash MK-1 has "exactly" the same specs as Sa-3 in IAF service including kill probabilities.

Cheers....
I dont agree

1) Akash can be automatically launched towards threat
2) SA-3 Goa needs the Operator to be constantly queing the missile to its target
3) Akash has faster speed
4) Rajendra Radar is more Advanced- Sa-3 can engage only 1 target at a time.
I meant range, altitude, Pks single/salvo etc. Sa-3 has auto mode as well so continueous operator involvement is not required. Operator is helpful in high ECM environment. Akash MK1 is essentially developed around Sa-3 specs with advanced features thrown in like phased array radar and digital systems. Akash MK1 is mach 2.5, Sa-3 has more speed due to solid rocket motor.

Cheers....
chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

saje
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 08 Oct 2010 16:28
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by saje »

jamwal wrote:Why is navy interested in inducting Dhanush ? I can't be carried on submarines, only ships. Range is limited and there are better missiles entering service.
Jamwal, here's my theory based on a small typo on the below website.

http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2007/06/ ... siles.html

In the article there is a photo of the Dhanush missile with the caption "India's Prithvi SRBM on a Dhanush Stabilizer (launcher assembly)". What the description seems to suggest (maybe erroneously) is that 'Dhanush' is not the missile but the launcher which is used to fire a Prithvi missile from a ship. I would like to follow that erroneous assumption and suggest that the Dhanush missile project is not a missile project per se but a project which aims to demonstrate missile-launch-capability from any ship.

My feeling is that the end result of the Dhanush missile project will be a nuclear-tipped Prithvi or 'Prithvi-sized' (maybe the smaller and stubbier Agni variants) missile quitely stationed on a merchant ship in any of own/friendly foreign ports. Why go through all this trouble you ask?! Well, I think someone in our defence establishment has correctly imagined the worst-case scenario of a nuclear attack on us -- of us being so out nuked that we are unable to respond with any of the famed 'nuclear triad'. In such a scenario, our only hope of retribution on our enemies might be a 'harmless-looking' merchant ship which will harmlessly sail close to the shore of the enemy nation/s and shove a nuke missile up their hindside just when they are celebrating over us with green and red flags!

But then this is just my imagination.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Jamwal,
The Dhanush gives the IN a sea-based capability till the subs come on line. BTW, during Parakram it was the IN that was in launch positions first and managed the escalation.

The above tests show the one two punch from sea and land that can be dleivered. Note the same down range ship observed the splashdown.

I wish that tests by operational units are announced by the forces and not DRDO. While DRDO should get the credit for developing the vehicles, its time for the forces to be in charge and remove the ambiguity about development.

Having the SFC do the announcements shows a clean break in the development phase and operational phase.
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7807
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Anujan »

They are also practicing missile storage, auditing, chain of command and launch drills.

Also note that the experience they gain means that not only Prithvi, but its fourth cousin PDV can also be launched from ships.
Reddy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 15:06

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Reddy »

saje wrote: In the article there is a photo of the Dhanush missile with the caption "India's Prithvi SRBM on a Dhanush Stabilizer (launcher assembly)". What the description seems to suggest (maybe erroneously) is that 'Dhanush' is not the missile but the launcher which is used to fire a Prithvi missile from a ship. I would like to follow that erroneous assumption and suggest that the Dhanush missile project is not a missile project per se but a project which aims to demonstrate missile-launch-capability from any ship.
This was discussed years ago here at BR.
Dhanush = Bow, the name says all there is to say about this project.
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2982
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

BrahMos underwater test-firing by year-end
The BrahMos would also be test-fired underwater by year-end and fitted on Sukhoi fighters by next year, BrahMos Aerospace chief A. Sivathanu Pillai said on Saturday.
:
“If we are able to reduce the weight of the missile below two tonnes, we can deploy it on the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) and we are looking to doing that in future,” he said speaking at the Press Club of India here. The FGFA is a joint venture aircraft development programme under which India will induct 250-300 of these advanced planes.
:
No row with Russia
:
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Nice move by drdo to put BrahMos on FGFA, so that the Russians consider potential business and come to an agreement on MKI modification costs.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

And also we don't have to go through the harrowing experience of negotiating a new deal all over again for integrating BrahMos (most likely the hypersonic BrahMos) on the FGFA.
Devendra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 35
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 21:06

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Devendra »

Miss the deep analysis/gyan of Arun S on this thread...
Pratik_S
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 21:19
Location: In the Lion's Den
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Pratik_S »

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12195
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Any ideas on the possible under water launch platform that will be used for this test. I think that will be an interesting thing to watch.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Austin »

Pratyush wrote:Any ideas on the possible under water launch platform that will be used for this test. I think that will be an interesting thing to watch.
The test would be carried from a modified pontoon.
koti
BRFite
Posts: 1118
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by koti »

IIRC INS Sindhushastra is modified to fire Brahmos from its torpedo tubes(??).
Similar mods have been taken place on 2 more subs....
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Austin »

I doubt IN has any subs to spare for Brahmos test considering the long refit it will go through and its highly unlikely they will get a 650 mm TT.

The pontoon test will be done in India and sub trials in Russia on some ( VLS ) test platform ,which they have to do such test , remember the Pontoon test is a VLS launch
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12195
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I have been asking this question quite often. Are there any paan wala or chai wala who can confrim or deny the existence for the plans for a follow up order for NAG beyond the ones already ordered.
koti
BRFite
Posts: 1118
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by koti »

Can the INS Chakra fire Brahmos? I mean both from VLS and Torpedo tubes.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by nachiket »

koti wrote:Can the INS Chakra fire Brahmos? I mean both from VLS and Torpedo tubes.
It doesn't have VLS. It can fire the Klub from the Torpedo tubes.
kvraghavaiah
BRFite
Posts: 126
Joined: 16 Feb 2008 17:20
Location: Chennai
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by kvraghavaiah »

Pratyush wrote:I have been asking this question quite often. Are there any paan wala or chai wala who can confrim or deny the existence for the plans for a follow up order for NAG beyond the ones already ordered.
Were there some(limited) orders alreaday?
as per one of the top DRDO officials, in a recent news article, "we are expecting that army will give orders for NAG as its evaluation is over"

'But, when is it?' is not known
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Key Cooling System for Indo-Israeli MR-SAM Project developed
A key cooling system for a large radar system being built under an Indo-Israeli joint venture project has been successfully developed by Hemair Systems India Ltd (HSIL).

The first indigenous cooling system has been custom built for the joint venture — MRSAM (medium range surface to air missile) system — for the Indian Air Force. It ensures the thermal stability of the radar by producing and circulating cool water at 17 degrees C.

The first unit was handed over to Mr S.K. Ray, Director of the RCI, a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) lab, here today, by Mr Srinivasa Rao, Managing Director of Hemair. The ruggedised version is far cheaper, but matches the quality as tested by the DRDO.

Speaking at the event, Dr V.K. Saraswat, Chief of DRDO and Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister, said, “We needed a cooling system that was effective in Indian conditions. The imported one's were more suitable for European conditions. The decision to build indigenously led to awarding the challenge to Hemair under the joint venture.”

He said the huge projects under the Defence Ministry have opened up many opportunities to Indian industry. The 26 per cent FDI (foreign direct investment) and new policy initiatives have also thrown up possibilities of joint ventures with international companies. The MRSAM is one such example.

Investment

The MRSAM envisages Rs 1,500 crore investment at the development stage and several thousands of crore at the production stage. The first prototype, including the radar, launcher of the missile, should be ready for testing in 2012, he explained.

Describing the cooling system as the “heart of the radar,” Mr Ray said the missile being developed will have a range of 70 km. He pointed out that quality of products was a major concern for the DRDO now, as the defence sector has entered the large scale manufacturing phase. He urged the industry to ponder over ensuring quality.

Mr Srinivasa Rao said, “The product, which costs less than a crore, is not available commercially or manufactured in the organised sector. The company, with a turnover of Rs 65 crore, six operating plans (including one in UK) and 500 employees is expecting multiple orders soon from the project.”
Image
The Radar Cooling System, designed and manufactured by Hemair Systems India Limited, in Hyderabad. Photo: M. Subhash , Courtesy: Business Line
Post Reply