Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 24 Nov 2010 20:19

New Philosophy Driving Indian Missile Programs

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 24 Nov 2010 20:40

As BGVR also does that..

From your generalization it should be concluded then that ballistic RV, MRV and BGRV are more or less same.. not much difference then?
I thought for a RV to be characterized as a BGRV amongst other thing the projectile should be capable of deviating from the pure ballistic trajectory for the significant/majority of the flight time..

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 25 Nov 2010 10:15

On Indian Express Ticker : Agni-I ballistic missile test-fired successfully off Orissa coast

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 25 Nov 2010 10:47

^^ Confirmed with a PTI report:

Agni 1 Missile Test Fired, Part of Army User Trials

Willy · Post by **Willy** » 25 Nov 2010 10:57

SriSri wrote:^^ Confirmed with a PTI report:

Agni 1 Missile Test Fired, Part of Army User Trials

Maybe a cover for another secret firing of the K-series.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 25 Nov 2010 13:27

DRDO plans five missile tests
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z16HRFVH7W

BALASORE (ODISHA): In a step forward to attain the minimum credible nuclear deterrence, India's defence scientists are going to show more fire power at the country's best test facilities at Chandipur and Wheeler Island off the Odisha coast in the coming days.

According to the sources at the integrated test range (ITR), the DRDO has planned to test-fire at least five sophisticated long range missiles within next two months. The launching complexes at both the places have been readied for the first ever synchronized test in the recent times.

While on Thursday, an advanced version of the Agni-I missile has been scheduled to be fired, in December two missiles – BrahMos and Agni-II - will fly in the sky. In January scientists will fire the newly developed Agni-II + missile and an interceptor missile, which last time didn't take off due to a technical snag in the target missile.

"This is for the first time that altogether five missiles have been lined up to be test-fired within next two months. The lab authorization committee of the ministry of defence (MoD) has given necessary green signal for the proposed test-firings. Range integration has been completed. We all are hopeful of test launching the missiles successfully," said a defence scientist.

Originally designed to strike the target at a distance of 700 km, the Agni-I missile this time will be tested by the armed forces with better re-entry technology and an extended range. Compared to its longer-range cousins, its height is just 15 metres and it is powered by both solid and liquid propellants, which impart it a speed of 2.5 km per second. It can blast off from both road and rail mobile launchers.

Next month there will be tests of BrahMos and Agni-II. On September 5 last India created history by flight testing Brahmos cruise missile, for the first time in the world, at a supersonic speed in a steep-dive mode. The 8.4-meter long missile can hit a target at a distance up to 290 km. The missile can travel at thrice the speed of sound and carry a conventional warhead weighing 200 kg to 300 kg.

"BrahMos has become the only supersonic cruise missile possessing this advanced capability in the world. After the scheduled test this version will be ready for induction," said the scientist.

Similarly, the two-stage solid-propelled Agni-II is one of the key weapon systems of the country's nuclear deterrence doctrine and had been inducted into the armed forces. Having about 1.3-meter diameter , it is 21 metres tall and capable of carrying a payload of one tonne. It has strike range of nearly 2000 km. The missile, which had failed to deliver desired results consecutively twice last year, was successfully tested in May this year.

"Meanwhile, we have developed Agni-II+ missile which is completely a new missile having a strike range between 2750 km and 3000 km. It has several advanced technologies in comparison to its previous missile. This missile, a part of the Agni series, will bridge the gap between its long-range missiles Agni-II (2000 km) and Agni-III (3500 km)," informed the scientist.

In the final step, the DRDO will test the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile to shoot down an incoming "enemy missile" as part of its efforts to build a credible ballistic missile defence shield. Of the four interceptor missile tests so far, the first three were successful. The last one in March this year was a failure.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 25 Nov 2010 13:33

India test-fires nuclear-capable Agni-I missile
Hemant Kumar Rout
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 986753.cms

India on Thursday test-fired an upgraded version of the nuclear-capable surface-to-surface ballistic missile Agni-I from a defence base off the east coast.

The missile with better re-entry technology and manoeuvrability was fired by the armed forces from a mobile launcher at the launching complex - IV of the Integrated Test Range in Wheeler's Island at about 10.10am.

"The result of the test-firing was not immediately known. However, the flight was made for user's trail and it has met all the mission objectives. The test was to reconfirm the technical parameters set for the user associated launch," a defence official said.

After a vertical lift-off from the launch pad at the ITR, the missile rose into the sky leaving behind a ribbon of smokes. Ground radars, telemetry stations and naval ships, positioned close to the intended impact point, monitored the course of the missile.

Agni-I has a strike range of 700-900 kms. Compared to its longer-range cousins, its height is just 15 metres and diameter is one meter. It is powered by both solid and liquid propellants, which imparts it a speed of 2.5 km per second.

According to defence sources, it can blast off from both road and rail mobile launchers. Weighing less but having the same thrust, the missile has added acceleration.

Agni-1 was first test-fired on January 25, 2002. Its second and third tests were conducted on January 9, 2003 and July 4, 2004 respectively from the same launching site. Thursday's test was its eighth test.

Prior to the test, eight boats were engaged to patrol around the Wheeler Island and fishermen were warned not to venture into the sea. Heavy security arrangements were also made along the sea coast.

The Director of Advanced System Laboratory (ASL) and project director of Agni missiles, Avinash Chander, and ITR director SP Dash were present along with the officials of Indian army and other defence scientists during the test.

Hemant Kumar Rout has been providing reliable news about missile tests.. looks like he has moved out of indian Express and joined ToI.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 25 Nov 2010 13:41

India test-fires nuclear-capable ballistic missile-Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00692.html

Defense Ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar says the upgraded Agni-1 was fired from a testing range on an island off the eastern state of Orissa.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 25 Nov 2010 18:08

dinesha wrote:
As BGVR also does that..
From your generalization it should be concluded then that ballistic RV, MRV and BGRV are more or less same.. not much difference then?
I thought for a RV to be characterized as a BGRV amongst other thing the projectile should be capable of deviating from the pure ballistic trajectory for the significant/majority of the flight time..

If this could be of any comfort, I'm not the first person to club a BGRV as you described and other vehicles that can glide after boost under the term "Boost-Glide" - done for various reasons.

As you characterized the BGRV, in your perspective, is there any other vehicle in Indian arsenal that can be called as BGRV?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Nov 2010 07:21

Why is Agni-1 doing a Tomahawk?

It seems the initial sharp turn then seems going straight up.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Nov 2010 08:00

are we planning to use composite casings for all strategic missiles to reduce weight - like the trident-d5?

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Nov 2010 08:35

dinesha wrote:India test-fires nuclear-capable ballistic missile-Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00692.html
Defense Ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar says the upgraded Agni-1 was fired from a testing range on an island off the eastern state of Orissa.

The Ministry of Defense press relase put out under Sitanshu Kar's name makes no mention of this being an "upgraded" Agni-1:

Thursday, November 25, 2010
Ministry of Defence

AGNI – I Missile test Fired Successfully

14:58 IST

The medium Range missile AGNI-1(A1) was successfully test fired from Launch Complex – IV (LC-IV), Wheelers Island off the coast of Bay of Bengal today. The launch took place at 10:20 hrs and the missile followed the trajectory in a copy book style and reached the designated target in Bay of Bengal. Radars, telemetry and electro-optical systems along the coast tracked and monitored all the health parameters. Ships located near the target area witnessed the terminal event. The launch of the A1 missile was carried out by the Strategic Force Command (SFC) as part of the user exercise. The launch operations were overseen by Shri J Chattopadhyay, the Project Director and DRDO Scientists. The Launch was witnessed by Scientific Adviser to Raksha Mantri Dr VK Saraswat, Programme Director Shri Avinash Chander, Director ITR, Shri SP Dash and other top DRDO Scientists. SA to RM Dr Saraswat congratulated all the DRDO Scientists and Armed Forces for the successful flight of A1.

Sitanshu Kar/SR

PIB

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 26 Nov 2010 08:52

uddu wrote:Why is Agni-1 doing a Tomahawk?
It seems the initial sharp turn then seems going straight up.

Interesting indeed! Flattened trajectory? That almost reminded me of a brahmos take off.

CM

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Nov 2010 09:41

well it had to go off in one direction rather than just climb vertically and so it did. here the M51 does the same
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beVx31O ... re=related
so does the trident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tFGzDp ... re=related

the 'sharp bend' is immediately after it clears the water and ignites the 1st stage...unlike say a SM2 missile that rises straight up for a couple of ships mast height before bending away...light and high energy....

maybe this is done to mask the location of SSBN to extent possible...make it move laterally away from launch platform asap.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Nov 2010 11:42

The bend could also be due to the fact that upon leaving the water the engine does not ignite immediately. The missile will take a fraction of a second falling back. Loosing orientation in the process. When the engine ignition took place the orientation was regained so the impression of a flattned tragectory.

BTW, I am baffaled by the multitude of varients of Agni being created by the DRDO. I have lost count and yet more varients are planned.

It would be for best if they just got on with a full sized ICBM and closed the matter. The capability to do so is will within the grasp of the DRDO. Let the world deal with the consequences of that. xxxx

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 26 Nov 2010 12:23

Wheeler Island rail line and test platform on Google Maps

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Nov 2010 11:12

T.S. Subramanian reporting Agni II+ launch shortly:

Agni-II + launch before December 10

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 Nov 2010 13:39

Not just jets, missiles too cost a bomb
Times od India

Fighters, submarines or tanks may grab all the eyeballs but other military hardware also costs a packet. Over the next five years, the armed forces will induct three advanced surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems for well over Rs 30,000 crore. The SAM systems -- to detect and destroy hostile aircraft, drones and helicopters at ranges betweem 25 and 70 km -- are the indigenous Akash system and the two being developed with the help of Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) -- the long-range SAM (LR-SAM) and medium-range SAM (MR-SAM).

Latest status reports peg the R&D costs and orders placed for the 25-km Akash system, which has a multiple target handling capability with digitally-coded command guidance system to protect vital installations, at a staggering Rs 19,182 crore. While the joint DRDO-IAI project cost for LR-SAM to arm naval warships is Rs 2,606 crore, the MR-SAM for IAF is worth Rs 10,076 crore. Akash systems are already on course to be inducted, with the IAF order being worth Rs 6,200 crore and the Army's Rs 12,402 crore. The first IAF Akash squadron, with two `flights' of four launchers each, is expected to be operational at Gwalior airbase by next year. Six of the squadrons will subsequently be based in the north-east to counter the Chinese threat.

The 70-km-range LR-SAM project -- with multi-function surveillance and threat radars, weapon control systems and missiles -- in turn, is slated for completion by May 2012. In the first phase, it will arm the three Kolkata-class destroyers being built at Mazagon Docks for Rs 11,662 crore. Under the MR-SAM project, which will also have a strike range of 70 km, the delivery of the first firing unit to the IAF is scheduled for March 2013, with the 18th one coming in October 2016. All three projects are important because the armed forces are largely equipped with near-obsolete air defence units, like the Russian-origin Pechora, OSA-AK and Igla missile systems, even though the radar coverage of Indian airspace suffers from many gaping holes.

Interestingly, though IAI has been dogged by some controversy -- ranging from kickback allegations to exorbitant business charges -- the government has refused to blacklist the firm on the ground that it will prove "counter-productive" due to the "crucial" projects that are underway.

India is also importing several Spyder low-level quick-reaction missile systems from Israel to bolster its air defence capabilities. IAF had pushed for them due to persistent delays in the indigenous Akash and Trishul SAM systems. While Trishul has failed to materialise, armed forces now seem confident about Akash. The sleek 5.6-metre-long Akash uses an integrated two-stage Ramjet rocket propulsion technology, and is powered by an air-breathing engine to carry a payload of 60 kg. As its computerised operation ensures a low-reaction time, Akash is designed to neutralise multiple aerial targets attacking from several directions simultaneously in all-weather conditions. With an 88% "kill probability", it can even take on sub-sonic cruise missiles, says DRDO.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 27 Nov 2010 20:54

PratikDas wrote:Wheeler Island rail line and test platform on Google Maps

How do they transport the missiles to the launch site?

Nalla Baalu · Post by **Nalla Baalu** » 28 Nov 2010 00:02

<OMG(Out of Musharraff Guess)>
Offload cargo from nearest mainland railway/roadway (Paradip or Dhamra?) and use a barge to what appears like jetty on the west side of the wheeler island.
</OMG>

Aditya G wrote:
PratikDas wrote:Wheeler Island rail line and test platform on Google Maps
How do they transport the missiles to the launch site?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Nov 2010 01:24

The Secret 'K' Missile Family
India Today » The Big Story

Sandeep Unnithan

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Nov 2010 01:26

India Self-Reliant In Crucial Valve Technology

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Nov 2010 10:46

So Agni_I has been upgraded in range and in payload and is with the operational units.

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Nov 2010 12:19

Aditya G wrote:
srai wrote:A list of current/planned PGMs in IAF's inventory:
Edited:

Further edits with quantities (IAF only):

LGB

315 x Paveway II LGB (1,000lb GP bomb) -> Mirage-2000, Jaguar
100+ x Griffin 3 LGB (1,000lb GP bomb) -> Jaguar, MiG-27UPG (?), Su-30MKI (?)
xx Sudarshan LGB (450kg HSLD bomb or 1,000lb GP) -> Jaguar (first tested with)
500 x KAB-500Kr/L (500kg bomb) -> MiG-21 Bison, Su-30MKI [total includes KAB-1500 as well]
xx KAB-1500Kr/L (1,500kg bomb) -> Su-30MKI
~100-300(?) x Matra BGL (1,000kg bomb) -> Mirage-2000

ASM

250 x Kh-23 (287kg) -> MiG-27ML (retired?)
600 x Kh-25MP/MLT (315kg) -> MiG-27ML (retired?)
200 x Kh-31A1/P (600kg) -> Su-30MKI
100 x Kh-59ME (930kg) -> Su-30MKI
~50 x AS-30L (520kg) -> Mirage-2000
160 x Sea Eagle (580kg) -> Jaguar IM (to be replaced by Harpoon) [total includes IN stock]
200(?) x Brahmos (2,500kg) -> Su-30MKI [total planned units 1,000 SSM/ASM variants for all services]
30 x Crystal Maze (3,000lb) -> Mirage-2000
xx "K" series Air-Launched Article (ALA) (2,000kg) -> Su-30MKI

Note: Quantities from SIPRI.

This display from the No.20 squadron celebration lists the Indian MKI armament.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Nov 2010 20:46

X Posted.

The Indian Navy has put out a RFI for a Ship-board Point Defence Missile System (PDMS).

Excerpt from the RFI:

INDIAN NAVY IS CONSIDERING INDUCTION OF A SAM SYSTEM, AS PDMS, FOR SHIPS UPTO 7000 TONS. THE BROAD QUALITATIVE REQUIREMENTS ARE AS FOLLOWS:-

(A) VERTICAL LAUNCH GUIDED SAM.
(B) RANGE OF MISSILE ABOVE 10 KM.
(C) CAPABLE OF ENGAGING SEA SKIMMING TARGETS.
(D) CAPABILITY TO ENGAGE MULTIPLE TARGETS.
(E) CAPABILITY TO BE INTERFACED WITH 2D/ 3D OR PHASED ARRAY RADARS.
(F) SHELF LIFE OF MISSILE > 8 YRS.
(G) TARGET DESIGNATION FROM RADAR/ CMS.
(H) CAPABLE OF ENGAGING SUB SONIC AND SUPERSONIC TARGETS.
INDICATE ENGAGEMENT ENVELOPE.

Clicky

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Nov 2010 21:12

not happy with barak ?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Nov 2010 21:30

Extended Range Sudarshan LGB Kit On

The development of the kit has matured to the level of guiding the bomb within 10 m CEP from its otherwise 400 m to 1000 m fall-off the target. The extension of kit’s capability to further increase its range using global positioning system (GPS) INS is on.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 28 Nov 2010 22:44

Juggi G wrote: Extended Range Sudarshan LGB Kit On
The development of the kit has matured to the level of guiding the bomb within 10 m CEP from its otherwise 400 m to 1000 m fall-off the target. The extension of kit’s capability to further increase its range using global positioning system (GPS) INS is on.

aah haa... so sudarshan does have folding fins like paveway LGB which open up on launch (just as I suggested earlier).

John · Post by **John** » 28 Nov 2010 23:35

Rahul M wrote:not happy with barak ?

Looks like they put out RFI so that they procure more Barak. Apart from MICA and SA-N-9 nothing else in market can match those specs.

vic · Post by **vic** » 29 Nov 2010 00:09

India had ordered atleast 1000 Israeli LGB immediately after Kargil. So my guess is by now the LGB inventory should be around ~2500

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Nov 2010 00:33

John wrote:
Rahul M wrote:not happy with barak ?
Looks like they put out RFI so that they procure more Barak. Apart from MICA and SA-N-9 nothing else in market can match those specs.

why would they need to go the whole nine yards of RFI RFP and tendering for a repeat order ?

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Nov 2010 00:41

Or, it's one of those MoD shenanigans to ostensibly prevent corruption (read Barak scam).

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 29 Nov 2010 00:48

I suspect Sanku's hand in this

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Nov 2010 02:34

G. Juggi, is the blog picture really of the Sudarshan? The DRDO pix showed the mid body fins being the control fins and rear ones for stability.
And the details of 400m ~ 1000m look bogus.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Nov 2010 03:13

That picture is from a PDF posted on some other discussion, from DRDO

The 400m -1000m miss distance, is from an aircraft without computer assisted bombing modes. With computer assisted bombing, and the addition of a laser pod, even a dumb bomb can be made fairly accurate (20-30 mtrs CEP) but the LGB will be more consistently accurate and you can launch a LGB without getting into a dive. Even with computer modes, huge miss distances can be observed if bomb is launched in profiles, ballistics problems it is not cleared for, so I guess that is what they are probably pointing to, that a LGB does not suffer this limitation.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 29 Nov 2010 05:22

Rahul M wrote:not happy with barak ?

INDIAN NAVY IS CONSIDERING INDUCTION OF A SAM SYSTEM, AS PDMS, FOR SHIPS UPTO 7000 TONS. THE BROAD QUALITATIVE REQUIREMENTS ARE AS FOLLOWS:-

(B) RANGE OF MISSILE ABOVE 10 KM.
(E) CAPABILITY TO BE INTERFACED WITH 2D/ 3D OR PHASED ARRAY RADARS.
(G) TARGET DESIGNATION FROM RADAR/ CMS.
(H) CAPABLE OF ENGAGING SUB SONIC AND SUPERSONIC TARGETS.
INDICATE ENGAGEMENT ENVELOPE.

Clicky

Going by the available Maitri specs, its range is supposed to be at least 15 km with active seeker. Barak-1 max range is ~10km and guidance is CLOS.

Aster-15 and even CAAM( as the tender invites system under development too)could fit in.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Nov 2010 07:38

KaranM, Precisely. and which planes do not have the computer? Most of the strike a/c in IAF have such aids. In toss maneuver there were reports of 10 m accuracy in the 80s-90s. So it reads much better with your clarification.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2010 08:32

ramana the pic was captured while the mid body fins were still folding out and not fully extended yet - this point was discussed before on br.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 29 Nov 2010 09:14

ramana wrote:G. Juggi, is the blog picture really of the Sudarshan ? The DRDO pix showed the mid body fins being the control fins and rear ones for stability.
And the details of 400m ~ 1000m look bogus.

ramana sir as per usual i don't have the faintest idea if the blog picture is really of the Sudarshan LGB for sure

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 29 Nov 2010 09:25

India Self-Reliant In Crucial Valve Technology

This is a very critical part for the LCA. All the actuator valves for control surfaces were being imported and after the 1998 Nuclear blast, this was stopped by US. Considerable delay occurred due to this critical component. Understand they could locate one company in Yugoslavia sellling this worldwide, but at exhorbitant price.

Good that they have finally set up in-house plant for this, which can now cater for all of India's needs and probably export.