India-US Strategic News and Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2010 21:56

Hari Seldon can you sketch up how it could have happened (Lehman fall) in the GDF maybe? Reason is some folks thought it might be so but couldnt put their finger on it.

shaunb · Post by **shaunb** » 27 Sep 2010 22:03

Acharya wrote:Lot of saffron color being used in US ads and places recently

That is because it is autumn/fall and saffron/orange seems to be in vogue. I don't think there is too much to read into it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2010 22:20

X-posted.. Expect to see more of it as the economy falters...

chetak wrote:we are all going to hell onlee!!

http://holykaw.alltop.com/do-yoga-go-to-hell

Do yoga, go to hell?
Posted Sep 24th, 2010

Sure, those yoga classes at the Y might have cleared up that sciatica pain, but Christians beware, it’s nothing compared to the pain of eternal hellfire, according to Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr. of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary:

“Yoga begins and ends with an understanding of the body that is, to say the very least, at odds with the Christian understanding,” he writes. “Christians are not called to empty the mind or to see the human body as a means of connecting to and coming to know the divine. Believers are called to meditate upon the Word of God -- an external Word that comes to us by divine revelation -- not to meditate by means of incomprehensible syllables.”

Catholics have been warning about Eastern-style meditation since the ‘80s, but that should come as no surprise from a religion that practically requires a papal dispensation to avoid kneeling during Mass and infamously brought the world the Spanish Inquisition.

When one does try to reach out to the divine doing yoga, that call is apparently being misdirected to the wrong number. Could it be…..Satan?!

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 27 Sep 2010 22:49

^And people ask why does America wants to constrict India.
Yoga is such a big threat?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2010 22:52

There were books written in the 1920s decrying Yoga and the new wave ashrams. Then again in the 50s-60s. Its a perdiodic 40 year cycle as US youth discover yoga and are forced to drop it by the grand poobahs.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 27 Sep 2010 23:37

US youth discover yoga and are forced to drop it by the grand poobahs.

Mor like yoga threatens their grand poobah-but then there is not much that doesn't.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 27 Sep 2010 23:46

sanjaykumar wrote:
Mor like yoga threatens their grand poobah-but then there is not much that doesn't.

We Indic's have plenty of other things apart from Yoga (but similar) to throw at them.These thought's of ours is what scares them(IMO).
Hence people looking towards a US-India bonhomie are going to be terribly disappointed(IMO).
I feel this is the grand theory which explains many geopolitical events affecting India.
Sadly not many Indics are awake or even aware of this.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 28 Sep 2010 02:24

Deleted

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 28 Sep 2010 09:33

The first of the four-engine, six-blade, turbo-prop tactical transport planes is expected to arrive in India in February. It is designed to provide the air force with the ability to conduct precision low-level flying operations, airdrops and landings in blackout conditions. It is capable of landing on short rough or dirt unprepared landing strips.

Much of the on-board electronic equipment is Indian-designed and Indian-manufactured but contracts also have been signed with Western avionics firms, including FLIR Systems.

http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?ac ... catid=1241

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Sep 2010 11:52

CRams,yes.Jumping onto Uncle Sam's post 9/11 Dubya Bush bandwagon and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan definitely brought the terror threat into the west's heartland.The problem that they are now grappling with has been the conversion of educated Muslims citizens of their countries to the Islamist cause,which has undermined their foundations.Dealing with intelligent university educated smarties who know the layout of their land well is a huge problem.In the case of the Uk,they've ben able to track down many because of their visits to Pak and massive surveillance.

The danger that India faces is being identified as a "poodle" of the US just as the UK was,and get unwanted attention from a wider variety of anti-Indian Islamist terrorists.If the likes of AlQ and their international operatives see India in the future,participating with the US in military operations as the US intends us to do,then Indian interests all over the globe will be at risk.Corporate India should sternly warn the GOI that to "embrace" the US in a military relationship and express our unbridled "love" for it,as Dr.Singh shamelessly did to Bush,will only endanger corporate India,Indians worldwide and the Indian economy in the future.Any relationship should be as "equals",not as a lackey.If closest ally Britain found the US utterly selfish as Hurd has demonstrated in his book, and Cameron well understands now,then India must "sup with the US using a very long spoon" .

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 28 Sep 2010 14:30

shaunb wrote:
Acharya wrote:Lot of saffron color being used in US ads and places recently
That is because it is autumn/fall and saffron/orange seems to be in vogue. I don't think there is too much to read into it.

I want to see Obama in a saffron suit...Jai Bajrang Bali

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Sep 2010 14:46

Philip wrote:The danger that India faces is being identified as a "poodle" of the US just as the UK was,and get unwanted attention from a wider variety of anti-Indian Islamist terrorists.If the likes of AlQ and their international operatives see India in the future,participating with the US in military operations as the US intends us to do,then Indian interests all over the globe will be at risk.Corporate India should sternly warn the GOI that to "embrace" the US in a military relationship and express our unbridled "love" for it,as Dr.Singh shamelessly did to Bush,will only endanger corporate India,Indians worldwide and the Indian economy in the future.Any relationship should be as "equals",not as a lackey.If closest ally Britain found the US utterly selfish as Hurd has demonstrated in his book, and Cameron well understands now,then India must "sup with the US using a very long spoon".

Those Indian strategic thinkers that interact with the Think-Tankeratti in USA and the press, make it a point to underline that India is not an ally of the USA in the traditional mold, but there can be understandings with it on a variety of issues.

What MMS did by expressing his undying love for Bush was something that should have made a billion Indians puke and strategic thinkers in India to hide their faces under their pillows. It was the stupidest thing ever.

Any talk of alliance between India and USA should be done behind closed doors, and India should go every time to the NAM meet and spew some bile onto USA for the show.

Also any real cooperation between India and USA should mean that India never carries all the water. USA and India should carry the water proportionate to their power in any strategic joint venture.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 28 Sep 2010 16:21

MSS went round Bush more in dalliance instead of alliance.

choose your pick of the meaning

dal·li·ance (dl-ns)
n.
1. Frivolous spending of time; dawdling.
2. Playful flirtation.

al·li·ance (-lns) n.
1.
a. A close association of nations or other groups, formed to advance common interests or causes: an alliance of labor unions opposing the bill.
b. A formal agreement establishing such an association, especially an international treaty of friendship.
2. A connection based on kinship, marriage, or common interest; a bond or tie:

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Sep 2010 16:40

How STRATFOR views the Indo-Pak-US conundrum.Pak indispensable,needed to "contain" India!
THis exposes the US's duplicity if it needed being exposed to those intelligent enough to see the US's track record over decades.It is simply hooked like a drug addict to lascivious,scandalous lust for its rent boy/catamite Pak.

LINK

Pakistan is an American ally which the United States needs, both to balance growing Chinese influence in and partnership with Pakistan, and to contain India. Pakistan needs the United States for the same reason. Meanwhile, the Taliban wants to run Afghanistan. The United States has no strong national interest in how Afghanistan is run so long as it does not support and espouse transnational jihadism. But it needs its withdrawal to take place in a manner that strengthens its influence rather than weakens it, and Pakistan can provide the cover for turning a retreat into a negotiated settlement.

Pakistan has every reason to play this role. It needs the United States over the long term to balance against India. It must have a stable or relatively stable Afghanistan to secure its western frontier. It needs an end to U.S. forays into Pakistan that are destabilizing the regime. And playing this role would enhance Pakistan’s status in the Islamic world, something the United States could benefit from, too. We suspect that all sides are moving toward this end.

The United States isn’t going to defeat the Taliban. The original goal of the war is irrelevant, and the current goal is rather difficult to take seriously. Even a victory, whatever that would look like, would make little difference in the fight against transnational jihad, but a defeat could harm U.S. interests. Therefore, the United States needs a withdrawal that is not a defeat. Such a strategic shift is not without profound political complexity and difficulties. But the disparity between — and increasingly, the incompatibility of — the struggle with transnational terrorism and the war effort geographically rooted in Afghanistan is only becoming more apparent — even to the American public.

Read more: Pakistan and the U.S. Exit From Afghanistan | STRATFOR

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2010 20:35

For a guy who doesn't mention India in his book the 21st century he sure worries that US has to contain India at the cost of all its credibility in the comity of nations!

Looks like the Cold War allowed a lot of British hacks to migrate to US and badly influenza it.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Sep 2010 20:59

My best prescriptions for India US relations: low key, dull, and behind the scenes. None of this "strategic partnership" crap. There are huge disparities in power, and worldviews of western and Hindu civilization. India definetly needs US high tech, investment etc. US needs a market. That US will be using TSP to balance India is a given. So India must manage this situation to the best of its ability; I don't believe US will let TSPA run roughshod, but neither will it let India come out of a India TSP box, US could do without the "argumentative Indian" as a constant pain in its ass if India is allowed anything more than "South Asia", and even there US prefers India TSP equal equal.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2010 21:08

What India needs is Japanese technology(mfg practices also) and investment to improve their standard of living. All this stratergy and weapons system purhcases are baksheesh to US to keep them from supporting the TSP. However what will happen is the excess from the baksheesh will be used to maintain the TSP.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Sep 2010 21:26

CRamS wrote:My best prescriptions for India US relations: low key, dull, and behind the scenes. None of this "strategic partnership" crap.

It is the Indians themselves who will try to bring India down most of the time. It is not the outsiders like TSP. Indians will collaborate with others.

I don't believe US will let TSPA run roughshod, but neither will it let India come out of a India TSP box, US could do without the "argumentative Indian" as a constant pain in its ass if India is allowed anything more than "South Asia", and even there US prefers India TSP equal equal.

Argumentative Indian who dont have any strategic vision for India may be the biggest enemy of Indians.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Sep 2010 21:29

That Startfor lifafa's credibility is already way down the toilet.

The next time the gook opens his mouth, laugh long and hard at his BS. So much for ch00tzpah.

Like ramanaji says, the c_ball fails to mention Yindia in his vision for the 21st century yet mentions as matter-of-fact that containing Yindia is worth unkil risking blood, treasure and cred in FAK-AP indefinitely! Wah re duniya.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Sep 2010 21:32

ramana wrote:For a guy who doesn't mention India in his book the 21st century he sure worries that US has to contain India at the cost of all its credibility in the comity of nations!

Looks like the Cold War allowed a lot of British hacks to migrate to US and badly influenza it.

Who said he does not mention. By not mentioning he is actually building the strategic plan against India.
Influence of India in opinion making in the third world and inside most of the smaller nation is considered disproportionately high. Its moral authority is considered deeply against the global geo political structure in which the P5 work. India uses moral stick along with military capability to achieve its geo political aims and this frightens them.

Also India's ability to undermine the carefully built moral psy ops of the western nations is truly devastating.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 28 Sep 2010 21:49

We need to have a healthy relationship with the US. But we need to make it abundantly clear that they are not doing us any favours in terms of our security and on TSP. Focus should be the economy, but we shouldn't go after US made weapons too much simply due to the history and also we need to keep them at an arms length and follow what is in our interests. Although, the security bit might be changing as CIA has been giving our local enforcement agencies tips on where to find ISI guys. But our borders are unsafe at this moment in time, we have internal problems that are inflamed by the west, especially the US. Narmada dam protests being funded by institutes in the US. Lets not forget these.

We now have the ability to have an independent position on world issues, we don't need to side with Russia, US or the EU. We need to show our independence. The vision of our leaders was this prior to Pokhran II. Lets live it.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Sep 2010 22:21

ramana wrote:There were books written in the 1920s decrying Yoga and the new wave ashrams. Then again in the 50s-60s. Its a perdiodic 40 year cycle as US youth discover yoga and are forced to drop it by the grand poobahs.

I have read a lot of accounts on how hippie movement was influenced by indic ideas. 'discovering oneself' was all the rage and india was THE place to go for that. Many people made overland trips, flying into UK, hitchhiking across europe, cross into asia via turkey and Iran, Pak and India. This was before the Iranian revolution.

An excellent book I recommend is 'The Journey Home' by an American born ISKCON swami - Shri Radhanath Maharaj. He made that overland trip into India. website of book - http://www.thejourneyhomebook.com/ . If you liked 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Yogananda - you will like this one too.

Conservative types were scared of their boys turning into these types.

Rajneesh was harassed a lot by authorities during his US stays..IIRC he was detained etc. IIRC, but not sure, some even alleged they poisoned him.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 28 Sep 2010 22:27

It was only superficially influenced by indic ideas. Watch Hare Krishna Hare Ram.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 28 Sep 2010 22:50

What's eating David Axelrod?

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/mag ... DdlY2I0ZDE

While not related to strategic relations, interesting article on the Obama White House "brain".

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 28 Sep 2010 23:32

David Friedman sounds more and more like Baghdad Bob, the Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf under Saddam

He is trying to pull wool over the eyes of the world by claiming victory for US in Afghanistan (and Iraq) when it is completely transparent that the US has lost the war and is now looking for a face saving exit.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 29 Sep 2010 00:25

That ExcelRod dude is being feted out by US media, disregarding the fact that he is a political operative. I gagged when I saw Jon Stewart coddle his crown jewels "to warm it" during an interview

Wonder what makes him different than Karl Rove or James Carville to a Third Worlder like me? Advising Obama to be nicer to Pakis?

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 29 Sep 2010 00:56

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 647486.cms

Go for a Kashmir solution and help bring stability to the region, in return for a ticket to UN Security Council membership and fulfilling your big power aspirations. That's the broad message President Barack Obama will be bringing to New Delhi during his November visit to India, preparation for which is in full swing in Washington DC.

The Kashmir settlement-for-seat at high table idea (euphemism for UNSC membership) is being discussed animatedly at the highest levels of the US administration, according to sources. President Obama himself has decided to revive the process of a US push in this direction, albeit discreetly.

Key administration officials are confirming that the UNSC issue will be on Obama's agenda when he visits New Delhi. The US President is expected to announce an incremental American support to India's candidature during his address to the joint session of India's parliament, depending on New Delhi's receptiveness.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Sep 2010 01:01

India does not trade territory for fake prestige nor does it believe in rewarding terrorism.

TOI reporter is waxing eloquent about a fake thing. Giving up Kashmir for US support for UNSC. That is reward the TSP which is the US Non-State Actor against India.

Isn't this old idea? Earlier in 90s was denuke and throw in Cashmere for TSP to take and will call of the nuke armed pit bull.

Somehow all US ideas lead to India giving up Cashmere.

The soft border option will turn Kashmiriyat into Wahabiyat as we saw with recent riots. And TSP can push in more terroists so they can alter the demographics.

Wile TSP is collapsing by turning to more Wahabism, it makes no sense to give them soft border which will jepoardize the lives of Kashmiris.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 29 Sep 2010 01:04

Gus wrote:
I have read a lot of accounts on how hippie movement was influenced by indic ideas. 'discovering oneself' was all the rage and india was THE place to go for that. Many people made overland trips, flying into UK, hitchhiking across europe, cross into asia via turkey and Iran, Pak and India. This was before the Iranian revolution.

iPhone 4 inspiration came from India..Well almost!
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/04/ ... f-college/

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Sep 2010 01:23

Wonder, who is the ulitmate beneficiary of overt Wahabiism of (VShit) Valley Sunni Hidden Islamist Terrorists?

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 29 Sep 2010 01:23

Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Sep 2010 01:25

Prem wrote:Wonder, who is the ulitmate beneficiary of overt Wahabiism of (VShit) Valley Sunni Hidden Islamist Terrorists?

Massa. Connect to global picture.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Sep 2010 01:45

Rupesh wrote:Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat

Is this the deapth of their thinking ? UN without India is utterly irrelevant in 21st century.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 Sep 2010 01:53

^^^

Just stating the obvious. India has to force change in Pakistan's ruling ideology before thinking beyond the immediate neighbourhood. Current consensus seems to be to wait until the economy and R&D is in better shape.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2010 01:55

ramana wrote:India does not trade territory for fake prestige nor does it believe in rewarding terrorism.
TOI reporter is waxing eloquent about a fake thing. Giving up Kashmir for US support for UNSC. That is reward the TSP which is the US Non-State Actor against India.
Isn't this old idea? Earlier in 90s was denuke and throw in Cashmere for TSP to take and will call of the nuke armed pit bull.
Somehow all US ideas lead to India giving up Cashmere.
The soft border option will turn Kashmiriyat into Wahabiyat as we saw with recent riots. And TSP can push in more terroists so they can alter the demographics.
Wile TSP is collapsing by turning to more Wahabism, it makes no sense to give them soft border which will jepoardize the lives of Kashmiris.

++1

Long ago I posted a cost-benefit analysis of JK territory Vs UNSC seat.

India can get a UNSC seat by smartly investing less than $100B over 5-10 year period.

But it JK is worth minimum 100 times that in terms of geostrategic interests.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 29 Sep 2010 02:04

"Fixing" Kashmir is not same as giving it away. Of course we should solve the problem, without giving an inch to the Pakis.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 Sep 2010 02:05

Well, WRT Kashmir, the UNSC seat is supposed to be needed to counter the UNSC seats held by the USA and UK. The UNSC seat by itself is worth much less if the Kashmir issue goes away. I mean sure, Delhi can use the veto to block action against random dictators and other bad guys, but knowing India's moral posturing, how often is that going to happen?

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Sep 2010 02:07

RamaY wrote: ++1

Long ago I posted a cost-benefit analysis of JK territory Vs UNSC seat.

India can get a UNSC seat by smartly investing less than $100B over 5-10 year period.

But it JK is worth minimum 100 times that in terms of geostrategic interests.

We could ask US support to annex POK, COK and bring peace and stability to the region. In any case the citizens of India in POK can have a better life in free and fair India. That would be more than enough to "prove" our worth for the UNSC seat.

If this is what Ombaba's team can come up with, I can imagine why the world is in its current shape right now.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 29 Sep 2010 02:11

I think India should leave UN.

We should just call it broken and leave. We should take Brazil along with us. But before we leave we should put out a call, that UN Headquarters should be shifted to Beijing.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Sep 2010 02:12

This might be outcome of discussion between Ombaba and the lady who went visiting