India-US Strategic News and Discussion

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2010 02:19

For all the UNSC seat lovers.

India held on to its side of JK even after its UN debacle (going to UN and accepting ceasefire), without a UNSC seat, 60 years of strategic isolation, and 60 years of west-sponsored Paki-state-acted terrorism.

So a UNSC seat will not change any ground realities.

On the other hand, India will gain UNSC seat by recapturing POK+NA. (power respects power)

India will get a UNSC seat even if doesn't solve the JK issue; when the time is right.

TOIlet's article is nothing but toilet-paper. Its masters are pushing for another bargain by offering the inevitable.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2010 02:22

lakshmikanth wrote:
We could ask US support to annex POK, COK and bring peace and stability to the region. In any case the citizens of India in POK can have a better life in free and fair India. That would be more than enough to "prove" our worth for the UNSC seat.

If this is what Ombaba's team can come up with, I can imagine why the world is in its current shape right now.

I wouldn't put much hopes on Ombaba in supporting Indian Interests. Hell, I don't have much confidence (I still have a faint hope that MMS could truly be a true sishya of Sri PVNR) in UPA II administration as far as JK issue is concerned.

I do not believe in people "giving" anything to India. When India realizes that it "wants" something, I am confident of its capability to take what it wants, the royal way

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Sep 2010 02:27

Nandu wrote:"Fixing" Kashmir is not same as giving it away. Of course we should solve the problem, without giving an inch to the Pakis.

Not so fast my friend. In US speak, "fixing" Kashmir means appeasing TSP which means India giving it away. If they had your interpretation of "fixing", you mean India is not already trying to do just that? And US does not know that? US knows about the elections conducted there. US knows about India's efforts to kneel before Fukroo & Geelani & Veggie terrorist, etc. This is indeed "fixing", but despite that when US insists on "fixing", what does it mean?

To me it is so bloody wrethced Indian elites quest to be seen at the high table, to be be showered with some bogus status etc etc, that it has become almost comical. I wish Obama's visit weren't on the cards. All he is going to come and do is say some sweet somethings to a gushing MMS, and in private he is going to tell MMS to "fix" Kashmir. Thats the purpose of his visit.

munna · Post by **munna** » 29 Sep 2010 02:39

Prem wrote:
Rupesh wrote:Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat
Is this the deapth of their thinking ? UN without India is utterly irrelevant in 21st century.

So the international petitioners want to "gift" India something. No thank you, if India wants something then India will "earn" it. What is the purpose of the UNSC seat if we are going to get our proverbial backsides handed back in an existential dispute? This is nothing but chicanery to get SDREs to do something that Israelis refused to do point blank ie surrender!
All semantics like "fix", "compromise", "autonomy", "meaningless borders" or "grand bargain" only mean one thing and that is dilution of Indian control over valley. This is something that needs to be guarded against and hence the need for Indian masses to keep the GOI under severest of all pressures to not even let the things enter realm of discussions forget implementation.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Sep 2010 02:40

A little poem since everyone is talking about it on this thread

Oh! that person who is white
Is visiting the land of might
In the dark as black as night
She is meeting the parent of our blight

What is she plotting and planning
We wonder
Or is she just listening to those
Who may tear our land asunder

Shall she come in to match her station
With new tricks
To poke and weaken
This great nation

Shall we wake up again
To reclaim our wealth
And ward of harm
And avoid further pain

But quiet moves will it take
And maybe a sacrifice great
To rescue this infinite civilization
From an unintended fate

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Sep 2010 02:41

Are there cross reports of fixing Cashmere from ususal suspects: Uneven, Reidel, Kala Vasiyat, Hol(e)broke etc.?

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Sep 2010 02:52

RamaY wrote:
lakshmikanth wrote:
We could ask US support to annex POK, COK and bring peace and stability to the region. In any case the citizens of India in POK can have a better life in free and fair India. That would be more than enough to "prove" our worth for the UNSC seat.

If this is what Ombaba's team can come up with, I can imagine why the world is in its current shape right now.
I wouldn't put much hopes on Ombaba in supporting Indian Interests. Hell, I don't have much confidence (I still have a faint hope that MMS could truly be a true sishya of Sri PVNR) in UPA II administration as far as JK issue is concerned.

I do not believe in people "giving" anything to India. When India realizes that it "wants" something, I am confident of its capability to take what it wants, the royal way

Ofcourse Saar I meant it as a joke only. Since they are asking us to do what is impossible from our perspective, we ask them to do something impossible from their perspective.

But with our leaders and "sales-babus" at the top, we would be in Jai Ho mode only if it weren't for the strong internal resistance within and without kan-graaze.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 29 Sep 2010 03:09

Is a UNSC seat something for the US to hand over?

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 29 Sep 2010 03:19

vera_k wrote:Well, WRT Kashmir, the UNSC seat is supposed to be needed to counter the UNSC seats held by the USA and UK. The UNSC seat by itself is worth much less if the Kashmir issue goes away. I mean sure, Delhi can use the veto to block action against random dictators and other bad guys, but knowing India's moral posturing, how often is that going to happen?

(Some) people automatically assume "veto" when they hear "permanent UNSC seat", but reading between the lines, you can see that when the US says "permanent UNSC seat for India", it means one without veto power. In other words, pretty worthless.

Carl_T, I think as far as India is concerned, only US and China stands in the way. So, in a way, yes.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 29 Sep 2010 03:34

Ramana,

Don't want to say I said so about UNSC and Kashmir a week or so ago....

(can't find my own post!)

UNSC is the big tomato for some folks even if it means nothing!

Key administration officials are confirming that the UNSC issue will be on Obama's agenda when he visits New Delhi. The US President is expected to announce an incremental American support to India's candidature during his address to the joint session of India's parliament, depending on New Delhi's receptiveness to resolving the Kashmir tangle.

Read more: Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z10rk0nJbX

I am sure India is receptive to ideas, but what she does where she goes - who knows?

Hope Obama does not get boo'ed in the Indian parliament - argumentative Indians and all.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 29 Sep 2010 03:37

Obama is right. India needs to 'fix' Kashmir and we will automatically be coronated onto the UNSC seat - the fix is easy - 'give world peace a chance, destroy pakistan' that is the only way to fix Kashmir.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 Sep 2010 03:40

Pulikeshi wrote:Hope Obama does not get boo'ed in the Indian parliament - argumentative Indians and all.

Hey, there's 547 pairs of shoes on the premises!

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 29 Sep 2010 03:45

Obama cannot be trusted. PERIOD!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Sep 2010 04:00

Obama is simply saying, "Give away Kashmir to make Pak happy, so that I can get them to give up jihadism that threatens my country, and I will reward you with a UN seat."

Tell ya what, Obama, you give up all your Middle Eastern oil interests first, and then India might consider giving up its territory. (As if!)

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Sep 2010 04:01

I'd be careful about taking the TOI perspective too literally. Rajghatta may well be right in bringing in Woodward's piece. However, given the TOI's penchant for "News you can buy", I plan to wait for an independent corroboration before reaching for the BP pills.

Obama's advisers are smart enough to let him know that uttering the K word in India stands for KISS of death. That is of course, if Hilary is not urging him: "Go for it Mr. President.!"

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 29 Sep 2010 04:03

Sanjay M wrote:Obama is simply saying, "Give away Kashmir to make Pak happy and give China a clear pathway to the IOR giving them control of their near abroad so they will cooperate more with us so that I can get them to give up jihadism that threatens my country, and I will reward you with a UN seat."

Edit.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Sep 2010 04:06

Jarita wrote:A little poem since everyone is talking about it on this thread
Shall we wake up again
To reclaim our wealth
And ward of harm
And avoid further pain
But quiet moves will it take
And maybe a sacrifice great
To rescue this infinite civilization
From an unintended fate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap-OO0xqTe4

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 29 Sep 2010 04:28

Fat chance Des will budge even an inch on J&K. The most I can see happening that goes beyond mere tokenism is partial removal/dilution of AFSPA and more autonomy noises for cashmere on the eve of the obamao visit.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Sep 2010 06:19

^^^ Whatever Desh does, we'll have to listen to the usual sell-out crew having debates on this issue for the next few months, with brainwashed idiots nodding their heads.

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 29 Sep 2010 06:25

I agree with baba even minus seat at high table. Let us fix it. Take back POK + COP. Fixed for ever!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 29 Sep 2010 07:07

Ooops ...Wrong thread. Deleted.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Sep 2010 07:11

i believe they have a law put in place by Musharaff that only a degree holder can hold office or something like that? Hence all the fake degrees.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Sep 2010 07:27

Let kalmadi shake hands with Obama, and he shall not utter any K word. BTW, the word "kalmadi" sounds like a bad word since last week.

Sorry folks.. Obama is facing bigger task of retaining the vote banks in his country. I would be surprised if he says anything to lose all those PoI votes.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 29 Sep 2010 07:31

^ Yes, it may all be TOIl3t's pipedreams that someone funded!

Just you wait Henry Higgins - We may yet see a reservation quota seats in UNSC!

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 29 Sep 2010 07:59

There is a notion among some US elites that Pakistan needs US to defend itself against India. It used to be true may be many moons ago but this is no longer true. From Pakistani point of view, US could never really help Pakistan deter India because India soundly trashed time and time again Pakistani armed forces equipped with US conventional weapons. It was China who helped Pakistan dampen India's war efforts by supplying Chinese made nuclear weapons and delivery systems to Pakistan. Pakistan has become China's bitch. Now, US has to stop fantasizing about Pakistan and start making some hard decisions regarding Pakistan. US and even China should realize that Pakistan's ultimate loyalty is to Islam inspired terrorism. Pakistan will never dismantle terror apparatus that are functioning from within Pakistan. Not without a war.

Arming of Pakistan armed forces by US destabilizes the entire Indian subcontinent. The billions of dollars US is pouring into Pakistan could be better utilized by poorer section of US society living in places like Harlem, South Central Los Angeles, etc. US has to start asking some pertinent questions. What has Pakistan done for US? Answer is nothing. Osama bin Laden is still hiding in Pakistan. Al Queda supported by Pakistan is growing stronger everyday. Taliban supported by Pakistan is killing US soldiers in Afghanistan everyday.

Pakistan is the last obstacle in what could be a tremendous opportunity for India and US to work together to further their geopolitical objectives. We (India and US) used to have two problems - NPT and Pakistan. Now, we are down to one problem - Pakistan.

I think this is a golden opportunity for Obama to go down in the history as a visionary US president who was able to remove the Pakistan obstacle and truly facilitated the Indo - US engagement. This is the last obstacle. All US has to do is stop supporting Pakistani armed forces. That is it.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 29 Sep 2010 08:23

Quote

"Obama should offer Security Council seat to Pakistan to stop international terrorism. It will be ONE MORE USA incentive to Pakistan to stop exporting terror."

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Sep 2010 08:34

Manny wrote:Quote

"Obama should offer Security Council seat to Pakistan to stop international terrorism. It will be ONE MORE USA incentive to Pakistan to stop exporting terror."

I like this.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Sep 2010 08:39

Looks like Amb. Blackwill's recipe for a response to the next terror attack from TSP with targeting of military assets by India has not made it here. Whose message is he carrying then, if not from GOTUS ?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Sep 2010 08:40

Karan Dixit wrote:There is a notion among some US elites that Pakistan needs US to defend itself against India. It used to be true may be many moons ago but this is no longer true.

It is still true among most knowledgeable americans. They consider Pakistan at the merrcy of big India and needs protection. One guy even discussed how Pakistan will move troops away from Indian border and hoped that India will not take advantage. He was talking as if he was Paki almost.

Pakistan has become China's bitch. Now, US has to stop fantasizing about Pakistan and start making some hard decisions regarding Pakistan. US and even China should realize that Pakistan's ultimate loyalty is to Islam inspired terrorism. Pakistan will never dismantle terror apparatus that are functioning from within Pakistan. Not without a war.

Pakistan is working for itself and for nobody else. It has survived all the things in the last 60 years.

What has Pakistan done for US? Answer is nothing. Osama bin Laden is still hiding in Pakistan. Al Queda supported by Pakistan is growing stronger everyday. Taliban supported by Pakistan is killing US soldiers in Afghanistan everyday.

For US pakistan has many things and will do many things in the future including changing the demographics of the sub continent. Keeping India checked is the cheapest one the US has found in more than a century.

I think this is a golden opportunity for Obama to go down in the history as a visionary US president who was able to remove the Pakistan obstacle and truly facilitated the Indo - US engagement. This is the last obstacle. All US has to do is stop supporting Pakistani armed forces. That is it.

Good psy ops/

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 29 Sep 2010 08:48

If "The One" believes or anyone else in USG,that GOI will hand kashmir to paqis for getting UN seat. I have whole lot of
stuff to sell them...

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Sep 2010 11:40

http://www.dailypioneer.com/286505/Anti ... enate.html

Anti-outsourcing bill blocked in United States senate
September 29, 2010 12:04:40 PM

Washington

Senate Republicans successfully blocked the passage of an anti-offshoring bill that would have denied tax breaks to US companies which move jobs overseas.

Republicans in a 53-45 vote prevented the bill from overcoming a filibuster. At least 60 votes were needed to overcome the Opposition's obstruction.

As per the bill, there will be a ban on government contractors from using American taxpayers' money to move jobs offshore.

What is seen as an electoral populist move, the Creating American Jobs and End Offshoring Act aims at small manufacturers and included a payroll tax exemption for firms that move jobs to US, but the bill also contains provisions to prevent businesses from deferring US taxes on the income they make from foreign subsidiaries

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 29 Sep 2010 11:42

Now we know who paid daily wages to the Stone throwers

Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 647486.cms

I think Ombaba's keeps it up, now matter what DDM and MMS speeches say he is well on the way to creating a lot of negative publicity for US in India for the pleasing his Allies, the CHinese and the Pakis

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Sep 2010 12:00

Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel quizzed by U.S. Immigration in Chicago.

This is not the first time that an Indian Minister has been subject to inappropriate behaviour at US airports. I recollect the 2002 episode regarding our then Defence Minister George Fernandes.

This has gone far enough.

India now needs to claim that a US official of ministerial rank was mistaken for another individual who was on a list of say beetle smugglers or some such thing and given the “treatment” at an airport in India:

Praful Patel questioned at Chicago airport

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Sep 2010 12:20

arun wrote:Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel quizzed by U.S. Immigration in Chicago.

This is not the first time that an Indian Minister has been subject to inapp

There is a pattern and a lobby which creates these events and media event just when there is President visiting India or some important deal is being done with India.

The main lobby which work overtime against India is Pak lobby, PRC lobby and home grown EJ lobby. They work together and have a common target.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 29 Sep 2010 12:22

hnair wrote:That ExcelRod dude is being feted out by US media, disregarding the fact that he is a political operative. I gagged when I saw Jon Stewart coddle his crown jewels "to warm it" during an interview

Link?

hnair wrote: Wonder what makes him different than Karl Rove or James Carville to a Third Worlder like me? Advising Obama to be nicer to Pakis?

What do you mean what makes him different to Rove or Carville? If you mean what difference they make on foreign policy? None. They are there for domestic politics and constructing a political image at home. As Axelrod's influence has waned, Obama has steadily lost his populist appeal.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 29 Sep 2010 12:40

Boss it is so easy to figure out,
The impeading visit of POTUS
kill civilians thru terror and make Kashmir a flash point (Bill C ) visit.

Now Jeelani SOB is instigated by TSP
This Ombaba of no use is going to lecture us how to conduct our inernal affairs which due to sheer incompetency of our babus has become international affairs.

PRC gets a whiff of outcome consolidates its physical illegal possions in LAdkah Aksai Chin Korakurum etc

DOnt blame anybody blame ourselves.
Over to redsident expert to Shiv_a request please quote year epoch circa of who said this first.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Sep 2010 12:46

^^^ i get the feeling that the paquis have stepped back from "we must have kashmir" to "we'll be happy if kashmir is independent" in their gubo sessions with amirkhan. dragonbhai is smirking in the wings holding the vasel-ed-din jar

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 29 Sep 2010 12:49

Aditya_V wrote:Now we know who paid daily wages to the Stone throwers

Obama's pitch: Fix Kashmir for UN Security Council seat
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 647486.cms

I think Ombaba's keeps it up, now matter what DDM and MMS speeches say he is well on the way to creating a lot of negative publicity for US in India for the pleasing his Allies, the CHinese and the Pakis

8 years of this guy and United States will effectivly be on their way to join U.K. as second rate power. How stupid can a president be to not see through TSP's game plan. He's been fooled into providing billions to TSP for aid + otherwise basically for killing american soldiers across the border and planning to kill more on the mainland.

To use a common cliche "If I were the President of the United States" I would beat up the insurgency in Balochistan, buy up TSP RAPE's , military gernails, kernails etc and well as their entire political class and media. Make it appear that TSP is better off without Balochistan and seperate the entrie state as a new nation. Gain sea access through republic of Balochistan to quell insurgency in Afghanistan.

OTOH , Ombaba is pandering to TSP and being led into the false belief that Kashmir is key to everything. Instead of arm twisting TSP, he is antagonizing a potential ally in India. IMVHO, this is going to blow up in his face very soon by way of either a terror strike in major US base or embassy or even mainland or in the form of Taliban coming back to Power in Afghanistan.

Ombaba has not learnt shit from 9/11 and what happens when TSP is either ignored or given too much attention.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 29 Sep 2010 12:52

^^^Nihat,

I've been lurking around brf too long to not know that unkil isn't being fooled or anything. Unkil wants to be fooled when it comes to TSP. TSP alive rather than dead serves its longer term (self-) goals better than India putting TSP in its place, militarily. O so DC (s)thinks. Apparently.

oh, and jai hohoho

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Sep 2010 13:03

From Om-Baba,the Messiah's UNSC carrot to India,"fix Kashmir for your UNSC seat",it is now very clear that it is a Paki-US axis of evil that is behind the recent events in the Valley.Why did this sudden outburst of "azaadi" stone-throwers take place,when there was no real issue at all and the Valley had been quiet for a v. long time? WE now know the answer.India must compromise over Kashmir with Pak-the price that Pak wants,in order for Pak to compromise with the US over Afghanistan,where Pak has sluttishly offered itself as America's "rent-boy"-cum-catamite to be "Overlord" of Afghanistan and carry out US interests in the region.This is why the US continues to sell/gift Pak arms with which it can "contain" India!

Any India govt. or PM of the day who does the US's bidding on kashmir,will go down as the most despicable traitor since those who sold out India during British times.