India-US Strategic News and Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Feb 2011 23:18

TOI reports

Radio Tagging of Indian Students in California: Hip and happening : US Official

Read on. Looks like some of our members feel the same while others the shame.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Feb 2011 00:12

@putnanja^^^. What is also lost in this heated debate over collars is that the actions of these TVU 'students' are going to make it that much more difficult for the next batch of legitimate Indian students. They are going to get extra scrutiny by visa officials and that is going to set off another round of chest-beating as processing takes that much longer.

Meanwhile, Juliet Wur, 'Public Relations Disaster Officer' should be asked to wear a collar over her mouth.

Anyway, this is still the India-US Strategic News and Discussion thread right? Perhaps we should get back on topic.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 02 Feb 2011 00:47

Lalmohan-saar, I thought original question was about a blonde bombshell

But regarding your example, we are talking about two different classes of perps. Step a few decades back to see where all these measures come from:

There used to be rail robber baron types and there used to be outlaw types who used to rob these rail robber baron's trains. At least those outlaws that are not yet in the robber baron's payroll. When these outlaws are caught (mainly by private or public militia, sometimes called Pinkertons or US Cavalry), they are put in chains and a great show is made of "rule of law" by hanging. Those bankers are these outlaws, who dared to rob the current bunch of robber baron types.

These students on the other hand are those shivering masses that used to be "held" in Ellis Island for de-licing, deportation et al. It does not matter which state of India they come from, if they were in Staten Island, they are back at Mumbai. Looks like things have changed only marginally for some classes of people.

Mexicans, tribute to them, raised a simple question - "You made us sign NAFTA and I lost my farm. Now where is my plate of beans?". That the brainiacs behind NAFTA are the same maniacs behind the Minuteman Project makes the picture even more stark.

On illegal immigration, all sorts of shills have howled about how they are overrunning US' medical system, social infra et al. But if you are preaching the world the virtues of liberty and free markets, you cannot be a police state at the same time, that tracks people with technology nor punish them for a flaw in their system. That ToI article has so many holes. Eg: "questionable visas"? I thought at US Immigration desk at port-of-entry have an uber system that can pull up to see if the visa is granted to the right guy or not and have some hologram checker et al? If an average supermarket in hicktown USA can give you a purchase return, based on pulling up a past transaction, WTF?

If they are so scared of these Indians disappearing suddenly, they should fix their own system wherein these people are denied a visa in India itself or a fake visa is caught at port-of-entry. What about an entity calling itself a University in public, being allowed to operate so long? Can anyone in US call themselves a university, without any auditing or regulatory processes? That lady at the consulate did not clarify these aspects of their own system failures and instead tried to tell us that Lindsay Lohan is the new Messiah.

These are Indians and I would raise my shield and form a phalanx instantly, if they are fallen. There is no one else in the world who would do that for them, but us.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Feb 2011 02:23

Well, the GoI will retaliate to this. Unfortunately it will be done to NRIs, PIOs, and tourists who will be hassled when they come to India out of genuine interests and concerns for it's people, culture, faith and business.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Feb 2011 04:48

@hnair^^^: "That ToI article has so many holes. Eg: "questionable visas"? Just for record, I checked what that meant. Apparently, it refers to expired visas and/or to F1 visas that are being used as 'substitutes' for H1B.

@Mort Walker^^^. Too true about retaliation. A small 'mistake' on the visa (valid for entry but 2 days short of the two months hiatus) resulted in one Indian couple on a Continental flight being re-boarded on the same plane back to Newark. They were coming to attend the husband's mother's cremation. They had been in India after seeing her in end November-early December 2010.

Coincidence maybe and I hope so. Talk about self goals. Anyway. Apologies to all for OT, no more on this subject from me.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 09:06

Ajatshatru wrote:GuruPrabhu, in the previous page, wrote:
Now this "inhumane" nonsense. The radio-collar is actually the *humane* option. I know cause I have worn one.
Perhaps anything less than Guantánamo Bay detainment may be a humane option in your eyes?

Boss, your lack of scale and relativism is amazing. Can the H&D takleef, shall we? Collar is more humane than incarceration - that's all I said. G-Bay is your fantastical H&D khujli response.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 02 Feb 2011 09:31

The students did not have noble intentions,it seems.But then massa land has consular offices in Hyderabad and Chennai.It is their fault.

But they have exploited a loop hole in the system.They have not violated any laws,because they were acting as per the sham university requirements.The fault primarily lies with the sham university and the USG.

IT is a clear violation of human rights.If they dissappear in the US,bad luck.After all the US f&*((# lecture us day and night on pluralism,human rights for jehadis and ejs.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 09:42

svenkat wrote:IT is a clear violation of human rights.

svenkat-ji, I am somewhat surprised at your clarity in assigning violations. My own view is that: a) the facts are murky at best and b) the students could not have possibly be so clueless as to not know that they were indulging in "shortcuts" (as some have characterized the choice).

The analogies are not so direct. Installing a radio-collar on the US Ambassador, as Phillip-ji graciously suggested, may be a fine option for some. The Guantanamo Bay reference above is another fine option.

However, is BRF so hungry for extremist views? Can we not view this calmly? Is wearing a radio-collar such an irritant to the national psyche? Come on folks, a sense of proportion, please?

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 02 Feb 2011 10:08

GuruPrabhu wrote:
svenkat wrote:IT is a clear violation of human rights.
svenkat-ji, I am somewhat surprised at your clarity in assigning violations. My own view is that: a) the facts are murky at best and b) the students could not have possibly be so clueless as to not know that they were indulging in "shortcuts" (as some have characterized the choice).

No, you cannot assume guilt before they are proven to be guilty, so putting collar around these students IS a voilation of human rights. As far as "shortcuts" are concerned, that is definitely a grey area in this case.

Its just a matter of which grey areas one wishes to exploit. Technically, by the book, student visa is given based on the understanding that the student will return back to his/her country upon completion of studies. So this basically implies that all those people who have settled and working in US legally after studying there are in one way or another violating the terms of their original student visa.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 10:28

Dhiman wrote:No, you cannot assume guilt before they are proven to be guilty, so putting collar around these students IS a voilation of human rights.

Dhiman-ji, I stand before you as unworthy of legal knowledge that you may possess. However, my understanding is that the "collar" is a substitute for "bail". Now, bail does not imply guilt, only suspicion of guilt. So, please explain the "voilation". Regards.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 10:42

GuruPrabhu -- the moron US woman in Hyderabad said that the collars do not mean guilt or association with crime, merely US procedure and it was very hip since even US celebs wore them. Probably she had only dealt with Indians like you till that time and hence expected her words to mean a lot.

Unfortunately no one found the joke funny, Arnab asked her to wear it if she found it so nice.

So even the US govt is not saying that there is a violation of law by the students. Still they can do this because GOTUS fears that they may become illegal citizens.

If you start behaving barbarically because of your paranoia and fused mind, you need to see a psychologist, not be lauded for your far sightedness.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 10:50

Sanku wrote:If you start behaving barbarically because of your paranoia and fused mind, you need to see a psychologist, not be lauded for your far sightedness.

Sanku-ji, I bow to your wisdom and superior intellect. Please forgive a nobody like me.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 10:55

But, I have a tiny little question. Why don't these students just go home? Have they asked for that option and been turned down? I ask with great trepidation lest the intellectual giants come down on me with a ton of bricks. Has Arnab MahaPurush examined this possibility? After all, why would decent Indian students want to sully their soul in the land of the great Satan?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 02 Feb 2011 10:57

Dhiman wrote: Its just a matter of which grey areas one wishes to exploit. Technically, by the book, student visa is given based on the understanding that the student will return back to his/her country upon completion of studies. So this basically implies that all those people who have settled and working in US legally after studying there are in one way or another violating the terms of their original student visa.

F1 to H1 transition is always done by going out of the country. So they get out of country after F1 and enter with new contract and stamp of H1.

It is very rare for Indians not go for H1 stamp.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 02 Feb 2011 10:58

^^^ Sri sri Guruprabhu's humility is truly humiliating only.

An Indic version of the benis dhaga is being procreated as we speak. LOL.

Keep it up, saar. Injects perspective, humor, levity and laughter-at-oneself into heated dhagas, I guess.

munna · Post by **munna** » 02 Feb 2011 10:58

GuruPrabhu wrote: After all, why would decent Indian students want to sully their soul in the land of the great Satan?

What about the money they spent and invested? Who will return that? They should return the kids with the moneys paid back in full.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:01

GuruPrabhu wrote:But, I have a tiny little question. Why don't these students just go home?

Because their passports have ALSO been seized, but of course it was not enough for the most gracious and fair and lovely US of A to just seize the passports, they had to treat humans like cattle too.

Have they asked for that option and been turned down?

Yes

I ask with great trepidation lest the intellectual giants come down on me with a ton of bricks. Has Arnab MahaPurush examined this possibility?

Yes he has, and the discussion is on his web site. If only people actually took the time to inform themselves

After all, why would decent Indian students want to sully their soul in the land of the great Satan?

Because Indians are entitled to all the resources of the world as any one else is. They can and should do all they can to increase their footprint globally, while batting for Indian intrests.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 11:03

munna wrote:
GuruPrabhu wrote: After all, why would decent Indian students want to sully their soul in the land of the great Satan?
What about the money they spent and invested? Who will return that? They should return the kids with the moneys paid back in full.

Thank you, Saar. So it is about the money, eh? No "voilations" of human rights after all, are there? Just a simple "voilation" of the wallet, shall we say?

If so, I agree. Let there be no pick-pocketing in the murky world of instantaneous degrees racket. Let the moolah flow logically. Amen.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:06

If the students felt they were cheated ( never mind that they were working on east coast and not attending classes regularly in the college), they can always file a suit against the college and get back their money and additional compensation too.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:08

GuruPrabhu wrote: Thank you, Saar. So it is about the money, eh? No "voilations" of human rights after all, are there? Just a simple "voilation" of the wallet, shall we say?

Wow its like saying "Do Bigha Zameen" is a story about land politics and not human emotions.

It is about both, a state letting its citizens cheat others outside their boundary and then harassing the poor victims is about both money and human rights.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 11:08

Sanku wrote:
GuruPrabhu wrote: Have they asked for that option and been turned down?
Yes

Sir-ji, That is a great injustice. We should start a movement to have the kids expatriated ASAP. I am willing to start this petition. I hope I have your support. Thank you.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:10

putnanja wrote:If the students felt they were cheated ( never mind that they were working on east coast and not attending classes regularly in the college), they can always file a suit against the college and get back their money and additional compensation too.

Really? From a college whose assets are seized by the Govt? Will the US govt agree to pay the money to the students from the assets that they hold of the college?

And why should Indian suffer if GoTUS gave a visa for a fraud in THEIR country.

Will GotUS live up to its responsibilities as a state? Let me remind everyone very clearly, this is a failure of GOTUS too.

munna · Post by **munna** » 02 Feb 2011 11:11

GuruPrabhu wrote:Thank you, Saar. So it is about the money, eh? No "voilations" of human rights after all, are there? Just a simple "voilation" of the wallet, shall we say?

If so, I agree. Let there be no pick-pocketing in the murky world of instantaneous degrees racket. Let the moolah flow logically. Amen.

You are most welcome! You see the kids out there paid as customers to receive a skill enhancement and all the associated "fully legal" immigrational benefits with it. Just because the sponsoring agency turned out to be a scam is no reason to tag people like cattle, who came on legal basis and that too after paying through their noses. It is reprehensible by any standard but people are welcome to put lipstick on a pig and call it Aishwarya Roy!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:13

GuruPrabhu wrote: Sir-ji, That is a great injustice. We should start a movement to have the kids expatriated ASAP. I am willing to start this petition. I hope I have your support. Thank you.

Sure, please also make sure the petition has suitable damages paid to them for the harrasment they suffered at the hands of GotUS on TWO counts

1) Incredible incompetence is not checking a fraud Univ and giving VISAs for that
2) Post event harassment of fraud victims.

Let US Govt pay something like 1 Million $ each to the victims and send them back in a chartered plane with a sorry note.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:13

It appears that only around 18 students have the ankle monitor, not all 1500 students.

Duped Tri Valley students ignored warning signs

...
But knowledgeable sources acknowledge that none of the students ever complained about the university run from a single room with just "13 laptops and five desktops" for over 1500 engineering students on its rolls! There is not a single page on its website that doesn't have spelling and grammatical errors. Yet not only did the students, 90 percent of them from India, mostly from Andhra Pradesh, joined it in droves, but also got to transfers to it from other universities.
...
...
The Director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) has spoken to Indian Ambassador Meera Shankar and the embassy has also taken up the matter of ankle monitors that some 18 students have been forced to wear with the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security.
...
...
But except for a "small number" of students who are under investigation, the choice before other duped students is essentially to get admission in another recognised institution or accept voluntary deportation and apply afresh for a student visa through a real school.

Facts are convinient to ignore, right?

BTW, I wonder why we condemn bangladeshi immigrants in India who too want to increase their footprint globally while battling for bangladeshi interests.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:17

Sanku wrote:
putnanja wrote:If the students felt they were cheated ( never mind that they were working on east coast and not attending classes regularly in the college), they can always file a suit against the college and get back their money and additional compensation too.
Really? From a college whose assets are seized by the Govt? Will the US govt agree to pay the money to the students from the assets that they hold of the college?

And why should Indian suffer if GoTUS gave a visa for a fraud in THEIR country.

Will GotUS live up to its responsibilities as a state? Let me remind everyone very clearly, this is a failure of GOTUS too.

Granting of visa doesn't mean that one is free to indulge in illegal behavior. The US student visa clearly states that students cannot work more than 20 hours per week. Why were students working on east coast full time instead of attending classes?

In US, you can sue the people behind the university if the students thought they were cheated out of good education. You can sue the board members in civil court, and if they win the case, the assets of the board members can be seized.

Apparently, a ramshackle building with 50 computers for 1500 students didn't raise any red flag among these "students" who paid to "get a good education" and then after entering US preferred to work full time instead of studying?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 02 Feb 2011 11:19

Sanku wrote:Sure, please also make sure the petition has suitable damages paid to them for the harrasment they suffered at the hands of GotUS on TWO counts

1) Incredible incompetence is not checking a fraud Univ and giving VISAs for that
2) Post event harassment of fraud victims.

Let US Govt pay something like 1 Million $ each to the victims and send them back in a chartered plane with a sorry note.

sir can I sign up for this fake student action as well. I like this completely riskless venture being proposed

I can almost hear the univ counseller telling the students - "boss nikal gaya toh green card haath mein, nahi toh paisa wapas, you get to play victim and a get a chartered plane home - what have you got to lose?"

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:19

putnanja wrote: BTW, I wonder why we condemn bangladeshi immigrants in India who too want to increase their footprint globally while battling for bangladeshi interests.

Extraordinarily inappropriate comparision.

We are not talking of Bangladeshi students who come to India to study on a VISA given by GoI.

India does not put shackles on even ILLEGAL immigrants or put them in jail. Merely intern them in camps (usually better than their prior chawls) and send them back by train.

And no facts are being ignored, it is clear that the students chose a sub-optimal college to study, because they wanted a route into US.

However that does not make
1) Their actions illegal
2) A inhuman behavior against them justifiable.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:20

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote:Sure, please also make sure the petition has suitable damages paid to them for the harrasment they suffered at the hands of GotUS on TWO counts

1) Incredible incompetence is not checking a fraud Univ and giving VISAs for that
2) Post event harassment of fraud victims.

Let US Govt pay something like 1 Million $ each to the victims and send them back in a chartered plane with a sorry note.
sir can I sign up for this fake student action as well. I like this completely riskless venture being proposed I can almost hear the univ counseller telling the students - "boss nikal gaya toh green card haath mein, nahi toh paisa wapas, you get to play victim and a get a chartered plane home - what have you got to lose?"

Sure you can, as long as the US does not get its act together as a responsible state, people will be quite willing to que up.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 11:22

Sanku wrote:
GuruPrabhu wrote: Sir-ji, That is a great injustice. We should start a movement to have the kids expatriated ASAP. I am willing to start this petition. I hope I have your support. Thank you.
Sure, please also make sure the petition has suitable damages paid to them for the harrasment they suffered at the hands of GotUS on TWO counts

1) Incredible incompetence is not checking a fraud Univ and giving VISAs for that
2) Post event harassment of fraud victims.

Let US Govt pay something like 1 Million $ each to the victims and send them back in a chartered plane with a sorry note.

Brilliant suggestions, Saar. But I feel $1M is not adequate. Shall we say $100M each? That is appropriate, na? Thank you for your support, Saar.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:22

Sanku wrote: Extraordinarily inappropriate comparision.

We are not talking of Bangladeshi students who come to India to study on a VISA given by GoI.

India does not put shackles on even ILLEGAL immigrants or put them in jail. Merely intern them in camps (usually better than their prior chawls) and send them back by train.

And no facts are being ignored, it is clear that the students chose a sub-optimal college to study, because they wanted a route into US.

However that does not make
1) Their actions illegal
2) A inhuman behavior against them justifiable.

As I said before, giving a visa doesn't allow anyone to indulge in illegal activities. They were working full time instead of just 20 hours per week, which is a clear violation of visa rules.

So, as per you, it would have been better for the students to be interned in immigration camps, like India does, and then deported them?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 02 Feb 2011 11:25

Sanku wrote:Sure you can, as long as the US does not get its act together as a responsible state, people will be quite willing to que up.

Maybe this is what the US is doing to get it's act together (to end visa fraud I mean, don't know about being a responsible state). Fear is the key - check uni credentials correctly and do not violate visa conditions.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:26

putnanja wrote: Granting of visa doesn't mean that one is free to indulge in illegal behavior. The US student visa clearly states that students cannot work more than 20 hours per week. Why were students working on east coast full time instead of attending classes?

And did the Univ let them to do so? A Univ registered in US?

Sure they broke the law, because the Univ they came through did not do its job, why is it the students fault?

If a person makes a donation to a charity which sens money to JuD when they ask for money in US under humanitarian grounds and a different name. Is it the responsibility of the Govt to fix the charity or the donor?

In US, you can sue the people behind the university if the students thought they were cheated out of good education. You can sue the board members in civil court, and if they win the case, the assets of the board members can be seized.

You a clearly not listening, you assume that the Univ is hanging around to pay the students. Clearly this is a illegitimate fly by night Univ which will fly away, who is going to pay the students.

Apparently, a ramshackle building with 50 computers for 1500 students didn't raise any red flag among these "students" who paid to "get a good education" and then after entering US preferred to work full time instead of studying?

Well there are no laws against idiocy as far as I know, because that would actually put shackles on a lot of people on the forum itself. However the states job and responsibility does not depend on the intelligence level of the people.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 11:26

putnanja wrote:It appears that only around 18 students have the ankle monitor, not all 1500 students.

Duped Tri Valley students ignored warning signs

...
But knowledgeable sources acknowledge that none of the students ever complained about the university run from a single room with just "13 laptops and five desktops" for over 1500 engineering students on its rolls! There is not a single page on its website that doesn't have spelling and grammatical errors. Yet not only did the students, 90 percent of them from India, mostly from Andhra Pradesh, joined it in droves, but also got to transfers to it from other universities.
...
...
The Director of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) has spoken to Indian Ambassador Meera Shankar and the embassy has also taken up the matter of ankle monitors that some 18 students have been forced to wear with the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security.
...
...
But except for a "small number" of students who are under investigation, the choice before other duped students is essentially to get admission in another recognised institution or accept voluntary deportation and apply afresh for a student visa through a real school.
Facts are convinient to ignore, right?

No, no, no. These "facts" are made up poppycock. Give them a $100M compensation NOW.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:27

GuruPrabhu wrote: Brilliant suggestions, Saar. But I feel $1M is not adequate. Shall we say $100M each? That is appropriate, na? Thank you for your support, Saar.

I am being considerate to a rapidly sinking (economy) onlee. I dont want want the GotUS to also close shop like the fraud Univ.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:29

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote:Sure you can, as long as the US does not get its act together as a responsible state, people will be quite willing to que up.
Maybe this is what the US is doing to get it's act together (to end visa fraud I mean, don't know about being a responsible state). Fear is the key - check uni credentials correctly and do not violate visa conditions.

Fear is the key?

Thank you for making my point about state using Barbarism and Terror as instruments instead of civilized recourse.

I say they should all be put in G' Bay, that will teach them niggers, yes sir.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Feb 2011 11:29

GuruPrabhu wrote: No, no, no. These "facts" are made up poppycock. Give them a $100M compensation NOW.

Only people to ignore facts are those supporting this barbarity by GOTUS.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 02 Feb 2011 11:32

Sanku wrote: I say they should all be put in G' Bay, that will teach them niggers, yes sir.

Saar, I take issue with this extremist statement. You are being extremely insensitive. Your choice of words is not in keeping with the agreed upon norms of decent behavior. Please apologize to these decent human beings for calling them the N word. Thank you.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:36

Sanku wrote:
putnanja wrote: Granting of visa doesn't mean that one is free to indulge in illegal behavior. The US student visa clearly states that students cannot work more than 20 hours per week. Why were students working on east coast full time instead of attending classes?
And did the Univ let them to do so? A Univ registered in US?

Sure they broke the law, because the Univ they came through did not do its job, why is it the students fault?

If a person makes a donation to a charity which sens money to JuD when they ask for money in US under humanitarian grounds and a different name. Is it the responsibility of the Govt to fix the charity or the donor?

Totally wrong example. In your case of charity, it is the charity fooling you. In case of this university, one look at the university after landing in US, a serious student would have complained right away.

However, your justification is interesting. Thanks for letting me know that. If I know an action is illegal and l still do it if someone lets me do it, I won't be responsible for it. So if I sell my company's secrets, knowing fully well it is not legal as per my employment terms, I can still get away using this logic as the company gave me access to their secrets.

Sanku wrote:
Ravi wrote: In US, you can sue the people behind the university if the students thought they were cheated out of good education. You can sue the board members in civil court, and if they win the case, the assets of the board members can be seized.
You a clearly not listening, you assume that the Univ is hanging around to pay the students. Clearly this is a illegitimate fly by night Univ which will fly away, who is going to pay the students.

Clearly, you didn't understand my argument. The director of the university, the chinese lady is still around, and so are the others behind the university. If the students really want to sue them, they sure can.

Sanku wrote:
Ravi wrote: Apparently, a ramshackle building with 50 computers for 1500 students didn't raise any red flag among these "students" who paid to "get a good education" and then after entering US preferred to work full time instead of studying?
Well there are no laws against idiocy as far as I know, because that would actually put shackles on a lot of people on the forum itself. However the states job and responsibility does not depend on the intelligence level of the people.

Oh! You pay thousands of dollars to a university to get a good education, and you land up and see a single room university, and you are not outraged?? Is it the student was idiot or was it because he never came there to study anyway? No serious student worth his salt would have stayed back if he was there only for education.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2011 11:53

For those wondering about the university, these are the pictures of the university, the first is external photo, and the 2nd is it's office. The university runs out of a converted condominium.