India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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CRamS
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 29 Dec 2010 22:46

vera_k wrote:What would be so valuable about this particular payload to merit sabotage now?


As I emphasize, I was only speculating to rule sabotage out.

But when it comes to US-India relations, my journalism 101 cue is simple: In order to explain any event of significance in India that has a bearing on US, I ask myself if the event is in US interests or not. And I start from there. As much as it is a joke to compare US's power with India's, but remember US will nip in the bud any hnt of a threat or competition to its interests; thats how the system is set up. So please consider this BeeB report on the launch failure:


India has successfully launched lighter satellites in recent years, but has faced problems sending up heavier payloads .



That bolded part is what triggered the sabotage angle. Is it in US interests for India to successfully luanch heavy payloads and become a competitor? What about the associatd technological experience and gains India makes? Are they in US interests?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby GuruPrabhu » 29 Dec 2010 23:40

India has won dozens of gold medals in C'wealth games but very few in the olympics.

You can view this as a statement of fact that some things are more difficult than others or you can find American sabotage in it. Let us apply the CRamS Test. Is it in America's interest that India win gold medals and become a competitor? No? Of course, then "US will nip in the bud any hint of a threat or competition to its interests; that's how the system is set up." Zimble onlee.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 30 Dec 2010 01:19

GuruPrabhu wrote:India has won dozens of gold medals in C'wealth games but very few in the olympics.

You can view this as a statement of fact that some things are more difficult than others or you can find American sabotage in it. Let us apply the CRamS Test. Is it in America's interest that India win gold medals and become a competitor? No? Of course, then "US will nip in the bud any hint of a threat or competition to its interests; that's how the system is set up." Zimble onlee.


You can caricature anything you want, but you have not applied the CRamS test correctly, and you will fail my journalism 101 class. Do you underdtand why US is touchy about so called dual use technologies? You think US will be happy about us SDREs developing ICBMs for example? Do you recall how furious Uncle was post Pokhran-II until Jassu bhai did the Gubo act before "my friend Strobe", and have you heard even a whimper of nuke aggressiveness from India after that, even as TSP nuke blackmails India after every LeT attack, and US follows with "nuke flashpoint"? SDREs mastering sophisticated technoloigies that could lead to the development of things like ICBMs is not in US interest, and you know that. Even an Indian attempt to gain a decisive edge over TSP will be countered with some equal equal countermeasure. So, I felt that there is a chance US will sabotage any India gain towards becoming militarily self sufficient and a high-tech competitor, and hence my cursory sabotage suspiscion.

Enough said, lets not beat this to dealth. If you feel the sabotage claim is so outlandish and does not merit discussion, thats fine, lets leave it at that.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby arjunm » 30 Dec 2010 01:21

Some body should send our retarded clown prince this article and should interpret if his genomics mix find it hard to understand and should explain how ruthless West is, in particular the US, when it matters to protect the interest of their country.Every rules, human rights violation, amnesty goes out of the window.When the democrats came to power under Obama's leadership they jealously started de-constructing all the Bush's earlier policies and tried to implicate these policies as the ultimate roots of all ILLS that US has been brought in to. Even ERIC HOLDER, the Attorney General,started the criminal investigation on some of Bush's questionable policies, one of which was policies of tortures related to GYTMO, which received tremendous flak from international community. The level of barbaric physical and psycho analytical tortures practiced at GYTMO, under tight media black out after 9/11,, was simply mind boggling. But ,just after two years, and a land slide debacle in the mid-term election, all those policies"left's terrorism-as-crime theories" started colliding with Mr.Oabama's responsibility to protect a great nation, is now getting re-evaluated. The reality of the ongoing war on terror is helping to shatter the Gitmo myth and end its distorted earlier interpretation and now supporting to brought back for the sake of "protecting the Nation".Which means all those inhuman skull crushing tortures of the Al-queda suspects would be reinstated ,and not a single GYTMO detainee would be transferred from now on. Now imagine our retarded clown prince was describing the severe threat scenario, greater than Lashakr -E Toyba, from those khaki wearing malnourished clowns carrying a moth eaten bamboo stick and a photo of Hanumanji in their back pocket,as greatest danger to eye popping amusement to the Ambassador, representing a country which just validated the method of tortures unprecedented in human history,literally thumping a middle finger to those international rules and regulations that they set as the standard, in the name of protecting the security interest of their country.

The Collapse of the Guantanamo Myth

When announcing in 2002 that the U.S. would detain al Qaeda fighters at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld famously described the base as "the best, least worst place." Mr. Rumsfeld's quip distilled a truth: The U.S. would capture enemy fighters and leaders, and their detention, while messy, was of great military value.
For two years, President Barack Obama has pretended that terrorism is a crime, that prisoners are unwanted, and that Gitmo is unneeded. As a presidential candidate, he declared: "It's time to show the world . . . we're not a country that runs prisons which lock people away without ever telling them why they're there or what they're charged with." Upon taking office, he ordered Gitmo closed within the year.

But the president's embrace of the left's terrorism-as-crime theories collided with his responsibility to protect a great nation. Now the reality of the ongoing war on terror is helping to shatter the Gitmo myth and end its distortion of our antiterrorism strategies.

This week the intelligence community reported to Congress that one-quarter of the detainees released from Guantanamo in the past eight years have returned to the fight. Though the U.S. and its allies have killed or recaptured some of these 150 terrorists, well over half remain at large. The Defense Department reports that Gitmo alumni have assumed top positions in al Qaeda and the Taliban, attacked allies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and led efforts to kill U.S. troops.
But the president's embrace of the left's terrorism-as-crime theories collided with his responsibility to protect a great nation. Now the reality of the ongoing war on terror is helping to shatter the Gitmo myth and end its distortion of our antiterrorism strategies.
Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld famously described Guantanamo Bay as "the best, least worst place."

Even that 25% recidivism rate is likely too low. The intelligence community reports that it usually takes about two and a half years before a released detainee shows up on its radar. Our forces probably have yet to re-engage most of the terrorists among the 66 detainees released so far by the Obama administration.

The Bush administration released many more, but those freed by this administration are likely more dangerous. Contrary to the Gitmo myth, innocent teenagers and wandering goat herders do not fill the base. Last May, an administration task force found that of the 240 detainees at Gitmo when Mr. Obama took office, almost all were leaders, fighters or organizers for al Qaeda, the Taliban or other jihadist groups. None was judged innocent.
All of this is having an impact on Congress, which this week voted overwhelmingly to de-fund any effort to shut down the Gitmo prison. It also barred the Justice Department from transferring detainees to the U.S. homeland. Despite Attorney General Eric Holder's rush to put Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on trial in downtown New York, the planners of the 9/11 attacks will stay put.

Congress is reflecting the wishes of the American people. In the Gitmo myth, President George W. Bush was a Lone Ranger acting without Congressional permission, and Gitmo was a law-free zone. But the American people never opposed capturing and detaining the enemy. And now Democratic Congress has ratified Mr. Bush's policy.

Freezing the Gitmo status quo will stop the release of al Qaeda killers, but it won't end the serious distortions in Mr. Obama's terrorism policy.
The administration relies on unmanned drones to kill al Qaeda leaders hiding in Pakistan and Afghanistan. CIA Director Leon Panetta calls it "the only game in town." Drones take no prisoners, but they also ask no questions. Firing missiles from afar cannot substitute for the capture and interrogation of al Qaeda leaders for intelligence. (The real question now is whether CIA agents will decline to interrogate prisoners, thanks to Mr. Holder's criminal investigations into Bush policies.)As long as no one is sent to Gitmo, the Obama administration will leave itself two options for dealing with terrorists: kill, or catch-and-release. Mr. Obama's drone-heavy policy means that more people will die—not only al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, but also innocent Afghan and Pakistani civilians.

The Gitmo myth also drove the Justice Department's push to prosecute al Qaeda leaders in U.S. civilian courts. Nowhere else did the Obama administration place its view of terrorism more clearly on display as a law-enforcement problem. The near-acquittal of Ahmed Ghailani, the al Qaeda operative who facilitated the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, by a New York jury last month has clearly revealed that path as a dead end—even if Mr. Holder remains in denial.

The simple alternative is to continue detentions at Gitmo. Detention is consistent with the rules of war, which allow captured combatants to be held indefinitely without requiring criminal charges to be filed. It also keeps our troops and agents in the field focused on finding and killing the enemy, not on collecting evidence and interviewing witnesses.

Using its constitutional power of the purse, the new Congress should continue to keep Gitmo in operation. It should press President Obama to resume the capture, detention and interrogation of al Qaeda leaders. It should also educate the public about the real state of affairs in Guantanamo: The military has spent millions to create a model facility.

Most importantly, Congress can use its oversight power to probe the decision-making that led to the release of the 150 or more recidivists. It can require a full accounting from the military and intelligence agencies of the harms caused by released detainees, and it can bring to light the risks that these bureaucratic mistakes will pose to American lives.
After the left's long denunciation of Bush-era policies, Mr. Obama should admit that he has made his share of mistakes—not the least of which has been propagating the Gitmo myth. If Americans die at the hands of released detainees, we will know who to blame.

Mr. Yoo is a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and an American Enterprise Institute scholar. Mr. Delahunty is an associate professor at the University of St. Thomas School of Law in Minneapolis. Both served in the Justice Department under President George W. Bush.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 40846.html

GuruPrabhu
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby GuruPrabhu » 30 Dec 2010 02:43

CRamS wrote: You can caricature anything you want


That may be possible, but you sir, provide some juicy material to work with. Please don't be offended. A good conspiracy theory should be taken seriously and its efficacy tested in a broader realm.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 31 Dec 2010 03:44

Not sure if this was posted before...... but WTH....interesting quote. :)
Dwight D Eisenhower: Address Delivered Before a Joint Session of the Parliament of India.
I come here representing a nation that wants not an acre of another people's land; that seeks no control of another people's government; that pursues no program of expansion in commerce or politics or power of any sort at another people's expense. It is a nation ready to cooperate toward achievement of mankind's deep, eternal aspirations for peace and freedom.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 01 Jan 2011 00:43

US The Peg, India High In China’s Foreign Policy Deliberationshttp://www.eurasiareview.com/analysis/us-the-peg-india-high-in-china%E2%80%99s-foreign-policy-deliberations-31122010/

After a surge in aggressive, sometimes bordering on threatening foreign policy over the last two years, the Chinese leaders have realised that their perceived unchallengeable comprehensive national strength (CNP) could also be fragile. Although the second largest economy in the world on national GDP, China still figures at 104 in per capita GDP terms. It is the largest exporter in the world, but depends almost exclusively on imported raw material to produce goods. Its galloping economic growth is dependent on energy, on import of oil and gas. Can China use military power to ensure foreign inputs? Absolutely not, though some in the Chinese hierarchy, especially the military, thought so.It is not an encirclement policy engineered by US President Barack Obama that has caused consternation among China’s neighbours in the Asia – Pacific Region (APR). It was China’s aggressive posture and gun- boat diplomacy. In fact, Barack Obama went out on a limb to court friendship with China from the beginning of his presidential term. But Beijing apparently read it as weakness, given USA’s financial problems. What they missed was how could the USA spend hundreds of billions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq? This basic point was missed by those in Beijing who were heady with the wine of self-perceived power.Briefly, accepting the United States as the fulcrum of global exchanges and balance of power, the extract identified four factors that have changed China’s security environment, and advised five fronts on which China should tighten its regional security management – (i) It admitted that the US remained the bellwether with its “ flying grease “ security structure, (ii) the US – Japan and US – South Korea (ROK) alliances as the second US security chain, (iii) the US relationship with Australia, Thailand and the Philippines as the third, and (iv) ties between US and Vietnam, Indonesia and India as the fourth.
Lately, there has been an open acceptance of India as a power to contend with, but with strategic care. The Liaowang (Outlook Weekly) in December wrote India was a power that could not be ignored by the international system given its economy, demography, culture and military; its status in the post-economic crisis era was pronounced; its relationship with major powers appeared getting better as the year came to an end. The Liaowang commentary was among other official media reports which were a mix of sobriety and sarcasm, just before Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to India. Under the circumstances, Premier Wen was at his classical Chinese best trying to warm relations with India, but not giving an inch.But he also faced an Indian government very different from his last visit. India insisted on reciprocity, making no concessions on “its core interests”, even indicating that New Delhi could change its support to China’s core interests if Beijing continued to abuse those of India’s, especially on Kashmir. Wen proposed that the “stapled visa” issue could be resolved by officials of both sides. Unfortunately, India accepted it. In negotiations, both sides have to give. But why should India give, and what, on an issue unilaterally created by China.

The CASS report assessed that India’s growing relationship with the US was an issue to address seriously, that even beyond India’s developing relations with Japan, Vietnam and other countries, it was the US ingredient through which China must pay special attention to India’s diplomacy in 2011.
China has been looking at India through the narrow focus of the growing India-US relations following the India-US peaceful nuclear deal of 2008. It senses that this single deal had over turned China’s strategy to constrict India within South Asia, as this had spurred India-US military and high technology exchanges, and cooperation in strategic affairs.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sumishi » 01 Jan 2011 17:10

With reference to the "pat-down" issues of TSA, boy, this article says it all :shock:. Now wonder people are freaking out!
[rated "A"] The TSA's state-mandated molestation

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 Jan 2011 23:20

sumishi wrote:With reference to the "pat-down" issues of TSA, boy, this article says it all :shock:. Now wonder people are freaking out!
[rated "A"] The TSA's state-mandated molestation


A question was asked how is the TSA allowed to subject minor girls to the whole body scan? Isn't that de-facto encouraging child ***** viewing by TSA operatives?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 03 Jan 2011 10:06

Ignoring India's concerns, Obama signs 9/11 health care bill

Obama took some time off from his vacation in Hawaii to sign the bill that provides for a fund of USD 4.2 billion for the free health care to 9/11 responders, a portion of which is being raised by extending an increase in some categories of H-1B visa fee that would mainly affect Indian IT companies. India has objected to such an increase.

It also imposes a two per cent levy on goods and services the US imports from certain developing countries, including India. An extension in increase in H-1B visa fee is estimated to cost Indian companies USD 200 million.

Indian Commerce Minister Anand Sharma had termed it as a retrograde step for greater trade engagement with the US.



Yet another price of TSP terror being born by the SDREs.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sumishi » 03 Jan 2011 16:23

Signs are ominous that the Internet freedom may become a thing of the past.
The FCC's Threat to Internet Freedom

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 03 Jan 2011 21:52

^^^

The H1B fees are due to domestic political compulsions. But the other excise tax is more interesting in that Chinese companies won't have to pay the 2% levy. IMO, this is a fit case to burden Indian imports from the US with a 2% duty.
Last edited by vera_k on 03 Jan 2011 21:57, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2011 21:53

Marten I don't think so. Going after outsourcing is a easy task for US politicians in a recession hit job less economy.

Paying lobbyists is bad business. Instead move the business to India and minimize the need for visas. Make the others come to India. They depend on Indian visa fees to pay for the damage caused by TSP terrorists in 9/11.

Reduced visas mean less benefits.

Anyway why are you sad? Costs are always paid by the consumer.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 03 Jan 2011 22:00

ramana wrote:Anyway why are you sad? Costs are always paid by the consumer.


Good point. At the most it will impact the bottom line for Indian companies, which will be reflected in their stock prices; that are mostly owned by institutional investors.

$200m burden is not much compared to $60B trade.

The more important issue is for India to link some of the trade items, especially in the military sector, with US military aid to terrorist nations.

IMHO, India should DRAFT a treaty that India and US should stay away from mutually declared Terrorist nations. If US wants Indian support for its sanctions against Iran, US should support Indian sanctions on a terrorist nation, say Pakistan.

I am sure our Babus can provide objective and factual data on this to prepare our leadership, but they cannot overwrite a determined but sold-out PM.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby arjunm » 03 Jan 2011 23:03

Joke on Obama's narrow populist policies, not only consumer will be paying the extra burden of fees, 11000 H1B visas have no takers.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 195290.cms

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Hitesh » 03 Jan 2011 23:57

sumishi wrote:Signs are ominous that the Internet freedom may become a thing of the past.
The FCC's Threat to Internet Freedom


A hack job done by broadband companies who wish to jack up prices of internet access.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby krisna » 04 Jan 2011 04:01

^^^^
US 9/11 treatment tax upsets India
New Delhi may take Washington to the World Trade Organisation’s dispute panel over its move to fund a free-treatment scheme for 9/11 victims through legislation that will cost Indian IT companies millions of dollars, officials said.

Washington plans to raise the money in two ways. One, by imposing a two per cent levy on goods and services it imports from certain developing countries that include India. Two, by extending a fee hike for certain categories of the H1B and L1 visas that are extensively used by Indian professionals working in America.


The act’s provisions are being closely studied in Delhi, the commerce ministry source said. “Consultations are being made with the law ministry to make our case strong,” he said. “We plan to talk to other countries affected by the legislation so we can have a convergence of views and better coordination for a better result in dealing with Washington.”


ultimately the american consumer is the king (or pauper)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2011 11:52

Mysterious death/murder of US mil. expert,who was worried about the nation's vulnerability to cyberwarfare.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... s-politics

John Wheeler, US military expert, found dead in US landfillPolice are investigating death of former US government official John Wheeler after his body was found at dump

Xcpts:
The body of a military expert who served in three Republican administrations was found dumped in a landfill over the New Year's weekend, and investigators said Monday they do not know who might have killed him.

Authorities say John Wheeler III, 66, was scheduled to be on an Amtrak train from Washington to Wilmington on 28 December. Police say it's now not clear if he ever made that trip. His body was found three days later, on New Year's Eve, as a garbage truck emptied its contents at the Cherry Island landfill. His death has been ruled a homicide.

Wheeler, who served as an Army staff officer in Vietnam, later worked in the Reagan and both Bush administrations and helped lead efforts to build the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall in Washington. He also was the second chairman and chief executive officer of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

His body was discovered on 31 December as a waste management truck emptied its contents at the Wilmington-area landfill. His death has been ruled a homicide.

Police have determined that all the stops made by the garbage truck on Friday before it arrived at the landfill involved commercial disposal bins in Newark, several miles from Wheeler's home in the historic district of New Castle.

Newark, Delaware police spokesman Lt. Mark Farrall said investigators had been to Wheelers' house, which was roped off with police tape after his death, but that it could not be considered a crime scene.

"We don't have a crime scene at this point in time," said Farrall, adding that investigators still do not have any leads in the case.

Farrall said initial police reports that Wheeler was last seen getting off an Amtrak train in Wilmington last Tuesday were incorrect.

"The information that we have is that he was scheduled to take a train from Washington DC, to Newark on the 28th. We don't know if that occurred," Farrall said, adding that investigators don't know how long Wheeler might have been missing before his body was found, or where and when he was last seen.

Asked why Wheeler had not been reported missing, Farrall said the family was not in town at the time.

"That's why there was some delay in notification," he explained.

A graduate of the US Military Academy at West Point, Wheeler went on to study at Harvard Business School and Yale Law School.

Richard Radez, a longtime friend who also graduated from West Point and Harvard Business, said he exchanged e-mails with Wheeler on Christmas. On the day after Christmas, Wheeler sent Radez an e-mail expressing concern that the nation wasn't sufficiently prepared for cyber warfare.

"This was something that had preoccupied him over the last couple of years," Radez said.

James Fallows, a national correspondent for The Atlantic magazine, wrote in an article on the magazine's website that he had known "Jack" Wheeler since the early 1980s.

Wheeler, Fallows wrote, had spent much of his life trying to address "what he called the '40 year open wound' of Vietnam-era soldiers being spurned by the society that sent them to war."

Wheeler retired from the military in 1971, and went on to serve in the administrations of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, including at the Securities and Exchange Commission. He also was a special assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force under President George W. Bush. He recently worked as a consultant for The Mitre Corporation, a nonprofit based in Bedford, Mass., and McLean, Virginia, that operates federally funded research and development centers.


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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 04 Jan 2011 12:51

From The Hindu - India chasing a U.N. chimera

From the article
....
The revelation of U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's classified whisper, describing India as a self-appointed front-runner exposed Washington's innermost thoughts on the subject. Though the embarrassing leak was subsequently sought to be played down, it opened the curtain to a larger truth which is that the U.S. and the other four have never really been interested in real reforms to the Security Council.
....


But the meat of the article is
....
In today's global equation the U.S. is the acknowledged prime mover. It has already had to sweat it out to convince the other four members to go with it on several issues, like the sanctions against Iran. If more countries are allowed to join the Council the difficulties for U.S. interests are obvious, even if those included are vetted for their closeness to Washington.
....
Not just that, the credibility of the Security Council itself took a beating over its inability to prevent the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. Having failed to convince France, Russia and China to vote for invading Iraq, the U.S. went alone. The Council was reduced to a bystander. It failed to fulfil its primary task, that of ensuring security — to Iraq.
....
“With a U.S. global presence as great as that of any empire in history, Security Council efforts to control U.S. actions are beginning to resemble the Roman Senate's efforts to control the emperor,” writes Weiss.
....


This beggars one question. If the assumption about Security council, being a toothless talking shop is true, then why is India hell-bent on associating itself with such a failed setup? It is likely that just like the League of Nations, the current UN Setup will be obsolete by 2025, when the combined economies of China and India will be bigger than the American economy.
And if India is offered the seat in 2025, with or without the veto, will our interest be served by becoming a pillar of an American international system? We might not strive to end it or bring its downfall, but we need not attempt to prevent its demise too.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 04 Jan 2011 13:39

Christopher Sidor wrote:
This beggars one question. If the assumption about Security council, being a toothless talking shop is true, then why is India hell-bent on associating itself with such a failed setup?

You need to have to show that you are capable.
Just the process of getting it is something to gain. But war may be necessary to show that India can handle it

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2011 15:31

I for one have been asking the same Q many a time.What is the great advantage in being part of a watered down UNSC? Precious little.It has bragging rights right now for the P-5 and the very limited number of permanent members gives it a kind of moral authority that would be lost in an enlarged council.The shameless lust for a UNSC seat by our MEA mandarins shows them in a very poor light.India should be seen as a nation that should be invited to join the UNSC instead of a nation demanding to be given a seat.There are two basic requirements.One our population cannot be ignored,two our econmic and military strength cannot either.Therefore,if we are denied a seat,we must simply leave the UN and refuse to be part of a conspiracy to deny us our legitimate "birthright".In any case who cares about the UNSC?Look at israel,which has (because of US support),said "boo" to umpteen UN resolutions and cares a fig about the UN Sec-Gen,who as mentioned before runs the show like the "Adam" of a cathouse!

If we put in 1/10th the effort in gaining a UNSC seat in building up the armed forces to meet the Sino-Pak challenge,we would in great measure actually do more to bend the P-5 into granting us a seat at the pecking table than instead behaving like a nation of a billion led by a govt. of eunuchs-here I specifically refer to our disgraceful abication of our independent foreign policy with respect to Iran,which is a pivotal state that straddles the Indian subcontinent and the Gulf,which pins down Pakistan and should be India's natural ally being a Shiite Islamic state,itself a victim of Sunni Paki perfidy.Regrettably,our disgusting and shameless PM,an American lackey,our "Quisling",has but one policy in mind,the wholesale selling of the nation to American interests. Good relations with the US is a desirable ambition,but not in such a servile and grovelling manner at the expense of our realtions with Iran that have spanned centuries long before the US of A came into being.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 07 Jan 2011 03:34

X-posting from Paki Role in Global Terrorism Thread:

http://www.businessinsider.com/2-packag ... and-2011-1

Parcel Bombings in Maryland!

Paki connection to emerge in 3,2,1...

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Jan 2011 22:35

Sigh, more of the same, when will they realize that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01261.html

President Barack Obama's administration is planning to send more help to Pakistan amid complaints from government officials there that the United States doesn't understand their security priorities or offer enough help, The Washington Post reports.

According to the plan, decided on in last month's White House Afghanistan war review, the U.S. will offer more military, intelligence and economic support to Pakistan, the newspaper reported online late Friday. The Obama administration also plans to intensify efforts to forge a regional peace despite frustration that Pakistani officials aren't doing enough to fight terrorist groups in the country's vast tribal areas, it said.

The decision is set to be delivered by Vice President Joe Biden in a planned visit to Pakistan next week, the Post said, citing unidentified administration officials. Biden is expected to meet with military chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani and other top government leaders.

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 09 Jan 2011 03:33

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... d878077874

Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, at least 5 killed
(AP) – 3 hours ago
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head Saturday

Giffords referred to the animosity against her by conservatives. Palin listed Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections because of the lawmakers' support for the health care law.
"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.
In the hours after the shooting, Palin issued a statement in which she expressed her "sincere condolences" to the family of Giffords and the other victims.
Capitol police responded to the shooting by advising lawmakers and their staff to "take reasonable and prudent precautions regarding their personal security."
Despite her clashes with the right, Giffords describes herself as a former Republican and current Blue Dog Democrat.
"You know, actually as a former Republican, you know, I consider myself someone who is pretty in the middle, I'm a blue dog Democrat, and one that is interested in making sure that our country maintains our prosperity and frankly, our superiority over other countries and that's where we look at these threat, obviously our defense budget, our level of education," she said in an interview with Fox News Channel this week.


The youtube site of the shooter

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10 ... HoaZaLbqB4

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 09 Jan 2011 19:06

ISNA conference draws hundreds of Muslims

Hundreds of Muslims are in Fort Lauderdale this weekend for an Islamic Society of North America conference.
BY JAWEED KALEEM
jkaleem@MiamiHerald.com

As a sophomore at Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Myers, Feras Ahmed doesn't get many opportunities to interact with other Muslims outside his family and a close circle of friends.

So when he heard that one of the largest Muslim organizations in the country was convening hundreds of Muslims from the eastern seaboard in South Florida this weekend, Ahmed joined his brother, mother, uncle and two cousins on a road trip to Fort Lauderdale.

``I'm here to try to get a sense of community, to get involved in what's going on with Muslims in America,'' the 20-year-old said.

He stood outside a booth selling Islamic books and DVDs at the Greater Fort Lauderdale/Broward County Convention Center on Saturday as a diverse crowd of Muslim scholars, students and families mingled between panel discussions on subjects from Muslims and the media to youth empowerment and relationships.

Four months after a Gainesville pastor's threats to set off a bonfire of Qurans drew international attention to Florida, the Islamic Society of North America is holding a regional conference in South Florida for the first time, aiming to strengthen community ties and promote civic engagement among Muslims.

The organization, which draws 40,000 Muslims to its annual national convention in Chicago, is making a timely bet on South Florida, which has about 70,000 Muslim residents.

``There has been a lot of misunderstanding of Islam. We have got to get out there and show who we are,'' said Imam Mohamed Magid, the organization's president and a well-known figure in Islamic circles.

Magid was joined by representatives of South Florida's two dozen mosques and Muslims from across the state.

``We need to create a sense of community between ourselves and strengthen relationships with communities outside our own,'' he said.

The conference, which began Friday, has been host to conversations about Islamic higher education, empowering women, interfaith dialogue and Islam on the Internet, among other topics.

In a community where mosques and Muslim organizations are often divided along ethnic or geographical lines, the conference was notable for drawing a broad cross-section including Sunni and Shia Muslims and groups such as the Council on American Islamic Relations and Islamic Circle of North America.

Booths sponsored by Muslim-oriented businesses offered head scarves, pilgrimage packages to Mecca, Islamic banking services and, in a South Florida twist, free Spanish Qurans.

``I think [ISNA] coming here says something about Muslims in this part of Florida, that we have grown to a point where we can support such a national organization,'' said Imam Shafayat Mohamed, who leads Darul Uloom mosque in Pembroke Pines and participated in a panel on interfaith relations.

``We're here to improve our image and join to make a positive contribution to society,'' said Asad Ba-Yunus, the conference chairman.

Ba-Yunus, a Miramar attorney, noted that Muslims in Florida have faced several hurdles in the past year including the abandoned Quran burning and fallout over a proposed Islamic center near ground zero in New York City.

Those topics were among many discussed Saturday at a panel on Muslims and the media that included Antonio Fins, editorial page editor for the South Florida Sun Sentinel, and Farooq Mitha, an occasional contributor to The Miami Herald's op-ed page.

``I think reactivism is one of the problems among Muslims,'' said Mitha.

``Something will happen in Kashmir or elsewhere and you will see Muslims protesting and writing letters,'' but the community will be ``back to normal a week later . . . We haven't done enough grass-roots organizing to get people engaged.''
:roll:

A few hours later, Americans Against Hate held a protest outside the convention center. The small Broward organization accused ISNA of having ties to terrorists and of supporting Hamas, a U.S. State Department-designated terrorist group.

ISNA officials have denied such allegations, and the organization has formally denounced terrorism.

State Rep. Ari Porth, D-Coral Springs, who was scheduled to speak on a panel titled ``How to Communicate with Public Officials'' withdrew shortly before the conference began after complaints from constituents. Porth said he would be ``happy to speak with Muslims'' at non-ISNA events.


http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/08/2 ... dreds.html

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 10 Jan 2011 21:53

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2 ... e-so-angry

Why Americans are so angry
From 'tea party' protesters to antiwar advocates, Americans on all sides of the political spectrum seem angry about something. But for all the tumult, the disaffection today is far less than in many periods in the past.

Not necessarily. Pollster Scott Rasmussen reports that 75 percent of Americans are "angry," but his question is framed solely around anger: "How angry are you at the current policies of the federal government?" Forty-five percent replied "very angry" and 30 percent said "somewhat angry."

But when Americans are given a choice of "angry," "dissatisfied," "satisfied," or "enthusiastic" about the way the federal government works, "dissatisfied" is the most popular choice at 48 percent, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll. An additional 19 percent chose "angry."
This net negative of 67 percent doesn't come close to the same poll's finding in October 1992, during the last time of political turmoil over fiscal policy. Then, 25 percent of Americans were angry, and 56 percent were dissatisfied, per ABC. A month later, third-party presidential candidate Ross Perot won 19 percent of the vote and cost President George H.W. Bush a second term.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 10 Jan 2011 22:24

A_Gupta wrote:Sigh, more of the same, when will they realize that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01261.html


These nuggets caught my attention:


The Obama administration also plans to intensify efforts to forge a regional peace despite frustration that Pakistani officials aren't doing enough to fight terrorist groups in the country's vast tribal areas, it said.



And what are the contours of such a regional peace Mr. Biden? And then the friendly "challenge" US poses to TSP


The vice president is expected to challenge the Pakistanis to articulate a long-term strategy for the region and specify what assistance they need to move successfully against Taliban safe heavens in areas border Afghanistan .



Anyone willing to bet what TSP's answer will be to this "long-term strategy for the region"? :-).

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby jrjrao » 10 Jan 2011 22:51

The feverish US efforts continue. To search for that magic button, which, when pressed, will roll back time to that era when the Pakis were a menace to India and India onlee.

The New Republic: US Must Stand By Pakistan
by BRUCE RIEDEL
This year, President Obama must focus like a laser on Pakistan. He has already promised to travel to the country in 2011. He will need to bring tangible benefits in the form of reduced tariffs on trade, helicopters to fight insurgents, and the promise of constancy and consistency in our strategic dialogue. He will need to draw red lines about ending the Pakistani army's ties to terrorism. And he will need to signal our determination to (subtly) help broker a rapprochement between India and Pakistan, with the aid of key players such as Saudi Arabia and China, to remove the rationale for extremism in Pakistan and undermine the Afghan Taliban's justification for jihad.

...peace, engagement and trade with India would strengthen the advocates of democracy by ending Pakistan's obsession with its rival. That is the big idea that the United States can promote — a free and democratic Pakistan at peace with itself and with its neighbors. It would be good for Pakistan, for India, and for America.

NPR link

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2011 22:54

Well if they cut and run the TSPA is toast/nan and will be taken by the more extreme jihadis. IN other words Af-Pak-> Pak-Af which will lad to Fak-Ap.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 10 Jan 2011 23:06

jrjrao wrote:The feverish US efforts continue. To search for that magic button, which, when pressed, will roll back time to that era when the Pakis were a menace to India and India onlee.

Do you think it is a one or two year project

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 10 Jan 2011 23:17

CRamS wrote:
The vice president is expected to challenge the Pakistanis to articulate a long-term strategy for the region and specify what assistance they need to move successfully against Taliban safe heavens in areas border Afghanistan .


Anyone willing to bet what TSP's answer will be to this "long-term strategy for the region"? :-).


guaranteed taliban safe havens. :evil:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 10 Jan 2011 23:21

ISNA is a front for islamists and has lots of KSA influence (iirc tarek writes about this in chasing the mirage about how they pushed for sharia to be recognized in Canada)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2011 23:22

CRamS wrote:Anyone willing to bet what TSP's answer will be to this "long-term strategy for the region"? :-).


The best strategy for the region is of course all Pakistanis are given U.S. Citizenship and they migrate to USA, and they leave the lands for the Yindoos!

They should use the Pakistanis' uncanny ability to formulate long-term strategies for a region to the benefit of America.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby jrjrao » 10 Jan 2011 23:56

Acharya wrote:Do you think it is a one or two year project

This can be a one minute project, and I bet some dork in the Foggy Bottom even now is studiously bunched up over an Excel spreadsheet, working out the pros and cons of this possible move.

After all what the Pakis want most is a visible word or action that suggests that the US is on their side in their eternal jeehad against the Hindoo India. If I were an underworked insect in the FBottom, hoping to advance fast, I would draw up a strategy that would call for Biden or others to issue a sharp statement or two, or rather any pinprick that would seem to cause discomfort to the Indians (topic can be "Cashmere" or a nuke deal for the Pakis or "Hindoo terrorists being equal-equal bombers of trains etc".).

Such a pinprick is all that stands between Biden being furiously hated rather than feted with rose petals far more numerous than even Mumtaz Qadri received in PakiSatan.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 Jan 2011 00:16

It is not unreasonable. Hopefully the Christian Islamic historical animosity can also be subject to a grand American strategy of conciliation and mutual accomodation. That is the only way out of the global war on terror. It will lead to a secure America.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Jan 2011 00:22

sanjay, They are working on it. But off topic for this thread.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 11 Jan 2011 15:41

jrjrao wrote:The feverish US efforts continue. To search for that magic button, which, when pressed, will roll back time to that era when the Pakis were a menace to India and India onlee.

The New Republic: US Must Stand By Pakistan
by BRUCE RIEDEL
...peace, engagement and trade with India would strengthen the advocates of democracy by ending Pakistan's obsession with its rival. That is the big idea that the United States can promote — a free and democratic Pakistan at peace with itself and with its neighbors. It would be good for Pakistan, for India, and for America.

NPR link


There is a misconception is west and in minds of some Indians too that somehow peace with India would strengthen the advocates of democracy in Pakistan. Or ending Pakistan's obsession with its rival will be solution to what pakistan has become. It is a belief which does not take into account, Pakistan origins and its reason for existence. Pakistan's entire ruling elite, whether they be military or non-military, has a hold on power because of the so called Indian threat. And asking the Pakistani elite to give up the so called Indian threat, is like asking a person to end the justification for his/her existence.

The mantra that peace with India would allow democracy to flourish implies that somehow democracy was suppressed due to Indian threats or actions. In the entire history of pakistan, every time that a democratic government has been overthrown, it has been purely due to domestic reasons. There was no such pressing Indian threat at any time a coup has occrred in Pakistan. In 1977, when zia overthrew Bhuttos rule, it was the lure of power which drove zia and not some mythical Indian threat. Even when Mush baby overthrew Nawaz, it was due to the fact that Nawaz wanted him dismissed after the Kargil Fiasco.
This mantra also ignores the fact that democracy in Pakistan has not yielded any benefits to India. History has shown that a democratic government in Pakistan was the cause of Taliban's Birth. It was a Pakistan woman PM, in the very late 1980s, which went to PoK and thundered about a 1000 year war to "liberate" Kashmir in 1989. It was again a democratic PM who authorized the Kargil Adventure. The List goes on and on and on.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Jan 2011 17:16

Fak-Ap indeed! So if the US "must" stand by Pak,by definition it must let down India.This asinine attitude of American diplomacy in trying to force an Indo-Pak rapproachment without even understanding the fundamentals of devily and chicanery that is the soul of Pak,is akin to the tale of the "blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there".Keep on searching oh great Mess-iah!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 11 Jan 2011 19:00

>>This can be a one minute project,

jrjr - welcome back :rotfl:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby jrjrao » 11 Jan 2011 19:18

Yeah, JEM. It is time again to provide more commentary and insight to them Paklurks and Amreeklurks out here.

BTW, good article from Chris Hitchens in the Slate. The Qadri Ungli has stuck in Unkil's musharraf like few other Paki misdeeds have, it seems.

"Reflections on Political Violence
When Mumtaz Qadri shot Pakistani politician Salman Taseer, he didn't even bother to offer an excuse."
http://www.slate.com/id/2280683/

Another article in the Slate:
"In Pakistan, the Shooter Is the Hero"
http://www.slate.com/id/2280700


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