Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Pratyush » 25 Jul 2010 18:20

SSridhar wrote:Demilitarization of Siachen
The president said, “Even though Indian expenditures in Siachen are far more than Pakistan’s, we propose that the matter should be resolved amicably through talks, so that the resources of the two countries can be spent on the welfare of their people.” As per his remarks, India spends $ 50 per day on one soldier in Siachen while Pakistan spends Rs 50.

Pakistan has a low logistical cost compared to India, since the latter has to ferry a lot of supplies by air while we are able to transport the bulk of our supplies by road {Of course, at altitudes of a few thousand feet, mules can be used over katcha roads}



If he is concerned about Siachin then he can pull back TSPA unilaterly as a gesture of good faith towards India. I am sure we will meet them half way :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jul 2010 18:26

The Wagah Experience of a Pakistani
Happy to report that we won the contest convincingly. I honestly do not draw the conclusion just because I sat on the west side of the LoC. Our men in dark grey out-shouted the enemy in every single drill call. They were taller, broader and altogether more impressive. So who cares if a comparison of some economic indicators remains unfavourable. The Indians can have their GDP, FDI and literacy rates. We have the bigger lungs, the stretchier limbs and more formidable heels. They have the IPL but we get to play our ‘home’ test matches at Lords’. We even trump their tennis queen Sania with our very own ace Shoaib.


Might have been made in sarcasm but one never knows.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Muppalla » 25 Jul 2010 18:35

Pratyush wrote:It has, at least in my social circle. As some were advocating a normalisation of relations and the whole 9 yards with TSP with me being the holdout. But the drama of the talks and the boorish behavior of the Pakistanies has brought them around to my view point. So it was a good thing that the talks ended the way they did.


It is the same story in most of the social circles. Our memories are short and we forget the dead and the ones who sacrificed for the nation too fast. When something happens we get worked up and as time passes we become Aman Ki Asha types. We may have to learn to keep the anger sustained while showing nice on the frontend.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Pratyush » 25 Jul 2010 18:52

Muppalla wrote:
It is the same story in most of the social circles. Our memories are short and we forget the dead and the ones who sacrificed for the nation too fast. When something happens we get worked up and as time passes we become Aman Ki Asha types. We may have to learn to keep the anger sustained while showing nice on the frontend.


+1 Those who compromise justice for peace deserve nether. We must have justice peace will follow latter.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jul 2010 19:08

JE Menon wrote:Still, it's not up to their high standards. They are clearly underperforming.

Must be pre-occupied with the Australia game. Let us hope they refocus on the job at hand. Soon.


Can have something to do with the weather - the monsoon or something. E.g., (in the US) one study found "... the relationship between temperature and crime became linear, so that the probability of a riot increased steadily with ambient temperature up into the mid-90s. It can be concluded that collective violence tends to increase with temperature at least up to about 85°F."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 25 Jul 2010 19:20

r_subramanian wrote:You can't have FTA with India without talking to us!
Folks, may I add a few lines here on Pakistan's economy?
There is a report in the Pakistani daily Business Recorder stating that the current trade volume between India and EU is U.S $80 billion and with the FTA being negotiated, EU and India are planning to reach a trade volume of U.S $200 billion in four years time.
EU India FTA.

But something else caught my eye. Immediately above the report there was another (quoted below) stating how Pakistan would be screwed should the FTA go ahead!
Pakistan voices concern over India-EU FTA
Pakistan has expressed serious concern over the proposed Free Trade Agreement (FTA) between India and the European Union (EU), which what it said, may affect 78.7 percent of Pak exports to the EU. According to the documents available with Business Recorder, the government has shown serious concern over the EU's on-going FTA negotiations particularly with India, which would affect Pakistan's market access to the EU.
...
Now, Pakistan is willing to consider undertaking deeper integration in FTA with the EU, which includes liberalisation in goods, services, investment, government procurement and intellectual property rights as per the EU's standards and requirements. However, the EU, in principal {in principle ?}, needs to agree to enter FTA dialogue with Pakistan.

link


This is the kind of news we should be discussing. Now I remember few moonths back pakis were begging (rather demanding) EU to give them FTA and the EU commissioner gave them a big jhapad. What pakis do not realize is trade is an activity that is a two way street. Pakis have absolutely no buying capacity to import anything from EU and paki exports do not add any value to EU so there is absolutely no incentive to get an FTA hammered out with an inconsequential entity. FTA with India means carrefour and other companies have an edge over walmart in Indian retail markets Makes India look at EU for defense contracts (Euro fighter, airbus & raphael) EU universities take a slice of Indian markets etc etc. In return India gets access to EU markets which enhances its own export potential. Plus the win win for both sides is that it cuts tallel than mountain friend to size a bit.

The best part of news is India really needs to get the textile ministry to crack the whip and re-invent the way we do business. For pakis their lifeline is textiles and this is what we need to hit and hit hard. I am not sure who is textile minister right now but since I dont know the name means the person is useless and inefficient. They need to get some one with fire in his/ her belly who can put the final nails in paki coffin especially towels and napkin exports which seem to be MVP of paki exports. This will diminish paki revenues and also its ability to create nusience also raises the cost for 3.5 to keep paki's afloat.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby satyam » 25 Jul 2010 19:38

^^^^^
Look at their audacity. Pakiz are 48th largest economy(nominal) and depend on IMF for their day to day trade. But they are demanding FTA with largest economy of the world.

FTA is to be negotiated not demanded as if it is their birth right.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 25 Jul 2010 19:39

SSridhar wrote:The Wagah Experience of a Pakistani
Happy to report that we won the contest convincingly. I honestly do not draw the conclusion just because I sat on the west side of the LoC. Our men in dark grey out-shouted the enemy in every single drill call. They were taller, broader and altogether more impressive. So who cares if a comparison of some economic indicators remains unfavourable. The Indians can have their GDP, FDI and literacy rates. We have the bigger lungs, the stretchier limbs and more formidable heels. They have the IPL but we get to play our ‘home’ test matches at Lords’. We even trump their tennis queen Sania with our very own ace Shoaib.


Might have been made in sarcasm but one never knows.


Read that article and does not seem there was any hint of sarcasm. The guy was genuely putting his heartfelt comments on paper. Just to add my 2 cents to this discussion. I am a big time supporter of women leading the parade not because paki rakait mard's will feel enraged but because our women are capable of handling these jangli cave men on their own. If pakis interpret this as cowardice on part of our men then be it. They are welcome to test the water with another operation grand slam or kargil.

The problem I see of some BRFites is that they are thinking more like pakis. In other words their hatered for the monster is turning them into a monster. Who cares what pakis think of us if we decide to abandon this stupid meaningless ceremony. Where in this world do they have similar ceremonies and how do they prove who is stronger. What if pakis have stronger lungs or bigger limbs how does that matter in war. Remember since invention of gun powder a 14 year old is as good as 24 year old (rather some times more dangerous because of recklessness, look at africa for reference). Does US have such ceremony with Mexico? Does Russsia have it with any Easter EU country? Does India have it with China? Does Japan have it with China? The answer is NO. It does not matter what pakis think or say to feel good we need to look at ourselves and do what is the best for us. If this ceremony does something good for us we should do it and do our best. If not we should put a pan chewing chowkidaar and completely abandon it. If pakis feel they can over power the chowkidaar and capture attari they are welcome to try it out.

Paki are sexist people who treat women like objects and by playing with their steriotypes we are actually insulting our brave service women who are defending our nations while we are enjoying AC and punching on our keyboards sitting in western countries.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jul 2010 20:03

Brad Goodman wrote:The best part of news is India really needs to get the textile ministry to crack the whip and re-invent the way we do business. For pakis their lifeline is textiles and this is what we need to hit and hit hard. I am not sure who is textile minister right now but since I dont know the name means the person is useless and inefficient. They need to get some one with fire in his/ her belly who can put the final nails in paki coffin especially towels and napkin exports which seem to be MVP of paki exports. This will diminish paki revenues and also its ability to create nusience also raises the cost for 3.5 to keep paki's afloat.


AFAIK, Pakistani exports include Basmati, Textiles, Sports Goods, Mangoes, and ... No I think that's it.

For the Indian Textile Industry I have only one advice, stop using thread that breaks easily. That alone would make revenues jump five fold. Then our industry can bulldoze Pakistan's. The poor poor poor water condition :(( will make sure that Pakistan's Basmati production would only be enough for Kiyani and his wife, and their cook (who steals it secretly).

In any case an FTA between India and EU could possibly destroy the export economy of Pakistan, because to a large extent, that what Pakistan exports, can also be exported by India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Hari Seldon » 25 Jul 2010 20:21

^^^ Re desi texitiles, a $10 bn export industry I'm told, the US something dept has listed Indian textiles as using child labor. What that means is desi tex exports to massa are down the tubes. For now. Nice leverage for EU to brandish the same threat, IMHO. Anycase, prc has gotten so far ahead of the rest of the emerging duniyas in tex expolts, and demand in the emerged tfta countries has started to decline now, maybe it won't be the end of the world after all. Still, it would pinch some millions of people depending directly on the industry, imho.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jul 2010 20:26

>>to a large extent, that what Pakistan exports, can also be exported by India.

Except for that export in which Pakisatan has a monopoly: IT

Someone should create an iPhone app called iTerror where every terror attack is linked to Pakistan, and the player gets points for guessing which country the next Pakistan-linked terror attack will come.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby chetak » 25 Jul 2010 21:18

RajeshA wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:The best part of news is India really needs to get the textile ministry to crack the whip and re-invent the way we do business. For pakis their lifeline is textiles and this is what we need to hit and hit hard. I am not sure who is textile minister right now but since I dont know the name means the person is useless and inefficient. They need to get some one with fire in his/ her belly who can put the final nails in paki coffin especially towels and napkin exports which seem to be MVP of paki exports. This will diminish paki revenues and also its ability to create nusience also raises the cost for 3.5 to keep paki's afloat.


AFAIK, Pakistani exports include Basmati, Textiles, Sports Goods, Mangoes, and ... No I think that's it.

For the Indian Textile Industry I have only one advice, stop using thread that breaks easily. That alone would make revenues jump five fold. Then our industry can bulldoze Pakistan's. The poor poor poor water condition :(( will make sure that Pakistan's Basmati production would only be enough for Kiyani and his wife, and their cook (who steals it secretly).

In any case an FTA between India and EU could possibly destroy the export economy of Pakistan, because to a large extent, that what Pakistan exports, can also be exported by India.


Yet, we continue to export cotton fibre to pakiland for them to process and add value. :evil:
Last edited by chetak on 25 Jul 2010 21:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jul 2010 21:21

Some self-piskology from chaighar, based on the just concluded Paki-Aussie cricket test:
The attendant frailties exposed during the match are immaterial to the majority of cricket-mad Pakistanis. The lack of commitment and self-belief; the absence of any sort of plan or an attacking approach; the insha’allah masha’allah subhanallah state of mind… kiss the ground as we bow to the heavens in gratitude to the only force we accept as relevant in any clash, confrontation, encounter or conflict.

So what? We’re Packies. We play (and follow) cricket the way we live our lives; with an unshakeable belief in the almighty and his ability (if inexplicable lack of willingness) to influence events in our favour. And an equally unshakeable lack of belief in our own ability to control or transform them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby surinder » 25 Jul 2010 21:29

OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jul 2010 21:46

surinder wrote:OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?


Sorry, the above is not a valid expectation. Small changes will have only small effects. Nevertheless, if the small change is the correct thing to do, it should be done.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Dilbu » 25 Jul 2010 21:54

surinder wrote:OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?

Why should it have anything to do with TSP? Why this obsession to beat the TFTAs at everything?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jul 2010 22:08

Here is my suggestion, for what it's worth:

1) Put a pot-bellied paan-chewing chowkidaar at the gates! No Ceremony!

2) Build a big entertainment cum amusement cum theme park on the Indian side of Wagah crossing. You can have multiplexes, malls, traditional markets, theaters, daily qawaalis, mujra, Urdu poetry competitions, Bollywood dance musicals, Army marching parades with bands, restaurants, restaurants and more restaurants, etc. etc. The lights are always on, 24/7.

3) Have Indian BSF women do their marches somewhere else, within the military theme park.

4) Have the pot-bellied paan-chewing chowkidaar be an attraction, a secret tip, in the Lonely Planet, Marco Polo travel guides. Every gori should go and get herself photographed with him!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby chetak » 25 Jul 2010 22:11

Dilbu wrote:
surinder wrote:OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?

Why should it have anything to do with TSP? Why this obsession to beat the TFTAs at everything?


The way to fix these buggers is to just ignore them.

Look at how they reacted as a nation to the IPL rejection. For us it was just a sound business decision.

As a country we should learn from their nationally anguished IPL reactions and kick them exactly where it hurts.

They have been fighting to stay in the limelight for the past sixty odd years.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Raghavendra » 25 Jul 2010 22:46

'Talking to Pakistan is a fool's errand' http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/intervi ... nd_1414156

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shiv » 25 Jul 2010 22:50

surinder wrote:OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?


Saar - it makes me feel better

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby archan » 25 Jul 2010 22:59

surinder wrote:OK it is nice to see women BSF officers marching in Attari, but what impact does it have on TSP? WOuld TSP wilt? Would they stop atankavaad just because women are in the ceremony? Would they give up Kashmir just because women are in the ceremony?

What concrete change will happen in TSP, or in its dealings with India due to the gender of the marchers?

Yaar... how long will we discuss the ceremony..! goes to show even if some of us say we don't care much about it, quite a few do! :rotfl:
Quite a few among us seem to have this H&D business with packees... lets get over it. We've beaten them where it mattered (and cricket does not count) and they are reduced to celebrating military defeats as some kind of victories. These little ceremonies sheremonies to pat one's ego are just worthless. The flag must be lowered with respect, thats it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby shravan » 25 Jul 2010 23:19

18 killed in two drone strikes in Waziristan

MIRANSHAH: Two separate drone strikes in one day in North and South Waziristan have killed 18 people, Geo News reported on Sunday.

----

Is this the first time they have attacked North & South on the same day ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby jamwal » 25 Jul 2010 23:37

archan wrote:Yaar... how long will we discuss the ceremony..! goes to show even if some of us say we don't care much about it, quite a few do! :rotfl:
Quite a few among us seem to have this H&D business with packees... lets get over it. We've beaten them where it mattered (and cricket does not count) and they are reduced to celebrating military defeats as some kind of victories. These little ceremonies sheremonies to pat one's ego are just worthless. The flag must be lowered with respect, thats it.


True. BTW, how many of you SDREs are ready to take up that chowkidaar job ? You know the requirements. :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Ameet » 25 Jul 2010 23:44

Brad Goodman wrote:The best part of news is India really needs to get the textile ministry to crack the whip and re-invent the way we do business. For pakis their lifeline is textiles and this is what we need to hit and hit hard. I am not sure who is textile minister right now but since I dont know the name means the person is useless and inefficient. They need to get some one with fire in his/ her belly who can put the final nails in paki coffin especially towels and napkin exports which seem to be MVP of paki exports. This will diminish paki revenues and also its ability to create nusience also raises the cost for 3.5 to keep paki's afloat.


'India-EU FTA to garner extra garment exports worth extra $3 bn'
http://smetimes.tradeindia.com/smetimes ... 61737.html

The Apparel Export Promotion Council (AEPC) Monday said that the India-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA), which is expected to be concluded by the end of the current fiscal, is lilkely to help the country's apparel exporters to garner extra orders worth USD 3 billion from the 27-nation block. The India-EU FTA will also help generate 2.5 million jobs in the textiles and garments export sectors.

The apparel exporters have an ambitious target of USD15 billion in exports by year 2011-12, even though last year's exports at USD 10.64 billion were slightly down by 2.64%. Each USD 1 billion in exports requires an input of 36 million man-hours of work and the attendant demand for raw materials, accessories and logisitics creates vibrancy in the entire ecosystem.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby CRamS » 26 Jul 2010 00:07

TSP is really upping the ante; they are desparate to wash away Mumbai with shrill, brazen demands on Kashmir: Impossible to continue talks with India if....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Prem » 26 Jul 2010 00:19

Pakistan's Woes Compounded by Severe Water Crisis
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/07 ... .html?_r=1

ISLAMABAD (AP) -- Besides grappling with insurgents, suicide bombers and deep poverty, Pakistan is facing a severe crisis as a ballooning population and inefficient farming combine to reduce the availability of water. Up to a third of Pakistan's 175 million people lack safe drinking water and nearly 630 children die each day from diarrhea, according to a study done last year by the U.S.-based Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Water availability per person in Pakistan has fallen from about 5,000 cubic meters (175,000 cubic feet) in 1947, when the country was founded, to around 1,000 cubic meters (35,000 cubic feet) today. Most of the drop is the result of a population that has more than quadrupled since independence, but many scientists predict global warming could have a significant impact by shrinking the glaciers that feed Pakistan's rivers. Experts also point to inefficient irrigation methods in Pakistan as a key factor.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Prem » 26 Jul 2010 00:24

Clinton adds to curious history of mango diplomacy http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2012442994_apaspakistanmangodiplomacy.html?syndication=
When U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton offered Pakistan help last week in exporting mangoes to the U.S. in a bid to dampen anti-American sentiment, it marked the latest chapter in the fruit's curious history of diplomacy and intrigue.
Clinton's offer came three years after the Bush administration opened up the U.S. market to Indian mangoes in exchange for allowing Harley-Davidson to sell its famed motorcycles in India - a deal that generated goodwill as the two countries finalized a civilian nuclear agreement.
Washington's mango-powered diplomacy this time around is part of a broader $7.5 billion aid effort that is meant to improve the image of the U.S. in Pakistan, a move officials hope will provide the Pakistani government with greater room to cooperate on turning around the war in Afghanistan."I have personally vouched for Pakistani mangoes, which are delicious, and I'm looking forward to seeing Americans be able to enjoy those in the coming months," Clinton said during her visit to Islamabad last week.The prominence of mangoes in South Asian diplomacy should come as no surprise since scientists believe the sweet and fleshy orange fruit originated in the region before Buddhist monks and Persian traders introduced the plant to other areas of the world.
Officials from both countries have exchanged crates of mangoes over the years in an attempt to soften tensions between the nuclear-armed rivals that have fought three wars since the partition of British India created the two nations a little over 60 years ago.Former Pakistani President Zia ul-Haq may have begun the tradition when he swapped mangoes in the early 1980s with the Indian prime minister at the time, Indira Gandhi. The exchange took place several years before ul-Haq was killed in a plane crash that conspiracy theorists blame on a crate of mangoes placed on board moments before takeoff that was supposedly sprayed with a poisonous gas that killed the pilots and other passengers.
Last edited by archan on 26 Jul 2010 00:58, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: relax, why hurry? fixed URL, put quotes.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Prem » 26 Jul 2010 00:37

Much of Pakistan’s capital city looks like a rich Los Angeles suburb. Shiny sport utility vehicles purr down gated driveways. Elegant multistory homes are tended by servants. Laundry is never hung out to dry.
…Very few of these households pay income tax. That is mostly because the politicians who make the rules are also the country’s richest citizens, and are skilled at finding ways to exempt themselves.Though the authorities have tried to expand the net in recent years, taxing profits from the stock market and real estate, entire swaths of the economy, like agriculture, a major moneymaker for the elite, remain untaxedWhile Pakistan’s income from taxes last year was the lowest in the country’s history, according to Zafar ul-Majeed, a senior official in the Federal Board of Revenue, the assets of current members of Parliament nearly doubled from those of members of the previous Parliament, the institute study found. Out of more than 170 million Pakistanis, fewer than 2 percent pay income tax, making Pakistan’s revenue from taxes among the lowest in the world, a notch below Sierra Leone’s as a ratio of tax to gross domestic product.

([b]Yet, 3.5 Lovers keep puming them /b] )
http://thepoorman.net/2010/07/19/in-pak ... ching-110/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Sanjay M » 26 Jul 2010 00:38

I think that TSP's stronger rhetoric over talks and the recent protests in the Valley are correlated.

Both are part of TSP's plan to turn up the pressure on India, ahead of any renewed conflict over Afghanistan. Like I said, they need at a minimum to light J&K on fire in order to get the odds tilted less against them than they already are. They've always avoided attacking the rest of India in the past, not out of any chivalry, but out of a desire to avoid getting enough Indians riled against them that we'd really go to war. But now they have more groups like the Naxalites for plausible deniability, so they could always get these to stage 26/11 type attacks, to avoid any repercussions on the Indo-Pak border. But it would take a lot more intensive training to step the Naxalites up from rural attacks to 26/11 type ones. It's not clear that the Naxalites would be pyschologically prepared to undertake such an increase in hostilities.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Prem » 26 Jul 2010 00:44

General Kayani makes Pakistan’s strategic decisions – not the civilian government
http://www.examiner.com/x-30980-Afghani ... government

As the head of the ISI Kayani had intimate knowledge of Pakistan’s “proxy” anti-Indian assets, which were terrorist organizations the ISI developed over the years to fight against India. Now some of those assets, such as the Haqqani Network, are fighting American and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), who many believe were behind the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, is another group closely associated with the ISI who are currently believed to be as dangerous as Al Qaeda and the Taliban by U.S. officials, a judgment voiced this week by U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke.
U.S. officials believe Kayani has not done enough to root out the Haqqani Network from their base in North Waziristan. The General has said his military was too tied up fighting the Pakistani Taliban in South Waziristan and other agencies. Within the last month or so it has been rumored that Kayani even tried to convince Afghan President Hamid Karzai to strike a power-sharing arrangement with the Haqqanis.The truth is, Kayani has always prioritized Pakistan’s struggle against India over anything else, which he has been very transparent about. Earlier this year he made it very clear to a group of foreign journalists that Pakistan’s chief enemy was a “richer, bigger India”. ( But Kangress, MMS,WKK know best) Kayani will not allow anything to distract Pakistan from its mission against India.However, not only has this detracted from the war against the Afghan Taliban but Kayani has not paid very close attention to Al Qaeda as well. According to B. Raman on his strategic analysis blog, Al Qaeda has enjoyed more security under Kayani than they did under Musharaff

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby archan » 26 Jul 2010 00:59

really only 2% pakis pay taxes? wow! no wonder they beg from any and everyone in the world.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby asprinzl » 26 Jul 2010 01:10

I think we should be very happy that Satan's tax revenue is among the lowest in the world and should pray that it get lower still. It means the Rapes are siphoning a huge amt of their income to other purposes like financing their own private army, building mansions and parking in ofshore banks. Low tax means less money for military gadgets. Less tax means widening gap between mango abduls and Rapes. Less tax means more instability. Less tax means more bulbs going off on Fridays after prayers. Less tax means more warfare between private armies. This is good. We should not pour scorn at the Rapes.....infact we should encourage them to be more Rapish than the Rapes they are now.
Avram

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby vijayk » 26 Jul 2010 03:47

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-mull ... 57928.html
General Kayani's "Silent Coup" in Pakistan: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Pakistan's General Kayani, the man our leaders in Washington fawn over and who sits atop the intensely destabilizing "Strategic Depth" networks in Afghanistan, has just been handed a three year extension of his term as Chief of Army Staff by Prime Minister Gilani:


The short of it is that Kayani's extension is bad news for us, due to his cozy relationship with militants and terrorist organizations, as well as his undermining of the democratically elected civilian government. But the details are important, especially as they could mean the difference between uncontrolled escalation and our planned military withdrawal from Afghanistan.


If you missed that, let me spell it out for you: Kayani's extension is good for Al-Qa'eda. Yes, that Al-Qa'eda. The terrorist guys.

Then there's all that other stuff about the Afghan Taliban - Mullah Omar's Quetta Shura in Balochistan, as well as the Haqqani Network, who're responsible for the vast majority of terrorist and insurgent attacks on our US troops in Afghanistan.


Damn, we really love this guy. What are we thinking? Whatever it is we like about him - his style, his centered demeanor, his subtle hand in politics - General Kayani is still just another military dictator, another crook in a long line of corrupt, tyrannical, warmongering thugs. He is not our ally, not our friend, and his extension, now a full fledged dictatorship complete with a compliant, ruling political party, is just plain bad news for the United States.

The US must immediately end all military aid to Pakistan, and should pursue sanctions against the ruling elites in the PPP until such time as their government can prove its legitimacy by way of free and fair democratic elections. Barring such extreme measures, the US must engage exclusively with Pakistan's civilian government, while working toward greater inclusion of opposition parties like the PML-N (who are presently too close to radical Saudi Arabia, and could stand to be moderated with more international influence).


More importantly, the US must end its war in Afghanistan. Not only is not in our interests to fight a civil war in Afghanistan, but it is even less in our interests to have our US troops used as pieces in Kayani's personal chessboard. Our troops fight and die for our national defense, not for Kayani's insane militarist objectives against India. Pakistan is catastrophically unstable, and US military leaders are moving to escalate our involvement. Further war in the region will prove to be disastrous for the US.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby Vivek_A » 26 Jul 2010 04:08

Afghanistan war logs: Clandestine aid for Taliban bears Pakistan's fingerprints

Pakistan's ISI spy agency accused of poison beer plot against troops and scheme to kill Hamid Karzai


A stream of US military intelligence reports accuse Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency of arming, training and financing the Taliban insurgency since 2004, the war logs reveal, bringing fresh scrutiny on one of the war's most contentious issues.

At least 180 files contain allegations of dirty tricks by the powerful agency with accounts of undercover agents training suicide bombers, bundles of money slipping across the border and covert support for a range of sensational plots including the assassination of President Hamid Karzai, attacks on Nato warplanes and even poisoning western troops' beer supply.

They also link the ISI to some of the war's most notorious commanders. In April 2007 for instance, the ISI is alleged to have sent 1,000 motorbikes to the warlord Jalaluddin Haqqani for suicide attacks in Khost and Logar provinces.

But for all their eye-popping details, the intelligence files, which are mostly collated by junior officers relying on informants and Afghan officials, fail to provide a convincing smoking gun for ISI complicity. Most of the reports are vague, filled with incongruent detail, or crudely fabricated. The same characters – famous Taliban commanders, well-known ISI officials – and scenarios repeatedly pop up. And few of the events predicted in the reports subsequently occurred.

A retired senior American officer said ground-level reports were considered to be a mixture of "rumours, bullshit and second-hand information" and were weeded out as they passed up the chain of command. "As someone who had to sift through thousands of these reports, I can say that the chances of finding any real information are pretty slim," said the officer, who has years of experience in the region.

If anything, the jumble of allegations highlights the perils of collecting accurate intelligence in a complex arena where all sides have an interest in distorting the truth.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby jrjrao » 26 Jul 2010 04:09

Has this been posted or discussed here previously?

Seems like the NYTimes, The Guardian and Der Spiegal are dropping this nuclear bomb of a report on Pakisatani perfidy.

Pakistan Aids Insurgency in Afghanistan, Reports Assert
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world ... .html?_r=1
Some of the findings in The Times’s analysis of the trove of documents released Sunday include:

* Americans fighting the war in Afghanistan have long harbored strong suspicions that Pakistan’s military spy service guides the Afghan insurgency that fights American troops, even as Pakistan receives more than $1 billion in U.S. aid.

* The Taliban has used portable, heat-seeking missiles against Western aircraft — weapons that helped defeat the Soviet occupation in the 1980s.

Apparently, this report has caused such big takleef to the WHouse today that it has taken the trouble to release this long statement on a Sunday evening:
The White House released the following statement, condemning the disclosure of classified information:

Statement of National Security Adviser Gen. James Jones on Wikileaks

The United States strongly condemns the disclosure of classified information by individuals and organizations which could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk, and threaten our national security....

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/ ... gs/#t18h7m

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Jul 2010 04:28

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/worl ... 8AB77A6582

Summary Polish intelligence warns in this report of an attack against the Indian Embassy in Kabul a week before a suicide bomber drove his car through the main gate of the embassy building during the morning rush hour. The assault unfolded differently than outlined in the report. Forty-one people were killed, including four Indian officials and many Afghan civilians waiting outside the embassy for visas. The deputy director of the C.I.A., Stephen R. Kappes, flew to Islamabad, Pakistan, after the assault on the Indian Embassy to confront the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence with evidence that it had helped organize the attack.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Jul 2010 04:38

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/worl ... 82DB6FBB4E

Summary This report suggests that a member of the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence is in charge of suicide bombing operations in Kabul, and that he is a graduate of the Haqqania madrasa near Peshawar. The report outlines the general process of preparing a suicide attack.


What Wikileaks does is make the Americans look as weak and impotent as the Indians. Why a couple of ISI honchos houses do not have mysterious gas cylinder explosions or some such, with these guys killing Americans? At least India is not paying baksheesh to these villains (or is it? Can't be anything on the Kerry-Lugar scale.)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby jaibhim » 26 Jul 2010 04:39

What a pleasant surprise when I tried to follow up taking a break from the writing, on what was new on the India bashing front after reading Deans latest hallucinating orientalist whip of India at the telegraph? Nothing extraordinarily new for people from that part of the world however. The guardian, home of the just and defender of human rights a haven for the jhollawallahs and Arundhati is surprisingly sympathetic to the land of the pure, going to great lengths to disclaim its role and instead turning on soldiers who fight and calling them as killers of civllians. :rotfl: Different yardsticks for different people! It also carried report claiming that India was one of the countries that listened in! Nobody cared when India cried the some of the same things years back.
Last edited by jaibhim on 26 Jul 2010 04:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby vijayk » 26 Jul 2010 04:43

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266293
The Boiled Frog
The slow erosion of plurality, secularism and shrinking political and economic space for the disfranchised has created the situation that exists in Pakistan today. Kashmir seems to be slowly but surely headed the same way

One doesn't need to be a South Asia specialist to be concerned about the alarming situation in Pakistan. Its economy is in doldrums. The political situation continues to be grim: While a ballot box produced a civilian government, the country nevertheless continues to be run by military generals, who not only control its internal security and defence, but also its foreign policy, strategic assets, and a large part of its economy. The law and order situation is growing worse by the day - frequent sectarian violence has now reached the heartland of the nation and appears to be a precursor to a nascent civil war. The country is being drawn into a somewhat reluctant war (at America's urging) against Islamic zealots who are trying to enforce Nizam-e-Mustafa region-by-region and attempting to steal its nuclear weapons.


When Hindu and Sikh populations started diminishing rapidly, no one seemed to care. When Pakistan repudiated Jinnah’s vision and started officially classifying some Muslim faithful as heretics, warning bells should have gone off. When the Pakistani Army started indoctrinating soldiers as Islamic warriors, it conveyed a message that was overlooked. When “blasphemy laws” were enacted, it generated no rage among the elite (and so-called secular) majority. When people started battling each other in streets of major western cities in Pakistan, and names likes Sipah-e-Sahaba and Tehrik-e-Jafria were still relatively unknown, most sectarian violence in Pakistan was brushed off by local civil society as mischief created by “paid Indian agents”. And finally, when Kashmiri militants were trained and dispatched to create mayhem and unleash violence on the Indian side of Kashmir, not only was that mission deemed as a “sacred duty” but many willing Pakistani civilians, along with its security forces, fully supported the jihad against India.


Today, the violence that was engineered to bring death and destruction elsewhere has come home. Pakistan literally is being torn apart by a civil war that is pitting Sunnis against Shias, Islamists against Sufis, and the army against radical Islamists fighting to enforce Nizam-e-Mustafa. Given that Western generals and politicians are micro-managing Pakistan’s ruling elite with their own agenda and objectives, Pakistan's future is more dependent than ever on foreign authority and finances. It is a sad picture.


Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa, a prominent analyst and visiting scholar from Pakistan, recently gave a talk at Henry L. Stimson Center in Washington, one of the leading think tanks dealing with South Asian matters, which highlighted some of the above. “It is too late for Pakistan to turn back from the path that it has embarked on," she said. "The nation’s political and strategic culture is hostage to three As – Army, Allah and America. The country that Pakistan was envisaged to be at the time of its creation by its founder does not exist anymore, nor can we go back.


Her observations about the behaviour of Pakistani intellectuals and secular civil society, who failed to take notice of slow changes in the social and religious landscape around them, reminded me of the classical tale about boiling a frog in a pot. If a frog is thrown in a pot of boiling water, it will invariably jump out of the pot and try to save itself. But if the same frog is thrown in a pot of cold water that is heated very gradually, the frog does not realize it is being cooked, and sadly by the time the realisation dawns, it is too late to jump out because of its ebbing strength.



[B]Is Kashmir getting “cooked” slowly without anyone realizing it? Or directly put: Do Kashmiri intellectuals realize how rapidly social and religious landscape is deteriorating around them to the point that Kashmir valley is slowly turning into a mini-Pakistan?[B]


She conducted a poll among students in the top 10 elite universities of Pakistan. These students, mostly belonging to the ruling elite (wealthy feudal families or senior military officers with mostly secular upbringing and life style), will eventually define the future of the nation. Surprisingly, the poll results indicated that these students, coming mostly from liberal backgrounds, valued their pan-Islamic identity as more important than their national or even family identity, and while a majority of respondents agreed that “al-Qaeda is a terrorist organization,” a resounding majority also agreed with the Pakistan government’s decision to strip “Ahmadis” of their Muslim identity, and most respondents (potential future leaders) viewed only Sunnis as true Muslims.


It is easy to brush off any inference that Kashmir is going to turn into another Pakistan. In fact, Kashmiris would rather not be associated with Pakistan, as determined by the opinion poll conducted by the Chatham House in 2009 on both sides of the Line of Control (LoC), and released in May 2010. On the Indian side of Kashmir, only 2% opted to join Pakistan (28% opted to join India, whereas 43% opted for independence), but the reality is reflected in the hold that Islamists have over Kashmiri society today. Many will argue that Kashmir's real problem is a public desire for "azadi", but a truly independence-seeking public would be inclusive and bring all constituencies and diverse interests on board. That is not so in Kashmir where the anti-India liberation movement is stridently radical and fundamentalist in its outlook and appeal. Indeed, harvesting religious sentiments is the "low hanging fruit" that even so called pro-India political parties in Kashmir find convenient to pluck, reinforcing a subtle agenda to capitalize on the narrative that is increasingly strident and pan-Islamic in its undertones.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 26 Jul 2010 05:06

Nobody cared when India cried the some of the same things years back.

I am sure there is donkey somewhere in the annals of panchtantra with an apposite experience.

Added later:
Well I see the allusion to a boiled frog, it is a start.


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